Pete Tar
Senior Member.
A Machiavellian ploy to manipulate a plastic victory.
Oh well, whatever. He'll get his hollow fame.
Aviation fuel additives
- Thread starter rezn8d
- Start date
A Machiavellian ploy to manipulate a plastic victory.
Oh well, whatever. He'll get his hollow fame.
Jazzy
Closed Account
They all burn beautifully, subject to the same rules as for kerosine:
I think it's possible to see how small any Stadis residue will be. No more than the kerosine it replaces.
Less than indicated here, as this diagram is 20 yrs old, and engines have moved on. The only thing it might do is raise the sulfur dioxide emission by 0.000x per cent, as there is fractional percentage of sulfur in aviation spirit to begin with.
Does anyone know exactly what proportion is used of Stadis to aviation spirit? (I'd guess about 1 : 2000).
Isn't it only used in hot dry conditions? Deserts and such? Doesn't the static-reducing humidity of temperate-to-cool regions rule out the need for it? Have I missed that?
Jazzy
Closed Account
It's exactly the same strategy as the previous, er, wossname.
We ought to be able to see them coming, and prevent them from self-extracting themselves without damaging their standing, at least. That's what they're using us to try to build.
These people are truly [....]y. Oh, f[..]k.
Actually there is something we can do. Agree among ourselves for one person at a time to ask the first pertinent question and not allow ourselves to be distracted from receiving an answer.
Stick to not just the ONE topic, but just the SINGLE QUESTION.
And keep demanding a satisfactory answer to it, before we move on further. As Mick says.
When confronted with such an alien and systematic approach, it's our self-discipline that is called to question. Even more so if such guys team up.
Trigger Hippie
Senior Member.
I found this in a quick search... Stadis 450 Max 3 mg/L for aviation turbine fuel.
I really wish I had more time for debunking... "I don't wanna work, I just want to bang on the drum all day."
Jazzy
Closed Account
OK. 0.003 grams is 0.000003 Kg. A litre of avgas weighs 0.8 Kg, so 0.8/0.000003 makes the proportion 1 : 267,000.
LOL. Not a very good guess of mine, was it?
That's what I do. Be jealous.
scombrid
Senior Member.
He posted a link to his facebook today that says:
World's top geoengineers discussing my Weather Control timeline!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!s...ntrol/geoengineering/h6yLe4D3AXk/LsPefgNrrIYJ
His introductory post that start the thread:
There was a favorable reception with some constructive criticism about how to beef it up with peer review content and refine the distinction between weather modification and geoengineering. They were taking him seriously and were fairly complementary.
But then Ken Caldiera made the comment:
Jim then just launched into it:
With his usual copy/paste and link dump gish gallop.
That ended the thread. He probably takes that as a victory.
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
JRBids
Senior Member.
http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/05...ives-and-contrails-pollute-global-atmosphere/
"Aviation fuels contain additives with “trade secret” ingredients. "
"Aviation fuels contain additives with “trade secret” ingredients. "
MikeC
Closed Account
From that site:
Seems to be out of date - the latest MSDS for Stadis 450 lists no secret ingredients - perhaps you could get them to update their obsolete information?Octel Starreon Stadis® 450 is a static dissipator, comprised of dinonylnapthalene sulfonic acid and other organic solvents, and according to the product MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet), it contains two “trade secret” ingredients [18]. Stadis 450 is the only approved anti-static additive for use in Air Force aviation fuels, including JP-8, JP-5, JET-A1, and JET-B [9].
J
Joe
Guest
Hmm its pretty dry today and there are a few persistent contrails ? no weather fronts ? Weather ReportHome » Local » Weather Report
Vero Beach, Florida
Weather Report | Interactive Weather Map | Extended Forecast | Hourly Forecast | Past Observations | Historic Averages |
Current Conditions - °F | °C
As of 12:53 PM on Wednesday 15 May 2013 (Local Time) from KVRB Reporting Station
Vero Beach, Florida
Weather Report | Interactive Weather Map | Extended Forecast | Hourly Forecast | Past Observations | Historic Averages |
Current Conditions - °F | °C
As of 12:53 PM on Wednesday 15 May 2013 (Local Time) from KVRB Reporting Station
|
| Local Information | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| View Detailed Observations for the last 48 Hours · 14 Days | View Complete Hourly Forecast » | Radar · Satellite · Surface Analysis |
Last edited by a moderator:
scombrid
Senior Member.
Hmm its pretty dry today and there are a few persistent contrails ? no weather fronts ? Weather ReportHome » Local » Weather Report
Vero Beach, Florida
Weather Report | Interactive Weather Map | Extended Forecast | Hourly Forecast | Past Observations | Historic Averages |
Current Conditions - °F | °C
As of 12:53 PM on Wednesday 15 May 2013 (Local Time) from KVRB Reporting Station
Few Clouds
79°F
Feels Like: 80°
Wind Chill:
79°
Ceiling:
Unl
Heat Index:
80°
Visibility:
10mi
Dew Point:
62°
Wind:
13mph
Humidity:
56%
Direction:
40° (NE)
Pressure:
30.22"
Gusts:
NA
Report Text: KVRB 151653Z 04011KT 10SM FEW040 26/17 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP233 T02610167
2 PM
P Cloudy
80°
3 PM
P Cloudy
80°
4 PM
M Sunny
79°
Local InformationView Detailed Observations for the last
48 Hours · 14 Days
View Complete Hourly Forecast »
Radar · Satellite · Surface Analysis
Well drive on down to Miami and hop a flight to Houston and sample the bleed air in the cabin while you're passing through (and making new) trails over the Gulf of Mexico (trails that are visible on the GoMEX visible loop drifting rapidly toward Florida right now).
Last edited by a moderator:
J
Joe
Guest
There are no trails drifting they are being formed . No fronts low humidity and 30 mile long contrails at least with no breaks yet many aircraft no trails at all ?
Pete
Member
I thought the chemtrail believers said there were 'spray planes' with tanks and nozzles... So why would it be in the jet fuel?
And if it is in the jet fuel, then just buy some jet fuel? No? Or get friendly with someone who works as ground-crew in an airport and he can sample some of the spilt fuel (of which there is a lot!) and it can be tested. Jesus.
And if it is in the jet fuel, then just buy some jet fuel? No? Or get friendly with someone who works as ground-crew in an airport and he can sample some of the spilt fuel (of which there is a lot!) and it can be tested. Jesus.
justanairlinepilot
Senior Member.
If I was looking for subject matter to complete a doctoral dissertation for psychology, I'd pick Jim...and the chemtrail community.
This thread is all over the map!
This thread is all over the map!
Jazzy
Closed Account
You would be if
a) you didn't understand altitude
b) you didn't understand perspective
c) you didn't understand how aircraft engines work
d) you didn't understand how aircraft fly
e) you haven't the faintest clue what clouds are made of
I'm tired now...
Jazzy
Closed Account
Perhaps he's taking instruction from Woody, and just too busy.
J
Joe
Guest
No I read it . and I will read all of it tonight .
J
Joe
Guest
Look Like ? Or act Like ? Stubborn me ? Maybe? but not blind to the truth . Its been a year for me on this form and nobody has successfully convinced me otherwise . I have learned quite a bit but still have my own opinion on what I believe . Its actually 150 pages so not done yet . It will take me a few days with my busy workload .
J
Joe
Guest
On geoengineering . whether or not it is happening . Thats pretty much my Only so called conspiracy . IMO of course
TWCobra
Senior Member.
OK. 0.003 grams is 0.000003 Kg. A litre of avgas weighs 0.8 Kg, so 0.8/0.000003 makes the proportion 1 : 267,000.
That's what I do. Be jealous.
an interesting post by Matt McInnes at Australians against chemtrails. The ballast tanks on aircraft photos are now disinformation. He knows what they are really for and pours scorn on some usual suspects like Madison Moonstar.. ( not that that is difficult).
i don't think he has read this thread though.... Because he has made a fool of himself yet again.
A timely reminder about disinformation concerning chemtrails on the internet. Please 'like' this so more people read it, and hopefully get the message once and for all.
A number of photos still circulate the internet, particularly on Facebook, of plane refueling and ballast systems, purported to be "chemtrail tanks". This is an internet myth originally put out by unscrupulous people who want to paint activists as uneducated, and thus dismiss the overwhelming evidence that geoengineering, weather control and chemtrail agendas are scientific and historical fact. These ballast systems are for testing the weight/balance of planes. Using such photos as "evidence of chemtrails" continues to do a great disservice to activists, as they are easily proven as part of the regular testing regime of aircraft. Disinfo artists and internet fools such as 'Madistonstar Moon' who have apparently no formal education whatsoever and just "make stuff up" should be called out for what they are.
Let me briefly explain the modern methods of chemtrails, that are factually supported, and why I believe separated tanks to be unnecessary, and even hazardous and a "dead giveaway", to the point where it should be considered they are no longer commonly used at all.
Modern chemtrails in DOMESTIC craft are more than likely achieved through the JP-8 jet fuel additive Stadis 450. There are several other variations also. Many safety sheets from the aviation industry will not include that it is, in fact, barium salt.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/139917532/Stadis-450-DINNSA-Barium-Salt-Aviation-Fuel-Additive <- right there in black and white for you guys. Fuel tanks (types) may be changed at altitude. Also search "biofuel alumina nanoparticle" which is unfortunately what we are heading towards. When a flight climbs above around, let's say 31,000ft, there is always condensation (even though you can't see it) whereby the oxidation (burning of fuel) will produce a thicker chemtrail (due to additives) for whatever purpose (SRM, conductivity) due to the specific properties of the aerosols (Föppl et al., 1966; Prenatt et al., 1969; Lüst, 2002).
MILITARY craft only need an oxidation disk at point of combustion as you see in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrvK30Gzh_0 . <- single or twin jet engine system. These craft do not have the sufficient space that would allow for extra tanks.
Military craft more than likely use outlets for a full wing spray via oxidation disks. They may even still use tanks in some older models, which has been evidenced recently by military whistleblowers in the United States, and may also be the case in the planes that C.A.S.A. refuse to identify here, some of which appear to be decommissioned airliners and former active-duty military planes.
Regardless, evidence shows that no tanks are needed. Patents demonstrate this, with the more recent patents not mentioning tanks at all. This explains why domestic pilots and service crews in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and other places have investigated their planes and found no tanks following the beginning of the modern chemtrail phenomenon. The pilots who could not account for the massive plumes now trailing for hundreds of kilometres behind their craft, and yet have been unable to locate the tanks and ducted systems required, a "dead giveaway", now have a much more simple and scientifically parsimonious explanation to investigate. I encourage everyone involved to continue researching these avenues further and sharing facts rather than hearsay and falsehoods.
Matt
Awake Australia & Australians Against Chemtrails
14Share
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
Can the first appearance of this photo used as chemtrail evidence be traced?This is an internet myth originally put out by unscrupulous people who want to paint activists as uneducated,...
What's the bet it was an uneducated activist and not an unscrupulous double agent.
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
William Thomas has admitted he was wrong to claim ethylene dibromide is part of jet fuel. He also claims to have done a lab analysis of jet fuel, but has never shown the results.
You folks asking here about what is in jet fuel should hold your own people accountable. You could even say that William Thomas is guilty of a conspiracy to withhold information from you, because he made these claims for a very long time, and has withheld this lab analysis from you for well over a decade.
Who will stand up for the truth among you chemtrails advocates besides me in calling for Thomas to release everything he has claimed to have?
That would include his claim to have "hundreds" of photo-identifiable USAF tankers spraying out of their tail booms, many more lab analyses, and the identity of multiple air traffic controllers who could testify about chemtrails. If all of this were true, why has Thomas kept his vital information about an alleged "Crime Against Humanity" under wraps for well over a decade?
A. He is making stuff up.
B. He has exaggerrated in some way.
C. He is part of the problem.
link to his admissions:
https://www.metabunk.org/posts/46652
You folks asking here about what is in jet fuel should hold your own people accountable. You could even say that William Thomas is guilty of a conspiracy to withhold information from you, because he made these claims for a very long time, and has withheld this lab analysis from you for well over a decade.
Who will stand up for the truth among you chemtrails advocates besides me in calling for Thomas to release everything he has claimed to have?
That would include his claim to have "hundreds" of photo-identifiable USAF tankers spraying out of their tail booms, many more lab analyses, and the identity of multiple air traffic controllers who could testify about chemtrails. If all of this were true, why has Thomas kept his vital information about an alleged "Crime Against Humanity" under wraps for well over a decade?
A. He is making stuff up.
B. He has exaggerrated in some way.
C. He is part of the problem.
link to his admissions:
https://www.metabunk.org/posts/46652
Last edited by a moderator:
Jazzy
Closed Account
That had better be a nervous laugh.
Jay Uzi
New Member
Well I'm really not sure if I'm flattered or not. But I was definitely being an asshole.
I told him that I confessed to being a govt employee and that I was going to "spray the fuck out of Bangor Maine tomorrow " - Ha accused me of being one of "Mick West's cronies", selectively deleted my posts and blocked me ... So I looked up Mick and signed up here.
Great page, but why it so bad on mobile? It's really slow.
Last edited:
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
Jay Uzi, Russ Tanner has also claimed you and I are the same person. I guess we both give them fits......
HappyMonday
Moderator
A hollow propaganda victory for the believers in the end, to my mind.
Those incorrectly attributed comments now have a life of their own, and are touted around the chemtrails believers online in an attempt to discredit both Metabunk generally and some users specifically, used to confirm the bias of those who've fallen for the hoax who might otherwise use this website to learn some facts.
Just goes to show the unintended consequences of trolling, sadly. It pays to be careful with those who've bought into these kind of theories.
Last edited:
Jazzy
Closed Account
There used to be a YT website called JazzrocIsASpook claiming me to be a team of dozens of people. It was populated by dozens of the deluded. They rummaged through my writings looking for confirmation of their delusion. They apparently found it. That was five years ago. The site is empty now. I am a single individual, slightly more wrinkled these days. Alzheimers hasn't yet set in.
I still live in the same address. My old friends still exist in England. I still miss them. I only pick up news second-hand. My old dog has just died. My cat still bites me on a daily basis. I drink slightly less beer than I used to, but it still has the same effect. One of the few benefits of advancing years.
I still live in the same address. My old friends still exist in England. I still miss them. I only pick up news second-hand. My old dog has just died. My cat still bites me on a daily basis. I drink slightly less beer than I used to, but it still has the same effect. One of the few benefits of advancing years.
Jay Reynolds
Senior Member.
I have located a few videos which show airplane refueling. These should help to provide an antidote to the fear brough about by ignorance.
The claims that airplane fuel contains aluminum in sufficient mass to create a plume hundreds of miles long through additives would require hundreds of tons of aluminum to be incorporated into the fuel. Aluminum is a solid substance and would be visible. This video shows how fuel trucks have a sump at the bottom to collect foreign matter, dirt, metal, or water. The sumps are checked regularly by the refueling operators as shown, and foreign material would be seen. The fuel operator would be derelict in his duties to allow contamination of any kind, and be responsible for a crash if he did so:
This video shows the fuel operator taking sump samples, doing a visual check to see that the fuel is "clear and bright", and some simple field tests both from the truck and at the tanks. This is a serious and very responsible job performed continuously thousands of times daily worldwide.
Furthermore, the airplanes themselves have sumps on their tanks, and visual checks are also made of these, as seen at 2:20 in this video. The video shows in detail fuel procedures including the fact that fuel is metered into this plane by weight, not gallons. Weight is used because stability of the plane is very important and stability depends on the weight of fuel. Pilots know what weight to expect and how far a given weight will take the plane. If a large mass of aluminum or other substance were added to the fuel, it would decrease the plane's range and be noticeable. Unusual trim conditions caused by unusual weight of fuel would also be an indication of problems. Fueling an airplane is a serious matter, because the pilot wants to live through the flight. Running out of fuel or carrying sub-quality fuel is not like spending some time on the side of the road or calling for roadside assistance, it is a matter of life or death for the pilot and passengers as well as the job of every person in the fuel supply chain. Risking safety by putting off quality fuel into an airplane is simply not an option.
Fuel additives such as Prist or Stadis 450 are sometimes claimed to create "chemtrails". Prist prevents icing of fuel in case small amounts of water form in fuel tanks which could possibly freeze and block fuel lines. It is added at the extremely low rate of 0.1 to 0.15% of the fuel volume(~1 gal. per 1000 gal.) by metering from a small container during fueling as seen at 1:50 during this video. Stadis 450 prevents fire producing sparks from happening in fuel system components, and is added at a MUCH lower rate of 0.00013%:
I hope this puts some perspective on these claims. Readers should be aware that this sort of information is not being shown inside the chemtrails believer camps because the leadership prefers that their followers not know the whole story, thus maintaining the hype of fear and eliciting an emotional rather than a factual response.
The claims that airplane fuel contains aluminum in sufficient mass to create a plume hundreds of miles long through additives would require hundreds of tons of aluminum to be incorporated into the fuel. Aluminum is a solid substance and would be visible. This video shows how fuel trucks have a sump at the bottom to collect foreign matter, dirt, metal, or water. The sumps are checked regularly by the refueling operators as shown, and foreign material would be seen. The fuel operator would be derelict in his duties to allow contamination of any kind, and be responsible for a crash if he did so:
This video shows the fuel operator taking sump samples, doing a visual check to see that the fuel is "clear and bright", and some simple field tests both from the truck and at the tanks. This is a serious and very responsible job performed continuously thousands of times daily worldwide.
Furthermore, the airplanes themselves have sumps on their tanks, and visual checks are also made of these, as seen at 2:20 in this video. The video shows in detail fuel procedures including the fact that fuel is metered into this plane by weight, not gallons. Weight is used because stability of the plane is very important and stability depends on the weight of fuel. Pilots know what weight to expect and how far a given weight will take the plane. If a large mass of aluminum or other substance were added to the fuel, it would decrease the plane's range and be noticeable. Unusual trim conditions caused by unusual weight of fuel would also be an indication of problems. Fueling an airplane is a serious matter, because the pilot wants to live through the flight. Running out of fuel or carrying sub-quality fuel is not like spending some time on the side of the road or calling for roadside assistance, it is a matter of life or death for the pilot and passengers as well as the job of every person in the fuel supply chain. Risking safety by putting off quality fuel into an airplane is simply not an option.
Fuel additives such as Prist or Stadis 450 are sometimes claimed to create "chemtrails". Prist prevents icing of fuel in case small amounts of water form in fuel tanks which could possibly freeze and block fuel lines. It is added at the extremely low rate of 0.1 to 0.15% of the fuel volume(~1 gal. per 1000 gal.) by metering from a small container during fueling as seen at 1:50 during this video. Stadis 450 prevents fire producing sparks from happening in fuel system components, and is added at a MUCH lower rate of 0.00013%:
I hope this puts some perspective on these claims. Readers should be aware that this sort of information is not being shown inside the chemtrails believer camps because the leadership prefers that their followers not know the whole story, thus maintaining the hype of fear and eliciting an emotional rather than a factual response.
Jay Uzi
New Member
The circle continues. When dealing with irrational people, so is the consequence.
Metabunk will be a target for believers. Any strong opposition will have the finger pointed back here. The page speaks for itself. If the has a reputation for being a troll factory, I don't know, but if it does, I didn't create that.
I'm not disagreeing with what you say, but it's the nature of the beast.
Similar threads
