Contrails, Gravity Waves, and HAARP

electrojet

New Member
Here is a wacky one, contrails can identify gravity waves. The posting identifies 2 sources but does not mention that our Sun can squeeze the ionosphere and that the ionosphere has been observed to reverberate. This coupling of space and earth weather is not well understood.

Investigations approved for the masses;http://blog.eiscat3d.org/2013/02/vacancy-arctic-phd-studentship-in.html?m=1


From this Phd job vacancy advertisement,



So EICSCAT is stating that antenna arrays are for investigating gravity (atmospheric buoyancy waves) These subtle gravitational changes within the dynamic system effect weather (circulation patterns) It is already established that atmospheric heaters such as HAARP / EISCAT can create and sustain a plasma in the upper atmosphere. See, http://www.nrl.navy.mil/media/news-...ificial-ionospheric-plasma-clouds-using-haarp
Transporting energy into the atmosphere has been demonstrated. Weather modification as reality. The dynamics of gravity waves is potentially climate modification when it is coupled with plasma creation. The 2 links when examined carefully reveal that these ionospheric research arrays influence gravity wave breaking and dynamics that including weather and space weather. This makes me pine for the simplicity of cloud seeding.


For the moment, lets bring the Phd job posting into a more mundane examination that ties in with contrails. Ripple clouds can identify gravity waves. In atmospheric conditions suitable for contrail formation where clouds are not present, contrails can reveal gravity waves. These waves are being studied to better understand vertical coupling processes.


Is the job posting discussing gravity as in torsion field dynamics ? Very interesting if so, as this physics model is not embraced (officially) Atmospheric waves... The investigation of gravity is and will continue to be very politically explosive.

The Plasma creation / atmospheric moderation and weather modification are linked or coupled.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The gravity waves being discussed are purely mechanical waves in the atmosphere, not waves in the gravitational field. They are not subtle. It's not an investigation of gravity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_wave


I'm not really following the point of your post.
 
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electrojet

New Member
Hi Mick,


The breaking of waves in the mesophere can effect circulation of weather systems.
Ionospheric heaters modify the mesophere through heating effects / plasma creation. This creates changes in weather. These are not my claims, that is why the 2 links have been provided. I can link several dozens more for altering the ionosphere at various altitudes from the mesophere up to 170km.
Clearly cloud seeding is not the cutting edge of weather modification.
The ripple wave picture is great btw.



The point is also being made that contrails could identify these waves in the atmosphere in conditions where clouds are not present.


Is ball lightning hot ? If plasma is rather cold, how does this relate to the current model of physics with regards to gravity?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So you think HAARP can create gravity waves?

Can you provide some direct evidence that HAARP can create a wave in the mesosphere?

Note the link you provide above says that gravity waves are generated in the troposphere.
 

electrojet

New Member
Here is an available link for Simultaneous observation of ionospheric plasma bubbles and mesospheric gravity waves during the SpreadFEx Campaign.

http://www.ann-geophys.net/27/1477/2009/angeo-27-1477-2009.pdf

The verbage of the the above link is less clear than it could be. The experiment seems to imply that it only observed the coupling between plasma bubbles and gravity waves yet tosses out the word 'seeding' in another section.

Still proof of artificial weather creation is established. A google search for 'artificial ionospheric bubble' will return an avalanche of experiments detailing plasma creation, modifying natural ionospheric bubbles and creating new bubbles. So the coupling (i.e. weather modification) is established scientifically.

HAARP can effect gravity waves thus altering weather. Can HAARP create gravity waves? I don't want to say without the evidence linked and will put in the links in a day or 7. Typically the language used is a bit more constrained so the articles will have to be stacked and I don't have them organized currently.

Here's a springer abstract about modification, http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02677833?LI=true

I have suggested that contrails may be able to identify gravity waves where clouds are not present. This says nothing controversial about contrails at all, just sort of an incidental benefit that they may provide for scientists who are into GW's. I have seen statements that gravity waves can be difficult to detect which is interesting for reasons similar to why ball lightning is so interesting.

Blessings, Bryan
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I have suggested that contrails may be able to identify gravity waves where clouds are not present. This says nothing controversial about contrails at all, just sort of an incidental benefit that they may provide for scientists who are into GW's. I have seen statements that gravity waves can be difficult to detect which is interesting for reasons similar to why ball lightning is so interesting.

You are confusing gravity waves (enormous movements of millions of tons of air) with gravitational waves (ripples in the curvature of spacetime)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_wave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave

Can you actually quote something that says that HAARP can affect gravity waves? How much can it affect them and how?
 

electrojet

New Member
Hi Mick,


The links clearly establish that gravity wave breaking in the mesophere (in the provided link) effects circulation patterns.
and that "

HAARP can, has and is altering the ionosphere and the density of the ionosphere. this altering of the ionosphere through heating, plasma bubble creation effects gravity wave breaking. This is scientifically show that this link is established. This is startling to anyone that thinks weather modification is only seen through cloud seeding.

It does not matter if I were confusing gravity waves with gravitic waves.


There is ample evidence that the currently accepted (mainstream) paradigm misses the mark. Wiki is a great source for the accepted model of physics. There is a great amount of science though that does not align with current theories. The new theories are politically sensitive (explosive actually) Cloaking technology, ball lightning and HAARP does not agree with the current paradigm.


The quote that you are looking for is not the claim illustrated in the links. HAARP effects the ionosphere which is linked to climatic circulation systems and buoyancy waves. If one (gravity waves or the ionosphere) is altered the other is effected. This has been observed both with and without artificial innervation. This is being done now. It makes me think of a farside cartoon where brain surgeons are getting their kicks by electrically stimulating the brain and watching the patients leg raise and lower. The how that you ask about is in the links provided, the how much and what are the results are great questions. I have a contact (atmospheric physicist and expert on dusty plasmas) who I have emailed for his insights.


If the wiki links you provided were actually correct or complete, HAARP, EISCAT and the other ever increasing arrays would not be interesting, HAARP would not be able to do very much.


I will post more on ionospheric research and atmospheric alterations as this IS weather modification. It can be shown that HAARP and other arrays have very significant effects on the ionosphere that travel great distances and that there is a multiplication of power. If you are interested in this I suggest reading this as a pretext, Loeb and Meek's "The mechanism of the Electric Spark". It demonstrates this multiplication effect scientifically.
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015006425576;skin=mobile#page/iii/mode/1up Looks like the link may be mobile phone specific in which case just http://babel.hathotrust.org Then enter The mech. of the electric spark Loeb and Meek.
Abundant blessings.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
HAARP can, has and is altering the ionosphere and the density of the ionosphere. this altering of the ionosphere through heating, plasma bubble creation effects gravity wave breaking. This is scientifically show that this link is established. This is startling to anyone that thinks weather modification is only seen through cloud seeding.

Where? Quote it.

You quote says that gravity waves can affect the ionosphere. It did not say that altering the ionosphere can affect the lower atmosphere.

Please don't include Bible quotes unless they are relevant.
 

electrojet

New Member
Hi Mick,

This is just a quick reply. The EISCAT job listing detailed these two points,
from;http://blog.eiscat3d.org/2013/02/vac...ip-in.html?m=1

In cases where atmospheric facilities modify the ionosphere this effects the breaking of waves.

Internal gravity waves, scintillation and TID's are all possible from ionospheric moderation. see http://k1ttt.net/technote/kn4lf/kn4lf8.html Where it is stated that
note that IBGW's refer to Internal buoyancy/gravity waves (IBGW's)

Here is a link noting the 'perturburation' seen during a space shuttle launch in 2009http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm10/fm10-sessions/fm10_SA51E.html.

There is difficulty in finding the direct language that you are asking for.

Here is a link for an ionospheric experiment. http://www.kirtland.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123310746

The point that was originally made from reading the ph'd job posting for EISCAT and the stable plasma experiment link is that ionospheric changes effect the breaking of gravity waves. The breaking of gravity waves is linked with circulation of weather systems.

In this diagram, the H (or energy propagation) is changed by ionospheric heating. By changing H, there is a resultant change in the breaking of gravity waves.

gravity wave dynamics.gif lol, re-size please.

Any way I will look for links that more clearly define how phased arrays can influence weather.

Peace,

Bryan
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
Bryan, I can't help but notice that your linked sources don't support your statements.
The EISCAT job listing detailed these two points,
from;http://blog.eiscat3d.org/2013/02/vac...ip-in.html?m=1

In cases where atmospheric facilities modify the ionosphere this effects the breaking of waves.
There's nothing in the quote above which leads to the conclusion that "where atmospheric facilities modify the ionosphere this affects the breaking of waves." Nor can I find anything in the page that does so. It says that "Gravity waves that penetrate into the thermosphere influence the density of ionosphere and may have an upward impact on geomagnetic storms and the resultant space weather effects." An upward effect - the atmosphere affecting the ionosphere, not the other way around.

Internal gravity waves, scintillation and TID's are all possible from ionospheric moderation. see http://k1ttt.net/technote/kn4lf/kn4lf8.html Where it is stated that
note that IBGW's refer to Internal buoyancy/gravity waves (IBGW's)
Once again, your source seems to be saying that terrestrial and atmospheric disturbances can impact the ionosphere, not the other way around.

Here is a link noting the 'perturburation' seen during a space shuttle launch in 2009http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm10/fm10-sessions/fm10_SA51E.html.
Same thing here. "Rocket launches are known to produce infrasonic pressure waves that propagate into the ionosphere where coupling between electrons and neutral particles induces fluctuations in ionospheric electron density observable in GPS measurements. We have detected ionospheric perturbations following the launch of space shuttle Atlantis on 11 May 2009 using an array of continually operating GPS stations across the Southeastern coast of the United States and in the Caribbean."

So rocket launches affect the ionosphere. How does this lead to the conclusion that alterations of the ionosphere by HAARP can influence the weather?

There is difficulty in finding the direct language that you are asking for.

Here is a link for an ionospheric experiment. http://www.kirtland.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123310746
Is there anything about that experiment which supports your point?

The point that was originally made from reading the ph'd job posting for EISCAT and the stable plasma experiment link is that ionospheric changes effect the breaking of gravity waves. The breaking of gravity waves is linked with circulation of weather systems.

In this diagram, the H (or energy propagation) is changed by ionospheric heating. By changing H, there is a resultant change in the breaking of gravity waves.

View attachment 2212

Your image is taken from this page about gravity waves. There's nothing in there saying that the ionospheric heating by HAARP affects "H" or any other variable in the diagram. Where is the evidence that it does?
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
This paragraph in that page on "Buoyancy (gravity) waves in the atmosphere" linked to by Belfry describes some of the labels in the diagram.

The underlining is mine as well as the additional explanation in square parenthases.

At the point "A", the corrugations will be moving upward with increasing time, forcing the air in this region up and forward. Thus the air particles will achieve a velocity component w' which is upward, and a forward component u'. This will "push" the air along the line of the purple arrow shown sloping up and to the right. As a result, the air will be somewhat compressed, increasing the pressure along this line (indicated by the grey sloping region) so this whole grey area will be a region of high pressure [labeled H]. Conversely, at the regions indicated by "B", the corrugations will appear to be "falling away", so the air in this region will also fall. Hence the w' and u' air-velocity components here will be downward and to the left. At the same time the air will "spread out" along the grey broken lines, resulting in a lowering of pressure. Thus the broken grey lines will be regions of low pressure [labelled L].

So, I don't think you have understood this diagram at all. H does not mean energy propagation!

It seems that you are not reading and understanding your references well enough, and you are getting yourself into trouble.

You are in a hole. Now, stop digging.
 

electrojet

New Member
Hi Belfrey.

The phd job posting for EISCAT is not intended as disclosure for weather modification, therefore it requires very close reading at exactly what is being studied.
I do not doubt that I have not clearly brought to light the implication of what is being stated in a rather backhanded way. For one thing, the paragraph in it's entirety is beneficial for more clearly seeing the coupling that is being studied includes a wider range of gravity waves than just the process of waves moving up into the ionosphere. Please read both paragraphs and if you are like me, read it 11 times slowly.
So in the above 2 paragraphs EISCAT is very keen to study the dynamics (moving both upwards AND downwards) of the various layers of the atmosphere, the space - earth weather relationship. It notes the northern latitude that includes gravity waves that penetrate from the top or are generated in the mid regions (auroral zone, geomagnetic activity and polar vortex)

It also discusses
So from this statement turbulence, polar mesophere winter echoes and gravity wave breaking are all dynamically linked.

Belfrey, I think that you read this link too quickly http://k1ttt.net/technote/kn4lf/kn4lf8.html Where it is stated that the HAARP ionospheric program is a source of (IBGW's) Mick had specifically asked if HAARP can create gravity waves.

At this point there may be a pause as the statement is that HAARP can cause gravity waves. This rather simplifies the claim that HAARP can modify weather systems. (very large scale systems) It is also time to see if this guy's statement is backed up by any other documentation.
which is from //www.ssg.group.shef.ac.uk/semep/index.php?wp6 IGW's being excited (altered) by atmospheric heating is a capability of the Son, EISCAT, HAARP, ARECIBO and other arrays. As soon as I can I will add more links that show gravity waves being created, or modified from focused transmitters. There is more research that points to the same conclusion, just have to get a Wiley library free pass or open up the Russian research.

Gravity waves = weather effects on earth The space shuttle blurb was linked simply as a counter point to the claim that the shuttle and HAARP can create IBGW's. That blurb was not very thorough and I probably should not have linked it at all.

The plasma link is related to gravity wave breaking, and evidence of atmospheric heating.

Re; the gravity wave model it should be looked at as an illustration. My description of it was wrong, Thanks Ross. I can certainly utilize better graphics. Unless you can debunk gravity waves being created by phased array transmitters or modified transmitters it doesn't matter if I didn't correctly identify the dynamics. I am going to merge a similar graph showing actual altitudes with another graph of an AIM mirror stuck right in the middle of it. Both graphs will correlate the altitude to actual studies / experiments.

Mick you stated that gravity waves don't break in the ionosphere. This link details wave breaking at an altitude of approximately 100 km. http://nldr.library.ucar.edu/repository/assets/osgc/OSGC-000-000-011-179.pdf
HAARP can influence the ionosphere and the region just below the ionosphere. It appears Gravity waves can be created by HAARP. Gravity wave breaking can be influenced by lifting and heating of the ionosphere. HAARP can heat the atmosphere below the ionosphere. I will post how low HAARP can cause significant effects next and future posts. file:///C:\DOCUME~1\KIMBER~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.gif

This is related to PMWE and turbulence
[FONT=&quot]
Content from page 5 of[/FONT][FONT=&quot] http://www.irf.se/upatm/epubs/PMWE_perth.pdf[/FONT]
image altitude and temp.jpg

Bryan

"Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons." - Richard Buckminster Fuller
 

solrey

Senior Member.
The ionosphere is not dense enough for any gravity waves that originate in the ionosphere to be translated downward into the lower, denser part of the atmosphere. That's why the effect of gravity waves is strictly a bottom-up dynamic. The term "heat" in relation to HAARP "heating" the ionosphere is not really talking about a significant increase in temperature either, due to the extremely low density.

Electrojet, you simply have no idea what you're talking about, and that combined with your disrespect for higher education makes you sound [...]. Just sayin'.
 

solrey

Senior Member.
Here's a description of horizontal and vertical wave propagation in the ionosphere. Due to the low particle density, and increase in temperature with increasing altitude in the thermosphere, waves initiated within the ionosphere will tend toward propagating at a near horizontal direction. Kind of like being trapped between a rock and a hard place.

http://astraspace.net/research-deve...er-radar/classification-of-gravity-wavestids/
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Belfrey, I think that you read this link too quickly http://k1ttt.net/technote/kn4lf/kn4lf8.html Where it is stated that the HAARP ionospheric program is a source of (IBGW's) Mick had specifically asked if HAARP can create gravity waves.



Some guy making a passing mention of something does not make it so. The guy seems like a bit of an eccentric, well out of mainstream science.
Quote something that explain how HAARP creates gravity waves. Then explain how big they are, and how much they affect the weather, and over what timeframe.
 

electrojet

New Member
Hi Mick and Solrey,

The fact is that HAARP can alter the breaking of gravity waves and indeed create gravity waves. Mick, I pre-empted your charge. There is additional evidence for transmitter facilities creating gravity waves and the evidence will be provided. HAARP technology is not mainstream, so his eccentricity is expected. If Eastland had been married to the prevailing scientific paradigm, He would not have been capable of the developing the technology.

Solrey a genuine thank you for the link. This is correct gravity waves will be essentially horizontal. I also encourage you to look further into the properties of 'cold plasma' as well as the generation of waves and the outward flow of energy directions. The Es layer and artificial plasma layer also hold much importance. Let me ask you this, how do these transmitters alter the chemistry of the mesophere and the ionosphere and what are the resultant temperature changes?

Re; your comment on higher education, that is exactly my interest. Did you actually read Loeb and Meeks Mechanism of the Electric spark ? Can you explain the physics of this ? http://weatherquesting.com/ball-lightning.htm

Do you know where to even look to get closer to understanding this? That is 'higher' education. Dare to be naive Solrey, it is a very dynamic universe !

Bryan
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The fact is that HAARP can alter the breaking of gravity waves and indeed create gravity waves. Mick, I pre-empted your charge. There is additional evidence for transmitter facilities creating gravity waves and the evidence will be provided.

What's the actual evidence besides "this guy says so"?
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
those are not gravity waves..that is the HAARP facility on Prince Edwards Island. this is what Hi energy Radio frequency waves look like when cranked up with a million watts of power. There is also a facility on King Georges Island in the Shetland island chains off the coast of Antarctica that shows the EXACT same atmospheric waves and they last as long as they have power cranked up, they are not effected by wind currents and are static---FOR DAYS-- i have extensive satellite imagery proving that the waves you see are not from some wind current phenomenon but only occur when the Facility is turned on. Stop motion satellite imagery shows they turn these HAARP facilities on to coincide with heavy chemtrail spraying, the energy is directed at these aerosol clouds. You cannot debunk science with opinions, you must use science to do it. and there is no science that supports your claim of no HAARP, no Chemtrails. sorry but its true. Ignorance truly is bliss, and unfortunately i have learned that Knowledge truly is sorrow. Maybe your incurable ignorance is a blessing in disguise, i could believe that. Same reason they use blindfolds on fireing lines. More humane to murder them when they cant see it coming. they never really planned on people willingly blindfolding themsleves like you all have. Im sure they are forever grateful to you and your kind for what your doing here. "You will never see it coming"- Barak Inssien Obama
 

JFDee

Senior Member.
Is ist just me or does the "sources of (IBGW's)" part look like sloppy editing?
In the 'paper', other acronyms in parentheses were each preceded by the full term.

My impression is that the author is using "IBGW" as a catch-all for everything that disrupts HAM radio propagation. He may have included the HAARP program in a sloppy way. It's the only 'event' in the list which is not tied to the troposphere.

Maybe someone can ask him?
 

lotek

Active Member

Stopped reading. sources plz


erm nvm. "HAARP technology is not mainstream" yes it is, maybe not to you.... because its not your field of study.... because you are admittedly naive on the subject. We have several explanations for understanding ball lightening.... its not some mysterious thing.. ions, aerosol, magnetic hallucination, most videos are bags in the wind(hoaxes), the wax+foil+microwave trick is not ball lightening. theres probably several kinds of what looks to be the same thing but really is several phenomena.

what exactly does it have to do with this thread? nothing to do with haarp thats for sure.


http://skepdic.com/balllightning.html

http://phys.org/news/2012-10-mystery-ball-lightning.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070122-ball-lightning.html

please try again and stay on topic if youd like to talk about ball lightening make a thread about it in fortean phenomena and we would be happy to go into it further.
 

lotek

Active Member
those are not gravity waves..that is the HAARP facility on Prince Edwards Island. this is what Hi energy Radio frequency waves look like when cranked up with a million watts of power. There is also a facility on King Georges Island in the Shetland island chains off the coast of Antarctica that shows the EXACT same atmospheric waves and they last as long as they have power cranked up, they are not effected by wind currents and are static---FOR DAYS-- i have extensive satellite imagery proving that the waves you see are not from some wind current phenomenon but only occur when the Facility is turned on. Stop motion satellite imagery shows they turn these HAARP facilities on to coincide with heavy chemtrail spraying, the energy is directed at these aerosol clouds. You cannot debunk science with opinions, you must use science to do it. and there is no science that supports your claim of no HAARP, no Chemtrails.

post it. else your words have no value. substantiate it or your words have no meaning.

id like to know how you can see outside the visible spectrum with commercially available visible spectrum satellites.

You cannot debunk science with opinions, you must use science to do it. and there is no science that supports your claim
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Jun 15th 2012, Aqua Satellite PM, Prince Edwards Island
Feb 26th, 2013 Tera Satellite AM, King Georges Island - Shetland islands SW of S.America off the coast of Antarctica.
Feb 28th, 2013 Aqua Satellite PM, King Georges Island
Mar 4th, 2013 Tera satellite AM, King Georges island AND Elephant Island both turned on

these are all examples of HAARP in action, The energy they focus upwards propagates and travels for thousands of miles
I am currently scanning the Northern Hemi for HAARP locations. looking for the tell tale energy waves forced into the atmosphere.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Jun 15th 2012, Aqua Satellite PM, Prince Edwards Island
Feb 26th, 2013 Tera Satellite AM, King Georges Island - Shetland islands SW of S.America off the coast of Antarctica.
Feb 28th, 2013 Aqua Satellite PM, King Georges Island
Mar 4th, 2013 Tera satellite AM, King Georges island AND Elephant Island both turned on

these are all examples of HAARP in action, The energy they focus upwards propagates and travels for thousands of miles
I am currently scanning the Northern Hemi for HAARP locations. looking for the tell tale energy waves forced into the atmosphere.

And how can you tell these are not gravity waves?
 

lotek

Active Member
how? you have to divulge your methods and information if you expect anyone to take your information seriously. i hope you are not using google maps to do this. they openly alter anything of questionable importance....
 

FreiZeitGeist

Senior Member.
those are not gravity waves..that is the HAARP facility on Prince Edwards Island. this is what Hi energy Radio frequency waves look like when cranked up with a million watts of power.

One simple Question:

Where should be the Powerplant on Prince Edwards Island producing the power for the "Hi Energy Radio Station"?

... and how does Radio influeces the behavior of clouds?

they are not effected by wind currents and are static---FOR DAYS--

This is typical for a kind of Gravity-Waves, called "Lee Wave"

In meteorology, lee waves are atmospheric standing waves. The most common form is mountain waves, which are atmospheric internal gravity waves.

(...)


The vertical motion forces periodic changes in speed and direction of the air within this air current. They always occur in groups on the lee side of the terrain that triggers them. Usually a turbulent vortex, with its axis of rotation parallel to the mountain range, is generated around the first trough; this is called a rotor. The strongest lee waves are produced when the lapse rate shows a stable layer above the obstruction, with an unstable layer above and below

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_wave

The important factor for these kind of clouds is a mountain standing in a moisty wind. In Central-Europe around the Alpes this Effect is very common. So common that it has it´s own name, called "Föhn". Electrical Hair-Dryers are called "Fön" because of the popularity of this effect.

This Video explains the "Föhn" very simple:




and to our surprise...


Jun 15th 2012, Aqua Satellite PM, Prince Edwards Island
Feb 26th, 2013 Tera Satellite AM, King Georges Island - Shetland islands SW of S.America off the coast of Antarctica.
Feb 28th, 2013 Aqua Satellite PM, King Georges Island
Mar 4th, 2013 Tera satellite AM, King Georges island AND Elephant Island both turned on

.. all these islands have a (relative) high Mountain tipping into the mosty layers of the atmosphere. Exactly what to expect for lee waves (wich are a kind of Gravity waves)
 
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Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
You will also find these gravity waves in the lee of the sub-Antarctic islands of the Auckland Islands, Campbell Island and Macquarie Island.

Except for Macquarie Island these are completely uninhabited with little or no manmade structures or facilities.

It is the terrain that produces these waves in suitable meteorological conditions (which can last for several days as has already been noted by Unregistered).

Of course, the Southern Alps of the South Island will produce the same cloud forms.
 

electrojet

New Member
Here is a short excerpt that is fairly interesting. http://web.mit.edu/aeroastro/labs/spl/research_rezy.htm
In the second portion MIT looked at heating the ionosphere and then observing for resultant plasma disturbances during a period of quiet geomagnetic activity.

Here is the link for an artificial duct being created. http://spp.astro.umd.edu/SpaceWebProj/milikh/found/Formation%20of%20artificial%20ionospheric%20ducts.pdf

Probably not a new link for everyone. The reason for including it here is to determine what dynamic coupling effects occur relating to these artificial ducts.

-Bryan
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
Electrojet - Just to help clear things up for you, HAARP cannot affect gravity waves in any way. No human machine can have any significant effect on gravity waves at all.
If electrical devices of any sort were able to affect gravity at all then anyone could build a machine that either reduces or increases local gravity, and no-one has ever done that or observed it happen.
All HAARP does is heat a small area of the ionosphere for research. It can't be used usefully for anything else.
 

electrojet

New Member
Very interesting Billyzilla. I'm sure u won't mind if I don't take your word for it.

Gravity waves in the low and mid latitudes travel upwards initially. They then reflect downwards. If the reflecting layer is modified or perturbed, gravity waves and gravity wave breaking is effected. The literature is available that transmitters can cause upwelling of both the bottom side of the ionosphere as well as the top. Artificial upwelling and perturbations both effect gravity wave propagation. This is just based upon observing the publicly available research and experiments.

It is notable here that in 1977 there was not much excitement regarding the vertical coupling and dynamics of weather systems. See; http://www.jetp.ac.ru/cgi-bin/dn/e_046_03_0487.pdf

This is a long paper on gravity waves refreshingly well written. http://www.cora.nwra.com/~alexand/publications/GWfinal_preprint.pdf A study of 'auroral sources' and for weather modification in a dynamic system, actual artificial auroras and their implications (section 3.1 which simply states auroral) for transmitter effects will be forthcoming. Cascading ionization ! Fun stuff !
Also please examine artificial ducting with regards to influencing gravity waves. The above link discusses ducting issues in gravity wave propagation.

http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/~da...veyOfUpwellingIonEventCharacteristics_JGR.pdf

The documentation about injecting chemicals into the ionosphere is crazy cowboy science at its zenith!
Enjoy!

Bryan
 

solrey

Senior Member.
Billzilla, we're talking about buoyancy waves, commonly referred to as gravity waves. I think you're confusing that with gravitational waves, which you were absolutely right about, btw.

The documentation about injecting chemicals into the ionosphere is crazy cowboy science at its zenith!

Well if you describe that research as crazy cowboy science, hmmmm that might help explain why you don't seem to grok the fact that the density in the ionosphere is too low to have any affect on the troposphere below. The reason buoyancy (gravity) waves disperse as they do at higher altitudes is due to the rapidly decreasing density of the atmosphere. Something like 80% of the atmosphere is in the troposphere and the atmospheric pressure in the ionosphere is approaching zero. The idea that perturbations in the near vacuum of the ionosphere can affect the troposphere is like saying that the force of a gnat flying into an elephant can knock the elephant off it's feet... ain't gonna happen. The elephant however, can easily squash the gnat without even realizing it. This is why the vertical effect of buoyancy (gravity) waves is a one way street.

Oh, and we often get persistent lee waves east of the cascade crest as we had just a few days ago.
 

F4Jock

Senior Member.
Electrojet - Just to help clear things up for you, HAARP cannot affect gravity waves in any way. No human machine can have any significant effect on gravity waves at all.
If electrical devices of any sort were able to affect gravity at all then anyone could build a machine that either reduces or increases local gravity, and no-one has ever done that or observed it happen.
All HAARP does is heat a small area of the ionosphere for research. It can't be used usefully for anything else.
Hey Bill? Remember John Belushi's final rant in "Animal House?" Electrojet is on a roll. It's entertaining as hell even if it's not really factual. Let him go. Maybe he'll marry Mandy Pepperidge and become a Senator or discover a new branch of physics. Oh wait. He apparently already has.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
It is notable here that in 1977 there was not much excitement regarding the vertical coupling and dynamics of weather systems. See; http://www.jetp.ac.ru/cgi-bin/dn/e_046_03_0487.pdf

What is it you think that has to do with weather systems?

Creating plasma in hte ionosphere with radio waves IS something that is done - and even done by HAARP. From the HAARP FAQ:



This is a long paper on gravity waves refreshingly well written. http://www.cora.nwra.com/~alexand/publications/GWfinal_preprint.pdf A study of 'auroral sources' and for weather modification in a dynamic system, actual artificial auroras and their implications (section 3.1 which simply states auroral) for transmitter effects will be forthcoming

When do you think that might be? Your link is about measurement of characteristics of the waves and finding out more about them - nothing in there about weather modification that I can see.


Cascading ionization ! Fun stuff !

And not mentioned in your link...

Also please examine artificial ducting with regards to influencing gravity waves. The above link discusses ducting issues in gravity wave propagation.

Yes - ducting from:

Ie air masses moving are ducted by physical obstacles that can include other air masses - nothing about artificial ducting or anything to do with radio transmission.

http://www-pw.physics.uiowa.edu/~da...veyOfUpwellingIonEventCharacteristics_JGR.pdf

The documentation about injecting chemicals into the ionosphere is crazy cowboy science at its zenith!

the paper you link to is seems to have nothing to do with injecting chemicals into the ionosphere - the spacecraft concerned - Dynamic Explorer 1 - was in a highly eliptic orbit (23,000 x 570km) and was used to examine an "upwelling ion event" for which the cause was not known.

However inospheric injection is hardly news - there was an upsurge in sounding rocket activity around the time of the International Year of Geophysics in 1957-58 - payloads of various tracers were used throughout the 1960's - especially barium. Why do you characterise it as "crazy cowboy science" - is it because you have never heard of it before and don't understand it, or have you studied it and have some data that characterises it as such?
 

Billzilla

Senior Member.
Billzilla, we're talking about buoyancy waves, commonly referred to as gravity waves. I think you're confusing that with gravitational waves, which you were absolutely right about, btw.

Never hear of them sorry.
Gravity is gravity AFAIK, if you/him means something else then it's another reason why I much prefer to use the correct terminology.



Hey Bill? Remember John Belushi's final rant in "Animal House?" Electrojet is on a roll. It's entertaining as hell even if it's not really factual. Let him go. Maybe he'll marry Mandy Pepperidge and become a Senator or discover a new branch of physics. Oh wait. He apparently already has.

Heh.
I flew with a few guys from the USAF, all good fun.
(I'm an ex-747 Captain from Air Atlanta Icelandic)
 

blargo

Member
Oh, and we often get persistent lee waves east of the cascade crest as we had just a few days ago.

I live in Golden, CO and we too get the lee waves sometimes for days. I believe they call it a mountain wave and when that happens we get warm down-sloping winds with the wave cloud overhead. As a bicyclist I try and avoid these clouds due to the winds that are associated with them. There are times when these clouds go all up and down the front range. Other times they could be in a limited area and when you get out from underneath one the winds also subside.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
...

Gravity waves in the low and mid latitudes travel upwards initially. They then reflect downwards....

What reflects them?
Is there a sudden dense layer that exists higher up in the atmosphere, which typically gets less dense the higher you go?
 

electrojet

New Member
HAARP has the capability to excite acoustic gravity waves. HAARP can ionize/lift/heat the atmosphere which significantly affects airflow.


I will post the links this evening regarding acoustic gravity waves and artificially energizing geomagnetic field lines. There is intense interest in studying the dynamics of space weather and earth weather systems. Meridional circulation and geomagnetic field fluctuations are being studied to determine this linking. The science shows that HAARP modifies geomagnetic fields and that this is distinct from solar driven effects.


Solrey, You are right about the density of the atmosphere, but the energy equations and wave mixing at high altitudes are being increasingly looked at for a reason. There absolutely are buoyancy waves in the mesophere which also propagate downwards. Buoyancy waves have varying frequencies. Transmitter arrays frequencies interact with IGW's. The dilemma is that there are so many variables that distinguishing anthropogenic events from Man made ones is currently difficult.


Eventually I am going to get to stratospheric cloud studies, studies on altering the freezing point of water via charging, aerosol chemistry moderation, cascading ionization events, laser technology, and those atmospherically dense layers of the atmosphere that Solrey alluded to.

This examination though is going to continually return to where EISCAT's interest is focused. The breaking of gravity waves in the mesophere which drives the pole to pole circulation.


Cold energy isn't new physics, it is a naturally observed characteristic of the Universe. Just add a couple scoops of additional math and no feathers will get ruffled.


Bryan
-character is what a Man is in the dark. -D.L. Moody
 

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lotek

Active Member
hey look a picture of normal clouds....

So far in this thread we have:

1)Several claims about atmospheric sciences which are misunderstood or misrepresented, unintentionally or not.

2)lots of claims of "ill get that" or "im working on it"

3)No supporting data

4)Misused infographics with little understanding of the source material they came from

5)Confusion between similarly worded terms from different fields of scientific study

So if you are to remove like terms, order of operations, yadda yadda, you are left with nothing.....

I am not ripping on you, really, i support your effort to learn and appreciate your ability to so far have remained level headed and not claim us to be shills.

However, i feel obligated to point out that at this point in time we are still at base line with no information to support any of your claims, a pile of debunked data does not create a mountain of evidence backing you, as many CT supporters tend to feel. I eagerly await the papers and data you have said you will post that will show use the error of our ways.

One can claim there is a teapot in orbit around the sun all they want....
 
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