Errors in Luis Elizondo's UFO Book "Imminent"

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Pc48yXWyI


I collected a few errors I noticed in Elizondo's book in the above video (transcript below), and thought it might be useful to have a thread to collect any others that happen to be there.



Luis Elizondo's book "Imminent - Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs" contains many extraordinary claims about crashed alien craft, psychic powers, abductions, implants, vast government conspiracies, glowing orbs, and other unusual things.

Unfortunately, Elizondo provided no supporting evidence for the more extreme claims, saying that they are all classified. So how are we to judge the accuracy of claims in the book.

What we can do is fact-check as much as possible, and then extrapolate the results of that out to the rest of the book.

There are some things we can check. In particular He talks about four videos, Gimbal, Gofast, Flir1, and Aguadilla. I'm very familiar with these, having done some fairly complex analysis on them over the years. So if I fact check Elizondo's account of those videos, that should give an indication how accurate the rest of the book is.

What I found was rather surprising. His descriptions of the videos were riddled with basic errors.

The first video is the famous Gimbal video, about which he says on page 146:

the object looks elongated and white. But that color is somewhat misleading. Since the camera is in infrared mode, white merely indicates that the object is "cold"—no heat emanating from the aircraft at all.

This is just not just wrong, it's backwards. The camera is in white hot mode, WHT, which means the object is hot, not cold, and it means there IS a heat signature. He repeats this error again after the camera switches to black hot mode, BHT.

The object is now black, which in this camera mode also indicates that the object is "cold"—no heat signature.

But again, it's the opposite, the object is hot, and there is a heat signature. Much is made of objects that fly without a heat signature, but this is not one of those objects. He got that fundamental fact entirely wrong.

When the camera does that change from White Hot to Black Hot, he describes this as:

Suddenly everything in the image pulls into better resolution. You can practically hear the pilots gasp

But when this happens the resolution remains exactly the same. The image is simply inverted, and there's zero reaction from the pilots at that point

Rather bizarrely, after telling us twice that it's a cold object with no heat signature, he then tells us that it's a hot object, saying on page 150

The object itself was indicated as being very hot; however, the air surrounding it was very cold. It didn't make any sense.

As well as being the opposite of what he said earlier, this comment about "the air surrounding it" refers to another thing that's wrong, the concept of an aura or bubble around the craft. He mentions this several times.

Page 149:
a slight aura can be seen around the GIMBAL object? Was this a protective bubble? Was this an artifact of the propulsion unit?

Page 153:
I remembered that a bubble around an aircraft was exactly what we'd seen in the GIMBAL video

Page 150:

... that weird little bubble. Was it some sort of illusion or effect produced by the camera? According to the CIA, it was not. It was not an artifact of the camera nor a lens flare. Whatever it was, it was real.


And yet it wasn't. We know what it was, an artifact of the camera, something we've seen on many other videos, and something confirmed by people familiar with the camera system. We see it here, using the same camera. The man from the CIA was wrong, but Elizondo accepts the faulty assessment despite, on page 149, mercilessly mocking the CIA rep for "half-assed" exploration, "tortured logic," and "comical" responses.

The reason for his attachment to the idea of an aura or bubble is revealed later when he speculates about anti-gravity drives using some kind of warp bubble. He even says of Gimbal "On the observables scale, it was clearly an antigravity device."

But there's no bubble, and it's not at all clear that it's anti-gravity. Analysis show there are other explanations that are a lot simpler, like thermal glare obscuring a distant jet, roating because the camera rotates, but that's another topic.

Finally on Gimbal, Elizondo says:

Everything the video showed, the pilots backed up with eyewitness testimony.

This is misleading at best. The pilots didn't actually see the object - because it was dark. All they saw were some tracks on the radar, and the same video we see now.

A false claim of eyewitness verification is also made when Elizondo talks about the second video, FLIR1.

FLIR1 is from the famous Tic-Tac Nimitz case, where two planes first had an encounter with something they described as a large flying Tic-Tac, and then a hour or so later, a different plane got video of an object they suspected was the same thing.

Elizondo starts out saying:

Seeing it on radar, and then with the naked eye, the pilot attempted to gain a lock on the Tic Tac

But if we look at the account of the pilot, interviewed in 2019, we see this was not the case. The pilot, Chad Underwood, says:

I didn't see anything with my eyeballs.
and he agreed that he "couldn't make visual contact with [his] own eyes"

Elizondo's next mistake is to say:

the pilot attempted to gain a lock on the Tic Tac. Cycling through various modes on his aircraft radar, he found it difficult to obtain one.

and

the UAP defies the pilot's attempt to get a good lock on it

This is just flat wrong. When we first see the object there's a rock solid passive track. We can see from the heading angle change that the object is moving from right to left, and yet it remains solidly in the center of the screen.
The camera is locked on.

The only time we see a brief degrading of the lock is when Underwood switches camera modes and the camera briefly can't see the object. The cycling through the modes was something Underwood said he was doing to get better video images, not to obtain locks. It's the exact opposite of what Elizondo said.

Elizondo then goes on to makes a bizarre and inexplicable claim, saying that the object:

displays no heat or acoustic signature

The reference to an acoustic signature is weird. The video has only cockpit audio. The ATFLIR does not record audio of distant objects. "acoustic signature" makes no sense.

But even stranger is the claim that there's no heat signature. At the start of the video we are in white hot mode and we see this heat signature. It's a heat source that so hot that we are getting this star-shaped glare. A very distinct heat signature.

The parts of the video that show a black object are in TV mode, which is not showing heat either way, but 40 seconds into the video Underwood switches back into IR mode (causing another brief loss of lock) and again we see the heat signature, this is seen most clearly towards the end of the video when we see what might be the heat signature from the shape of the aircraft, with a hot spot, maybe the engines, on the right side. We can't tell what this is, but it 100% has a heat signature.

Finally, Elizondo claims:

it's flying at hypersonic speeds and able to execute a maneuver almost instantaneously

And that it has an "instant disappearance" going "over the horizon in an instant"

None of this is apparent in the video, nor was it seen by Underwood, who never saw it with his eyeballs. We DO see the object fly off screen at one point due to a change in the optical path (like rotating the lenses on a microscope). At the end of the video we see the object drift off screen. It's moving at the same angular speed that it was being tracked at - the camera has simply lost lock due to all the changes Underwood was making. And then it was simply lost to the camera as Underwood zoomed in instead of out, and failed to slew the camera to follow it. There's nothing in the video that indicates it had hypersonic speed or vanished over the horizon.

The third video is GoFast. Elizondo has a short description of this, saying on page 145:

The object in one of the videos also resembled a Tic Tac, at least in the sense that it was rounded, smooth, and egg-shaped.

This is nonsense. The object in GoFast is a white fuzzy dot that covers about 8 pixels on screen. There's no way of knowing if it's rounded or shaped like a pyramid or a snowflake. You certainly can't tell if it's smooth or egg shaped.

And this 480P is the actual resolution in which the videos are recorded in-cockpit. Elizondo saw the same video you are looking at now.

He then says:

After several years of analysis, however, later researchers would claim that the object was going much slower than previously thought.

Claiming this took "Several Years" is very, very, wrong. The video was released to the public on March 9th, 2018. And on THAT SAME DAY I did the basic math that showed it was going much slower. The next day I was making videos in my backyard demonstrating parallax. Many other people did similar math.

So suggesting that it took several years to figure out is ridiculous, just wrong.

Elizondo then said:

This effect is called a parallax. I still don't agree with this assessment, since the pilots who witnessed the object flying marveled at its speed.

Again here the problem is that the video was shot at night. The pilots could not see the object, they only saw the same video we see here. We don't know what the object is, or even exactly how fast it's going (as we don't know the wind speeds) but we know it's not going particularly fast, and it's probably something like a balloon. And there's definitely parallax.


Finally we come to Aguadilla. This video was again shot at night, and Elizondo's first big mistake is to say:

"A UAP was spotted near the airport and was quickly tracked by a helicopter"

It was not a helicopter, it was a plane, which is a very important distinction as helicopters can hover, but the plane is in constant motion, which means we get a significant parallax effect.

Elizondo says:

The object, small, asymmetrical, and lobed, seemed to detect that it was being monitored by one of our helicopters. When it did, it zipped away.

Nothing like that appears in the video. The motion of the object appears near constant for the entire duration. At no point does it seem to "zip away"

Elizondo continues:

The pilots watched as the object swooped across an airfield and headed straight for the open waters of the Atlantic

What we see in the video is apparent motion - a combination of the the motion of the object itself, and the motion of the plane. Many different people and organizations have anlayzed the video and concluded a good fit for what we see is simply something like a pair of chinese lanterns drifting slowly in the wind. The motion we see is almost all parallax, and the object goes nowhere near the water, and certainly not under water.

Even discounting that, thought, there's no zipping away and no swooping across the airfield. Nor does it go straight for the water. If you take the apparent motion as real motion it's just going in a very lazy circle. Really though the most likely path is a straight line, in the direction of the wind.

Elizondo continues:

As the helicopter pursued it, the object then did the unimaginable. It dove into the ocean (transmedium travel).

First, it's not a helicopter. Second the plane was not pursuing it. In fact, at the time when the objects have the ocean behind them, the plane is flying away from it at 200 mph, parallax or no parallax. Again, it's the exact opposite of what Elizondo described.

There's a lot of that, lots of errors in things that are relatively straightforward, public knowledge. There' other things, like how he puts the wrong pilot in the back seat of David Fravor's plane. Jim Slaight was actually in the back seat of Alex Dietrich's plane. There's a pattern of sloppy inaccuracies and downplaying the simpler explanations.

----


So, I set out here to sample the accuracy of Elizondo's book. I picked the parts that I was familiar with, and that were based on public information that anyone can verify - the videos. You can see there are lots of errors, some wishful thinking, and sometimes claims of things being the exact opposite of how they actually were.

Can we then extrapolate this to the rest of the book? If these four videos are so terribly misreported, does that mean the rest of the books is just as riddled with errors?

Not necessarily. Maybe he just wasn't really that familiar with the videos. However, those videos have been the backbone of the UFO case for the last six years. If he got them wrong, it's fair to ask what else he got wrong
 
I'm afraid that a large swath of the UFO community has decided these are videos of honest-to-goodness UFOs, and that's the end of the story. Anyone trying to provide alternative explanations, which don't involve aliens or "breakthrough technology," has ulterior motives or is simply dismissed as a skeptic who refuses to see the truth.

What I find fascinating is the individuals that do actually profit from perpetuating these narratives often go unquestioned, or are sometimes lauded as "patriots", while those who advocate for a more scientific or skeptical approach are disregarded.
 
Luis Elizondo's book "Imminent - Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs" contains many extraordinary claims about crashed alien craft, psychic powers, abductions, implants, vast government conspiracies, glowing orbs, and other unusual things.

Unfortunately, Elizondo provided no supporting evidence for the more extreme claims, saying that they are all classified. So how are we to judge the accuracy of claims in the book.
Thanks, Mick. You've saved me from reading the thing and having to do fact-checking.
 
This should be embarassing for him, especially as someone who I assumed were supposed to be able to reliably produce good, verifiable, fact-based intelligence analysis, but I predict that he won't be confronted with this by anyone other than a few debunkers like Mick. The papers seem happy enough to just parrot his claims and it seems like the entire UFOs subreddit is fully back on #teamlue after there being at least a few dissidents critizing and ridiculing his claims of remote viewing powers earlier this year.

When I see mistakes like these from someone who supposedly made a living as a member of the intelligence community I am reminded of the fact that when the Swedish FBI equivalent were surveilling leftists in the in the 1970s, their list of anarchist groups deemed potential threats to national security consisted of four entries, one of which was a literal one-man organization and one that there is no evidence it ever existed at all*.


*For anyone interested, you can read about this often illegal, sometimes comically inept surveillance in the Statens offentliga utredningar ([Swedish] Government Official Reports) 2002:91: Hotet från vänster. Säkerhetstjänsternas övervakning av kommunister, anarkister m.m. 1965-2002. The information alluded to above can be found on p. 311.
 
2024-08-25_12-28-47.jpg


Terahertz is not a unit of energy, it's a unit of frequency.
 
And all mentioning them piecemeal on twitter does is allow UFO fans to come up with fun fan theories that were what "he totally meant" like the legions of Star Wars fans trying to explain George Lucas' 'parsecs' gaff in Star Wars.

Elizondo should be quizzed directly on what he meant.
 
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Terahertz is not a unit of energy, it's a unit of frequency.
External Quote:
...somewhere in the 3.2 or 5.6 Terahertz range.
(Quoting Luis Elizondo's "Imminent").

To be pedantic, it doesn't need to be capitalised either, any more than "megahertz" or "millimetre" is.
 
Terahertz is not a unit of energy, it's a unit of frequency.
And presumably, the energy would be needed to be applied over time to "sustain" something, so it would actually require power (measured in Watt, or terawatt), not energy.

For example, it requires power to sustain a supercavitation bubble (even though it does not warp spacetime).
 
Is there an explanation of the arrows at all?
Not that I can see, but the entire chapter is nonsensical. Take this:

External Quote:

So whatever you put in it has to fit neatly inside the bubble, which is equal distance on all sides from the center, 360 degrees. Because you can't be in different space-times at once, you would never want to have part of your craft inside the bubble while another part of your craft was outside it. The bubble must surround the craft equally, on all sides, to avoid catastrophic consequences. There is only one shape in geometry that allows you to be protected equally on all sides: think of our diving bell analogy, a sphere. A sphere-shaped craft may not be very practical when the bubble is turned off. The object would be rolling all over the place. So an alternative solution would be to flatten your sphere into a disc . . . A saucer. Form follows function. The stereotypical flying saucer looks the way it does because it must fit inside that bubble while remaining protected on all sides.
That makes no sense. The surface of a sphere would be equidistant from the bubble, but a saucer would not.

2024-08-26_04-06-55.jpg


The top and bottom would be irregular distances, so if he's correct that:

"The bubble must surround the craft equally, on all sides, to avoid catastrophic consequences."

Then there would be catastrophic consequences.

If there were not, then there' would be no restrictions on the shape, just anything that could fit inside would do.
 
Terahertz is not a unit of energy, it's a unit of frequency.
Careful with that argument, he has a wiggle available to him. If mass is energy, just multiply by the constant c^2, then frequency is energy, just multiply by the constant h.
 
External Quote:
A sphere-shaped craft may not be very practical when the bubble is turned off. The object would be rolling all over the place. So an alternative solution would be to flatten your sphere into a disc . . . A saucer. Form follows function.
If you put the center of gravity near the bottom of the sphere (like adding ballast to the keel of a ship), the sphere will not roll. Surely a technologically advanced civilisation knows this.

The problem is that even a flattened sphere (a saucer) will spin like a frisbee, which is one reason why most animals and vessels moving through fluid have an elongated shape. A submarine, for example, is nearly circular in circumference, and thus should "be rolling all over the place", but doesn't. But it is elongated so that it may have directional stability.
 
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Careful with that argument, he has a wiggle available to him. If mass is energy, just multiply by the constant c^2, then frequency is energy, just multiply by the constant h.
it's just not "a lot of energy", even visible light photons have more than Elizondo's "Terahertz". We could warp spacetime with a flashlight!
 
I'm having flashbacks of Gene Ray's Time Cube:
Time_Cube.png

via: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Cube

But back on the topic of the wrong units, are we letting him get away with "So whatever you put in it has to fit neatly inside the bubble, which is equal distance on all sides from the center, 360 degrees."? He should be talking solid angles here, so something like steradians. (Unfortunately, probably we ought to - "360 degrees" is a gloss, commonly meaning "all the way around".)
 
External Quote:

In May 2022, one requirement of the new law went on full display. Congress held a historic public hearing on UAP. The hearing lasted ninety minutes. The very fact that it happened was monumental, and it made it clear to many civilians and elected leaders that they needed to press the UAP issue going forward, and that DoD was covering up the topic. Unlike the 180-day report, which covered 143 unresolved cases, the DoD witnesses revealed that they now had more than 400 logged in the last year. The hearing confirmed UAP are indeed real and not a glitch of technological systems or a weather anomaly. It confirmed UAP are not our technology and are a potential threat to air safety and our national security. And when asked about any research into other UAP programs, the head of the Pentagon's intelligence efforts, Ronald Moultrue, said, "Other than AATIP and Blue Book, no." This was a silent victory for me. At least now the Pentagon acknowledged the existence of my old program, AATIP, and its efforts focusing on UAP. All this under oath.

Elizondo, Luis. Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs: the Former Head of the Program Responsible for Investigating UAPs Reveals Profound Secrets (p. 236). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.
Here, he misspells Ron Moultrie's name. And the quote isn't actually a quote.

https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114761/documents/HHRG-117-IG05-Transcript-20220517.pdf
External Quote:
Mr. Gallagher. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for allowing me to join this hearing. I really appreciate the witness's testimony. Mr. Moultrie, as the chairman mentioned, DOD had initiative to study UFOs in the 1960s called Project Blue Book. It has also been well reported in our briefing and in other places that we have more recent projects, specifically AATIP. Could you describe any other initiatives that the DOD or DOD contractors have managed after Project BlueBook ended and prior to AATIP beginning? Did anything also predate Project Blue Book?

Mr. Moultrie. So I can't speak to what may have predated Project Blue Book. I mean, of course, there is Roswell and all these other things that people have talked about over the years. I am familiar with Blue Book. I am familiar with AATIP. I haven't seen other documented studies done by the DOD in that regard.

Mr. Gallagher. So you are not aware of anything between Project Blue Book and AATIP.

Mr. Moultrie. Not aware of anything that is official that was done between between those two.

Mr. Gallagher. Okay.

Mr. Moultrie. Hasn't been brought to my attention.
 
View attachment 70977

Terahertz is not a unit of energy, it's a unit of frequency.

External Quote:
It also turns out that this bubble, in theory
(Bolding mine). Does he also specify which "theory" he is basing this off of? It sounds like he's probably referring to an Alcubierre drive. (Also sorry for pestering for these small details; I really don't want to get this book.)
 
Does he also specify which "theory" he is basing this off of? It sounds like he's probably referring to an Alcubierre drive. (Also sorry for pestering for these small details; I really don't want to get this book.)
Such a bubble is wildly theoretical in mostly-empty space, and ridiculous to suggest in water, which would have to be displaced.
 
Such a bubble is wildly theoretical in mostly-empty space, and ridiculous to suggest in water, which would have to be displaced.
For sure. If Elizondo specifies an actual theory behind his claims, then we can evaluate his claims more closely, such as what the source of energy would be.
 
Does he also specify which "theory" he is basing this off of? It sounds like he's probably referring to an Alcubierre drive. (Also sorry for pestering for these small details; I really don't want to get this book.)
He appears to be suggestig and Alcubierre drive, with the energy derived from either vacuum-fluctuation zero-point energy, or cracking the protons in hydrogen, so it could run off water - or maybe heavy water. He seemed to be seeking a justification for the imagined attraction UFOs have to water.

External Quote:

But where did they get all that energy? Sitting in that room, we attempted to imagine a holy grail of fuels, a dream engine that would burn without creating enormous thermal heat while providing an inexhaustible supply of energy.

Hal explained that if one were to try to achieve the levels of energy required to warp space-time, one might need to start with the most basic form of energy that we know of—that of the underlying roiling quantum fluctuations of empty space, so-called vacuum fluctuations.
This speculative hypothesis, yet to be practically implemented, was based on the now well-studied phenomenon of what is commonly referred to as zero-point energy. However, also discussed were alternative hypotheses.

I remembered a conversation I had, years prior, with another scientist. His speculation was that the hydrogen atom, or, more specifically, the proton of a hydrogen atom, could be harnessed and ultimately used for energy in a similar way as we do today with nuclear power plants. The only thing lacking was an efficient technology to crack the proton open in a useful and controlled manner to release potential energy. From there one could unlock the unimaginable energy held hidden deep within the nucleus. Although hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, it is usually in the form of a gas. However, hydrogen happens to be abundant in a very dense form that we know more commonly as liquid water, or H2O.

At the time, we already had sufficient data to imply that UAP were often encountered near bodies of water and, in some cases, appeared to be interacting with it. Liquid water seemed to be a commonality, and some data even suggested that UAP were taking water on board.

If this was true, all one had to do was remove the oxygen from the hydrogen molecule of H2O, and voila! You have a virtually unlimited supply of protons to crack open and unlock the energy hidden deep within.

I thought to myself, maybe our planet is simply a gas station? We humans have gone to war many times to protect our own resources. Maybe UAP are concerned about their planetary gas station? Were we simply a galactic Exxon pump? Recently, our own scientists on earth have identified other planets with water. Surely a species this advanced can figure out the same.

I got chills thinking about it. So many of the long-standing mysteries now made better sense to me.

The Nimitz and Roosevelt sightings happened on the open sea. In the Belgian Congo in 1952, the UAP fled the uranium mines and escaped in the direction of Lake Tanganyika, the second-largest freshwater lake in the world. And in that 1988 UAP incident on Lake Erie, as the UAP descended, the Coast Guard investigators observed "that the ice was cracking and moving abnormal amounts as the object came closer." I thought of that Tic Tac darting around a roiling, bubbling circle of the Pacific Ocean in 2004. Maybe, when the water or ice is agitated, these ships can more easily strip off and harvest the hydrogen atoms?

Elizondo, Luis. Imminent: Inside the Pentagon's Hunt for UFOs: the Former Head of the Program Responsible for Investigating UAPs Reveals Profound Secrets (pp. 163-164). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.
 
External Quote:
Although hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, it is usually in the form of a gas. However, hydrogen happens to be abundant in a very dense form that we know more commonly as liquid water, or H2O.
excerpted from the longer quote Mick posts at https://www.metabunk.org/threads/errors-in-luis-elizondos-ufo-book-imminent.13613/post-321732

I sense a bit of (intentional?) understatement there. Hydrogen is not only the most abundant element of the universe -- 0ver 90% of the atoms in the Universe are hydrogen, which accounts for 75% of the total mass of the Universe.

Composition-of-the-Universe-1024x683.png


Water is also quite common and by no means a unique feature of Earth. Even in our solar system, if you wanted to tank up on water you would not need to mess about with a planet crawling with life-forms that had fighter jets.


External Quote:
Saturn's moon Enceladus and Jupiter's moon Europa are two examples. Both appear to have salty, liquid oceans covered with thick layers of ice at the surface. Scientists have observed water plumes erupting from Enceladus, and believe similar plumes can be found on Europa.
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/et-oceans.html

Or the comets would be a handy, and safe, source of water ice. And the water would not be at the bottom of the sort of gravity well you have to deal with at Earth. There would be no need whatsoever for Earth to be considered a "a galactic Exxon pump" and important resource for UFO pilots to refuel.

Edited to soften the "intentional" part of my comment on the understatement of Mr. Elizondo. It feels like palming a card to me, but I'll stress I am not a mind reader and my impression, while strong, is still just my impression...
 
Thank you for the video critiques, I appreciate it. Someone on Reddit stated he might be "a disinformation agent..." (Or maybe partially so?) Almost seems hard to believe some of these errors are unintentional (e.g., the hot/cold error, did they really mess that up unintentionally)...? Bottom line, I don't know.
 
Nice to see Michio being skeptical, I thought.
Not very skeptical in my opinion. He first parrots some of Elizondo's claims and only at the end does he suggest that perhaps it all maybe ought to be looked into some more. The typical UFO fan will watch the first half of that and then start jumping up and down screaming "It's all true, it's all true!" I fear Michio is becoming too fond of being on camera.
 
Not very skeptical in my opinion. He first parrots some of Elizondo's claims and only at the end does he suggest that perhaps it all maybe ought to be looked into some more. The typical UFO fan will watch the first half of that and then start jumping up and down screaming "It's all true, it's all true!" I fear Michio is becoming too fond of being on camera.
I have the same opinion. A not sceptical enough physicist to take seriously anymore, sadly.
 
I'd really like to know why the arrows on the left and right are in different directions.

I can only assume it's something to do with DIRECTION OF MOTION.

Not sure what the arrows would do at the poles either. Presumably that's why he hasn't drawn them.
The picture makes no sense. Arrows look very impressive, but have no meaning.
The labels "inside bubble" and "outside bubble" are also extremely helpful and indicative.
 
The picture makes no sense. Arrows look very impressive, but have no meaning.
The labels "inside bubble" and "outside bubble" are also extremely helpful and indicative.
but they sure look super scientifical

there is "inside bubble" and "bubble", which begs the question what the bubble is made of? is Elizondo imagining something like a soap bubble, rather than a gas/vacuum bubble in fluid? the latter would have no "shell", thus there is nothing other than "inside" and "outside".
 
there is "inside bubble" and "bubble", which begs the question what the bubble is made of? is Elizondo imagining something like a soap bubble, rather than a gas/vacuum bubble in fluid? the latter would have no "shell", thus there is nothing other than "inside" and "outside".
I'm more interested in what is outside of the bubble "pushing" in the bubble of the right hand side but is "pulling" out the bubble on the left hand side.

How do the arrows not collapse the bubble?

Luis suggests there's a "theory" at work here.
 
The Alcubierre metric is quite a bit more complicated than shown in Elizondo's book. Here's a version by Lawrence Ford and Tom Roman, from a Scientific American article.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/negative-energy-wormholes-and-warp/ (subscription required)

worm4.jpg

Note that the space-time metric is condensed in front of the bubble, and expanded behind it - this is supposedly how the bubble moves.
 
Someone on Reddit stated he might be "a disinformation agent..." (Or maybe partially so?) Almost seems hard to believe some of these errors are unintentional (e.g., the hot/cold error, did they really mess that up unintentionally)...?

Maybe a subject for another thread, but I'm a bit sceptical about "official" disinformation agents in the UFO field.

We know that in the 1950s and 60s the US authorities wouldn't tell people who reported a UFO that they'd probably seen a secret reconnaissance plane, but I don't think that's disinformation- it's just not explaining to those who don't "need to know":

External Quote:
High-altitude testing of the U-2 soon led to an unexpected side effect-a tremendous increase in reports of unidentified flying objects (UFOs). In the mid-1950s, most commercial airliners flew at altitudes between 10.000 and 20.000 feet and military aircraft like the B-47s and B-57s operated at altitudes below 40.000 feet. Consequently. once U-2s started flying at altitudes above 60,000 feet, air-traffic controllers began receiving increasing numbers of UFO reports...
...BLUE BOOK investigators regularly called on the Agency's [CIA- John J.] Project Staff in Washington to check reported UFO sightings against U-2 flight logs. This enabled the investigators to eliminate the majority of the UFO reports, although they could not reveal to the letter writers the true cause of the UFO sightings. U-2 and later OXCART flights accounted for more than one-half of all UFO reports during the late 1950s and most of the 1960s.
From the section "U-2s, UFOs, AND OPERATION BLUE BOOK", pages 72-73 (PDF pages 34 and 35), chapter 2, https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB434/docs/U2 - Chapter 2.pdf),
The Central Intelligence Agency and Overhead Reconnaissance: The U-2 and Oxcart Programs,
Gregory W. Pedlow and Donald E. Welzenbach, History Staff, Central Intelligence Agency, 1992.

If I remember rightly, someone posted here evidence that a CIA operative (in the 60s or 70s?) advised a domestically unpopular but pro-US government in Latin America to distract their people from negative coverage of their regime by putting out "human interest stories" (I think that phrase, or something close to it, was used), suggesting a UFO sighting or the birth of quintuplets (again IIRC- might have been quadruplets or sextuplets!) But I think these were just examples of sensationalist subjects, not a specific instruction to forge ahead with a hoax UFO program (though I guess you could call it advice on disinformation).
Can't find a link, sorry.

Some UFO enthusiasts and groups seem to label others in their field who they have disagreements with as misinformation agents, usually with no checkable evidence (other than the 'agent' has publicly disagreed with that person's/ group's views).
People who put forward prosaic explanations for extraordinary claims are also sometimes characterised as misinformation agents, even when their 'sceptical' interpretation turns out to be credible and evidence-based.
(I think this unjust silliness has been applied to our host, Mick West, and at least one other Metabunker).

Luis Elizondo has a long track record in Ufology, and has consistently pushed for greater government disclosure about UFOs (though maybe the government doesn't have the information Luis seeks). Some of his claims (e.g. about AATIP and Project Stargate) are hard to verify and might seem unlikely, but I don't think he's working to anyone else's agenda, or seeking to undermine belief in UFOs etc.

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Almost seems hard to believe some of these errors are unintentional...
Lots of books about UFOs, ancient astronauts, ESP and other reports of strange phenomena contain dubious claims, selective re-telling of accounts, serious scientific/ historical blunders, and sometimes just plain nonsense (think George Adamski,

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In his 1955 book Inside the Space Ships, Adamski claimed that Orthon arranged for him to be taken on a trip to see the Solar System, including the planet Venus, the location where Orthon said the late Mrs. Adamski had been reincarnated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Adamski. He also "saw" a flourishing biosphere on the far side of the moon).

Only Luis Elizondo knows what Luis Elizondo believes, but his shaky theories and demonstrable mistakes aren't unusual in Ufology.
 
Maybe a subject for another thread, but I'm a bit sceptical about "official" disinformation agents in the UFO field.

We know that in the 1950s and 60s the US authorities wouldn't tell people who reported a UFO that they'd probably seen a secret reconnaissance plane, but I don't think that's disinformation- it's just not explaining to those who don't "need to know":

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High-altitude testing of the U-2 soon led to an unexpected side effect-a tremendous increase in reports of unidentified flying objects (UFOs). In the mid-1950s, most commercial airliners flew at altitudes between 10.000 and 20.000 feet and military aircraft like the B-47s and B-57s operated at altitudes below 40.000 feet. Consequently. once U-2s started flying at altitudes above 60,000 feet, air-traffic controllers began receiving increasing numbers of UFO reports...
...BLUE BOOK investigators regularly called on the Agency's [CIA- John J.] Project Staff in Washington to check reported UFO sightings against U-2 flight logs. This enabled the investigators to eliminate the majority of the UFO reports, although they could not reveal to the letter writers the true cause of the UFO sightings. U-2 and later OXCART flights accounted for more than one-half of all UFO reports during the late 1950s and most of the 1960s.
From the section "U-2s, UFOs, AND OPERATION BLUE BOOK", pages 72-73 (PDF pages 34 and 35), chapter 2, https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB434/docs/U2 - Chapter 2.pdf),
The Central Intelligence Agency and Overhead Reconnaissance: The U-2 and Oxcart Programs,
Gregory W. Pedlow and Donald E. Welzenbach, History Staff, Central Intelligence Agency, 1992.

If I remember rightly, someone posted here evidence that a CIA operative (in the 60s or 70s?) advised a domestically unpopular but pro-US government in Latin America to distract their people from negative coverage of their regime by putting out "human interest stories" (I think that phrase, or something close to it, was used), suggesting a UFO sighting or the birth of quintuplets (again IIRC- might have been quadruplets or sextuplets!) But I think these were just examples of sensationalist subjects, not a specific instruction to forge ahead with a hoax UFO program (though I guess you could call it advice on disinformation).
Can't find a link, sorry.

Some UFO enthusiasts and groups seem to label others in their field who they have disagreements with as misinformation agents, usually with no checkable evidence (other than the 'agent' has publicly disagreed with that person's/ group's views).
People who put forward prosaic explanations for extraordinary claims are also sometimes characterised as misinformation agents, even when their 'sceptical' interpretation turns out to be credible and evidence-based.
(I think this unjust silliness has been applied to our host, Mick West, and at least one other Metabunker).

Luis Elizondo has a long track record in Ufology, and has consistently pushed for greater government disclosure about UFOs (though maybe the government doesn't have the information Luis seeks). Some of his claims (e.g. about AATIP and Project Stargate) are hard to verify and might seem unlikely, but I don't think he's working to anyone else's agenda, or seeking to undermine belief in UFOs etc.

External Quote:
Almost seems hard to believe some of these errors are unintentional...
Lots of books about UFOs, ancient astronauts, ESP and other reports of strange phenomena contain dubious claims, selective re-telling of accounts, serious scientific/ historical blunders, and sometimes just plain nonsense (think George Adamski,

External Quote:
In his 1955 book Inside the Space Ships, Adamski claimed that Orthon arranged for him to be taken on a trip to see the Solar System, including the planet Venus, the location where Orthon said the late Mrs. Adamski had been reincarnated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Adamski. He also "saw" a flourishing biosphere on the far side of the moon).

Only Luis Elizondo knows what Luis Elizondo believes, but his shaky theories and demonstrable mistakes aren't unusual in Ufology.
Doing a little nerd breakdown here, some terms to know-
Counterintelligence, Deception in Support of Operations Security, Strategic Deception, and Influence Operations (which for this reference will include "Psychological Operations" conducted by militaries). Then there's the MDM tag - mis (unknowing, unintentional), dis(knowing, intentional), and malinformation (real w/ manipulative intent).
I'll leave out a bigger wall on term misunderstandings.
So, when people talk about "disinformation agents" and how they act and the sort, they're generally making an operative reference to Influence Operations, rather than Counterintelligence and DISO.
The only public cases we have of Influence Operations intersecting with UAP topics, is as referenced here, cases where we supported and advised *foreign partners*, not about UAP specifically, but something more broader where it ends up a tangential interaction.

Now, we get into the other areas, where this sort of stuff does present more in factuality, and the public understands these terms even far less so it gets muddier in public reference.

We do, have a few counterintelligence oriented cases, such as the offensive counterintelligence effort Doty & co hosted against Bennewitz. Now, the crux issue with the Bennewitz part, he may have done a lot of that on his own under broader allowances. In the end, this was an offensive counterintelligence program. As part of this program, Doty made use of disinformation as a tool.

You also have DISO, which, we actually never really see referenced to term or reality, although makes up a lot of "deception" claims. When we talk about classified R&D programs and etc, a lot of them have defensive deception programs housed within them. Unlike other forms of deception, DISO does not have a refined singular target (like an adversarial military commander), instead, DISO targets sensors and sensory aides and respective users (so basically, deceiving against intelligence collection capabilities). This can become confusingly intertwined with offensive CI operations like Doty conducted. There are two other relevant terms here - Signature Management and Operations Security, although a little less relevant when talking about externally projected functions like "disinformation agents".

Now, we also have Strategic Deception. Strategic Deception splits into two forms, Political and Political-Military, "political" singular is kinda "everything else", not just political, but excludes military activities in support of it, it'd become Strategic Deception in military definition then. Just for side reference, the US does not conceptually recognize or house capabilities for "Strategic Deception" singularly, our only "Strategic Deception" is the Political-Military form, and references Strategic level military deception activities.
Anyways, when people talk about grand efforts to deceive populaces, to deceive adversaries about our tech on an actual strategic level (eg, lets purposely project false tech, to deceive adversaries - NOT to protect a program in place, eg, DISO).
The issue with these claims is, our country has very rarely practiced Political-Military Strategic Deception, the few times we have, it has been a side team part of some other effort that is paid lip service. For example, the "Star Wars" program under Reagen, while an entirely legitimate effort, did also house Strategic Deception elements. This was effective in happening but the way we conduct it, as a baseline, is horrid. The claims here fall out in reality, we do not have the capability to do any of that to claims, nor do we recognize the concept in that form.
Some of our adversaries do, and this form of presentation is also common in fiction. It does not, in reality, exist for the US.

"Disinformation" can be used within any of these, but actually having a "disinformation agent" is a kind of falsity. If someone is a recruited asset for Influence Activities of any sort, that is what they are used for, it is not disinformation specific. In fact, a common misunderstanding is that individuals and groups that participate in MDM creation and promotion, primarily do that - this is false. Pretty much every shop, even with our adversaries, that deals with creating and promoting MDM - they primarily create and promote truthful content, this provides the grounds for the MDM that is then later leveraged.

A lot of these claims also, when it's about practices and theory surrounding the concepts, tend to reference knowledge or concepts that've been surpassed for many generations. People still reference "hypnosis" techniques, as if anyone working legitimate Communication fields at all is doing hypnosis for comms in 2024 lol. Even later-odder studies like MKUltra were removed and entirely operated outside the context of Influence Activities, they were researched for the context of interrogations, not mass communications/influence.

Small other thing too: When speaking about these govt activities, they have their own special terming sequences and all, but at root, most of these are Communication fields that take much more integrative views with Social Sciences than exists with traditional public practices. So it's easier to suss out issues with claims like the above where people reference science or theories not at all held in these fields by actual practicioners currently, and you can indicate where they misperceived or paired things (eg, taking MKUltras research output and thinking it was for influence overall, eg, in the context of influence campaigns too - not influence in the context of cognitively influencing someone to enable easier interrogations, diff concepts).
 
The Alcubierre metric is quite a bit more complicated than shown in Elizondo's book.

Even if an Alcubierre-type drive were possible, it would seem to require an enormous amount of energy (and probably mass).

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But formulating this idea in the language of general relativity immediately gives rise to major practical problems. First, to deform spacetime so radically, you would need to cram a huge mass into a bubble bounded by a wall thinner than an atomic nucleus.
Star Trek's Warp Drive Leads to New Physics, Robert Gast & Spektrum, Scientific American 13 July 2021.

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But for a warp drive to generate enough negative energy, you would need a lot of matter. Alcubierre estimated that a warp drive with a 100-meter bubble would require the mass of the entire visible universe.
In 1999, physicist Chris Van Den Broeck showed that expanding the volume inside the bubble but keeping the surface area constant would reduce the energy requirements significantly, to just about the mass of the sun.
Warp drives: Physicists give chances of faster-than-light space travel a boost, Mario Borunda, The Conversation website 23 April 2021

(Notice how both passages start with a "But...").

Maybe it wouldn't be that difficult,
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Heisenberg [Lavinia Heisenberg, a professor of cosmology at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich- John J.] and her student Shaun Fell found Lentz's paper so exciting that they built on it by designing their own positive-energy warp bubbles that would require as little as a thousandth of the mass of our sun.
Scientific American as above;
the relevant paper is Positive Energy Warp Drive from Hidden Geometric Structures, Fell, S.DB., Heisenberg, L., 10 August 2021
https://arxiv.org/pdf/2104.06488 (PDF). I don't know if it has been published in a peer-reviewed journal.

The Sun is approx. 330,000 x more massive than Earth (Space.com, Sky & Telescope, Wikipedia) so if Heisenberg and Fell are right, Elizondo's saucer (if it is using an Alcubierre-type drive) need only be 330 times as massive as Earth.

Even so, this lightweight design might cause problems if it came anywhere near us (or entered the Solar System).

Elizondo fans will be reassured that the Fell/ Heisenberg paper contains graphics that implicitly support the use of lots of little arrows while discussing theoretical concepts (easier to see in the PDF),

p10 11ofpdf.JPG


From (numbered) pg. 10, pg. 11 of PDF, edited to only show the text for graphic 1e. (There is no descriptive text for 1f).


p14 15 of pdf.JPG

From (numbered) pg. 14, pg. 15 of PDF, edited to show only graphic 2e and its text.

I don't think that Fell and Heisenberg are necessarily saying the same thing as Elizondo, though.
In fairness to Luis, they might be, as I won't pretend to understand their paper (I've just counted, I got through the first 24 words of the paper's text before coming across a word I had to look up, "soliton". It didn't increase my understanding much).
 
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