[Solved] MH-17 was 9M-MRD, so Why are there photos of 9M-MRC? ['D' partially obscured]

[WeedWhacker]

It is a "D"....please note the sharp corners.

 

[Mick West]

I'm defInately not sure but there seems to be a bigger/smaller space in between different pictures of the 'C' and D ( for example when you compare Cor pan's photo and the one of the 5th of July ). De space seems to be smaller or bigger in every picture.
Also if you look at the planespotter's photo 2013 ( top right ) the D looks tampered with if you zoom in a bit. It looks like
a C made into a D. But maybe it's the resolution of the photo... When you zoom in it gets distorted?
I don't know

Yes, that's to do with the resolution and lighting in the different photos. Compare zoomed in version of the Reuters and Cor Pan photos.

 

[WeedWhacker]

I'm defInately not sure but there seems to be a bigger/smaller space in between different pictures of the 'C' and D ( for example when you compare Cor pan's photo and the one of the 5th of July ). De space seems to be smaller or bigger in every picture.
Also if you look at the planespotter's photo 2013 ( top right ) the D looks tampered with if you zoom in a bit. It looks like
a C made into a D. But maybe it's the resolution of the photo... When you zoom in it gets distorted?
I don't know

Please also note (this is a former airline pilot here)....the Nose gear doors are a very, very typical place for the "registration" digits.

THIS because when on the Ramp, in a busy environment, it's important to KNOW which airplane is being serviced....whether it is fuel, or baggage, ETC.

NOW...of course NEAR the tail is ALSO the registration....but often (depends on the airline) there will be a reference ON THE NOSE GEAR DOORS.

A smaller airline (like 'Malaysia Airlines') might only use two digits....the LAST two of the airplane's actual registration number.

Larger airlines use 3, or even 4 digits. When I was at Continental (as example) we used a 3-digit number to identify the airplane....AGAIN, ON the Nose Gear Door!

AFTER THE merger with United, now the jets have a 4-DIGIT code. BUT, the reason remains.

 

[Haz]

Two points would be good to note.
Firstly Cor Pans photo is much closer to pushback or departure ( note the two high pressure pneumatic hoses fixed to the bottom of the aircraft) these supply high pressure air to start engines ( when APU is U/S )
I'd have to say that the APU on Cor pans aircraft is unserviceable.
Reuters pic has no hoses attached.
Both have ground power but my point is they could be different aircraft.
The other point. If a part of the airframe is interchanged for any reason ( especially an identifying part ) like the nose gear door, it would have to be re painted accordingly.
Cor pan's pic looks more like a C to me, one way to find the answer is to check the APU status on both RC and RD maintenance log history.

 

[Questioner]

I'm interested to know what caused the obscuration and why it is not present on the landing gear flap from the wreckage? Is the RD on one or both flaps..?

 

[Haz]

Here's 9M-MRD earlier this year:
http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=437417
Sorry I accidentally deleted this pic. I'm new to this forum.

 

[norp]

Hello,
I was after this from the first time I read about it and my first guess was, that's a fake although it was posted before the plane went down. But the current inactivity of his account made me suspicious, because he is regularly a busy poster. Now I found something damn interesting that indicates, that this photo/the post isn't a fake. Please look at the pictures here, somewhere in the middle you will find this. OK, the D has some scratches but it doesn't really look damaged. Only thing missing is the red stripe but since the landing gear flap is the only place where only a short code is used, at least I haven't found another place yet on images of Malaysian Airlines machines on the internet, it's a mystery again...for me.

 

[Mick West]

Hello,
I was after this from the first time I read about it and my first guess was, that's a fake although it was posted before the plane went down. But the current inactivity of his account made me suspicious, because he is regularly a busy poster. Now I found something damn interesting that indicates, that this photo/the post isn't a fake. Please look at the pictures here, somewhere in the middle you will find this. OK, the D has some scratches but it doesn't really look damaged. Only thing missing is the red stripe but since the landing gear flap is the only place where only a short code is used, at least I haven't found another place yet on images of Malaysian Airlines machines on the internet, it's a mystery again...for me.

That RD in the wreckage is from the flap on the other side (i.e. the pilot's left side).

Notice the left edge in the above photo. Here it is again perspective corrected:

And here it is showing that the red stripe would not be visible here - it's off the right side of the photo.

 

[Maarten]

On the left pic from Cor Pan, on the right normal RC plane.

 

[Mick West]

Just in case anyone doubts that's the port side in the wreckage, here's a 777 nose gear port side cover

https://www.flickr.com/photos/wbaiv/2719363357/

Notice the five screws in an upside down L on the right, they line up with the same screws on the RD in the wreckage.

These five screws are an anchor point for the hinge.

Maintenance involving removing these screws is a possible cause of the damage to the "D" on the other side, as it seems to be in the right location.

 

[WeedWhacker]

We're going to make you an honorary airline pilot one day, Mick!

 

[TEEJ]

Another conspiracy doing the rounds. This time references to windows on Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777s. It is easily debunked though but these things tend to get widely re-posted. Metabunk is quoted in the comments.

http://humansarefree.com/2014/07/busted-mh-17-was-in-fact-lost-flight-mh.html

 

[Mick West]

Another conspiracy doing the rounds. This time references to windows on Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777s. It is easily debunked though but these things tend to get widely re-posted. Metabunk is quoted in the comments.

http://humansarefree.com/2014/07/busted-mh-17-was-in-fact-lost-flight-mh.html

There's several different claims of evidence there, several of which have their own threads already. I'll do a point by point linking to the debunks.

 

[Freek]

Hi All,

i wanted to add another photo to your discussion. This photo was made by my father in law, whom went on the plane afterwards. And when i zoom in i do see more a C then a D. What do you guys think? And i think its even further away than the foto taken by Reuter.

 

[Mick West]

i wanted to add another photo to your discussion. This photo was made by my father in law, whom went on the plane afterwards. And when i zoom in i do see more a C then a D. What do you guys think? And i think its even further away than the foto taken by Reuter.

Hi Freek, very sorry about your father in law. Thank you for sharing the photo.

Unfortunately the photo is very low resolution, so does not tell us much. Basically though it's still consistent with it being RD with the D partially obscure, as is shown in several higher resolution photos.

It's interesting how it actually looks more like a D from a distance. When you zoom in you see there's not a lot to go by. Several bits of the R as missing as well.

 

[Mick West]

Aside, "Freek" is a common first name in The Netherlands. The equivalent of "Fred" or "Frederick". I mention this only in case people take the above poster less seriously because of how his name sounds to English speakers.

 

[Mick West]

On thing this photo does illustrate well is the jpeg artifacts. Basically the image is split up into 8x8 pixel squares, and each square is processed individually. This creates discontinuities between the squares

 

[TEEJ]

Also note via:
http://www.flightforum.ch/forum/showthread.php?p=906173#post906173

C has a "One World" circular logo just behind the front door, but D does not.

Large D photo (from 2011):
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Boeing_777-2H6ER_9M-MRD_Malaysian_(6658133151).jpg

2014 video from Frankfurt of 9M-MRC on push back with the "One World" logo just behind the front door.



From video description.

Airline: Malaysia Airlines
Airplane: Boeing 777-2H6/ER
Registration: 9M-MRC
Flight Number: MAS5
Route: Frankfurt (FRA) - Kuala Lumpur (KUL)
Date: 01/03/2014

Link to image of 9M-MRC showing "One World" logo

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=460869

9M-MRD never had the "One World" logo.

Another video from Frankfurt



Link to 2014 image

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=437417&size=l

 

[TEEJ]

One World symbol for reference.

 

[Mick West]

9M-MRD never had the "One World" logo.

Actually it did have the logo for part of 2013
http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=397637

http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=418832

Malaysia Airline joined Oneworld in Feb 2013.

For some reason there's no logo starting from Dec 2013.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Mala...72626/L/&sid=2c5ff42a92d10dbd87a5da9a2f25034f

 

[solrey]

Malaysia Airlines today unveiled the first aircraft in its fleet to be decorated in a special oneworld livery - one of its 10 latest Airbus A330-300s - spearheading a massive marketing drive to promote the airline's addition to the alliance.

The distinct design features "oneworld" in 6 ft (2 metre) high blue letters along a white fuselage and the airline's standard tailfin, serving as a huge flying billboard highlighting that Malaysia Airlines is now offering the full range of oneworld services and benefits.

Malaysia Airlines Group Chief Executive Ahmad Jauhari Yahya was joined by visiting CEOs from other oneworld member airlines to roll out the aircraft with its new look from the company's hangar at Kuala Lumpur International Airport this morning. Its first flight in its new design will be tomorrow (Friday 1 February) to Melbourne, as flight MH 129, departing from Kuala Lumpur at 10.15 am.

Before then, overnight tonight oneworld logos will be applied by the side passenger entrance doors on Malaysia Airlines' entire fleet of 88 aircraft as part of a massive rebranding programme that will also see the alliance logo added virtually wherever the Malaysia Airlines' name is displayed - at airport check-in desks and signage, on its website, tickets, boarding passes and all items of stationery.

Link

It would not be surprised if the marketing campaign only lasted until the end of 2013 or early 2014... at some point they would probably stop replacing those logos after damage or repaints.

 

[solrey]

Here's a pic of 9M-MRF from May 2014 without the Oneworld logo and one of 9M-MRA from July 2014 with the logo. Some planes still have the logo while others do not...

9M-MRF May 2014
http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=464011&size=m

9M-MRA July 2014
http://www.planespotters.net/Aviation_Photos/photo.show?id=485275&size=m

 

[Boriswatch]

"I'm interested to know what caused the obscuration and why it is not present on the landing gear flap from the wreckage?"

@Questioner - one reason is that it's a shiny surface that has convex curves in two dimensions. This means that on a sunny day, which it was, some part of it will reflect the sunlight at any one time, obscuring whatever's actually there. You can see this quite often with modern buses where they put curved fronts on the route indicator boxes; on a sunny day there's always a part you can't read.

So, nothing's obscured, it's just not visible due to the light reflected from the shiny paintwork.

 

[TWCobra]

For info, the aircraft I fly also sport the Oneworld logo. They are stickers, not painted, and are easily removed if required.

 

[Mick West]

"I'm interested to know what caused the obscuration and why it is not present on the landing gear flap from the wreckage?"

@Questioner - one reason is that it's a shiny surface that has convex curves in two dimensions. This means that on a sunny day, which it was, some part of it will reflect the sunlight at any one time, obscuring whatever's actually there. You can see this quite often with modern buses where they put curved fronts on the route indicator boxes; on a sunny day there's always a part you can't read.

So, nothing's obscured, it's just not visible due to the light reflected from the shiny paintwork.

I think that's part of it. However the exact same spot is grey in several independent images. I think, as I noted above, that the patch coincides with the five screws attaching the door to the hinge underneath. Likely the door was removed at some point, messing up the paint job.

 

[ScottWB]

What's with the extra set of nose gear doors in some of the photos above?

 

[Brian Griffin]

I found another interesting picture:

[Admin: Deleted repost of photo already discussed in the OP https://www.metabunk.org/threads/so...e-photos-of-9m-mrc-d-partially-obscured.4006/ ]

 

[TEEJ]

Brian,
Have you read the thread and especially the following post link? There is not a very clear RC on the nose wheel door. Take a good look at the thread and explain why if it is a C then why does the 'C' not exhibit the characteristics with the proper curves? This 'C' has sharp corners and is actually an obscured D.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/so...9m-mrc-d-partially-obscured.4006/#post-117902

Also notice in the Reuter's blow up that the R is partially obscured along with the D. If you were taking it to extremes the R could also be interpreted as a P due to it appearing partially formed. So why are people not asking about the partially formed R? You can see it appears not to be fully formed in the image just like the D.

 

[Pete Tar]

I found another interesting picture:

No sorry, pretty sure you just posted the picture that was already under discussion and had been explained; so yes, you can deny that a very clear RC is painted in the nose flap.

 

[LarryLat]

 

[Soulfly]

I think until the people (the Dutch?) who actually have control of and are deciphering the information in the black boxes come out and say something, we just have speculation.

 

[Truther7x7]

It is a "D"....please note the sharp corners.

HERE IS MALAYSIAN B777 (9M-MRC) STILL FLYING!
https://planefinder.net/data/aircraft/9M-MRC
THE PLANE WAS NOT SHOT DOWN!
THE PLANE WAS NOT SWITCHED WITH MRD!

 

[Mick West]

HERE IS MALAYSIAN B777 (9M-MRC) STILL FLYING!
https://planefinder.net/data/aircraft/9M-MRC
THE PLANE WAS NOT SHOT DOWN!
THE PLANE WAS NOT SWITCHED WITH MRD!

It's not clear what point you are making here. I think the thread here makes it quite clear the MH17 was 9M-MRD, and that 9M-MRC had nothing to do with it, and was not in the photos.

 

[Benjoo]

Hasnt every part of that 777 (MRD) its own serial number on it. Shouldnt the company http://beaerospace.com/ be able to tell us in which plane they put what kind of parts. So we could say the part from the debris in the ukraine with the number AL-S320 REV C, SER NO 215 (https://secure.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/14725465321/)for example was build in MRD and not in any other plane.

 

[MikeC]

The operator will have the records of which serial number is fitted to which a/c, not the part manufacturer. The a/c manufacturer will have a record of which parts were fitted at build - but not subsequent changes.

Also some items (not very many to be sure) are serial numbered by manufacturers but not recorded by operators as they are not subject to life or maintenance limits.

Also, as general FYI, lots of structural parts are not serial numbered at all - anything that can be made from sheet metal usually fits into this "bin".

 

[Andy Jackson]

NOTHING HAS BEEN SOLVED: "ONE WORLD" STICKY BANDITS STILL AT LARGE

There were at least TWO different planes masquerading as 9M-MRD

1997-2000 black engine sticker (no obvious letters), 4 stickers on front panel, 2 extra on right (Version 1)
2000-2005 white engine sticker with black letters, same panel stickers (Version 1)
2005-2008 wild blue color scheme (could be Version 1 or 2 underneath)
2008-2013 no outer engine stickers, 4 panel stickers, plus 1 sticker on each side of panel (Version 2)
June 2013 "One world" sticker present between 1st door and window (Version 2)
Dec 2013 "One world" sticker gone, and same engine and panel sticker pattern as 2000-2005 (Version 1)
June 2014 landing gear "RD" flap magically disappearing, looking more like "RC" (Version 1)

The last switch was made sometime between June and December of 2013.

 

[Mick West]

Andy, the changes you see are simply what happens to any plane over its lifetime. Markings change.

Both photos you show above are of 9M-MRD, the same plane.

 

[Andy Jackson]

If it is the same plane, then it was clearly repainted between June and December of 2013. What then explains the rapid deterioration of the "RD" on the landing gear flap, when the previous paint job held up just fine between '08 and '13?

Perhaps someone was in a rush and forgot the clearcoat?

 

[Mick West]

Photos are at a very different angle, and the deterioration of the D is explained by the proximity to the hinge screws.

 

[WeedWhacker]

The top photo in Post #78 with the arrow and the word "SLOPPY" is merely a slightly different angle (when photo was taken) than the one below it. (As noted in post just above).

Note, also, not only is the angle different, it's important to emphasize again that the nose gear doors are curved...they are convex on the side facing outwards.

This results in the claim, but it is only a result of the photographic perspective.