I am a Chemtrail Advocate . . . I believe there is an Aerosol Injection Program

[Mick West]

There is no known history of that nor is there record of the best Scientific minds of the nation suggesting such acts . . .

What about that DARPA research into robot hummingbirds? Cat brains on a chip?

There's plenty of history of spy apparatus disguised as animals.

You think everything Edward Teller suggests has come to pass? The same guy who wanted to drill for oil using nuclear bombs?

 

[Mick West]

Just pointing out there is a history and as they say history often repeats itself . . .

If it repeated itself, then we'd be having large area dispersal experiments with bioinert yet detectable substances. i.e. they would spray some stuff and see how far it goes.

That's history repeating itself, not a covert and miraculously effective effort to maintain the levels of SSAs at expected levels without anyone noticing.

 

[Jay Reynolds]

I say George B deserves a big round of applause, 7 pages of very intense discussion, no lost tempers, and maybe, just maybe, some progress!

 

[Noble1965]

I say George B deserves a big round of applause, 7 pages of very intense discussion, no lost tempers, and maybe, just maybe, some progress!

*golfclap*

 

[GregMc]

There is no known history of that nor is there record of the best Scientific minds of the nation suggesting such acts . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whvlp4MD3cg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSCLBG9KeX4
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-photos-insect-drones-are-here/20110713.htm

 

[firepilot]

yes, "maybe" pretty much begins all conspiracy theories, doesn't it?

Along with "maybe", there is also "what if" and "lets pretend", and "prove this wrong"

 

[firepilot]

Just pointing out there is a history and as they say history often repeats itself . . .

So are the Germans about to invade France? Can you prove they are not about to do so? I mean because they have done it before, and more than once.

 

[PCWilliams]

I say George B deserves a big round of applause, 7 pages of very intense discussion, no lost tempers, and maybe, just maybe, some progress!

I've been following this from page 1 and was just thinking the same thing. We're on page 8, still going and the discussion has been very professional and EXTREMELY informative!

 

[PCWilliams]

So are the Germans about to invade France? Can you prove they are not about to do so? I mean because they have done it before, and more than once.

Oh crap, that is funny!

I was going to say: chemtrail believers have been wrong in the past, George is a chemtrail believer, therefore he is wrong.

 

[MikeC]

There is no known history of that nor is there record of the best Scientific minds of the nation suggesting such acts . . .

There is certainly a history of the govt wanting to spy on the public, and the govt has used machinery to do it.

So I'd say you are a wee bit off base with that.

I'd like to acknowledge a previous comment too - a well tempered thread all around - well done all, especially George, who has been challenged quiet a lot!

 

[JFDee]

As a German, I want to make it perfectly clear that there is no plan to invade France - at the moment. I mean, seriously, why should we want to do that? Sentimentality?
Red wine from Germany has improved tremendously over the last decades, so we can strike that off the list. And anyway, our Lady Chancellor seems to have Pres. Sarkozy on a leash ...

On a really serious side note, one month ago I heard a lecture from a TV meteorologist who is both a colleague at work and a fellow flying club member, giving a concise wrap-up of the state of science regarding global warming. After a very sobering - even bleak - outlook on the next 30 years, the question came up what the best active remedy was apart from reducing CO2 emissions.
He said the best bet would in fact be to bring up sulfur high into the atmosphere. Not as a hidden trace in aircraft exhaust - he jokingly referred to "chemtrails" - but huge amounts that all aircrafts on the world could not even manage to carry up there in 100 years of nonstop delivery. There would be no way of covering up such a thing.

 

[Spongebob]

- he jokingly referred to "chemtrails" - but huge amounts that all aircrafts on the world could not even manage to carry up there in 100 years of nonstop delivery. There would be no way of covering up such a thing.

That sums this up for me JFDee.
No proof that anything is happening anyway
- plus the quantities and logistics involved if "they" ever were to begin such operations
- plus how in the world would they keep that "secret" ?

Has George learned anything in his time here or will he simply carry on as before?

 

[Noble1965]

That sums this up for me JFDee.
No proof that anything is happening anyway
- plus the quantities and logistics involved if "they" ever were to begin such operations
- plus how in the world would they keep that "secret" ?

Has George learned anything in his time here or will he simply carry on as before?

I have been "discussing" this subject with George for a while on GLP and trust me, he's not here to learn anything from anyone. He's here to show you people that "chemtrails" are real. The question you should be asking yourself is...have you learned anything from George. He has stated in the bast that he will always be a "chemtrail advocate".

 

[GregMc]

" and trust me, he's not here to learn anything from anyone."

Well hopefully he will have a greater appreciation of cats.

 

[Noble1965]

" and trust me, he's not here to learn anything from anyone."

Well hopefully he will have a greater appreciation of cats.

I know I sure do...I had my suspicions all along. Now I have as much evidence that robotic spy cats are real as I do that "chemtrails" are.

 

[George B]

As a German, I want to make it perfectly clear that there is no plan to invade France - at the moment. I mean, seriously, why should we want to do that? Sentimentality?
Red wine from Germany has improved tremendously over the last decades, so we can strike that off the list. And anyway, our Lady Chancellor seems to have Pres. Sarkozy on a leash ...

On a really serious side note, one month ago I heard a lecture from a TV meteorologist who is both a colleague at work and a fellow flying club member, giving a concise wrap-up of the state of science regarding global warming. After a very sobering - even bleak - outlook on the next 30 years, the question came up what the best active remedy was apart from reducing CO2 emissions.
He said the best bet would in fact be to bring up sulfur high into the atmosphere. Not as a hidden trace in aircraft exhaust - he jokingly referred to "chemtrails" - but huge amounts that all aircrafts on the world could not even manage to carry up there in 100 years of nonstop delivery. There would be no way of covering up such a thing.

Hmmmm. . . . Let's see France invaded by Germany in 1871 to 1914 = 43 years and 1914 to 1940 = 26 years, *and 1940 to 2012 = 72 years. Which is an (AIF) average invasion frequency of every 47 years . . .seems we are now 25 years overdue. . . .

"Louis Tocqueville

As a united entity Germany has invaded France in 1914 and 1940. However, Prussia (the largest proto German state) and a confederation of smaller states invaded France in the Franco-Prussian War of 1871. Similarly, the Holy Roman Empire (800-1805), a body covering most of Germany as we recognise it but also including north italian states, has invaded France on a few occassions, notably under Charles V in the 1500s and the invasion which led to the battle of Bouvines in early 13th century. . . "

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110406035410AAbk13f

 

[George B]

Now IMO that is the best question asked so far . . . let me think about how to answer that for awhile . . .

"If it WERE being done, then what possible reason would there be for doing it secretly?"

Now IMO that is the best question asked so far . . . let me think about how to answer that for awhile . . .

1) The decision to conduct Aerosol Injection is coupled with national security issues that are top secret and cannot be compromised*
2) The reason for the decision to conduct Aerosol Injection is potentially terrifying the populous and would cause panic
3) The institution conducting the Aerosol Injecting is not governmental and has no need or desire for interference from government or the public. . .*
4) The reason for or the Aerosol Injection, itself, is dangerous to the welfare and well being of the citizens*
5) This is related to number one. . . It is a form of weapon, weapon *detection system, or weapon countermeasure *. . . And this should not be telegraphed to the potential advisory*
6) Public disclosure would jeopardize proprietary intellectual rights to patents and procedure. . . This is weak but I am including the kitchen sink. . . .

 

[George B]

It has become apparent to me . . . The evidence that I have been presenting for the most part is not exciting to the collective group here so let me take a different tact if you will allow. . . One that was my intention from the beginning . . .

I would like to demonstrate to you. . . . why IMO people like myself are advocates . . . As I stated earlier . . . Two years ago I had no opinion. . . But after being relegated the duty, more or less, to argue that the Chemtrail conspiracy was true I found myself on that side of the ledger. . .

 

[Noble1965]

It has become apparent to me . . . The evidence that I have been presenting for the most part is not exciting to the collective group here so let me take a different tact if you will allow. . . One that was my intention from the beginning . . .

I would like to demonstrate to you. . . . why IMO people like myself are advocates . . . As I stated earlier . . . Two years ago I had no opinion. . . But after being relegated the duty, more or less, to argue that the Chemtrail conspiracy was true I found myself on that side of the ledger. . .

What evidence?

 

[George B]

As I have stated I have 30 years experience in the Military and Government service with a few years of corporate experience working with companies that contract to do government project management . . .

My education, certifications and experience are in the following areas listed In no particular order . . .
1) Industrial Psychology
2) Clinical Pathology
3) Environmental Science
4) Military Science
5) Law
6) Investigation
7) Troubleshooter
8) Military Command
9) Medical Research and Automation

 

[George B]

What evidence?

The evidence I accept as relevant and that which you do not accept . .

 

[Noble1965]

The evidence I accept as relevant and that which you do not accept . .

I'm sorry. I just haven't seen any evidence presented. I've seen statements of belief presented AS evidence. But, nothing that suggests that "chemtrails" exist.

 

[George B]

I'm sorry. I just haven't seen any evidence presented. I've seen statements of belief presented AS evidence. But, nothing that suggests that "chemtrails" exist.

That is the exact issue I would like to dissect and explain. . . How can two groups of people see the world so differently. . . .

 

[Noble1965]

That is the exact issue I would like to dissect and explain. . . How can two groups of people see the world so differently. . . .

I have no idea. I can only speak for myself. So far, I see no compelling evidence that says "chemtrails" are anything more than an urban legend.

I have seen the same "evidence" that you have seen, yet I remain unconvinced.

I'm sorry, just because "they" have supposedly done similar things in the past, involving airplanes and "chemicals"...doesn't mean that there is a global "spray operation" involving injecting anything into the atmosphere...intentionally.

It seems to me that you are ALLOWING a particular world view to form your beliefs.

I have yet to see any compelling evidence, form ANYONE, that suggests any such program.

Isn't it at least POSSIBLE that you are wrong?

I admit i could be wrong, which is why I keep asking FOR the evidence. Yet, it never comes.

 

[George B]

I think this poll I conducted on GLP is a good beginning. . . It actually turned out better than I thought. . . Of course, it is not a Scientific Poll. . . .it was for fun but I think does reveal some of the things that separate people in their world view and what the accept as possible. . .

POLL: Are you a Conspiracy nut Poll? . . Choose one response. . .
2. *I believe at least (12) are real. . . Enthusiast *27.7% (64)
1. *I believe at least (6) are real or less . . . Skeptic *23.4% (54)
3. *I believe at least (18) are real. . . GLP Mainstream *23.4% (54)
6. *I believe in all 30 and more. . . Tin Foil Hat Award *14.7% (34)
4. *I believe at least (24) are real. . . Next GLP MOD *7.8% (18)
5. *I believe at least (30) are real. . . Consider Meds *3.0% (7)
Blank (View Results) (35)

Non-Blank Votes: 231

Are you a Conspiracy nut Poll? . . . You are if you believe all these Conspiracies are real. . .

1. *I believe at least (6) are real or less . . . Skeptic
2. *I believe at least (12) are real. . . Enthusiast
3. *I believe at least (18) are real. . . GLP Mainstream
4. *I believe at least (24) are real. . . Next GLP MOD
5. *I believe at least (30) are real. . . Consider Meds
6. *I believe in all 30 and more. . . Tin Foil Hat Award*

The (30) conspiracies are listed below . . .

The greatest Conspiracies . . . History's greatest conspiracy theories
[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]*

1) 11 September 2001 WTC Attack . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
2) The assassination of John F Kennedy . . .*
[link to en.wikipedia.org]*
3) A flying saucer crashed at Roswell in 1947 . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
4) Nasa faked the moon landings. . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
5) The Illuminati and the New World Order . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
6) The Jesus conspiracy - novel (The Da Vinci Code) . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
7) Diana, Princess of Wales, was murdered . . .*
[link to en.wikipedia.org]*
8) Elvis Presley faked his own death . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
9) Operation Northwoods - A genuine conspiracy involving a plan by the Joint Chiefs of Staff . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
10) MK-ULTRA - The code name for a covert mind-control and chemical interrogation research program . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
11) North American Union . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
12) Shakespeare was somebody else . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
13) The disappearance of Shergar (race horse) On February 8, 1983 . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
14) Paul is dead - “Paul is dead” *replaced by a look-alike and sound-
alike. McCartney’s death . . . *[link to en.wikipedia.org]*
15) The July 7, 2005 Tube bombings (London) . . . [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
16) The Moscow apartment bombings *[link to en.wikipedia.org]*
17) Black or unmarked helicopters *[link to en.wikipedia.org]*
18) Harold Wilson (British Labor Party Leader)
was a Soviet agent [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
19) The Protocols of the Elders of Zion [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
20) The peak oil conspiracy [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
21) Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen*
[link to en.wikipedia.org]*
22) The Philadelphia Experiment - the US Navy destroyer Eldridge was*
rendered invisible [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
23) Pan Am Flight 103 - Lockerbie in southern Scotland [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
24) Fluoridation - Fluoride is commonly added to drinking water [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
25) The 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami [link to freeinternetpress.com]*
26) Plastic coffins and concentration camps - Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) [link to rationalwiki.org]*
27) HAARP - Alaska, is the Pentagon's High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
28) The Aids virus was created in a laboratory [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
29) Global warming is a hoax [link to en.wikipedia.org]*
30) Chemtrails. [link to en.wikipedia.org]*

 

[George B]

I have no idea. I can only speak for myself. So far, I see no compelling evidence that says "chemtrails" are anything more than an urban legend.

I have seen the same "evidence" that you have seen, yet I remain unconvinced.

I'm sorry, just because "they" have supposedly done similar things in the past, involving airplanes and "chemicals"...doesn't mean that there is a global "spray operation" involving injecting anything into the atmosphere...intentionally.

It seems to me that you are ALLOWING a particular world view to form your beliefs.

I have yet to see any compelling evidence, form ANYONE, that suggests any such program.

Isn't it at least POSSIBLE that you are wrong?

I admit i could be wrong, which is why I keep asking FOR the evidence. Yet, it never comes.

Sure it is possible I am wrong. . . Everyone has to accept the limitations to their knowledge and ability to analyze that knowledge . . . Especially when perfect knowledge is not possible. . .

 

[Noble1965]

I think this poll I conducted on GLP is a good beginning. . . It actually turned out better than I thought. . . Of course, it is not a Scientific Poll. . . .it was for fun but I think does reveal some of the things that separate people in their world view and what the accept as possible. . .

All I see is that it shows that the majority of people on a conspiracy site believe in conspiracies.

It could also show that certain types of people are more likely to become members of such a site because of a predisposition to accept alternate realities based on circumstantial evidence. While a majority of people in the world require a bit more...

Are those who require more, somehow "wrong" in your opinion? I'm sorry...I need more than "they have done bad things in the past involving airplanes" in order to even BEGIN to accept the chemtrail urban legend as truth.

 

[Noble1965]

Sure it is possible I am wrong. . . Everyone has to accept the limitations to their knowledge and ability to analyze that knowledge . . . Especially when perfect knowledge is not possible. . .

Thanks. That's all I wanted to know...

 

[George B]

I think this poll I conducted on GLP is a good beginning. . . It actually turned out better than I thought. . . Of course, it is not a Scientific Poll. . . .it was for fun but I think does reveal some of the things that separate people in their world view and what the accept as possible. . .

POLL: Are you a Conspiracy nut Poll? . . Choose one response. . .
2. *I believe at least (12) are real. . . Enthusiast *27.7% (64)
1. *I believe at least (6) are real or less . . . Skeptic *23.4% (54)
3. *I believe at least (18) are real. . . GLP Mainstream *23.4% (54)
6. *I believe in all 30 and more. . . Tin Foil Hat Award *14.7% (34)
4. *I believe at least (24) are real. . . Next GLP MOD *7.8% (18)
5. *I believe at least (30) are real. . . Consider Meds *3.0% (7)
Blank (View Results) (35)

Non-Blank Votes: 231

Are you a Conspiracy nut Poll? . . . You are if you believe all these Conspiracies are real. . .

1. *I believe at least (6) are real or less . . . Skeptic
2. *I believe at least (12) are real. . . Enthusiast
3. *I believe at least (18) are real. . . GLP Mainstream
4. *I believe at least (24) are real. . . Next GLP MOD
5. *I believe at least (30) are real. . . Consider Meds
6. *I believe in all 30 and more. . . Tin Foil Hat Award*

The (30) conspiracies are listed below . . .

The greatest Conspiracies . . . History's greatest conspiracy theories
[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]*

.wikipedia.org]*

Seems the Debunkers. . . At least the one's who communicated with me and there were several. . . Found themselves in the skeptic category. . . You may want to take a look and see where you find yourselves. . . . . . Just for fun. . .

 

[George B]

All I see is that it shows that the majority of people on a conspiracy site believe in conspiracies.

It could also show that certain types of people are more likely to become members of such a site because of a predisposition to accept alternate realities based on
circumstantial evidence. While a majority of people in the world require a bit more...

Are those who require more, somehow "wrong" in your opinion? I'm sorry...I need more than "they have done bad things in the past involving airplanes" in order to even BEGIN to accept the chemtrail urban legend as truth.

I am placing no value on whether one is a Skeptic or otherwise. . . I am reporting the Poll findings. . . I am attempting to lay a foundation for further discussion . . .

 

[Noble1965]

Seems the Debunkers. . . At least the one's who communicated with me and there were several. . . Found themselves in the skeptic category. . . You may want to take a look and see where you find yourselves. . . . . . Just for fun. . .

Those "conspiracies" have varying levels of evidence to support them. Some, much more than "chemtrails", others no where near...

Also, the wording of the poll is a bit odd...the skeptic choice is the ONLY choice which allows less than 6...which includes ZERO!

It's the choice I picked....for just that reason.

 

[Noble1965]

I am placing no value on whether one is a Skeptic or otherwise. . . I am reporting the Poll findings. . . I am attempting to lay a foundation for further discussion . . .

You do that...

 

[George B]

What I was beginning to see more clearly is there are different ways people process data, evidence, knowledge and form opinions and beliefs. . . So I looked at myself and tried to analyze my process and belief structure. . . So I took my poll and found something interesting. . . .

 

[George B]

What I was beginning to see more clearly is there are different ways people process data, evidence, knowledge and form opinions and beliefs. . . So I looked at myself and tried to analyze my process and belief structure. . . So I took my poll and found something interesting. . . .

I found that I recognized at least 18 of the conspiracies had merit to me . . So I was in the mainstream of the GLP voters. . . Remember CHEMTRAILs is only one of 30 conspiracies. . .

 

[firepilot]

That is the exact issue I would like to dissect and explain. . . How can two groups of people see the world so differently. . . .

Because some people are predisposed to accept with little to no proof, anything that they can imagine as plausible, without requiring evidence. If you can accept it, you will believe it and have faith that it is occuring, until proven wrong

You have used words like Hunch, Faith, Intuition, which are obviously not words to use when you have had evidence. And actually what you have presented, was pretty well debunked. The articles you presented, clearly presented conclusions different than what you read into them. That article was not about aerosols being injected, or some big increase in aerosols either, actually it has suspected gaseous emissions from volcanos as being a big culprit in aerosol formation. But somehow you read into it, that there was some big increase in aerosols and they did not know how, but neither was there an increase, and the source were not actual mystery.

There is probably nothing that will divert you from your chemtrail faith, because it is not a patter of it being proven to you, in your mind it is going on, and you will believe it until somehow someone comes up with something there proves it wrong for it. You have set such a low standard of proof that it is happening, and an impossibly high level of proof to debunk it

I believe that extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence. And while you have the first, you absolutely do not have the latter.

 

[George B]

Those "conspiracies" have varying levels of evidence to support them. Some, much more than "chemtrails", others no where near...

Also, the wording of the poll is a bit odd...the skeptic choice is the ONLY choice which allows less than 6...which includes ZERO!

It's the choice I picked....for just that reason.

I never said it was a scientific poll or perfect in any way. . . But you found your way through. . . And I think it probably characterizes your position on conspiracies. . . Nevertheless

 

[Noble1965]

I found that I recognized at least 18 of the conspiracies had merit to me . . So I was in the mainstream of the GLP voters. . . Remember CHEMTRAILs is only one of 30 conspiracies. . .

No, "chemtrails" is one of THOUSANDS of conspiracy theories. Don't limit that number by your list.

 

[Noble1965]

I never said it was a scientific poll or perfect in any way. . . But you found your way through. . . And I think it probably characterizes your position on conspiracies. . . Nevertheless

How could you?

 

[George B]

Because some people are predisposed to accept with little to no skepticism, anything that they can imagine as plausible, without requiring evidence. Actually it becomes the opposite, they will accept it, until someone will prove them wrong.

You have used words like Hunch, Faith, Intuition, which are obviously not words to use when you have had evidence. And actually what you have presented, was pretty well debunked. The articles you presented, pretty clearly presented conclusions different than what you read into them. That article was not about aerosols being injected, or some big increase in aerosols either, actually it has suspected gaseous emissions from volcanos as being a bit culprit in aerosol formation. But someone you read into it, that there was some big increase in

aerosols and they did not know how, but neither was there an increase, and the source were not actual mystery.

There is probably nothing that will divert you from your chemtrail faith, because it is not a patter of it being proven to you, in your mind it is going on, and you will believe it until somehow someone comes up with something there proves it wrong

for it.

I believe that extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence. And while you have the first, you absolutely do not have the latter

You have just listed several issues and positions that are almost always raised by debunkers of CHEMTRAILs. . . I know that you feel strongly about what you have said and feel you are dead on correct in everything you posted. . . I am attempting to explain why you see you are correct and why I feel I am correct . . . There are basic reasons for this. . .

 

[Noble1965]

Because some people are predisposed to accept with little to no proof, anything that they can imagine as plausible, without requiring evidence. If you can accept it, you will believe it and have faith that it is occuring, until proven wrong

You have used words like Hunch, Faith, Intuition, which are obviously not words to use when you have had evidence. And actually what you have presented, was pretty well debunked. The articles you presented, clearly presented conclusions different than what you read into them. That article was not about aerosols being injected, or some big increase in aerosols either, actually it has suspected gaseous emissions from volcanos as being a bit culprit in aerosol formation. But someone you read into it, that there was some big increase in aerosols and they did not know how, but neither was there an increase, and the source were not actual mystery.

There is probably nothing that will divert you from your chemtrail faith, because it is not a patter of it being proven to you, in your mind it is going on, and you will believe it until somehow someone comes up with something there proves it wrong for it. You have set such a low standard of proof that it is happening, and an impossibly high level of proof to debunk it

I believe that extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence. And while you have the first, you absolutely do not have the latter.

Well written.