David Grusch, Whistleblower, Claims U.S. Has Retrieved Craft and Bodies of Non-Human Origin

[Mick West]

Article:

Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal - June 5, 2023

A former intelligence official turned whistleblower has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.

The information, he says, has been illegally withheld from Congress, and he filed a complaint alleging that he suffered illegal retaliation for his confidential disclosures, reported here for the first time.

Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.

The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). He served as the reconnaissance office's representative to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force from 2019-2021. From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the NGA's co-lead for UAP analysis and its representative to the task force.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230605130331/https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

Article: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/
Archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/2023060...icials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are "of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures," he said.
In filing his complaint, Grusch is represented by a lawyer who served as the original Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG).
"We are not talking about prosaic origins or identities," Grusch said, referencing information he provided Congress and the current ICIG. "The material includes intact and partially intact vehicles."

Article:

Jonathan Grey is a generational officer of the United States Intelligence Community with a Top-Secret Clearance who currently works for the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC), where the analysis of UAP has been his focus. Previously he had experience serving Private Aerospace and Department of Defense Special Directive Task Forces.

"The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone," Grey said. "Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us."

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230605130331/https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

This article would appear to validate key portions of UFO mythology. Currently though it seems largely based on the good moral character of the informants:

Article:

Grusch left the government on April 7, 2023, in order, he said, to advance government accountability through public awareness. He remains well-supported within intelligence circles, and numerous sources have vouched for his credibility.

"His assertion concerning the existence of a terrestrial arms race occurring sub-rosa over the past eighty years focused on reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin is fundamentally correct, as is the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence," said Karl Nell, the retired Army Colonel who worked with Grusch on the UAP Task Force.

In a 2022 performance evaluation, Laura A. Potter, Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, Headquarters, Department of the Army, described Nell as "an officer with the strongest possible moral compass."

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230605130331/https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

Nobody doubts that there are top-secret programs dedicated to reverse engineering foreign technology. What is less clear is the basis for "the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence"

That's loosely described here:

Article:

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are "of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures," he said.

Source: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

I await more details of that evidence with interest.

 

[Mick West]

This is a topic that is likely to attract a lot of attention. Please avoid baseless speculation about motives, credibility, or personal attacks - all of which tend to derail the conversation. Stick to the facts.

 

[Mick West]

In a companion piece there's an interesting discussion between Tim McMillan and Christopher Plain of The Debrief

Article:

CP: Great. So, Tim, the next thing here, it says "In accordance with protocols, Grusch provided the Defense Department's Office of Prepublication and Security Review the information he intended to disclose to us, and it was "cleared for open publication" on April 4 and 6, 2023." What is the Defense Department's Office of Pre-publication Security Review? And were you able to confirm that contention that it had been cleared for publication on those two dates?

TM: That's a great question. So, the Defense Pre-publication Security Review, that's also called DOPSR, each branch or component of the government has one of these offices. And so what it means is, anytime somebody who held a top-secret position or has worked with classified material, if they're going to discuss that work publicly, if they're gonna write a book, if we're going to do an interview, that type of thing, they are required…they're supposed to clear what they intend to say through DOPSR beforehand. And DOPSR's role there is to determine what somebody is going to say, what they're going to write, if they're writing a book, what they're going to print, and make sure that what's being said isn't classified information. So, they're essentially stamping and saying, "That's fine, you can say that." And, you know, they may, in certain instances, say, "No, you can't say that." Or, often, they do. They'll say you can say this. You can't say that.

CP: Because this mostly has to do with security and classifications?

TM: Yes. It has to do with ensuring that people who are even out of the government now, that if they're going to talk about their work while working in a classified setting in government if they're going to talk about that publicly, it's ensuring that the information they're talking about, they're not revealing national security secrets or classified information. So this is a unique setting here because this is something you don't often see in any type of news article. You would see it with books, you'll see it in documentaries, but you often would never see this in a news/print article. But it does speak to the fact that Grusch really tried to take the exact, appropriate path, the exact official channels. He's tried to do everything right throughout this process. He hasn't gone willy-nilly. And so, when he decided he wanted to come forward with his story, he put the information he wanted to share through DOPSR, and they cleared it. That doesn't mean that the Department of Defense is stamping off on what he's saying and saying, "Okay, yeah, it's all true." They're just saying, "Okay, we'll let you say that because it's not going to reveal any secrets."

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230605140356/https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/

Which means that Grusch is not revealing any classified information. This seems a bit odd, as surely details of the existence of such programs would be classified?

Note that DOPSR also cleared "Skinwalkers at the Pentagon", which also makes amazing claims, but also apparently contained nothing classified.

 

[NorCal Dave]

Big claims indeed! Though also a rather standard one. One of the things I always felt would lead some credence to this notion involves the reverse-engineering claim of alien technology:

"His assertion concerning the existence of a terrestrial arms race occurring sub-rosa over the past eighty years focused on reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin is fundamentally correct, as is the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence,"

https://web.archive.org/web/2023060...icials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

It seems this would be an easy bit of evidence to provide. If there has been reverse-engineering of alien technology for the past 80 years, what are a few examples? None are ever giving. I've heard the transistor or the computer chip in the past, but the origin and development of these can be traced back. Same with space flight, stealth technology, CAD/CNC and so on.

There has never been a valid example of some technological "breakthrough" that didn't have appropriate antecedents. An iPhone14Pro can be traced back to Wozniak's garage in the early '70s. Step by incremental step.

I suppose the argument would be that whatever was reverse engineered is still classified. For 80 years? And if that's the case, we're talking about classified craft of unknown origin that were used to create classified technology, so there is nothing to go on, except claims of such classified things.

As the kids say, "Following".

 

[Itsme]

Which means that Grusch is not revealing any classified information. This seems a bit odd, as surely details of the existence of such programs would be classified?

Maybe he is protected by a new law, signed off in December 2022:

Grusch prepared many briefs on unidentified aerial phenomena for Congress while in government and helped draft the language on UAP for the FY2023 National Defense Authorization Act, spearheaded by Senators Kirsten Gillibrand and Marco Rubio and signed into law by President Biden in December 2022. The provision states that any person with relevant UAP information can inform Congress without retaliation, regardless of any previous non-disclosure agreements.

Beginning in 2022, Grusch provided Congress with hours of recorded classified information transcribed into hundreds of pages which included specific data about the materials recovery program. Congress has not been provided with any physical materials related to wreckage or other non-human objects.

Source: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

 

[Mendel]

Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are "of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures," he said.

What is "non-human intelligence" of unknown (but not extraterrestrial) origin? AI?

What are "unique atomic arrangements"? Something like an unknown alloy, or a material like a semiconductor?

 

[Martinicus1]

Big claims indeed! Though also a rather standard one. One of the things I always felt would lead some credence to this notion involves the reverse-engineering claim of alien technology:

"His assertion concerning the existence of a terrestrial arms race occurring sub-rosa over the past eighty years focused on reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin is fundamentally correct, as is the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence,"

https://web.archive.org/web/2023060...icials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

It seems this would be an easy bit of evidence to provide. If there has been reverse-engineering of alien technology for the past 80 years, what are a few examples? None are ever giving. I've heard the transistor or the computer chip in the past, but the origin and development of these can be traced back. Same with space flight, stealth technology, CAD/CNC and so on.

There has never been a valid example of some technological "breakthrough" that didn't have appropriate antecedents. An iPhone14Pro can be traced back to Wozniak's garage in the early '70s. Step by incremental step.

I suppose the argument would be that whatever was reverse engineered is still classified. For 80 years? And if that's the case, we're talking about classified craft of unknown origin that were used to create classified technology, so there is nothing to go on, except claims of such classified things.

As the kids say, "Following".

If true, isn't the point that it's been kept secret in highly compartmentalised programs, not shared with Apple. The other point, again if true, is if it's advanced - how long would it take Stone Age people to reverse engineer a crashed F35…

 

[Martinicus1]

What is "non-human intelligence" of unknown (but not extraterrestrial) origin? AI?

What are "unique atomic arrangements"? Something like an unknown alloy, or a material like a semiconductor?

Ross Coulthart in the Need to Know Podcast released today says that there will be information on this (non-human intelligence) in the up and coming NewsNation interviews with Grusch. The first one is tonight at 6 pacific time.

 

[Mendel]

I am reminded of this case:

The late Paul Hellyer, former Canadian Minister of Defence, gave in 2017 an interview to the YouTube channel "The Hannibal TV". Aside from a lot of wild claims, he was very specific about the alleged existence of a report from the Allied Forces being issued about a 1963 mass ufo sighting supposedly having occurred in Europe,

It turns out Hellyer read a ufology book that described a nonexistent NATO report. His credentials had nothing to do with the information he imparted.

We're going to have to look very hard at where the witnesses in this case found their information; on the surface, it's implied that they came across it as part of their official duty (and that it originated from within their organisations), but in the case of Hellyer, these assumptions were wrong.

So the provenance of this new sensational information is very important, and I'd like more clarity on this issue.

 

[JMartJr]

Maybe he is protected by a new law, signed off in December 2022:

Grusch prepared many briefs on unidentified aerial phenomena for Congress while in government and helped draft the language on UAP for the FY2023 National Defense Authorization Act, spearheaded by Senators Kirsten Gillibrand and Marco Rubio and signed into law by President Biden in December 2022. The provision states that any person with relevant UAP information can inform Congress without retaliation, regardless of any previous non-disclosure agreements.

I'm not following your point here -- how would a law allowing somebody to inform Congress regarding UAPs regardless of prior nondisclousre agreements allow somebody to inform the public of classified information? Seems appley/orangey to me, but perhaps I'm missing a step?

 

[Mendel]

Article:

Grey said that such immense capabilities are not merely relegated to the study of the prosaic. "The existence of complex historical programs involving the coordinated retrieval and study of exotic materials, dating back to the early 20th century, should no longer remain a secret," he said. "The majority of retrieved, foreign exotic materials have a prosaic terrestrial explanation and origin – but not all, and any number higher than zero in this category represents an undeniably significant statistical percentage."

Source: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

Seems similar to the UFO report situation: there's no reason why the unexplained minority can't also have a prosaic explanation that nobody's found yet.

---

Article:

An unclassified version of the complaint provided to us states that Grusch has direct knowledge that UAP-related classified information has been withheld and/or concealed from Congress by "elements" of the intelligence community "to purposely and intentionally thwart legitimate Congressional oversight of the UAP Program." All testimony Grusch provided for the classified complaint was provided under oath.

[...]

"When you have multiple agencies nesting UAP activities in conventional SAP/CAP programs, both as recipients of exploitation-related insights and for operational reasons, without appropriate reporting to various oversight authorities, you have a problem," Grusch said, referencing the highly secret Special Access Programs and Controlled Access Programs.

Source: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

That I'd be happy to believe. In fact, we already have a thread on something like it:

With the help of Nevada Senator Reid, whom had been introduced to Bigelow by Knapp many years before, Lacatski crafted a government contract to look at UFOs, strange stuff and Skinwalker Ranch. All under the guise of future aerospace technologies and threats.

The result were 30-some highly speculative "science" papers, see https://www.metabunk.org/threads/37-of-38-baas-aawsap-dirds-have-now-been-released.12346/ . So claims that resources were used for ufology that Congress didn't know were being used for ufology seem to have some basis in fact.

---

Article:

materials from objects of non-human origin

Source: https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

This definition encompasses meteorites.
Given that some people seem to think `Oumuamua is an alien artifact, the line between artifacts and natural astronomical objects may be blurred.

I'm really looking for evidence that these new disclosures have more at their core than what we sceptics already know or surmise.

 

[Itsme]

I'm not following your point here -- how would a law allowing somebody to inform Congress regarding UAPs regardless of prior nondisclousre agreements allow somebody to inform the public of classified information? Seems appley/orangey to me, but perhaps I'm missing a step?

The Debrief article does not contain any details, just the announcement that this type of classified information has been given to Congress. (And if Congress is already informed, it will probably leak to the public domain sooner or later. This may have been one of the DOPR considerations for approval of the Debrief article.)

 

[Mendel]

I'm not following your point here -- how would a law allowing somebody to inform Congress regarding UAPs regardless of prior nondisclousre agreements allow somebody to inform the public of classified information? Seems appley/orangey to me, but perhaps I'm missing a step?

Grusch is informing Congress of classified information.
He's informing the public that he has informed Congress, which is not classified, apparently.

 

[Martinicus1]

I'm not following your point here -- how would a law allowing somebody to inform Congress regarding UAPs regardless of prior nondisclousre agreements allow somebody to inform the public of classified information? Seems appley/orangey to me, but perhaps I'm missing a step?

Here's the quote from the article: "In accordance with protocols, Grusch provided the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review at the Department of Defense with the information he intended to disclose to us. His on-the-record statements were all "cleared for open publication" on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us." According to this the DOD have authorised it.

 

[Mick West]

Here's a machine-generated transcript of the Coulthart/Zybel pre-interview discussion
https://otter.ai/u/EmykFxg4NTjjOQubWZmzUqllv3E?utm_source=copy_url

Ross Coulthart 7:18
I was just reading before I came on to this podcast, Bryce, a comment by Brian Bender, who I have huge respect for the ex political journalist, they're working in private consultancy, and Brian made the entirely legitimate point that if people are going to come forward, they really do need to be highly credible people, maybe perhaps speaking as program managers, people from within the program. Dave Grusch isn't that. He's not somebody who's worked in the program. But what he did do is he worked for the UAP Task Force. He was perhaps the lead investigator for the body that the Pentagon set up to investigate the phenomenon at the request of the Congress. And it was he who was authorized with all of his compartmented security clearances to go and find the code name programs that do exist, that contain what he alleges, involve, as we've read today in The Debrief, a crash retrieval program, recovered non-human technology that is secretly held by the United States.

 

[Ann K]

I would prefer to have seen that "exotic origin and unique atomic arrangement" comment from a specialist in materials, a metallurgist or a ceramics engineer, perhaps. That diagnosis may well have originally been made by a materials science professional, because it's certainly not a thing one can get from a visual inspection, but his comment doesn't clarify that significant claim.

There is nothing about an inanimate object that definitively states "non-human", though, and I think we should take that claim as an obvious opinion rather than a fact. There are known terrestrial objects and there are things that are unknown (in material or purpose) by the person that examines them, but simply being unknown does not imply non-human (outside of, for example, something that might be employed by a chimpanzee for its own purposes).

 

[Mendel]

Here's a machine-generated transcript of the Coulthart/Zybel pre-interview discussion
https://otter.ai/u/EmykFxg4NTjjOQubWZmzUqllv3E?utm_source=copy_url

That Mr. grush is quite clear that he's not saying it's necessarily Extra Terrestrial. He has various theories about that.

"not necessarily extraterrestrial" speaks to the quality of the evidence we're expecting.

 

[Ann K]

That Mr. grush is quite clear that he's not saying it's necessarily Extra Terrestrial. He has various theories about that.

"not necessarily extraterrestrial" speaks to the quality of the evidence we're expecting.

"Non-human intelligence" is also a quotation from him.

 

[Mendel]

That Mr. grush is quite clear that he's not saying it's necessarily Extra Terrestrial. He has various theories about that.

"not necessarily extraterrestrial" speaks to the quality of the evidence we're expecting.

To clarify this:

The Debrief writes:

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors.

This makes it sound like there's a flying saucer junkyard someplace. But if there was, Grush couldn't be doubting that we had extraterrestrial visitors. So these "intact vehicles" can't be actual flying saucers.

The podcast has Ross Coulthard say at 47:33,

Actually, I just realized that the comments that Kirkpatrick made about the lack of any credible evidence for ET life were actually made it[?] and[?] so[?] news conference. And, you know, I'm sorry, let's call it what it is. It's a deliberate cover up. It's a lie.

But when Grush says, it's not necessarily extraterrestrial, that means there is still no compelling evidence that whatever objects they found were produced by extraterrestrial life. So Kirkpatrick and Grusch say basically the same thing, except Kirkpatrick is called a liar while Grusch is their hero.

So what I'm expecting is this:
• there were programs doing ufology that Congress didn't know about that they were doing
• the DoD has people who go out to crash sites and retrieve stuff, and most of it is explained.

So what we're left with is expressed by Bryce Zabel on the podcast:

Well, instead of talking about, well, gosh, there's only 5% that are anomalous. So really nothing to see here. They should be focusing on those 5% Because we don't care about the ones that are being identified. We want to know what is going on with the anomalous ones.

The believers think the ETs are lurking in the unidentified stuff.
The skeptics think, the unidentified stuff is the same as the identified stuff except with worse data.

What we really want (all of us) is something that can be identified as manufactured by alien life, or alien life itself. But seeing what Grusch says, that evidence does not exist.

---

P.S.: Circumstantial evidence that the news editors don't think it is much of a bombshell, either:

Article:

going to be on News Nation sometime in the next week. And I believe their show will be about an hour. And so Ross interviewing this gentleman, Dave Grusch, is part of that hour, but the amount of time that Dave is on the air, compared to the amount of time he talked, is small.

Source: https://otter.ai/u/EmykFxg4NTjjOQubWZmzUqllv3E

Like always, we'll see if my expectations pan out or not.

 

[Martinicus1]

To clarify this:

The Debrief writes:

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors.

This makes it sound like there's a flying saucer junkyard someplace. But if there was, Grush couldn't be doubting that we had extraterrestrial visitors. So these "intact vehicles" can't be actual flying saucers.

The podcast has Ross Coulthard say at 47:33,

Actually, I just realized that the comments that Kirkpatrick made about the lack of any credible evidence for ET life were actually made it and so news conference. And, you know, I'm sorry, let's call it what it is. It's a deliberate cover up. It's a lie.

But when Grush says, it's not necessarily extraterrestrial, that means there is still no compelling evidence that whatever objects they found were produced by extraterrestrial life. So Kirkpatrick and Grusch say basically the same thing, except Kirkpatrick is called a liar while Grusch is their hero.

So what I'm expecting is this:
• there were programs doing ufology that Congress didn't know about that they were doing
• the DoD has people who go out to crash sites and retrieve stuff, and most of it is explained.

So what we're left with is expressed by Bryce Zabel on the podcast:

Well, instead of talking about, well, gosh, there's only 5% that are anomalous. So really nothing to see here. They should be focusing on those 5% Because we don't care about the ones that are being identified. We want to know what is going on with the anomalous ones.

The believers think the ETs are lurking in the unidentified stuff.
The skeptics think, the unidentified stuff is the same as the identified stuff except with worse data.

What we really want (all of us) is something that can be identified as manufactured by alien life, or alien life itself. But seeing what Grusch says, that evidence does not exist.

---

P.S.: Circumstantial evidence that the news editors don't think it is much of a bombshell, either:

Article:

going to be on News Nation sometime in the next week. And I believe their show will be about an hour. And so Ross interviewing this gentleman, Dave Grusch, is part of that hour, but the amount of time that Dave is on the air, compared to the amount of time he talked, is small.

Source: https://otter.ai/u/EmykFxg4NTjjOQubWZmzUqllv3E

Like always, we'll see if my expectations pan out or not.

He calls them "space craft" in this teaser:

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zQJT4hvfMlU

I'm interested to see how this plays out, particularly how the Pentagon and Congress respond. There's not really enough information yet.

 

[Mendel]

He calls them "space craft" in this teaser:

0:52 Call it 'space craft', if you will, it's probably not the right parlance

 

[jarlrmai]

Spacecraft can refer to recovered Russian/Chinese satellites/rockets.

You can essentially describe a completely normal secret program of recovery and examination of other countries technology, aircraft, spacecraft (satellites/rockets) leave the details on that sparse by using some fun UFO friendly words like "craft" and "vehicle" which are technically accurate but leave room for the imagination, when you could probably have said "jet aeroplane," "booster rocket" and "satellite." Sprinkle a little "some stuff we couldn't work out what it was" and words like exotic and then leave the viewers to fill in the gaps to conjure up a junkyard full of flying saucers.

 

[Mendel]

Spacecraft can refer to recovered Russian/Chinese satellites/rockets.

"non-human origin technical vehicles" (from the teaser)

The question is, how was that origin determination made?

 

[Ravi]

Haven't we seen this kind of "news" many times before? Or am I wrong?
It surely does not make me sit upright.
Extraordinary claims need.. etc. you catch my drift.

But we will see. I guess we will get a dozen podcasts and many talking heads.

 

[Itsme]

Haven't we seen this kind of "news" many times before? Or am I wrong?

Yes we have, but things seem to be a bit different now. Whistleblowers share their stories with Congress instead of the general public and are allowed to under new laws:

Senior members of Congress have spoken to as many as six whistleblowers who claim they worked on Roswell-style UFO crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs, according to a top attorney, a leading Stanford scientist, and ex-UFO program officials.

For decades it has been the subject of spooky TV shows and sci-fi novels: the theory that the government has alien spacecraft in a bunker somewhere, and has been trying to disassemble and understand their technology.

But things got a lot more real after Congress passed a law last year creating whistleblower protections for anyone who has worked in such mind-boggling secret programs – suggesting they may be more than just fiction.

The 2023 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), signed into law by President Joe Biden in December, included an amendment requiring the Pentagon to give high-ranking Senators classified reports on any previously undisclosed programs 'relating to unidentified anomalous phenomena, including with respect to material retrieval, material analysis, reverse engineering'.

Source: Daily Mail, 26 April 2023

 

[deirdre]

In a companion piece there's an interesting discussion between Tim McMillan and Christopher Plain of The Debrief

Article: CP: Great. So, Tim, the next thing here, it says "In accordance with protocols, Grusch provided the Defense Department's Office of Prepublication and Security Review the information he intended to disclose to us, and it was "cleared for open publication" on April 4 and 6, 2023." What is the Defense Department's Office of Pre-publication Security Review? And were you able to confirm that contention that it had been cleared for publication on those two dates?

TM: That's a great question. So, the Defense Pre-publication Security Review, that's also called DOPSR, each branch or component of the government has one of these offices. And so what it means is, anytime somebody who held a top-secret position or has worked with classified material, if they're going to discuss that work publicly, if they're gonna write a book, if we're going to do an interview, that type of thing, they are required…they're supposed to clear what they intend to say through DOPSR beforehand. And DOPSR's role there is to determine what somebody is going to say, what they're going to write, if they're writing a book, what they're going to print, and make sure that what's being said isn't classified information. So, they're essentially stamping and saying, "That's fine, you can say that." And, you know, they may, in certain instances, say, "No, you can't say that." Or, often, they do. They'll say you can say this. You can't say that.

CP: Because this mostly has to do with security and classifications?

TM: Yes. It has to do with ensuring that people who are even out of the government now, that if they're going to talk about their work while working in a classified setting in government if they're going to talk about that publicly, it's ensuring that the information they're talking about, they're not revealing national security secrets or classified information. So this is a unique setting here because this is something you don't often see in any type of news article. You would see it with books, you'll see it in documentaries, but you often would never see this in a news/print article. But it does speak to the fact that Grusch really tried to take the exact, appropriate path, the exact official channels. He's tried to do everything right throughout this process. He hasn't gone willy-nilly. And so, when he decided he wanted to come forward with his story, he put the information he wanted to share through DOPSR, and they cleared it. That doesn't mean that the Department of Defense is stamping off on what he's saying and saying, "Okay, yeah, it's all true." They're just saying, "Okay, we'll let you say that because it's not going to reveal any secrets." Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230605140356/https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/

Grusch left the government on April 7, 2023, https://web.archive.org/web/2023060...icials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

Interesting. This sounds exactly like the Elizondo playbook. Wasn't Elizondo's vids approved for "open publication" too?

 

[Martinicus1]

Interesting. This sounds exactly like the Elizondo playbook. Wasn't Elizondo's vids approved for "open publication" too?

Videos are one thing, but why would the DOD give the green light to go public with allegations of a massive cover up, wouldn't they object to that?

 

[Mick West]

There's an interview with Grush in the 3PM (PT) Elizabeth Vargas show on NewsNation (in 25 minutes), and some coverage is expected on the Cuomo show at 5PM PT.

I signed up for a free trial of fubo.tv, so I could DVR/watch them

 

[MonkeeSage]

NewsNation article promoting the upcoming interview includes an even more extraordinary claim

He alleges the U.S. has even retrieved bodies from other species
...
"Well, naturally, when you recover something that's either landed or crashed. Sometimes you encounter dead pilots and believe it or not, as fantastical as that sounds, it's true," he said.

Source: https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us-ufo-retrieval-program/

 

[JMartJr]

Re: Not human, but not necessarily space aliens confusion.

It is worth recalling that many modern UFO aficionados have moved off of the "Extraterrestrial Hypothesis" and are exploring such alternatives as time travelers, inter-dimensional beings, angels and demons, etc.

Space alien or Human are not the only two options they have under discussion any more.

 

[Mick West]

The Newsnation segment did not include much substansive beyond the article, which is essentially a summary of the segment.

One addition (I think) was a response from AARO via Susan Gough.

 

[deirdre]

Videos are one thing, but why would the DOD give the green light to go public with allegations of a massive cover up, wouldn't they object to that?

i'm not confident with wording i've read thus far, that he did get the green light to "go public". I would want to see the documentation.

Not that it matters hugely, i just find it interesting he tried to get certain info allegedly released, and then quit right after it was allegedly released...like Elizondo.

 

[jackfrostvc]

David G said he was told by ex intel people, many he knew came to him and told him(and showed him docs) that there was a program they were not being red into.

We also know that Lue Elizondo was his friend. Both ex intel and had been to afghanistan.

Source:
Source: https://twitter.com/LueElizondo/status/1665721919067258880


This, the best question, it's cued up, and to me sums it up. "Isn't he just repeating what somebody else told him and showed him" , the response - Yes


Source: https://youtu.be/ZSj7QsHRxHQ?t=565



Also, earlier in that Newsnation report above, there is an interview with Leslie Keane where Keane says David G didnt show her any docs. The reporter asked wasn't that a red flag. To that Keane says it's because it's all - inclduing the IG complaint, classified

 

[NorCal Dave]

Looking over the NewsNation article I saw this line (bold by me):

In his time at the UAP task force, Grusch said the group was refused access to a crash retrieval program.

It's not a direct quote, but it implies Grusch claimed that there was a "crash retrieval program", but members of the UAP task force, him included, were not allowed access. If he had NO access to this program how does he know what it did? He claims he was told about it (bold by me):

According to Grusch, that includes spacecraft from quite a number of other species.

"I thought it was totally nuts and I thought at first I was being deceived, it was a ruse," Grusch told Coulthart. "People started to confide in me. Approach me. I have plenty of senior, former, intelligence officers that came to me, many of which I knew almost my whole career, that confided in me that they were part of a program."

Grusch said those officials named the program, which he had never heard of before.

"They told me, based on their oral testimony, and they provided me documents and other proof, that there was in fact a program that the UAP Task Force was not read into," he said.

All sounds a bit 2nd hand at this point.

So, is his whistler blower complaint that there was a "crash retrieval program" that HE was told about and not allowed access to?

 

[NorCal Dave]

NewsNation article promoting the upcoming interview includes an even more extraordinary claim

He alleges the U.S. has even retrieved bodies from other species
...
"Well, naturally, when you recover something that's either landed or crashed. Sometimes you encounter dead pilots and believe it or not, as fantastical as that sounds, it's true," he said.

Source: https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us-ufo-retrieval-program/

Note that in the quote though, he doesn't actually say "aliens were recovered", it's just implied in the context of the story.

His statement would be completely accurate if he were describing Project Arizona/Jennifer, the CIA "recovery" of the sunken Soviet submarine K129 from the floor of the Pacific Ocean in 1974. Only partially successful, it managed to recover 1/3 of the sub that included the bodies of 6 Soviet sailors:

... during recovery operations, Clementine suffered a catastrophic failure, causing two-thirds of the already raised portion of K-129 to sink back to the ocean floor.

The bodies of six crewmen were also recovered, and were given a memorial service and with military honors,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian

So, a clandestine, at the time, recovery program that included bodies.

The same might be true if Gursch had been told about other recovery operations involving foreign or allied crashes and mishaps. His statement as presented, would be true and accurate. Just no aliens.

From the NewsNation article, this may give a hint as to where this goes:

Kean said the lack of documents or photographs from Grusch didn't raise red flags for her, though of course she would like to see those documents.

"The problem with that is all of that information is classified. As we said in the story, everything that Grusch told Congress and told the Department of Defense Inspector General, all of that information is classified," Kean said.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us-ufo-retrieval-program/

In essence, Grusch says he has passed classified information onto congress, while talking about what is in the classified information. However, any of the actual information backing up what he is saying is classified and is likely to stay that way.

 

[ventsyv]

In this video, when he's asked if there were bodies, he answers that if you recover a number of spacecraft sometimes there would be a pilot (paraphrasing, I'm on my phone)

To me it sounds like conjecture.

Too bad the reporter didn't clarify that part.


Source: https://youtu.be/ZSj7QsHRxHQ

 

[ventsyv]

They wouldn't give him a release to publish if any of it exposed anything classified


The government blocked portions of
Ali Soufan's book on enhanced interrogation for 9 years, despite the overall information being public knowledge

 

[Mendel]

NewsNation article promoting the upcoming interview includes an even more extraordinary claim

Source: https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us-ufo-retrieval-program/

via archive.org because of geo-lock:

Article:

In his time at the UAP task force, Grusch said the group was refused access to a crash retrieval program.

"These are retrieving non-human origin technical vehicles, call it spacecraft if you will, non-human exotic origin vehicles that have either landed or crashed," Grusch said.

According to Grusch, that includes spacecraft from quite a number of other species.

"I thought it was totally nuts and I thought at first I was being deceived, it was a ruse," Grusch told Coulthart. "People started to confide in me. Approach me. I have plenty of senior, former, intelligence officers that came to me, many of which I knew almost my whole career, that confided in me that they were part of a program."

Grusch said those officials named the program, which he had never heard of before.

"They told me, based on their oral testimony, and they provided me documents and other proof, that there was in fact a program that the UAP Task Force was not read into," he said. [...]

NewsNation has confirmed Grusch's credentials and resume, but has not seen or verified the alleged proof he said he provided to investigators. Grusch said he can't show NewsNation the evidence for national security reasons.

Grusch also said he has not seen photos of the alleged craft himself, but has spoken extensively with other intelligence officials who have.

[...]

"We're definitely not alone," Grusch confirmed "The data points, quite empirically that we're not alone."

Grusch also told NewsNation it isn't just spacecraft that have been recovered.

"Well, naturally, when you recover something that's either landed or crashed. Sometimes you encounter dead pilots and believe it or not, as fantastical as that sounds, it's true," he said.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20230606011615/https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us-ufo-retrieval-program/

 

[ventsyv]

I wonder if Leslie Kean, the reporter who broke this story, has had independent confirmation.

Because from the interview I watched, it sounded like she is placing her trust in Me Grush and his good reputation...

 

[Mendel]

So, a clandestine, at the time, recovery program that included bodies.

The same might be true if Gursch had been told about other recovery operations involving foreign or allied crashes and mishaps. His statement as presented, would be true and accurate. Just no aliens.

In the 1950s, missiles and satellites with animals were sent up—a chance to retrieve "spacecraft" with non-human pilots.

Grusch says he thought at first his friends were putting him on. That's going to be resolved as Congress gets testimony from these people.

Given that Grusch admitted he hasn't seen any photos, his claims are extraordinary.