David Grusch's DOPSR Cleared Statement and IG Complaint

[Haliate2854]

maybe if you look into Sol a bit more they have info? a Feb 8th trailer release has grusch listed as co-founder. (nothing interesting in video so i didnt link it)

A scholar! Thank you, I think I need to take a closer look at what Sol Foundation has put out. Also, you gave a pretty good guess earlier!!!!

kinda sounds like this D'agostino guy just has monthly "cool stuff" gatherings for his friends. Like a monthly book club but the book comes to you, instead of having to read it. or like personal Ted Talks for rich people. i guess it could be like monthly "Shark Tank" presentations, though.

I know its dailymail, but this is what they wrote

DailyMail.com has since verified that the meeting took place and was told by sources that Coinbase advisor John D'Agostino and high-powered attorney John J. Altorelli hosted the event.
Coinbase is a publicly traded company that operates a cryptocurrency exchange platform.
The two men are said to host monthly events at the penthouse apartment, focusing on different topics.
The leaker said: 'It was hosted by a Wall Street bigwig and his lawyer friend.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...histleblower-secret-talk-wall-street-nyc.html

 

[FatPhil]

In the ancient tradition of "IFYPFY" I fixed your post for you:

Mr. Grusch claims, via statement for the record to Ross Coulthart, that he may have incorrectly included his total time in uninformed service during the interview.

Honestly, that's what I read, even if that's not what MonkeySage actually wrote. ("uniformed" -> "uninformed")

 

[Mendel]

I wouldn't be surprised if SOL tried to link up with private groups that do, do public monitoring though. I forget the name but there's that one science group that tried to peddle the sensor box that'd activate at anything flying overhead & assess it supposedly. That was pretty snazzy if it wasn't a scam.

AARO is actually doing something similar (obviously not in secret).

Sensor Kits
And AARO's been around for about 18 months. And we just achieved initial operating capability, I would say, in October² of last year is when we actually were able to bring the staff on and start develop some of the sensors and the capabilities, the flyaway kits, so we could respond quickly when there's a UAP incident.
[² Eds. note: AARO achieved IOC in July 2023.]

MR. PHILLIPS: Sure. We're working with some of the government labs such as the Department of Energy labs. And we have a great partner with Georgia Tech. And what we're doing is developing a deployable configurable sensor suite that we can put in Pelican cases. And we're this — we're going to go be able to deploy it to the field to do a long-term collect.

Since the UAP target, the signature, is not clearly defined. We really have to do hyperspectral, you know, surveillance to try to capture these incidents. So we are going to declare a mission capability IOC for our GREMLIN system. That's the name of the deployable surveillance system that we've been developing for the last year.⁷

We're currently at a very large range in Texas. We've been out there going against some known UAS targets, but some unknown targets, picking up a lot of bats and birds. We're learning a lot about solar flaring. We're really starting to understand what's in orbit around our planet and how we can eliminate those as anomalous objects. So we're going to do that and then we're going to go to the department and say, we are ready to deploy our system in response to a national security site or a critical infrastructure with a UAP problem.

[⁷ Eds. note: While GREMLIN is approaching IOC, AARO is also in the early stages of developing a smaller suite of deployable sensors for rapid response to a UAP incident.]

Full transcript: https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...irector-tim-phillips-on-the-historical-recor/

 

[FatPhil]

I have a hard time believing that Grusch accidentally mischaracterized how long he had studying UAP or that the interviewers misinterpreted a direct quote attributed to him.

More seriously, yes, this isn't a good look. But mostly because it's not a good look *either way*. I personally don't care if he reinforces my prejudices of him by being serially unreliable or by being caught in direct lies, they both fit. Whether either of the possibilities tarnish his reputation amongst the true believers remains to be seen, no it doesn't, who am I kidding, of course they won't.

I was wondering whether Grusch has been seeing less of the public gaze recently because he'd perhaps said a bit too much, leaving a bit too much opportunity for contradictions to appear, so his puppetmasters have withdrawn him a bit - just brush him off with a C-suite role in some new flagship organisation, say, so he doesn't have to be so public facing any more? [impoliteness snipped]

Spoiler: last year

Remember that idiotic "body language experts" vid? I made a cryptic comment in that thread:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/david-grusch-body-language-and-word-pronunciation.12993/post-292198
"I'm actually very interested in something that Chase hinted at way earlier in the vid, and said that he would get back to later - he's spotted something that dovetails very curiously with something I've spotted and not yet heard anyone mention, and I wanna (oops!) know if he's going to end up where I went...."
And, because they never went anywhere near what I had surmised, there was no need to revisit what I was being coy about. Well, that and the suitability of what I thought for posting generally. Which of course still applies, but I went through the effort of watching and thinking, so I'm gonna dump what I thought back then here and now, and be done with it.
This is "where I went" last year:
- he came over as having relationship or home issues.
- he also came over has having some reputational-damage thing already hanging over his head (maybe something even "blackmaily").
- note, those weren't necessarily different, nor necessarily the same, I don't have infinite precision.
Two months later the substance abuse and mental health reports, including the police report of him asking his wife to kill him, broke. You can imagine my surprise.

 

[Skalman]

Did AARO even exist in April 2022? Was Kirkpatrick associated with AARO before July 2022? What did Grusch say to Kirkpatrick in April 2022? Did Grusch even speak to Kirkpatrick in April 2022? Why did he go to Kirkpatrick? I wish it made more sense and Congress would have asked tougher and more probing questions. The first question from Luna is so vague.

No, AARO didn't formally exist before July 2022, but it was in the works and it was known (at least to the people in the Pentagon that were interested) that Kirkpatrick would be the one to head it. We discussed it in another thread (you can start here where Mendel both gives me the answer and makes me look foolish at the same time for not following metabunk's "no paraphrasing" policy as well as not reading shit properly):

That's why Metabunk has a "no paraphrases" policy, requiring direct quotes. From the PDF you linked:

View attachment 63950

DoD press release:

Article:

July 20, 2022

Today, USD(I&S) Hon. Ronald S. Moultrie informed the department of the establishment of AARO within the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security, and named Dr. Sean M. Kirkpatrick, most recently the chief scientist at the Defense Intelligence Agency's Missile and Space Intelligence Center, as the director of AARO.

Source: https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3100053/dod-announces-the-establishment-of-the-all-domain-anomaly-resolution-office/

What happened is that in early 2022, Kirkpatrick was chosen to lead AARO, he sets up a staff roster and picks his personnel, and in July AARO is formally instituted and starts working. This fits both the quote from the bio and the press release with no contradiction, and makes sense.

It also explains why Grusch contacted Kirkpatrick back in April 2022—he'd have no reason to, unless he knew Kirkpatrick was picked to head up AARO (there had to be internal job listings etc. that Grusch would've been aware of).

P.S. Kirkpatrick's bio as linked from the DoD press release has the same phrasing.

Direct link to post: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/aaro-media-roundtable.13239/post-304965

 

[MonkeeSage]

Sean Kirkpatrick told Steven Greenstreet recently that he does not recall speaking to Grusch since Stratton and Grusch were spinning up UAPTF around 2019.

Article:

I barely knew Grusch. He never worked for me. He briefed me once that I can recall when I was Deputy Director of USSPACECOM, perhaps around 2019. I believe he came with Jay Stratton to discuss starting their research in the UAP task Force. I don't recall him prior to that time.

I don't know anymore now than I did at the time of those messages what he's talking about when he refers to "bad blood" since 2015. I was on assignment elsewhere at that time.

I had many people come to brief me. I also have a reputation for not suffering fools, and when briefers come in ill prepared and deliver a poorly thought through thesis, I will pick out the flaws in the argument. Perhaps he was one of those. No idea.

So, I had no relationship with Grusch. He never worked for me. The only thing I recall was him coming with Stratton. I have no idea what he's referring to.

Source: https://twitter.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1782428869888528777

 

[Mendel]

(you can start here where Mendel both gives me the answer and makes me look foolish at the same time for not following metabunk's "no paraphrasing" policy as well as not reading shit properly)

Seriously, hunting down quotes has saved my butt more times than I care to remember. The human memory is malleable—it comes up regularly on Metabunk when we discuss witness statements, but it also applies to ourselves.

 

[deirdre]

Also, you gave a pretty good guess earlier!!!!

not really, i read the Daily Mail article. plus in the Reddit "memory of guy who went to the penthouse presentation" he said

Article:

The idea was to get a group of both skeptics and believers from all these different walks of life for a talk regarding David and the things he has said

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/191yshx/david_grusch_first_hand_experience_he_was_part_of/

sounds more like a "focus group" for marketing purposes. Or a book club.

 

[Harabeck]

More seriously, yes, this isn't a good look. But mostly because it's not a good look *either way*. I personally don't care if he reinforces my prejudices of him by being serially unreliable or by being caught in direct lies, they both fit. Whether either of the possibilities tarnish his reputation amongst the true believers remains to be seen, no it doesn't, who am I kidding, of course they won't.

I have brain damage from arguing with a guy on reddit who claims that Grusch is being big-brained because AARO is an obvious honeypot. Their argument? The NDAA 2023 provision only protects direct witnesses of UAP, which is a nonsense reading of the law.

 

[Eburacum]

Although most of what he is bringing is all old, bunk or both, the fact that we know so little about this so-called UFO tracking system interests me, and I want to see this through because so far its the only new thing I have heard from Grusch.

Grusch seems to be saying that (while he was at the NRO) they found a way to 'track UAPs'.

There is another, (probably more accurate) interpretation of the same sequence of events; while Grusch was at the NRO they detected a number of sensor returns which they could not identify. These were probably unidentified, high-powered radar returns, but not necessarily so.

Unidentified radar and other sensor returns are quite commonplace, and sometimes they are difficult or impossible to explain; but this does not indicate necessarily that there are aliens (or extra-dimensional entities) involved.

 

[RTM]

I wonder if the tracking UAP claims are linked to Avi Loeb's organization.

 

[Haliate2854]

I wonder if the tracking UAP claims are linked to Avi Loeb's organization.

Hey there! I think you may have won, so I changed the rating to winner either way. They even have, on their details page, a "UAP Branch" section.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Loeb#The_Galileo_Project

I found this as well. I highlighted the relevant section, but I will quote it below too. They say they use AI to detect UAPs.

The UAP branch of the Galileo Project seeks to examine the possibility of extraterrestrial origin for UAP, by making observations of objects in and near Earth's atmosphere, filtering out identifiable objects using AI deep learning algorithms trained on rigorous classification of known objects, and then examining the nature of the remaining data for anomalous characteristics.

https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/organization

Unidentified radar and other sensor returns are quite commonplace, and sometimes they are difficult or impossible to explain; but this does not indicate necessarily that there are aliens (or extra-dimensional entities) involved.

Very well said. If they are tracking UAPs by using AI to detect them my interest in this has completely fell through. How upsetting. There goes the 1 thing that I found interesting about Davids claims, everything else was a boring blur I had seen or heard before. I was imagining some kind of control room where a bunch of people were watching UFOs enter Earth on a big screen, guess I have seen too many movies hahaha.

 

[Don Kielty]

Hey there! I think you may have won, so I changed the rating to winner either way. They even have, on their details page, a "UAP Branch" section.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Loeb#The_Galileo_Project
View attachment 68006
I found this as well. I highlighted the relevant section, but I will quote it below too. They say they use AI to detect UAPs.

https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/organization
View attachment 68007

Very well said. If they are tracking UAPs by using AI to detect them my interest in this has completely fell through. How upsetting. There goes the 1 thing that I found interesting about Davids claims, everything else was a boring blur I had seen or heard before. I was imagining some kind of control room where a bunch of people were watching UFOs enter Earth on a big screen, guess I have seen too many movies hahaha.

The Galileo Project was formed in 2021,so predates SOL by two years.Avi Loeb is very passionate in his search for extraterrestrial life and is indeed on the advisory board for SOL but I think in retrospect he may quietly remove himself.

 

[MonkeeSage]

Very well said. If they are tracking UAPs by using AI to detect them my interest in this has completely fell through. How upsetting. There goes the 1 thing that I found interesting about Davids claims, everything else was a boring blur I had seen or heard before. I was imagining some kind of control room where a bunch of people were watching UFOs enter Earth on a big screen, guess I have seen too many movies hahaha.

These were from the slide deck Grusch presented to DOD IG in 2021 (from previously mentioned FOIA document). I would think the "tracking UAP" might be more along these lines of just plotting and visualizing reports like this proposed SOAR system. Which does seem useful, just not doing as much as the reddit poster was maybe imagining based on the talk.

Source: https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/dod/DODOIG-2023-001013.pdf

 

[Haliate2854]

These were from the slide deck Grusch presented to DOD IG in 2021 (from previously mentioned FOIA document). I would think the "tracking UAP" might be more along these lines of just plotting and visualizing reports like this proposed SOAR system. Which does seem useful, just not doing as much as the reddit poster was maybe imagining based on the talk.

This is a winner. This is what I saw. I mistook one of these slides for a presentation he gave in NY. I am going through the document now, and that is the one.
"Strategic Anomaly and Observation Resolution (SOAR) Prototype" slide was the slide I saw that I said I found interesting as I had not heard of anything like it before, the GOALS part in particular. Of course now after you and a few other users chimed in with what you remembered it seems far less interesting, but being grounded in a good result!
I don't know how on Earth you remembered from what very little I said but I appreciate you taking your time to remedy my horrible memory.

 

[deirdre]

I was imagining some kind of control room where a bunch of people were watching UFOs enter Earth on a big screen, guess I have seen too many movies hahaha.

sounds like youre thinking of Skinwalker ranch. they have that fancy control room.

the sol foundation youtube page links all the 'ted talks' given last nov at their conference. I did a page search for "track" on a few speakers, but not Avi Loeb. One guy (forget his name) talked about luring uap to them... so kinda jives with how i took Grusch. My first thought was "MuFon already does that" (tracks uaps), then i figured it had to be fancier than that. like..one woman talked about using three telescopes to triangulate uaps. Then the "lure guy" said

Article:

30:35
were trying to figure out how we can lure UFOs into to study
them, um or make contact. right so how can you do this? um my colleague close
colleague and friend Matthew shagas was we we we finally settled on
the fact that UFOs have an interest in and an ability to detect nuclear weapons,
some of them underground some of them in bunkers or in storage Depot
um how do
they do this? are they using neutrinos or which are really hard to detect are they using gamma rays um we don't know but my
colleague has developed a new technology it is a basically handheld Lithium
powered nuclear fusion reactor which he's now patenting so he's developed a nuclear reactor and the idea is to go
out and power our UFO observing equipment with this new nuclear and maybe these guys will detect our
nuclear reactor and come down and find out what those crazy monkeys are up to this time and we can get some imagery or
some data so that's our that's our plan and we also have our new U apx we have a

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlYwktOj75A

 

[MapperGuy]

While he's kept a relatively low profile, Grusch hasn't been hiding. He been on a smattering of podcast since last fall and has also given some presentations outside the USG. I know I've read at least a couple articles about these presentations, but here's the only one I could find.

Now according to an anonymous attendee, Grusch recently gave a secret talk in New York to a group of investors, CIA and FBI officials, tech entrepreneurs and other prominent individuals.

Journalists have seemingly since confirmed that the event actually did take place and that it was hosted by Coinbase advisor John D'Agostino and attorney John J. Altorelli.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.c...grusch-allegedly-held-secret-talk-in-new-york

This meeting was held in Jan this year in NYC. Use of the word "secret" to describe the meeting can only mean the fact the meeting was even held was supposed to remain secret, it doesn't meant he violated security regs by providing secret/classified information to those civilian entrepreneurs in attendance. Besides, this sounds like he was looking for investors in something. Maybe Nolan's "Sol Foundation" UAP think tank, of which Grusch is the COO?

Mr. Grusch is not hiding from the public, he is hiding from AARO.

The danger is that if he goes in and tells all that AARO will discover that they have heard all of the things he has to say before from other people they have already interviewed. That they have identified all of the programs he has mentioned and determined that they are all either tall-tales from UFO-land, or classified programs AARO is aware of that have nothing to do with UAP's.

Mr Grusch would thus have walked into AARO as the Golden Boy who "Knows Things".
And walked out of AARO as a person that was taken advantage of by the Usual Suspects because they needed a fresh face to put in front of the cameras because the media has stopped paying attention to the old faces who no longer have credibility or generate headlines.

Mr. Grusch's ability to sell books and seminars or to attract investors for the Usual Suspects latest efforts could be greatly effected (in a negative way) by his talking to AARO. He will never talk to AARO, there is virtually no upside for him and considerable potential downside.

 

[Ann K]

From @MonkeeSage 's slide from Grusch:

1. Integrate an analytics package to create both standardized and customizable outputs for trend analysis and prediction

From @deirdre 's quotes, unknown speaker:

"trying to figure out how we can lure UFOs into to study"
"the fact that UFOs have an interest in and an ability to detect nuclear weapons"
"my colleague has developed a new technology it is a basically handheld Lithium powered nuclear fusion reactor"

Maybe it's too early in the day for my eyes, but this sort of thing makes me think I'm in an episode of the "Twilight Zone". Do these comments make any sense to anyone here, or is this just so much hand-waving and blue sky?

 

[Eburacum]

I have encountered the 'lure UFOs' trope before; I'm sure Steven Greer's Disclosure Project is intended 'summon' UFOs to provide evidence for their existence.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-reviews/close-encounters-fifth-kind-1288806/

Greer claims that in his youth he was not only visited by aliens but engaged in some kind of joint meditation with them. Together, they developed a "CE5 protocol," through which humans of goodwill could telepathically contact space travelers, sending out "vectors" that draw spacecraft to the humans' exact location.

-------------
I have encountered the "fact that UFOs have an interest in and an ability to detect nuclear weapons" before; this is part of the mythology presented by Robert Hastings and Robert Salas.
Thread about Robert Salas on Metabunk here
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/uf...e-flight-skeptical-resources.3284/#post-94602

-------------
The 'hand-held fusion device' sounds positively dangerous. I hope they have checked for neutron radiation...

 

[ced0412]

From @MonkeeSage 's slide from Grusch:

1. Integrate an analytics package to create both standardized and customizable outputs for trend analysis and prediction

From @deirdre 's quotes, unknown speaker:

"trying to figure out how we can lure UFOs into to study"
"the fact that UFOs have an interest in and an ability to detect nuclear weapons"
"my colleague has developed a new technology it is a basically handheld Lithium powered nuclear fusion reactor"

Maybe it's too early in the day for my eyes, but this sort of thing makes me think I'm in an episode of the "Twilight Zone". Do these comments make any sense to anyone here, or is this just so much hand-waving and blue sky?

I believe the source is Kevin Knuth, here is his SOL preso and below that is what I posted to reddit along time ago about that fusion reactor claim.

Then we have him claiming his colleague has a handheld reactor. The truth is it's a experiment that hasn't even been peer reviewed:

On Friday 12/8/2023, Assoc. Prof. Matthew Szydagis, the inventor of the concept, worked with physics PhD graduate student Andrew Knutson and retired Prof. Bill Lanford to test it at the Ion Beam Laboratory on UAlbany SUNY's uptown campus. While the results will require additional replication and external peer review of publications to ensure their robustness, the preliminary data are very promising, appearing to confirm the thousands of computer simulations performed by Prof. Szydagis over the past year.
https://www.albany.edu/physics/news...y-evidence-subcritical-chain-reaction-lithium

 

[FatPhil]

I believe the source is Kevin Knuth, here is his SOL preso and below that is what I posted to reddit along time ago about that fusion reactor claim.

So Knuth talks about "fusion", but your UA link says "UAlbany's work shows that light elements can undergo fission too, and Lithium is one of them".
What's a vowel between friends?

 

[NorCal Dave]

From @deirdre 's quotes, unknown speaker:

"trying to figure out how we can lure UFOs into to study"
"the fact that UFOs have an interest in and an ability to detect nuclear weapons"
"my colleague has developed a new technology it is a basically handheld Lithium powered nuclear fusion reactor"

And from @ced0412:

Then we have him claiming his colleague has a handheld reactor. The truth is it's a experiment that hasn't even been peer reviewed:

On Friday 12/8/2023, Assoc. Prof. Matthew Szydagis, the inventor of the concept, worked with physics PhD graduate student Andrew Knutson and retired Prof. Bill Lanford to test it at the Ion Beam Laboratory on UAlbany SUNY's uptown campus.

So, we have Szydagis, who seems to take all UFO stories at face value, developing a Star Trek like handheld reactor, not to power wells in deserts, or ER services in war zones, or even just let people live off grid or in case of power outages. No, this futuristic contraption is just the latest and greatest lure for UFO fishing.

As @Eburacum pointed out above, this UFOlogist's obsession with aliens and nukes is completely unfounded and is the result of so many in UFOlogy taking what have become the canonical versions of various stories as fact, without ever looking in to where the story comes from. And the smart guys at the UAPx program, like Szydagis and Knuth are no different.

Discussion of Szydagis' take on some classic UFO stories in this thread. The original OpEd from UAPx by Szydagis is no longer available:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/sz...op-at-the-canadian-and-mexican-borders.12705/

 

[NorCal Dave]

So Knuth talks about "fusion", but your UA link says "UAlbany's work shows that light elements can undergo fission too, and Lithium is one of them".
What's a vowel between friends?

Maby they know Mr. Fusion is already patented, so they're hedging a bit. Mr. Fusion, Uncle Fission, close enough.

 

[deirdre]

Maby they know Mr. Fusion is already patented, so they're hedging a bit. Mr. Fusion, Uncle Fission, close enough.

actually he does say "fission". 31:15 the youtube transcript got it wrong and i didnt notice (because fission/fusion same difference)

Source: https://youtu.be/HlYwktOj75A?t=1868

 

[jarlrmai]

A reactor doesn't necessarily mean a power generation device, reactors can be used to synthetise / breed elements etc.

 

[Harabeck]

A reactor doesn't necessarily mean a power generation device, reactors can be used to synthetise / breed elements etc.

Depending on how loosely they're using their terms, we could just be talking about a Farnsworth fusor. You can find online tutorials to build one at home.

 

[Mendel]

The 'hand-held [fission] device' sounds positively dangerous. I hope they have checked for neutron radiation...

Spoiler: demon core flail

Technically fits the definition.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

These were from the slide deck Grusch presented to DOD IG in 2021 (from previously mentioned FOIA document). I would think the "tracking UAP" might be more along these lines of just plotting and visualizing reports like this proposed SOAR system. Which does seem useful, just not doing as much as the reddit poster was maybe imagining based on the talk.

Source: https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/dod/DODOIG-2023-001013.pdf
View attachment 68012
View attachment 68013
View attachment 68014

Your comment hits a bit of a yes/no stride. This would be infrastructure part of "tracking" but not necessarily tracking in itself. You'd use this to as stated, visualize data you have. The "tracking" would be adjacent but fed into this. These sorts of systems exist for all sorts of matters, they've even got a few like this to monitor things like protests and food shortages - just data is fed into it, it's not necessarily the thing all together.

 

[MonkeeSage]

Your comment hits a bit of a yes/no stride. This would be infrastructure part of "tracking" but not necessarily tracking in itself. You'd use this to as stated, visualize data you have. The "tracking" would be adjacent but fed into this. These sorts of systems exist for all sorts of matters, they've even got a few like this to monitor things like protests and food shortages - just data is fed into it, it's not necessarily the thing all together.

That could be. There have been discussions about using civilian-operated passive radar to detect UAP for a long time, with a prototype finally developed in 2023 ( https://nuforc.org/skywatch/ ). There have also been several real-time reporting phone apps developed in the last few years (e.g., https://enigmalabs.io/ ). It's possible the talk was referring to potentially utilizing data sources like those for immediate "tracking" (though I would personally reserve the word "tracking" for something that was more active in nature rather than just fast collation and visualization of data).

 

[jarlrmai]

It all sounds like tracking reports/sightings of UAPS not tracking UAPs.

 

[Mendel]

It all sounds like tracking reports/sightings of UAPS not tracking UAPs.

And the interface hides the dodginess of the reports.

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

That could be. There have been discussions about using civilian-operated passive radar to detect UAP for a long time, with a prototype finally developed in 2023 ( https://nuforc.org/skywatch/ ). There have also been several real-time reporting phone apps developed in the last few years (e.g., https://enigmalabs.io/ ). It's possible the talk was referring to potentially utilizing data sources like those for immediate "tracking" (though I would personally reserve the word "tracking" for something that was more active in nature rather than just fast collation and visualization of data).

Great point here still. My only point of contention, which I will self-raise a fair counterpoint too, is these guys come from fields where terms as such are used in relatively specific manners. With that said, take any of the bunch and there's plenty of cases of them using terms out of that context to fit their narrative, so, fair counterpoint that he could've been mis-referencing there more in terms of what you mean.

 

[Harabeck]

And the interface hides the dodginess of the reports.

Now I'm imagining someone filing fake reports to draw silly shapes on their map.

 

[NorCal Dave]

It all sounds like tracking reports/sightings of UAPS not tracking UAPs.

And the interface hides the dodginess of the reports.

Indeed. It seems to be a great visualizing tool that tracks reports of UAPs, not actual UAPs. And when those reports are put on a cool spinning globe with interactive call ups for each report, it not only looks impressive, it presents a "sum is greater than the parts argument". Just look at all these reports of UAPs, surely something is going on!

It's almost like a giant graphic Gish Gallop. Anyone skeptical of this would be forced to click on each and every dot to first just see what it is. Then one can try to research whichever dot they clicked on. Meanwhile, the creators are off the next of the thousands of dots.

 

[jarlrmai]

Any large enough data set of reports of things that are unknown is eventually going to mimic a population map.

 

[JMartJr]

Any large enough data set of reports of things that are unknown is eventually going to mimic a population map.

Or non-unknown things, such as the distribution of Starbuck's Coffee shops as I posted elsewhere.

I'll admit that I was surprised that the bigfoot report maps did not diverge more from the population map than it did, since you'd expect Bigfoot to only be out in the wilderness if he's real, and for folks to strongly tend to report seeming him out in the wilderness if he does not exist since he supposedly is a wild animal out in the wilderness. Yeah, the map is a bit weighted towards wild areas, and there don;t seem to be any reports from Manhattan Island. But still...

 

[Harabeck]

I learned we have access to Grusch's resume, which is useful reference. Although not conclusive of anything, I do find it at least amusing that he was, as recently as April 2022, part of an information warfare unit.

EXPERIENCE
May 2023-Present, Chief Operating Officer (COO), The Sol Foundation
• Managing day-to-day operations for a 501c3 federally recognized non-profit.
The premier center for research in the natural and social sciences, engineering, and
the humanities, but also extends activities to advisory and policy work for the U.S.
government/public outreach.

November 2021-April 2023, Senior GEOINT Capabilities Requirements Officer, National
Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA), Colorado Springs, CO (GS-15, Colonel Equiv.)
• Lead SME for USSPACECOM National Support Team (NST) for cross agency
program integration. Senior Technical Advisor for UAP/Trans-Medium Issues.

April 2022-May 2023, Key Employee Augmentee, US Air Force Academy, Colorado
Springs, CO (USAF Reserve, O-4/Maj)
• Provided technical and scientific support for the cadet planetarium. Oversaw
technical operational matters and STEM engagement with faculty and general
public.

November 2021- April 2022, IMA to the Commander, 318 Cyber Operations Group,
Detachment 3, Nellis AFB, NV (USAF Reserve O-4/Maj in O-5/Lt Col Billet)
• Performed Commander duties as an augmentee for an active-duty unit. The
mission of the 318th Group is to be an information warfare group, training and
integrating advanced tactics, technologies, and tools arming America's
warfighters with decisive information warfare combat power.

April 2016 – November 2021, Senior Intelligence Officer, National Reconnaissance Office
(NRO), Chantilly, VA (USAF Reserve, O-4/Maj in a O-5/Lt Col Billet)
• Senior leadership team for a 24/7 watch center, conducts intelligence and threat
assessments, culminating to provide for the safety and security of National
Technical Means (NTM) and the agency's varied global interests. Acting NRO
Operations Center Intelligence Chief and interim agency lead for DoD Special
Access Programs Integration, Presidential Daily Brief (PDB) coordinator.
Serves as Deputy NRO Representative to USSPACECOM/J2 staff.

March 2016 – November 2021, Blue Sky Innovators Inc., Corporate Security Officer
(CSO), DoD-Contracted Science and Engineering Technical Advisor (SETA)
• Provides expert analysis and acquisition support to multiple program offices to
meet National Security Space (NSS), Offensive/Defensive Cyberspace
Operations, and Electronic Warfare objectives, to include work on advanced
new concepts, technical evaluations of performers, and proposal reviews on
behalf of the government. Provides SME to support to DARPA, SAF/AQL,
OSD/SCO, Navy OPNAV N9SP (SAPCO), and OSD-wide initiatives, to
include R&D demonstrations and DoD SAP portfolio management. CSO for
company and manages personnel security program for 60+ employees.

July 2014 – December 2016, Adjunct Professor, School of Security and Global Studies,
American Public University System (APUS)
• Undergraduate school professor developing technical coursework and program
plans. Expertly instructed courses in the Intelligence Studies track, to include
open source/social media analysis, signals and imagery analysis, and research
methods.

December 2013 – March 2016, Chief, Intelligence Integration Division, Space Security and
Defense Program (SSDP), Reston, VA (USAF Active Duty)
• Lead military intelligence officer for the SSDP Director, a member of the
Senior Executive Service (SES) advising the Deputy Secretary of Defense
(DEPSECDEF), Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence (PDDNI),
and National Security Council (NSC). Coordinated sensitive Multi-INT
collection activities and modeling/simulation to support national space security
objectives and advanced NSG programs. SSDP intelligence lead for the standup
of the National Space Defense Center (NSDC).

September 2011 – December 2013, Intelligence Flight Commander, 3d Space Experimentation
Squadron, Schriever AFB, CO (USAF Active Duty)
• Intel lead for Air Force Space Command's (now USSF's) premier organization
for space-based demonstrations, pathfinders and experiment testing. The unit
identifies concepts of employment, training, education, and technical skill sets
required to field selected future space missions. TCPED developer lead for the
stand-up of the Geosynchronous Space Situational Awareness Program
(GSSAP) pre-launch and supported X-37B OV program.

June 2009 – September 2011, Officer in Charge, Space Control Intelligence Cell, 21st
Operations Group, Peterson AFB, CO (USAF Active Duty)
• Acquired 7 months of Air Force Intelligence Officer training. Graduated with
94% academic test score average. Provided intelligence analysis and crafted
realistic training scenarios for a worldwide-deployable ground-based offensive
and defensive space control mission. Led timely, accurate, relevant and
predictive analysis and training to execute strategic missile warning and groundbased space situational awareness (SSA) operations worldwide.

Full document also attached.

 

[meta_gr8ful]

A chance meeting today with a former DoD coworker brought to mind an aspect of Grusch's IG "reprisal" complaint I hadn't considered previously. If the ICIG did/does does find he was a victim of reprisals, that could be grounds for reinstatement to his previous position. He'd also probably be entitled to his salary (somewhere in the $150K-$175K range) since he resigned, as well as benefits he would have accrued in that time.

Since you have mentioned Grusch's salary and seem to have an understanding about DoD staffing, I'm curious if you or anyone here has looked into how Grusch came to be employed by the NGA and at a GS-15 level.

According to Grusch's resume, he was a Air Force Reservist at the time he joined NGA and had an 0-4 Major rank. An 0-4 Major would be a GS-12 or GS-13 at best. So how was Grusch given this huge bump (65% bump in base pay by my research) up to a GS-15?

Prior to joining the NGA, Grusch had spent the preceding 5 years as a "Corporate Security Officer" with a tiny government/military/intelligence staffing provider called Blue Sky Innovators with only around 60 employees as Grusch's resume makes clear here:

"March 2016 – November 2021, Blue Sky Innovators Inc., Corporate Security Officer...
... CSO for company and manages personnel security program for 60+ employees."

Reading between the lines, it seems that Grusch would mostly have been processing security paperwork for Blue Sky's contractors, managing the facilities and equipment, and other similar job functions. In fact, Grusch obtained this very type of certification at the beginning of his 5 year employment with Blue Sky as is spelled out in his resume:

2016 - Facility Security Officer (FSO), Center for Development & Security Excellence (CDSE)

"Corporate Security Officer" for a small staffing provider is not an especially glamorous role and likely wouldn't have been the most financially lucrative. Indeed, it appears Grusch was looking to transition into real estate or, at least, supplement his income while at Blue Sky as is evidenced by his obtaining his "Licensed Real Estate Broker (Colorado)" license in 2020.

Grusch does obtain a few additional intelligence-tangential certs while at Blue Sky, including:

"2019 HUMINT Intelligence Reporting Program Control Officer Training, McLean, VA
2020 Intelligence Fundamentals Professional Certification (IFPC), USD(I&S)"

Neither cert is particularly noteworthy. Pretty standard stuff for someone overseeing security for a staffing provider specializing in providing contractors to the military and intelligence communities.

Grusch has said that he became involved with the UAP Task Force through his position with the National Reconnaissance Office. This seems somewhat odd because he was a Reservist at the time by his own admission. Why would a Reservist serving a few weeks per year be tasked with this kind of position???

Kirkpatrick has said he last met with Grusch sometime in 2019 when Grusch and Stratton were first beginning their UAP Task Force investigation.

"I barely knew Grusch. He never worked for me. He briefed me once that I can recall when I was Deputy Director of USSPACECOM, perhaps around 2019. I believe he came with Jay Stratton to discuss starting their research in the UAP task Force. I don't recall him prior to that time.I don't know anymore now than I did at the time of those messages what he's talking about when he refers to "bad blood" since 2015. I was on assignment elsewhere at that time.I had many people come to brief me. I also have a reputation for not suffering fools, and when briefers come in ill prepared and deliver a poorly thought through thesis, I will pick out the flaws in the argument. Perhaps he was one of those. No idea.So, I had no relationship with Grusch. He never worked for me. The only thing I recall was him coming with Stratton. I have no idea what he's referring to."

So how did a USAF Reservist working a few weeks per year get connected with Jay Stratton in the first place?

More importantly, who was responsible for getting Grusch his full-time position and giant pay grade bump to GS-15?

Grusch's proceeding work at Blue Sky hardly seems to warrant such a big bump in pay. Grusch would have needed some kind of sponsorship for this bump in pay and that should create a papertrail.

If an O-4 Major is assigned to a position that is typically designated for a higher rank or a higher General Schedule (GS) level, it generally requires specific documentation and approval to formalize the arrangement. Here are the key steps and considerations involved:

1. Position Justification and Documentation

• Job Description and Position Justification: A detailed job description outlining the duties and responsibilities of the position must be created. This document must justify why an O-4 Major is suitable for the role despite the position typically being intended for a higher rank.
• Request for Personnel Action (RPA): An RPA may be initiated to formally request the assignment. This form outlines the specifics of the position and the qualifications of the individual being assigned.

2. Sponsorship and Approval

• Sponsorship: A higher-ranking officer or official within the organization typically sponsors the request. The sponsor supports the justification for assigning the individual to the higher position.
• Command Approval: The request must be approved by the appropriate command authority. This might include the unit commander, higher headquarters, or relevant personnel office.

3. Waivers and Exceptions

• Waivers: Depending on the organization's policies and the nature of the position, a waiver might be required to bypass the standard rank requirements. This waiver must be documented and approved by the appropriate authority.
• Exceptions to Policy: If the assignment significantly deviates from standard policies, an exception to policy may be required. This process involves a thorough review and approval by higher-level authorities.

4. Coordination with Human Resources

• Coordination with HR: The personnel or human resources office will coordinate the necessary paperwork and ensure that all legal and regulatory requirements are met. This includes updating official records and ensuring compliance with Department of Defense (DoD) regulations.

5. Training and Certification

• Additional Training: If the position requires specific training or certification that the O-4 Major does not currently possess, arrangements may be made to provide the necessary training.
• Professional Development: The individual may be placed in a professional development program to prepare for the higher responsibilities.

6. Monitoring and Evaluation

• Performance Monitoring: The individual's performance in the higher position is typically closely monitored. Regular evaluations ensure that the individual is meeting the expected standards and performing effectively in the role.

Sources and References

• Department of Defense Instructions and Manuals: Relevant DoD instructions and manuals provide guidelines on personnel assignments and position classifications. For example, DoD Instruction 1400.25, Volume 431, covers the performance management program for the GS and equivalent personnel.
• Personnel Office Guidelines: Specific guidelines from the personnel office or human resources department within the service branch can provide detailed procedures for processing such assignments.

By following these steps and ensuring all required documentation and approvals are obtained, an O-4 Major can be formally assigned to a position typically designated for a higher rank.

Has anyone investigated this particular aspect of Grusch's service?

 

[meta_gr8ful]

I learned we have access to Grusch's resume, which is useful reference. Although not conclusive of anything, I do find it at least amusing that he was, as recently as April 2022, part of an information warfare unit.

EXPERIENCE
May 2023-Present, Chief Operating Officer (COO), The Sol Foundation
• Managing day-to-day operations for a 501c3 federally recognized non-profit.
The premier center for research in the natural and social sciences, engineering, and
the humanities, but also extends activities to advisory and policy work for the U.S.
government/public outreach.

November 2021-April 2023, Senior GEOINT Capabilities Requirements Officer, National
Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA), Colorado Springs, CO (GS-15, Colonel Equiv.)
• Lead SME for USSPACECOM National Support Team (NST) for cross agency
program integration. Senior Technical Advisor for UAP/Trans-Medium Issues.

April 2022-May 2023, Key Employee Augmentee, US Air Force Academy, Colorado
Springs, CO (USAF Reserve, O-4/Maj)
• Provided technical and scientific support for the cadet planetarium. Oversaw
technical operational matters and STEM engagement with faculty and general
public.

November 2021- April 2022, IMA to the Commander, 318 Cyber Operations Group,
Detachment 3, Nellis AFB, NV (USAF Reserve O-4/Maj in O-5/Lt Col Billet)
• Performed Commander duties as an augmentee for an active-duty unit. The
mission of the 318th Group is to be an information warfare group, training and
integrating advanced tactics, technologies, and tools arming America's
warfighters with decisive information warfare combat power.

April 2016 – November 2021, Senior Intelligence Officer, National Reconnaissance Office
(NRO), Chantilly, VA (USAF Reserve, O-4/Maj in a O-5/Lt Col Billet)
• Senior leadership team for a 24/7 watch center, conducts intelligence and threat
assessments, culminating to provide for the safety and security of National
Technical Means (NTM) and the agency's varied global interests. Acting NRO
Operations Center Intelligence Chief and interim agency lead for DoD Special
Access Programs Integration, Presidential Daily Brief (PDB) coordinator.
Serves as Deputy NRO Representative to USSPACECOM/J2 staff.

March 2016 – November 2021, Blue Sky Innovators Inc., Corporate Security Officer
(CSO), DoD-Contracted Science and Engineering Technical Advisor (SETA)
• Provides expert analysis and acquisition support to multiple program offices to
meet National Security Space (NSS), Offensive/Defensive Cyberspace
Operations, and Electronic Warfare objectives, to include work on advanced
new concepts, technical evaluations of performers, and proposal reviews on
behalf of the government. Provides SME to support to DARPA, SAF/AQL,
OSD/SCO, Navy OPNAV N9SP (SAPCO), and OSD-wide initiatives, to
include R&D demonstrations and DoD SAP portfolio management. CSO for
company and manages personnel security program for 60+ employees.

July 2014 – December 2016, Adjunct Professor, School of Security and Global Studies,
American Public University System (APUS)
• Undergraduate school professor developing technical coursework and program
plans. Expertly instructed courses in the Intelligence Studies track, to include
open source/social media analysis, signals and imagery analysis, and research
methods.

December 2013 – March 2016, Chief, Intelligence Integration Division, Space Security and
Defense Program (SSDP), Reston, VA (USAF Active Duty)
• Lead military intelligence officer for the SSDP Director, a member of the
Senior Executive Service (SES) advising the Deputy Secretary of Defense
(DEPSECDEF), Principal Deputy Director of National Intelligence (PDDNI),
and National Security Council (NSC). Coordinated sensitive Multi-INT
collection activities and modeling/simulation to support national space security
objectives and advanced NSG programs. SSDP intelligence lead for the standup
of the National Space Defense Center (NSDC).

September 2011 – December 2013, Intelligence Flight Commander, 3d Space Experimentation
Squadron, Schriever AFB, CO (USAF Active Duty)
• Intel lead for Air Force Space Command's (now USSF's) premier organization
for space-based demonstrations, pathfinders and experiment testing. The unit
identifies concepts of employment, training, education, and technical skill sets
required to field selected future space missions. TCPED developer lead for the
stand-up of the Geosynchronous Space Situational Awareness Program
(GSSAP) pre-launch and supported X-37B OV program.

June 2009 – September 2011, Officer in Charge, Space Control Intelligence Cell, 21st
Operations Group, Peterson AFB, CO (USAF Active Duty)
• Acquired 7 months of Air Force Intelligence Officer training. Graduated with
94% academic test score average. Provided intelligence analysis and crafted
realistic training scenarios for a worldwide-deployable ground-based offensive
and defensive space control mission. Led timely, accurate, relevant and
predictive analysis and training to execute strategic missile warning and groundbased space situational awareness (SSA) operations worldwide.

Full document also attached.

Interestingly, if you look at the private military/intelligence staffing company Grusch worked at for the 5 years just before joining the NGA and UAP Task Force (allegedly), the CEO of the company, Blue Sky Innovators, describes his own work on his LinkedIn profile as follows:

"Tim Tkacz is a Science and Engineering Technical Advisor (SETA) with Blue Sky Innovators supporting several programs at the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) including Rapid Attack Detection, Isolation and Characterization Systems (RADICS), Cyber Fault-tolerant Attack Recovery (CFAR), Communications in Contested Environments (C2E), and several classified cyber efforts. Previous programs supported include ADAPTable Sensor System (ADAPT), Integrated Sensor is Structure (ISIS), Flow based Information Theory Tracking (FITT), and Large Area Coverage Search-while-Track and Engage (LACOSTE). His interests are focused on warfare technologies critical to the DoD including cyber physical systems, tactical airborne communications, and unmanned systems.

Prior to working at DARPA, Tim was a Program Manager supporting several Navy programs including the Littoral Surveillance Radar System (LSRS), the Advanced Sensor Technology (AST) Program and several others. His early work focused on the development and demonstration of advanced capabilities for ship, aircraft and sensor systems."

Somewhat odd that the CEO is clearly involved in developing exactly the kind of sensors that would be used to detect UAPs.

Given Grusch's role as "Corporate Security Officer" at Blue Sky at the time he was a part-time Reservist who somehow managed to get on Jay Stratton's radar and asked to join the UAP Task Force in 2019, one might question how Stratton even knew who Grusch was.

One possible hypothesis to investigate...

Perhaps Grusch processed paperwork for Blue Sky contractors (including their CEO) that he believed were UAP-related and/or were not programs subject to Congressional oversight. He gets tipsy at a UFO conference and spins up stories about having insider knowledge about UAP SAP programs. Stratton and others in the AAWSAP crew get him a high-paying gig with the NGA to "investigate" these and other programs.

It's a hypothesis, of course, but Grusch was a 0-4 at the time he joined NGA as a GS-15. An 0-4 should be at a GS-12 or GS-13 pay grade. Grusch would have required someone sponsoring him to receive this massive (65% by my research) bump in pay. And this would most definitely create a papertrail that could be FOIA'd.

 

[meta_gr8ful]

IG complaints have become the weapon of choice against government agencies by employees/former employees seeking public acceptance of their agendas. They know the government can't release IG findings/reports, so they totally control the narrative. Additionally, they also know the cost of filing an IG complaint is, as the old saying goes, that of a postage stamp.

Much tidier and cheaper than messy civil law suits where the proceedings are, for the most part, in the public domain and therefore open to public scrutiny and review. To go a step further, there's nothing prohibiting someone from filing a civil law suit seeking damages and introducing IG findings/reports in evidence. Would sound pretty impressive to a jury to hear a plaintiff's case built around an official government investigation that supported the filer's claims. Wonder why Elizondo hasn't done that?

It's information laundering. File documents they can then cite. That said, a close reading of Elizondo's IG complaint where he details pretty much everything he actually did for AATIP from his biased perspective still shows he wasn't doing much at all.