c'mon Habib Azadehdel aka Henry Victorian is a character made up by that guy everyone thinks made "Alien Autopsy" and Robert Irving . The UFO community doesnt even think he's real or they'd all be talking about him.
I preemptively addressed this rebuttal in my original post. It's a strong claim that the list of folks hoodwinked by the Navy videos is so large. Furthermore, the quotes I presented - as I read them - all have a tone not of "what I've seen is unusual" but instead of "there is evidence of something unexplainable". A specific concrete example is Ratcliffe's reference to "satellite imagery" which seems clearly to not refer to "debunked UFOs from the past".
because the people who read Metabunk have seen the debunk bits and the explanations (and demonstrations) of parallax and camera flare etc. Are the people you quoted reading Metabunk? If not then how would they know the explanation.
I was skeptical of these videos even before I discovered MB. Had I been shown Go-Fast and Gimbal while in a public position, I would absolutely not make such credulous statements as those quoted about what I had seen.
I'm sorry, but it's hard for me not to read this as being in bad faith. The Obama quote I included in my post starts with the words "What is true, and I'm actually being serious here". Are you honestly arguing that the fact it was said on a comedy show somehow invalidates it?
what makes you think he's not talking about Chinese or Russian craft, is the point. Then he goes on to joke about the band leader being an alien because it was a comedy show. But you left out the part where he was making fun of aliens, and included him in a list as if he was thinking the ufos were aliens.
These are no 'ordinary' classified programs. You're comparing apples and oranges here and generalizing your own experience.
But what makes this difficult is that no one knows who has seen what, so there's no way to know, for instance, if the things Obama was referring to have been analyzed by AARO and found to not be anomalous, or if he's referring to some piece of evidence no one else has seen. Pretty frustrating.
"I should also state clearly for the record that in our research AARO has found no credible evidence thus far of extraterrestrial activity, off-world technology, or objects that defy the known laws of physics," said Kirkpatrick.
"In the event sufficient scientific data were ever obtained that a UAP encountered can only be explained by extraterrestrial origin, we are committed to working with our interagency partners at NASA to appropriately inform the U.S. Government's leadership of its findings," he added.
I think you're confusing two persons here. Your link refers to 'Armen Victorian', a shop assistant, and you to 'Habib Azadehkal'.
They aren't real. they are made up fanfiction type stuff.
Simple answer, no. When you are read into classified programs, regardless of the level or subject matter, you agree not to reveal what you've learned until such time as the information is declassified. You give your word. Honor and integrity are not weird, or at least they didn't use to be.
They're all the same person. Read the whole story by Irving.
Article: In contrast, Habib Azadehdel arrives wearing a pale reflective raincoat which lights up like a strobe as he makes his dash for the door.
...
Ostensibly, because, as careers go, the route from international diplomat to insurance salesman to notorious smuggler to renowned flying saucer investigator seems as implausible as it was precarious. 'Henry' was the first of several noms de guerre. 'Julian Philips', for instance - doubtless inspired by the arrival of his first son, Julleane Philippe - or 'Mr Scanlon', 'Dr Allan Jones', and 'Cassava N'tumba'. When Henry finally settled for the playful 'Dr Armen Victorian', few of his compatriots seemed to notice
That was a colourful person. But I don't see a reason why he wouldn't have had a telephone conversation with Dr Walker. From your source:
The other phone interview was not even by him.Azadehdel's approach, like the Aviary's, was multifaceted. He explained to those listening that the techniques he used were those "usually deployed" by the intelligence services. Using a host of assumed identities, Henry plagued the Armed and Intelligence Services, and assorted scientists with telephone calls, his tape recorder running and well stocked, and flooded the US government with requests for sensitive records under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA).
Physical age is not mental or emotional age, and although I'm reluctant to accuse anyone else of dementia (now where did I leave that ...uh, what was I looking for just now?) we would be remiss not to consider his age as a factor.
If this is indeed what happened, it's incredibly depressing/terrifying that the Navy videos combined with Elizondo's explanations would make it all the way to the president's intelligence briefing without any skeptic stepping in to say, "hold on now". Unfortunately I do find such a thing plausible.
its alot to link. that was their whole thing..John Lundberg and Irving...hoaxing stuff.
Article: Crain alleges that Walker attended these meetings during his stint as Executive Secretary of Research and Development for the federal government in the 1950s.
Walker, who still lives in Centre County, denied any knowledge or involvement in government UFO investigations.
Dont forget these are politicians. and/or movie makers (ie. Obama) Turning off 50-60% of your target audience isnt really in anyone's best interest. just saying.
OK, I'm with you so far...
I'd disagree, in a gentle and friendly way. They RARELY make mistakes, or misjudge situations, at least in situations where that would have major ramifications. If they consistently made such errors, the number of airline crashes would be very much larger. But as you say, look at the number -- it's very small. However, there are a LOT of them, judging uncountable many situations every day -- some very small percentage of the time they make mistakes, which means we get the occasional plane crash and the occasional UFO report. With the large number of pilots (estimated between 1.5 and 2.3 million in the world -- https://www.statista.com/statistics/740147/active-pilots-airline-industry/) interpreting multiple objects and phenomena pretty much every time they fly, being wrong, or uncertain, pretty rarely would adequately account for the number of UFO reports we're aware of.
That is to your credit!
There is no question I am experiencing a bit of this, but still - it isn't just Obama that hasn't come out having changed his mind, it's all the people I quoted, and many more.
This coming from a man who is on the Senate intelligence committee.Following the U.S. forces shooting down three unknown objects that entered U.S. and Canadian airspace over the weekend, Senator Heinrich called for more public transparency, “Americans don’t want speculation on UAPs, they want answers. That’s why I came together with a bipartisan group of senators to ramp up the Department of Defense and Intelligence Community’s ability to provide Americans with the transparency they deserve. The latest unclassified report on UAPs lists over 360 new detections. However, nearly half of the detections remain uncharacterized and unattributed. Whether it’s a blip on the radar or, yes, a balloon in our skies, the Defense and Intelligence communities need to deliver, in a timely fashion, solid analysis and public-facing reports about any health or national security implications that may be presented.”
You seem to think Henry Azadehdel (a.k.a. Armen Victorian) is a fictual character, but he did exist in reality. Irving's movie was based on him.
http://tcoto.klaxo.net/rel/AZADEHDL.HTM
In this issue, we present Robert Irving's profile of the complex world
of Henry Azadehdel, better known to researchers in the fields of
ufology, mind control and crop circle research as 'Dr. Armen
Victorian'. This is not an attempt to villify or 'expose' him, for
most of the facts are in the public domain and, as Irving himself
declares, the man is both likable and deserving of respect for teasing
out volumes of ex-secrets via the US's Freedom of Information Act.
So we may be using "rare" in different contexts... something that is rare for individuals may also be common if there are enough individuals.
But of course there are many, many pilots who don't do that. The existence of (comparatively rare) mistakes like this does not mean pilots are error prone, it means there a a LOT of pilots, some of which make mistakes.
Fair enough. Could we possibly agree that trained observers are probably better than untrained ones, but are still going to make mistakes, and if you have enough of them observing enough stuff you'll get UFO reports without the need for anything mysterious/unknown to actually be flying by?
I took that as meaning operating groups are compartmentalized and do not know what each other are doing. For example, during the 2004 Nimitz encounter, Cmdr. Fravor's group appears to have been unaware that the USS Louisville submarine was conducting weapons tests in the same area as they were vectored to, or that NASA was testing the X-43A hypersonic drone in the same area, as discussed in the below article.
The three Navy videos were considered hard evidence; they're not.
No, this isn't about aggrandizement at all. But this community and @Mick West in particular has more experience debunking than most people on the planet–and some exceptions are often quoted here.
These phone interview transcripts would not be admissible in court. Their value as evidence isn't much. We can't even tell if the person on the phone is being serious or not; how the transcript was edited; if it is accurate; and what the things being said are even intended to mean.
Dunno -- is it a(nother) credulous recounting of the story? Or possibly a look at how the story impacted their lives (Betty, for one, became a bit of a UFO celebrity and dived pretty firmly into the deep end of UFO credulity and celebrity.) In many ways the Hills' story launched all of the confusion and grief of the recovered memory fad. There's a lot to potentially explore there beyond believing the story they came up with under hypnosis.
you could just watch the movie, its only like 30 minutes. he's/they're basically an old version of "Q" saga. its 2-3 guys playing games, and they all admit in several articles they are playing games. Not really worth a thread as the UFO community has no interest.
http://www.mythologist.co.uk/cast.html
Rob Irving
Rob is a writer, veteran crop circle maker and photographer with an interest in artifice, belief and self deception. He's written on the subject of hoaxing and deception on both sides of the fence: the hoaxers and the hoaxed, and the malleable line between the two positions.
http://www.mythologist.co.uk/crew.html
John Lundberg
John is an artist who has been covertly creating crop circles in the fields of England for over a decade. His introduction to documentary was as a contributor to TV programmes that featured his artworks. You can read about his crop circle making exploits in Iain Aitch's book A Fete Worse than Death.
John's documentary subjects are drawn from the edges of contemporary culture. Underpinning all of his work is a deep interest in how myth and artifice can shape and alter reality.
It's got to be better than Ben Hansen's "ShockDoc" for discovery+.“After an interracial couple in the 1960s has a horrifying encounter with a UFO, they set out to discover if it actually happened, or if it is just a case of folie à deux–madness for two.“
Credulous, can't be bothered... I'm not sure why people that should know better are often mistaken. This conversation brought a "mystery" from back in 2010 to mind.
There were a lot of news stories and breathless ZOMG Who is firing rockets off our coast reports with "experts" saying they know what a rocket launch looks like and That is a rocket. FAA just said "We didn't see anything like that on our radar" and "No, there were no permitted launches in that area". Of course the Pentagon and FAA were being truthful. They saw nothing unusual. But they also left a hole that people filled in by not specifying that it was US Airways 808... The whole time it was just a sun lit passenger jet contrail but that didn't stop amateurs and experts from speculating about what they were seeing as something fantastic rather than doing the work to see if a flight matched the time and heading of the "object".
The fact that Obama said something during jokes on a comedy show - how on earth can that NOT be relevant?
