Ross Coulthart Shows Patch Claimed of "Reverse Engineering Program at Area 51"

[Mendel]

It would appear that the members of the highly classified reverse engineering program were sharing highly classified information with a guy form the radar division. This seems like a violation of their security clearance.

Yes. And thus, it makes me doubt that it happened.
Why would people whose livelihood depends on retaining their clearance violate the law lightly?
The hypothetical "prank" version fits the known facts and does not involve laws being broken.

 

[deirdre]

Regarding the CIA connection, I've found a 6th version of the ebay ad

that link shows the same item number as this comment mentions here
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ro...ineering-program-at-area-51.13109/post-298039

 

[Charlie Wiser]

I took @FatPhil to mean that the pictured procedure is liable to collect the operator's DNA, either from their handling the ball in less than sterile conditions, or when the screwdriver slips and ends up in their other hand.

Nolan's magic machine is for metallurgic analysis though, so any DNA collected would not be apparent in the results.

Of course, there's the problem of the analysis analyzing screwdriver metal along with alien scout ship metal.

 

[Charlie Wiser]

that link shows the same item number as this comment mentions here
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ro...ineering-program-at-area-51.13109/post-298039

I presume he amended the listing at some point, so the same item ID has two different descriptions archived. It certainly seems he tried a few different ways to get interest in the patch - including stretching the truth in some instances.

 

[NorCal Dave]

In the case of Jim's ball, which is what Coulthart is scraping here, it was to get metal scrapings to send to immunologist(!!?) Garry Nolan.

Nolan's magic machine is for metallurgic analysis though, so any DNA collected would not be apparent in the results.

As I'm sure your aware, but for others this has been Nolan's gig for a while. Despite being a geneticist and immunologist at Stanford Medical School, he's gotten into meta-materials (as in the UFOLogical definition meaning materials possibly or likely from UFOs). He's spent some time with a few tiny pieces of Magnesium purportedly collected from a crashed UFO in Ubatuba Brazil in 1957 concluding:

So of the 10 or 12 that I've looked at, two seem to be not playing by our rules. That doesn't mean that they're levitating, on my desk or anything, it just means that they have altered isotope ratios.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7n...nalyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes

Other than an anonymous letter about the supposed crashed UFO sent with the samples to a newspaper gossip columnist, there has never been any record of the event. Though it's possible the Magnesium came from a crashed DC3. Link below.

In the context of this thread, it's the "altered isotope ratios" that is relevant. This is a thing in UFOlogy and Taber includes this detail in his retelling of GrUncle Sam's story (bold by me):

'They said that they were able to take some very small samples of the material. And I'm not an expert in chemistry, but I guess from the isotope ratio or the mixture of elements, they concluded it was not made on Earth.'

Back when Lazar was claiming to be reverse engineering UFOs at Area 51 in the late '80s, he said a stable version of element 115 was used to power the craft. At that time element 115 was predicted, but unknown so Lazar could assign whatever qualities he wanted to it. And I've suggested it just sounded sexy, it was 2-3 elements out on the periodic table from what was known at the time.

What Lazar failed to notice was that the predictions about 115 (Moscovium) came true when it was successfully synthesized in an accelerator and was shown to be highly unstable:

Moscovium is an extremely radioactive element: its most stable known isotope, moscovium-290, has a half-life of only 0.65 seconds.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscovium

Not good for UFO propulsion systems. In later years, it seems there has been a move away from ever exotic materials on the far end of the periodic table in favor of "altered" or "otherworldly" isotopes of more common materials like magnesium in regard to UFO parts. Something
Taber includes.

The history of the Ubatuba UFO parts and Nolan's testing of them are discussed here, about 3/4 into an overly long OP:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/meta-materials-from-ufos.12995/

 

[Ann K]

As I'm sure your aware, but for others this has been Nolan's gig for a while. Despite being a geneticist and immunologist at Stanford Medical School, he's gotten into meta-materials (as in the UFOLogical definition meaning materials possibly or likely from UFOs). He's spent some time with a few tiny pieces of Magnesium purportedly collected from a crashed UFO in Ubatuba Brazil in 1957 concluding:

So of the 10 or 12 that I've looked at, two seem to be not playing by our rules. That doesn't mean that they're levitating, on my desk or anything, it just means that they have altered isotope ratios.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7n...nalyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes

Other than an anonymous letter about the supposed crashed UFO sent with the samples to a newspaper gossip columnist, there has never been any record of the event. Though it's possible the Magnesium came from a crashed DC3. Link below.

In the context of this thread, it's the "altered isotope ratios" that is relevant. This is a thing in UFOlogy and Taber includes this detail in his retelling of GrUncle Sam's story (bold by me):

'They said that they were able to take some very small samples of the material. And I'm not an expert in chemistry, but I guess from the isotope ratio or the mixture of elements, they concluded it was not made on Earth.'

Back when Lazar was claiming to be reverse engineering UFOs at Area 51 in the late '80s, he said a stable version of element 115 was used to power the craft. At that time element 115 was predicted, but unknown so Lazar could assign whatever qualities he wanted to it. And I've suggested it just sounded sexy, it was 2-3 elements out on the periodic table from what was known at the time.

What Lazar failed to notice was that the predictions about 115 (Moscovium) came true when it was successfully synthesized in an accelerator and was shown to be highly unstable:

Moscovium is an extremely radioactive element: its most stable known isotope, moscovium-290, has a half-life of only 0.65 seconds.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscovium

Not good for UFO propulsion systems. In later years, it seems there has been a move away from ever exotic materials on the far end of the periodic table in favor of "altered" or "otherworldly" isotopes of more common materials like magnesium in regard to UFO parts. Something
Taber includes.

The history of the Ubatuba UFO parts and Nolan's testing of them are discussed here, about 3/4 into an overly long OP:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/meta-materials-from-ufos.12995/

As pointed out in that thread, there was also a meteorite strike in the area. None of the material has been definitively identified as being from the plane crash, the meteorite, or the putative "UFO".

 

[FatPhil]

In the context of this thread, it's the "altered isotope ratios" that is relevant. This is a thing in UFOlogy and Taber includes this detail in his retelling of GrUncle Sam's story (bold by me):

'They said that they were able to take some very small samples of the material. And I'm not an expert in chemistry, but I guess from the isotope ratio or the mixture of elements, they concluded it was not made on Earth.'

I'm perturbed that someone calling himself a scientist would use the description "altered isotope ratios". There's absolutely no reason why isotope ratios couldn't be significantly different from how they are on earth through perfectly natural causes. Non-earthly natural causes, but still natural causes. Jumping immediately to a conclusion that isotope ratios had been somehow altered - from what - how does he know what the ratios were before alteration?!?!!? - is absurd. That to me is a real tell.

 

[NorCal Dave]

I'm perturbed that someone calling himself a scientist would use the description "altered isotope ratios"

In post #68 of the thread on meta-materials I admit to speculating that Nolan may have gotten a sliver of Mg that had been tested by the Condon committee in the '60s. Those samples had undergone Neutron Activation Analysis. I'm no chemist, but it seems the samples were put into a nuclear reactor to bombard them with neutrons to "alter their isotope ratios" to evaluate their makeup. I never got an answer to the question: "Once bombarded for testing, does the sample retain its altered isotope ratio?" If so, is it possible Nolan is correct, but not because the material is from a UFO, but because it had been altered as part of the previous testing?

All way beyond my pay grade.

 

[Mendel]

In post #68 of the thread on meta-materials I admit to speculating that Nolan may have gotten a sliver of Mg that had been tested by the Condon committee in the '60s.

Provenance matters (and so does provenience). UFOlogy is scandalously bad with it, across the board.

Ross Coulthart had the same provenance problem with this patch. Quoting excerpts from @Charlie Wiser's transcripts:

Article:

Need To Know podcast with Bryce Zabel, Aug 4, 2023
He [Eric Taber] also took a smartphone image of his great uncle's EG&G Engineering Group and their insignia patch

Close Encounters talk at Victoria State Library, Aug 12, 2023
And the reason why I'm sure that he's telling me the truth is because he also snapped a picture of a group of people. And without going into the details about that picture, it has more than convinced me as to his bona fides.

Source: https://threedollarkit.weebly.com/blog/coultharts-egg-shaped-ufo-from-outer-space

On relistening to Coulthart's podcast, it looks like Taber sent him that AARO interview memo that the Daily Mail published, and Coulthart was reading from it.

So, what about the break trailer photo convinced Ross Coulthart that this story is legitimate?

Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...gg-shaped-UFO-1980s-whistleblower-claims.html , converted from .avif

The obituary for Samuel Urquhart makes no mention of his EG&G employment, but does say he lived in Las Vegas, like many Area 51 employees.

Article:

Samuel Urquhart

November 9, 1946 — August 11, 2022

Sam would retire from his military service in Seattle, WA, and eventually move to Las Vegas in 1993, where he remained until his passing.

Source: https://www.davismemorialpark.com/obituaries/samuel-urquhart

 

[deirdre]

So, what about the break trailer photo convinced Ross Coulthart that this story is legitimate?

coulthart said he recognized some other guys in the photo.

He talked about it at the library on Saturday and on Need To Know (Aug 4, timestamped) (and has tweeted once to deny he bought the patch himself and deride armchair debunkers). He said the guy whose uncle worked on the program gave him the photo along with a photo of the engineering group itself (and he recognized some faces) - this is why it seemed legit to him.

 

[deirdre]

The obituary for Samuel Urquhart makes no mention of his EG&G employment, but does say he lived in Las Vegas, like many Area 51 employees.

a sam urquhart did reply on another man's obituary that he worked with the guy from "2000-" for ten years. that guys obituary specifically said he worked for EG&G (for like 40? years) and he retired JT3. This of course doesn't prove Uruhart worked specifically for EG&G of course..