Debunked: Agenda 21, ICLEI, Sovereignty, UN, Depopulation

[Solastalgia]

When I first read the statement about Wasson "who brought the magic mushroom to America" it took me a minute to figure out what you meant because there are a lot of Psilocybe species native to North America. The result of Wasson's article, "Seeking the Magic Mushroom", being published in Life Magazine was to bring awareness of magic mushrooms to a wider mainstream audience. Is that what you meant?

Yep.

 

[triccaj]

Has anyone on here actually read agenda 21...?

I read the first 2 pages of this thread and gave up as it's all nonsense.

If you read the whole document, which is painful, you will see it states objective facts (bear in mind it was written in the late 90's, a very different world to today)... the facts are; a) there were too many people and with current methods of food production and distribution the trend showed we were headed to an unsustainable future b) if we continued, the only resolution would be to limit population through government action/social engineering.

It also acknowledges that technological progress should also continue and that it could well resolve all of the aforementioned issues, however, since there are no guarantees in tech advances, we have to acknowledge the hard facts - hence Agenda 21. The 'conspiracy theory' aspect is in essence true... however it's not a conspiracy, it's just facts - if there isn't enough food, people will die, thus we need a plan!?

Oh btw - I'm new to the forum and am a Deathsquad junkie so be nice !

 

[dan theman]

The people are not given a choice, and never are. The Delphi method is used to manipulate people in to agreeing with and going along with what happens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method

Why?

Because your owners don't want that.

That video just proves that you don't have freedom of choice.

You have owners; THEY OWN YOU. They've got you by the balls.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS.

They have a big club, and YOU aint in it.

 

[haarp]

The left said the same thing about the EU (European Union) but as with all lefty dreams, they don't remain static and the centralized state continues to expand. Less and less laws are being made in the UK and the people who the laws actually govern are having less say over how they live. Human well being is of no concern to the state, people on the left will most likely agree with Agenda 21 and have no problem letting it go unopposed or having checks and balances, but it is operated by the self anointed who already think this is the best action to take, no evidence asked or given.

 

[David Fraser]

The left said the same thing about the EU (European Union) but as with all lefty dreams, they don't remain static and the centralized state continues to expand. Less and less laws are being made in the UK and the people who the laws actually govern are having less say over how they live. Human well being is of no concern to the state, people on the left will most likely agree with Agenda 21 and have no problem letting it go unopposed or having checks and balances, but it is operated by the self anointed who already think this is the best action to take, no evidence asked or given.

Have you evidence on the claim less laws are made in the UK?

 

[cosmic]

All the scaremongering really isn't necessary.

Agenda 21: Death by Sustainability? (Skeptoid)

 

[haarp]

Phew, now I can rest easy after reading an article written by someone who is pro agenda 21 and pro further centralization. Anyone who questions giving billions and billions of public money to a bureaucracy of self anointed eco nuts must be a conspiratard.

 

[MikeC]

Phew, now I can rest easy after reading an article written by someone who is pro agenda 21 and pro further centralization. Anyone who questions giving billions and billions of public money to a bureaucracy of self anointed eco nuts must be a conspiratard.

What billions to what bureaucracy?

 

[Joe]

The people are not given a choice, and never are. The Delphi method is used to manipulate people in to agreeing with and going along with what happens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delphi_method

Why?

Because your owners don't want that.

That video just proves that you don't have freedom of choice.

You have owners; THEY OWN YOU. They've got you by the balls.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS.

They have a big club, and YOU aint in it.

Iv been to the meeting and was Delphied . They however failed at their attempt. The Seven50 program Seven Counties Fifty year plan fell short . They are down to 4 counties . Its all corruption . Its also political . Here is a email I just received and how we are defeating it . I believe Jay Reynolds from this site said they defeated something similar in Arkansas .

What: Stuart City Commission Meeting
When: Jan 27, 2014
Time: 5:30 pm EST
Where: Commission Chambers
121 Southwest Flagler Avenue, Stuart, FL 34994, USA

Please visit http://connect.freedomworks.org/node/425040 to view the event
and RSVP

Personal Message:
Please share with all of your contacts!

This event is hosted on FreedomConnector. FreedomConnector helps you find
like-minded activists, groups, and events right in your own neighborhood.
It's brought to you by FreedomWorks.

Regards,
The FreedomConnector Team

 

[Joe]

What billions to what bureaucracy?

here is a small sample

HUD Sustainable Communities Regional Planning Grants

In June 2010, HUD opened the application process for the $100-million Sustainable Communities Regaional Planning Grant program. This program will support metropolitan and "multijurisdictional planning efforts that integrate housing, land use, economic and workforce development, transportation, and infrastructure investments."

 

[cosmic]

here is a small sample

That's from page six of the Environmental Justice and Sustainability Reference Deskbook, but what makes you think that has anything to do with the UN or Agenda 21?

 

[Joe]

That's from page six of the Environmental Justice and Sustainability Reference Deskbook, but what makes you think that has anything to do with the UN or Agenda 21?

Because its HUD that is funding all of these projects . Be it Seven50 or Onebayarea . They can call it whatever they want but it is Agenda 21 and this thread is not Debunked . Environmental Justice what a bunch of communist crap . De-industrialization of America .

 

[cosmic]

Because its HUD that is funding all of these projects . Be it Seven50 or Onebayarea . They can call it whatever they want but it is Agenda 21 and this thread is not Debunked . Environmental Justice what a bunch of communist crap . De-industrialization of America .

Your unsupported assertions do not constitute evidence.

 

[Joe]

Your unsupported assertions do not constitute evidence.

There is plenty of evidence and much of it is on this thread if you chose to ignore it then dont worry about it . Leave it to us who pay attention and know a Trojan horse when they see one . Its HUD EPA DOT ECT.

 

[Pete Tar]

Because its HUD that is funding all of these projects . Be it Seven50 or Onebayarea . They can call it whatever they want but it is Agenda 21 and this thread is not Debunked . Environmental Justice what a bunch of communist crap . De-industrialization of America .

What makes it communistic?
Are you against sustainability and environmental regulation in general, or just this particular way of doing it?

 

[cosmic]

There is plenty of evidence and much of it is on this thread if you chose to ignore it then dont worry about it . Leave it to us who pay attention and know a Trojan horse when they see one . Its HUD EPA DOT ECT.

Claiming you "pay attention" (and insinuating others don't) simply isn't an answer -- you'll need to substantiate your statements. Are there earlier relevant posts which address the question I asked you? If so, point them out. If not, post substance instead of speculation.

 

[Joe]

Claiming you "pay attention" (and insinuating others don't) simply isn't an answer -- you'll need to substantiate your statements. Are there earlier relevant posts which address the question I asked you? If so, point them out. If not, post substance instead of speculation.

No I dont . I know how the game is played here . You dont know anything about the subject that many have investigated and uncovered . I suggest if you care you do your own research and tell me then how they are wrong . Im not wasting my time . I work for a living . start here if youd like tell me where she is wrong http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

 

[Joe]

What makes it communistic?
Are you against sustainability and environmental regulation in general, or just this particular way of doing it?

Well it works real good for our economy ?

Marx and Engels' conception of communism from the beginning was consistent with the sustainability. For example in 1843, Engels wrote in the Outlines of a Critique of Political Economy that communism would be "the reconciliation of mankind with nature and with itself". (MECW 3 p.424) Soon after that, Marx wrote in Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts that communism "restores man's intimate links to the land in a rational way, no longer mediated by serfdom, lordship, and an imbecile mystique of property. This is because the earth ceases to be an object of barter, and through free labour and free employment once again becomes authentic, personal property for man."

http://www.workersliberty.org/blogs/paulhampton/2010/08/05/sustainable-communism

 

[Chew]

start here if youd like tell me where she is wrong http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

From your link: "In a nutshell, the plan calls for governments to take control of all land use and not leave any of the decision making in the hands of private property owners."

Where is that iterated in the actual documentation of Agenda 21?

 

[cosmic]

No I dont . I know how the game is played here . You dont know anything about the subject that many have investigated and uncovered . I suggest if you care you do your own research and tell me then how they are wrong . Im not wasting my time . I work for a living . start here if youd like tell me where she is wrong http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

What I don't know here is why you think HUD regional planning grants have anything to do with the UN or Agenda 21. Your excuses aren't answers (obviously).

Clearly you have time to post these assertions -- but don't you have time to back them up? The only one here playing games is you.

 

[MikeC]

There is plenty of evidence and much of it is on this thread ....

Where?

 

[MikeC]

here is a small sample

HUD Sustainable Communities Regional Planning Grants

In June 2010, HUD opened the application process for the $100-million Sustainable Communities Regaional Planning Grant program. This program will support metropolitan and "multijurisdictional planning efforts that integrate housing, land use, economic and workforce development, transportation, and infrastructure investments."

Looks like normal local Govt planning.

What's the actual problem with that??

 

[David Fraser]

No I dont . I know how the game is played here . You dont know anything about the subject that many have investigated and uncovered . I suggest if you care you do your own research and tell me then how they are wrong . Im not wasting my time . I work for a living . start here if youd like tell me where she is wrong http://www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com/

I will ask one very simple question. When a city or council rejects a proposal put forth under Agenda21 or LA21 what have been the repercussions or have there been any sanctions by the UN?

 

[MikeC]

No I dont . I know how the game is played here . You dont know anything about the subject that many have investigated and uncovered . I suggest if you care you do your own research and tell me then how they are wrong ./

Hard to do when you don't bother actually identifying it all for "us"

 

[Joe]

Hard to do when you don't bother actually identifying it all for "us"

Sorry then cant help you . Its you guys that are supposed to convince us we are wrong and you fail all the time . Not Debunked . Debunked would be when we all agree .

 

[Pete Tar]

Sorry then cant help you . Its you guys that are supposed to convince us we are wrong and you fail all the time . Not Debunked . Debunked would be when we all agree .

There's no convincing extremists like you of anything.

 

[Joe]

There's no convincing extremists like you of anything.

Wow ! Now I am a extremist because we disagree ? Thats the way to win a debate ?

 

[MikeC]

Sorry then cant help you . Its you guys that are supposed to convince us we are wrong and you fail all the time . Not Debunked . Debunked would be when we all agree .

No - it is not when we all agree. It is when he evidence is debunked - agreeing isn't required - just like it doesn't matter whether you agree with physics, or evolution, or anything else factual.

Sorry about that - but now I understand that you are still bankrupt of actual evidence I have no problem restoring you to your rightful place on my ignore list - I guess it was too much to think that you might have actually changed some!

 

[MikeC]

Where?

What idiot disagrees with a one word question??!! lol

 

[David Fraser]

Sorry then cant help you . Its you guys that are supposed to convince us we are wrong and you fail all the time . Not Debunked . Debunked would be when we all agree .

Are you able to answer my question on sanctions the UN imposes?

Where does it say that private property will be siezed? Is it the whole document you reject? Should agriculture not be intensified while wider employment opportunities are made? Do you disagree that a gene bank for plants and animals should be strengthend to ensure diversity? Is it the sections that enable all stakeholders, i.e. men, women, children and indiginous peoples, an equal say on their environmental decision making? Is it better education for women and children? Is it ensuring poverty is eliminated?

Which parts are the conspiracy and you have issue with?

 

[Joe]

Are you able to answer my question on sanctions the UN imposes?

Where does it say that private property will be siezed? Is it the whole document you reject? Should agriculture not be intensified while wider employment opportunities are made? Do you disagree that a gene bank for plants and animals should be strengthend to ensure diversity? Is it the sections that enable all stakeholders, i.e. men, women, children and indiginous peoples, an equal say on their environmental decision making? Is it better education for women and children? Is it ensuring poverty is eliminated?

Which parts are the conspiracy and you have issue with?

The document is Socialism . Being your country embraces socialism more than our for now You wouldn't see a problem . What is indigenous people ? Someone that was there first or there longer ? There is no conspiracy here .

 

[Joe]

No - it is not when we all agree. It is when he evidence is debunked - agreeing isn't required - just like it doesn't matter whether you agree with physics, or evolution, or anything else factual.

Sorry about that - but now I understand that you are still bankrupt of actual evidence I have no problem restoring you to your rightful place on my ignore list - I guess it was too much to think that you might have actually changed some!

Go ahead Ignore me I could care less .

 

[David Fraser]

The document is Socialism . Being your country embraces socialism more than our for now You wouldn't see a problem . What is indigenous people ? Someone that was there first or there longer ? There is no conspiracy here .

Is that your answer? How are countries or councils sanctioned for not accepting Agenda 21? Can you show me where private property and rights are removed? Btw Socialism is all for free enterprise and ownership of private property.

Not once have you been able to show that Agenda21 is nothing but the unbinding/unenforceable document it is. After all it is about taking and encouraging participation, and by people voting against that is still happening. Damn the UN are insidious.

 

[Joe]

Is that your answer? How are countries or councils sanctioned for not accepting Agenda 21? Can you show me where private property and rights are removed? Btw Socialism is all for free enterprise and ownership of private property.

Not once have you been able to show that Agenda21 is nothing but the unbinding/unenforceable document it is. After all it is about taking and encouraging participation, and by people voting against that is still happening. Damn the UN are insidious.

It is a guidebook to the NWO aka world socialism . Socialism Sucks . Technically we have no private property rights and havent for years . You are not free to do what you want on or with your property . They can seize your property at any time .

 

[Pete Tar]

Now I am a extremist because we disagree ?

No, because of statements like these...

The document is Socialism . Being your country embraces socialism more than our for now You wouldn't see a problem .

Environmental Justice what a bunch of communist crap . De-industrialization of America .

And others over the years.

Any attempt to address an issue is seen as a communist plot to take power away from you, and you often say the problem is invented in the first place and ignore the research showing the issue. You shut out facts to assert a worldview, make flat assertions without any justification, and call others socialists or communists because they are trying to deal with issues that you have no concern for. You stick to the extreme position, not the balanced middle.

Maybe it's a matter of modifying your communication if you want to make these points clearer and seem less reactionary?

 

[Joe]

No, because of statements like these...





And others over the years.

Any attempt to address an issue is seen as a communist plot to take power away from you, and you often say the problem is invented in the first place and ignore the research showing the issue. You shut out facts to assert a worldview, make flat assertions without any justification, and call others socialists or communists because they are trying to deal with issues that you have no concern for. You stick to the extreme position, not the balanced middle.

Maybe it's a matter of modifying your communication if you want to make these points clearer and seem less reactionary?

Thats extremism ? that is fact and my opinion at the end . You wont know what communism is until your surrounded by it and its too late . You have no clue what extremism is do you ?

 

[Pete Tar]

It can vary in expression, I suppose the usual definition is ideology that calls for violent action against opponents, which is not what I'm accusing you of, just ideological extremism - being out of touch with the accepted position, and expressing a form of no compromise, and a lack of willingness to re-evaluate based on new information.
I think your sense of self is invested in identifying communism and socialism wherever you can and opposing it, but to the point where such judgement is just not accurate and has to sidestep/handwave away the actual issue trying to be addressed.

The term "extremism" is usually pejorative, but it is sometimes used in a purely descriptive sense, referring simply to a viewpoint that is inconsistent with existing norms, rather than implying that the extremist position constitutes a threat (to the society, government, mainstream morality, etc.).

 

[Joe]

It can vary in expression, I suppose the usual definition is ideology that calls for violent action against opponents, which is not what I'm accusing you of, just ideological extremism - being out of touch with the accepted position, and expressing a form of no compromise, and a lack of willingness to re-evaluate based on new information.
I think your sense of self is invested in identifying communism and socialism wherever you can and opposing it, but to the point where such judgement is just not accurate and has to sidestep/handwave away the actual issue trying to be addressed.

The term "extremism" is usually pejorative, but it is sometimes used in a purely descriptive sense, referring simply to a viewpoint that is inconsistent with existing norms, rather than implying that the extremist position constitutes a threat (to the society, government, mainstream morality, etc.).

being out of touch with the accepted position

what the status quo ? sounds collectivist . I think the fact that Iv been fighting against something that I understand completely and you and others dont or think its good for some reason . Maybe it fits your leftist ideology . Well it doesnt fit mine .http://dailycaller.com/2014/01/08/epa-overrides-congress-hands-over-town-to-indian-tribes/

 

[David Fraser]

It is a guidebook to the NWO aka world socialism . Socialism Sucks . Technically we have no private property rights and havent for years . You are not free to do what you want on or with your property . They can seize your property at any time .

Will you highlight and post the sections that remove property rights?

Again can you describe to me the sanctions (or even the appropriate legislation) that has happened for an authority NOT instituting a policy presented under Agenda21.

 

[Joe]

Will you highlight and post the sections that remove property rights?

Again can you describe to me the sanctions (or even the appropriate legislation) that has happened for an authority NOT instituting a policy presented under Agenda21.

Well locally its the carrot and stick approach . So I would say denying Grants would be the only form of sanctions . Listen to the first 2 minutes