Pete Tar
Senior Member.
Why not post what you're referring to?
[Solved] MH-17 was 9M-MRD, so Why are there photos of 9M-MRC? ['D' partially obscured]
- Thread starter Ezswo
- Start date
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
No need to dare us - add your comments to the threads already in discussion, keeping on topic to the specific point of the thread.
https://www.metabunk.org/forums/flight-mh370.45/
Pierre
New Member
Ok lets start again......I know that RC is still flying that has nothing to do with the photograph that was shown by the media on the day in question......the aircraft is RC......when it was taken is another issue..........if I read you all correctly you are now showing the original photograph showing that it was indeed RD and not RC is that correct?
Prove it, as every single bit of evidence I've seen indicates it is RD.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Yes, this is a correct assessment.
The photo taken by that (ill-fated, as it turned out) passenger WAS of 9M-MRD at the gate in Amsterdam. I honestly cannot understand how this particular "conspiracy theory" ever got started in the first place, it's so obviously false.
Pierre
New Member
I again ask the question are there two photographs in circulation one by the passenger and one by the press and if so were they both taken on the same day at the same time from the same location ie G3.....lets get some basic questions asked before I go into more detail........then if there are two I would like you to confirm that both are the same aircraft taken at the same time ok? If there is only one photograph taken by the passenger you are again confirming it is RD and not RC correct?
Please read the first post here.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/so...e-photos-of-9m-mrc-d-partially-obscured.4006/
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
I think this is where the confusion lies.
Simply, there is ONE photo (by a passenger). It began to make "the rounds" on social media, and then the "press" (in this case Reuter's) picked it up and reported about it.
Some reference shots of Gate G3, as other people have brought up the idea that the Cor Pan photo is not there.
Via:
https://foursquare.com/v/gate-g3/4b6d2c16f964a520f8692ce3
Via:
https://foursquare.com/v/gate-g3/4b6d2c16f964a520f8692ce3
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There are two. Please read the OP.
WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Oops. I erred on that.
So....again (for "Pierre") what we have is a photo that is rather low resolution (taken by the passenger) and another, similar angle (better quality), taken by press.
In any case, it is important (here) to realize and understand that the Nose Gear Doors (where the "MD" was painted) are curved. They are not completely flat surfaces.
This leads to the glare, at the middle portion of the curved arc in the letter "D". It's also important to note that a capital "D" letter has two distinct sharp corners, whereas the capital letter "C" does not.
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The only question that I don't think has been addressed is the provenance of the Reuters photo. Who is Yaron Mofaz, and why did he take that picture? He wasn't a passenger. Obviously the very Israeli name is feeding some conspiracy theories.
A man by that name has a Facebook page stating that he worked for Israir, a Tel Aviv-based airline. I also found a few posts under his name on photography forums. So, an amateur aviation photographer or something else? And why was he in Amsterdam back in July?
I'm not suggesting anything fishy here, of course, just posing some "devil's advocate" questions.
A man by that name has a Facebook page stating that he worked for Israir, a Tel Aviv-based airline. I also found a few posts under his name on photography forums. So, an amateur aviation photographer or something else? And why was he in Amsterdam back in July?
I'm not suggesting anything fishy here, of course, just posing some "devil's advocate" questions.
Pierre
New Member
There is no point in giving reference to previous posts but rather to answer the questions asked.......one person on this blog is saying there is only one photograph (Weed Whacker)which is the one taken by the Pax prior to boarding that appears to show it was RC........then we have one the media obtained that portrays it as being RD.
Can you both simply clarify...... are we talking about only one original photograph taken by Con prior to boarding that shows RC (that you later say is RD by your own analysis)? or are you using the second media photograph to prove your point that is was RD?
Can you both simply clarify...... are we talking about only one original photograph taken by Con prior to boarding that shows RC (that you later say is RD by your own analysis)? or are you using the second media photograph to prove your point that is was RD?
WeedWhacker acknowledged his mistake. There are two pictures. Both show the same plane.
This is the photo taken by the Dutch passenger:
You can quite clearly see that the registration is not RC, but RD, with part of the D obscured. Look at the vertical upright and the sharp corners, compared to the rounded letter C in the photo I posted above.
This is the photo taken by the Dutch passenger:
You can quite clearly see that the registration is not RC, but RD, with part of the D obscured. Look at the vertical upright and the sharp corners, compared to the rounded letter C in the photo I posted above.
Ray Von Geezer
Senior Member.
The most obvious answer for my money is that the photo was taken by a "plane spotter" and bought by Routers. When I put forward this argument at another forum I was surprised that a lot of people (mainly in the USA) apparently hadn't heard of plane spotting. Here in the UK it's well known, so much so that "plane spotter" is often used interchangeably with "train spotter" as a derogatory term for someone who is a bit geeky.
Schiphol is apparently considered one of the best airports in the world for plane spotting, and has the Panorama Terrace that runs over the roof of the terminal building and gives excellent views of the gates, aprons and some runways.
This is just one of many YouTube videos showing the views from the terrace:-
Additionally, a lot of Schiphol plane spotter pictures can be found via Google. Including this one in a Flickr user's collection:-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/calflier001/6944035374/in/photostream/
That's actually 9M-MRC at Schiphol G3 in April 2012, which probably merits a conspiracy theory all of its own
Ray Von
Here is a GIF comparing the image from the post above of 9M-MRC with Cor Pan's photo of 9M-MRD (level adjusted and slightly stretched to overlay the letters).
You can see that the D does not match the C.
You can see that the D does not match the C.
Pierre
New Member
We appear to be bombarded with aviation experts who keep telling us that the aircraft photographed by the passenger was in fact clearly RD....... on the other hand many aviation experts are saying exactly the opposite that they see it as RC (myself included)........then the experts bombard us with another photograph that strangely enough was taken by someone else (an Israeli) who could have been a plane spotter taking photographs from the upper deck (that is used by so called plane spotters). However this is not the case as the photograph that you say was sold to the media was from exactly the same level at a slightly different angle and not taken from a different floor level.
It would thus appear we have either two fictional photographs of the scheduled aircraft at G3 that were used to hype up this false flag event or that they were both taken on some other day when RC did transit Schipol......we therefore have to agree to disagree as you certainly do not have any convincing evidence to prove the true ID on the nose wheel doors!!
It would thus appear we have either two fictional photographs of the scheduled aircraft at G3 that were used to hype up this false flag event or that they were both taken on some other day when RC did transit Schipol......we therefore have to agree to disagree as you certainly do not have any convincing evidence to prove the true ID on the nose wheel doors!!
Jason
Senior Member
What experts, besides yourself of course?
Pierre
New Member
We
Well done trailblazer I am sure that most of us agree it certainly is a C and not a D......but then one has to expect intel interference on all blogs......especially when the topic is so sensitive to protect their WMD (weapons of mass deception)
Well done trailblazer I am sure that most of us agree it certainly is a C and not a D......but then one has to expect intel interference on all blogs......especially when the topic is so sensitive to protect their WMD (weapons of mass deception)
Jason
Senior Member
I honestly think you get a kick out of this. You've been provided ample evidence to the contrary, literally evidence that speaks for itself. You say experts agree with you yet all of the experts on this site don't agree with your observation. When they don't align with your way of thinking, you quickly disregard them as "intel interference" or better known as "shills". My son who's most definitely not an expert and only 10yrs of age (who has no idea whats going on with the CT's involved in this plane) was easily able to state with 100% confidence that it is a "D", and he said it best. "Dad you can see its a "D" because the back of the letter is a "straight" line."
That is not what I said at all. Cor Pan's photo clearly shows a D and not a C, as I and others on this forum have repeatedly been telling you.
Look at the GIF above: the MH17 photo clearly shows a straight upright, and the remaining parts of the right hand side of the D extend closer together than the letter C. This photo was the one taken by the MH17 passenger Cor Pan, NOT the one taken by Yaron Mofaz.
Quite simply, you are 100% wrong, Pierre.
jonnyH
Senior Member.
When the answer to your question is in an earlier post, referring you to it is perfectly sensible. Doing so saves cluttering up the thread with repetitive comments and it seems only polite to have at least read the OP before adding your own post.
Ray Von Geezer
Senior Member.
What's the relevance of aviation expertise in identifying that a flaw in some lettering, combined with a poor quality photograph, has on first glance made a 'D' look like a 'C'?
"So called plane spotters"? - Collin's English dictionary: Plane spotter - a person who observes, photographs, and catalogues aircraft as a hobby
A guide to plane spotting at Schiphol's Panorama Terrace
If you have evidence that Cor Pan didn't take his picture from the Panorama Terrace, or that the other photograph couldn't have been taken from a different location to Cor Pan's using, say, a camera zoom function, then it's probably best to show it.
To what end? RC was the other side of the world, we all know where RD ended up. Let's imagine for a second there was treachery afoot, what logical reason would there be for having a duplicate of RC at Schiphol, as opposed to.... oooh, I dunno, having a duplicate of RD, the plane which was supposed to be there anyway?
The pictorial evidence looks extremely convincing to me, and the lack of any reasonable explanation of why it might be otherwise is the icing on the proverbial cake.
Ray Von
Pierre
New Member
I would suggest that those aviation experts on your side of the fence try the same game with the more professional Pilots, Ground Engineers and Operational staff on PRUNE...........you can read into this whatever way you wish but I can assure you that I have been invited to join an independent team to cross examine the available evidence for not only MH370 but MH17.........I am sure you go with the main flow that it was Russia and their Militia that did this and no doubt you also agree with the current findings on the other..........as and when we do get a new hearing underway I will gladly send you the truth directly.......stop being a sheeple and trying being a shepherd......no doubt you also believe in 9/11 and the justification of the ongoing war on terror..........whatever you think I will respect but you must also respect that there are as many against you as for you....bye for now...... Pierre (Ex Senior Operations Executive with a Major Airline) P.S. what is your experience in aviation or that of your side kicks?
Gundersen
Senior Member.
Occam's razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor) states "that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected."
For the two competing scenarios, the plane being 9M-MRC or 9M-MRD, try to look at the unknowns. It feels like a ridiculous amount of assumptions has to be made in order for the plane being 9M-MRC to make sense at all.
"Oh, well, I guess the sun was shining on the hatch, which was bend, it made the D look like a C" vs. "Government-controlled false-flag attacks to divert our attention away from what they are really doing, making sure nobody of the involved tell, switch the planes without anybody notices and then make up fake dead passengers. Oh, and make sure all the MSM tells the correct story"
For the two competing scenarios, the plane being 9M-MRC or 9M-MRD, try to look at the unknowns. It feels like a ridiculous amount of assumptions has to be made in order for the plane being 9M-MRC to make sense at all.
"Oh, well, I guess the sun was shining on the hatch, which was bend, it made the D look like a C" vs. "Government-controlled false-flag attacks to divert our attention away from what they are really doing, making sure nobody of the involved tell, switch the planes without anybody notices and then make up fake dead passengers. Oh, and make sure all the MSM tells the correct story"
Nobody is making any claims about who shot down MH17. The ONLY claim being debunked on this thread is that the photo taken by a passenger about to board MH17 showed a different plane (9M-MRC). It doesn't, as has been amply proven here. Your conspiracy theories are not relevant here.
Several people on this forum are professional pilots. I imagine some are also contributors to PPRUNE.
Jason
Senior Member
Do we really need an aviation expert to determine if it's a letter "D" or "C"? I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. When I was referring to experts, I was exemplifying Mick and others who are professionals when it comes to photography and interpreting photography. I don't think a pilot with 20yrs experience is any more capable at identifying a letter of the alphabet than myself or any other person who knows the alphabet.
Jason
Senior Member
It's sad that you're an OP Exec with a major airline, and instead of using your skills to educate people and help them understand the aviation industry better, you've decided to situate yourself in an argument that deals with a letter in our alphabet. My level of expertise is irrelevant because I'm pretty sure we've both been through grammar school, which is the only background I need in identifying the letter "D".
NoParty
Senior Member.
I'm not going to address all your "false flag" theories that seem to be driving you
to say that that this straight-backed "D" must really be a "C."
But since you claim to "have been invited to join an independent team"
in an attempt to impress upon us your reputation/credentials,
you really need to clearly and unambiguously identify the people to whom you refer
(otherwise how would anyone know that you weren't just referring to a bunch of paranoid YouTubers...if anyone at all?)
@Pierre, please look at this June 25th 2014 photo of 9M-MRD, and tell me what you see on the front wheel cover:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/53238830@N07/14444283367
Original full resolution image: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5511/14444283367_94629208db_o_d.jpg
https://www.flickr.com/photos/53238830@N07/14444283367
Original full resolution image: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5511/14444283367_94629208db_o_d.jpg
TEEJ
Senior Member.
Why don't you try posting your theory on PPRuNe that 9M-MRC was at Schipol on the 17th July?
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/543733-mh17-down-near-donetsk.html
http://www.pprune.org/External Quote:
Pierre
New Member
You are distorting comments.......I have declared that if the photograph/s were authentic for that dreaded departure then it certainly was not RD but RC......RC did visit AMS both pre and after the event (with a transit on the 21/7/2014) so one can only assume that the photographs taken at departure are not of the departure on the day in question. There are just as many experts both for and against so as I closed off before we have to agree to disagree......I am not challenging the fact that records show 9M-MRD operating into AMS but rather the origin of the photograph and as to why the media obtains another photograph from an Israeil who also so happened to be at the same gate.....how very strange that he also photographed the alleged departure. As the administrator has already declared to me this thread is strictly only about the authenticity of the aircraft's photograph in question and so we appear to be deadlocked .....Thank you for allow me to express my own opinion.....
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
What gate?
The photo was uploaded to facebook july 17th.
https://www.facebook.com/cor.pan.7
Do you have evidence to present that it actually wasn't?
David Coulter
Senior Member.
JMHO... This thread needs to go to the dust bin. If it is a "D" fine, if it is a "C" then dead people from MH370 were loaded on MH17 in broad daylight, and the radio controlled plane was shot down by the CIA over Ukraine to start WWIII?
Of course the CT'ers will call it censorship, but Mick, please put this thread offline.
Of course the CT'ers will call it censorship, but Mick, please put this thread offline.
Pierre
New Member
What gate you ask......rather silly question as the photograph could have been taken any day 24/7 throughout the year.......the fact it was uploaded at a specific time from the intelligence perspective does not mean a thing.....in todays technology its rather simply to raise any photograph be it genuine or photo shopped no point in discussing this further
TEEJ
Senior Member.
There is another image of the Gate 3 departure on the 17th July. See post and photo by Freek.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/so...-d-partially-obscured.4006/page-2#post-118445
The photo was taken on July 17th - He believes that he sees "more of a C than a D". Just because it looks like a C it doesn't mean that it is. For example why does the "C" have a straight back?
In the Reuter's blow up the R is partially obscured along with the D. If you were taking it to extremes the R could also be interpreted as a P due to it appearing partially formed. So why are people not asking about the partially formed R? You can see it appears not to be fully formed in the image just like the D.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/so...-d-partially-obscured.4006/page-2#post-118558
Aviation enthusiasts logged 9M-MRD as being at Gate 3 on the 17th July.
'Boeing 777-200 Malaysia Airlines 9M-MRD'
http://schiphol.dutchplanespotters.nl/?date=2014-07-17
Can you not see that it purely down to misinterpretation of the lettering that is leading you down your conspiracy path? Look at the Reuter's photo and note the partially formed R and partially formed D. If you think that it is a "C" then explain why it has a straight back?
David Coulter
Senior Member.
I was being ironic. The data are obvious, thus put the thread in the dust bin.....
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
If you are going to make claims you should be willing to discuss them, especially when they are extraordinary claims of a massive operation played out in the public eye.
You said the photo was of RC when it visited the airport - now for that to be true, the plane has to be in that gate, follow?
So what gate did the plane board from when it was there? If you are an 'investigator' as you say, details like that should matter to you.
What exactly are you claiming here? Was the plane that was shot down RD? Was that the plane Cor Pan boarded? Why would someone post a photo of RC, which was easily confirmed to be elsewhere and pretend it's RD?
You have nothing but vague and baseless insinuations that make utterly no sense.
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
But if the data is obvious, then this thread is useful and doing its job. The bunk exists, this exposes it fairly clearly, hiding it would serve no purpose - it would make the bunk go unchallenged.
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