Debunked: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG), 10kw out for 1kw in.

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Does anyone know the provenance?
Based on Tesla designs, so it has immediate market appeal. I'm pretty sure the original made no claims to do anything miraculous though.*

WITTS, Timothy Thrapp was running the same 'resonance generator' concept before FTW took it up.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:World_Improvement_Through_The_Spirit_Ministries



*edit - although reading some descriptions of his inventions, maybe he did imply a possible free-energy miracle
3. Tesla Coil

Tesla's best-known invention takes the spark-gap oscillator and uses it to vibrate vigorously a coil consisting of few turns of heavy conductor. Inside of this primary coil sits another secondary coil with hundreds of turns of slender wire. In the Tesla coil there is no iron core as in the conventional step-up transformer, and this air-core transformer differs radically in other ways. Recounting the birth of this invention, Tesla wrote, Each time the condenser was discharged the current would quiver in the primary wire and induce corresponding oscillations in the secondary. Thus, a transformer or induction coil on new principles was evolved Electrical effects of any desired character and of intensities undreamed of before are now easily producible by perfected apparatus of this kind. Elsewhere Tesla wrote, There is practically no limit to the power of an oscillator.
https://altered-states.net/barry/tesla/
Content from External Source
 
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Patrick J. Kelly

Banned
Banned
I am always reluctant to say that any device does not work. Even with a replication which fails to work, the most that can honestly be said is that and attempted replication was not successful. I was passed a copy of the QEG documentation within 24 hours of it being released, along with the suggestion that I should publish it. However, there are many reason why that is not going to happen.

Due to the previous experiences of several people, I believe WITTS to be a group of con artists and in my opinion, this QEG disclosure is just not believable. Obviously, I would be delighted to be proved wrong, but the repeated insistence that the device must be assembled by a professional "Electromechanical Engineer" combined with the insistence that extreme constructional accuracy is needed and so the components should be bought from their designated suppliers, and the added fact that they request donations to WITTS, convinces me that the whole thing is a money-making scam, quite possibly intended to damage the credibility of the free-energy movement as a whole. The claims of the document 'going viral' come from the originators of the document and are even more dubious than the document itself.

I am assured by a specialist, that the supposed link with Nikola Tesla is completely spurious as it is not relevant. The notion of adapting a linear device to a circular device almost never works in practice, which raises a large question mark over their statement. The wire specification is highly suspicious to say the least. They call for AWG #10 which has a current rating of 15 amps. There are two equal windings. I don't think that the windings are in parallel but let's say that they are, making the maximum sustained current for that wire to be 30 amps. Ignoring the extra current flow needed for the device to be self-powered, the claimed output of 10 kilowatts requires a current of 47 amps at 220V or 94 amps at 110V, either of which would fry the wiring to destruction in a minute or two if conventional electricity is flowing through the wire. If it is cold electricity, then only tiny diameter wire would be needed and certainly not AWG #10.

Finally, their claim that the winding has to be done by a professional company appears to set the plans solidly outside the scope of the home builder, contrary to their general claim that this is a design that anyone anywhere in the world can build, and so, all in all, sadly, the QEG document has every appearance of being a crude scam.
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
I am always reluctant to say that any device does not work. Even with a replication which fails to work, the most that can honestly be said is that and attempted replication was not successful.

But the entire concept violates the laws of physics in this universe (conservation of energy). Every attempt at building a perpetual motion machine (or overunity generator) will fail, regardless of the skill of the mechanic.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not understanding what vars is specifically but according to wiki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt-ampere_reactive

Reactive power (measured in vars) is present in a system containing reactive (inductive or capacitive) components and can be either produced or consumed by different load/generation elements. Though "imaginary", the reactive power has great physical significance and is essential to the operation of the electrical system as a whole. While the real power P is used to supply the energy required to perform actual work (such as running a motor), the reactive power regulates the voltage in the system.
Content from External Source

Yeah, I'm not too clear myself. But I think this is something that extends to the Moroccan builders - they are calculating reactive power, not real power. Real power (watts) is the only important measurement. How many watts are going in? How many are coming out.

And describing it as "imaginary" is not to say it does not exist - I think that more describes its trigonometric relationship to apparent power and real power (aka effective power). Apparent power is expressed as a complex number with a real and imaginary part.
 

Patrick J. Kelly

Banned
Banned
But the entire concept violates the laws of physics in this universe (conservation of energy). Every attempt at building a perpetual motion machine (or overunity generator) will fail, regardless of the skill of the mechanic.

Hi David,

Genuine science has been heavily suppressed for around a hundred years now. The so-called "Law of Conservation of Energy" applies only to "closed systems" and there are none of those in this universe as everywhere is subject to gravity, heat, electromagnetic radiation, cosmic particles, .... Using that kind of analysis system with its flawed assumptions, will analyse the functioning of a sailboat and happily ignore the fact that the same wind can power a thousand other sailboats in addition to the one which you are attempting to analyse. I personally, have proved that free-energy exists, and that was done with very simple equipment made in an evening. Laboratory tests have shown efficiencies well in excess of 1000% on a whole range of different designs. It is perfectly possible to run a standard, unmodified petrol generator with water as the only visible fuel, self-powering and providing kilowatts of excess energy and those have been used for years in off-grid locations. There are so many different methods of gaining free-energy that it really is not possible to discuss them here, so I invite you to visit my web site www.free-energy-info.com where there is a free ebook download of some 2600 pages giving the run-down on more than a hundred of these systems, with enough information for you to build them for yourself. Please remember that here we are just commenting on the QEG system and not free-energy as a whole.

Patrick
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
Hi David,

Genuine science has been heavily suppressed for around a hundred years now. The so-called "Law of Conservation of Energy" applies only to "closed systems" and there are none of those in this universe as everywhere is subject to gravity, heat, electromagnetic radiation, cosmic particles, .... Using that kind of analysis system with its flawed assumptions, will analyse the functioning of a sailboat and happily ignore the fact that the same wind can power a thousand other sailboats in addition to the one which you are attempting to analyse. I personally, have proved that free-energy exists, and that was done with very simple equipment made in an evening. Laboratory tests have shown efficiencies well in excess of 1000% on a whole range of different designs. It is perfectly possible to run a standard, unmodified petrol generator with water as the only visible fuel, self-powering and providing kilowatts of excess energy and those have been used for years in off-grid locations. There are so many different methods of gaining free-energy that it really is not possible to discuss them here, so I invite you to visit my web site www.free-energy-info.com where there is a free ebook download of some 2600 pages giving the run-down on more than a hundred of these systems, with enough information for you to build them for yourself. Please remember that here we are just commenting on the QEG system and not free-energy as a whole.

Patrick
No offense intended...but if i directed you to a 20,000 page library of my rock-solid evidence of unicorns, wouldn't you just prefer me to show you a clear video of one?
 

Patrick J. Kelly

Banned
Banned
No offense intended...but if i directed you to a 20,000 page library of my rock-solid evidence of unicorns, wouldn't you just prefer me to show you a clear video of one?

Absolutely not. Some people enjoy making fake videos. This has nothing to do with the QEG. Please stay on topic.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This is off-topic here. E-mail me direct at engpjk (at) gmail.com.

You made an extraordinary claim ("It is perfectly possible to run a standard, unmodified petrol generator with water as the only visible fuel, self-powering and providing kilowatts of excess energy and those have been used for years in off-grid locations."). Back it up. You can do it here or in a new thread.
 

Patrick J. Kelly

Banned
Banned
Right... but they don't make fake over-unity energy devices. :rolleyes: the topic is whether the device(s) in the OP are really showing over unity. Have any input on that?
Of course thay make fake devices which they claim are COP>1, that is the whole point. I don't believe that the QEG is COP>1 and I can see no reason why anyone else would believe that.
 

Patrick J. Kelly

Banned
Banned
You mean, it may have other fuel which is not visible?
Yes, of course, the same energy that powers the universe. How else do you think that a Joe Cell can power a Ford pick-up truck with using any gasoline? But then perhaps you don't believe that in spite of Bill Williams' family being threatened because of it.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Of course thay make fake devices which they claim are COP>1, that is the whole point. I don't believe that the QEG is COP>1 and I can see no reason why anyone else would believe that.

Please back up your claims of evidence of free energy. If you don't post any evidence, I'll have to assume you are trolling, and ban you.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Yes, of course, the same energy that powers the universe. How else do you think that a Joe Cell can power a Ford pick-up truck with using any gasoline? But then perhaps you don't believe that in spite of Bill Williams' family being threatened because of it.

Stock-in-trade for conspiracy theorists: proof = somebody was supposedly threatened over it. :rolleyes:
 

Patrick J. Kelly

Banned
Banned
You made an extraordinary claim ("It is perfectly possible to run a standard, unmodified petrol generator with water as the only visible fuel, self-powering and providing kilowatts of excess energy and those have been used for years in off-grid locations."). Back it up. You can do it here or in a new thread.

There is nothing extraordinary in the claim as it is a standard technology well proven over the years. I am not interested in starting a new thread as information exchange is far, far too slow on a forum. You will find full details in chapter 10 of my ebook if you care to read it. This information has been publicly shared for years now and I am amazed that you good people are not aware of it. It is a technology which really does not interest me as it has moving mechanical parts, while my interest lies with motionless generators (which I personally use every day). You ask me to back the statement up. I have done that for several years now, publishing the principles, the designs, the video links, the construction details. I certainly have no intention of going back to square one and explaining it all again step-by-step when it is already there free for the taking - be realistic.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
Yes, of course, the same energy that powers the universe. How else do you think that a Joe Cell can power a Ford pick-up truck with using any gasoline? But then perhaps you don't believe that in spite of Bill Williams' family being threatened because of it.
So what's the purpose of the water?
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
Jeeze, and I thought the magical georesonance supporters were [...]. The overunity energy people are double [...]. But maybe they come from a parallel universe where the laws of physics are different.

The so-called "Law of Conservation of Energy" applies only to "closed systems" and there are none of those in this universe as everywhere is subject to gravity, heat, electromagnetic radiation, cosmic particles, ....

Obviously I can build an overunity (fuel use) motor-generator provided it has huge solar panels and batteries attached to it! And I don't need to go to Morocco to do it (although, realistically, it would be easier to do in Morocco than Ireland).
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
A couple of comments from overunity forum...
Obviously some people just don't get it.

All the activity (oscillating power) in the Tank is input from the power supply. Fact or fiction ?

If not where does it come from ? I'm certain that the energy in the tank can be demonstrated to be "from the supply", by careful measurement.

Attaining a large amount of oscillating power in a resonant tank is the easy part thousands of people do it every day. Seeing the "QEG" showing a larger oscillating power than the input power is not even interesting or out of the ordinary.

Many have claimed that the greater oscillating power than input power is OU but none have shown any evidence or argument that is sensible.

Any half descent resonant tank can show a great amount of oscillating power. That is not output. Before energy can go out, it must go in as we cannot make energy.

There is no mechanism I can see for any external energy to enter the device, then be output to an intended load.

I myself have achieved hundreds of watts activity with under 10 watts input. This is nothing more than accumulated energy from the supply.

...

This report is good in the sense that it explains what the setup is exactly and what has been measured and how.

I have read the report in detail and based on the reported measurements (not the reported interpretations), there is no overunity. The analytical analysis of the test results is lacking.

Here is my feedback on the various new experiments they did:

Experiment 2
6x100W bulb load is in the secondary circuit in series with the coil. Resistance of a single bulb is 576ohms (100W at 240V). Or total load is 6x 576 = 3456 ohms (when hot). Their resistance number of 251.5 ohms appears to be the measured cold resistance of one bulb (or 6 bulbs in series; this is not clearly stated).

No efficiency is mentioned for the secondary circuit but it is clearly under unity based on the traces (around 30% max).

Then the power is analyzed in the primary circuit. In this case there is no load in the primary circuit, so of course what is measured is not real power. What seems not to be understood by them is that measuring reactive power in the primary can not be simply assumed as transferable into real power or into extractable power. In fact the energy oscillating in the primary circuit is energy stored in the coils and capacitor; the energy is transferred from the coils to the capacitor, then back from the capacitor to the coils, etc. Some energy is dissipated in the coil's resistance. What is actually measured is the rate (power = energy / second) of energy transfer between the coil and capacitor. They mention a number of 22,800 VAR, or 22,800 Joules going back and forth every second between coil and capacitor. This is certainly possible, but should not be used to claim overunity. With a 100% efficient motor drawing 607W, it would only take 37.5 seconds for the motor to build up this energy into the primary circuit. The question remains, how much real power can one draw from the primary without destroying the resonance and whether this number is more or less than the 607W that the motor puts in. From all experiments done to date, this number has always been less than what the motor consumes.

Experiment 3
This experiment is similar to Experiment 2 except that the load appears in the primary coils.
For the secondary coils, the same logic applies as what is explained above for the primary coils. What is measured is an energy transfer rate between coil and capacitor, not extractable power. In order to determine extractable power, a load has to be placed into the secondary circuit.
For the primary coils, it appears the voltage is measured over the load and capacitor together (or over the coil), so the current shape is very non-sinusoidal and there is no point discussing RMS power in this case. The voltage should instead have been measured over the bulbs to get an estimate of what the real efficiency might have been in this configuration. Here again no over unity is shown. Just some numbers that show the energy transfer rate of energy accumulated in the circuit between coil and capacitor.

Despite the fact that no overunity was shown, I think it is good though for everyone to see the full measurement report and raw data (despite the fact that some of the conclusions drawn in the report are incorrect). People should be able to draw their own conclusions based on the raw data.
Content from External Source
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
There are so many different methods of gaining free-energy that it really is not possible to discuss them here,

Everything is up for discussion. The impossibility arises when impossible things are claimed and no evidence provided.

so I invite you to visit my web site www.free-energy-info.com where there is a free ebook download of some 2600 pages giving the run-down on more than a hundred of these systems,

I think you're going to need to make a little more effort than that to find a mark or two around here.

Please remember that here we are just commenting on the QEG system and not free-energy as a whole.

Patrick

Oh but we are Patrick, we are.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Everything is up for discussion. The impossibility arises when impossible things are claimed and no evidence provided.



I think you're going to need to make a little more effort than that to find a mark or two around here.



Oh but we are Patrick, we are.
He has been banned.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
A fascinating post that tries to deflect the substantial criticisms directed at the demonstrated results of the project, by ignoring them completely and instead spinning an elaborate story complete with psychological profiling.
Free-Energy Trolls and Debunkers; A New Paradigm Guide
...
This post is to remind us all of the suppression around Tesla’s technology and to expose the same tactics the controllers are now trying to use with the QEG.
...
Many have told us that they see the QEG, which is a modern day Tesla invention, as a game changer that will start a chain reaction which can shift the present paradigm to end the old power structures of financial control. Given the magnitude of what has occurred since opensourcing the QEG plans, this is indeed a real possibility. With the exposure of the QEG comes the exposure of the lies about energy. These lies go deep.
...
Although we have no way of really knowing, we have been informed by some of our contacts that have access to top levels of internet monitoring information, that it is estimated between 80-90 MILLION PEOPLE know about the QEG. The more we research, the more the evidence points towards the possibility that these numbers are indeed valid.

With this increased awareness comes the resistance of the controlling powers that see the threat the QEG may have on their crumbling empire. This post is a study and breakdown of behaviors of the resistance of free energy in an attempt to highlight the patterns of these behaviors and present some suggestions for how to deal with them.
...
WHAT IS A TROLL OR DEBUNKER?

A “Troll” is defined as: one who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

Trolls are everywhere, they run rampant on social media, create entire websites just to highlight their trolling activities, spend countless man hours writing emails, and commenting on blogs and youtube videos.

There are two levels of trolls;

1) Those that get paid to be an internet troll as was fully exposed by documents leaked by Edward Snowden here.

2) Entities in the form of energy that manipulate human behavior to fulfill a negative end-goal agenda. These same entities are the source of the mind control program for paid trolls.

Most people who are paid trolls feel that they have no other option and don’t actually enjoy doing what they do and wish they could find a way out. For those who are not paid but exhibit troll behavior, they usually have some form of human suffering such as addictions, mental instability, or physical illnesses that leave them open and susceptible for negative entities to control their behavior. All of these behaviors are the result of the unspeakable suffering that humanity has endured for hundreds of years. For all of these beings we feel compassion and wish to do our part to end the suffering that has caused these behaviors on planet earth, which is the ultimate mission of FTW.
...
https://hopegirl2012.wordpress.com/2014/06/03/free-energy-trolls-and-debunkers-a-new-paradigm-guide/
Content from External Source
Note that debunker = troll (and also mental/emotional damage).
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Hopegirl, you could put this all to rest simply by demonstrating your machine running self powered for an hour - preferably on a glass-topped table, outdoors (you can use a generator to start it). And have it open to inspection.

The utter failure of anyone to do this can only indicate that it does not work.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Yes indeed - the repeated failure of free energy/over-unity believers to demonstrate their machines in action without multiple caveats, potential for hidden input, etc, is pointed and damning IMO.
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
A fascinating post that tries to deflect the substantial criticisms directed at the demonstrated results of the project, by ignoring them completely and instead spinning an elaborate story complete with psychological profiling.

It was nice to learn I am a member of The Cabal. As an introvert I was never a "joiner".

Follow Hopegirl's link to the "Fix The World Project PDF" if you want an interesting read - seems to be a CT bible. Her proposed new world order is a combination of Libertarianism, Communism, Anarchism, New Age-ism, and 1984-ism (purge all recorded history and replace with "true history"). I am not going to quote any of it here as it is so long and contains every CT concept.
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
Latest QEG video:


I am confused by what the guy in the video is trying to prove other than you can generate an AC phase shift by putting capacitors in a circuit. X axis on the oscilloscope is phase and has nothing to do with the power being generated. All that is happening is that the tank circuit is delaying the AC by a fraction of a cycle by storing and releasing charge in capacitors. Is that the bunk here? They are confusing people by arguing that phase equals power rather than total amplitude? Did I miss something in the video?
 

David Coulter

Senior Member.
That link makes it clear. They are generating a phase shift which increases var, but var is meaningless for running anything as the imaginary part does no work. A clever way to fool people. In fact, the video does start out like a magic trick: "nothing under the table" [waving hand under table].
 

Efftup

Senior Member.
what is the quantum effect that is claimed to be generated? Or is it just throwing Quantum in there cos it's sciencey and mysterious (it's how Homeopathy "works" too, apparently) to make the thing sound more plausible, of course linking with Tesla, because EVERYONE knows the NWO suppressed all of Tesla's best work. Never mind the fact that Tesla's Resonance device was a steam powered oscillator and had nothing to do with this QEG machine.

I agree with everyone else. If it works, it; should be easy to prove it. demonstrate it starting up from a power source and then remove the power source, to show it works without. and allowing the machine to be examined to show there is no hidden power source.

As you can not just create energy out of nothing, if it does work, where does the energy actually come from? has any QEG proponent ever actually come up with a sensible hypothesis for this?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
In fact, the video does start out like a magic trick: "nothing under the table" [waving hand under table].

Nothing under the table, except for all these wires, and the dark areas.

I don't think they had an extra power source though, as they did not generate extra power. But it was a rather poor demonstration.

And anyone who has see Veproject1's videos knows faking perpetual motion on video is quite possible:
https://www.youtube.com/user/veproject1/videos
 
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