Ross Coulthart Shows Patch Claimed of "Reverse Engineering Program at Area 51"

Other options:
• he had a small run made, maybe 10 or 20, and they're all sitting packaged for posting on his shelf, except for the one he has out to take pictures of for ebay listings.
• There is actually only one that was never sold, and he hoped it would be discovered "naturally" and go viral, hence the $900,000 listing, and the one combined with the Michael Jordan thing (which would make it visible to people looking for Michael Jordan, i.e. create more views hopefully).
Pur speculation, obviously, but I believe it fits the evidence. (Who knew the LIZ applied to Groom Lake patches?)

Or it's legit. It's from a small batch of patches used by or given to EG&G guys that did in fact work at or near Area 51, just not reverse engineering UFOs. Doing more mundane things like working on the network system or radar installations.
 
Or it's legit. It's from a small batch of patches used by or given to EG&G guys that did in fact work at or near Area 51, just not reverse engineering UFOs. Doing more mundane things like working on the network system or radar installations.
The problem here is, if it's legit, why the varying descriptions?
 
@Charlie Wiser. Just for us non-twitter folk who can get lost in the usernames and avatars and sock-puppets and reposts and deleted posts, is this summery below remotely accurate?

There is/was a person on twitter/X with the username BillsMafia716y who headers(?) his post with LETS GO BILLS in reference to the Buffalo Bills. He claimed on Twitter/X that:

  1. That the patch belonged to his great uncle who worked for EG&G at Area 51.
  2. That he provided pictures of the patch and the story about it to Coulthart, he was Coulthart's source.
  3. He knows Lue Elizondo and Hal Puthoff.
A person on Twitter/X with the username The Doc claims that Coulthart spoke to BillsMafia716 and that he is in fact the source. Coulthart "liked" this Tweet, implying it was true and he agreed.

A person on Twitter/X with the username area503, noticing the 3 words on the bottom of the patch tweets BillsMafia716 with a picture of the Measure Analyze Protect working group at Dartmouth, which has nothing to do with Area 51/Groom Lake or UOFs, asking if his great uncle is in the picture. This seems to insinuate that area503 is challenging BillsMafia's story about the patch being related to Area 51.

Possibly because of the challenge from area503, BillsMafia closes his Twitter/X account and goes silent. He on a few occasions reactivated his account to answer a few questions, but then closed it again.

area503 is no fan of Elizondo or the UFO crowd, so he may have retweeted BillsMafia's claim about knowing him, possible to mock him.

We subsequently found that eBay seller Lockheeddskunk117 sold the patch with a slightly different story and is likely BillsMafia.

Maybe?
 
Not to mention the ebay stuff which was a little harder to dig out, but still possible as demonstrated.

it took hundreds, if not thousands of people, quite a while to find the first instagram ebay link that "Suspicious Cow" person posted on Reddit. I didnt know you could image search on instagram and i've been image searching for years.

This is basic journalism/research right? You receive an image of a patch from a source, allegedly this patch is related to alien reverse engineering, it has some words on it, surely you look into the patch and the words, you'd trivially find the Homeland Security sponsored MAP project is the main source of those words in that specific order, you'd reach out to that group to see if was them, then when it isn't and you choose to release the patch data you'd cover this point upfront.

It is. But "we" believe anyone on MB, even people who have never posted here before, if they say something that supports our goals. Guess Coulthart is doing the same. Plus allegedly Lockheed showed him pics of his great uncle, including one with a group of guys coulthart recognized assumedly as guys who worked at area 51?
 
The problem here is, if it's legit, why the varying descriptions?
Because his marketing skills suck?
Article:
$900000.00
Do you want to own the ultimate Area 51 item? Then look no further!
This patch was given to the members of a small EG&G engineering group inside Area 51 in the year 2000. I was part of that group. 100% original and authentic. I have never seen this patch offered anywhere else before. Excellent condition. Been stored inside a plastic sleeve.
MAKE YOUR BEST OFFER! Keep in mind that I will not let this go for nothing. This isn't some reproduction.


Heck how long did it take until he listened to someone "you gotta take it out of the sleeve, you'll get a nicer photo"?
 
We subsequently found that eBay seller Lockheeddskunk117 sold the patch with a slightly different story and is likely BillsMafia.
Confirmed here:
This Twitter user is the one who initially reached out to me. I then communicated with him through his ebay account lockheedskunk117.
Lockheedskunk listed the patch several times on ebay, with different photographs (and slightly different descriptions) of the same patch (same stitching!).

This was confirmed via ebay, search engine caches, and the soviet memorabilia site which mirrored the listings.
 
But "we" believe anyone on MB, even people who have never posted here before, if they say something that supports our goals. Guess Coulthart is doing the same.
Metabunk is behind the scenes look at investigative analysis, you are seeing the mistakes and the work and dead avenues in real time.

When people come here with pure statements I would not say they get uncritically believed like you suggest whether they support or not.
 
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When people come here with pure statements I would say they get uncritically believed like you suggest whether they support or not.
Not uncritically.
If something's not plausible, it gets questions.
If it should have sources and doesn't, I dig deeper.

But:
• we're not journalists
• there's no fame or fortune for those who post here (not even karma)


;)
 

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Sounds like he, "lockheedskunk117", sold it because he needed cash. What I don't get, is why "leak" it to Coulthart after you already sold it? Especially if you needed money. He was never going to get close to million dollars for it, but it would have made sense to hype it up first behind the scenes, then sell it with peek interest in it, right?

He could have faked the sale to remove the story from his conflict of interest regarding the value of the patch. He can then put it up for sale at a higher price from the fake account.
 
If something's not plausible, it gets questions.

plausible is in the eye of the beholder.

(obviously if you 'know' a person for a number of years you start to get an idea what areas you can trust their expertise or whether or not you can blindly trust what they tell you. For ex. i know i can trust Mick when he says he contacted the MAP guy and he said he never saw the patch before. But if I say 'some guys on twitter contacted the map guy and blah blah blah'.. twitter hearsay? not so much)
 
so.. im looking at estate sales of "lots" of patches from EGG (and they all have documentation with them)

I do think the quality (ie heft) matches egg patches
I do see that shape used by EGG employee patches (though they seem to favor that style in the 80s)

One thing i did notice, is none of the fonts match. I'm wondering if @Ann K is on to something with a home sewing machine. What would we call that font style on the coulthart patch?
 
For what it's worth, I am working a lead the patch in question was legitimately issued to EG&G personnel who ran a radar cross section test facility at A51. When I get information I feel comfortable posting, I will do so.
Ok, I now feel comfortable posting this. The link below is to a thread about the subject patch I stated on the forum (of which I am the moderator) of the "Dreamland Resort" site. For those unfamiliar with the site, it's a website devoted to A51 and black aircraft programs. Many of the posters are former A51 employees (Roadrunners Internationale) and/or members (me included) of "Pioneers of Steath." The site is owned by Joerg Arnu, a true gentleman I am proud to call my friend. Joerg has devoted much of his life to the study of black programs. Joerg lives in Rachel, NV near A51.

One of the most prominent members of the DLR staff is Peter Merlin. Peter is a highly respected aviation historian known for his extensive knowledge of/books and articles about A51 and classified aircraft programs.

Peter W. Merlin has authored numerous books and articles on aerospace history and technology, as well as volumes on Area 51 and the Nevada Test Site for Arcadia Publishing. He has appeared in documentary programs for the History Channel, Discovery, National Geographic, and others.
Content from External Source
https://books.google.com/books/abou...?id=rJ8OEAAAQBAJ&source=kp_author_description

In the DLR link below, please see Peter's (and others') responses to my initial request for info on the patch. If Peter says this is the background on the patch, I take that to the bank. There are obviously others who responded, but I know and trust Peter. I personally consider this closed, at least with respect to Coulthart's claims of it representing a UFO crash retrieval/reverse engineering program.

Peter Merlin Post 1
I have known about this patch for several years after first encountering it as an "EG&G radar patch from the test site" (i.e., Groom Lake). Of course EG&G has since become URS and now AECOM, but I digress. The main point is that it's from the EW/RCS range at Groom.

Yes, the silver ball on the emblem represents one of the aluminum calibration spheres. The 11001001 has been driving me crazy though. There are so many possible conversions and it was even the title of a Star Trek: The Next Generation episode. I do think the black rhombus with the white question mark is the very best explanation so far. It fits well with other test site iconography.
Content from External Source
Peter Merlin Post 2
It's wise never to jump to conclusions when analyzing organizational patches and similar items. A lot of completely unrelated insignia share the same design elements (lightning bolts, stars of certain colors, generic aerodynamic shapes, etc.), names such as (Mad Hatters or Dark Knights), and mottoes (Latin or otherwise). A lot of people jump right on something that is labeled "Det. 3" without checking to verify the parent organization as AFFTC (now AFTC). A grouping of six stars doesn't always denote "Area 51." Sometimes the symbolism is obvious to the point of unbelievability and other times it may be entirely cryptic.
Content from External Source
https://www.dreamlandresort.com/forum/messages/58856.html

I want to thank Joerg for his help and permission to "cross pollinate" the two sites. Mentioning UFOs/UAPs on DLR is highly frowned up, but after an hour or so on the phone last night, we worked it out. He could not have been more accommodating. My thanks as well to all the DLR members who took the time to offer up their thoughts, and especially to Peter Merlin.

Edit--Thanks also to @NorCal Dave for his patience and advice as I struggled with how best to provide this information from a somewhat different source for MB.
 
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The main point is that it's from the EW/RCS range at Groom.
What is an EW/RCS range, and why does it use calibration spheres?
Electronic Warfare/Radar Cross Section, and the sphere provides a known reflection?
 
What is an EW/RCS range, and why does it use calibration spheres?
Electronic Warfare/Radar Cross Section, and the sphere provides a known reflection?
Yes to both, but I think the radar guys prefer the term "return" v. "reflection."
 
@Charlie Wiser. Just for us non-twitter folk who can get lost in the usernames and avatars and sock-puppets and reposts and deleted posts, is this summery below remotely accurate?

There is/was a person on twitter/X with the username BillsMafia716y who headers(?) his post with LETS GO BILLS in reference to the Buffalo Bills. He claimed on Twitter/X that:

  1. That the patch belonged to his great uncle who worked for EG&G at Area 51.
  2. That he provided pictures of the patch and the story about it to Coulthart, he was Coulthart's source.

He provided one picture to Coulthart, and tweeted he took it while his great uncle was asleep. (Coulthart said he also provided a photo of the super secret reverse engineering team.)

A person on Twitter/X with the username The Doc claims that Coulthart spoke to BillsMafia716 and that he is in fact the source. Coulthart "liked" this Tweet, implying it was true and he agreed.

No, according to The Doc, he asked Coulthart if BillsMafia716 was his source, and then reported that Coulthart had said yes. Coulthart liked that tweet.

area503 is no fan of Elizondo or the UFO crowd, so he may have retweeted BillsMafia's claim about knowing him, possible to mock him.

I never saw him retweet the guy. There's a screenshot floating around where BillsMafia says he knows Elizondo. (I had asked someone if they screenshotted BillsMafia's responses in my thread because he deleted his account before I saw them. I think that's how I ended up seeing that screenshot.)
 
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Peter Merlin Post 1
I have known about this patch for several years after first encountering it as an "EG&G radar patch from the test site" (i.e., Groom Lake). Of course EG&G has since become URS and now AECOM, but I digress. The main point is that it's from the EW/RCS range at Groom.
Content from External Source

Does "EG&G radar patch from the test site" (i.e., Groom Lake) have anything to do with reverse engineering (even if not alien tech)?
 
Does "EG&G radar patch from the test site" (i.e., Groom Lake) have anything to do with reverse engineering (even if not alien tech)?
Reverse engineering would not typically be an effort a dedicated test team would undertake. I suppose in this case it would be possible such a group might be called upon to test the RCS of some adversary systems, but that data would be transferred to the design guys.
 
Also, any chance you can ask this user what era the patch dates to? (Assuming they're telling the truth about owning one.)
https://www.dreamlandresort.com/forum/messages/58862.html
No, I'd rather not. I don't want to play delivery guy back and forth between the two forums. This was meant to just get an answer to the question of whose patch we were looking at thanks to Coulthart. You are certainly welcome to join DLR and ask the question yourself. Nice people over there, and some very knowledgeable ones.
 
area503 is no fan of Elizondo or the UFO crowd, so he may have retweeted BillsMafia's claim about knowing him, possible to mock him.
i went back and looked. that was my mistake because the tweets on MB dont link to full convos and when you try to find the original convo i end up in other places :) sorry.

It was actually charlie who posted the Lue screenshot on twitter, although charlie never said who he got it from. Charlie was asking area503 if he took screenshots and area503 (now that ive reread that thread section) said 'no'.
 
i went back and looked. that was my mistake because the tweets on MB dont link to full convos and when you try to find the original convo i end up in other places :) sorry.

It was actually charlie who posted the Lue screenshot on twitter, although charlie never said who he got it from. Charlie was asking area503 if he took screenshots and area503 (now that ive reread that thread section) said 'no'.
I got the screenshot from elsewhere on Twitter.

When I click on a linked tweet from MB, I can just scroll up and see the rest of the conversation so I'm not sure why others can't. Maybe you have to be logged in.
 
so...the "egg photo" he allegedly told his great nephew he saw on the wall of the data storage room could have been a pic of one of these? no way. and its right on the patch!!?

I wonder if a photo was staged, as a joke, by photographing one of these spheres to look bigger ("two SUVs"). Sticking it on the wall - even in a secure room - just seems a bit blatant. Where I worked, nobody left anything classified lying around, ever. Not even lower level stuff. Reminds me of the Calvine photo Nick Pope saw on the wall at his workplace.
 
("two SUVs")
i thought it was "a small suv". (but dont want to look for the video again)

maybe the engineer just told him the size. and the photo was ambiguous.

I can totally see people at area 51 messing with the newbies telling them all about the flying saucers they are working on. One would htink area 51 has written regulations on NOT doing that, but who knows.
 
i thought it was "a small suv". (but dont want to look for the video again)

maybe the engineer just told him the size. and the photo was ambiguous.

I can totally see people at area 51 messing with the newbies telling them all about the flying saucers they are working on. One would htink area 51 has written regulations on NOT doing that, but who knows.

The size of an SUV:
"The great uncle stated it was absolute proof of a non-human craft but the public would probably never get to see that photograph. He said quote, the object was egg-shaped, about the size of an SUV, silverish gray in color, smooth seamless, no control surfaces or propulsion visible, no writing, no symbols of any kind. A few men could pick it up yet it could not be cut open and x-rays couldn't penetrate it. The best engineers at EG&G tried to figure out how to activate it and what its power source was to no avail. They finally came to the conclusion it was a probe craft sent here from another planet." - Coulthart
Source.

I'm sure I heard 2 SUVs in the last day or so - must've been another sighting.
 
that didnt take long :)
Screenshot 2023-08-15 154821.png

Seriously?! Strike while the iron's hot, I guess. I'm torn between needing to get one and totally ignoring it.

i went back and looked. that was my mistake because the tweets on MB dont link to full convos and when you try to find the original convo i end up in other places :) sorry.
Yeah, I have a hell of a time trying to follow Twitter/X and reddit threads, what with the screen names, the headers and the retweeting and reposting. But we got the gist and Charlie clarified the rest.

The main thing is BillsMafia and lockheedskunk sure seem to be the same people and the source for the patch and Coulthart. The various stories about the patch seem to be just that, assorted stories. Although, if Duke's info is correct, it's possible there is some truth underlying the story. Maybe he did get it from an uncle that worked at Area 51 for EG&G. :confused:

Edit--Thanks also to @NorCal Dave for his patience and advice as I struggled with how best to provide this information from a somewhat different source for MB.

I was just along for the ride and having fun. Thanks for including me.
 
Maybe he did get it from an uncle that worked at Area 51 for EG&G. :confused:
i read thousands of civilians were working there in that time frame (EG&G had 6 airplanes at the nearby airport for employees). so it's not that shocking. and the patch is cool..wonder if the mounds are a reference to that IBM xenon thing. Only thinking IBM might have been on the team too since the egg photo was in a data storage room.

anyway its a cool looking patch. but its a 4th hand story. alleged engineer>alleged great uncle>alleged nephew>coulthart who tells us the story. At least Arts Parts was only 2nd hand.
 
that didnt take long :)
Screenshot 2023-08-15 154821.png
I wonder who owns the legal rights to that patch? If it was developed and produced with their own money by EG&G, you'd think their current iteration (AECOM) might have a claim on the design. Doubt they'd try to exercise any legal claim, however, even if they could. So in the meantime, looks like it's open season on the patch design.

I'm considering ordering a hoodie, by the way. I think it would be a hoot to wonder around the USAF Museum wearing that bad boy.
 
I wonder who owns the legal rights to that patch? If it was developed and produced with their own money by EG&G, you'd think their current iteration (AECOM) might have a claim on the design. Doubt they'd try to exercise any legal claim, however, even if they could. So in the meantime, looks like it's open season on the patch design.

I'm considering ordering a hoodie, by the way. I think it would be a hoot to wonder around the USAF Museum wearing that bad boy.

They've replaced the silver orb with a repeat of the star. NOT GENUINE MERCHANDISE!!
 
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