Aviation fuel additives

rezn8d

Jim Lee
Can anyone provide me with a list of the following:
  1. Fuel types currently in use: Jet A, Jet B, JP-8, etc
  2. A full list of additives currently in those fuels (they have to be approved by someone right?)
  3. A list of other potential chemicals that have the possibility of ending up burnt in the exhaust (have read about lubricants ending up burnt)

Source: Operation Clarity

And: AMRL Evaluation of the JP-8+100 Jet Fuel Thermal Stability Additive

Image of SPEC×AID 8Q462 fuel additive MSDS with Trade Secret ingredient:

spec-aid-8q462-fuel-stabilizer.png

Is this additive still in use?

Also I have heard about DINNSA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinonylnaphthylsulfonic_acid

I am trying to figure out What in the World are they Adding... but am having trouble finding that out. Figured I would ask the experts.

Btw someone sent me the FunVax DoD fake vid, and thanks to your debunk on this forum, I gladly ignored the hell out of that video. Thanks =)
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
Please remit deposit of $300 for my research services on this matter.
Debunking free, truth will cost me?

Your inaction is either due to your assumption as to what I will do with this information or you don't know. If you can't list every chemical currently burnt in jet exhaust, then you too have no clue What in the World are they Spraying. lol
Either you are about the truth or not, and this is checkmate boys.

If you don't know, say so. If you do, spit it out. Or, look shadier than you already do by refusing to just tell the truth... what's in the gas?


"A Debunk can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Debunking free, truth will cost me?

Your inaction is either due to your assumption as to what I will do with this information or you don't know. If you can't list every chemical currently burnt in jet exhaust, then you too have no clue What in the World are they Spraying. lol
Either you are about the truth or not, and this is checkmate boys.

If you don't know, say so. If you do, spit it out. Or, look shadier than you already do by refusing to just tell the truth... what's in the gas?


"A Debunk can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain
No, just are just asking people to do research for you. Why on earth would you expect people here to know every single fuel additive?

And debunking IS truth, if done right.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
Debunking free, truth will cost me?

Your inaction is either due to your assumption as to what I will do with this information or you don't know. If you can't list every chemical currently burnt in jet exhaust, then you too have no clue What in the World are they Spraying. lol
Either you are about the truth or not, and this is checkmate boys.

If you don't know, say so. If you do, spit it out. Or, look shadier than you already do by refusing to just tell the truth... what's in the gas?


"A Debunk can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

That should start you off. It took 6 seconds to type jet fuel into Wikipedia.
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
No, just are just asking people to do research for you. Why on earth would you expect people here to know every single fuel additive?

And debunking IS truth, if done right.
I expect it because your crew happens to be the only group that I know of constantly attacking a community that's concerned about persistent contrails filled with trade secret chemicals.

I don't care if the additives add up to 0.1% of the chemicals present in exhaust... I just want to know what's in there, just like everyone else.

It is laughable that you have an entire website devoted to debunking chemtrails, a forum devoted to debunking chemtrails, yet you actually don't know what's in the gas either.
I don't believe you Mick. I think you do know, and everyone else in the community agrees. You are a talented liar of omissions...

Further, I am not asking you to research for me, as my timeline is almost complete. I simply requested additional info from a community devoted to "i know everything about jet exhaust" only to get "Why on earth would you expect people here to know every single fuel additive?"

Well Mick, unlike you, I am a stickler for the facts. In less than two weeks, I will have a complete list of fuel ingredients and additives from 1980-present, and the information will be public. I don't need your help, I was giving you one last chance to save face.
 

Landru

Moderator
Staff member
I expect it because your crew happens to be the only group that I know of constantly attacking a community that's concerned about persistent contrails filled with trade secret chemicals.

I don't care if the additives add up to 0.1% of the chemicals present in exhaust... I just want to know what's in there, just like everyone else.

It is laughable that you have an entire website devoted to debunking chemtrails, a forum devoted to debunking chemtrails, yet you actually don't know what's in the gas either.
I don't believe you Mick. I think you do know, and everyone else in the community agrees. You are a talented liar of omissions...

Further, I am not asking you to research for me, as my timeline is almost complete. I simply requested additional info from a community devoted to "i know everything about jet exhaust" only to get "Why on earth would you expect people here to know every single fuel additive?"

Well Mick, unlike you, I am a stickler for the facts. In less than two weeks, I will have a complete list of fuel ingredients and additives from 1980-present, and the information will be public. I don't need your help, I was giving you one last chance to save face.
There is a theory that the lines we see in the sky are either contrails, which dissipate quickly, or chemtrails, which persist. Most of us think that theory is bunk and therefore we debunk it. No one doubts that jet exhaust has pollutants which are a byproduct of burning jet fuel. Most of us do not believe that we are being deliberately sprayed.
 

F4Jock

Active Member
I expect it because your crew happens to be the only group that I know of constantly attacking a community that's concerned about persistent contrails filled with trade secret chemicals.

I don't care if the additives add up to 0.1% of the chemicals present in exhaust... I just want to know what's in there, just like everyone else.

It is laughable that you have an entire website devoted to debunking chemtrails, a forum devoted to debunking chemtrails, yet you actually don't know what's in the gas either.
I don't believe you Mick. I think you do know, and everyone else in the community agrees. You are a talented liar of omissions...

Further, I am not asking you to research for me, as my timeline is almost complete. I simply requested additional info from a community devoted to "i know everything about jet exhaust" only to get "Why on earth would you expect people here to know every single fuel additive?"

Well Mick, unlike you, I am a stickler for the facts. In less than two weeks, I will have a complete list of fuel ingredients and additives from 1980-present, and the information will be public. I don't need your help, I was giving you one last chance to save face.
Can"t wait to see it!! Please be sure to start a new thread appropriately titled so we don't miss it!

Will it include the "trade secret chemicals?"
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member
You still won't know Jim, unless you sample the fuel itself maybe 10 times at 10 locations using documented lab tests with a chain of custody. That will cost you money, but chemtrails advocates like Michael J. Murphy make money off the hoax every day. You should ask him. He already made a movie about it!
 

lotek

Active Member
just because it isnt posted public doesnt mean it isnt know.
just because it isnt posted public doesnt mean it isnt safe
just because it isnt posted public doesnt mean you cant find out
just because it isnt posted public doesnt mean it isnt studied
just because it isnt posted public doesnt mean its being covered up

Youd have a moderately hard time finding out whats even in household cleaners from a chemical standpoint. msds/epa/safety data is openly out there, but IUPAC names, ratios, and formulations, forget it. does that mean that gorilla glue is part of a UN conspiracy to kill babies?

I would go into the list of reasons why, as i am very familiar with them being an avid amateur/home chemist, but i foresee only descent. Suffice to say its simply because anyone who really needs to know will have to tools to find out, and if you dont, you prolly dont need to know, and want to know for nefarious reasons. as has been shown, for $50 you can get a whole book of em, if thats too serious of a requirement for you, you prolly have no valid reason to know whats in it.

This problem plagued me when i was younger before i started buying chemicals from suppliers and learned how to properly source pure/technical grade chemicals OTC. it took me 3 weeks to find H2SO4 to make TNP from asprin when i was 12 because it was never on the label, only "ABCcleaner super200 20% concentrate" or some needlessly vague line. turns out the stuff i used had buffers in it(was also pitch black >.<) which decomposed at nitration temp leading to a run away that turned rather violent! So i slowed down, read a whole lot more, and learned better what i was doing and how to do it right.

Lastly as per the one you did mention, i dont see how you can pick on something that is added to a flammable liquid that is handled around ppl for its antistatic effects...
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
[h=1]Air Pollution in Airports[/h]
http://www.winkas.dk/wkwebshop/varedetaljer.asp?shopid=851152&funique=210&kat&hkat&varegruppe

Air Pollution in Airports.png
PDF: http://www.ecocouncil.dk/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=990&Itemid=990

Chemtrails, Carcinogens, and guys like you that say none of this matters.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member
And there is a warning for silicosis on a box of ceramic tile. Does that mean that that the lady who was my ER nurse the other night, who had just finished laying her last tile is going to come down with it?
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
And there is a warning for silicosis on a box of ceramic tile. Does that mean that that the lady who was my ER nurse the other night, who had just finished laying her last tile is going to come down with it?
/facepalm

 

Cairenn

Senior Member
I was trying to point out the difference in someone that WORKS in a field and those that only have a casual exposure to it.

Do you have a link for the study that says that "nanoparticles might be assimilated directly through the nasal mucous membrane and reach the brain." ?
 

TWCobra

Senior Member
I expect it because your crew happens to be the only group that I know of constantly attacking a community that's concerned about persistent contrails filled with trade secret chemicals.
Last I looked, your community was concerned about contrails filled with aluminium, barium and strontium... none of which are added to jet fuel. The trade secrets will be very small proportions of chemicals designed to reduce the freezing point, increase the lubricity or reduce the amount of coking and other deposits in the fuel.
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
Last I looked, your community was concerned about contrails filled with aluminium, barium and strontium... none of which are added to jet fuel. The trade secrets will be very small proportions of chemicals designed to reduce the freezing point, increase the lubricity or reduce the amount of coking and other deposits in the fuel.
You guys are a community. I, Jim Lee, an individual person, interested in pollution, and have little care for the conspiracies. I am not a "chemtrail conspiracy" afficianado.

aluminum and barium are in the exhaust per IPCC reports...

IPCC Special Reports on Climate Change - Complete online versions
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Aviation and the Global Atmosphere[/FONT]

3.2.3. Soot and Metal Particles



You were saying? For those who don't know, Al is aluminum and Ba is barium.

Barium is from additives like DINNSA among others...


Not surprisingly, UNEP (United Nations Environment Programme) only makes casual mention of these metal particles, and fails to provide any information as to their role in atmospheric aerosol formation. source

King Industries committed two sponsoring four chemicals as part of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) High Production Volume (HPV) Challenge Program. These chemicals include diisononylnaphthalene (CAS No. 63512-64-1); dinonylnaphthalene sulfonic acid (CAS No. 25322-17-2); dinonylnaphthalene sulfonic acid, calcium salt (CAS. 57855-77-3); dinonylnaphthalene and sulfonic acid , barium salt (CAS. 25619-56-1). As part of King Industries‘ commitment, Exponent has assembled available data and prepared a test plan to Develop additional screening level data on human health effects, environmental fate and effects, and physicochemical properties of the dinonylnaphthalene category.


 
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rezn8d

Jim Lee
I was trying to point out the difference in someone that WORKS in a field and those that only have a casual exposure to it.

Do you have a link for the study that says that "nanoparticles might be assimilated directly through the nasal mucous membrane and reach the brain." ?
Yes, 2010
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-211-98811-4_65


Nanoparticles causing brain swelling due to transmission through the brain's protective shield. Aluminum and Silver are listed. Wright-Patterson is a member of the Weather Modification Association. Silver Iodide is the preferred cloud-seeding agent in America. Are they testing the safety of inhalation of silver nanoparticles? Yes.

http://www.weathermodification.org/corporateroster.php





 
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George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Yes, 2010
http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-211-98811-4_65


Nanoparticles causing brain swelling due to transmission through the brain's protective shield. Aluminum and Silver are listed. Wright-Patterson is a member of the Weather Modification Association. Silver Iodide is the preferred cloud-seeding agent in America. Are they testing the safety of inhalation of silver nanoparticles? Yes.

http://www.weathermodification.org/corporateroster.php





Interesting. . . .does anyone know the concentration threshold for damage to humans and animals and does anyone know the tonnage dispersed by weather modification and commercial aviation?
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You guys are a community. I, Jim Lee, an individual person, interested in pollution, and have little care for the conspiracies. I am not a "chemtrail conspiracy" afficianado."
Unfortunately though, the chemtrail community seems not to have realized that:

http://aircrap.org/truther-girls-and-jim-lee-radio-interview-chemtrails-haarp-and-geoengineering/336509/
Regardless, why are you posting this here? Are you suggesting there's a link behind additives and persistent contrails? Any evidence?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Interesting. . . .does anyone know the concentration threshold for damage to humans and animals and does anyone know the tonnage dispersed by weather modification and commercial aviation?
Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding#Impact_on_environment_and_health

 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding#Impact_on_environment_and_health

Hmmm . . . Thanks Mick . . .I had read that before but still wondered if Jim Lee had a different set of data or approach . . .
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
Unfortunately though, the chemtrail community seems not to have realized that:

http://aircrap.org/truther-girls-and-jim-lee-radio-interview-chemtrails-haarp-and-geoengineering/336509/
Regardless, why are you posting this here? Are you suggesting there's a link behind additives and persistent contrails? Any evidence?
I am only interested in the effects of aviation pollution on ocean acidification due to acid rain, effects of black carbon deposists on warming the artic due to melting polar ice from "black highways," and the effects of global aerosol pollution on human health.

I'm interested in pollution, not the finer points of how man-made clouds are formed.
I leave that to the AMS and Weather Modification Association.
http://annual.ametsoc.org/2013/index.cfm/programs-and-events/conferences-and-symposia/19th-conference-on-planned-and-inadvertent-weather-modification/
 

rezn8d

Jim Lee
Interesting. . . .does anyone know the concentration threshold for damage to humans and animals and does anyone know the tonnage dispersed by weather modification and commercial aviation?

http://rezn8d.net/2013/03/23/operation-clarity-the-end-of-chemtrails/
600 million tons of CO2, how many tons of aluminum, barium, and other nanoparticles per year? Unknown.

Ignore Mick attempting to simplify this to my comment about silver iodide. This is an attempt to divert the conversation.
 
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George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
http://rezn8d.net/2013/03/23/operation-clarity-the-end-of-chemtrails/
600 million tons of CO2, how many tons of aluminum, barium, and other nanoparticles per year? Unknown.

Ignore Mick attempting to simplify this to my comment about silver iodide. This is an attempt to divert the conversation.
No doubt the tonnage from an aircraft is significant and much of it above 30,000 feet but how does it compare with 300 automobiles going from NYC to LA and back?
 
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Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
http://rezn8d.net/2013/03/23/operation-clarity-the-end-of-chemtrails/

600 million tons of CO2, how many tons of aluminum, barium, and other nanoparticles per year? Unknown.

Ignore Mick attempting to simplify this to my comment about silver iodide. This is an attempt to divert the conversation.
Er, no it's not.

What goes in must come out. you get 600 million tons of CO2 because that's the primary product of combustion. The emission from jet engine are, at an elemental level, about 99.9% the hydrogen and carbon in the fuel combined with the oxygen in the air.

So the emissions of aluminum, etc, can be calculated for the amount of aluminum, etc, in the fuel. And basically it's trace amounts, measured in parts per billion.

Vastly less than emission from industry.

And any combustion produces nanoparticles of trace elements. When you burn a candle you are producing nanoparticles of metals. You need to look at all these amounts in context.
 

JRBids

Senior Member
Air Pollution in Airports

http://www.winkas.dk/wkwebshop/varedetaljer.asp?shopid=851152&funique=210&kat&hkat&varegruppe

View attachment 2528
PDF: http://www.ecocouncil.dk/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=990&Itemid=990

Chemtrails, Carcinogens, and guys like you that say none of this matters.

I thought you were talking about planes spraying chemicals (chemtrails) and the purpose was global warming? Is it global warming or carcinogens? Is it chemicals added to exhaust intentionally in order to change the weather/make us sick or is it air pollution you are talking about now, like what comes from car exhaust?
 

JRBids

Senior Member
600 million tons of CO2, how many tons of aluminum, barium, and other nanoparticles per year? Unknown.

Ignore Mick attempting to simplify this to my comment about silver iodide. This is an attempt to divert the conversation.
THen you ARE talking about chemtrails! Do you have proof that barium and aluminum are added to fuel or sprayed from tanks?
 

scombrid

Senior Member
What goes in must come out. you get 600 million tons of CO2 because that's the primary product of combustion. The emission from jet engine are, at an elemental level, about 99.9% the hydrogen and carbon in the fuel combined with the oxygen in the air.

So the emissions of aluminum, etc, can be calculated for the amount of aluminum, etc, in the fuel. And basically it's trace amounts, measured in parts per billion.

Vastly less than emission from industry.

And any combustion produces nanoparticles of trace elements. When you burn a candle you are producing nanoparticles of metals. You need to look at all these amounts in context.
This.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I mean in this thread. I know he's got a wide variety of theories elsewhere (at least implied theories).

Jim, maybe you could clarify?
 

scombrid

Senior Member
Skip to 48:24 in the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWSZxtGlseI

He calls the cirrostratus clouds and contrails "chemtrails".

At 49:06 he refers to the contrails as "typical metal laden trails of aerosols being spread out vertically into the storm, on the west side of the storm so its pulled right into the eye...".

Then at 50 minutes he says "It looks like they laden it with chemicals. They understand that this stuff affects it."...

That certainly looks to me like he thinks stuff is being sprayed deliberately.

I too would like him to clarify whether he is merely interested in pollution as a byproduct of aviation or if he thinks the pollution is a by-product of stuff added to aviation fuel for non-aviation purposes. I do not have that impression from his videos.

Oh, and by the way, the cirrus clouds at the tropopause around the periphery of tropical cyclones are known as "outflow" cirrus. They are part of air flowing away from the convection at the core of the storm. Air flows toward the cyclone at the surface and away from it aloft such that you have cyclonic flow at the surface and anti-cyclonic flow aloft. Anything coming from an airplane in that layer, contrails or otherwise, flow away from the storm. Additionally, contails are going to form and persist in that environment irrespective of fuel additives.
 
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