Debunked: ‘White Guilt’ Bracelets - Government wants you to wear them?

[Mick West]

From Infowars:
http://www.infowars.com/govt-wants-volunteers-to-wear-white-guilt-bracelets/

Gov’t Wants Volunteers to Wear ‘White Guilt’ Bracelets
Aaron Dykes Infowars.com March 13, 2013
Has political-correctness gone too far?
In Wisconsin, volunteers in AmeriCorps are encouraged to cope with their “white privilege” by wearing a white bracelet, while reminding themselves to examine their status in society and talking with ‘friends of color’ to encourage their transformation.

Content from External Source

(based on a somewhat less intense story from cnsnews)



No according to the Wisconsin DPI and VISTA:

https://sites.google.com/a/dpi.wi.gov/dpi-vista-project/resources-1/power-and-privilege-resources

It is unfortunate that this agency has to respond to misconceptions and misinformation being spread by an out-of-state entity that has no connection with the work being done by the public schools in Wisconsin.

First and foremost, and to be absolutely clear, no DPI official has asked, requested, or encouraged any school district, educator, or student to wear any wristband, and none of our VISTA volunteers have had any children put on any wristbands. To be clear, no Wisconsin students were given white wristbands.


The Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction participates in the federal Corporation for National and Community Service/AmeriCorps VISTA program, and can place up to seventeen VISTA volunteers in local community projects across the state that have specifically requested hosting a VISTA volunteer.

As part of the requirement allowing the DPI to participate in the AmeriCorps VISTA program, the DPI must:

Arrange and be responsible for providing in-depth on-site orientation and training for all incoming AmeriCorps VISTA members at the beginning of their service.
Assist in the provision of pre-service, and in-service training (online or face-to-face), as specified in the Project Application.
The AmeriCorps VISTA volunteers are serving in schools and communities that are culturally and racially diverse. Wisconsin schools are becoming increasingly diverse, and therefore multiple opportunities for training are provided to the VISTA volunteers to help them better serve the schools, and communities in which they placed. This year’s volunteers have been offered training many topics, including: grant writing, community engagement, conflict resolution, volunteer management, family-school-community partnerships, and race/ethnicity, among others.

The material about the white wristbands was not covered/discussed in a training VISTA volunteers received—training which was conducted by an outside (non-DPI) group. At the end of a training session, a packet of ‘additional resources’ was offered by the trainers as the volunteers left. Subsequently, that entire resource packet was posted to the VISTA web site.

Again, no DPI official, or any VISTA volunteer has used, requested, or encouraged anyone in any school to use the wristbands as ‘reported’ and shared by external groups that thrive on spreading rumors and misinformation. The bottom-line is that there is no wristband program in Wisconsin.

Content from External Source

So it was just one document, from a third party, in a packet of "additional resources" that was handed out and that was not even used in the session. Somehow this get bumped up to the level of a government mandate by Infowars. Unfortunately it's probably going to be doing the rounds on Facebook now for the next ten years.

 

[Unregistered]

the document was up on the vista website and when they got questioned about it they took it down, but of vista is not responsible for a document on their site

 

[Joe]

[h=1]Public School Teaches “White Privilege” Class http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/public-school-teaches-white-privilege-class.html[/h]

 

[Joe]

You can say that Info wars is wrong but it is going on in Wisconsin . http://newsone.com/2237396/unfair-campaign-psa/ Notice newsone says For Black America ? Hmm sounds racist to me ?

 

[Joe]

White privilege checklist
This list is based on Peggy McIntosh’s article on white privilege. These dynamics
are but a few examples of the privilege which white people classes have.
On a daily basis as white person…
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure renting or purchasing housing in an area
which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to
me.
4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be
'followed or harassed.
5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of
my race widely represented.
6. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that
people of my color made it what it is.
7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the
existence of their race.
8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented,
into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a
hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work
against the appearance of financial reliability.
11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like
them.
12. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having
people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group. 16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who
constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and
behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
18. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge," I will be facing a
person of my race.
19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my
race.
20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and
children's magazines featuring people of my race.
21. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat
tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, out numbered, unheard, held at a distance, or
feared.
22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the
job suspect that I got it because of race.
23. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot
get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or
situation whether it has racial overtones.
26. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in flesh color and have them more or less
match my skin.

 

[Cairenn]

What is WRONG with getting us white folks to LOOK at things from the other side? I don't see a problem with it. I try to look at most things from the other side, to me, an intelligent person does that

 

[Joe]

What is WRONG with getting us white folks to LOOK at things from the other side? I don't see a problem with it. I try to look at most things from the other side, to me, an intelligent person does that

Why should we ? Iv never owned a slave have you ? I treat all people the same regardless of race . I look at myself as a American not white . When we divide ourselves by our skin color we divide ourselves into groups . why are whites all grouped together as one ? A person from Norway looks much different the a person from southern Italy . yet in America they are considered white ? Most Hispanics are considered white being that Spain is in Europe. If I were to go compete for a job with a African american and we both had the same qualifications Affirmative action would give him a advantage and has for years even if he was less qualified . Seems whites are at a disadvantage . It has more to due with Income then color . Maybe wealth privilege ? Its not fair some are born into wealthy families while some are born to poor families . Its wrong its dividing us and it is Critical Race Theory . Its reverse racism .

 

[Cairenn]

You see it from your side. If that black person has a 'black name' say Kyanda, they will not get as many interviews (some 'reg' names have some of the same problem, like Harold and Gertrude). There are a LOT of little things, like making a complaint in person---a black person is often afraid to.

My hubby is black and I can see the difference when I walk up at times or when he does.

I will agree that poor whites are also disadvantaged, but there are a lot of little things. White home ownership, has allowed more white kids to go to college and to start businesses.

I was in HS when my school became integrated, the black kids found the classes to be so far ahead of them. Many of the black parents may have had a HS diploma, but it was NOT equal to the a white diploma from the same city. One cannot wave a wand and eliminate generations of prejudice. Some will be able to advance, my hubby and his sister are good examples of that, thanks to Catholic school.

Many black kids will have had to work much harder to get the same qualifications. You know, they might be better employee.

Hispanics may be 'white' but no one treats them that way, the are too dark. Most likely I have some Native American blood in me, I tan well. I am short, and chubby, and I have long brown hair. When I have a tan, many folks assume I am Hispanic---having a cop pull you over and ask for your DL in Spanish--why was I pulled over--I hit a dip at too fast a speed and I had STUFF in my car, and I was out after midnight. No ticket given. I was just harassed

 

[Joe]

I just wish census job applications or anything shouldn't have a column for race . Other then human race . Im, half Irish . then German(surname) . French Canadian part native American .Scottish and whatever else depends on who raided our village years ago . Im a Human America . They also thought I was Mexican when I lived In California because I was dark skinned . Too much beach not enough school ? The past is the past we can change it only need to make sure it never repeats itself .

 

[Unregistered]

The problem is most people don't know that racism is not racist. It's hatred of someone for them being different but the problem with this is that minorities hate whites and want to punish them for sins of a past generation if a father murders someone should his grandchildren be forced to pay for his crime? Also when the civil rights movement came who cast the vote to give the African American the rights he now has? White people saw it was wrong and fixed by voting something the African Americans couldn't do till the vote on civil rights was past we need to thank them for seeing the error and forgive them cause they fixed it. I don't see what white people have to be guilty for a white man freed the slaves and white men gave civil rights no one forced them they saw it was wrong and fixed it. White people should be proud of what (they) have done and that is given freedom to the other minorities.

 

[JonJson]

I just wish census job applications or anything shouldn't have a column for race . Other then human race . Im, half Irish . then German(surname) . French Canadian part native American .Scottish and whatever else depends on who raided our village years ago . Im a Human America . They also thought I was Mexican when I lived In California because I was dark skinned . Too much beach not enough school ? The past is the past we can change it only need to make sure it never repeats itself .

I had a friend who used to ride the train with me to work tell me that he had been experienced discrimination because of his race in the past and all of the regulars on the train looked at him trying to make sense of what he was saying. None of us could see how it was possible. To all of us he looked like an average white guy, a bit of a hippie but just an average guy. He said that he was from Texas and he was of Native American descent. All of us were surprised that anyone would have been able to tell that by looking at him and even more surprised that anyone would treat him differently because of it. He said that he had been denied jobs and housing because of it he also said that he had never experienced that sort of discrimination since he had moved to Maryland. I think discrimination isn't universal around the country and so attempts to label people with a form of white guilt is ridiculous. My family is largely a family of immigrants from the turn of the twentieth century and they experienced their own share of discrimination for looking and speaking differently than the people of their newly adopted country the USA. Who are we going to label with guilt for that? I am with you when you say "the past is the past". Let's all just move on and be better from here.

 

[Cairenn]

I am going to suggest that any one that is interested, please take this test

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/racframe.htm

My hubby is black and I don't think that I have a strong racial bias. But... and that is the problem. I want to see if I can get my hubby to take it and to share his results

 

[Joe]

I am going to suggest that any one that is interested, please take this test

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/racframe.htm

My hubby is black and I don't think that I have a strong racial bias. But... and that is the problem. I want to see if I can get my hubby to take it and to share his results

after seeing The Southern Poverty Law Center as contributor was enough for me to laugh . Social justice organizations ? Nuff Said . what a bunch of crap . I think we all know how we feel inside about race gender ect . Why bother taking a test ? Everyone has some sort of bias whether or not they'd admit it is another story . Its human nature .

 

[Cairenn]

We do? Some sort of bias, yes, but to what extent is the question. If someone is hiring folks and they have a strong racial or gender bias that will effect how they 'see' possible employees. Do you realize you just made an excellent case for affirmative action?

 

[Joe]

We do? Some sort of bias, yes, but to what extent is the question. If someone is hiring folks and they have a strong racial or gender bias that will effect how they 'see' possible employees. Do you realize you just made an excellent case for affirmative action?

No not at all . Iv had long hair all my life and always felt others bias toward me . People treat you different at first glance until they get to know you . So if thats the case affirmative action could be used by everyone . why cant i be in The NBA ? Just because I suck at basketball doesnt give them the right to deny me a career in the NBA ? Affirmative action is racism . Its up to the employer who they want to hire . Would you want someone to hire you if they were forced to because of the way you looked or your sex ? Would I want to work for someone who dislikes me because of the way I look ? Seems you have a bias toward right wingers ? how is that any different ? I have one towards lefties but that doesn't mean I don't have friends or relatives that are Left wingers .

 

[Joe]

The Southern Poverty Law Center was almost responsible for this Mass Killing . When you label someone as a hate group you make them a target . http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/06/justice/dc-family-research-council-shooting

 

[RolandD]

I am going to suggest that any one that is interested, please take this test

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/racframe.htm

My hubby is black and I don't think that I have a strong racial bias. But... and that is the problem. I want to see if I can get my hubby to take it and to share his results

Little to no preference was my result.

 

[JRBids]

White privilege checklist
This list is based on Peggy McIntosh’s article on white privilege. These dynamics
are but a few examples of the privilege which white people classes have.
On a daily basis as white person…
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure renting or purchasing housing in an area
which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to
me.
4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be
'followed or harassed.
5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of
my race widely represented.
6. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that
people of my color made it what it is.
7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the
existence of their race.
8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented,
into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a
hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work
against the appearance of financial reliability.
11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like
them.
12. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having
people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group. 16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who
constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and
behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
18. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge," I will be facing a
person of my race.
19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my
race.
20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and
children's magazines featuring people of my race.
21. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat
tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, out numbered, unheard, held at a distance, or
feared.
22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the
job suspect that I got it because of race.
23. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot
get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or
situation whether it has racial overtones.
26. I can choose blemish cover or bandages in flesh color and have them more or less
match my skin.

Being white guarantees not much that is on the list there, and surely does not apply to blacks where I live. They must have some racist problem in Wisconsin to come up with a list like this.

 

[Joe]

Being white guarantees not much that is on the list there, and surely does not apply to blacks where I live. They must have some racist problem in Wisconsin to come up with a list like this.

No they have a problem with left wing feminist activist trying to stir the pot to create a illusion of unfairness . Really ? Band aids are pinkish they don't match my Floridian skin color either . They study this crap in colleges too ? You wonder why we are falling behind other countries in education ?

 

[Cairenn]

Who was it that posted the picture with a target on Rep Gifford's face? The Southern Poverty Law Center would not have been responsible for the shooting, the SHOOTER would have been. Isn't that what they keep saying about GUNS.

You are missing the point on the band aids, FLESH is a PINK color, not brown. Please stop and but your self in the place of a 4 year old with a band aid that is pointing out that he is NOT the proper color.

 

[JRBids]

No they have a problem with left wing feminist activist trying to stir the pot to create a illusion of unfairness . Really ? Band aids are pinkish they don't match my Floridian skin color either . They study this crap in colleges too ? You wonder why we are falling behind other countries in education ?

Well, being a left wing feminist myself, I think the whole white bracelet thing is bull. You know, people can float any kind of hare brained idea, this is a free country. Remember restitution? So what? You have to believe saner heads will previal. On the other hand I do not think that affirmative action was wrong because people WERE discriminated against because of race. I think women ought to have been a bigger part of it also, because they were also discriminated against. I think it's easy for males, especially those over 50, to lose sight of the fact that there were times when everyone working in good jobs was a white male. That people looked down on women who worked. There are a lot of things I can sympathize with black people for, and acknowledge that they have had it different than white people, especially men, but I also think being guilty for something I had no part of is bull. And to actually make a big deal about a stupid idea, cause that's all it is someones idea, shows that people have nothing real to worry about in their lives.

 

[Grieves]

Affirmative action is racism . Its up to the employer who they want to hire . Would you want someone to hire you if they were forced to because of the way you looked or your sex ? Would I want to work for someone who dislikes me because of the way I look ? Seems you have a bias toward right wingers ? how is that any different ? I have one towards lefties but that doesn't mean I don't have friends or relatives that are Left wingers .

I think many people would say 'a job is a job' in the current climate, regardless of the personal opinions of their employer. Affirmative action isn't 'racism' by any stretch, except perhaps of the imagination. It's simply a policy, even if not the best possible policy, through which the 'playing field' is leveled to some extent for minorities. This whole 'racism is in the past, everyone's equal now, stop giving minorities special treatment' schtick is absolute nonsense. Barrier after barrier, cultural, social, political, even literal have stood in the path of minorities in America. Just because the most offensive and evident of those barriers were done away with a couple of decades ago doesn't mean that many don't still remain. Is it unfortunate that one man might not get a job because an employer, needing to oblige affirmative action, hired a person of a minority instead? Yes, for that one man, certainly.. especially if that man is somewhat more qualified. Is the employer however not somewhat responsible in that their business is so lacking in minority employees that they feel obliged to pass up a more qualified candidate simply to facilitate affirmative action? I think that's an example of an existing disparity within the business itself. In specific situations, as a result of affirmative action, a person belonging to a minority may indeed have an advantage over a white male applying for the same job. If you can name three other legitimate advantages to being of a minority in modern American society that aren't blatantly racist themselves, I'll be a bit more willing to entertain the notion affirmative action is racism. Until then, it will continue looking to me more like an effort to curb racism by diversifying work-place environments and providing greater opportunities to those who've historically and who currently still have fewer available.

Being white guarantees not much that is on the list there, and surely does not apply to blacks where I live. They must have some racist problem in Wisconsin to come up with a list like this.

No they have a problem with left wing feminist activist trying to stir the pot to create a illusion of unfairness . Really ? Band aids are pinkish they don't match my Floridian skin color either . They study this crap in colleges too ? You wonder why we are falling behind other countries in education ?

Perhaps you should attempt to consult a person of color about their feelings on this list before dismissing it. A lot of it seems relatively accurate to me.

From this months Harper's Index, which I may take to quoting more often just for the lolz,

Percentage of US Hispanics who "strongly disagree" with the statement that racism is "by and large a thing of the past": 32
Of US whites who do: 34
Of us blacks: 58

If a majority of black people strongly feel racism is still alive and well, that's pretty indicative of it being so, no?

 

[JonJson]

I am going to suggest that any one that is interested, please take this test

http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/racframe.htm

My hubby is black and I don't think that I have a strong racial bias. But... and that is the problem. I want to see if I can get my hubby to take it and to share his results

I took the test and honestly would need to know the criteria used for determining the results before I put any stock in the results. My main question is with the sequencing of the choices. If it is always the same process then I would think that it is invalid, because everyone would be expected to improve in categorizing of this nature when doing it for a second time.

My results were moderate automatic preference for European American compared to African American.

 

[Joe]

I think many people would say 'a job is a job' in the current climate, regardless of the personal opinions of their employer. Affirmative action isn't 'racism' by any stretch, except perhaps of the imagination. It's simply a policy, even if not the best possible policy, through which the 'playing field' is leveled to some extent for minorities. This whole 'racism is in the past, everyone's equal now, stop giving minorities special treatment' schtick is absolute nonsense. Barrier after barrier, cultural, social, political, even literal have stood in the path of minorities in America. Just because the most offensive and evident of those barriers were done away with a couple of decades ago doesn't mean that many don't still remain. Is it unfortunate that one man might not get a job because an employer, needing to oblige affirmative action, hired a person of a minority instead? Yes, for that one man, certainly.. especially if that man is somewhat more qualified. Is the employer however not somewhat responsible in that their business is so lacking in minority employees that they feel obliged to pass up a more qualified candidate simply to facilitate affirmative action? I think that's an example of an existing disparity within the business itself. In specific situations, as a result of affirmative action, a person belonging to a minority may indeed have an advantage over a white male applying for the same job. If you can name three other legitimate advantages to being of a minority in modern American society that aren't blatantly racist themselves, I'll be a bit more willing to entertain the notion affirmative action is racism. Until then, it will continue looking to me more like an effort to curb racism by diversifying work-place environments and providing greater opportunities to those who've historically and who currently still have fewer available.



Perhaps you should attempt to consult a person of color about their feelings on this list before dismissing it. A lot of it seems relatively accurate to me.

From this months Harper's Index, which I may take to quoting more often just for the lolz,

If a majority of black people strongly feel racism is still alive and well, that's pretty indicative of it being so, no?

The majority of black people are lower income or poor . They been taught their entire life its because of someone else fault that they are poor . Of course they feel that racism is still alive because some of them harbor hatred towards other races mostly the white race . Thanks to race hustlers like Al Sharptounge and Jesse Crackson . Affirmative action is wrong . It favors skin color over experience and skill . There have been many lawsuits over Affirmative action . There isnt a country in the world where there isnt racism of some sort . Mexico is a perfect example . In LA Mexicans Hate Blacks And Blacks hate Mexicans .

 

[Grieves]

I see you were incapable of providing other examples of a minority having an advantage in American society over a 'white' person.

Of course they feel that racism is still alive because some of them harbor hatred towards other races mostly the white race .

So a majority of black Americans feel racism is still alive because they themselves are racist....? Which, in your mind, suggests racism is in fact not a major problem...? That's some messed up logic, man.

They been taught their entire life its because of someone else fault that they are poor .

I'm sorry, what? Who's teaching 'them' this exactly, in your mind...? Where are you getting this notion from? It seems to me like a personal opinion mired in heavy prejudice. The understanding that they're at a somewhat obvious disadvantage in a society where they were treated as sub-human once and only escaped that classification within the last few decades isn't some misguided belief rooted in anti-white sentiment, its the historical and modern cultural facts of being black in America. To claim that 'racism is over' in today's society only heavily retards its actual elimination... evidenced by the way you unknowingly display sentiments deeply rooted in common anti-black prejudice.

 

[Cairenn]

Here is a REAL world example. My hubby is black, he is a geophysical engineer. He never attended public school, since his mom managed to keep all 4 of her children in Catholic schools. He does not have any of the 'black speech' patterns. However, from a young age, he got the message that if you are black, you don't complain in person about poor service. When he was growing up, that might well get you arrested for 'disturbing the peace'.

Now to the real world incident. My hubby took his old car (the good car is mine and this was the seldom used backup) into Sears to get the State Inspection done. They failed it, found 3 things wrong. He repaired them, took it back, failed again and would you believe, a new set of 3 things wrong. He repaired them --he did NOT have SEARS do the work. Time to take it back in, I offered, since by now, I knew that they were trying to screw him over. Back to SEARS, failed and wouldn't you KNOW it, 3 problems AGAIN. One of which, had already been repaired. Time for the WHITE women to complain. I asked for the manager of the Auto shop. When they got him, I told him the story of what had happened. In a firm, louder than normal voice (I project my voice well and I have a fairly low voice for a women). And yes I saw folks shopping stopping to listen. The manager tried to tell me that 'their techs are just real strict' . I pointed out if they were that good, that they should have found ALL the problems on the first trip. (this all happened in a one wk period with the car not being driven in between trips to Sears. I then pointed out that one item had been repaired and it had already been passed on the last visit. I asked him if the goal wasn't to get them to do the repair and if they had of, would it have passed? My now, folks were paying attention. The manager asked if he could see the car (he wanted me OUT of the store). We went outside and he ended up refunding the inspection fee ( they are not to do that by law). I drove over to K-Mart I think and it passed with NO problems. SEARS knew that a black man wouldn't complain, they intended to get him to have them do the repairs--it was all a rip off. (BTW-- about 6 months later the state of Texas filed charges against SEARS for doing what they tried to do to us)

That sort of thing happens to the minority community all the time. They are overcharged, harassed ( how many times has a security guard followed YOU around a store? and then MADE you pass through the scanner multiple times? ---yep I have seen that happen to my hubby) and treated like you are inferior. Racism is a ALIVE and well in the US

 

[Grieves]

It's nice to agree on something for once, Cairenn.

 

[Cairenn]

I have been kicked from liberal sites, because I am too conservative and from conservative leaning sites because I am too liberal.

I feel that most folks come to their opinions by their life experiences, and we all have different ones.

 

[JonJson]

Back to SEARS, failed and wouldn't you KNOW it, 3 problems AGAIN. One of which, had already been repaired. Time for the WHITE women to complain. I asked for the manager of the Auto shop. When they got him, I told him the story of what had happened. In a firm, louder than normal voice (I project my voice well and I have a fairly low voice for a women). And yes I saw folks shopping stopping to listen. The manager tried to tell me that 'their techs are just real strict' . I pointed out if they were that good, that they should have found ALL the problems on the first trip. (this all happened in a one wk period with the car not being driven in between trips to Sears. I then pointed out that one item had been repaired and it had already been passed on the last visit. I asked him if the goal wasn't to get them to do the repair and if they had of, would it have passed? My now, folks were paying attention. The manager asked if he could see the car (he wanted me OUT of the store). We went outside and he ended up refunding the inspection fee ( they are not to do that by law). I drove over to K-Mart I think and it passed with NO problems. SEARS knew that a black man wouldn't complain, they intended to get him to have them do the repairs--it was all a rip off. (BTW-- about 6 months later the state of Texas filed charges against SEARS for doing what they tried to do to us)

To be honest to me this doesn't draw an example of Sears discriminating against your husband but of Sears having corrupt practices regarding it's customers in general. Sears has many complaints of fraud with regards to it's auto repair facilities over the years.

http://www.searchautoparts.com/motorage/news/new-jersey-alleges-fraud-19-sears-auto-repair-sites
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/sears-auto-center-henrietta-new-york-c577952.html
http://lubbockonline.com/stories/061799/bus_061799089.shtml

 

[Oxymoron]

To be honest to me this doesn't draw an example of Sears discriminating against your husband but of Sears having corrupt practices regarding it's customers in general. Sears has many complaints of fraud with regards to it's auto repair facilities over the years.

I think that is probably a fair analysis and also extends to many other services and business models. Women often complain that they are taken advantage of, ripped off, by garages because they are women but I think the tendency is to 'rip off' those who do not know enough about the subject or are unwilling to complain, irrespective of racial, gender or social factors.

If the unwillingness to complain is through fear of being arrested, then there is a fault in the policing system.

Racialism is a tricky subject IMO, we all have likes and dislikes... people who we 'connect with' and maybe go out of our way to help and those that we 'do not gel with', maybe resulting in a more 'by the book' approach. If people find they do not get on with a particular group or type of person, the chances are they have developed some 'ism' which ideally they should look at and try to re evaluate.

I think stereotypical representation in the media has a large influence on people. Some fears may be well founded and there are areas where I would not feel safe but that would be to do with known criminality and violence in the area, it would have nothing to do with racialism, it would be about self preservation.

 

[Cairenn]

It was both, I really doubt if they would have tried that on a newer more expensive car. They saw an old car and felt that they could screw the owner. Often social status is where the discrimination is.

I have noticed 2 'styles' of dealing with issues of all types among minorities, The first is the quiet, passive one my hubby does. If he complains, it will be in a letter. The other is the 'IN your face' one that some activists use. I feel that they want to be too well known to get arrested for something silly.

Most folks do tend to choose to be around folks with common backgrounds. Place me in a room with one of Kennedy's or one of the Bush's and I am not sure what I would even talk about (Ann Romney I could manage, I would ask her about her horse). I feel that is often what gives rise to cliques in groups --you know folks and their skill and their faults (my friends KNOW that if they need me somewhere at 1 pm, tell me either Noon or 12:30, otherwise they will have to wait. )

One thing about groups like police, they are taught to look for folks or things that are 'out of place'. Like a minority in a white part of town. I have several dogs buried in a pet cemetery that is in a poor, minority neighborhood. I have seen the police checking me out, when I go over there. I know that they are wondering "Why is that white lady here?" I see it less now that I am older.

We all need to strive to try to look at things from the other persons point of view

 

[Grieves]

we all have likes and dislikes... people who we 'connect with' and maybe go out of our way to help and those that we 'do not gel with', maybe resulting in a more 'by the book' approach. If people find they do not get on with a particular group or type of person, the chances are they have developed some 'ism' which ideally they should look at and try to re evaluate.

Agreed, but I think we should and could be past the point by now where race is a factor in that. Rest assured I abound with unfounded judgments of complete strangers based on their appearance alone. I can't deny that for an instant. But rarely to never is it sourced in or even impacted by the color of their skin/their supposed ancestry. I, for example, cannot stand 'thugz'. White, black, Hispanic, Asian, they come in all shapes and sizes around here it seems, and I can barely tolerate seeing them roaming about with their pants around their knees, underpanted asses hanging out in the middle of a bitter goddamn winter, waddle-strutting down the street in girlishly fur-hooded packs. Anyone who engages in that sort of act has got to be, I instantly assume, a moron; especially given I bore direct witness to the gestation of the trend. The thing is, the few 'thugz' I've actually gotten to know are generally decent people, so I have to admit my immediate negative judgement is a somewhat baseless prejudice I should probably try and shake.

I think stereotypical representation in the media has a large influence on people.

Again, agreed entirely. I have to admit that just the other morning I found myself engaging in racial profiling. I was standing in line at the Tim Hortons, groggily waiting to get myself their version of tea, when a wiry young man of middle-eastern descent not properly dressed for the weather walked in, and then started hovering about the door, glancing about confusedly, uncertainly stepping in and out of line. I thought it was a little odd, gave him a once over, saw he was holding a duffle bag to his midsection. Entirely in spite of myself, 'bomb?' momentarily leapt into my brain. It certainly didn't linger, a prompt internal bitch-slap brought me back to my senses, but I was rather taken aback that such a thing had even occurred to me. I've chocked it up to having taken up 'Homeland'.

 

[Cairenn]

And I think the media helps to fuel a lot of the CT theorists. How many twists and turns does the average police procedural take? It is NEVER the obvious suspect. Shows like Criminal Minds, make folks think that there are a lot more serial killers around. The shows like 24 and Homeland and before them Alias ( I liked it at the beginning then it got too unbelievable for me) have long convoluted plots and they influence folks. Back in the days of the soap operas, the stars would get letters telling them that their 'series hubby' was cheating on them or that someone was plotting to kill them. Folks seem to have trouble understanding that is just a STORY.

 

[Oxymoron]

I, for example, cannot stand 'thugz'. White, black, Hispanic, Asian, they come in all shapes and sizes around here it seems, and I can barely tolerate seeing them roaming about with their pants around their knees, underpanted asses hanging out in the middle of a bitter goddamn winter, waddle-strutting down the street in girlishly fur-hooded packs. Anyone who engages in that sort of act has got to be, I instantly assume, a moron; especially given I bore direct witness to the gestation of the trend. The thing is, the few 'thugz' I've actually gotten to know are generally decent people, so I have to admit my immediate negative judgement is a somewhat baseless prejudice I should probably try and shake.

Yes, 'thugz', anyone we perceive as a physical threat. That covers a lot of different aspects and is rooted deeply and may be triggered inappropriately by a bad experience associated with a similar person or group of similar people. Again it is 'fight or flight' impulses which may be triggered and have to be subdued consciously, as in your 'bomb' example.

But some of it may be cultural distaste, as in dress codes, antisocial behaviour which is not necessarily culturally antisocial, etc.

As Cairenn said, 'we generally choose to be around folks with common backgrounds'.

I think many people are so intolerant of 'difference', if we are ever visited by aliens... we could be in trouble

 

[Grieves]

I think many people are so intolerant of 'difference', if we are ever visited by aliens... we could be in trouble

Don't you know, man?
Don't you know..?


I find the current crime shows, rather than fueling notions of grand conspiracy, espouse and promote the idea that the people around you, your neighbors/your community/any stranger on the street is a potential threat. Every day in the life of these intrepid police forces, the list of whom keeps growing and growing, is filled with heinous fiends and soulless opportunists of all kinds disguising themselves as ordinary folk. The most insipidly stupid of these programs would have to be 'Grimm', or as I see it 'Detective Harry-Potter the Vampire Slayer', which is an entirely standard cop-action/drama besides the fact the main character is imbued with the magical ability to briefly see the 'monsters' in society for what they really are, literal Monsters.... all with a very loose tie-in to Grimm's fairy-tales. The show is thick as bricks, garbage scripts, totally uninteresting characters... but it's rather popular at the moment, and sends creepy messages... such as the end of one episode revealing Hitler was a wolf-man, and the War/holocaust was the result of his being under the 'One Ring' like influence of magical coins.
Homeland is something else, and I'm not entirely sure how I feel about it. It's brilliantly acted, well written for the most part, and an exceedingly clever plot... but I've always had a negative gut reaction to productions which use the events of 9/11 as the subject of/a major aspect in their plots. It's become increasingly less visceral an experience (This and this I found deplorable, and have refused to watch... this I actually sat through, and only tasted puke.) Still, Homeland is set in a world which, though very distinctly similar in many significant respects to our own, is also clearly fictional. That's a significant distinction for me, and always has been. Thus I don't despise it for depicting the CIA in such a rosy light, or the threat of terrorist acts against common Americans as being so incredibly dire.

 

[Joe]

Here is a REAL world example. My hubby is black, he is a geophysical engineer. He never attended public school, since his mom managed to keep all 4 of her children in Catholic schools. He does not have any of the 'black speech' patterns. However, from a young age, he got the message that if you are black, you don't complain in person about poor service. When he was growing up, that might well get you arrested for 'disturbing the peace'.

Now to the real world incident. My hubby took his old car (the good car is mine and this was the seldom used backup) into Sears to get the State Inspection done. They failed it, found 3 things wrong. He repaired them, took it back, failed again and would you believe, a new set of 3 things wrong. He repaired them --he did NOT have SEARS do the work. Time to take it back in, I offered, since by now, I knew that they were trying to screw him over. Back to SEARS, failed and wouldn't you KNOW it, 3 problems AGAIN. One of which, had already been repaired. Time for the WHITE women to complain. I asked for the manager of the Auto shop. When they got him, I told him the story of what had happened. In a firm, louder than normal voice (I project my voice well and I have a fairly low voice for a women). And yes I saw folks shopping stopping to listen. The manager tried to tell me that 'their techs are just real strict' . I pointed out if they were that good, that they should have found ALL the problems on the first trip. (this all happened in a one wk period with the car not being driven in between trips to Sears. I then pointed out that one item had been repaired and it had already been passed on the last visit. I asked him if the goal wasn't to get them to do the repair and if they had of, would it have passed? My now, folks were paying attention. The manager asked if he could see the car (he wanted me OUT of the store). We went outside and he ended up refunding the inspection fee ( they are not to do that by law). I drove over to K-Mart I think and it passed with NO problems. SEARS knew that a black man wouldn't complain, they intended to get him to have them do the repairs--it was all a rip off. (BTW-- about 6 months later the state of Texas filed charges against SEARS for doing what they tried to do to us)

That sort of thing happens to the minority community all the time. They are overcharged, harassed ( how many times has a security guard followed YOU around a store? and then MADE you pass through the scanner multiple times? ---yep I have seen that happen to my hubby) and treated like you are inferior. Racism is a ALIVE and well in the US

So sears screwed him over Because he was black ? or because they screw everybody over ? They knew a black man wouldnt complain ? Did they say that or was that just what you thought ? I think some blacks just think that it because of racism . Sears Must hold racism to little old ladies too because they always get screwed .

 

[JRBids]

I have been kicked from liberal sites, because I am too conservative and from conservative leaning sites because I am too liberal.

LOL so have I! Isn't that funny! I get told I'm a conservative posing as a liberal and a liberal posing as a conservative.

 

[Joe]

I see you were incapable of providing other examples of a minority having an advantage in American society over a 'white' person.


So a majority of black Americans feel racism is still alive because they themselves are racist....? Which, in your mind, suggests racism is in fact not a major problem...? That's some messed up logic, man.


I'm sorry, what? Who's teaching 'them' this exactly, in your mind...? Where are you getting this notion from? It seems to me like a personal opinion mired in heavy prejudice. The understanding that they're at a somewhat obvious disadvantage in a society where they were treated as sub-human once and only escaped that classification within the last few decades isn't some misguided belief rooted in anti-white sentiment, its the historical and modern cultural facts of being black in America. To claim that 'racism is over' in today's society only heavily retards its actual elimination... evidenced by the way you unknowingly display sentiments deeply rooted in common anti-black prejudice.

I did its affirmative action . Lets not forget BET? if there were a WET there would be cries of racism . Ebony Awards ? if there were Ivory Awards there would be cries of racism . Would you also like me to list all the courts cases of lawsuits by whites discriminated against because they werent black ? Even if they were more qualified ? Im not saying its not a problem , Im just saying since the begining of time till the end of time it will always exist . No Im just not a coward like most . I love everyone I don care what color they are since Im such a mix of everything . I just know that when people blame others all their life they are holding themselves back . Playing victim all their life doesnt help . I used to think when was younger that big whites guys riding Harley Davidson's Know as bikers were Scary only to find out that they were actually the kindest people Iv ever met . Is that racist ? Or normal behavior ?

 

[Joe]

I have been kicked from liberal sites, because I am too conservative and from conservative leaning sites because I am too liberal.

I feel that most folks come to their opinions by their life experiences, and we all have different ones.

Whats your opinion of the Tea Party ?

 

[Oxymoron]

It's become increasingly less visceral an experience (This and this I found deplorable, and have refused to watch... this I actually sat through, and only tasted puke.)

Haven't seen any of these

Still, Homeland is set in a world which, though very distinctly similar in many significant respects to our own, is also clearly fictional. That's a significant distinction for me, and always has been. Thus I don't despise it for depicting the CIA in such a rosy light, or the threat of terrorist acts against common Americans as being so incredibly dire.

Content from External Source

Homeland was excellent. Agree with your comments on it.

This documentary brings up some difficult issues and looks at different perspectives. I think it also linked to this thread as indirectly it examines how we view (or misview) others and ourselves.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rgrn9/This_World_Iraq_Did_My_Son_Die_in_Vain/