Aviation fuel additives

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
..., I'm fairly certain that this was his agenda all along. I will give Jim some credit, he is an intelligent person, and he figured out the exact buttons to push.

A Machiavellian ploy to manipulate a plastic victory.
Oh well, whatever. He'll get his hollow fame.
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
[*]50-80% "Heavy Aromatic Naptha",
[*]5-10% each Napthalene and "BUTYLATED HYDROXTOLUENE/2,6-DI-TERT-BUTYL-P-CRESOL",
[*]1-5% "MINERAL OIL, PETROLEUM DISTILLATE, SOLVENT DEWAXED (SEVERE), HEAVY PARAFFINIC", and
[*]<3% "DIMETHYL SULFOXIDE"
[/LIST]
They all burn beautifully, subject to the same rules as for kerosine:

combustion.gif

I think it's possible to see how small any Stadis residue will be. No more than the kerosine it replaces.

Less than indicated here, as this diagram is 20 yrs old, and engines have moved on. The only thing it might do is raise the sulfur dioxide emission by 0.000x per cent, as there is fractional percentage of sulfur in aviation spirit to begin with.

Does anyone know exactly what proportion is used of Stadis to aviation spirit? (I'd guess about 1 : 2000).

Isn't it only used in hot dry conditions? Deserts and such? Doesn't the static-reducing humidity of temperate-to-cool regions rule out the need for it? Have I missed that?
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
A Machiavellian ploy to manipulate a plastic victory.
Oh well, whatever. He'll get his hollow fame.
It's exactly the same strategy as the previous, er, wossname.

We ought to be able to see them coming, and prevent them from self-extracting themselves without damaging their standing, at least. That's what they're using us to try to build.

These people are truly [....]y. Oh, f[..]k.

Actually there is something we can do. Agree among ourselves for one person at a time to ask the first pertinent question and not allow ourselves to be distracted from receiving an answer.

Stick to not just the ONE topic, but just the SINGLE QUESTION.

And keep demanding a satisfactory answer to it, before we move on further. As Mick says.

When confronted with such an alien and systematic approach, it's our self-discipline that is called to question. Even more so if such guys team up.
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
I'm pretty sure that Jim manipulated this entire thread from the start for what he feels will be his gain.

He posted a link to his facebook today that says:

World's top geoengineers discussing my Weather Control timeline!
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!s...ntrol/geoengineering/h6yLe4D3AXk/LsPefgNrrIYJ

His introductory post that start the thread:

I would like to extend an invitation to everyone in this community to please browse, share, and fact check an interactive javascript timeline based on weather modification and geoengineering.
As we all know there is not a definitive history of weather control, therefore I have put much effort into creating one. This page will grow over time, with many additions/corrections.
Each slide has an image, with reference links beneath the image.
Please send me any links to other timelines and reference material that can help me flesh this story out.


There was a favorable reception with some constructive criticism about how to beef it up with peer review content and refine the distinction between weather modification and geoengineering. They were taking him seriously and were fairly complementary.

But then Ken Caldiera made the comment:


The main concern with this is the inclusion of what might be irrelevancies. For example, why is HAARP important except for its relationship to conspiracy theories?

Jim then just launched into it:

I do not ascribe to conspiracy theories, only fact. HAARP can do the following in regards to modifying the climate...

...You might say the only conspiracy is how all this goes on for fifty years and you seem to have no clue.

With his usual copy/paste and link dump gish gallop.

That ended the thread. He probably takes that as a victory.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
http://chemtrailsplanet.net/2013/05...ives-and-contrails-pollute-global-atmosphere/


"Aviation fuels contain additives with “trade secret” ingredients. "

From that site:

Seems to be out of date - the latest MSDS for Stadis 450 lists no secret ingredients - perhaps you could get them to update their obsolete information?
 
J

Joe

Guest
Hmm its pretty dry today and there are a few persistent contrails ? no weather fronts ? Weather ReportHome » Local » Weather Report

Vero Beach, Florida
Weather Report | Interactive Weather Map | Extended Forecast | Hourly Forecast | Past Observations | Historic Averages |


Current Conditions - °F | °C
As of 12:53 PM on Wednesday 15 May 2013 (Local Time) from KVRB Reporting Station

Few Clouds 79°F
Feels Like: 80°
Wind Chill:79° Ceiling:Unl
Heat Index:80° Visibility:10mi
Dew Point:62° Wind:13mph
Humidity:56% Direction:40° (NE)
Pressure:30.22" Gusts:NA
Report Text: KVRB 151653Z 04011KT 10SM FEW040 26/17 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP233 T02610167
2 PM
P Cloudy
80°
3 PM
P Cloudy
80°
4 PM
M Sunny
79°
Local Information
View Detailed Observations for the last
48 Hours · 14 Days
View Complete Hourly Forecast »Radar · Satellite · Surface Analysis
 
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scombrid

Senior Member.
Hmm its pretty dry today and there are a few persistent contrails ? no weather fronts ? Weather ReportHome » Local » Weather Report

Vero Beach, Florida
Weather Report | Interactive Weather Map | Extended Forecast | Hourly Forecast | Past Observations | Historic Averages |


Current Conditions - °F | °C
As of 12:53 PM on Wednesday 15 May 2013 (Local Time) from KVRB Reporting Station

Few Clouds
79°F
Feels Like: 80°
Wind Chill:
79°
Ceiling:
Unl
Heat Index:
80°
Visibility:
10mi
Dew Point:
62°
Wind:
13mph
Humidity:
56%
Direction:
40° (NE)
Pressure:
30.22"
Gusts:
NA
Report Text: KVRB 151653Z 04011KT 10SM FEW040 26/17 A3022 RMK AO2 SLP233 T02610167

2 PM
P Cloudy

80°
3 PM
P Cloudy

80°
4 PM
M Sunny

79°

Local Information
View Detailed Observations for the last
48 Hours · 14 Days
View Complete Hourly Forecast »
Radar · Satellite · Surface Analysis

Well drive on down to Miami and hop a flight to Houston and sample the bleed air in the cabin while you're passing through (and making new) trails over the Gulf of Mexico (trails that are visible on the GoMEX visible loop drifting rapidly toward Florida right now).
 
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J

Joe

Guest
There are no trails drifting they are being formed . No fronts low humidity and 30 mile long contrails at least with no breaks yet many aircraft no trails at all ?
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
I see plenty of trails drifting towards Florida at about 80kts over the GoMEX on the visible loop.

Are all those jets at the same altitude?
Have you made any attempt to identify the planes?
 

Pete

Member
I thought the chemtrail believers said there were 'spray planes' with tanks and nozzles... So why would it be in the jet fuel?

And if it is in the jet fuel, then just buy some jet fuel? No? Or get friendly with someone who works as ground-crew in an airport and he can sample some of the spilt fuel (of which there is a lot!) and it can be tested. Jesus.
 

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
If I was looking for subject matter to complete a doctoral dissertation for psychology, I'd pick Jim...and the chemtrail community.

This thread is all over the map!
 

Jazzy

Closed Account
If I was looking for subject matter to complete a doctoral dissertation for psychology, I'd pick Jim...and the chemtrail community. This thread is all over the map!
You would be if
a) you didn't understand altitude
b) you didn't understand perspective
c) you didn't understand how aircraft engines work
d) you didn't understand how aircraft fly
e) you haven't the faintest clue what clouds are made of

I'm tired now... :)
 
J

Joe

Guest
3.4.1 Fuel sulphur contentSulphur plays an integral role in the contrail formation process, facilitating water
nucleation on soot particles and providing volatile particles serving as condensation
nuclei. A reduction of the fuel sulphur content would reduce the emission of SO3
and H2SO4, and have an impact on the aerosol density in the plume and contrail
precursor activation. It would be technically possible to reduce the fuel sulphur
content. However, reducing the fuel content might have no or only a very little
impact on contrail formation as mentioned in section 2.1.2. Water nucleation on
soot particles is believed to be independent of the presence of sulphur species in
the plume [Popovitcheva et al., 2001]. And even if sulphur free fuel led to the
absence of volatile particles and avoided water nucleationon soot particles, ambient
background particles would still provide sufficient condensation nuclei. Contrails
formed on background particles, however, would very likely be composed of fewer
but larger ice particles, which because of their radiative properties could result in
a lower positive radiative forcing. The impact of contrails with fewer but larger
particles on contrail cirrus formation has not been investigated up to now.
PDF https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/bitstream/1826/2966/1/Noppel%202007.pdf
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Did Joe read past this part in the abstract?

And even if sulphur free fuel led to the
absence of volatile particles and avoided water nucleationon soot particles, ambient
background particles would still provide sufficient condensation nuclei.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Do you even need to read all of it? You don't look like someone who will budge no matter how much scientifically accurate material they read.
Look Like ? Or act Like ? Stubborn me ? Maybe? but not blind to the truth . Its been a year for me on this form and nobody has successfully convinced me otherwise . I have learned quite a bit but still have my own opinion on what I believe . Its actually 150 pages so not done yet . It will take me a few days with my busy workload .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Just to be clear - what is your position/opinion/belief that no-one has convinced you otherwise about??
 
J

Joe

Guest
Just to be clear - what is your position/opinion/belief that no-one has convinced you otherwise about??
On geoengineering . whether or not it is happening . Thats pretty much my Only so called conspiracy . IMO of course
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
OK. 0.003 grams is 0.000003 Kg. A litre of avgas weighs 0.8 Kg, so 0.8/0.000003 makes the proportion 1 : 267,000.

That's what I do. Be jealous. :)

an interesting post by Matt McInnes at Australians against chemtrails. The ballast tanks on aircraft photos are now disinformation. He knows what they are really for and pours scorn on some usual suspects like Madison Moonstar.. ( not that that is difficult).

i don't think he has read this thread though.... Because he has made a fool of himself yet again.

 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Can the first appearance of this photo used as chemtrail evidence be traced?
What's the bet it was an uneducated activist and not an unscrupulous double agent.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
They will still say it was a 'double agent'. Any time they get caught in a lie, they tend to blame some 'disinfo' agent, instead of manning up and admitting that they were wrong.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
William Thomas has admitted he was wrong to claim ethylene dibromide is part of jet fuel. He also claims to have done a lab analysis of jet fuel, but has never shown the results.

You folks asking here about what is in jet fuel should hold your own people accountable. You could even say that William Thomas is guilty of a conspiracy to withhold information from you, because he made these claims for a very long time, and has withheld this lab analysis from you for well over a decade.

Who will stand up for the truth among you chemtrails advocates besides me in calling for Thomas to release everything he has claimed to have?

That would include his claim to have "hundreds" of photo-identifiable USAF tankers spraying out of their tail booms, many more lab analyses, and the identity of multiple air traffic controllers who could testify about chemtrails. If all of this were true, why has Thomas kept his vital information about an alleged "Crime Against Humanity" under wraps for well over a decade?

A. He is making stuff up.
B. He has exaggerrated in some way.
C. He is part of the problem.

link to his admissions:
https://www.metabunk.org/posts/46652
 
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Jay Uzi

New Member
Someone posted in this thread that they thought Jazzy may have been me. . I was giving Russell Tanner a hard time a few months ago. Jazzy must be an asshole.. Haha
 

Jay Uzi

New Member
That had better be a nervous laugh.

Well I'm really not sure if I'm flattered or not. But I was definitely being an asshole.

I told him that I confessed to being a govt employee and that I was going to "spray the fuck out of Bangor Maine tomorrow " - Ha accused me of being one of "Mick West's cronies", selectively deleted my posts and blocked me ... So I looked up Mick and signed up here.

Great page, but why it so bad on mobile? It's really slow.
 
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HappyMonday

Moderator
Someone posted in this thread that they thought Jazzy may have been me. . I was giving Russell Tanner a hard time a few months ago. Jazzy must be an asshole.. Haha

I told him that I confessed to being a govt employee and that I was going to "spray the fuck out of Bangor Maine tomorrow " - Ha accused me of being one of "Mick West's cronies", selectively deleted my posts and blocked me ... So I looked up Mick and signed up here.

A hollow propaganda victory for the believers in the end, to my mind.

Those incorrectly attributed comments now have a life of their own, and are touted around the chemtrails believers online in an attempt to discredit both Metabunk generally and some users specifically, used to confirm the bias of those who've fallen for the hoax who might otherwise use this website to learn some facts.

Just goes to show the unintended consequences of trolling, sadly. It pays to be careful with those who've bought into these kind of theories.
 
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Jazzy

Closed Account
There used to be a YT website called JazzrocIsASpook claiming me to be a team of dozens of people. It was populated by dozens of the deluded. They rummaged through my writings looking for confirmation of their delusion. They apparently found it. That was five years ago. The site is empty now. I am a single individual, slightly more wrinkled these days. Alzheimers hasn't yet set in.
I still live in the same address. My old friends still exist in England. I still miss them. I only pick up news second-hand. My old dog has just died. My cat still bites me on a daily basis. I drink slightly less beer than I used to, but it still has the same effect. One of the few benefits of advancing years. :)
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
I have located a few videos which show airplane refueling. These should help to provide an antidote to the fear brough about by ignorance.

The claims that airplane fuel contains aluminum in sufficient mass to create a plume hundreds of miles long through additives would require hundreds of tons of aluminum to be incorporated into the fuel. Aluminum is a solid substance and would be visible. This video shows how fuel trucks have a sump at the bottom to collect foreign matter, dirt, metal, or water. The sumps are checked regularly by the refueling operators as shown, and foreign material would be seen. The fuel operator would be derelict in his duties to allow contamination of any kind, and be responsible for a crash if he did so:

This video shows the fuel operator taking sump samples, doing a visual check to see that the fuel is "clear and bright", and some simple field tests both from the truck and at the tanks. This is a serious and very responsible job performed continuously thousands of times daily worldwide.

Furthermore, the airplanes themselves have sumps on their tanks, and visual checks are also made of these, as seen at 2:20 in this video. The video shows in detail fuel procedures including the fact that fuel is metered into this plane by weight, not gallons. Weight is used because stability of the plane is very important and stability depends on the weight of fuel. Pilots know what weight to expect and how far a given weight will take the plane. If a large mass of aluminum or other substance were added to the fuel, it would decrease the plane's range and be noticeable. Unusual trim conditions caused by unusual weight of fuel would also be an indication of problems. Fueling an airplane is a serious matter, because the pilot wants to live through the flight. Running out of fuel or carrying sub-quality fuel is not like spending some time on the side of the road or calling for roadside assistance, it is a matter of life or death for the pilot and passengers as well as the job of every person in the fuel supply chain. Risking safety by putting off quality fuel into an airplane is simply not an option.

Fuel additives such as Prist or Stadis 450 are sometimes claimed to create "chemtrails". Prist prevents icing of fuel in case small amounts of water form in fuel tanks which could possibly freeze and block fuel lines. It is added at the extremely low rate of 0.1 to 0.15% of the fuel volume(~1 gal. per 1000 gal.) by metering from a small container during fueling as seen at 1:50 during this video. Stadis 450 prevents fire producing sparks from happening in fuel system components, and is added at a MUCH lower rate of 0.00013%:

I hope this puts some perspective on these claims. Readers should be aware that this sort of information is not being shown inside the chemtrails believer camps because the leadership prefers that their followers not know the whole story, thus maintaining the hype of fear and eliciting an emotional rather than a factual response.
 

Jay Uzi

New Member
A hollow propaganda victory for believers in the end, to my mind.

Those incorrectly attributed comments now have a life of their own, and are touted around the chemtrails believers online in an attempt to discredit both Metabunk generally and some users specifically, used to confirm thoughtss of those who've fallen for the hoax who might otherwise use this website to learn some facts.

Just goes to show the unintended consequences of trolling, sadly. It pays to be careful with those who've bought into these kind of theories.

The circle continues. When dealing with irrational people, so is the consequence.

Metabunk will be a target for believers. Any strong opposition will have the finger pointed back here. The page speaks for itself. If the has a reputation for being a troll factory, I don't know, but if it does, I didn't create that.

I'm not disagreeing with what you say, but it's the nature of the beast.
 
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