Pentagon ex-UFO chief says conspiracy theorists in government drive spending

[yoshy]

Pentagon ex-UFO chief says conspiracy theorists in government drive spending

Conspiracy theorists working for and within the US government are perpetuating myths about UFOs that millions of taxpayer dollars are then spent looking into, a "self-licking ice cream cone", according to the Pentagon's former chief investigator of unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP).

But many lawmakers, he insists, are only too happy to embrace unsubstantiated stories circulated by "a core group of people" about secret government UFO research programs. Those include startling claims from the former US intelligence official and whistleblower David Grusch last year about intact alien vehicles and non-human "biologics", or biological matter, stored at a remote facility.

"They're the same people that worked with a US company and the US army to explore a piece of material that they claim was a UAP and really is a piece of missile casing from the 1950s. They're the same people that have been influencing some of these whistleblowers who have come forward to say: 'Hey, I don't have any first-hand evidence, but all these people are telling me this.'"

Exactly as many here suspected

 

[FatPhil]

Pentagon ex-UFO chief says conspiracy theorists in government drive spending
Exactly as many here suspected

"Kirkpatrick declined to identify the people by name" :-(
He could at least give them semi-cryptic pseudonyms, and give us something new, and this time actually fun and interesting, to speculate about.

 

[Mendel]

Pentagon ex-UFO chief says conspiracy theorists in government drive spending

Link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/27/sean-kirkpatrick-pentagon-ufo-conspiracy-theory-myths

Sean Kirkpatrick made the claim in a podcast this week after stepping down last month as the first director of the defense department's all-domain anomaly resolution office (Aaro).

Podcast referenced here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/da...-statement-and-ig-complaint.12989/post-310235

Kirkpatrick said in a resignation essay published by Scientific American last week that he feared lawmakers had succumbed to "conspiracy-driven decision-making" and sensationalism in their rush to "uncover the cover-up".

Scientific American essay referenced and discussed here: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/da...-statement-and-ig-complaint.12989/post-309629

Aaro's first comprehensive historical record report, which has been submitted to Congress and is set for publication later this year, contains no evidence of the existence of alien life, or any government cover-up, Kirkpatrick says.

When that report comes out, that'll definitely be worth a thread of its own.

Sundry excerpts (The Guardian quoting Sean Kirkpatrick on the podcast):

"The best thing that could have happened in this job is I found the aliens, and I could have rolled them out, but there's none. There is no evidence of extraterrestrials. There is no evidence of aliens, and there's no evidence of the government conspiracy."

"When you dig into those kinds of observations, and we had hundreds, you go back and work with the pilot, you work with the sensor, and you reconstruct the entire engagement, nine times out of 10 or more that turns into an optical illusion that we call parallax," he said.

"Most of the times when we can't give an explanation, it is because there is a lack of data, and by that I mean consistent, solid, recorded data that you can put into a computer and you can do analysis on."

 

[Haliate2854]

He could at least give them semi-cryptic pseudonyms, and give us something new, and this time actually fun and interesting, to speculate about.

It isnt much, but there is this.
There were 2 names Kirkpatrick did mention in this interview, because he said they've already been widely documented and were very public about it, and those 2 names were Harry Reid and Robert Bigelow. The exact time this is said is 28:5o, you don't need an apple account or anything to listen to this podcast

Source: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/is-the-pentagon-really-hiding-crashed-alien-spaceships/id1685702585?i=1000642602121

But I have doubts those names will make it into his report.

 

[Ann K]

There were 2 names Kirkpatrick did mention in this interview, because he said they've already been widely documented and were very public about it, and those 2 names were Harry Reid and Robert Bigelow.

Bigelow is a major political donor, and perhaps that influences the amount of attention Congress gives to his pet UFO beliefs.

Jan 30 (Reuters) - Hotelier Robert Bigelow told Reuters on Tuesday he gave Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump $1 million for his legal fees and agreed to donate another $20 million to a pro-Trump outside group for campaign purposes.
......
Bigelow, who also founded Bigelow Aerospace and funds investigations into extraterrestrial life, said he felt Trump was being unfairly targeted in the criminal cases and that his sympathy towards the former president had motivated the donation.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/do...legal-fees-donate-20-million-more-2024-01-30/

 

[NorCal Dave]

Bigelow is a major political donor, and perhaps that influences the amount of attention Congress gives to his pet UFO beliefs.

Jan 30 (Reuters) - Hotelier Robert Bigelow told Reuters on Tuesday he gave Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump $1 million for his legal fees and agreed to donate another $20 million to a pro-Trump outside group for campaign purposes.
......
Bigelow, who also founded Bigelow Aerospace and funds investigations into extraterrestrial life, said he felt Trump was being unfairly targeted in the criminal cases and that his sympathy towards the former president had motivated the donation.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/do...legal-fees-donate-20-million-more-2024-01-30/

He was an equal sided doner, having given a chunk to Ried, a democrat. He gave a lot less to Ried, around $10k if I remember, over several years, but in a smaller population state like Nevada that still helpful.

But I have doubts those names will make it into his report.

In that podcast it seems no, but we can infer a few of them. Given Mellon's tweets covered in other treads on Grusch's statements, Puthoff and Davis are at least 2 of them. Kirkpatrick also gives cluse to follow about some others that were testing meta-materials, so something to look into.

 

[Slow Joe]

How in the world can pilots not know what parallax is? Aren't pilots trained to fly by instruments alone because their eye's cannot tell the difference between the sky and sea in some weather conditions?

 

[Mendel]

There were 2 names Kirkpatrick did mention in this interview, because he said they've already been widely documented and were very public about it, and those 2 names were Harry Reid and Robert Bigelow.

That's inferred because he mentioned AAWSAP in the SA essay, where he linked to Greenstreet's dossier; we discussed that in the other thread. AAWSAP directly involved Elizondo (and Mellon?), too. Maybe it'd be worthwhile to look at his other links?

Chuck Schumer referenced Harry Reid last year when the new UAP bill was introduced (how much of it was passed?), so he does still have a posthumous effect on politics.

 

[Haliate2854]

It looks as if a date for the report has been given. The date given was March 7th, by Sean to Steven Greenstreet, but there was a "probably" inserted in there.

Source: https://twitter.com/MiddleOfMayhem/status/1762150108127461798?s=20

I am posting it here as I think this is the most relevant place to post it considering the thread title is "Pentagon ex-UFO chief says conspiracy theorists in government drive spending".
Sorry to the mods if this is not on topic.

 

[Mendel]

It looks as if a date for the report has been given. The date given was March 7th, by Sean to Steven Greenstreet, but there was a "probably" inserted in there.

I understand the report was completed in December:

One of my last acts before retiring was to sign AARO's Historical Record Report Volume 1, which is currently being prepared for delivery to Congress and the public.

Apparently, it has been clearing red tape since then. With no official release date, for a release set next week (!), I'd be wary of a prediction as well.

 

[yoshy]

I am posting it here as I think this is the most relevant place to post it considering the thread title is "Pentagon ex-UFO chief says conspiracy theorists in government drive spending".
Sorry to the mods if this is not on topic.

Thanks for the update! Once the report gets released, that will definitely warrant a new thread

 

[Haliate2854]

Once the report gets released, that will definitely warrant a new thread

I also think a new thread is the best option, this report in my opinion is a huge huge huge deal and deserves its own space to be discussed as a single topic. This just happened to be the one place I thought it belonged before the report hits, but I agree with the previous posts and yourself. This report needs a new thread when its released.

 

[Mendel]

Thanks for the update! Once the report gets released, that will definitely warrant a new thread

See https://www.metabunk.org/threads/aaros-historical-uap-report-volume-1.13375/ .

 

[Resistor]

There are government officials, DOD personnel, defense contractors that want to know the "truth about exterrestrial aliens, UFO's/UAP's." They are motivated by 1) the fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) that exterestrial aliens exist and do they pose a threat to the Homeland, our species? 2) the money to fund the research into this topic to perpetuate the FUD. 3) scientific curiosity, religious idology or self ego from being the one to prove the existance.

This DOD knowledge repository is available to the public - https://discover.dtic.mil/ to find unclassified/declassified reports on any topic including UFO's, UAP's.

This RAND study took a scientific approach to identify geographic clusters of UAP reports - https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/trecms/pdf/AD1206696.pdf

The summary stated "The most consistent—and statistically significant—finding from our models was for reports of UAP sightings in areas within 30 km of MOAs. According to the FAA, "MOAs are established to contain nonhazardous, military flight activities," including air combat maneuvers, air intercepts, and low-altitude tactics. Given this association, we suspect that some of the self-reports of UAP sightings to NUFORC are authorized aircraft flying within MOAs. However, it was beyond the scope of this research to confirm the context of these UAP self-reports beyond their documented locations in the NUFORC database".

External Quote:

"When you dig into those kinds of observations, and we had hundreds, you go back and work with the pilot, you work with the sensor, and you reconstruct the entire engagement, nine times out of 10 or more that turns into an optical illusion that we call parallax," he said.

"Most of the times when we can't give an explanation, it is because there is a lack of data, and by that I mean consistent, solid, recorded data that you can put into a computer and you can do analysis on."

This unclassified report discusses the concept of Multi-Domain or Joint all Domain Command and Control (MDC2/JADC2). This war-fighting capability was developed using ISR sensors, hardware and software that Kirkpatrick's team would have access to verify DOD sourced UAP reporting.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1107494.pdf
Outsmarting Agile Adversaries - https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1191104.pdf
The scientific study of UFO's Univ of Colorado Report - https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/AD0680975.pdf

 

[NorCal Dave]

This RAND study took a scientific approach to identify geographic clusters of UAP reports

Nothing against the Rand people, but I've argued in other threads that when the source material is from NUFORC or MUFON it's hardly a random or cross section of society. It's reports from people, at least some of whom, already know there is a NUFORC or MUFON to report to. I understand that the FAA does sometimes refer people to NUFORC which can give it the appearance of "official" or at least the "government sanctioned or approved" place to make UFO reports. Something I disagree with:

The website and hotline are well known by law enforcement agencies, FAA ARTCC's and flight service stations, National Weather Services offices, military facilities, NASA, and many 911 emergency dispatch centers all across the United States and in many parts of Canada. Those entities routinely direct the calls they receive regarding possible UFO sightings to the Center.

The reality is that between 1974 and 1994 NUFORC was one guy, Robert Gribble, sitting in his home office in Washington collecting UFO reports, then it went online:

The National UFO Reporting Center was founded in 1974 by noted UFO investigator Robert J. Gribble. The Center's primary function over the past five decades has been to receive, record, and to the greatest degree possible, corroborate and document reports from individuals who have been witness to unusual, possibly UFO-related events. Throughout its history, the Center has processed over 170,000 reports, and has distributed its information to thousands of individuals.

The principal means used by the Center to receive sighting reports is this website, which has operated continuously since 1995. Prior to that period, the telephone hotline and the U.S. mail were the primary means of taking reports.

https://nuforc.org/about-us/

Since 1994, NUFORC has been run by Peter Davenport, who has seen multiple UFOs and lectures on the Pheonix lightes event:

Peter Davenport has been director of the National UFO Reporting Center since 1994. He has also served as the director of investigations for the Washington Chapter of the Mutual UFO Network. He often presents lectures on specific UFO cases, most notably the Phoenix Lights sighting.

Peter has had an active interest in the UFO phenomenon from his early boyhood. He experienced his first UFO sighting over the St. Louis municipal airport in the summer of 1954, and he investigated his first UFO case during the summer of 1965 in Exeter, New Hampshire. He has also been witness to several subsequent anomalous events, possibly UFO related, including a dramatic sighting over Baja California in February 1990, and several nighttime sightings over Washington State during 1992.

https://nuforc.org/about-us/

His views on the Pheonix lights:

Most of the controversy that arose from the incident centers around a cluster of lights that was seen, and videotaped, to the south of Phoenix at between 9:30 and 10:00 p.m. on the same night as the sightings. In May 1997, the Public Affairs Office at Luke AFB announced that their personnel had investigated these lights, and had established that they were flares launched from A-10 "Warthog" aircraft over the Gila Bend "Barry M. Goldwater" Firing Range at approximately 10:00 p.m.. Even the most implacable UFO skeptics admit, however, that irrespective of whether such flares had in fact been launched or not, they cannot serve as an explanation for the objects that had been witnessed by many individuals some 1-2 hours earlier.

Investigators may never be able to re-assemble all of the facts surrounding the events that took place over Arizona on the night of March 13, 1997. However, there is no doubt in the minds of most that what occurred was extraordinarily bizarre in nature, and that many thousands of witnesses can attest to the events.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case270.htm

So again, it's a data set complied by UFO enthusiasts and served as the data set for Rand:

We used NUFORC data as a starting point to examine the geographic distribution of UAP reports. Reporting of UAP sightings follows a three-step approach: (1) A person witnesses unexplained activity (usually, but not always) in the sky, (2) the witness reports what they observed to NUFORC, and (3) NUFORC reviews the report for obvious hoaxes before entering the sighting into its database.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/trecms/pdf/AD1206696.pdf

Even given that, Rand did find as you noted, people see a lot of UFOs around military training airspace. As would be expected:

Both of these models found inconsistent results in the relationship between the nearest military installations and self-reports of UAP sightings. For example, there was a higher likelihood of UAP reports in areas that were within 60.1 km to 120 km of a Marine Corps installation, as compared with 30.1 km to 60 km, but there was some evidence that reports were less likely in areas within 30 km of these same installations.

What's interesting is that Rand could find that a lot of NUFORC sightings occurred near training areas, something NUFROC could not. In fact when a major portion of a UFO sighting, like the Pheonix lights DID occur in a training area with confirmed training going on, the head of NUFORC is doubtful of this solution.

EDIT: I consistently seem to type NUFORC as NUFROC. Fixed it.
EDIT,EDIT: It seems I confused the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) with high school kids that rase pigs for the local fair, Future Farmers of America, FFA. Fixed it .

 

[MonkeeSage]

We previously discussed the Rand study in this thread: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ra...and-domestic-us-military-installations.13106/

Rand also released an op-ed to go along with the report that explains their interpretations of their findings.

Article:

We analyzed 101,151 reports of aerial phenomena made between 1998 and 2022 from 12,783 U.S. Census Bureau designated places. The data came from the National UFO Reporting Center, a non-government entity that the FAA references in official documents for where to report unexplained phenomena. (We make no endorsement of this dataset, nor any individual reports logged within it.)

Using these data, we looked for predictors — such as distance to military installations, military operations areas or weather stations — for what had been reported.

Being within about 20 miles of a military operations area was consistently associated with higher rates of public UAP reports. These areas are where various military flight activities occur, like training for air combat maneuvers, intercepts and low altitude tactics. But they are not necessarily located near military installations.

For example, there are military operations areas above Jamaica, Vermont; Storm Lake, Iowa; and off the coast of Sheboygan, Wisconsin. We suspect that many people don't realize that they are living, working or traveling around these vast and often remote operations areas — nor are they aware when various military exercises are taking place.

UAPs were significantly less likely to be reported in areas near weather stations, or near midsize or large civilian airports. Our hypothesis is that people in these places were more aware of the aerial activity nearby, so less likely conclude what they'd seen overhead was a UAP/UFO.

Source: https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4117220-ufos-are-not-the-only-potential-threat-in-american-skies/

 

[JMartJr]

I understand that the FFA does sometimes refer people to NUFROC

FFA?

 

[NorCal Dave]

FFA?

For God's sake!! I seem to have butchered every acronym possible in that post. Mendal already pointed out to me that I typed NUFROC multiple times, so I corrected that. Fortunately, I can still correct FFA to FAA. And for the record, I was NOT typing that during cocktail hour, which is now, rather at lunch. Thanks.

EDIT: FFA is Future Farmers of America, which is for high school level kids doing Ag stuff. Just to clarify.

 

[Resistor]

Nothing against the Rand people, but I've argued in other threads that when the source material is from NUFORC or MUFON it's hardly a random or cross section of society. It's reports from people, at least some of whom, already know there is a NUFORC or MUFON to report to. I understand that the FAA does sometimes refer people to NUFORC which can give it the appearance of "official" or at least the "government sanctioned or approved" place to make UFO reports. Something I disagree with:

The website and hotline are well known by law enforcement agencies, FAA ARTCC's and flight service stations, National Weather Services offices, military facilities, NASA, and many 911 emergency dispatch centers all across the United States and in many parts of Canada. Those entities routinely direct the calls they receive regarding possible UFO sightings to the Center.

The reality is that between 1974 and 1994 NUFORC was one guy, Robert Gribble, sitting in his home office in Washington collecting UFO reports, then it went online:

The National UFO Reporting Center was founded in 1974 by noted UFO investigator Robert J. Gribble. The Center's primary function over the past five decades has been to receive, record, and to the greatest degree possible, corroborate and document reports from individuals who have been witness to unusual, possibly UFO-related events. Throughout its history, the Center has processed over 170,000 reports, and has distributed its information to thousands of individuals.

The principal means used by the Center to receive sighting reports is this website, which has operated continuously since 1995. Prior to that period, the telephone hotline and the U.S. mail were the primary means of taking reports.

https://nuforc.org/about-us/

Since 1994, NUFORC has been run by Peter Davenport, who has seen multiple UFOs and lectures on the Pheonix lightes event:

Peter Davenport has been director of the National UFO Reporting Center since 1994. He has also served as the director of investigations for the Washington Chapter of the Mutual UFO Network. He often presents lectures on specific UFO cases, most notably the Phoenix Lights sighting.

Peter has had an active interest in the UFO phenomenon from his early boyhood. He experienced his first UFO sighting over the St. Louis municipal airport in the summer of 1954, and he investigated his first UFO case during the summer of 1965 in Exeter, New Hampshire. He has also been witness to several subsequent anomalous events, possibly UFO related, including a dramatic sighting over Baja California in February 1990, and several nighttime sightings over Washington State during 1992.

https://nuforc.org/about-us/

His views on the Pheonix lights:

Most of the controversy that arose from the incident centers around a cluster of lights that was seen, and videotaped, to the south of Phoenix at between 9:30 and 10:00 p.m. on the same night as the sightings. In May 1997, the Public Affairs Office at Luke AFB announced that their personnel had investigated these lights, and had established that they were flares launched from A-10 "Warthog" aircraft over the Gila Bend "Barry M. Goldwater" Firing Range at approximately 10:00 p.m.. Even the most implacable UFO skeptics admit, however, that irrespective of whether such flares had in fact been launched or not, they cannot serve as an explanation for the objects that had been witnessed by many individuals some 1-2 hours earlier.

Investigators may never be able to re-assemble all of the facts surrounding the events that took place over Arizona on the night of March 13, 1997. However, there is no doubt in the minds of most that what occurred was extraordinarily bizarre in nature, and that many thousands of witnesses can attest to the events.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case270.htm

So again, it's a data set complied by UFO enthusiasts and served as the data set for Rand:

We used NUFORC data as a starting point to examine the geographic distribution of UAP reports. Reporting of UAP sightings follows a three-step approach: (1) A person witnesses unexplained activity (usually, but not always) in the sky, (2) the witness reports what they observed to NUFORC, and (3) NUFORC reviews the report for obvious hoaxes before entering the sighting into its database.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/trecms/pdf/AD1206696.pdf

Even given that, Rand did find as you noted, people see a lot of UFOs around military training airspace. As would be expected:

Both of these models found inconsistent results in the relationship between the nearest military installations and self-reports of UAP sightings. For example, there was a higher likelihood of UAP reports in areas that were within 60.1 km to 120 km of a Marine Corps installation, as compared with 30.1 km to 60 km, but there was some evidence that reports were less likely in areas within 30 km of these same installations.

What's interesting is that Rand could find that a lot of NUFORC sightings occurred near training areas, something NUFROC could not. In fact when a major portion of a UFO sighting, like the Pheonix lights DID occur in a training area with confirmed training going on, the head of NUFORC is doubtful of this solution.

EDIT: I consistently seem to type NUFORC as NUFROC. Fixed it.
EDIT,EDIT: It seems I confused the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) with high school kids that rase pigs for the local fair, Future Farmers of America, FFA. Fixed it .

As all the member of this site can attest to, anyone can report they saw a UAP/UFO and provide some level of detail. Its the 5W's of the sighting, physical evidence and to whom the report is sent to that defines what actions are being taken to validate the report. I agree there is a population of people that are aware of these reporting organizations and are motivated to report what they saw without trying to validate what they saw as something explainable - for example a satellite flare.

What I have not seen in the DOD UAP conspiracy reports to backup their claims of threats to the Homeland is the official USNORTHCOM/NORAD assessment to the event. If these events were legitimate, there would be an official USNORTHCOM/NORAD report. I have not seen or read that such reports exist. Nor have I seen the 4 star USNORTHCOM/NORAD Commander report to Congress there is a concern from these threats. Every year there is a briefing to Congress on current threats to the Homeland and our ability to detect and defend against those threats.

The closest topic to UAP is Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS), which are known and detected. https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/guillot_statement_31424.pdf

There are likely more than 1,000 incursions by unmanned aircraft systems along the U.S.-Mexico border each month, said the U.S. Northern Command's top general during testimony today at a Senate Armed Services Committee posture hearing. https://www.defense.gov/News/News-S...ned-aircraft-systems-on-southern-border-like/

CONUS airspace is monitored and controlled by the FAA and the 601st AOC.
https://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Library/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/289621/601st-air-operations-center/

If there was a UAP/UFO that was detected by the FAA and or DOD assets in monitored and controlled airspace, there would be an immediate response to cross correlate what that unknown target is between the FAA and the DOD to determine if its hostile. The FAA has controllers with real time access to the FAA common operating picture sitting next to the DOD watch officers looking at BCS-F in the DOD air defense sector and N2C2 command centers. If the target is unknown, the command center director has the authority to initiate Operation Noble Eagle Protocols to determine what that object is. Operation NOBLE EAGLE is the name given to all NORAD aerospace warning, control, and defense missions in North America. Through Operation NOBLE EAGLE, NORAD deters, detects, and defeats potential threats to U.S. and Canadian airspace 24/7/365. https://www.1af.acc.af.mil/News/Tag/62672/operation-noble-eagle/

The FAA also manages the DEN - Domestic Event Network which is used for the FAA and DOD to coordinate response actions to air traffic related events like a hijacking, a noncompliant aircraft passenger, a pilot reports that a UAP is affecting safety of flight operations. https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html/chap9_section_2.html

All these activities and actions taken in response to a UAP would be documented in a report, in the command centers operational activity logs that would be available to Kirkpatricks team to assist in their investigations.