1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Agenda 21 (Agenda for the 21st century) is non-binding UN resolution adopted by 178 countries at the 1992 Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) held in Rio de Janerio, Brazil. It's an action plan, or series of recommendations and goals aimed at promoting sustainable development, reducing poverty, world hunger, pollution, and climate change.

    While it is non-binding, many governments (both national and local) and institutions use agenda 21 as a useful set of goals and guidelines. At the local level, it's sometime referred to as Local Agenda 21, or LA21.

    In reality the actual effects of Agenda 21 in the US over the last 22 years seem to have been almost zero. Searching for mentions of it on the internet almost entirely results in mentions from conspiracy and conservative organizations.

    The largest "impact" seems to be that a variety of local governments have joined the ICLEI (International Council for Local and Environmental Initiatives) - an organization that includes Agenda 21 in it's goals, but really aimed at development in 3rd world countries. Any US municipality that joins ICLEI is really just affirming their environnemental credentials, and so is largely going to be those of a less conservative leaning. For example, in California, the liberal-leaning Los Angeles County is a member, but the more conservative Orange County immediately to the south is not.

    Concerns regarding Agenda 21 and the ICLEI range from extreme conspiracy theories:

    http://aircrap.org/alexander-bachman-agenda-21-depopulation-smart-meters/332267/

    Through the less extreme conspiracy theories of the Tea Party:

    http://myteapartychronicle.blogspot.com/2011/06/tea-party-onto-agenda-21.html

    And has made it all the way up to mainstream political discourse:

    http://floridaindependent.com/49425/newt-gingrich-agenda-21

    (Newt said the above as an example of things that crop up when he gets more involved with grass-roots discussions. He was tailoring it as an example for his audience. When he mentioned it, a murmur rose in the room, and when he said he would cut funding, then he got a round of applause).

    The problem is that Agenda 21 and the ICLEI have NOT ACTUALLY DONE ANYTHING. Newt is going to cut funding for something that really has no funding. Yes, there are programs that have goals that are similar to goals outlines in agenda 21, but those are programs that would exist anyway. Things like preventing pollution, suppling clean drinking water, and education in 3rd world countries.

    Here's one of the biggest offenses that Newt would be addressing:

    http://www.infowars.com/city-council-of-montana-city-illegally-enforces-un-agenda-21-on-taxpayers/

    Missoula, Montana is simply paying membership dues to the ICLEI. That's all.

    Of course Newt was talking about the federal funding. What would that be exactly? It's hard to find any examples. But let's start with some numbers for comparison. Currently the US pays 22% of the UN's budget. The US is already paying $1.2 billion per year to the United Nations. Another approximately $14 billion goes to the USAID, many of the goals of which are similar to Agenda 21.

    So what is the Federal Agenda 21 funding? There isn't any federal funding for Agenda 21. Everything I've been able to find so far has been federal programs that simply have some similar aspects to Agenda 21. For example - anything to do with energy conservation (like energy efficient light-bulbs, or solar power) will get lumped in with Agenda 21. Since there's no explicit funding, the conservatives are simply using it as an excuse to cut funding to programs they don't like.

    Additional Resources:

    Alternet: How Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories May Pose a Genuine Threat to Humanity - excellent article on the dangers of the "paranoid style" type fear of Agenda 21.

    Debunked: Executive Order #13575 - —Establishment of the White House Rural Council - a related sub-conspiracy-theory, where an toothless council for facilitating communication is raised to be an evil tool of the New World Order.


    [To be continued]
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  2. Steve

    Steve Senior Member

  3. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's interesting to look at the history of conspiracy theories, to see how they got started, and how they spread. It also helps give perspective on whatever the current incarnation of a theory is.

    In this case the conspiracy theory has a very well-defined start.

    Agenda 21 was adopted in 1992, at the 1998 Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED, also referred to as Eco 92) held in Rio de Janerio, Brazil. Around this time, the Schiller Institute issued a white paper titled "'Eco 92' Must Be Stopped". The earliest reference to this paper is a usenet post from June 21, 1992. Rather oddly this is the ONLY place I could find the full text of the paper. There were some references, but the original web pages are now only found on archive.org.

    Based on the text, it seems to have been written BEFORE the conference, in anticipation.

    Apparently one of the most important goals of the Eco 92 conference was, with all seriousness, "Paganism"

    The Schiller Institute is an organization of the LaRouche movement,

    Unless this paper simply reflects the prevailing conservative attitude at the time, I'd suggest it's pretty likely that it's at the root of the Agenda 21 conspiracy theory.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2013
  4. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    The Schiller paper describes it as a continuation of a deeper conspiracy - basically that of the "ecology" movement, plotting to take over the world under the guise of saving it.

  5. Steve

    Steve Senior Member

    Apparently the Republican Nation Committee doesn't agree with your assessment Mick:
    http://www.republicanassemblies.org/rnc-adopts-resolution-exposing-agenda-21/
    This could turn into a major political mistake once the debates start between Obama and whoever is nominated by the Republicans. It seems the Republicans are attacking anything that benefits the environment and becoming more and more anti-science.
  6. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I don't see anything official from the RNC. That seems to be a version of a resolution just introduced in Tennessee and Georgia (SR 730) state senates:

    http://www.capitol.tn.gov/Bills/107/Bill/HJR0587.pdf

    http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20112012/118946.pdf

    It's like a bizarre reanimation of the anti-communist paranoia of the 1950s.

    It's a poor political decision as there's nothing actually objectionable in Agenda 21, and it's not at all binding in the US. What they are complaining about is what they imagine is happening based on what they imagine it means.

    This line is very conspiracy theorist:

    How exactly are they going to do that?

    Newt mentioned Agenda 21. They are all just trying to appease their base without really understand what it is they are protesting against.

    Of course it's only a political mistake as long as the majority of people recognize it for the paranoia it really is.
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Steve

    Steve Senior Member

    The United States put out its own assessment in response to Agenda 21 under the Clinton administration back in the late 90s:
    http://www.un.org/esa/agenda21/natlinfo/countr/usa/eco.htm
    It's just a little alarming to me that something that's obviously conspiracy bunk is now making inroads and merging with the new right-wing tea-party block of the republican party. I'm definitely seeing signs that the majority of the people of the republican party won't view this as just paranoia but rather a real threat from the evil communist greens of the UN. It will be interesting to watch how this plays in the coming election year.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    Debunked? Where? I saw in another thread Steve sayin how "conspiracy theorists" like to pigeon hole people - but that's precisely what you folks are doing here.

    Opinions = debunking? Well I'll be! Pigs fly out of my ass, debunk that!
  9. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Pics or it didn't happen!

    But seriously, Agenda 21 is one of those conspiracy theories that's rather intangible. The debunking is unfortunately going to mostly consist of pointing out that there's no evidence to support the theory.

    I can't prove that Agenda 21 is not a communist conspiracy, because it very hard to prove the absence of anything. I can't prove that public libraries are not a communist conspiracy, however I can quite reasonably point out in both cases that there's little evidence that they are.

    And your pigs example is actually quite good. I can't prove that pigs don't fly out of your ass. However you could prove they do, very easily, with just one video.

    And I can debunk the pig theory by noting that:

    A) It's physically improbably
    B) You give no evidence, even though a simple video would suffice.
    C) If pigs were flying out your ass, then it is highly probably that there would be evidence.
    D) There's no evidence of it ever happening to anyone, ever.

    Of course some highly unusual pigs could secretly be flying out your (probably highly unusual) ass, and you could be covering it up, for some reason. So debunking has to stop short of absolute proof of absence.
    • Like Like x 2
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  10. Steve

    Steve Senior Member

    Just to show you how disruptive the new tea party Agenda 21 folks are take a look at what they are doing to public meetings up in the SF bay area. It's a great example what happens when a certain section of the population believe in a conspiracy theory to it's fullest and act upon it at these meetings.:
    http://ppjg.me/2012/02/06/agenda-21-attack-on-property-rights-california-one-bay-area/
    The videos are very long but very engrossing because of the boiling hostility and distrust these tea party types have toward their local government.. These people are stirring up a lot of trouble at many local government outreach meetings not only here in this country but all over the world. It is a fear of the comic book hyper competent overarching UN elites greens that can at a whim take away their property, cars and way of life that is the heart of this movement..
  11. Hotakyuu

    Hotakyuu New Member

    It looks like they are afraid of this Agenda 21 because of it's pro environment language. I'm reading it now and there are some things that would threaten the oil and gas tycoons, for instance, the effort to shift to clean energy. It also focuses on helping third world countries, which is something that does not interest big business.
    The whole "microcrip" thing is just fear mongering to scare people into believing we are in the "end times". That way, if people do not care about their future, the companies can do whatever they want because people think there is no tomorrow anyways.
    As fas as depopulation, I can debunk that by simply pointing out the high number anti abortion/contraception bills that are being pushed right now. It doesn't make sense to try and kill everyone if you're wanting every single fertilized egg to be born.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    And depopulation in general does not seem to be working very well.
  13. Hotakyuu

    Hotakyuu New Member

    Shhh don't give them any ideas!! :p
  14. Unregistered

    Unregistered Guest

    It's real it's taking peoples property and swallowing up farm land. It has been put in place by executive orders from all presidents since George HW Bush..... WAKE UP!
  15. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    Don't know enough about Agenda 21 to comment; however, it is interesting you acceptance an implied conspiracy of the oil and gas industry to manipulate the political debate but make light of the same possibility that environmentalist may be doing the same thing . . .
  16. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    What you call "conspiracy" is what most people call lobbying - which may or may no be all above board of course - and everyone does it.

    It isn't going to stop soon - people naturally express opinions that are favourable to their own position - expecting anything else is pretty stupid IMO.

    So to point out some obvious linkages and opponents doesn't seem like "implying" conspiracy at all to me - it seems like stating the bleedin' obvious!
  17. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    LoL!!!!! If you don't think lobbying is a conspiracy you need to wake up . . . When million dollar projects become billion dollar projects. . . Please?????
  18. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I fear a veer into semantics here.

    Lobbying in itself is not a conspiracy. It's a tool that's used by some of those who are engaging in conspiracies.

    Even the most benign activity involving more that one person includes conspiracy at some level. Charities "conspire" on how to fund-raise. Advertisers "conspire" on how to influence buying decision. Environmentalists "conspire" on how to save the spotted owl.

    But there's a big difference between

    A) Executives in the oil industry attempting to influence individual pieces of legislation, or get particular projects approved, so they can, as individuals, make more money.

    and

    B) A decades long plan that "usurps sovereignty, property rights, economic liberty, and basically hands over power, resources and land to unelected elitists… to control the populations of every country in the world.[...] a Marxist plan for global control of everything.. with the United Nations at the head of central planning."
  19. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1618683/pg1

    I simply disagree, you are cherry picking the definition to fit your own personal definition. . . The public accepts a wide range of complexity, participants, and relative importance as to what is accepted as a conspiracy. . . .
  20. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    George, I'm not sure what your point is. Maybe that you need a better word than "conspiracy", as it's too general?

    Why argue about the word. Why not just describe what is happening?
  21. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    In that case everything that is a co-operative effort by human beings is a conspiracy, and the term becomes meaningless in common use.
  22. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    No, the difference is the intent to form a group to gain unfair advantage or cooperation to conduct illegal, unethical and/or immoral goals . . . Lobbying may not be illegal but many times its purpose is to gain unfair advantage. . . .ergo it may fall within the definition of a conspiracy . . . Especially in its most egregious forms. . . .
  23. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    "Unethical and/or immoral" are somewhat subjective. But what about Agenda 21 do you consider to be unethical, and/or immoral? Or do you think there's a hidden motive?

    Really you could say ANYTHING has a hidden motive. That's why I try to focus on actual evidence.
  24. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    The point is you and your group think . . .seem to be using semantics to color activities you disagree with as evil or a conspiracy and other similar or identical activities you might agree with . . . as lobbying or a less pejorative connotation . . .
  25. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    I do not have enough knowledge of Agenda 21. . . .but if it is similar to "Bio-Diversity" a concept which seems to be code for removing or limiting access to private property or by limiting private property's use to make it almost useless or worthless to the rightful and legal owners . . . I feel it could be a a very sophisticated tool of a conspiracy to return private property to wilderness or natural conditions. . . .
  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Let's rephrase things then.

    You think that it's odd that I think the oil industry is taking actions aimed at increasing their profits, including deliberately misrepresenting the magnitude of the downward pressure on global oil prices of increase US production and distribution, yet I don't think that "Agenda 21 usurps sovereignty, property rights, economic liberty, and basically hands over power, resources and land to unelected elitists"

    I think the former because I see very clear evidence, motive, and opportunity. It's something you would naturally expect the oil industry to do, and something they have done many times before.

    I don't agree with the latter because there's no evidence of it happening, and no clear reason why someone would want to do that, or be able to.
  27. MikeC

    MikeC Senior Member

    Certainly I see lobbying as a less pejorative term - as long as it is legal and above board. I am sure there is dodgy lobbying which might well deserve the term "conspiracy" and there are many such cases known, and presumably many still secret.

    but looking at hte definitions of conspiracy from Dic.com:



    There is a heavy emphasis there on illegal, unlawful and evil.

    Def'n #5 however is broad enough to include every co-operative endeavour by humanity ever - and I find that a pretty useless definition!


    So to me when you say something is a conspiracy, yes, I immediately think you are talking about something that is illegal, unlawful, evil and generally undesirable and probably surreptitious.

    Why would you be bothered with conspiracies that are not these??
  28. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    You have evidence of price fixing by the oil companies?? . . . The only cooperation I can prove is OPEC setting production ceilings to guarantee a minimum price base for their oil. . . .what is your evidence? . . . You don't think there is other manipulation going on like maybe oil futures speculation and spot oil prices being artificially manipulated so someone could get a windfall . . .?
  29. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    At the risk of getting all lee-like, where did I say I thought they were price fixing? I just said

    Most of the action they take is lobbying. The misrepresentation is perhaps arguable, but I think that things like the following are pure spin, where on perspective is emphasized over another - where the goal is eventually to increase profits for Ken Cohen and his associates.

    [ex=http://www.exxonmobilperspectives.com/2012/01/27/what-am-i-paying-for-in-the-price-of-a-gallon-of-gasoline/]
    There are many global factors that affect the crude oil market. But adding more supplies of crude oil to the global marketplace can help put downward pressure on the price of a barrel of oil. The United States has abundant supplies of oil, from the deep-water regions of the Gulf of Mexico to the tight oil resources throughout North Dakota and Montana. Combined with Canada’s oil resources (one of the largest in the world), North America has enormous potential to add new reliable supplies to the market. And, the U.S. has one of the largest and most advanced refinery systems in the world.But first, the oil needs to get to market. There, we’ve often seen economics trumped by politics – even as the U.S. economy remains weak. The recent moratorium in the Gulf of Mexico, as well as the decision to deny the permit for theKeystone XL pipeline from Canada to U.S. refineries, are just two examples of U.S. political decisions that serve to keep supplies out of the market.The economics behind a gallon of gas are pretty straightforward. It’s the policies behind access to U.S. energy resources that are less certain – but critical to our energy future.​
    [/ex]

    Everything there is correct (except for the economics being simple, since as he notes, "there are many global factors that affect the crude oil market."), but is it an honest assessment of what's best for America, or a push for more oil revenue?
  30. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

    So do you think there is a "Conspiracy" to raise oil profit for the few or to push society into less oil dependent status. . . .?
  31. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    I think that many of the "the few" want to raise oil profits, and they take actions towards that end. They do not do these things entirely in isolation. They often talk to each other. This all rises past the lowest dictionary level of conspiracy, and in some cases it likely rises to the level of "an unlawful plan by two or more persons, hatched in secret".

    I think also there are many people who want society to be less oil dependent. They to take actions towards this goal. They often talk to each other. Some of them conspire at various dictionary levels.

    I think it's a mistake to talk about "a conspiracy", as the world is not comprise of "them" vs. "us", or even a few groups. The world, and the world's elites, are comprise of individuals. Individuals do "conspire". I conspire, you conspire, they conspire, we all conspire.

    So to ask if there's conspiracy to raise oil profits, or decrease the incidence of cancer, or sell more whiskey, of win a game of football, or have less dolphins caught in nets, or stay in power, - that's redundant. If there's anything in the world that people want, then it's a natural and expected consequence that they will take actions to further their goal, and they will talk with people who share that same goal (or mutually beneficial goals), and they will not tell those opposed to that goal what is happening.

    It's far more productive to talk about specific actions. What happened? Why might it have happened? Is it illegal? Is it immoral? Is there something people should know about? Is there something claimed that is wrong? Is there information missing?

    Why did Ken Cohen write that article? Was it because that's what he believes? Was it a natural part of his job as an industry avocate? Was it part of a decades long plan to turn North America into a wildlife refuge? I think it's just a company doing business, adding normal spin to further its goals.
  32. firepilot

    firepilot Senior Member

    Isnt that what every company does, they try to increase their profits? Thats what a company exists for, to generate more revenue than expenses. I do not know of any company trying to lessen their profit, or to not make a profit.

    And I disagree with the terminology of "the few". These are publicly traded companies, with shareholders. Apple, Google and Facebook probably have more profits and higher margins. Maybe Apples new iPad, is just a ploy to increase company profits for the few.
  33. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

  34. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member

  35. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's one thing to not trust everyone. It's one thing to be fearful.

    It's quite another thing to point blank refuse to, as an independent state, adopt any of the principles of of the Rio Declaration, or to have ANY contact with bodies tangentially related to it.

    [ex = http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2R/adopted/S.1507JUD.pdf]
    Fiftieth Legislature Judiciary
    Second Regular Session S.B. 1507
    COMMITTEE ON JUDICIARY
    SENATE AMENDMENTS TO S.B. 1507
    (Reference to printed bill)
    1 Strike everything after the enacting clause and insert:
    2 "Section 1. Rio declaration on environment and development;
    3 prohibition; definition
    4 A. The state of Arizona and all political subdivisions of this state
    5 shall not adopt or implement the creed, doctrine, principles or any tenet of
    6 the United Nations Rio Declaration on Environment and Development and the
    7 Statement of Principles for Sustainable Development adopted at the United
    8 Nations Conference on Environment and Development held in Rio de Janeiro,
    9 Brazil in June, 1992 or any other international law that contravenes the
    10 United States Constitution or the Constitution of Arizona.
    11 B. Since the United Nations has enlisted the support of numerous
    12 independent, shadow organizations to surreptitiously implement this agenda
    13 around the world, the state of Arizona and all political subdivisions are
    14 prohibited from implementing programs of, expending any sum of money for,
    15 being a member of, receiving funding from, contracting services from, or
    16 giving financial or other forms of aid to the International Council for Local
    17 Environmental Initiatives or any of its related or affiliated organizations
    18 including Countdown 2010, Local Action for Biodiversity, European Center for
    19 Nature Conservation, the International Union for Conservation of Nature, and
    20 the President's Council on Sustainable Development, enacted on July 19, 1993
    21 by Executive Order 12852.
    [/ex]



    Have you read the 27 Principles?
    http://www.un.org/documents/ga/conf151/aconf15126-1annex1.htm

    Here's the first three




    Principle 2 seems like the sort of think they would like (except perhaps the part about caring about their neighbors)

    I can see why you might not want to adopt them as part of the state constitution, but to refuse to implement anything that might be related to them? They way this law is worded it makes it illegal for Arizona to notify another state if there's a natural disaster in Arizona. It makes environmental impact studies illegal. It makes any kind of environmental legislation illegal.

    It says right in the bill that they think there's some kind of big conspiracy, so they are blindly lashing out, shutting down anything that resembles taking care of the environment. It's a thoughtless and backward law driven by ideology and fear.
  36. firepilot

    firepilot Senior Member

    I was reading an article about that too, that it can make energy efficiency programs illegal in Arizona too, or sustainability programs.
  37. George B

    George B Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member Staff Member


    Hmmmmm. . . seems China and many other countries are already not complying with the provisions of 'Principle 2' with their air pollution . . . so when does the UN get the authority to enforce voluntary compliance . . . 2016????
  38. haarp

    haarp New Member

    You say the people or organisations like the 'tea party' who are against Agenda 21, or the name ' Sustainable Development ' most commonly used by politicians, are simply lashing out due to fear or have conflicts of interest with business and could not possibly have no legitimate concern. But why must a sovereign country adopt U.N policies? Why can't the U.N be there just for advice? Why don't they promote the use of industrial Hemp which can create 100% biodegradable plastics, fuels, wood, paper, concrete and tens of thousands of other uses. You make it sound like blasphemy that a state dare reject U.N philosophy when in truth what this will do is shut down local businesses and strengthen the monopoly on fossil fuels and energy even more. So I think people have a right to be skeptical of the utopia Agenda 21 is promoting and it's got as much to do about the environment as it has with solving world hunger.

    If they truly cared about the environment they'd already be promoting real alternative energy sources, but it seems the U.N is just another bureaucratic organisation constantly wanting more power over Western countries. As said above, China doesn't seem to give a damn. Why isn't the U.N going after China like an attack dog? They view the West as more of a problem? How did they come to that conclusion?
  39. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's voluntary. People in the US are choosing to adopt the guidelines in a non-binding way. It's just a handy blueprint.

    In opposing the UN, you are not really opposing the UN, you are opposing the people in the US who think the UN is a good idea. It's really just a continuation of the debate of State rights over Federal rights. There are differing opinions there too. But here the UN has almost zero power over the US.

    Consider that international agreements have ALWAYS been signed, since the dawn of civilization. Some of the first things the US did was sign agreements with other countries.

    I think this attack on the UN is a distraction, deliberately fanned by people who are also opposed to any environmental restrictions.



    How do you come to that conclusion? I don't see why you'd say the UN thinks of the West as a bigger problem than China? Agenda 21 is a suggested agenda for ALL countries. The UN is quite active in on Cinese environmental issues.
  40. haarp

    haarp New Member

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