Aviation fuel additives

Jim is just about like the average chemmie. He started out with some terribly bad information. Just like the sheople folks speak of, he bought into the movies and the hype. He went on a Quixotic crusade by building a website, just knowing "If I build it, they will come."

His field of dreams has turned into a nightmare.

After visiting here and having some discussions, he realized that he had been duped.

We've seen the denial, the anger, and now the bargaining.

Hope the depression doesn't last too long for you, Jim.

Good luck on that acceptance thingy.
 
Jim is just about like the average chemmie. He started out with some terribly bad information. Just like the sheople folks speak of, he bought into the movies and the hype. He went on a Quixotic crusade by building a website, just knowing "If I build it, they will come."

His field of dreams has turned into a nightmare.

After visiting here and having some discussions, he realized that he had been duped.

We've seen the denial, the anger, and now the bargaining.

Hope the depression doesn't last too long for you, Jim.

Good luck on that acceptance thingy.
Yep Jay thats the way to convince him ? Saul Alinsky tactics
[h=5]The rules[/h]
  1. “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."
  2. “Never go outside the expertise of your people.”
  3. “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.”
  4. “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
  5. “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
  6. “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.”
  7. “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.”
  8. “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.”
  9. “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.”
  10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition."
  11. “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.”
  12. “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”
  13. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
Content from External Source
 
Given the soundcloud full of immortal technique(i used to love this guy. still kinda sorta do once every few months, but with a whole bag of salt on my tongue), the pretty damn good photoshop/macromedia skill, 4chan/anon/lulsec/V iconography, moderate coding prowess, image heavy, analysis/info-light websites, dubstep, he appears very much like myself or my friends/roommates from several years ago. educated, skilled, un/underemployed, unchallenged, disenfranchised, seeking something, and willing to accept things you know are nonsensical for existential self gratification.

that may be a jab, i dont write it to be as such, just merely what i saw while briefly trying to find a picture of him in/near a car on the interwebs when i made that last post. I see alot of a former self in jim's non current chemtrail web presence.

then again i could be totally wrong.

----

from Facebook https://www.facebook.com/climateviewer/posts/504633672929486

And thanks for engaging with metabunk. It is showing most of them up quite clearly for what they are really about .... certainly not interested in getting to the truth, and they don't seem to get it that some people might actually care about the state of the environment we live in and how we leave it for future generations ... instead their agenda seems to be about cover-up, and trying (with increasing desperation, in your case!) to discredit anyone who is interested in finding out what really is going on. They have their uses though"




wait wtf, so now this whole time, all your websites, your pearltree, all that stuff, its all just about simple pollution problems? well fuck ive been awful confused now haven't i! or is it that you are employing a strategy of moving the goal posts in an attempt to publicly control the conversation to you benefit? Your many prior posts on this website would disagree with that statement of yours. i feel you are being VERY disingenuous to your fb followers by supporting that comment there..... they havent been listening to you as much/long as we have.

Edit Edit: i take issue with you "kill your tv" page being full of youtube links... as i dont click YT links for information, ever, i fail to see how tv and TY are different...
 
And thanks for engaging with metabunk. It is showing most of them up quite clearly for what they are really about .... certainly not interested in getting to the truth, and they don't seem to get it that some people might actually care about the state of the environment we live in and how we leave it for future generations ... instead their agenda seems to be about cover-up, and trying (with increasing desperation, in your case!) to discredit anyone who is interested in finding out what really is going on. They have their uses though"



What a load of horse crap. Show where something has been covered up, as opposed to trying to bring rational understanding to misunderstood phenomena.

You're the one whose interest is in covering up the truth, as you've put a lot of emotional investment, time and effort into pushing a vision of reality that fails again and again to hold up under considered analysis from much more informed minds than your fear-sodden brain. But it's slander in the name of a good cause right, so any means necessary huh.
 
Jim is just about like the average chemmie. He started out with some terribly bad information. Just like the sheople folks speak of, he bought into the movies and the hype. He went on a Quixotic crusade by building a website, just knowing "If I build it, they will come."

His field of dreams has turned into a nightmare.

After visiting here and having some discussions, he realized that he had been duped.

We've seen the denial, the anger, and now the bargaining.

Hope the depression doesn't last too long for you, Jim.

Good luck on that acceptance thingy.

I sleep well knowing I have my heart in the right place, and I try to self-censor when I make mistakes, as we all do, and you have previously seen. A couple of things I'ld like to address:

1. I made four websites, view the summation of their content and rethink that "average chemmie" insult. I got a 1 day ban (like I give a F) for calling Mick a liar, yet your scummy friends here can say/do whatever they like:
http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http...94608&set=oa.10152632762320302&type=1&theater

578462_10151365144294608_1896120588_n.jpg

Don't pretend to be Mr. Nice Guy whilst backhandedly insulting me. I hear from several sources now that you are a criminal, and I see you attacking these guys online and I've come to a single conclusion:
You all love Michael and act as his pit-bulls attacking "[chemtrailers]" while hoping to glean acceptance from him like some hungry pup trying to get the nipple.

2. My field of dreams is amazing

3. Why would I need to bargain with you? Your community "has it all figured out" and tows the old line "your government loves you, it can do no wrong." With the multitude of vast cover-ups in the history of the USA, how in the hell can any of you act like I am the paranoid one. I submit it's just you with your head in the sand. Here's just two of the most recent ones I've covered:





4. This thread is a testament to how little your community cares about anything other than winning an argument about the finer points of plane/water interactions, while ignoring and misleading people. I'll bet my left testicle then next guy who says "THERE'S BARIUM AND ALUMINUM IN THE CHEMTRAILS" will not get a response like "we know, it's in the IPCC reports back to the 90's /facepalm." Instead they will get responses like those seen earlier (and repeatedly even after i "set the record straight") which are misleading to put it a nice way. It's not up to you to claim that the amounts are so small I shouldn't even tell them the truth... the whole truth. Give them the facts, all the facts, not your varnished versions of it.

5. Nightmares, depression, bargaining.... precisely chosen words by a word bully. None of you scare me, and judging only the statements in this thread, you have no clue either WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY SPRAYING. You have no idea what additives are currently used, ever jet fuel MSDS says "we have no environmental safety data for this product" because companies don't want their secrets made public. None of you can tell me what is in the General Electric Betz SPEC-AID because two ingredients are TRADE SECRET.

You got it all figured out, I am still asking questions.
 
Yep Jay thats the way to convince him ? Saul Alinsky tactics
The rules


  1. “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."
  2. “Never go outside the expertise of your people.”
  3. “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.”
  4. “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
  5. “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
  6. “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.”
  7. “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.”
  8. “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.”
  9. “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.”
  10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition."
  11. “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.”
  12. “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”
  13. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
Content from External Source

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
--- Arthur Schopenhauer
Content from External Source
http://www.au.af.mil/info-ops/perception.htm

Isn't it odd: how I've posted item after item on this thread and none of it was debunked. Isn't it odd: how I have four websites and one lengthy article on chemtrails and suddenly I am to be discounted? I don't see debunking in this thread, I see dodging, word play, and self congratulatory statements when there should be none.
 
Given the soundcloud full of immortal technique(i used to love this guy. still kinda sorta do once every few months, but with a whole bag of salt on my tongue), the pretty damn good photoshop/macromedia skill, 4chan/anon/lulsec/V iconography, moderate coding prowess, image heavy, analysis/info-light websites, dubstep, he appears very much like myself or my friends/roommates from several years ago. educated, skilled, un/underemployed, unchallenged, disenfranchised, seeking something, and willing to accept things you know are nonsensical for existential self gratification.

that may be a jab, i dont write it to be as such, just merely what i saw while briefly trying to find a picture of him in/near a car on the interwebs when i made that last post. I see alot of a former self in jim's non current chemtrail web presence.

then again i could be totally wrong.

----

from Facebook https://www.facebook.com/climateviewer/posts/504633672929486

And thanks for engaging with metabunk. It is showing most of them up quite clearly for what they are really about .... certainly not interested in getting to the truth, and they don't seem to get it that some people might actually care about the state of the environment we live in and how we leave it for future generations ... instead their agenda seems to be about cover-up, and trying (with increasing desperation, in your case!) to discredit anyone who is interested in finding out what really is going on. They have their uses though"




wait wtf, so now this whole time, all your websites, your pearltree, all that stuff, its all just about simple pollution problems? well fuck ive been awful confused now haven't i! or is it that you are employing a strategy of moving the goal posts in an attempt to publicly control the conversation to you benefit? Your many prior posts on this website would disagree with that statement of yours. i feel you are being VERY disingenuous to your fb followers by supporting that comment there..... they havent been listening to you as much/long as we have.

Edit Edit: i take issue with you "kill your tv" page being full of youtube links... as i dont click YT links for information, ever, i fail to see how tv and TY are different...

1. thanks for the compliments, a rarity here.
2. nothing is simple, problems are complex and have many causal factors
3. yeah I hate embeds, will shorten all vids to a list, thanks for the criticism.
 
tows the old line "your government loves you, it can do no wrong."

Do quote some material to support that incorrect assertion.

The problem is that the people chasing paranoid fantasies are an obstacle to keeping the government in line. A good example is Greenpeace vs. Max Bliss. Nobody that is doing real environmental advocacy wants to be tainted. The polluters will latch on to the conspiracy theorist and hold them up as an example of environmentalists in general. I've had people in NE Florida show up at public hearings on fisheries issues to complain about the fact that the state wasn't doing anything about the fukushima radiation that made their cousin Eddie sick. All the water quality problems that we're dealing with right now with respect to our Tea Party legislature and Governor Skeletor Assclown gutting the Department of Environmental Protection and trying to re-write the standards so that degraded water can be declared "in compliance" and we actually have people coming to meeting worried about the St. Johns being contaminated with radiation from Fukushima (maybe they got such an idea from a website with really bold graphics).


With the multitude of vast cover-ups in the history of the USA, how in the hell can any of you act like I am the paranoid one.

Your Geoengineering Frankenstorm video might play a role. Taking photos of cirrus clouds and contrails around the periphery of a cyclone and insisting that "they" were spraying stuff that was going directing into the eye of the storm (when the cirrus clouds and anything in them actually flow away from a tropical cyclone) might appear paranoid.
I'll bet my left testicle then next guy who says "THERE'S BARIUM AND ALUMINUM IN THE CHEMTRAILS" will not get a response like "we know, it's in the IPCC reports back to the 90's /facepalm." Instead they will get responses like those seen earlier (and repeatedly even after i "set the record straight") which are misleading to put it a nice way. It's not up to you to claim that the amounts are so small I shouldn't even tell them the truth... the whole truth.

When you tell people that the stuff is being deliberately added for the purposes of weather control/modification even though you have no evidence of that then you are being misleading. Nothing posted here about concentrations of those substances in plane exhaust was incorrect.

and judging only the statements in this thread, you have no clue either WHAT IN THE WORLD ARE THEY SPRAYING. You have no idea what additives are currently used, ever jet fuel MSDS says "we have no environmental safety data for this product" because companies don't want their secrets made public.

I provided a link to a long and detailed pdf file that shows what's coming out the tail pipe. You can do the math to figure out how the concentrations of each translate into annual load in the atmosphere given the annual fuel consumption. Get back to us on how that compares to what's coming out the stack of power plants, industry, etc...

I can tell you this, given all the other sources of pollution around me, jet exhaust is pretty far down the list of stuff that I worry about. Only place I'd be worried would be if I lived very near and downwind of a very busy airport or if I worked on the ground crew and had to breath the stuff at close range day in and day out.
 
This thread hasn't been very substantive for the last page or so people. Bear in mind Jim's appears to be very sensitive to his handling here at Metabunk, and it's best if the thread doesn't degenerate into slanging or personal speculation.


All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
--- Arthur Schopenhauer
Content from External Source
http://www.au.af.mil/info-ops/perception.htm

Isn't it odd: how I've posted item after item on this thread and none of it was debunked. Isn't it odd: how I have four websites and one lengthy article on chemtrails and suddenly I am to be discounted? I don't see debunking in this thread, I see dodging, word play, and self congratulatory statements when there should be none.

You tend to tar everybody here with the same brush Jim.

It would help if you'd leave your inner Noam Chomsky at the door and keep your responses on topic, even if people are needling you. It doesn't help that you consider Metabunk threads as a kind of showpiece worth promoing on your social media, because I suspect it means you have to defend yourself more vigorously than otherwise you would.

Nobody is able to debunk the fact that aviation fuel is a source of air pollution. That's all I've gleaned from this thread so far. Was that your intention? Try not to automatically suggest I'm a narrow minded neo-con when answering this.

Finally, there are users here who believe they've debunked your claims in the past, and you believe they haven't. Stating and restating 'they haven't' is just going to rile people.
 
None of you can tell me what is in the General Electric Betz SPEC-AID because two ingredients are TRADE SECRET.

A trade secret is not a national security secret. The additive does nothing more than increase the high temperature performance of JP8.
 
4. This thread is a testament to how little your community cares about anything other than winning an argument about the finer points of plane/water interactions, while ignoring and misleading people. I'll bet my left testicle then next guy who says "THERE'S BARIUM AND ALUMINUM IN THE CHEMTRAILS" will not get a response like "we know, it's in the IPCC reports back to the 90's /facepalm." Instead they will get responses like those seen earlier (and repeatedly even after i "set the record straight") which are misleading to put it a nice way. It's not up to you to claim that the amounts are so small I shouldn't even tell them the truth... the whole truth. Give them the facts, all the facts, not your varnished versions of it.

The claim in my experience is that the 'chemtrails' are deliberately sprayed elements / chemicals, that this process is seperate to the content of the fuel, and for a nefarious purpose. There are evidently plenty of people who believe this and even wilder things about the contents of and reasons for what they perceive as chemtrails, and this is the prevalent thread in this meme, to my mind at least.

Don't you think that telling them the 'whole truth' in this context - "Chemtrails contain aluminium and barium," - is misjudging your audience's understanding of the matter and how they'll interpret your info, and that you're feeding a false premise as such?

The problem you run into here on MB is not that your data on aircraft fuel as a pollutant is necessarily wrong, but that chemtrails as a term has multiple definitions and the users here tend towards a different one than you seem to run with. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt in terms of cynical self promotion, I don't believe you don't know that you and the majority of believers aren't on the same page AT ALL with regards to the meaning of the word 'chemtrails', or that your work is being integrated into the wider culture based on a misinterpretation of your point.

I'd like to think your work has value, so why associate yourself with chemtrail conspiracy theory?
 
http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http...94608&set=oa.10152632762320302&type=1&theater

578462_10151365144294608_1896120588_n.jpg

Don't pretend to be Mr. Nice Guy whilst backhandedly insulting me. I hear from several sources now that you are a criminal, and I see you attacking these guys online and I've come to a single conclusion:

OK, this deserves some correction. It looks like you are saying that I have a Facebook account using the name jayuzi. Just because someone else with the name Jay who doesn't beleve in chemtrails posts something,you think that is me? Who told you that was me, Russ Tanner?

That is false. I have one facebook account under my own name. Show your evidence to the contrary or retract your claim about me.

You say you have heard that I am a criminal. That would mean that I either have been convicted of a crime in the past, which I have not,or that I am currently committing criminal acts. You base this on "several sources".
I say that those are outright boldface lies. I have absolutely NO criminal record of any kind. NONE. I work at a very responsible job as a professional US Coast Guard Licensed Chief Engineer which requires me to have an extensive FBI criminal background and security check as well as periodic random DOT drug testing. The safety of 100 people and over 50 million dollars of equipment is part of my personal responsibility. YOU are putting that in jeopardy.

Criminal background or drug use disqualifies me from that position, and now YOU have made that sort of accusation against me. I cannot allow or tolerate you to personally besmirch me in that way.

Now that YOU have made this accusation, I deserve a chance to see who is making these accusations, and what they are, because none of it is true.

Jim Lee, now that you have made serious accusations against me personally, explain why and what leads you to do so. This is a demand which I will repeat until I get satisfaction. To be accused of committing an illegal criminal act is a serious personal attack which I will not let pass.

Explain yourself. I DEMAND it.
 
4. This thread is a testament to how little your community cares about anything other than winning an argument about the finer points of plane/water interactions, while ignoring and misleading people. I'll bet my left testicle then next guy who says "THERE'S BARIUM AND ALUMINUM IN THE CHEMTRAILS" will not get a response like "we know, it's in the IPCC reports back to the 90's /facepalm." Instead they will get responses like those seen earlier (and repeatedly even after i "set the record straight") which are misleading to put it a nice way. It's not up to you to claim that the amounts are so small I shouldn't even tell them the truth... the whole truth. Give them the facts, all the facts, not your varnished versions of it.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick here Jim. I give not one hoot about winning arguments. I care only about the truth, and more specifically in getting closer to the truth by removing bunk.

Here's an article I wrote over two years ago, on what debunking is

https://www.metabunk.org/content/129-A-Guide-to-Debunking

And the first thing after the dictionary definition is:

Debunking is NOT about taking one side of an argument, and then using whatever means possible to convince someone that you are correct. A good debunker is a good scientist. If there’s information that contradicts your position, then don’t ignore it, instead you should alter your position.

It’s not us vs. them. Invite everyone to point out errors in your facts, or in your reasoning. Focus especially on facts. Ideally you would be able to present enough verifiable facts that any reasonable person would come to the right conclusion.
Content from External Source
And as for WHY I do it, I explain at length here:

https://www.metabunk.org/content/122-Why-Debunk

As far as I can tell, most of the debunkers here are nice ordinary people. Sometimes people come along who want to mock and denigrate, but I explain to them why that is a bad idea, and they either leave, get banned, or they agree to be nice. Words like "[chemtrailer]" are not allowed. I have a politeness policy, and I apply it much more strongly to the debunkers than to the believers.

I'm going to have to apply the politeness policy to you. Please stop with the personal attacks. They do not help your case at all.

And speaking of your case - you say you post a lot of things and none of them have been debunked. This is mostly true, because you are simply posting a lot of facts, and not really making any claims. Debunking is about identifying and exposing bunk. There's very little bunk in what you have posted in this thread - just a rather vague implication that there's too much pollution from jet planes, and maybe that there's some kind of cover up?

If you want things debunked, then you need to be very clear about what it is you are claiming. At its heart debunking is fact checking (and math checking, and logic checking). So why don't you start things out on a fresh foot by explaining what it is that you think needs debunking?
 
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Thank you Jim.

Clarity and detailed facts in this venue are a blast of fresh air. The blow back and attempts to classify ba and al as 'simply pollution' are to be expected. The information that you have provided is long over due in this place.

Nano metals and metals that are coated (kaboom!) have extremely intriguing effects in plasma applications.

So, since this is a truth seeking forum, who here has the scientific links to nano metals suitable for jet fuel and for applications of nano metals in plasma applications. I also think it is best to let Jay, Mick, Lotek, SR33 and the others get after it first.

Shalom Shabat !

Bryan
 

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Bryan, the chemtrail meme posits that aluminium and barium are ADDED to jet fuel for whatever nefarious purpose the believer currently has in vogue. The revelation that there is tiny trace amounts of these elements, and we are talking minuscule, which are naturally occurring, should not cause surprise to anyone, nor be any reason to suspect the meme is true, except by those who are desperate to find some back up for their beliefs.

The graph showing the breakdown of elements found in jet fuel also included uranium. Can we expect a new addition to the meme based on that bombshell?

You also appear to confuse trace elements, thinking it has something to do with nanotechnology?
 
Greetings Mick.

A real debunking requires 100% commitment to illuminating every single bit of data. This is a forum that gets after 95% of the issues and calls this good and well and 'scientific'.


“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.”
― Winston Churchil

“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld

“If you look for truth, you may find comfort in the end; if you look for comfort you will not get either comfort or truth only soft soap and wishful thinking to begin, and in the end, despair.”
― C.S. Lewis

“There's a world of difference between truth and facts. Facts can obscure truth.”
― Maya Angelou

“The truth doesn't always set you free; people prefer to believe prettier, neatley wrapped lies”
― Jodi Picoult,


“If the road is easy, you're likely going the wrong way.”
― Terry Goodkind

“All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”
― Arthur Schopenhauer.
Content from External Source
Re; weather modification, many here will eventually say 'I always knew'.

Bryan
 
Please use the reply with quote function if you're responding to somebody people, you can edit the quoted text down if it's excessively large.
 
A real debunking requires 100% commitment to illuminating every single bit of data. This is a forum that gets after 95% of the issues and calls this good and well and 'scientific'.

Lists of quotations and random images with no explanation of their relevance don't help the process either way.
 
Greetings Mick.
A real debunking requires 100% commitment to illuminating every single bit of data. This is a forum that gets after 95% of the issues and calls this good and well and 'scientific'.

100% of which issues? I mean we don't cover the ivory trade in much detail. Or just 100% of aviation fuel additives? Or 100% of pollution? Or 100% of speculative scalar engineering?
 
Greetings TWCobra,

Have you researched coated nano metals suitable for fuel applications?
Do nano sized metals have any unique properties when subjected to energy?
What are the chemistry changes that occur when metals photo-react in the atmosphere or are subjected to rf heating?

Have you studied plasma experiments that exploit metals?

How long do ultra fine metals stay aloft? Two days? A week? A year?

It doesn't matter what I think. What does the data show?

Hello Happy Monday. Suspended metals are not 'simply pollution', they are atmospherically reactive. Maybe Lotek can link us to the scientific literature.

Bryan

Everything must be taken into account. If the fact will not fit the theory---let the theory go." -Agatha Christie
 
Greetings TWCobra,

Hello Happy Monday. Suspended metals are not 'simply pollution', they are atmospherically reactive. Maybe Lotek can link us to the scientific literature.

I see, to further discuss this in detail you should start another thread, though I believe you may already have done so. We should try not to repeat the debate here.

However, I will ask how you believe this relates to chemtrail conspiracy theory historically? The people I've come across who have an interest in it have not generally been concerned with the atmospherically reactive properties of jet fuel emissions under RF heating or otherwise and, as I've suggested earlier in the thread, to me this focus is indicative of conspiracy theory's habit of evolving as it's original premises are discredited more generally.

Please try be specific rather than answering questions with questions or suggestions that people 'do their research' too, or at least offer some concrete links to the data for them to do so.
 
id please rather just stick with jim here bryan...

Jim, my compliments are only a part of that. im trying to identify with you because i really did feel alot like you on similar CT subjects several years ago, right up to the same music groups, iconography, and hobbies. i see that you are not stupid. you clearly have both technical and artistic talents. You have an obvious grasp of modern computer technology, and a much better than most ability with graphics and development software. Better than i ever got in that area.

This leads me to believe you do understand technology, systems, and science to some degree. one doesnt typically get into these hobbies without being an intelligent person with a particular skillset.

And i support your supposed position that pollution is a problem.

However, i must ask you to concede that you have recently switched your views to that. having been here long enough to be rather familiar with you, the position that "pollution causes climate change, climate change is a problem" has not been anything you have stood for here.

You state that the issues are very complex, and i wholeheartedly agree, but your very well produced imagery does nothing but over simplify and polarize.

Given your familiarity with graphic design this is a problem id assume you to be conscious of in your production, however it may be something you have overlooked. Your work glosses over any iota of disagreement presents vague possibility as fact, overstates minority opinion as consensus and in general appears to me as fear mongering. The fact that some of your work is satirical and intermixed into what you consider to be serious information, without obvious differentiation or labeling does not help this issue.

I get that you are not stupid. I understand that when you are posted information, sometimes you do read it, and when you do you understand a good portion of it, no different from any of the rest of us amateurs. However you seem to invalidate or overlook key bits of it to validate past beliefs of yours.

This is totally normal, most all people do it. it is an evolutionary benefit to survival, but given the nature of the information you have in interest in and your amount of exposure, i really wish you would try to be more conscious of it.

It seems obvious to me the pattern of what you over look. This may be a bold assumption, but i feel it is my place to make it because you seem to skip over things in the exact same pattern and for the very same reasons i used to. I draw this from your posting patterns, word usage, and obvious love of lulsec/anon iconography. As a kid who grew up on B, was around for the first public LOIC parties,took every anti-government stance i could, and had wet dreams about v for vendetta, i really feel i know where you are coming from. When i felt like this, i would very very often ignore things i now find obvious in order to find supporting information for things i felt.

Being an avid anon member, my fav conspiracies often involved IP rights, internet law, digital control, hacktivism, etc. Sad thing here is that those areas really ARE fucked up with revolving doors of lobbiests, warrentless actions, NSA letters, Patriot Act, SOPA, PIPA, XXXX-act, etc, all kinds of illegal(imho) shady shit who's ends may not justify the means. Then pile on RIAA/PMAA clusterfuck and you had me drooling with rage. This would naturally bleed over into military sort of CIA false flag libertarian conspiracy stuff because of what the patriot act meant to me, a kid who grew up under it from middle school forward. . of course none of that was justified, but it seemed to me that it was, by proxy. A cognitive bias called the halo effect if you wish to look it up.

This finally came to an absolute end when my friend group got into occupy/ pro-gaddafi lybia. They were just so obviously braindead, without direction lacking critical thinking and going nowhere it forced me to reevaluate my perspective on this. Now i see many of these things still as problems, and in the case of the digital law stuff, still shady, but i am very aware of cognitive biases, logical reasoning, and other things now which has allowed me to see most of these things for what they are, crappy solutions to crappy problems by crappy elected officials doing a crappy job. not some planed night op conspiracy.


hell, with immortal technique.. first i just ignored the religious/Jerusalem stuff. then i grew up a little and ignored that and the 911 stuff. Now i just listen to it from time to time for the stuff about the drug war and oppression in the 3rd world, intellectual property rights, and the fact he used the proceeds from his record sales to build a school in Afghanistan instead of a yatch and 30" rims. He really just seems kinda nutty to me now, but i used to chant the shit like gospel.


The whole point of my bullshit post about cars was to point out that the gas and metal emissions from the cars is VASTLY greater than that from planes, and that given a slant, anyone can outline a government conspiracy about anything, even the layout of roads.

You should be able to tell just from the volumes of fuel additives involved they are not a major source of pollution.

Many of us are short with you here jim, mick included, because of how long you have been coming here, posting something, dismissing everyone's posts, then claiming "See my proof was right!" only to walk off, publicly advertise your "proof", then to return with another bit of totally unrelated "data", pushing a slightly related or totally unrelated theory where the only connection is that the government is trying to get you. Often times the theory is perhaps even contradictory to the last several.

So maybe you can understand a little why some of us, myself most of the time too, are rather impatient with you. Does it show the worst side of us? probably yes, but we have shown your own good side countless times already, more than most users on a random internet forum. you are anon, you should be well aware of this...

Jim, i may have assumed a lot about you, and got some stuff wrong, but i really do wish to try to connect with you about this.
 
Hi Mick.

Why obfuscate ?

Spec aid and stadis ? Rf heating and how ionospheric transmitter patent claims match up well to demonstrated real world events as documented in scientific peer reviewed literature. Debunking Bernard based upon a lazy review?

If u have arrived at a fixed position or are firmly married to a paradigm, then you will not want to know about gravity waves or non linear effects of artificial plasmas. You will not be interested in the documentation that shows we are significantly altering the ionosphere or about documented pmwe artificial modification (which is neither a thought experiment or cloud seeding).

Eventually, current significant weather modification will come to light (undeniably so) at which point you will be able to say either 'I was wrong' or 'I always knew.' Right now, if you study interdisciplinary plasma physics and rf heaters, it is undeniable that we are geo tinkering and altering weather.

Attempting to explain the resistance to his ideas, Alfven pointed to the increasing specialization of science during this century. "We should remember that there was once a discipline called natural philosophy," he said in 1986. "Unfortunately, this discipline seems not to exist today. It has been renamed science, but science of today is in danger of losing much of the natural philosophy aspect." Among the causes of this transition, Alfven believed, are territorial dominance, greed, and fear of the unknown. "Scientists tend to resist interdisciplinary inquiries into their own territory. In many instances, such parochialism is founded on the fear that intrusion from other disciplines would compete unfairly for limited financial resources and thus diminish their own opportunity for research."
Content from External Source
from http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/cosmology/alfven.html

Alfven first suggested that electrified plasma might be scalar. It is not as 'out there' as you may imagine it to be.
 
Bryan, as per my post you referenced before, the post is noted as and should clearly read as a joke at how anything can be turned into a conspiracy when presented in a certain manner and avoiding deductive reasoning.

please make a new thread
 
I sleep well knowing I have my heart in the right place, and I try to self-censor when I make mistakes, as we all do, and you have previously seen. A couple of things I'ld like to address:

1. I made four websites, view the summation of their content and rethink that "average chemmie" insult. I got a 1 day ban (like I give a F) for calling Mick a liar, yet your scummy friends here can say/do whatever they like:
http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http...94608&set=oa.10152632762320302&type=1&theater

578462_10151365144294608_1896120588_n.jpg

Don't pretend to be Mr. Nice Guy whilst backhandedly insulting me. I hear from several sources now that you are a criminal, and I see you attacking these guys online and I've come to a single conclusion:
You all love Michael and act as his pit-bulls attacking "[chemtrailers]" while hoping to glean acceptance from him like some hungry pup trying to get the nipple.

Interesting you have a shot from Tanner there. I was discussing chemtrails on a friends page. The friend called in Tanner, who told my friend to ban me (from my FRIEND'S PAGE), and remove my posts, because they were disinfo. Tanner then went back to his hypochondriac/chemtrail circle jerk page Chemtrails Global Skywatch, and told his minions to all go to my friends page:

russ12.jpg

My friend deleted the thread, unfriended me and blocked me. Yeah, he's a real stand up guy. Stick with him.
 
Cairenn Day
What an interesting comment. We post FACTS backed up with SCIENCE, and you come here saying that we aren't interested in the TRUTH.

I have always cared about the environment, and all those that see 'monsters under the bed' do is to weaken the environmental movement. They make is a subject of ridicule and since many will equate your radical beliefs with those of others, you end up harming what claim to value.

Folks like those on metabunk, are there to keep all sides truthful. We make the environamental movement STRONGER.

What is wrong with discrediting misinformation? and those that post it and encourage it?

Climate Viewer 3D (CV3D)
Which is why Mick just banned me... so I can't respond. Mick also is removing/editing my posts... very shady stuff.

Cairenn Day
I have had him edit/remove some of mine, when I violated his policy. You were banned for violations, not because of what you posted.

Not shady at all. Don't try to 'play the victim'.
Content from External Source
 
hell, with immortal technique.. first i just ignored the religious/Jerusalem stuff. then i grew up a little and ignored that and the 911 stuff. Now i just listen to it from time to time for the stuff about the drug war and oppression in the 3rd world, intellectual property rights, and the fact he used the proceeds from his record sales to build a school in Afghanistan instead of a yatch and 30" rims. He really just seems kinda nutty to me now, but i used to chant the shit like gospel.

Amen. I had a similar, gradual backing off from Noam Chomsky's material (lectures by whom I've used as secret tracks for my own albums before now) as I learned to read it more critically.
 
It seems that Jim made on comment to me that he deleted, But it showed up in my email, anyway. This was on the same thread that I posted earlier.


Climate Viewer 3D (CV3D) also commented on their status.
Climate Viewer 3D (CV3D) wrote: "Tell Jay I said "suck my bawls""
Content from External Source
I think that says a lot about Jim.
 
OK, this deserves some correction. It looks like you are saying that I have a Facebook account using the name jayuzi. Just because someone else with the name Jay who doesn't beleve in chemtrails posts something,you think that is me? Who told you that was me, Russ Tanner?

That is false. I have one facebook account under my own name. Show your evidence to the contrary or retract your claim about me.

You say you have heard that I am a criminal. That would mean that I either have been convicted of a crime in the past, which I have not,or that I am currently committing criminal acts. You base this on "several sources".
I say that those are outright boldface lies. I have absolutely NO criminal record of any kind. NONE. I work at a very responsible job as a professional US Coast Guard Licensed Chief Engineer which requires me to have an extensive FBI criminal background and security check as well as periodic random DOT drug testing. The safety of 100 people and over 50 million dollars of equipment is part of my personal responsibility. YOU are putting that in jeopardy.

Criminal background or drug use disqualifies me from that position, and now YOU have made that sort of accusation against me. I cannot allow or tolerate you to personally besmirch me in that way.

Now that YOU have made this accusation, I deserve a chance to see who is making these accusations, and what they are, because none of it is true.

Jim Lee, now that you have made serious accusations against me personally, explain why and what leads you to do so. This is a demand which I will repeat until I get satisfaction. To be accused of committing an illegal criminal act is a serious personal attack which I will not let pass.

Explain yourself. I DEMAND it.

Jim, you need to explain yourself.

YOU have made a false personal accusation about my life. Be a man and name who is passing you these false rumors, and explain why you believed them. I don't care if you like me or not, but I deserve to face my accusers whom you have quoted.

What proof did they show? None.
Why spread rumors allegedly from others?
Why quote someone if you won't name them, and why not name them if you believed it true? Who is this that you are relying on for your ideas?
Who is controlling you, using you as their patsy?
Why did they send you here and not face me themselves?
Who are you working for, and why, why, why would you let yourself be used this way??

Don't run away from responsibility for your actions. Be a grown -up. I'm not forgetting this.
 
It seems that Jim made on comment to me that he deleted, But it showed up in my email, anyway. This was on the same thread that I posted earlier.


Climate Viewer 3D (CV3D) also commented on their status.
Climate Viewer 3D (CV3D) wrote: "Tell Jay I said "suck my bawls""
Content from External Source
I think that says a lot about Jim.

And the chemtrail believers always say we start with the personal attacks. This is typical, though. You try to reason with them and all of a sudden they snap and get nasty.
 
And the chemtrail believers always say we start with the personal attacks. This is typical, though. You try to reason with them and all of a sudden they snap and get nasty.

To those who don't want to hear it it seems that the skeptical voice is painful.
 
None of you can tell me what is in the General Electric Betz SPEC-AID because two ingredients are TRADE SECRET.

If you really wanted to know you would obtain some of of it and get it analysed for it's chemical constituents.

Why don' you do so?
 
This what? Seems like you are really veering off topic here Jim.

Please explain the point you are trying to make.
 
Well Mick, unlike you, I am a stickler for the facts.

Why then did you claim in your Frankenstorm video

"typical metal laden trails of aerosols being spread out vertically into the storm, on the west side of the storm so its pulled right into the eye...".

While you were showing a photo of cirrus clouds and embedded contrails. A stickler for facts would know that the cirrus clouds around a tropical cyclone flow away from the core of the storm.

Then at 50 minutes he says "It looks like they laden it with chemicals. They understand that this stuff affects it."...

The "chembows" you show look exactly like optical effects known to cirrus clouds since well before the industrial revolution.

Those don't strike me as very fact based assertions.
 
Jim, you need to explain yourself.

YOU have made a false personal accusation about my life. Be a man and name who is passing you these false rumors, and explain why you believed them. I don't care if you like me or not, but I deserve to face my accusers whom you have quoted.

What proof did they show? None.
Why spread rumors allegedly from others?
Why quote someone if you won't name them, and why not name them if you believed it true? Who is this that you are relying on for your ideas?
Who is controlling you, using you as their patsy?
Why did they send you here and not face me themselves?
Who are you working for, and why, why, why would you let yourself be used this way??

Don't run away from responsibility for your actions. Be a grown -up. I'm not forgetting this.

Jim, you made the claims about me personally. Be a man, don't run away.
A real man doesn't start rumors or pass them on.
I demand to know if you made this up yourself, or who is putting out these false rumors.
If there is substance, shw whatever they showed you otherwise retract your unsupported claims about me.
Jay
 

Yeah, not really seeing the point of photoshopping that one together? We had an argument on Twitter, which ended with me blocking you instead of continuing a pointless public row.

If the point is to link my profile here with my rap music, then you're aware there's already a thread here about my Chemtrails Debunked track, right? It's no secret, and perhaps you could find something in it you disagree with instead of attacking me personally?

EDIT - I'm assuming this is some retaliation for you having been 'stopped responding' here on Metabunk, as per the PM I've received from you in response to posting you an infraction for impoliteness the other day? Whatever you're referring to with that has nothing to do with me beyond posting you that infraction, so this churlishness represents what exactly? Way to look like a pro Jim!
 
Do you have a link for the study that says that "nanoparticles might be assimilated directly through the nasal mucous membrane and reach the brain."?
That's my question too.

There appears to be more than one person entirely unaware of what the purpose of mucous membranes is, and also how cell membranes are constructed. How sad.
 
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