I listened to one of the recent episodes of the Joe Rogan Experience (#2091 -
Source: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4sGLqsYOSb2HMxk2NUThIE?si=64ac5adb543d44b7
) podcast with Diana W. Pasulka, and there were really quite a few strange topics there, which I haven't yet riserched well, but I'll note here (along with my brief commentary.) so that they don't slip away
- I present one by one an interesting claims Pasulka made during the conversation:
1) PLATO VISITED THE DIFFERENT LEVEL OF REALITY: The ancient Greek philosopher Plato is supposed to have claimed that the world of ideas is accessible to man and one can find oneself there (spiritually). By keeping one's body in good physical condition and proper meditation techniques, one can find oneself in an altered state of consciousness and see in it that other dimension where these other entities are, where there is truth, wisdom and one can derive knowledge from there. Plato was supposed to know this and practice it, and teach it to his students. Similar techniques are supposed to be used today by people who have devoted themselves to the study of the UFO phenomenon.
Comment: Caring about physical development and education was a model of good education for elites in Plato's time. I don't know Plato's works well, but from what I'm vaguely familiar with his works he was indeed concerned with the study of the essence of things, he created the concept of the world of ideas, of which reality is a reflection, and Plato's cave metaphor, but I don't remember a story about him moving into some state of higher consciousness and visiting these places, it was more of a metaphor showing his philosophical views.
2) UFO PHENOMENON IS OBJECTIVE, AND COMES FROM OUTSIDE OF HUMANITY Pasulka claims that the UFO phenomenon affects the consciousness of experiencers, and here the options are two: either the phenomenon has a subjective character and comes from within the human being (some kind of imagination resulting from cultural backgroudn) or it has an objective character and comes from the outside, i.e. from an external intelligence that affects the human consciousness. Pasulka claims that, according to her, this phenomenon has an objective character and it is simply something that has access to our consciousness and sometimes contacts us. At the same time, Pasulka does not think that these beings are from another planet, nor from another place, but from another dimension - they are simply somewhere else not here but far away. As for the objects we can observe, she claims that they have characteristics of both our reality (which is why they can be recorded, seen, touched), but in addition to that they have characteristics of another dimension, so they can ignore our physics and logic.
Comment: In my opinion, the interdimensional aspect of UFOs works like a card from the well-known board game Monopoly "you walk free from the prison [of logic]". As far as I know it was created in response to the shortcomings of the extraterrestrial hypothesis, i.e. at first it was thought that UFOs and aliens were simply beings from other planets, but over time case studies showed such a huge number of quirks, inconsistencies and fantastic features that no single explanation could be fashioned from it. Then, among others, Jacques Vallée (I don't know if he was the first) proposed an alternative solution, that these entities come from places different not locally, but also temporally and dimensionally. In short: pure magic that can be used to explain anything. A classic example of explaining the unknown by the unknown - we can't explain the UFO phenomenon on the basis of the elements of reality that are known to us, so we bring to life vibrant and intelligent multiworlds that we don't have the faintest idea about, and thanks to them we explain all the inaccuracies that exist in the UFO phenomenon - after all, multiworlds can be governed by their physics, time, logic, etc. so we can't exclude anything as impossible. It is worth noting in passing that Pasulka knows Jacques Vallée personally and spoke with him on the occasion of her book while visiting him at home.
3) THERE ARE CRASH SITES FROM 40s WHERE YOU CAN STILL FIND A META-MATERIALS FROM UFO: Perhaps the strangest story concerns her visit to the site of an alleged spacecraft crash in New Mexico. Pasulka claims that she was taken there by a millionaire involved in the Space Force and Gary Nolan was also there with her. They were blindfolded and taken somewhere in the desert, but it wasn't Roswell, somewhere in the area, but that wasn't it. When the blindfold was removed she said she knew the place, and her host said it was in the X-Files series because someone with insider knowledge of the UFO program was supposed to be working on the series. The incident was said to have occurred in the 1940s and was one of several similar ones (similar to Roswell), about four at a similar time. The site is not guarded, but once the government extracted what it was supposed to extract from here, they carted away the rubble here and the place where the object hit is covered with piles of rusted rubble. According to Pasulka, the government wasn't sure it had excavated all the fragments so they brought the rubble here to mix it with possible UFO pieces. They spent about 10 hours there where they dig the ground looking for UFO remnants - and of course they found them. According to their host, these fragments are meta-materials, which are of unknown origin and have a completely different structure from terrestrial metals, but fortunately the host had invented something like a meta-material detector which made it easier for them to find this and dig it out of the ground (Nolan dug it up with his own hands) - they recovered material similar to frog skin, among other things, which could be easily crumpled and then returned to its shape (a story as old as Roswell). Interestingly, UFO researchers do not treat these sites as crash sites but as a "donation", as if these aliens were specifically leaving us material to study.
Comment: It's hard for me to imagine that the almighty government excavated a UFO, but since they didn't want to fully search the area they covered the desert with rusted rubble and left it, and now if you know where, you can go and poke around. I'm intrigued by this meta-material detector - on what principle does it work to detect unknown materials so as to distinguish them from known, human ones?
4) UFO PROGRAM DATES BACK TO EARLY XX CENTURY, AND IS MANAGED THROUGH ORAL TRADITION BY PEOPLE, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW: The UFO Program is real and has been going on for many years. It is older than Roswell, having been created most likely as early as the beginning of the 20th century. However, it is deeply hidden from the public. The Blue Book Project, ufologists and well-known names from the UFO world are just a show, while the real program is run by people that no one knows and leave no traces, because they rely on oral tradition. They pass on knowledge and talk about UFOs without recording anything, so it is impossible to find evidence of this. They even have a saying that when they start talking about the Program, they use the phrase "pencils up," which means that it is not recorded or written down. On the subject of doubts about effective transmission, Pasulka says that people underestimate oral transmission, which is not at all a game of deaf telephone, but has much more historical truth in it, and there are known cases that oral tradition has been preserved for more than 10,000 years.
Comment: basing the Program on people unknown to anyone, who leave no trace in writing, is another way to make the Program independent of facts. You won't find anything or anyone, because these people are unknown and don't write about it. The lack of written evidence, as it were, confirms that the Program is masking itself well. I'm also curious what Pasulka means when she talks about an oral tradition that has survived unchanged for over 10,000 years. I don't know of any such tradition, and if any oral stories arrive from the time before writing (usually from a few thousand years, not 10,000) they just arrive in fragments, in mere motifs or just in many different versions.
That's it for now, but Diana Pasulka looked like a person who is totally down the rabbit hole up to her ears during this conversation,
Source: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4sGLqsYOSb2HMxk2NUThIE?si=64ac5adb543d44b7
) podcast with Diana W. Pasulka, and there were really quite a few strange topics there, which I haven't yet riserched well, but I'll note here (along with my brief commentary.) so that they don't slip away
- I present one by one an interesting claims Pasulka made during the conversation:
1) PLATO VISITED THE DIFFERENT LEVEL OF REALITY: The ancient Greek philosopher Plato is supposed to have claimed that the world of ideas is accessible to man and one can find oneself there (spiritually). By keeping one's body in good physical condition and proper meditation techniques, one can find oneself in an altered state of consciousness and see in it that other dimension where these other entities are, where there is truth, wisdom and one can derive knowledge from there. Plato was supposed to know this and practice it, and teach it to his students. Similar techniques are supposed to be used today by people who have devoted themselves to the study of the UFO phenomenon.
Comment: Caring about physical development and education was a model of good education for elites in Plato's time. I don't know Plato's works well, but from what I'm vaguely familiar with his works he was indeed concerned with the study of the essence of things, he created the concept of the world of ideas, of which reality is a reflection, and Plato's cave metaphor, but I don't remember a story about him moving into some state of higher consciousness and visiting these places, it was more of a metaphor showing his philosophical views.
2) UFO PHENOMENON IS OBJECTIVE, AND COMES FROM OUTSIDE OF HUMANITY Pasulka claims that the UFO phenomenon affects the consciousness of experiencers, and here the options are two: either the phenomenon has a subjective character and comes from within the human being (some kind of imagination resulting from cultural backgroudn) or it has an objective character and comes from the outside, i.e. from an external intelligence that affects the human consciousness. Pasulka claims that, according to her, this phenomenon has an objective character and it is simply something that has access to our consciousness and sometimes contacts us. At the same time, Pasulka does not think that these beings are from another planet, nor from another place, but from another dimension - they are simply somewhere else not here but far away. As for the objects we can observe, she claims that they have characteristics of both our reality (which is why they can be recorded, seen, touched), but in addition to that they have characteristics of another dimension, so they can ignore our physics and logic.
Comment: In my opinion, the interdimensional aspect of UFOs works like a card from the well-known board game Monopoly "you walk free from the prison [of logic]". As far as I know it was created in response to the shortcomings of the extraterrestrial hypothesis, i.e. at first it was thought that UFOs and aliens were simply beings from other planets, but over time case studies showed such a huge number of quirks, inconsistencies and fantastic features that no single explanation could be fashioned from it. Then, among others, Jacques Vallée (I don't know if he was the first) proposed an alternative solution, that these entities come from places different not locally, but also temporally and dimensionally. In short: pure magic that can be used to explain anything. A classic example of explaining the unknown by the unknown - we can't explain the UFO phenomenon on the basis of the elements of reality that are known to us, so we bring to life vibrant and intelligent multiworlds that we don't have the faintest idea about, and thanks to them we explain all the inaccuracies that exist in the UFO phenomenon - after all, multiworlds can be governed by their physics, time, logic, etc. so we can't exclude anything as impossible. It is worth noting in passing that Pasulka knows Jacques Vallée personally and spoke with him on the occasion of her book while visiting him at home.
3) THERE ARE CRASH SITES FROM 40s WHERE YOU CAN STILL FIND A META-MATERIALS FROM UFO: Perhaps the strangest story concerns her visit to the site of an alleged spacecraft crash in New Mexico. Pasulka claims that she was taken there by a millionaire involved in the Space Force and Gary Nolan was also there with her. They were blindfolded and taken somewhere in the desert, but it wasn't Roswell, somewhere in the area, but that wasn't it. When the blindfold was removed she said she knew the place, and her host said it was in the X-Files series because someone with insider knowledge of the UFO program was supposed to be working on the series. The incident was said to have occurred in the 1940s and was one of several similar ones (similar to Roswell), about four at a similar time. The site is not guarded, but once the government extracted what it was supposed to extract from here, they carted away the rubble here and the place where the object hit is covered with piles of rusted rubble. According to Pasulka, the government wasn't sure it had excavated all the fragments so they brought the rubble here to mix it with possible UFO pieces. They spent about 10 hours there where they dig the ground looking for UFO remnants - and of course they found them. According to their host, these fragments are meta-materials, which are of unknown origin and have a completely different structure from terrestrial metals, but fortunately the host had invented something like a meta-material detector which made it easier for them to find this and dig it out of the ground (Nolan dug it up with his own hands) - they recovered material similar to frog skin, among other things, which could be easily crumpled and then returned to its shape (a story as old as Roswell). Interestingly, UFO researchers do not treat these sites as crash sites but as a "donation", as if these aliens were specifically leaving us material to study.
Comment: It's hard for me to imagine that the almighty government excavated a UFO, but since they didn't want to fully search the area they covered the desert with rusted rubble and left it, and now if you know where, you can go and poke around. I'm intrigued by this meta-material detector - on what principle does it work to detect unknown materials so as to distinguish them from known, human ones?
4) UFO PROGRAM DATES BACK TO EARLY XX CENTURY, AND IS MANAGED THROUGH ORAL TRADITION BY PEOPLE, WE DON'T EVEN KNOW: The UFO Program is real and has been going on for many years. It is older than Roswell, having been created most likely as early as the beginning of the 20th century. However, it is deeply hidden from the public. The Blue Book Project, ufologists and well-known names from the UFO world are just a show, while the real program is run by people that no one knows and leave no traces, because they rely on oral tradition. They pass on knowledge and talk about UFOs without recording anything, so it is impossible to find evidence of this. They even have a saying that when they start talking about the Program, they use the phrase "pencils up," which means that it is not recorded or written down. On the subject of doubts about effective transmission, Pasulka says that people underestimate oral transmission, which is not at all a game of deaf telephone, but has much more historical truth in it, and there are known cases that oral tradition has been preserved for more than 10,000 years.
Comment: basing the Program on people unknown to anyone, who leave no trace in writing, is another way to make the Program independent of facts. You won't find anything or anyone, because these people are unknown and don't write about it. The lack of written evidence, as it were, confirms that the Program is masking itself well. I'm also curious what Pasulka means when she talks about an oral tradition that has survived unchanged for over 10,000 years. I don't know of any such tradition, and if any oral stories arrive from the time before writing (usually from a few thousand years, not 10,000) they just arrive in fragments, in mere motifs or just in many different versions.
That's it for now, but Diana Pasulka looked like a person who is totally down the rabbit hole up to her ears during this conversation,