Debunked: 15 Minute Cities are a plot to confine people into regimented zones

[TheNZThrower]

According to the originator of the term, Franco-Colombian urban planner Carlos Moreno, the ''15 minute city'' is an idea that cities should be planned and designed in a manner so that all the basic amenities (e.g. shops, doctor's offices, schools etc...) are within a 15 minute walk or bike ride.


A recent claim that has been going around conspiratorial circles is the idea that the ''15 minute city'' concept that has been floated around urban planning circles is some nefarious plot to confine people into regimented zones where you are restricted from leaving. This video by Katie Hopkins claims that Oxford specifically is implementing such a plan:


She claims that (T = timestamp):

1. Oxford will be dividing the city into 6 zones where citizens will be approved travel within, with all amenities within 15 minutes of walking distance (T 0:06)
2. In order to travel from one zone to another, you have to go through a specially approved route that takes you outside and then back into Oxford (T 0:36)
3. This will be enforced via ''e-gates'' and number plate recognition cameras (T 1:12)
4. You have to apply for a permit to leave, and it only grants 100 inter-zone trips per year (T 1:27)
5. Violating the permit will result in a fine of 80-100 pounds (T 2:09)

As she does not provide any citations or references to prove any of her claims, we will have to analyse the original documents themselves from Oxfordshire Council. And when we do, we notice that what Hopkins is saying is a series of half truths at best if not outright lies.

What Hopkins is referring to are what's known as traffic filters; specific sections of a road which require a permit that allows you to traverse the road in question for 100 days per year, not 100 times, a permit for which buses, trucks, motorcycles etc... are exempt from. The primary purpose of those filters is to reduce congestion:
Oxfordshire Council page

Traffic filters are intended to reduce traffic levels in Oxford by targeting unnecessary journeys by cars. All other vehicles including taxis, buses, coaches, all vans, mopeds, motorbikes and HGVs can still pass through these traffic filters at all times.

The filters are not physical barriers but are time restrictions on six roads in the city intended to reduce the number of cars in Oxford...

The traffic filters cover very short lengths of road (just a few metres). Any vehicle can use the road outside the filter at any time without a permit.

Residents in Oxford and some areas just outside the city will be able to apply for a permit allowing them to drive through the traffic filters for up to 100 days each year.

Those filters will be enforced via number plate recognition cameras, not ''e-gates'', and they will be implemented on six roads outlined on the following map in the traffic filter brochure (found in aforementioned Oxfordshire Council page).

As outlined above, the filters are only in operation for part of the day, 7am-7pm. On two of them, it's only in effect during peak hours (7-9am, 3-6pm)

Outside of this period, you're free to use the roads as much as you want, no approval needed from anybody. You can also avoid the filter by diverting to other roads when they're in operation (e.g. the ring road on the map), no approval needed from anybody. By saying that the ring road route out and in to Oxford requires special approval, she implies that the permit applies to travel along the road when in reality it does not.

In addition to that, a quick glance at the page and the brochure shows that there is no mentioning of 15 minute zones or 15 minute cities. Which further lends credence to the aforementioned statements on the traffic filters being circumventable, and demonstrates the utter lack of credible evidence behind Hopkins' claims.

The only claim from Hopkins that is true is that you will be fined for crossing the filters without a permit, and even then, the fine is 70 pounds, which will be cut by half if paid immediately.
Oxfordshire Council page

When the filters are operating, cars without a permit driving through the filters will receive a fine of £70 (reduced to £35 if paid promptly).

The rest are distortions if not outright lies.
Oxfordshire & Oxford Council joint statement

Asides from congestion, the filters are also meant to improve the bus service reliability, and make cycling and walking more viable, and reduce air pollution:

Oxfordshire County Council, supported by Oxford City Council, is proposing to install traffic filters as a trial on six roads in Oxford. The trial is currently planned to begin in 2024...

The traffic filters work in exactly the same way as the existing traffic cameras in High Street, and are widely used in cities across the UK to manage congestion and support public transport...

Our aim is to reduce traffic levels and congestion, make the buses faster and more reliable, and make cycling and walking safer and more pleasant.

If I've missed out on any additional contextual info, please kindly let me know.

 

[FatPhil]

If I've missed out on any additional contextual info, please kindly let me know.

You didn't address her history as a source of reliable and unbiased information. Or the lack of it. She's notorious in the UK.

E.g.:

Hopkins later admitted that she was mistaken about the identity but did not apologise.[168] Monroe began legal action in January 2016,[169][170] and was awarded £24,000 in damages and £107,000 in legal costs in March 2017.
...
In December 2016, the Daily Mail and General Trust settled a libel case brought by the Mahmood family with £150,000 damages, plus legal costs, over two articles by Hopkins posted on the MailOnline website
...
In November 2017, Hopkins' former employers Mail Online apologised and paid "substantial damages" to teacher Jackie Teale, after Hopkins falsely accused Teale of taking her class to a Donald Trump protest in Westminster.
...
In October 2020, Hopkins issued an apology after she was sued by Finsbury Park Mosque for inaccurately linking it to a violent incident in May 2020.

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Hopkins

That was a very tight filter, examples where blame has been admitted or demonstrated, the article's packed full of other examples; she ticks all the boxes.

 

[deirdre]

As outlined above, the filters are only in operation for part of the day, 7am-7pm.

you call 7am-7pm 'part of the day'?

that said, it's only adding 10-20 carbon footprint miles to your trip (so obviously nothing to due with combatting climate change).
and i assume it would be a faster trip as you're not sitting in traffic? that doesnt sound so bad (although why "all vans" can use the roads makes little sense. what does "van" mean in the UK?)

 

[Ann K]

you call 7am-7pm 'part of the day'?

Yes; it's the time of most congestion due to commuters, therefore the time when it's most desirable to limit auto traffic. It allows busses, so it may encourage people to ride rather than drive. And if you read, a couple of them are only during rush hours. You can still visit granny on the other side of town in the evenings without a permit.

what does "van" mean in the UK?)

A delivery truck, not a passenger vehicle.

Please understand, many cities in the UK date from medieval times, or even the Roman era. Edinburgh is another where auto congestion is a severe problem. They were established by people whose most advanced travel option was a horse. They're not built with superhighways and huge parking lots.

 

[FatPhil]

Please understand, many cities in the UK date from medieval times, or even the Roman era. Edinburgh is another where auto congestion is a severe problem. They were established by people whose most advanced travel option was a horse. They're not built with superhighways and huge parking lots.

Oxford of course has its big car parks in the Park & Ride termini dotted around its ringroad. 5 buses an hour during peak hours and less than 10 minutes to get into the centre - way more convenient than dragging your own vehicle into town. I will admit that this new scheme does look like a heavy-handed attempt to disincentivise personal car use in town, but that's because that's exactly what it is, for the reasons you state. It doesn't look as heavy handed as Boris' Congestion Charge, but I've not been a car driver while living in either of those cities, so can't accurately compare. Car drivers will complain that they're being picked on, in the same way that smokers complained that they were being picked on - sorry, that's how disincentivisation works.

Just yesterday I discovered a third full set of recycling bins within a 10 minute walk of home - so this "15 minute cities" concept is lame - my part of this medieval city is a 5 minute city, max. I just wish they'd disincentivise car traffic more...

 

[Mendel]

Article:

At least 25,000 traffic filters similar to those found in low-traffic neighbourhoods already exist across the UK, research has shown, with campaigners saying it proves both the efficacy of such schemes and the futility of demands to scrap them.

Dozens have been built in cities over the last year by councils seeking to boost walking and cycling levels during the coronavirus pandemic, prompting a sometimes frenzied level of debate.

Low-traffic neighbourhoods (LTNs) use what are known as modal filters to stop through traffic on narrow residential streets. Using bollards, planters or camera-enforced signs at one end of a street, they allow full use for pedestrians and cyclists but make it access-only for motor traffic.

Councils say they are necessary to unclog roads increasingly used as rat runs, often by drivers directed to take circuitous backstreet routes by navigation apps. Government figures show traffic on such roads has increased significantly in recent years; in London it has doubled since 2008.

[...]

But the study, commissioned by the BikeIsBest campaign, used mapping data to identify 25,676 modal filters across the UK, including bollards, kerbs, planters and gates. The real number is likely to be significantly higher. Many are part of traffic-reduction schemes created over decades, now barely noticed.

[...]

"It should come as no surprise that people want less traffic where they live, that they want a place where the air is clean and their children can play in safety. What is baffling is the resistance to something which creates streets for people, improves our towns and cities and has been around for decade."

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/16/critics-of-uk-low-traffic-schemes-told-that-25000-filters-already-existed

Basically, the aim is to keep through traffic out of residential neighborhoods.

 

[FatPhil]

Oxford's apparently getting uppity. Not sure what to actually embed in this post, as the protest itself is an ideological dog's dinner, but here's the most pertinent image demonstrating the confusion about what 15 minute cities are - the distinction between having access to everything conveniently and being restricted from moving outside that range.

I got that image from here:
Source: https://imgur.com/gallery/jOUBDU1
, where there are several other "convenience = enslavement" conflations on banners/flyers, none of which particularly add much, and that post pointed me straight to
Source: https://twitter.com/davidrvetter/status/1626962297766744067
- which has even more examples of assorted boxes being ticked (anti-ID-cards, anti-globalism, climate denialism). Classic conspiracy clustering. A sample comment by the twitter thread starter:

The rally is, at heart, a climate denial protest. This man says carbon is good because we're made of carbon. "When they talk about reducing carbon they mean they want to reduce you."

-- https://nitter.kavin.rocks/davidrvetter/status/1626968803622936577#m

 

[FatPhil]

here's the most pertinent image demonstrating the confusion about what 15 minute cities are...

Oh, my - I genuinely hadn't noticed the 5G cell towers (Cells? Cells! There's a clue in the name!!!!!) and the contrails in that image when I selected it, I chose it because of the tethers.

 

[Mendel]

Oh, my - I genuinely hadn't noticed the 5G cell towers (Cells? Cells! There's a clue in the name!!!!!) and the contrails in that image when I selected it, I chose it because of the tethers.

that's how you know their primary purpose is to scare you

and, like cult, to rally around the stuff that scared them

and this huddling together works all the better precisely because nobody else takes it seriously

("the government" is actually lying to them less than whoever told them about chemtrails)

 

[FatPhil]

that's how you know their primary purpose is to scare you

and, like cult, to rally around the stuff that scared them

and this huddling together works all the better precisely because nobody else takes it seriously

(the government is lying to them less than whoever told them about chemtrails)

Apropos of very little, an old Oxford mate tells me that almost everywhere the marchers gathered were roads that had been turned into pedestrian areas. One wonders if they feel conflicted about how they've been enabled.

 

[Mendel]

Apropos of very little, an old Oxford mate tells me that almost everywhere the marchers gathered were roads that had been turned into pedestrian areas. One wonders if they feel conflicted about how they've been enabled.

a really good protest blocks traffic for hours and makes both the local news and the traffic report

seems they were foiled, not "enabled"

 

[deirdre]

Article:

'Neo-Nazi' group Patriotic Alternative joins anti-LTN march in Oxford

...
The group has been accused of 'hijacking' local issues to promote its own agenda

Source: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23331990.neo-nazi-group-patriotic-alternative-joins-anti-ltn-march-oxford/

 

[FatPhil]

Article:

'Neo-Nazi' group Patriotic Alternative joins anti-LTN march in Oxford

...
The group has been accused of 'hijacking' local issues to promote its own agenda

Source: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/23331990.neo-nazi-group-patriotic-alternative-joins-anti-ltn-march-oxford/

Precisely how does their presence dilute or cancel the rhetoric from everyone else at the rally?

"But there were even worse people there as well" is the *worst* attempt at whataboutism I've seen in a long time. Maybe a college footballer died on the same day too!

 

[Mendel]

"But there were even worse people there as well" is the *worst* attempt at whataboutism

i don't think that's it

the nazis are simply a "canary in a coal mine" because they've always stood for scaring people into giving them power. when they mobilize, you can predict it's going to be about populist scares.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

the distinction between having access to everything conveniently and being restricted from moving outside that range.

It really is a huge..."you don't know that this is already a thing and always has been." It is interesting because it isn't something you should be able to misunderstand because it is something that you already intuitively do. There's a phenomenon in personal travel that humans like to be 15 to 30 minutes away from everything they need on a day to day basis. Of course, this doesn't work out perfectly and people have long had commutes that were longer for whatever reason and there's outlier trips to uncommon destinations. The distance isn't actually important, because it has scaled with the speed of transportation. Commercial real estate developers already do this because they inherently understand it, which is why you can go to any American suburb and find McDonald's distributed at 15 minute intervals. I have a Masters in Transportation Policy and this was like the first thing you learn.

The only major thing here in the somewhat misnamed "15 minute cities" is that it is a conscious recompression to the pre-20th century distribution pattern, which is not feasible anyhow because of technological influences, contemporary personal preference, and consumer preference in retail selection. In the literature, they don't even claim that they could possibly meet all of a person's demands within a one mile circle anyhow. It is a contrived buzz term for "mixed commercial and residential," which is most of the modern urbanism is centered around (that is, vaguely defined buzz words that all sort of mean the same thing).

 

[Mythic Suns]

Katie Hopkins has a pretty bad reputation in the UK for basically being an absolute bitch. This reputation being caused by her expressing her rather controversial views. Thankfully her controversial views make her easy for most people to ignore but she's naturally praised by conspiracy theorists and the far right (not that they're necessarily mutual exclusives).

 

[deirdre]

"But there were even worse people there as well" is the *worst* attempt at whataboutism I've seen in a long time.

You're the one that went out of your way to imply all the protesters were anti-semites. I just gave some proof to back up the tweet you posted.

i dont know what your "college footballer" thing means.

 

[FatPhil]

You're the one that went out of your way to imply all the protesters were anti-semites.

I've not expressed such an opinion. I've said that when viewed /en masse/ they are "an ideological dog's dinner" - a complete hotchpotch. In that mix, yes, there are anti-semitic streaks, definitely.

I *went out of my way*, as I explained in my immediately following post, to show that they were pushing the narrative that walkable cities means being on tethers, nothing more.

I just gave some proof to back up the tweet you posted.

i dont know what your "college footballer" thing means.

In that case I misunderstood. Given your previous interaction with me on this thread was an argument-free "dislike" downmod, I had presumed you were taking a contrary stance to my criticism of the protest. And one contrary stance would be to try to find scapegoats that have ruined it for the majority of the good protesters. I was reacting as if that is what you were doing, but you've now clarified that that was not what you were doing, so I apologise for that misunderstanding.

 

[deirdre]

to show that they were pushing the narrative that walkable cities means being on tethers, nothing more.

"they" being the one anti-semite that the reporter talked to.

Given your previous interaction with me on this thread was an argument-free "dislike" downmod, I had presumed you were taking a contrary stance to my criticism of the protest. And one contrary stance would be to try to find scapegoats that have ruined it for the majority of the good protesters.

I was. Your post highlighted the few "extremists" to discredit the entire protest. That's like me highlighting the [many] murders the BLM extremists committed, to tarnish the good intentioned high schoolers protesting peacefully to support BLM.

I imagine there would be a shop owner, or a hundred, who would be upset by this road blocking idea, and a few moms pissed they have to give up the Daycare they love amongst the protester too. I wouldn't describe such people as "uppity" or "conspiracy theorists".

Don't get me wrong, i dont care what the UK does or doesnt do (our retail in AMerica would lose their minds over such policy, so i dont have to worry about it happening here). I just think it's slimely you try so hard to point out the bad apples to frown on everyone protesting against the policy.

 

[FatPhil]

"they" being the one anti-semite that the reporter talked to.

Nope, I see references to "freedom" on a large portion of the signs. The tether represents this lack of freedom.

I was. Your post highlighted the few "extremists" to discredit the entire protest.

I didn't highlight any extremists. For the third time - I explicitly said that there was a whole grab-bag of narratives being thrown around.

 

[deirdre]

The tether represents this lack of freedom

well no matter how you slice it, saying i cant drive down a certain street because i can't fit both my kids on a motorbike is taking away some of my freedom (and discriminating against me).

(i do agree its not the most intelligent point to bring up in this protest. denying business workers and customers is what i would highlight. why dont they divert the delivery drivers instead of the customers...its so weird. although making business move out would definitely decrease traffic. <which i would be fine with personally)

 

[Ann K]

That's like me highlighting the [many] murders the BLM extremists committed, to tarnish the good intentioned high schoolers protesting peacefully to support BLM.

Deirdre, you're going to need to either back that up or remove it. The only statistic I can find on that says that for 2020 (the year that BLM demise were taking place:

At least 11 Americans have been killed while participating in political demonstrations this year and another 14 have died in other incidents linked to political unrest, according to new data from a non-profit monitoring political unrest in the United States.

Nine of the people killed during protests were demonstrators taking part in Black Lives Matter protests. Two were conservatives killed after pro-Trump "patriot rallies". All but one were killed by fellow citizens.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled
Nine of the eleven were BLM members. It's already been well established that most of the severe damage done in BLM protests was done by white agitators. And yet here you are, spreading misinformation. Are you by any chance a FOX "news" viewer?

 

[Ann K]

I just think it's slimely you try so hard to point out the bad apples to frown on everyone protesting against the policy.

Exactly my point.

 

[Mendel]

Exactly my point.

I don't think it's right (or even respectful) to label all antisemites as nazis, or to think antisemitic elements in conspiracy theories are always linked to nazi ideology.

Article:

In the days following the 9/11 terrorist attacks on America, conspiracy theorists across the ideological spectrum dismissed the widely accepted version of events and instead crafted alternative narratives about the perpetrators, their motive, and other details about the attacks. Some of these conspiratorial claims directly implicated Jewish people and Israel in the attacks, in a continuation of centuries-old antisemitic tropes about Jews supposedly manipulating world events for their own benefit.

[...] Unfortunately, the antisemitism that ADL has documented for the past twenty years regarding 9/11 conspiracy theories can also be found in many of these other "truther" communities. Antisemites attribute mass shootings in the U.S., including Sandy Hook and El Paso, as well as the Charlie Hebdo attack in France, to the machinations of Jews or Zionists. Some conspiracy theorists draw direct lines between alleged Jewish responsibility for the 9/11 attacks and the 2008 financial crisis. There has been an outpouring of antisemitic conspiracy theories regarding the involvement of Jews and Israel in the Covid-19 pandemic and in the development of vaccines. Jews and Zionists have also been blamed for the January 6 insurrection at the Capitol.

Source: https://www.adl.org/resources/report/antisemitic-conspiracies-about-911-endure-20-years-later

Antisemitism in truther communities isn't a "one bad apple" thing, it's systematic.

(And I don't understand why shopowners would protest measures aimed at keeping through traffic out of residential areas. And many inner cities have been commercially vitalized decades ago by keeping cars out of them.)

 

[Mendel]

you're going to need to either back that up or remove it.

"the [many] murders the BLM extremists committed" is true for 2020 if [many] equates [four], out of 19 dead (via the list at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_controversies_during_the_George_Floyd_protests#Deaths ). The victims were a shop owner, an "all lives matter" woman who got into a street argument, and two far-right extremists. I expect the first two were actually manslaughter.

 

[deirdre]

the [many] murders the BLM extremists committed" is true for 2020

many for me means the 2 young black boy/young man killed at the summer of love thing. the old retired [black] police officer (you i think refer to as a shop owner), the man burned in the building, and the 8 year old [black]girl, Secoria, in Kenoshia. i forgot about the street argument gal and i wasnt aware of your two "far right extremists".

I'll take it from your wording you feel a "all lives matter" person or the 2 alleged "far right extremists" dont count since they are bad people so good thing they arent part of my "many".

 

[Mendel]

I'll take it from your wording

learn to read, please

 

[Mendel]

many for me means the 2 young black boy/young man killed at the summer of love thing. the old retired [black] police officer (you i think refer to as a shop owner), the man burned in the building, and the 8 year old [black]girl, Secoria, in Kenoshia.

ok, "many" for you means six.

The person who asphyxiated in the burned building was an accidental death, I'm not considering that a murder.

Two people died at the Seattle CHOP. The suspect in Lorenzo Anderson's killing is Marcel Long, I couldn't find out what actually happened.

Antonio Mays was shot while driving a SUV at the CHOP, and that looked like a (mistaken?) case of self-defense:

Article:

At 2:58 a.m., three minutes after the previous gunshots, tires screech and a white Jeep Cherokee traveling up East Pike Street turns left on 12th, headed toward the protest area.

Seattle police said that Mays and the injured 14-year-old were "presumably the occupants of the Jeep."

There's a scream, then a gunshot, then two more. People duck behind barricades and flee. The Jeep hits either a concrete barrier or a portable toilet at the edge of the protest area. Six more gunshots.

The Jeep backs up briefly, then drives forward again, and again hits the barrier and the toilet. Ten more gunshots.

Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/everybody-down-what-happened-at-the-chop-shooting-that-killed-a-teenager-and-led-to-the-areas-shutdown/%3famp=1

Police have killed black people for much less.

Secoriea Turner escaped my notice because she was not killed at a George Floyd protest, but at a Rayshard Brooks protest; she was killed by black gang members.

 

[Landru]

The discussion is about 15 minute cities. Please stay on topic.

 

[FatPhil]

well no matter how you slice it, saying i cant drive down a certain street because i can't fit both my kids on a motorbike is taking away some of my freedom (and discriminating against me).

How many of the Oxford streets are having cars specifically banned from them - I'd like to get an understanding of the magnitude of the problem you're focussing on?

What I've seen is the forbidding of residential streets as rat-runs. You can still get to your destination, but you'll need to take a more suitable preexisting route. You seem to be thinking that there's some kind of Universal Declaration of Car Drivers Rights that states that if there exists a paved route from A to B then a car may take that route. That's never been the case, there is no such freedom, you are not having it removed from you.

Note, this is only tangentially related to the subject of the thread, and the subject of the image I posted, namely that of having your movement restricted to a confining zone. Your persistent attempts to derail the thread are not useful in moving the discusssion forward.

 

[Landru]

Discussion of protests moved to https://www.metabunk.org/threads/protests-and-stuff.12872/

 

[John J.]

The "15-minute city" idea is intended to make neighbourhoods more pleasant to live in. One part of the Oxford plan involves dissuading non-residents, or delivery drivers not delivering to that neighbourhood, from using the already-congested roads in residential areas as 'rat-runs', i.e. through-routes, when alternative (albeit longer) routes which do not impact so much on residential areas exist. The aspiration is to have safer, healthier and cleaner residential areas with at least some services close-to-hand for residents, the planned means for doing so arguably impinge on the freedoms of some drivers to use their route of choice without additional cost- which isn't a trivial freedom in my view. However, as other posters have clarified, there is nothing in the Oxfordshire Council's proposal that in any other way supports Katie Hopkins' claims of a conspiracy to retain (detain?) the people of Oxford within specific zones. Notwithstanding the blatant illegality of such a plan under the laws of England and Wales, or the fact that Oxfordshire County Council utterly lacks the ability to bring such a plan about:

Oxfordshire County Council https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/ doesn't control a police force or any 'hard' security assets.
I don't know if County Councils in England retain any direct responsibility for pest control or animal culling, but other than people in such roles it's a safe bet Oxfordshire County Council doesn't own a single firearm (outside of museums), taser or baton, nor does it employ or direct anyone who carries a firearm, taser, baton or any other form of weaponry which might be considered necessary if the populace were to be 'corralled'.

 

[deirdre]

Oxfordshire County Council https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/ doesn't control a police force or any 'hard' security assets.
I don't know if County Councils in England retain any direct responsibility for pest control or animal culling, but other than people in such roles it's a safe bet Oxfordshire County Council doesn't own a single firearm (outside of museums), taser or baton, nor does it employ or direct anyone who carries a firearm, taser, baton or any other form of weaponry which might be considered necessary if the populace were to be 'corralled'.

what? the police enforce the laws. IF they made a law about 15 min cities (which i agree this road thing does not) then that law would be enforced. Assuming the UK works somewhat similarly to America.

 

[John J.]

what? the police enforce the laws. IF they made a law about 15 min cities (which i agree this road thing does not) then that law would be enforced. Assuming the UK works somewhat similarly to America.

The police in Oxfordshire are part of Thames Valley Police. They are not controlled, or directed by Oxfordshire County Council.
A law restricting people's liberties in the way mooted by Katie Hopkins would require primary legislation from Parliament.
Oxfordshire County Council has no authority to impede on people's liberties (other than in ways outlined in various Local Government acts) or to override or ignore current legislation.

The leader of Oxford County Council can't 'phone the Chief Constable of Thames Valley Police requesting that they barricade areas of Oxford without legal cause. The County Council cannot enact legislation to manufacture such a cause. We do have rule of law.

 

[aconspiracytheorist]

Not sure how you can debunk a theory on something being the thin end of the wedge. I suppose you could argue that gradualism isn't used by governments to implement unpopular policies.

The policy is obviously designed to confine movement of people into regimented zones. That's the point of the policy. It places everything a person would need within those zones. Which is then used to justify penalizing them for as superfluous travel. The key point of the policy is that by placing everything needed within 15 minutes of someone, they would never need to travel more than 15 minutes from where they lived.

If I was born yesterday i'd probably support the policy.

 

[Ann K]

The policy is obviously designed to confine movement of people into regimented zones. That's the point of the policy. It places everything a person would need within those zones. Which is then used to justify penalizing them for as superfluous travel.

No, the policy is designed to reduce rush hour traffic through what are described as mostly residential neighborhoods. There is nothing basically wrong with the idea of each neighborhood having essential services close by, but when city traffic becomes gridlock, this is a measure that hopes to alleviate the problem.

Do you commute to work, where you are expected to arrive at a fixed time? Then you may have encountered the problem yourself. Where I live there are designated express lanes on the interstate for people who want to bypass a number of exits. Other places have special HOV lanes (high occupancy lanes) to encourage carpooling, and drivers who travel alone can be fined for using those lanes. Oxford is trying a different approach, that's all.

 

[deirdre]

The policy is obviously designed to confine movement of people into regimented zones. That's the point of the policy.

It's Oxford (ie ultra liberal). You are certainly free to move to another town. I think their goal is to drive the problem people out and have a town full of people who think like them. Which is fine, in my opinion. Besides i read they get 7 million tourists a year. Tourist towns suck to live in.

 

[Mendel]

The policy is obviously designed to confine movement of people into regimented zones. That's the point of the policy. It places everything a person would need within those zones. Which is then used to justify penalizing them for as superfluous travel. The key point of the policy is that by placing everything needed within 15 minutes of someone, they would never need to travel more than 15 minutes from where they lived.

a) is there actually such a policy?
b) is the policy designed to ever be anything but voluntary?

that's actually a common theme, like when someone said, we wang ghe world population to decrease, it's meant "we want to make it attractive to people to procreate less", anx conspuracy theorists run with the scare version, "they want to kill half of us off".

By this logic, every time the council builds a new bike path, we ought to be afraid that in 10 years all cars must be scrapped and only bike travel is permitted. And the ONLY evidence for this is the new bike path, of which the council hopes it'll entice more people to start cycling, because that's good for the environment and helps unclog the roads.

Ask for the evidence! Do not let made-up claims scare you!

 

[Mythic Suns]

a) is there actually such a policy?
b) is the policy designed to ever be anything but voluntary?

that's actually a common theme, like when someone said, we wang ghe world population to decrease, it's meant "we want to make it attractive to people to procreate less", anx conspuracy theorists run with the scare version, "they want to kill half of us off".

By this logic, every time the council builds a new bike path, we ought to be afraid that in 10 years all cars must be scrapped and only bike travel is permitted. And the ONLY evidence for this is the new bike path, of which the council hopes it'll entice more people to start cycling, because that's good for the environment and helps unclog the roads.

Ask for the evidence! Do not let made-up claims scare you!

Basically, while a slippery slope isn't a logical fallacy in itself, it can be used as such.

 

[Mendel]

Basically, while a slippery slope isn't a logical fallacy in itself, it can be used as such.

I've never seen slippery slope used legitimately where the first step on the slope wasn't already objectionable.

But more than that fallacy, this is about a complete lack of evidence, which is why this is a conspiracy theory.