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  1. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    And it's very likely that the people they convinced to put money towards building the machine like your friends, are good people with good intentions, but they've been misled. It's a shame.
     
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  2. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    As if there hasn't been a lot of time, energy and expertise thrown at it already? I heard a recent interview with Steven Greer of the Disclosure Project and he said they had spent quite a lot of money financing such efforts- in the range of tens of thousands. You might want to look up what "debunking" actually means. It's not a negative thing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Graham2001

    Graham2001 Active Member

    It is not just 'healers' or perpetual motion/overunity types who resort to "it won't work if you don;t believe in it" claims, it seems to be a general principle, this post on the "Dealing with Creationism in Astronomy" blog discusses the phenomenon.

    http://dealingwithcreationisminastronomy.blogspot.com.au/2014/06/pseudoscience-and-world-view.html
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Graham2001

    Graham2001 Active Member

    It looks like Hopegirl et al are still at it and of course they still need lots of money from We The People:

    http://www.donotlink.com/c28m
     
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    So basically nobody has ever really shown it to work.

    The "group of engineers" she refers to are the "World Improvement Through Ministries" "Enlightened Technology", who will show you a "working" model for $200,000 per person.
    http://www.witts.ws/
    http://www.enlightenedtechnology.org/?page_id=1241
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    "Everyone who has seen our demos has been thoroughly convinced". OK.. who are those people?
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  7. Graham2001

    Graham2001 Active Member

    Oh I forgot, a lot of that money is going to be used to relocate 'Free the World' to Morocco. You do have to wonder how much of what she(?) writes is real or just guff designed to impress the credulous.

    I'm reminded of a 1990s 'ethical investment' setup (Basically a Ponzi scam.) whose promoters fell for their own lies. At the last meeting they promised investors they would be 'Bigger than Coca Cola and better for you than Coca Cola' if it took them 100 years. About a month or so later it collapsed with the investors owed hundreds of thousands of dollars.
     
  8. Efftup

    Efftup Senior Member

    My favourite line is "Please note: Minimum suggested donation amounts are not negotiable." so the suggested DONATION is basically a fixed price. and you have to have had 3 Skype consultations first.
     
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  9. Graham2001

    Graham2001 Active Member

    What has to be rememebered is that there are two different groups peddling these things, you have on the one hand World Improvement Through Ministries about which I cannot get a good handle on. Free The World is much easier to read, in that it seems to be a quasi-messianic grouping inspired by the conspiracy film "Thrive", some of the 'other' projects they have announced include freeing 'the people' from the water supply and super-dooper encryption projects. The real question is, do we have scammers or simply people who've drunk the kool-aid and thanks to the internet are able to metastazise their zealotry to receptive audiences worldwide, that is of course if their claims about membership can be believed.

    Last little thing, how many times have Free The World claimed to be on the verge of powering the generator from it's own output.
     
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  10. Graham2001

    Graham2001 Active Member

    Latest blog post by "Free the World" on their latest propaganda efforts funded by 'We The People' through the magic of crowdsourcing:

    http://www.donotlink.com/chyi

    That's right, they have their own YouTube 'TV Show'...
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2014
  11. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    I have an idea for the financing.
    These guys just build one, sell the power to the local power company and thence self finance
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Efftup

    Efftup Senior Member

    you mean they don't HAVE to charge $200,000 PER PERSON for a demo?

    This is the biggest most obvious scam ever. It DOES work, honest but to see it you will have to put up so much cash that if you can't afford to see it. But trust, honest it does work. keep having Skype consultations to try and get YOURS working though.
     
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  13. Graham2001

    Graham2001 Active Member

    That's the old way of doing things, it's much more profitable to work people up with social media based hype and then ask them to donate via the 'magic of crowdsourcing' to fund 'further development', 'relocation of headquarters' etc etc all the while dolling out teasers that 'energy freedom' is just around the corner.

    And of course the original plan to power a well in Morocco as a demonstration, that just gets submerged in the hype... anyone heard anything more about that project?
     
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  14. jaydeehess

    jaydeehess Senior Member

    Its really no different than telling people to give all their money to you and when the comet gets close enough we will all go and join 'the masters'. For some truly odd, but apparently very human reason, people do it!
     
  15. Gundersen

    Gundersen Active Member

    I also think there is a psychological aspect of it. The more people have invested in it, the less prone they will be to admitting they were cheated. These people are not only economically invested in the project, but emotionally. They have probably spend hours arguing with family, friends, colleagues, neighbors, etc., claiming the machine does work. After all this, the mind simply can't accept the fact that it was mistaken. The same when investors do the "when in trouble, go double", they are so invested in an idea that the mind can't afford to back down and admit defeat.

    OT., but probably the same reason why CT believers in general rarely back down from a claim in whole, only parts of it.
     
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  16. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    I think you're absolutely right.

    What's so damned frustrating from the logical side of this,
    is how the hell do people get to a place where they believe so strongly in something that's
    never really been demonstrated (never mind violating the laws of physics)?
    That's the part I can never wrap my head around. We must just not be wired the same.
     
  17. Gundersen

    Gundersen Active Member

    I think that's exactly the point, it's a matter of how we are wired.

    Imagine some claim that they have proof that science in general is debunked. That the tools of science and logic behind it is an idea invented which has no basis in reality. Nothing more than a philosophy of life. Would we accept that claim? or would we simply continue in our pre-determined conception of the world and demand scientific proof to support that science is invalid? I know it's far-fetched, but that the comparison is valid.
     
  18. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    Yeah, on a rational level I'm aware of a lot of research (much has been published in the last decade about Republicans
    and Democrats simply being wired differently, esp. with regard to fear and perceived threats...fascinating stuff)

    but on a more personal, visceral level I just...can't...relate. :(

    I like your example re. "proof that science in general is debunked."
    Yes, if it gets in your head that you're one of the special few who understands that massive secret...
    man, anarchy could really run wild in your head. :eek:

    Okay...I gotta admit, for a "Teacher's Pet," you're actually posting some pretty good stuff, G.


    ETA: I can't explain it...but I think I've watched that video in the OP maybe
    6 or 8 times since I first saw it. Something about it mesmerizes me.
    These people seem so damned happy...and so sure that they've just accomplished
    something genuinely meaningful. And then you look at the cynical business
    model (expensive Skype "help"...unbelievable $200k tours, etc.) of the
    peddlers of this fantasy and it just breaks your heart. Part of me wants to know
    more about the guy in the 'Brooklyn' shirt...part of me is afraid to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2014
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  19. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    And I think their feeling is also genuine. Compare it to this reaction from members of the People's Temple when they received some validation from a visiting congressman:

    Skip to 1:14, there's a short comment, and then an extended reaction from the crowd.


    I don't think the QEG folk are really anywhere near this state. It's rather an extreme example, as 24 hours later the people in the above video were nearly all dead, including the congressman. However it a prime example of groupthink, a desire for validation, and how the simple joy of feeling you are part of something wonderful can hold you far away from reason.
     
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  20. Gundersen

    Gundersen Active Member

    That's exactly what I do as a "Teacher's Pet", constantly seeking validation :oops:
     
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  21. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    Even thats not new, isn't crowd sourcing a modern form of share buying into an idea?

    Incidentally I've just been reading up on the South Sea Bubble...
    http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofEngland/south-sea-bubble/
    The result of the bubble was the near bankruptcy of the entire British Empire.

    Ok fiscal laws were a lot different back then, and a South Sea type scheme wouldn't really work today, but similar bubbles still happen. Just think of the UK railway mania in the 1840's, or more recently the whole dot com debacle.

    I think things like QEG's, solid holographic projectors and the like are the 'square cannonball' end of a growing home tech and gadget 'bubble'. (as to whether or not that bubble will burst is yet to be seen)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
  22. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    • Informative Informative x 2
  23. David Coulter

    David Coulter Active Member

    The basis of the over-unity crowd is a misunderstanding of reactive power which is imaginary in mathematical/phase space terms and ability to do work. Active and reactive power are not additive, they only appear to be when view as scalars rather than complex(mathematically) vectors. The happy faces in the OP video (which I agree has some creepy attraction) are those of people that only see the scalar magnitude of active and reactive power. I have no doubt that some of these people honestly believe that EE's have missed something, even though the EE's haven't - they just view the world as complex numbers rather than scalar magnitudes. The man in the Moroccan video is simply trying to drive a circuit toward the 100% reactive power singularity, which on the real line will appear to approach infinity; but can do no work.

    At the end of the day the believers are drinking-the-cool-aid, but probably didn't study enough math to know what the cool-aid contains, even if it is explained in a wiki:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power
     
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  24. kokomoJ0

    kokomoJ0 New Member

    How very true.

    Bang on!

    I have offered to validate peoples toys for them (after trying to explain its not doing what they think its doing) provided they are willing to either bring their toy here or pay my travel expenses and equipment shipping costs both ways and to date not one has been confident enough in their device to take me up on it. Removing the j operator is as simple as converting to dc. That said.......despite the fact that overunity in the context understood by most project builders cannot exist it does not mean that their goal of free power is not attainable. Everyone knows about solar, then there is ponds fleischmanns and tesla. That said I have yet to see any one create device sufficient to prove or disprove tesla, however from my review it should work and it is not an overunity device as so many people believe.
     
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  25. organicfarmer

    organicfarmer New Member

    This thread is confusing. Two organizations are being mixed up. WITTS and FTW. Witts claims to have the invention. Fix the World does not. There are so many people all over the world trying too! in fact one can now buy these coils professionally made to specs. FTW has released plans to build, WITTS wants you to join the church, prove your character, then pay 200,000 to get one. My final email from WITTS after asking for some help was pretty much I am hell bound without be willing to tithe to them.

    I am a disabled farmer (immediately preceding this venture, a commercial ceiling contractor), sinking because my energy bills for elec run around 11,000/year. I built this farm from scratch beginning in 1998 on seriously overgrown creekfront land. We support and garner from help from the 'recovery' community and take in folks that cannot make it in traditional treatment options. We do this for free, or at best case, trading room and board for labor. Some who come run negative in the energy department as you might imagine. No one here makes more than an existence at the level of existing as one would on Social Security checks. I can identify wholeheartedly with the term "Strangely Insane".

    I am seriously obsessed with making my own electricity. College dropout, EE major. Wood gas, Solar concentrating collectors and steam, Hydrogen, and QEG are all considerations. I, when I could still work, was once a project manager for a 3.5 million solar hot water heating project on public housing for the state of Hawaii 1984-5. I also have done installations for the Marine corp, FAA, and numerous other commercial and residential systems.

    As I type, I can say I asked James Robitaille (FTW) for a scholarship into his class and he readily accepted me. I resonate with his project and will help him in any way I can because I am accustomed to finding spiritual answers for physical problems. There is energy in Spirit most know nothing about but accept. This might be very much the same. An open mind is critical. I am in contact with him weekly. His motive is pure is what I believe. He is working to find out the remaining parts of the yet unknown design.

    No one I have talked to in the org has gotten anywhere with trying to get info from WITTS.. they told me I was going to suffer for refusing to tithe to them and pretty much damned me to hell.. please don't confuse the two.. FTW is not like witts. Nor is money their goal. Looks to me like James R and family are living pretty darn frugal to me, and when I asked him why he decided to move to Morocco.... I got a real answer. One I certainly resonate with. To helpful to those who need it the most and deal with the least amount of red tape. As an organic farmer.. I have resigned myself from the red tape society after the Jenson fiasco. I gave up all my wholesale customers and plant 6 acres instead of 25. My farm is more or less and old fashioned truck farm, growing a full range of vegetables and small fruits in Asheville, NC. I believe James and I are very much alike. He told me he quit his job over a year ago to work on this project full time. He appears to want to work with anyone who also has that goal. I totally understand why one would seek seclusion from doubters at this stage of development.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 29, 2015
  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    But what is it exactly that you think FTW has? Why exactly can't they plug the output into the input and have it run forever?

    Good intentions are great, resonating with people is great. But what's actually going on here? Plans for an impressive looking transformer that inefficiently lights some bulbs when you plug it into the wall. That's it. That's all they have.

    You can't push past the laws of physics simply with good intentions. The QEG does not work.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    I don't think that the WITTS v. FTW thing is a big deal to most here...
    it might even count as a bit of a red herring,
    re. the fact that it could be used to distract from the fact that there just isn't
    any reason for a rational person to take the QEG seriously as an energy producer.

    My personal experience is that when someone insists that one needs to suspend
    their rationality for a device to appear to work...it's because it doesn't work.
    Screen Shot 2015-01-29 at 1.47.36 PM.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Pete Tar

    Pete Tar Moderator Staff Member

    Why - does it only work if you believe? The state of your mind should not alter whether something mechanically works or not. Energy that only activates when you're in the right frame of mind isn't really very practical.
    The claim was they had it working and had produced overunity and they knew how to replicate it. They don't and they haven't.
    I would suggest spending your time and money not on free energy projects as much as renewable and efficiency projects. If you are economically in a tight spot the last thing you should be doing is throwing it into this sort of black hole until the results are proven beyond all doubt and properly tested.
    You're paying for someone to tinker around, and all indications are, over a year later, that they're just going in circles. Wait for a breakthrough before you give your precious money to this project.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  29. organicfarmer

    organicfarmer New Member

    Apparently it needs resonance and a further important receiver in a third way. As of now all the resonates is the core, and the magnetic field. Tesla had a coil amplifying a frequency from the 'air', which is easily gotten, but hard to tune.. is the way I understand it... I am not capable of understanding or explaining this. It's just what I've been told. Last week I did hear james say he is waiting for his equip to make it to Morocco. The voltage coming from the bigger coils is in the 10's of thousands, and the capacitors are used to get it into a more readily transformable state? As of now, it's as you said, basically a tank circuit. There is in fact an educated team working on this.. and James has 20 years experience with motors and gens, as in building them. He told us he is self taught.

    my EXPERIENCE God is not rational either, but very real. I believe sometimes, in thinking outside the box, whatever that is, old ideas are an impediment. There is as Carl Jung said a 'collective subconscious' that determines our collective reality. No one said anything about believing. If I were James, I would only want people on my team who did believe it could be done. .isn't that how inventors work.. he is trying to invent this thing.. WITTS ain't gettin up off it. And please, remember I can only speak for my viewpoint. I am a newcomer.. and merely a student. I certainly don't have any money to put into this thing unless James tells me it works and shows it to us.. which if he gets it done, I know he will.

    My point was, with him, it's not about the money or Jesus... he let me in his class. which he asked 200 for, for nothing. I have no idea the deal he makes with others. I can only talk about what he did with me. They have a fairly efficient generator at the moment. There is a third element that is not even begun to be built as of yet. And many people as you know around the world who are also collaborating on the idea. As for possibility thinking.. if one thinks it's impossible for God to enlighten, inspire, or provide a new invention to one.. where exactly do you think they come from. Everything in this world was first an idea. If nothing changes, nothing changes.

    For myself I am not willing to write it off or pronounce a judgement. AS far as my situation goes, I need immediate action, will get some hot water heaters off line with solar asap. already shut down two refrigerators, walk in, took a building off electric heat changed to wood. Do you think I can use brown's gas to augment gasoline in a tractor and gen elec for less than .10kw. I can do it 'free' with a wood gas contraption since I have an unlimited except for labor source. I am against any methods that use batteries, I don't see it necessary to get completely off grid. I'd like to gen 50K and sell the excess to arrive at a zero. That may be possible even now without QEG. I also have a high flow, low head stream I didn't tell you about... the choices to do something sooner than QEG are myriad and all about the same price. As of now a QEG, buying a pro coil and getting to the stage we're in costs in the area of 7500-9000 dollars. Not a lot of expense left to go in the rest of the project as I understand it. When it works it will be the cheapest bang for the buck too... I can't wait though; I am getting those hot water heaters off line this month. Already changed the house stove to induction.. but have two other kitchens with regular stove. I also have a propane contract at 1.89 for the year.
     
  30. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Me neither - it looks like gobledeygook and if it cannot be explained in terms of energy that reasonably intelligent and educated people can understand then I think it is a scam.
     
  31. Landru

    Landru Moderator Staff Member

    Start by explaining what "a further important receiver in a third way," means.
     
  32. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The problem is it's never going to work. There is nothing at all that indicates it's currently doing anything at all except warms the room a little with the energy lost in the various stages.

    You sound like you have serious financial problems, so I can understand something like this would be attractive. But you would do far better to invest your time and money in energy conservation, and finding the most economical things that are actually known to work, like renewables.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  33. organicfarmer

    organicfarmer New Member

    naysayers have always been around. You are far more educated than I.. this other part is described as an exciter coil in the pdf from FTW. I don't know many other farmers around this are that are not in a financial bind. I can always sell, not what I want... and you're exactly right Mr. West. That is precisely how I stumbled upon this item and this forum. I have no paper to hang on the wall. My father did his thesis at rice on cosmic rays, 1936, got his doctorate in geophysics. I'll be the first to admit I have not all the answers. I have no religion. No agenda in this. Merely trying to right a wrong impression some of you seem to have about others, their goals, and works. There is a huge difference between the two organizations. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way is how I mostly operate.
     
  34. NoParty

    NoParty Senior Member

    Don't worry about naysaying.

    That's not what's going on.

    Just people pointing out that these claims have NEVER actually been realized,
    nor has any verifiable evidence been put forth that suggests that they ever will be.
    What does that tell you?

    Snake oil salesmen have always existed and preyed on people's wishful thinking and desperation...
    one of the surest tell-tale signs, my friend, is that they are always promising that their future
    results will be better than their past results...but the rainbow has a way of never actually arriving...

    Best of luck...and keep both hands on your wallet...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  35. Auldy

    Auldy Senior Member

    In my mind the biggest red light is why do they need your/our money?

    If this technology is real and viable, it would represent a paradigm shift in the energy industry. The theory alone would be worth trillions. Every single venture capital firm, entrepreneurs, seed funding and investment groups would be fighting to the death to be the company heading this idea. They of course don't throw their money around without careful and thorough research because at its basis, the investment industry is a form of gambling. But no one is.

    People like Bill Gates spend more money a week than I will make in a lifetime on humanitarian goals and life improvement for millions. Do you think cheap limitless energy would be something he could solve by pairing up with WITTS/FTW? Why hasnt he? Why hasnt anyone?

    Why do WITTS/FTW come to us with their hands open?


    Red Light is on.
     
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  36. Bonkus Klunkit

    Bonkus Klunkit New Member

    Been reading up comments on QEC and James when I separately ran across this video...



    Input is measured, output is measured, Oscilloscope on hand...simple setup, simple explanation.

    I see the video, but have no idea how his setup could possibly be giving the KIND of results he's demonstrating (given the kind of setup/operation he's employing). Perpetual motion I have seen demonstrated with simple magnets, but OU? I need more than a bucket-load of credence to slop around before taking a casual look at folks' OU claims/devices...

    any help ?

    bonkus
     
  37. David Coulter

    David Coulter Active Member

    The flaw here is that he does not show current; the voltage is meaningless on its own. He forgot one part of the power equation: P=VI not P=V. All the video proves is that one can run a generator off a battery.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  38. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  39. Graham2001

    Graham2001 Active Member

    Just found a video on YouTube taking down another home-built 'free energy' machine powered by 'quantum', complete with a discussion of just what mistakes the designer is making (Warning, this is Australian so the Bull#&%@! bomb is dropped a few times, including in the title.)

     
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  40. David Coulter

    David Coulter Active Member

    Great video! There are a lot of times I would like to do something this detailed instead of invoking the simple Irish response: "that's fooking shyte".
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
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