You missed the point, diametrically (do they pay you extra for that?). The point is, you've been wondering about the wrong thing, obviously.
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You missed the point, diametrically (do they pay you extra for that?). The point is, you've been wondering about the wrong thing, obviously.
SR1419
Senior Member.
Interesting take but not entirely buying it- No emotion needed to be manipulated to go into Afghanistan- the emotions were front and center and the country wanted someone to pay and the incursion into the country was seen as a worthy defensive purpose.
Iraq WAS manipulation- pure and simple- but once the hurly burly began the UN inspectors were long gone and the face saving of a nice stash of WMDs would been quite a coup for BushCo and making their "mission accomplished" banner all that more palatable...instead of a laughing stock.
Seems to me all the denialists need is to provide five similar flight manifests, showing, what? 30% passengers in the military/military contractors area of employment and it's game over. But they can't. I thought you were all about 'evidence' and not opinion? All I see to the request is opinion.
Looks sus to me - prove with data it's all just lovely and normal, as you keep saying
Looks sus to me - prove with data it's all just lovely and normal, as you keep saying
SR1419
Senior Member.
Indeed- I showed a flight manifest with 40% of the passengers in a similar field to a destination where that field is a predominant industry.
Thats evidence.
You are the one claiming it's suspicious lee, so why can't you provide evidence that it is so?
And please lose the snarky comments. Play nice, or don't play.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article34351.htm
Dr Alani has visited Japan where she met with Japanese doctors who study birth defect rates they believe related to radiation from the US nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
She was told birth defect incidence rates there are between one and two per cent. Alani's log of cases of birth defects amounts to a rate of 14.7 per cent of all babies born in Fallujah, more than 14 times the rate in the effected areas of Japan.In March 2013, Dr Alani informed Al Jazeera that the incident rates of congenital malformations remained around 14 percent.As staggering as these statistics are, Dr Alani points to the same problem of under-reporting that Dr Haddad mentioned, and said that the crisis is even worse than these statistics indicate."We have no system to register all of them, so we have so many cases we are missing," she said. "I think I only know of 40-50 percent of the cases because so many families have their babies at home and we never know of these, and other clinics are not registering them either."Additionally, Dr Alani remains the only person in Fallujah registering cases, and reported that she was still seeing the same severe defects."We have so many cases of babies with multiple system defects in one baby," she explained. "Multiple abnormalities in one baby. For example, we just had one baby with central nervous system problems, skeletal defects, and heart abnormalities. This is common in Fallujah today."
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I didn't realise it was a game
You're claiming it's not suspicious, where's your evidence? It's just opinion, ain't it?
I'm claiming that there's no evidence that it's suspicious. My evidence is your lack of evidence.
So you can only supply opinion.
Grieves
Senior Member
That's the thing, though. Instead of a travesty universally recognized as warranting he and members of his administration be tried as war-criminals, it's a laughing stock, warranting frequent jabs from John Stewart. 'Hohoho, silly old Bush and his policy of unjustified murder, what a lovable dumb-ass.' Shouldn't the guy be in jail?
My evidence is your lack of evidence. An impasse.
Court first, then jail (preferably a for-profit corporate jail - I'm sure he'd approve - one that puts him to work for corporate profit at public cost, the human farming method; the American Dream in a nutshell). That would make at least some sense... but he should have plenty company
Things are not suspicious by default. Otherwise every single thing in existence would be suspicious. My cat would be suspicious.
Claim? Where's the data?
One or other of my cats is always suspicious, I think they take it in turns - could be a catspiracy?!!
Straw poll - well?
SR1419
Senior Member.
Possibly- all the more reason why "finding" some WMDs would have been beneficial to his "case" and legacy.
But don't confuse ridicule with affection.
No one I know found him "lovable".
Funny thing is, though, it's exactly the same question you lot ask about a non-available source. But only now you admit there is an impediment to getting at the data when those who have it don't want you to have it too? In case it compromises their lies, or what?
What does this have to do with the topic? I think most people are aware that there a wide range of estimates for the Iraqi civilian death toll, up to over a million. Depends how you count them.
Does that make the passenger list more suspicious?
JRBids
Senior Member.
The evidence was that many people are employed in those industries in that area, and people who travelling to and from DC on a Tues morning during the school year would probably be traveling for business.
What evidence do you have that your suspicions are true?
Jazzy
Closed Account
Is nothing to do with the thread.
Lots. The Pentagon was a reinforced concrete structure, very difficult to penetrate. The floors were stronger than the walls, which had window openings. The airframe would not have penetrated a single r/c floor, and the explosion would have blown off fifty yards of ROOF above the top floor. The planner of this was an engineer.
Also, the aircraft had no dive brakes and would not have finished the maneuver before it disintegrated. You aren't an engineer.
Not when he was responsible for the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center. It's seems odd that you never acknowledge this.
You're incorrect in that this question is irrelevant.
My country is Spain. You are responsible for the actions of your country's leadership now you have achieved maturity.
You conspire to miss it. Usama Bin Laden quite clearly stipulated in advance his objections to western military and nuclear support of Israel.
It is the motive for 9-11. It sticks out so much further than your average room elephant.
Means, Motive, Opportunity.
Grieves
Senior Member
I addressed a statement made within the thread. That's typically how conversations work.
And what in the world does that have to do with 'the harshest possible military response' against Iraq and Iran? Why was that part of the rhetoric as of noon on sept. 11th? Sure, OBL would definitely come to mind, but the next decade of warfare was already being sold to the public as of roughly three hours after the attack.
This guy, Paul Bremer, is a conspicuous figure (if not suspicious), who went on to become occupation governor in Iraq. At the time he was working for Marsh & McLennan, a major insurance broker, in what I believe was the North tower. He almost certainly would have been there and died in the crash had the timing worked out a little differently. Unquestionably a great many of his co-workers and colleagues did. Besides the fact that, while 'remaining open to all the possibilities' (but openly considering only a few particular ones), he basically lists the targets of the next ten years of war, I find his in-passing mention of how his flight was diverted from New York a little strange. It's not entirely fair to judge a persons behavior surrounding such an event, but to not even mention or offer well-wishes to his colleagues still unaccounted for/their families seems odd to me. I'd understand it if he seemed emotionally distraught, but he doesn't.
Also, this entire subject is completely unrelated to the thread. None the less I responded, as you brought it up.
lol, right, I'll go tell that to Harper the next time I'm in Ottawa, and see how long it takes for the RCMP to tazer my testicles. I vote. I even engage in the occasional protest action, even though our Government is pushing to class many protest actions as acts of 'Eco-terrorism'. Pardon me for not being radical enough for your standards.
Errrrr, I do....? Who am I conspiring with, Jazzy...? New thread time: 'Are 'Truther's' engaged in a Conspiracy to Miss the Point?' I bet that's one CT that this website will be all to eager to confirm as factual rather than debunk.
Right. Motive in regards to the official account is of grave significance. Motive in regards to the the CT's are irrelevant. And why's that? Because the official account is undeniable fact, while the conspiracy theories are pure drivel with absolutely no basis in reality whatsoever. And why's that? Because an underfunded, extremely limited investigation, significant aspects of which were described by those participating as being 'set up to fail', says so.
Jazzy
Closed Account
Yes. but it still isn't relevant.
You are talking about events after this flight. They hold no relevance to the argument that this flight had some sort of pre-determined passenger list..
Isn't relevant.
Now you are getting the idea. OBL stated what he would do. He tried once and failed. He tried a second time and succeeded. That wasn't difficult, was it?
Threads frequently go 'off-topic', it's the natural way of any conversation when you don't have someone else dictating the terms.
You've made claims its not suspicious but provided no data, just opinion. The evidence is all in the OP. There's a list, there's a large portion of passengers in what could well be seen as positions related to the events of the day. That's data. If you're going to refute that it might be unusual then let's see your data supporting your assertion.
I'm not interested in your opinion, just the data - because that's all that's required to prove what you're saying. Saying - 'lots of people in those fields work or live nearby' - doesn't equal data.
Yes it does. Plenty of evidence in the thread has been given that DC and LA are hubs of the Aerospace industry. That's data. The Pentagon is the largest single building employer in that area, that's also data.
lotek
Active Member
we dont have to provide data that it isnt suspicious... we are not making a claim. you have to provide data that it is, since that is the claim.. and we refute it. thats how arguments work.... do i really need to link to materials on fallacy/argument/sophistry? im beginning to think you are a troll from 4chan oswald.
Data? Nope. It's apochryphal. The Pentagon is the largest occult symbol in the area, does that support the idea that the plane should be full of occultists? By your 'data', yes.
It's not data.
lotek
Active Member
woah hey now it was grieve who said it was an odd flight list, not mick or any of us....
and your logic is flawed, its the location, not the target. if the plane flew out of a town where 85% of the business conducted was occult, and was a multi trillion dollar industry, then your logic would apply and one would expect the place to be full of occult figures... do you even logic bro?
sophist...
and your logic is flawed, its the location, not the target. if the plane flew out of a town where 85% of the business conducted was occult, and was a multi trillion dollar industry, then your logic would apply and one would expect the place to be full of occult figures... do you even logic bro?
sophist...
We? Is that the royal 'we'?
Aren't we?
Originally Posted by Mick
I'm claiming that there's no evidence that it's suspicious.
Easy to prove. Why don't you?
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23,000 People work at the Pentagon
Source: http://pentagontours.osd.mil/facts.html
Dulles Airport, where flight 77 departed, is 22 miles from the Pentagon
That's data.
Really? Where's your evidence?
pen·ta·cle (pn
t
-k
And that's a mainstream google search. I suggest you search a bit further.
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What about your argument? Logic; Claims; The Pentagon; all that jazz?
But just not data relating to the topic - you're off-topic. What we're looking at is number of people on a flight with certain connections. Show us 5 flight manifests at similar times with similar complement and we'll be all happy - yes, 'we'*. It's that easy.
*I speak only for myself and all my other personalities.
Well since that data is not available, we have to use less direct data, like the proximity of the Pentagon to the airport, and the number of people who work there.
What data do you base your suspicion on?
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