Comet ISON.. Biblical connections? To the book of revelations

nanotchi

Member
Another thing I found from 4chan. A conspiracy theorist on the /sci/ board posted the following:

The second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood, and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.

The third angel sounded, and a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters. The name of the star is called Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.

Later in the thread, he explained his reasoning with the following:

"I decided to look up the meaning of the names of the two Russians who discovered ISON: Vitali Nevski and Artyom Novichonok.
The name of the first guy, Vitali, means life. His last name, Nevski, is an offshoot of Neva, which is a river in Russia and means "sea" or "water". Therefore, the name of the first guy breaks down into "Vital or Living Waters". In Latin, the meaning of Neva is radiance or brightness. In this case his name would mean "alive with radiant brightness". Scientists are interested in ISON due to a study in how icy comets seed life throughout the universe. Without water there is no life.
The name of the second guy is where it gets horrifying. The name Artyom originates from ARTEMISIOS and means WORMWOOD (a bitter herb). I will repeat that because it is worth driving home.
The name of one of the Russian discoverers of this 3 to 4 mile wide comet with a 200,000 mile tail translates to WORMWOOD."

So well, what's there to say about this one?

Original thread here: http://boards.4chan.org/sci/res/6196950
 
So well, what's there to say about this one?

Doomsayers and evangelical "end-times" proponents have been trotting out the same "Wormwood" claims for at least a decade. The alleged "prophecy" was popularized by a few fringe authors and pseudoscientists in advance of the "Planet X" doomsday scenario of 2003 [Wiki]. It's been regurgitated for literally every comet in recent memory, including 73P/Schwassmann–Wachmann, C/2006 P1 McNaught, C/2010 X1 Elenin, C/2011 W3 Lovejoy, 103P/Hartley, and now, C/2012 S1 ISON. They were also in circulation last year for the predictably uneventful December 21st "Mayan doomsday" nonsense [NASA]. While minor details change -- like the scientists' names in this example, which is just a poor attempt at shoehorning for effect -- people resurrect the same framework for seemingly every object which passes through the inner solar system.

Despite a complete absence of cataclysmic destruction while the claim has been in circulation, some people just seem to enjoy perpetuating hoaxes and scary-sounding stories. Why can't comets be interesting enough on their own without having to add religious eschatology and tinfoil garbage?
 
....
The name of the first guy, Vitali, means life. His last name, Nevski, is an offshoot of Neva, which is a river in Russia and means "sea" or "water". Therefore, the name of the first guy breaks down into "Vital or Living Waters". In Latin, the meaning of Neva is radiance or brightness. In this case his name would mean "alive with radiant brightness". Scientists are interested in ISON due to a study in how icy comets seed life throughout the universe. Without water there is no life.
The name of the second guy is where it gets horrifying. The name Artyom originates from ARTEMISIOS and means WORMWOOD (a bitter herb). I will repeat that because it is worth driving home.
The name of one of the Russian discoverers of this 3 to 4 mile wide comet with a 200,000 mile tail translates to WORMWOOD."
....
With those kinds of connections, pictures can be made to fit any model. I guess the feeling of discovery in finding those connections is addictive and is what drives it. It's probably lots of fun and an interesting way to learn various unrelated things. But putting those things together to form significant meaning seems misguided without better reasoning.

Artemisios is from the Greek Goddess Artemis and does not appear to mean wormwood.

According to Charles Anthon the primitive root of the name is probably of Persian origin from arta*, art*, arte*,.. all meaning great, excellent, holy,.. thus Artemis "becomes identical with the great mother of Nature, even as she was worshipped at Ephesus"
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Name Artemisios generally means Safe or Butcher or Perfection, is of Greek origin, Name Artemisios is a Masculine (or Boy) name. .
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And anyway the name of the comet is not wormwood.
 
...
Despite a complete absence of cataclysmic destruction while the claim has been in circulation, some people just seem to enjoy perpetuating hoaxes and scary-sounding stories. Why can't comets be interesting enough on their own without having to add religious eschatology and tinfoil garbage?
Because apocalypticism is hard-wired into our culture. It will likely be forever with us and may be a manifestation of our individual fears and notions of personal death.
 
Because apocalypticism is hard-wired into our culture. It will likely be forever with us and may be a manifestation of our individual fears and notions of personal death.

Perhaps. This persistent trend of hoaxes concerning comets and near-Earth objects has become a repetitious pattern all its own, though, thanks to every crank, huckster and troll having an instant platform from which to broadcast copycat gibberish. The Internet is just saturated with the stuff to a point I never thought possible.

The elements are almost always identical, too:
  • the object isn't really what NASA/astronomers/the government states;
  • the object isn't really located where NASA/astronomers/the government states;
  • NASA/astronomers/the government are maliciously covering something up;
  • it will hit the Earth, or be responsible for catastrophic "Earth changes";
  • debris from the object will endanger cities;
  • it's actually an alien spacecraft or being pursued or attacked by aliens;
  • it's a manifestation of a prophecy from a religion or cult or mythological event.
When the object in question leaves our neighborhood without issue, of course, proponents forget all about it and just move on to the next. Lather, rinse, repeat. Why?

To me it's an especially peculiar means of expressing fear or distrust of authority. I realize many people are probably only attracted to these for entertainment, while few actually have serious concerns. Fewer still attempt to exploit the situation for website or channel views, or try to make a buck off of the credulous.

I just hope it finally sinks in that manufactured doomsday scenarios never materialize as advertised. It's just one hell of a boring cycle to watch.

If only people would use all that energy to actually learn something about astronomy instead of chasing shadows...
 
That's a good summary of the claims - definitely there is an aspect of it being an easy way to get some quick fame. People seem to learn the script and simply copy it.
It is strange that anyone ever has any credibility afterwards though, but if you can tell a good story then there's always an audience it seems.
I mean Hoagland is still at it.

http://www.examiner.com/article/comet-ison-arises-like-phoenix-from-the-dead-now-what-for-xmas

According to Richard Hoagland, science advisor on the popular Coast to Coast AM radio show, ISON is following an orbital trajectory that has been artificially created. Hoagland, gave an update on ISON in the early morning hours of Thanksgiving Day which was summarized as follows:

Somebody using the technology of the "secret space program" has maneuvered Comet ISON into its precise orbit for "symbolic, ritual, and celebratory purposes," as a kind of foreshadowing of amazing announcements or events here on Earth...

For Hoagland, it’s no accident that Comet ISON makes its closest approaches to the sun and earth respectively on U.S. Thanksgiving Day and Christmas Day. ISON’s creators have chosen these dates to make possible a chain of global events that fulfill a secret agenda that Hoagland has described at length in his most recent book, Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA.

Even more controversial are the claims of an individual called Tolec, who claims to be in communications with a group of extraterrestrials from the Andromeda constellation and other star systems. According to Tolec, Comet ISON is actually an extraterrestrial mothership. In a November 28 update on his blogsite, he wrote:

The biosphere - Xanterexx [called by the news media: "comet Ison"] is in fact the "Blue Star Kachina". It signifies the coming of major changes to this planet, the harbinger of change & 'open first contact '

If Tolec is correct, then we can expect more than big fireworks when Comet ISON makes its flyby of the Earth on December 26. A simulation of ISON’s trajectory is available here.

According to both Hoagland and Tolec, Comet ISON is a harbinger of planetary wide changes that we can expect to shortly witness. On the other hand, NASA astronomers claim that ISON is nothing more than a naturally formed comet that has shed most of its mass during its perihelion.​
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It's looking like Ison is unlikely to have survived though. However that isn't going to stop speculation on remnants now on a collision course.
 
It's interesting but they haven't offered proof of anything
With those kinds of connections, pictures can be made to fit any model. I guess the feeling of discovery in finding those connections is addictive and is what drives it. It's probably lots of fun and an interesting way to learn various unrelated things. But putting those things together to form significant meaning seems misguided without better reasoning.

Artemisios is from the Greek Goddess Artemis and does not appear to mean wormwood.

According to Charles Anthon the primitive root of the name is probably of Persian origin from arta*, art*, arte*,.. all meaning great, excellent, holy,.. thus Artemis "becomes identical with the great mother of Nature, even as she was worshipped at Ephesus"
Content from External Source

Name Artemisios generally means Safe or Butcher or Perfection, is of Greek origin, Name Artemisios is a Masculine (or Boy) name. .
Content from External Source
And anyway the name of the comet is not wormwood.
The wormwood association comes from the genus name Artemisias which also happens to be the feminine form of Artemisios.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_(plant)

They are not far off in the name associations although to make something out of the second scientist last name, Novichonok, you have to use both Latin and Hebrew. It translates roughly as "New Star Dedicated"
 
I mean Hoagland is still at it.

He must never tire of being spectacularly wrong. He claimed Elenin was an alien spaceship running with its shields up. He trotted out the same "it's a spaceship!" schtick for Hartley. Poor ISON doesn't get an elaborate crackpot story, just a plug for his silly book? Aww.

It's looking like Ison is unlikely to have survived though. However that isn't going to stop speculation on remnants now on a collision course.

Probably not, but hopefully the genuinely curious will recognize that the debris shed by ISON is just tiny bits of dust. Wiki sayeth:

Earth will pass near the orbit of C/2012 S1 on 14–15 January 2014, well after C/2012 S1 has passed, at which time micron-sized dust particles blown by the Sun's radiation may cause a meteor shower or noctilucent clouds;[27][28] however, both events are unlikely. Because Earth only passes near C/2012 S1's orbit, not through the tail, the chances that a meteor shower will occur are slim.[29] In addition, meteor showers from long-period comets that make just one pass into the inner solar system are very rare, if ever recorded.[30] The possibility that small particles left behind on the orbital path—almost one hundred days after the nucleus has passed—could form noctilucent clouds is also slim. No such events are known to have taken place in the past under similar circumstances.[30]
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Hey Folks,

Just wonder if any of you ISON watchers had heard/seen the Youtube video by Nikola Teslaghost? It seems there is a grand conspiracy by everyone, especially NASA and the good old government, to hide the fact that ISON has really not been affected at all. It's not dead! It is headed our way at full strength and 24Km wide spacship? This guy is way out there and says "around Dec 16" we will all be made aware that we have been misled by all authorities and we are all doomed. He uses the NASA camera videos to make his point but somehow it looks like he has either manipulated it or in misinterpreting the position, or object. Anyway just wanted to get some feed back form the folks here who provide some good critical reasoning and non psychotic analysis to most stuff that is just too hard to believe.
 
Sorry it will not allow me to copy/paste the link? There are 2 videos referenced from YouTube I believe? It is frightening that some people really believe this kind of stuff. You can find them at" UFO Sightings Hotspot" which is a blog for everything UFO and then some. It is a great place if you ever want a good laugh!!!!
 


(haven't watched)


Has anybody in the northern hemisphere been able to see the sunrise since Nov.29. Im in Illinois and have not!!!!!!!!! Watch out on Dec.16
Reply

Very Teri
2 hours ago

No - the chemtrail, 'climate control' programs have very aggressively stepped up to cover the skies for awhile now - VERY aggressively... funny timing don't you think?
Reply
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(haven't watched)


Has anybody in the northern hemisphere been able to see the sunrise since Nov.29. Im in Illinois and have not!!!!!!!!! Watch out on Dec.16
Reply

Very Teri
2 hours ago

No - the chemtrail, 'climate control' programs have very aggressively stepped up to cover the skies for awhile now - VERY aggressively... funny timing don't you think?
Reply
Content from External Source

I've watched it a couple of times and the commentator seems to be all over the place. I'm not sure what he is trying to get across other than he thinks NASA is intentionally is intentionally lying about something that is readily available to the public. He doesn't seem to understand that lies and cover ups and making the raw data available are counterproductive. From his comments at the end "a rock of a minimum of 20 kilometers...it survived...it's still alive" I think he believes Ison is on a collision course.
 


(haven't watched)


Has anybody in the northern hemisphere been able to see the sunrise since Nov.29. Im in Illinois and have not!!!!!!!!! Watch out on Dec.16
Reply

Very Teri
2 hours ago

No - the chemtrail, 'climate control' programs have very aggressively stepped up to cover the skies for awhile now - VERY aggressively... funny timing don't you think?
Reply
Content from External Source

I've watched it a couple of times and the commentator seems to be all over the place. I'm not sure what he is trying to get across other than he thinks NASA is intentionally is intentionally lying about something that is readily available to the public. He doesn't seem to understand that lies and cover ups and making the raw data available are counterproductive. From his comments at the end "a rock of a minimum of 20 kilometers...it survived...it's still alive" I think he believes Ison is on a collision course.


The other video is even more bizzare. There it is claimed that there is some huge spherical planet, dark star or whatever and NASA has airbrushed it out so we will not it?
 
The other video is even more bizzare. There it is claimed that there is some huge spherical planet, dark star or whatever and NASA has airbrushed it out so we will not it?
That would be the planet Niburu that was first popularized by Zecharia Stitchin in the 1970's. It is supposed to be inhabited by aliens called the Annunaki and pass through the inner solar system every 3,600 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin
Many of his followers attached themselves to a cult leader named Nancy Lieder who claimed in 1995 that aliens called Zetas informed her that Niburu would pass close to the Earth causing world wide disaster(I won't link to her site). She has repeatedly predicted the end of world and claims that world's governments are hiding the truth. Despite being repeatedly wrong and the lack of any evidence for her claims she has followers that claim Saturn and Jupiter have turned on their sides (my telescope says no) and post random lens flares as evidence of the planets existence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_cataclysm
 
What is he basing his estimate of size on? Apart from "NASA lies"?
His own visual estimate of how large Ison looked and another comet looked relative to each other and Mercury in separate images. Nikolas Teslasghost seems to be heavily invested in the Niburu myth and has previously promoted the idea that comet Ison would cause world shattering events on this past October 1st.
 
Because as we all know, a conspiratorially-minded rank amateur can merely glance at SOHO and STEREO imagery using the "looks like a bunny!" approach and reach more reliable conclusions than professional astronomers. :confused:

It takes a great deal more than distrust of government or personal incredulity to deliver mass or visual magnitude estimates for comets. Some random scaremonger on YouTube isn't going to produce reliable numbers for either, especially not by just casually looking at imagery from instruments designed to monitor the Sun and solar corona.

The cover-up claims are especially preposterous here. NASA not only makes all imagery and data freely available anyway, but in this case also set up a dedicated page on the main NASA domain [link] as well as a special observing campaign [link] for ISON. With dedicated blogs and social media feeds, an above-average amount of public outreach and coordination has been done for this comet's arrival. There's more information available than usual due to the initial high expectations about ISON, and NASA isn't stingy when it comes to cometary observations anyway.

Q. What is the CIOC?
A.
The Comet ISON Observing Campaign (CIOC) is a team of comet scientists and observers that is dedicated to encouraging NASA's ground and space-based observatories in obtaining as many observations of Comet ISON as is possible. The Campaign is also highly encouraging of non-NASA entities (ground and space-based), and any/all other professional and amateur astronomers in doing the same.
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While it's handy to have a few space-based solar observatories, NASA certainly has no monopoly on astronomical facilities or personnel, and this is a point the conspiracy advocates always seem to ignore. ISON has been a target for amateur astronomers and astrophotographers for some time now. ISON has been observed and imaged using university observatories. In all the non-NASA imagery and observations that've been compiled, if there were some great discrepancy or anything truly out of the ordinary it'd be public knowledge. There is no sole reliance on government sources, and with astrophotography equipment being more accessible to amateurs than ever before, there's simply no excuse for making such assertions. If the doomsayers' claims about ISON held any validity, we'd have stacks of unequivocal documentation to demonstrate it.

Like Bill said, his narrative is typical scaremongering copied straight from the "Nibiru" script. Whatever bits are left of ISON, if any, will pass through some 64,000,000 km away from Earth. That's some two and a half million kilometers farther away than Venus is from us right now. Someone's going to be disappointed when his personal doomsday doesn't happen.
 
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Is this is the best my super-secret conceal-the-truth tax dollars can do? I demand more competent cover-up personnel be installed. :D

Reddit “Ask Me Anything” with Comet ISON researchers
Answering your Comet ISON questions will be scientists studying Comet ISON and members of NASA's Comet ISON Observing Campaign team:
-Matthew Knight (Lowell Observatory)
-Karl Battams (Naval Research Laboratory)
-Elizabeth Warner (University of Maryland)
-Padma Yanamandra-Fisher (Space Sciences Institute)
-Ron Vervack (Johns Hopkins University-Applied Physics Laboratory)
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Part I (Nov. 26): We are scientists studying Comet ISON and members of NASA's Comet ISON Observing Campaign team. AMA!
Part II (Dec. 4): Follow up thread
 
The brightness of objects in SOHO effects how large they appear doesn't it? Like an over-saturation?
 
I've watched it a couple of times and the commentator seems to be all over the place. I'm not sure what he is trying to get across other than he thinks NASA is intentionally is intentionally lying about something that is readily available to the public. He doesn't seem to understand that lies and cover ups and making the raw data available are counterproductive. From his comments at the end "a rock of a minimum of 20 kilometers...it survived...it's still alive" I think he believes Ison is on a collision course.


Well now it's Dec 16th and no resurrection of ISON according to the doomsday video. I assume that the dates will be changed and or more paranoia about NASA hiding this from us all? Or why the public has not come forward with any private photos etc... to undercut the super secret disinformation campaign? Seems again like hiding something like this would require the cooperation of thousands of participants? I guess the NWO folks have a lot of folks to take care of in the "end". Just can not wait to see what NTG has to say now that his prediction has failed!
 
Well now it's Dec 16th and no resurrection of ISON according to the doomsday video. I assume that the dates will be changed and or more paranoia about NASA hiding this from us all? Or why the public has not come forward with any private photos etc... to undercut the super secret disinformation campaign? Seems again like hiding something like this would require the cooperation of thousands of participants? I guess the NWO folks have a lot of folks to take care of in the "end". Just can not wait to see what NTG has to say now that his prediction has failed!

Like I said, someone's going to be disappointed that his pet ideas didn't pan out. I don't want to give today's posted video the benefit of a link or additional views, suffice to say it's another stream of gibberish. He's misinterpreting unrelated imagery and events while pushing vague pseudoscientific correlations between them, launching a full volley of tinfoil at the wall and hoping something will stick (Tesla & "free energy" mythology, Nostradamus, "electric universe" ideas, "alignments" with astrological connotations, and meaningless warning "signs" of his own design... ugh.)

The primary issue is his rejection of ISON not having survived perihelion, and that it's still going to somehow affect Venus and Earth (and even Jupiter :rolleyes:), wrapped in the same threadbare "cover-up" allegations. If what he were claiming had any foundation in reality, nothing could hide a substantial, hazardous object - let alone a faint comet - from the dedicated masses of non-governmental astronomers and astrophotographers out there. It's honestly laughable.

The following graphic shows what ISON's position would have been for today's date had it not disintegrated. Note the significant distances separating the would-be object and planets, not to mention it's well above the ecliptic. It wouldn't pose any issues even if it were the size of Hale-Bopp.

ison.jpg

I don't expect for a moment that he'll let this go or come close to admitting his ideas are wrong. The excuses we can expect to see likely won't even merit passing curiosity.

Silliness aside, it'd be lovely if we could be treated to a great comet, beyond any scientific value it'd also make a wonderful target for photography.
 
Silliness aside, it'd be lovely if we could be treated to a great comet, beyond any scientific value it'd also make a wonderful target for photography.
I'm ashamed to say I didn't even know about Holmes and Lovejoy and they were pretty awesome.
 
I'm ashamed to say I didn't even know about Holmes and Lovejoy and they were pretty awesome.

The southern hemisphere has had all the best views in recent years (especially Australians and Kiwis, it seems)... totally unfair! ;)

Lovejoy was pretty dazzling, but McNaught was my favorite in recent memory. I was only able to briefly observe the tiniest fraction of its dust tail this far north.
 
The southern hemisphere has had all the best views in recent years (especially Australians and Kiwis, it seems)... totally unfair! ;)

Lovejoy was pretty dazzling, but McNaught was my favorite in recent memory. I was only able to briefly observe the tiniest fraction of its dust tail this far north.

Yep, McNaught was pretty good here on the south coast of Wellington, NZ - light pollution isn't too bad, and directly south of us (where we looked to see the comet) there's nothing but deep dark southern ocean, so about as good as you get for urban star-gazing and comet-spotting. Those long-exposure APOD photos slightly overplays how good McNaught was -- in my mind I remember it as being like a bright star with an obvious long tail. Pretty cool, but no 1910's Halley Comet.
 
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It's predicted that Ison will be resurrected and will crash into my neighbourhood. We have all been issued with a baseball mitt and a bucket of water.
 
A quick follow-up:

In his latest video, our doomsayer is now trying to suggest that there's an "uptick" in fireball reports, and that those are somehow attributable to debris from ISON. Well, ISON's debris consists of micron-sized particles, and unfortunately for him isn't the bolide factory he wishes to imagine. The alleged increase in fireball sightings simply has no legs, given the following:

For 2012 there were 2126 fireballs recorded at the American Meteor Society.[25] There are probably more than 500,000 fireballs a year,[26] but most will go unnoticed because most will occur over the ocean and half will occur during the daytime.
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Sooner or later he'll have to recognize there's nothing unusual going on.
 
While these predictions and the like are all too frequent and lacking of substance . . . even Stephen Hawking admits we need to get off the planet because someday in the future (sooner or later) something is going to eventually destroy our little blue marble . . .
 
for me its a (my math may be wrong) 1 in 390,097,500,000 chance id be reading about meteors and simultaneously see one tv. and I started at age 16 since I wouldn't remember before then.
 
Given that you imply the 1 in ... chance means that it was something other than one of the 'normal' fireballs, what are you implying it is? It's physically impossible that it is material from Ison. (I think)
 
There has been an increase in the number of fireball reports submitted to the American Meteor Society, primarily due to more awareness, mobile devices and upgrades to reporting software. There's no evidence that the number of fireballs per year has actually increased. That said, there can be spikes in fireball activity associated with certain meteor showers like the Geminids which peaked on 13/14 Dec.

http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireballs/fireball-tracking-system-analysis/

Circumstances effecting the number of reports and events collected by the AMS

There are circumstances affecting the data collected by the AMS that should be understood to prevent misinterpretation regarding the change of fireballs reported.

  1. From January 2005 through December 2010 the AMS fireball reports system was based on the same data collection form and process created by Bob Lunsford in 2005.
  2. In December 2010 the AMS fireball reporting system was upgraded to a database google maps system developed by Mike Hankey and company.
  3. The new software made it much easier for witnesses to file reports and resulted in more witnesses successfully reporting events.
  4. Internet traffic on the AMS site has increased since 2005. In current years, more people are connected with mobile devices, laptops and computers than ever before. This leads to more people reporting fireballs.
  5. At least one huge event with over 100+ reports in 2009 was space trash, and there was at least 1 space trash event for 2012. The graph of 100+ events has not been adjusted to account for space trash.
  6. A percentage of reports received are cloud contrails, planes, sun dogs or phenomenon other than fireball meteors. These reports are deleted when detected and generally tend to be events reported by only one witness.
  7. In November 2012, the AMS fireball reporting software was upgraded again and this upgrade resulted in an immediate increase of reports received. It is believed that improvements to the user interface lessened the amount of form abandonment and other training issues that may have kept witnesses from successfully logging events on the previous version.
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Given that you imply the 1 in ... chance means that it was something other than one of the 'normal' fireballs
I have no idea how you reached that conclusion. the topic of the thread is weird coincidences. I used Your numbers. I wasn't implying anything about what the fireball was. honest.
 
I thought it was weird coincidence specifically related to Ison.

The chance of you seeing a newscast about a fireball report after reading about fireballs isn't really that odd, though it's cool when it happens I'm sure.
 
Seven people a day experience the same one in a billion coincidence. Every day. By definition.

The incorrect calculation of odds leads to a lot of misunderstandings.
 
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