I should have time to get into more detail in a few days but in the interim here's a little blurb about density in the thermosphere/ionosphere:
The gases of the thermosphere are increasingly thinner than in the mesosphere. As such, incoming high energy ultraviolet and x-ray radiation from the sun, absorbed by the molecules in this layer, causes a large temperature increase.
Because of this absorption, the temperature increases with height and can reach as high as 3,600°F (2,000°C) near the top of this layer; however, despite the high temperature, this layer of the atmosphere would still feel very cold to our skin because of the extremely thin air. The total amount of energy from the very few molecules in this layer is not enough to heat our skin.
The mass of the thermosphere above about 85 km is only 0.002% of the total mass. Therefore, no significant energetic feedback from the thermosphere to the lower atmospheric regions can be expected.
This image does not support the claim that ionospheric conditions affect weather, it shows mountain gravity waves in the troposphere affecting the jet stream at the interface of the troposphere and the stratosphere, but not above.
The second graphic was attached by mistake. I originally addressed it and then removed my comment regarding it. I also thougt that I had removed the image. When I posted, it was there. Here is a statement from the first page of the link that the graphic came from.
Gravity waves expand horizontally and vertically until they encounter a major wind circulation system, which causes the gravity waves to collapse, thereby accelerating or slowing down the jet stream. The circulation system can also be redirected as a consequence. This is the effect that will be more precisely incorporated in the climate models.
The jet stream and gravity wave dynamics will be addressed in depth since it is scientifically established that gravity waves are modified and created by rf transmitters and that these gravity waves are coupled to weather.
The infographic simply shows a reflecting layer at the top. This layer can be created and altered by rf heaters (see previous linked examples from this thread). I will post an additional published paper detailing creation of a new low latitude plasma layer in my next post.
If I post a graphic again, I will be sure to address exactly why it has been included.
The claim that Mike makes utilizing only one of the 2 examples posted on downward traveling buoyancy waves will be addressed this way. - Mike, you have correctly noted that the gravity wave has been trapped inside of an energized layer.
So, what are the energy effects of this wave being captured? What are the weather effects if this downward moving buoyancy wave is captured by an artificially created layer? Any one ?
Solrey, Thanks for the NOAA link and The Wiki link. Both of those are a good starting point but illustrate only general concepts. Neither link offers a detailed look at the energized boundary layers. The wiki link identifies that there is little mixing above about 85 km. The 'about' is important and the regions of (approx.) 85 kilometers down is where dynamic coupling exists and is intensely being studied. The dynamics for coupling will be looked at more intensely to better demonstrate coupling processes. The infographic showing the 3 coupled areas shows the top layer (or ball) extending down below 80km. There is energy that can be passed over my hand that will not burn me and this very same energy will very much effect chemistry and properties of other materials. When examining plasmas it is beneficial to post interdisciplinary science for demonstration purposes. I suspect this will set off some ripples of discontent but so be it.
Originally Posted by Ross Marsden
So that is a statement of your claim.
Can you give an example of where and when this has happened?
I'm looking for a place and a date, what "should" have happened, and what actually happened as a result of the weather modification.
Thanks. opcorn:
Originally Posted by electrojet
Re; The claim I make is a blanket one, transmitter experiments alter weather. Specifically that transmitters change the altitude of gravity wave breaking. This wave breaking is inexorably linked to terrestrial weather.
[snip]
So, again, can you provide a place and date/time when the weather was altered?
What was expected to happen (unaltered), and what actually happened... what aspect was "altered" and to what extent?
Thanks
Carl Sagan - "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
Hi Ross, I can repost all the scientific evidence that rf heaters modify and create gravity waves and how gravity waves are proven to be coupled to circulation and weather. This is the evidence. It is not extraoridinary. The claims are detailed in peer reviewed and published documents. The specific date, time and exact event are open for debate, I can certainly relate to your wanting to know. The space weather link to terrestrial weather is one that exists and it also cannot give u information that will improve the accuracy of a weather forecast.
Commerce and duties to attend to, so I will post the new links as soon as I am able
Peace, Bryan
"No action is without it's side effects"
"If you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, you are looking the wrong way" -quotes attributed to Barry Commoner
You do realize that the ionosphere varies in height (85-600 km) depending on the time of night and day, the effect of solar rays blasting on them, etc, and consist of different layers (D, E, F1 nd F2) that respond differently depending on the frequency of radio transmission reaching them?
Hi FuzzyUK, Yes all of those change the dynamics and altitude. The studies done during solar eclipses are interesting also.
The electromagnetic radiation from a solar blast arrive in approx. 10 minutes, the energetic particles arrive about 10 hours later and the shock wave up to several days after. All 3 have effects that are fascinating.
Well wishes from the other side of the pond -Bryan
...
Because of this absorption, the temperature increases with height and can reach as high as 3,600°F (2,000°C) near the top of this layer; however, despite the high temperature, this layer of the atmosphere would still feel very cold to our skin because of the extremely thin air. The total amount of energy from the very few molecules in this layer is not enough to heat our skin.
Well that was an interesting read. Hmmm, any ionized gas in a plasma, ionization occurs when a valence shell electron gets knocked off by some form of radiation with the right frequency characteristics to do so, gravity waves aren't really much different than standard turbulence except they propagate vertically instead of horizontally, either can be caused and generally are caused by topography, although high and low presure systems can also cause this vertical movement. Oh and I'm not sure Electro has the difference between weather and climate down. Might want to go look that one up, cause weather models are subject to edge effects and so are not nearly as dependable in the long term as climate models which are an average of all weather. Hmmm oh and the ionosphere is just the area of the atmosphere that is influence by radiation of the proper characteristics to "ionize" the atmosphere, which is why it varies so much.
I am not sure that I have anything down. So what does the research say?
One of the most consistent objections is that gravity waves only have an upward traveling effect. This is not supported by the research. The dynamic coupling of weather in the upper atmosphere impacts terrestrial weather. The key changes are chemistry, energy-electrical. The fair weather return is the transport of chemicals and energy from the upper atmosphere (approximately 85km) downwards into the troposphere. Gravity waves are modified and created (artificially), these gravity waves impact weather. HAARP and other arrays both create and modify gravity waves. That is weather modification AND climate modification.
The models that are being studied at EISCAT include climatic effects. The effects of gravity waves have implications for localized weather as well as altering the meridional flow and the polar vortex (climate). So very often I mention them both. The splitting of the polar vortex or reversal of air flows can impact long term weather.
Figure 2: Schematic diagram indicating the role of different aspects of the dynamics in the dynamical mechanisms discussed in the text. Note that ‘dynamics of mean circulation’ includes non-local PV inversion (or equivalently the short-time effect of the meridional circulation) and the effect of the meridional circulation on longer time scales, including the ‘downward control’ limit. (Copyright 2000, Natl. Acad. Sci, U.S.A. Reproduced with permission.)
From http://www.atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca/SPARC/News25/coupling.html
And,
However, the researchers discovered the tides could affect the plasma bands indirectly by modifying a layer of the atmosphere below the bands that shapes them. Below the plasma bands, a layer of the ionosphere called the E-layer becomes partially electrified during the day. This region creates the plasma bands above it when high-altitude winds blow plasma in the E-layer across the Earth's magnetic field. Since plasma is electrically charged, its motion across the Earth's magnetic field acts like a generator, creating an electric field. This electric field shapes the plasma above into the two bands. Anything that would change the motion of the E-layer plasma would also change the electric fields they generate, which would then reshape the plasma bands above.
The nasa press release is one of my least favorite sources as too often the science workers for NASA submit their data and when they read the press release they are often surprised by what is in the public statement as it often does not even resemble their research.
A composite analysis of the downward propagat-ing cases reveals the important role of wave breaking in the development of stratospheric vortex anomalies. Vertically propagating planetary waves disturb the stra- tospheric circulation and transport heat and momentum from mid-latitudes into the polar region, causing strong stratospheric warmings. Immediate temperature increases can be observed over the polar cap, while over the mid- latitudes the temperature signal exhibits a downward propagating structure representing the dynamical evolu- tion of the stratospheric vortex disturbance. In the lower stratosphere and near the tropopause, the temperature anomalies persist due to the relatively low efficiency of radiative cooling at these height levels [ Kiehl and Solomon , 1986]. Anomalies in the residual mean meridional circula- tion partly contribute to the adiabatic warming in the lower stratosphere, but the anomaly in the residual circulation mass stream function is mainly restricted to the period of the strongest dynamical disturbance in the stratosphere.
Gravity wave breaking... So the question becomes how much are rf transmitters modifying the polar flows? Are they adding in more polar heating and more instabilities in global circulation ? I know that the HAARP FAQ section says they are just a harmless research facility doing a few random atmospheric testing experiments.
They don't, its not rocket science to realize that perturbations in a less dense medium have little effect on an adjacent greater density medium proportional to the density differences between the two mediums.
Gravity wave breaking... So the question becomes how much are rf transmitters modifying the polar flows? Are they adding in more polar heating and more instabilities in global circulation ? I know that the HAARP FAQ section says they are just a harmless research facility doing a few random atmospheric testing experiments.
What is that cloud photo supposed to be illustrating? It's just an iridescent cloud with the spectrum caused by variations in particle sizes and Mie scattering.
They don't, its not rocket science to realize that perturbations in a less dense medium have little effect on an adjacent greater density medium proportional to the density differences between the two mediums.
The nasa press release is one of my least favorite sources as too often the science workers for NASA submit their data and when they read the press release they are often surprised by what is in the public statement as it often does not even resemble their research.
A composite analysis of the downward propagating
cases reveals the important role of wave breaking in
the development of stratospheric vortex anomalies.
Vertically propagating planetary waves disturb the stra-
tospheric circulation and transport heat and momentum
from mid-latitudes into the polar region, causing strong
stratospheric warmings. Immediate temperature increases
can be observed over the polar cap, while over the mid-
latitudes the temperature signal exhibits a downward
propagating structure representing the dynamical evolu-
tion of the stratospheric vortex disturbance. In the lower
stratosphere and near the tropopause, the temperature
anomalies persist due to the relatively low efficiency of
radiative cooling at these height levels [Kiehl and Solomon, 1986].
Anomalies in the residual mean meridional circula-
tion partly contribute to the adiabatic warming in the
lower stratosphere, but the anomaly in the residual
circulation mass stream function is mainly restricted to
the period of the strongest dynamical disturbance in the
stratosphere.
Gravity wave breaking... So the question becomes how much are rf transmitters modifying the polar flows? Are they adding in more polar heating and more instabilities in global circulation ? I know that the HAARP FAQ section says they are just a harmless research facility doing a few random atmospheric testing experiments.
Did you read (and understand) the paragraph above that in the Conclusions where it says:
Extreme winter cold spells over Northern Europe
with a return period of about 12 years are investigated in
a long pre-industrial control simulation using the MPI
Earth System Model. A significant relation between
such cold air outbreaks and preceding circulation
anomalies in the stratosphere up to at least 50 hPa can be
detected. 17 out of 41 cold spells occur in association
with a downward propagating dynamical disturbance which originates in the stratosphere. However, also in
these cases preexisting geopotential height anomalies
reminiscent of a negative annular mode pattern are
present in the troposphere.
Cloudspotter, hopefully this will address your statement. The vast majority of gravity waves move up. The downward effect on weather is seen in the fair weather exchange, downwelling of the polar vortex and chemistry alterations and energy (or energetic potential) that moves downward. Gravity waves are characterized as energy carriers. Moving energy around at 60km exerts an influence below. The studies I have read note that downward propagating waves are ducted or tunnel into lower atmospheric boundary layers where they are captured and spread energy horizontally (evanescent waves) The effects of gravity wave and wave breaking at 80km modify the dynamics of weather. By modifying the F layer, chemistry changes occur that are directly linked with meridional circulation and the downwelling of the polar vortex.
Gravity waves interact with zonal winds wind shear and the electric circuit of various ionospheric layers creating significant effects on all. By Modifying the electrical layer(s), modifying and creating gravity waves and the dynamic coupling of weather is changed. Beaming waves into the ionosphere during the night time produces localized effects that are dramatic, 200-350% increases in plasma density have been achieved.
Boston wrote;
They don't, its not rocket science to realize that perturbations in a less dense medium have little effect on an adjacent greater density medium proportional to the density differences between the two mediums.
Correct in that gravity waves from the mesosphere do not travel all the way down to the troposphere. The waves most often propagate upwards. Wave-wave interactions and TID's require more study.
With regards to rf transmitters, including SBX platforms, they are capable of creating gravity waves and increasing the density of a region. The transmitters can focus on regions of the greatest density or adjacent regions.
Pete posted;
They don't, its not rocket science to realize that perturbations in a less dense medium have little effect on an adjacent greater density medium proportional to the density differences between the two mediums. -Boston
And that simple logic applies to claims of HAARP weather manipulation - Pete
So what evidence are you looking for Pete? It would be more compelling to see data that states this experiment caused the polar vortex to split in 2, which lead to an unusually cool spring for regions of the upper midwest, but I do not think that this correlation can be firmly made for a while.
Gravity waves carry momentum and energy between different points in the atmosphere. If a gravity wave is generated at a source region (e.g. a mountain) and dissipates somewhere else, this amounts to a transfer of energy and momentum from the first point to the second. When energy and momentum are deposited in the dissipation region, they can alter the mean flow. Meteorologists have realized in the last decade that computer models are not always very good at predicting mean winds, or making good forecasts, and they have now realized that part of the reason for this is that they had not been including gravity wave generation and dissipation in their models. A considerable amount of effort is being turned towards proper parametrization of gravity waves in meteorological models.
In the upper regions of the atmosphere, especially the stratosphere and mesosphere, gravity waves have huge effects. For example, in the mesosphere it has been found that by including gravity waves in computer models, the directions of the winds have in some cases even been reversed relative to the expected wind directions deduced without inclusion of gravity waves! The values deduced with gravity waves included agree better with observations than do the older predictions.
This thread has given academic evidence that;
A) rf transmitters create acoustic gravity waves and can modify and change wave breaking and wave-wave interactions.
B) Gravity waves exert a very significant effect on the meridional circulation and zonal wind flows (including the reversal of winds)
C) rf transmitters modify regions of the ionosphere and change plasma densities and cause chemical and molecular changes.
D) rf transmitters alter electrical dynamics from 50-350km.
E) weather is a dynically linked system. Modifying the ionosphere is modifying stratospheric and tropospheric weather and climate.
figure 2 above and the dynamical coupling diagram both indicate upwards and downwards effects of weather. Rf transmitters modify chemistry and heat and electeical potential at 85 km. This modifies weather below, such as the meridional flow.
As for a weather forecast based upon EISCAT heating experiments don't hold your breath. Neither do I expect to see a press conference announcing how HAARP is making progress on altering the jet stream. I believe along the lines of what Eastlundd has stated publicly that todays transmitters can and are affecting zonal winds.
Happy Friday or Saturday, Happy Monday! You asked about the NASA press releases and the comment that I made about them being unrecognizable to the scientists who submitted their papers. I will look for the statement of this. I did not make this statement in direct regards to this report. In the past NASA press reports have received this criticism. I would really like the full studies that lead to this report. The electrical currents in the tropics is relevant to the discussion of weather modification.
Mick,
I agree it is an iridescent cloud. I am interested in the chemistry and electrical properties of these clouds. Do the wavelengths of iridescent clouds match those of nacreous or noctilucent clouds? I will be posting more on clouds eventually. The cloud looks like a sheet, its just a great picture of a super thin cloud.
Bryan
Wisdom is the compass by which man is to steer across the trackless waste of life; without it he
is a derelict vessel, the sport of winds and waves. -Charles Spurgeon
Ross, I will address your claim thoroughly. Thanks !
I'm not personally looking for evidence - if you mean what would convince me, it would be an explanation or demonstration for how actions in a less dense medium can transfer energy into an increasingly denser medium, without using words or concepts I don't understand.
While it is very possible that you have posted this information already and it's flown completely over my head due to my lack of discernment in things of a scientific nature, the likely-hood of it being missed by more informed others on here is remote.
While you should primarily work on convincing the more scientifically literate of your case, the less informed audience is also someone you should be able to communicate the concept to.
I am just enough informed to know that you are pushing a hypothesis that may not actually conform to earthly physics as we know it.
So far it seem the consensus from those with greater understanding than I is "I don't think that means what you think it means."
You do post nice pictures though (of known and explained phenomena).
This thread has given academic evidence that;
A) rf transmitters create acoustic gravity waves and can modify and change wave breaking and wave-wave interactions.
B) Gravity waves exert a very significant effect on the meridional circulation and zonal wind flows (including the reversal of winds)
C) rf transmitters modify regions of the ionosphere and change plasma densities and cause chemical and molecular changes.
D) rf transmitters alter electrical dynamics from 50-350km.
E) weather is a dynically linked system. Modifying the ionosphere is modifying stratospheric and tropospheric weather and climate.
A) Not established. What is an "acoustic gravity wave"? The claim is meaningless.
B) They do not. Read that quote again... the one in your last post which is where I suppose you are basing this false claim.
C) "cause chemical and molecular changes"? How? Quote the post where you think this is established.
D) As low as 50km? I would be surprised. Anyway, which post in this thread established that?
E) Not weather, but the atmosphere is a dynamically linked system. They are not the same, so, false. I have yet to be convinced that significant amounts of kinetic energy propagates from the ionosphere to the troposphere. Which post containing an academic reference about it in this thread established that? Or are you just extrapolating?
Here is a claim: You post an awefull lot of gobbledegook.
In your last two posts most of it is concentrated in the opening paragraphs.
To state that I persist in linking and quoting material that does not support my claims, is a claim or a statement, framed within a question.
In the case of the paper that you noted, it is a very good question. The model that is utilized for the paper is stratosphere - troposphere coupling.
The research within only discusses mid and lower latitudes directly. The stratopause is approximately 31 miles in height or 50 km-some data puts the stratopause a few miles / km. higher.
The paper indirectly identifies a larger arena of dynamics though by mentioning Rossby Waves, also referred to as planetary waves. These waves propagate into the mesosphere and thermosphere, areas that are receiving intense study for their dynamic linking to tropospheric weather. It also mentions meridional circulation and zonal winds and other atmospheric processes that extend far above 50-55km. The scope of the paper only examines stratosphere-troposphere coupling. There is a flurry of research looking into the dynamic coupling that extends much higher.
Vertically propagating planetary waves disturb the stra- tospheric circulation and transport heat and momentum from mid-latitudes into the polar region, causing strong stratospheric warmings.
The above quote caps it's investigation at the stratosphere. The planetary waves continue into the mesosphere and deposit large amounts of energy. This energy exerts influence on circulation, zonal winds and the polar vortex. References for these are found previously within this thread but there are also many more examinations of dynamic coupling from 85km down to the troposphere.
For instance
Science program
The main scientific objective studied at the IAP is the middle atmosphere in the altitude range 10-100km with particular emphasis on the dynamical coupling between the lower and middle atmosphere. The upper part of the middle atmosphere, say between 70 and 100 km, is one of the least understood region of our atmosphere. The scientific interest in this region has steadily increased in the last years since there is more and more evidence that this region could be specially sensitive to global change. Modern active remote sensing techniques, in particular radars and lidars, are now capable of revealing new and unprecedented experimental information about the physical processes in the middle atmosphere and their long term trend.
The main scientific objectives studied at the IAP are as follows (the labels Exp and Mod indicate that this particular field is studied by experimental and model techniques, respectively)
The polar middle atmosphere including noctilucent clouds, NLC, and polar mesosphere summer echoes, PMSE (Exp, Mod)
The atmosphere at the mesopause (Exp, Mod)
Metal atom layers at altitudes from 80 to 110 km (Exp, Mod)
Tides and gravity waves in the middle atmosphere (Exp, Mod)
Low frequency variability of the dynamical coupling between the troposphere and stratosphere (Mod)
Physics of the meridional circulation (Mod)
Processes at the tropopause, mixing of trace gases (Exp, Mod)
Trends in the middle atmosphere (Exp, Mod)
Furthermore, some scientists at the IAP are working in specific areas not listed above, for example the technological improvement of the experimental techniques. Every 2 years the scientific results are published in a report the latest version of which can be found under annual report.
The institute consists of 3 departments:
There are some additional pages that I want to put up that discuss zonal winds, meridional flow, polar vortex and planetary waves. Also I want to look at the lowest altitude that rf transmitters have demonstrated atmospheric effects. The D layer can be energized by HAARP and other arrays (daytime). The D layer altitude is a few miles higher than the stratopause.
A) Not established. What is an "acoustic gravity wave"? The claim is meaningless.
B) They do not. Read that quote again... the one in your last post which is where I suppose you are basing this false claim.
C) "cause chemical and molecular changes"? How? Quote the post where you think this is established.
D) As low as 50km? I would be surprised. Anyway, which post in this thread established that?
E) Not weather, but the atmosphere is a dynamically linked system. They are not the same, so, false. I have yet to be convinced that significant amounts of kinetic energy propagates from the ionosphere to the troposphere. Which post containing an academic reference about it in this thread established that? Or are you just extrapolating?
Here is a claim: You post an awefull lot of gobbledegook.
In your last two posts most of it is concentrated in the opening paragraphs.
The information is not mine. It is documented in dozens of atmospheric studies.
For instance. A) Acoustic gravity waves are discussed at length within the HAARP published study in which acoustic gravity waves are created by rf heating.
This is not my claim. It does not require me. It is discussed in the scientific literature. Acoustic gravity waves are gravity waves, they are just a lowered frequency. 3 other sources within this thread detail rf transmitters creating gravity waves or modifying gravity waves.
B) meridional circulation is modified by gravity waves. This does not require me. It is documented and sourced at least 3 times in this thread and I have multiple other papers that discuss this coupling.
It pretty much follows this way for points A-E.
I agree that my method of conveying the information is less than stellar, but the evidence is there for every single point.
The information is not mine. It is documented in dozens of atmospheric studies.
For instance. A) Acoustic gravity waves are discussed at length within the HAARP published study in which acoustic gravity waves are created by rf heating.
This is not my claim. It does not require me. It is discussed in the scientific literature. ....
You said that there was "THIS THREAD has given academic evidence" (my caps) - so which posts?
And if wish to resile from that particular statement, then how about links to some of the papers in the "scientific literature" you are relying on?
It is easy to make claims that something exists - but here you tend to get asked to show that it exists - you saying so is not enough. So please make at least some evidence to link to information you say exists.
While cleaning my teeth I look down and notice I have clean feet.
Have I just cleaned my feet with my toothbrush? Well, my teeth are clean, and my feet are clean, so the evidence that I did do so is plain to see. Do you want a picture of my feet?
Well, I'm busy right now, so it will have to be later...
Is this irrelevant to this thread?
No, actually, it isn't.
“I mean a man whose hopes and aims may sometimes lie (as most men's sometimes do, I dare say) above the ordinary level, but to whom the ordinary level will be high enough after all if it should prove to be a way of usefulness and good service leading to no other. All generous spirits are ambitious, I suppose, but the ambition that calmly trusts itself to such a road, instead of spasmodically trying to fly over it, is of the kind I care for.”
― Charles Dickens, Bleak House
Now, I agree with this. It's also not irrelevant...
I'm not personally looking for evidence - if you mean what would convince me, it would be an explanation or demonstration for how actions in a less dense medium can transfer energy into an increasingly denser medium, without using words or concepts I don't understand.
While it is very possible that you have posted this information already and it's flown completely over my head due to my lack of discernment in things of a scientific nature, the likely-hood of it being missed by more informed others on here is remote.
While you should primarily work on convincing the more scientifically literate of your case, the less informed audience is also someone you should be able to communicate the concept to.
I am just enough informed to know that you are pushing a hypothesis that may not actually conform to earthly physics as we know it.
So far it seem the consensus from those with greater understanding than I is "I don't think that means what you think it means."
You do post nice pictures though (of known and explained phenomena).
I gotta go with Pete on this one, if you've made a point, I cant figure out what it is. I've never studied this HAARP issue and from what I can see in the short time I've been following this post, whatever the point is, its not making any sense yet.
This thread has given academic evidence that;
A) rf transmitters create acoustic gravity waves and can modify and change wave breaking and wave-wave interactions.
B) Gravity waves exert a very significant effect on the meridional circulation and zonal wind flows (including the reversal of winds)
C) rf transmitters modify regions of the ionosphere and change plasma densities and cause chemical and molecular changes.
D) rf transmitters alter electrical dynamics from 50-350km.
E) weather is a dynically linked system. Modifying the ionosphere is modifying stratospheric and tropospheric weather and climate.
I'm going to link them one at a time.
Statement: Rf transmitters create and modify gravity waves.
Evidence:
A) Internal gravity waves also referred to as Internal Buoyancy Gravity waves (IBGW's) are created by HAARP.
The HAARP ionospheric program, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, thunderstorms, lightning (especially positive cloud to ground strokes), elves, sprites, tornadoes, hurricanes and even man made activities such as rocket launches including the space shuttle, are all sources of (IBGW's). Many times I've heard ham's lament that propagation was going to go to crap due to another space shuttle launch, in a sense they are correct. Much more research is needed on MF and LF radio wave propagation.
Internal Gravity Waves may be created as a result of seismic activity. There is experimental evidence that IGW may be excited by low frequency vibrations of the Earth’s surface, atmospheric heating, or the emission of gasses from the crust.
This process is illustrated in Figure 3-2, showing that forced ion acoustic waves are
produced as the “low-frequency beat waves” of streaming electron-excited electron
plasma waves. The shaded areas in the wave-vector (k) space represent the distri-
bution of the electron plasma waves. These electron plasma waves are expected to
have small propagation angles initially.
We report the first evidence of atmospheric gravity waves (AGWs) generated in the F2 region by high-power HF heating and subauroral polarization streams. Data come from the CHAMP and GRACE spacecraft overflying the HAARP heating facility. These observations facilitate a new method of studying the ionosphere-thermosphere coupling in a controlled fashion by using various HF-heating regimes. They also reveal the subauroral F2 region to be a significant source of substorm AGWs, in addition to the well-known auroral E region.
Atmospheric gravity waves are fluctuations of the neutral atmosphere, usually triggered by events that cause a lifting of localized regions of the atmosphere. In the lower atmosphere sources of gravity waves include severe weather systems (Georges, 1968), and winds blowing over mountains (Scorer, 1949).
Note, The underlined statement (above) refers to Atmospheric gravity waves being triggered by events that cause a lifting of localized regions of the atmosphere. This is a known capability of HAARP. Here is just one example of an experiment detailing ionospheric lifting.
In the noontime, the electron density decreases/increases in time in the region below/above a height at about
140 km, manifesting the change of the balance between the photoionization and the electron-ion recombination and the electron-oxygen dissociative attachment losses by the heating. In the nighttime, the ionosphere was lifted by 30 to 50 km through continuously upward expansion, resulting in the drop of the electron density in the
bottomside of the ionosphere in time.
This is just a recap of my first claim that rf transmitter facilities such as HAARP create and modify gravity waves. Are there any questions about how gravity waves are modified and created by artificially by atmospheric research facilities ?
No, but I have a comment or two.
These examples/sources refer mostly to gravity waves, most which them originate in the lower atmosphere, at or near Earth's surface.
None of them mention acoustic-gravity waves. Your original claim is about acoustic-gravity waves which you are incorrectly expressing as "acoustic gravity waves".
I agree that the majority of gravity waves appear to originate in the troposphere. I am looking at a study right now that appears to show that the shuttle does cause gravity waves as well. If I can pull the full article I will post it here as I am curious as to what altitude space shuttle created gravity waves occur.
Hi Cairenn,
That is coming. I have a new batch of research discussing weather effects and gravity waves and also dynamic coupling of weather from 110 km down into the troposphere.
Still, many here won't see the evidence of artificial weather modification.
Jazzy. That is a lot of fossil burning. Maybe it's only 11.7 billion tons.
I would say that fossil burning is an entirely different beast than tinkering with effects from 2 rf transmitters focused in the same location with a little accentuato of satellite energy beam action tossed in to 'see what she'll do'.
Fossil burning probably impacts both climate and weather. Which is to say, that I do not understand either weather or climate.
The rf transmitters are just adding in a little dollop of chaos, a little dissonante.
or is it a little accelerando? or is it a little bend? or is it a cambiare? or is it a col pugno?
Which is to say that the rf transmitter effects most closely resemble a tremolo.
Statement B is on the way. A few more pages of evidence to go. Statement B is critical and provides evidence of weather being dynamically coupled with gravity waves.
Carbon dioxide in the air ALWAYS impacts it. No "probably" about it. The only thing that affects this interaction is REMOVING IT. While it is present in the atmosphere, it acts as a VIRTUAL HEAT SOURCE.
It is geo-engineering's prime mover, and when intentional geo-engineering really begins on earth, its creation or removal will have to be strictly controlled to maintain earth's average temperature at pre-industrial levels, and hence its coastline at "sea level".
The rf transmitters are just adding in a little dollop of chaos, a little dissonante.
They most closely resemble the effects a flea has on an elephant. No matter how hard the flea bites, he just cannot chew through the elephant's hide. It is too thick. There is no effect at all.
(A bird of paradise removes the flea. Its feathers have an oily sheen).
This thread has given academic evidence that;
A) rf transmitters create acoustic gravity waves and can modify and change wave breaking and wave-wave interactions.
B) Gravity waves exert a very significant effect on the meridional circulation and zonal wind flows (including the reversal of winds)
C) rf transmitters modify regions of the ionosphere and change plasma densities and cause chemical and molecular changes.
D) rf transmitters alter electrical dynamics from 50-350km.
E) weather is a dynically linked system. Modifying the ionosphere is modifying stratospheric and tropospheric weather and climate.
Are you confusing meteorological gravity waves with magnetic gravitational waves? They are two completely different terms. Meteorological gravity wave is defined as movement of an air mass and a gravitational wave would be what keeps the planets in the orbit they are in. It seems you are combining the two as one...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wavehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_wave
The key question is how much the frequency antics of the research facilities is modifying weather. I plan to address that very specifically.
Hi Justanairlinepilot,
I posted very near the beginning of this thread and I think I actually utilized the term gravitational. The reference material and all links are 100% about gravity waves. The focus is on gravity waves impact on dynamic coupling from the mesosphere down to weather on the ground.
The below diagram is just a general overview of the dynamics involved. The claim is being made that rf transmitters are creating and modifying gravity waves which impacts terrestrial weather.
Statement B- Gravity waves exert a very significant effect on meridional circulation, zonal wind flows, transport of chemicals, and weather.
Right at the top, we'll look at the dynamic coupling between gravity waves and tornadoes. Timely after the 2 Oklahoma twisters.
new research suggests that gravity waves passing over storms can spin up highly dangerous and damaging tornados… Suddenly gravity waves become very important and may help to forecast where and when tornados may strike…Far from gravity waves being a mild curiosity, it seems that they have a large part to play with other atmospheric dynamics down here on the ground.
Breaking of waves in the mesosphere (~50-90 km altitude) drives the pole-to pole circulation that links the cold summer mesopause and the strong down-welling that occurs in the polar vortex in the winter hemisphere. This downward motion is a potentially important part of the process by which solar activity can influence regional climate, via the transport of ozone-destroying chemical species following geomagnetic activity. WACCM (Whole Atmosphere Coupled Community Model) simulations have suggested that a change in the altitude of gravity wave breaking effects the peak meridional circulation, the vertical transport of important chemical constituents and their mixing ratios. Gravity waves that penetrate into the thermosphere influence the density of ionosphere and may have an upward impact on geomagnetic storms and the resultant space weather effects. Other sources of gravity waves in middle and upper atmosphere in the Polar Regions are the polar vortex itself and the geomagnetic activity. ... Recent work has shown that turbulence is the dominant mechanism behind PMWE and it is highly characteristic of gravity wave breaking.
In the winter hemisphere the opposite effect occurs; the eastward stratospheric jet filters
out eastward propagating waves, enabling westward waves to break in the mesosphere. This produces a westward
jet with insufficient angular momentum, and therefore air moves toward the pole where it
displaces air downward. This results in a pole-to-pole circulation. The vertical motion of air in the summer hemisphere results in adiabatic cooling as the
air parcel is expanded. This results in the cold summer mesosphere while the downward
motion of air near the winter pole results in adiabatic compression and hence heating.
Note in the above that the downward return of air results in a pole to pole circulation and that westward waves are involved in this process. Artificial gravity waves, artificial changes in wave breaking and artificial wave-wave interactions will effect this natural process.
and;
Gravity waves have a significant dynamic effect in the mesosphere. In particular, they drive the mesospheric circulation and are the reason that the summer polar mesosphere is cooler than the winter polar mesosphere. This thesis examines whether the effects of gravity waves are largely determined by filtering effects which allow only gravity waves with certain properties to propagate into the atmosphere. The filtering of gravity waves above Scott Base, Antarctica is examined using a radiosonde derived gravity wave source function, an MF-radar derived mesospheric gravity wave climatology, and a model derived filtering function. Least squares fitting of the source function and filtering function to the observed mesospheric gravity wave climatology allows us to determine which gravity wave phase velocities and propagation direction are likely to be present in the mesosphere and the relative importance of filtering and sources in this region. It is concluded the blocking of eastward gravity waves
is important in winter and westward waves in summer.
Even only fifteen years ago, many scientists regarded gravity waves as simply idle curiosities. Many people considered that they had no real impact on atmospheric motions at any sort of important scale. This attitude has now changed.
Gravity waves carry momentum and energy between different points in the atmosphere. If a gravity wave is generated at a source region (e.g. a mountain) and dissipates somewhere else, this amounts to a transfer of energy and momentum from the first point to the second. When energy and momentum are deposited in the dissipation region, they can alter the mean flow. Meteorologists have realized in the last decade that computer models are not always very good at predicting mean winds, or making good forecasts, and they have now realized that part of the reason for this is that they had not been including gravity wave generation and dissipation in their models. A considerable amount of effort is being turned towards proper parametrization of gravity waves in meteorological models.
In the upper regions of the atmosphere, especially the stratosphere and mesosphere, gravity waves have huge effects. For example, in the mesosphere it has been found that by including gravity waves in computer models, the directions of the winds have in some cases even been reversed relative to the expected wind directions deduced without inclusion of gravity waves! The values deduced with gravity waves included agree better with observations than do the older predictions.
Atmospheric gravity waves are normally generated through the process of vertical movement of air-parcel forced by convections, front activity and topography in the troposphere and wind shear instability in the mesosphere (Holton,1992; Alexander et al., 1997; Fritts and Alexander, 2003). It is produced under a balance of the buoyancy and gravityforces. Once the oscillation is generated, it propagates horizontally and vertically transporting energy and momentum.As a result, the wind, density and temperature fields are perturbed.
(following text from pg 2) Rottger (1973) first presented wave-like structures of the equatorial Spread F irregularities and called attention to its possible relation with the lower atmosphere dynamics.
(following text from pg 8) It is known that the gravity wave activity in the mesosphere is strongly related to
meteorological activities, such as local cloud convections, inter tropical convection zone and squall lines
in the equatorial region. Therefore, as a first step, any similarity on the characteristics of the equatorial Spread F and mesospheric gravity waves should be investigated with a special attention.
Gravity waves carry momentum and energy between different points in the atmosphere. If a gravity wave is generated at a source region (e.g. a mountain) and dissipates somewhere else, this amounts to a transfer of energy and momentum from the first point to the second. When energy and momentum are deposited in the dissipation region, they can alter the mean flow. Meteorologists have realized in the last decade that computer models are not always very good at predicting mean winds, or making good forecasts, and they have now realized that part of the reason for this is that they had not been including gravity wave generation and dissipation in their models. A considerable amount of effort is being turned towards proper parametrization of gravity waves in meteorological models. In the upper regions of the atmosphere, especially the stratosphere and mesosphere, gravity waves have huge effects. For example, in the mesosphere it has been found that by including gravity waves in computer models, the directions of the winds have in some cases even been reversed relative to the expected wind directions deduced without inclusion of gravity waves! The values deduced with gravity waves included agree better with observations than do the older predictions.
Temperature maximum at the stratopause around 50km altitude
The earth's atmosphere has a complex thermal structure in the vertical. The maximum around the altitude of 50 km is considered to be due to solar radiation absorption by ozone and does not exist on Mars or Venus. This maximum persists even in the polar night when solar radiation is absent.
Temperature minimum at the mesopause around 100km altitude
Temperature in summer is much colder than in winter in the polar mesopause region, although the solar radiation has a maximum in summer and there is no solar radiation in winter.
These unique features of thermal structure in the polar region are closely related to the global circulation driven by waves (Rossby waves, gravity waves, tides).
The following textbook excerpt details ozone processes and stratospheric - tropospheric coupling with a fair amount on gravity waves. This is another source that pretty much limits their analysis to stratopause-troposphere coupling.
(2) Wave breaking -- Wave dissipation or damping also occurs by a process referred to as wave breaking. Much like ocean waves breaking on the beach, atmospheric waves grow to large amplitudes and break, thereby causing rapid meridional mixing. This process is particularly evident in the winter middle latitudes. Waves propagate vertically from the troposphere into the stratosphere, and then equatorward into the subtropics. As the wave moves upward, the density of the atmosphere decreases, and the strength of the wave consequently grows. This eventually leads to wave "breaking," in which air parcels undergo large and rapid latitudinal excursions causing them to undergo strong, irreversible, meridional mixing. As a result, material (i.e., long-lived tracers) becomes thoroughly mixed throughout the subtropics and lower middle latitudes.
The strength of the mixing is directly related to the strength of the waves (see Fig. 6.17). This means that greater mixing occurs during the northern midwinter than during the southern midwinter. The well-mixed region occurs on the equatorward side of the polar night jet. This is the "surf zone" that we discussed in Section 2.4.2-b, where the name "surf zone" is used as an analogy to the surf breaking on a beach. Such ocean wave breaking is characterized by overturning and mixing of water. The wave dissipation occurs as energy is transferred from the larger wave scales to smaller wave scales (finer features), which are thermally dissipated. The planetary wave breaking generally occurs when a wave propagates into a region where the wave speed matches the mean flow.
Wave breaking processes not only occur for stratospheric planetary waves, but also occur for very small scale gravity waves. Gravity waves (see Chapter 2, section 5.3.2) result from the buoyancy of the atmosphere. Breaking gravity waves are important in the mesosphere where gravity wave amplitudes become large enough to generate convective instability, overturning, and rapid vertical mixing of air parcels. These gravity waves are also thought to decelerate the mean flow in the upper stratosphere and mesosphere, and hence, also affect the mean circulation.
4.2 Wave Transport
As discussed previously, wave growth and dissipation generates meridional mass transport by two processes. First, the Brewer-Dobson circulation results from these waves because of the transfer of easterly momentum and energy via waves from the troposphere to the stratosphere, which act as a break on the westerly polar night jet, creating first a radiative and then a mass imbalance. Secondly, meridional exchange of mass occurs as waves dissipate in the atmosphere, producing a meridional stirring of air. This stirring or mixing tends to occur approximately on isentropic surfaces. Returning to Figure 6.17, these two processes are schematically shown by the white arrow (the Brewer-Dobson circulation) and the double-arrowed red line (mixing).
4.2.1 Wave Mixing -- Planetary or synoptic scale waves can cause irreversible changes in ozone concentration. Figure 6.18 shows northern hemisphere ozone mixing ratios from a 3-dimensional transport model on the 417 K (144°C or 291°F) isentropic surface for December 29, 1991 (left) and December 31, 1991 (right). The high ozone levels over the polar region are within the polar vortex which persists throughout the winter. These high concentrations are maintained by the combination of the downward component of the Brewer-Dobson circulation, which brings ozone-rich air downward and poleward, and wind patterns which isolate the vortex from middle latitude air. Between the tropics (black-purple colored values) and the polar vortex (red-orange colors), there is a tremendous amount of structure in the ozone field, similar to the stirring patterns in a paint bucket with two colors. It is here that wave mixing occurs, stirring up air parcels and redistributing trace gas constituents.
A particular event is revealed in Figure 6.18 that occurs over this two day period. Large changes in ozone occur over eastern Scandinavia as a wave distorts the polar vortex and moves a tongue of high ozone air over the region. As the shape of the polar vortex continues to change (not shown), repeated penetrations of tongues of low ozone middle latitude air are seen entering into and out of the polar vortex. As low ozone air moves into the vortex, high ozone air moves south out of the vortex and into the middle latitudes. This exchange of air mixes up ozone amounts in the middle latitudes. Eventually, as the year progresses, a climax is reached when the vortex completely breaks apart in the spring period.Once the vortex breaks, it will not reform until the fall. As the vortex breaks up, low ozone air is mixed with high ozone air. The polar region considerably warms, which is why we refer to this breakup as the final warming.
4.2.2 The Stratospheric Surf Zone -- As previously noted, the stratosphere is divided into three latitudinal regions between the equator and the pole. The tropics, the polar vortex, and the midlatitude "surf zone". Figure 6.18 shows these regions distinctly, with low ozone tropical air, high ozone polar air inside the polar vortex, and the complicated fine structure of high and low ozone air mixing inside the middle latitude surf zone region. (See sections 2.4.2-b and 4.1.2-c for overview of surf zone terminology.) 4.2.3 Wave Influence On Mean Circulation -- These planetary wave induced ozone changes that are illustrated in Figure 6.18 create a high degree of ozone variability across the globe, but this variability does not contribute to the global average of ozone on time scales of months or longer. Rather, the global average of ozone is primarily driven by the Brewer-Dobson circulation. This circulation decreases ozone levels in the tropics by lifting low ozone from low altitudes (see Figure 6.03) and increases ozone in middle to high latitudes by pulling high ozone down from higher altitudes. This circulation produces the observed ozone gradient of elevated extratropical latitude stratospheric ozone and low tropical stratospheric ozone. Mixing by waves acts to flatten out this gradient. These wave events are continually pulling low ozone air from the tropics into the extratropical region and high ozone extratropical air into the tropical region.
Figure 6.18 shows thin filaments of high ozone air from the polar vortex that are pulled into the middle latitudes over central Asia and the Eastern Pacific. These filaments get thinner and elongate with time. Eventually, they are irreversibly mixed into the middle latitude surf zone, never to retreat back into the polar vortex. The net effect of this irreversible process is to weaken the latitudinal (meridional) gradient of ozone between the polar vortex and the middle latitudes and the tropics that was created by the Brewer-Dobson circulation.
(8.1) Around twenty years ago, gravity wave effects on the zonal mean winds in the mesosphere and lower thermo- sphere were widely appreciated. There gravity wave zonal-mean forces cause reversals of the zonal mean jets and drive a mean meridional transport circulation that leads to a warm winter mesopause, a cold summer mesopause, and a reversal of the latitudinal temper- ature gradient expected in the absence of wave driv- ing [Lindzen, 1981; Holton, 1982; 1983; Garcia and Solomon, 1985]. Gravity wave effects at slightly lower altitudes such as driving the mesopause semiannual os- cillation (SAO) [Dunkerton, 1982b] and quasibiennial oscillation (QBO) [Lindzen and Holton, 1968] had been proposed, but were not generally accepted. Since that time, gravity wave effects at even lower altitudes, such as mountain wave drag effects on the circulation in the troposphere, have become widely accepted and are now included via parameterization in most global models to provide a drag force on the jet stream at upper lev- els [Palmer et al., 1986; McFarlane, 1987; Miller et al., 1989]. Most recently, direct gravity wave effects in the stratosphere are indicated. These effects include
contributions to driving the tropical QBO.
and
Gravity waves almost certainly play a role in driving the prominent QBO and SAO equatorial wind oscilla- tions. Quantifying that role remains illusive, however, until more complete knowledge is attained of the mo- mentum flux spectrum of tropical wave motions rang- ing from planetary-scale to small-scale gravity waves. Similar lack of quantification of gravity wave fluxes and other gravity wave properties at high latitudes also hin- ders our ability to quantify their role in extratropical processes such as sudden stratospheric warmings and the wave-driven transport circulation.
and
hrough the concept of “downward control” of the mean-meridional circulation by wave-induced mean zonal forces [Haynes et al., 1991], Garcia and Boville [1994] stress that the winter mesospheric gravity wave forcing can have ef- fects down to 30 km in the high latitude stratosphere that can help to alleviate the “cold pole” problem that plagues GCM studies of the winter stratosphere. Hamil- ton [1997], however, also suggests that gravity wave forcing at stratospheric altitudes, although smaller in magnitude, is also important to the winter circulation. The role of gravity wave forcing in sudden strato- sphere warming (SSW) events has been examined in several global model studies. Lawrence [1997] compared effects of Hines and Fritts and Lu parameterization on
the winter stratosphere.
and
Every gravity wave parameterization in use has been designed to give the summer eastward and winter westward momentum forcing in the mesosphere that drives the pole-to-pole residual circulation (section 8.1). This role for gravity waves in the mesosphere was an idea developed decades ago [Lindzen, 1973; 1981; Holton, 1982] that has more recently been validated by full GCM studies [Roble and Ridley, 1994; Norton and Thuburn, 1996; Hamilton, 1997; Manzini and McFarlane, 1998].
Gravity waves have a significant dynamic effect in the mesosphere. In particular, they drive the mesospheric circulation and are the reason that the summer polar mesosphere is cooler than the winter polar mesosphere. This thesis examines whether the effects of gravity waves are largely determined by filtering effects which allow only gravity waves with certain properties to propagate into the atmosphere. The filtering of gravity waves above Scott Base, Antarctica is examined using a radiosonde derived gravity wave source function, an MF-radar derived mesospheric gravity wave climatology, and a model derived filtering function. Least squares fitting of the source function and filtering function to the observed mesospheric gravity wave climatology allows us to determine which gravity wave phase velocities and propagation direction are likely to be present in the mesosphere and the relative importance of filtering and sources in this region. It is concluded the blocking of eastward gravity waves
is important in winter and westward waves in summer.
Going to have to have a part II for STATEMENT B focusing on excerpts and links that are more concise and direct.
Clearly gravity waves impact circulation and weather. Gravity waves and secondary waves can propagate downwards. Wave-wave interactions and altered wave breaking and artificially created gravity waves are going to modify natural weather patterns.
A large number of things may cause gravity waves (not to be confused with gravitational waves, the ripples in space-time), including intense disturbances caused by storm systems, a sudden change in jet stream location or wind shear. The strong oscillation will then travel for hundreds or even thousands of miles.
From your own source, no mention of HAARP. I still fail to see how HAARP can have anything to do with these. It is like a fly landing on an iceberg, it has such a tiny effect. Wind shear has been known for years to have an effect on tornadoes. Just like a split in the Jet Stream will have
opcorn:
