Comet ISON.. Biblical connections? To the book of revelations

nanotchi

Member
Another thing I found from 4chan. A conspiracy theorist on the /sci/ board posted the following:

The second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood, and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.

The third angel sounded, and a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters. The name of the star is called Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.

Later in the thread, he explained his reasoning with the following:

"I decided to look up the meaning of the names of the two Russians who discovered ISON: Vitali Nevski and Artyom Novichonok.
The name of the first guy, Vitali, means life. His last name, Nevski, is an offshoot of Neva, which is a river in Russia and means "sea" or "water". Therefore, the name of the first guy breaks down into "Vital or Living Waters". In Latin, the meaning of Neva is radiance or brightness. In this case his name would mean "alive with radiant brightness". Scientists are interested in ISON due to a study in how icy comets seed life throughout the universe. Without water there is no life.
The name of the second guy is where it gets horrifying. The name Artyom originates from ARTEMISIOS and means WORMWOOD (a bitter herb). I will repeat that because it is worth driving home.
The name of one of the Russian discoverers of this 3 to 4 mile wide comet with a 200,000 mile tail translates to WORMWOOD."

So well, what's there to say about this one?

Original thread here: http://boards.4chan.org/sci/res/6196950
 

cosmic

Senior Member.
So well, what's there to say about this one?

Doomsayers and evangelical "end-times" proponents have been trotting out the same "Wormwood" claims for at least a decade. The alleged "prophecy" was popularized by a few fringe authors and pseudoscientists in advance of the "Planet X" doomsday scenario of 2003 [Wiki]. It's been regurgitated for literally every comet in recent memory, including 73P/Schwassmann–Wachmann, C/2006 P1 McNaught, C/2010 X1 Elenin, C/2011 W3 Lovejoy, 103P/Hartley, and now, C/2012 S1 ISON. They were also in circulation last year for the predictably uneventful December 21st "Mayan doomsday" nonsense [NASA]. While minor details change -- like the scientists' names in this example, which is just a poor attempt at shoehorning for effect -- people resurrect the same framework for seemingly every object which passes through the inner solar system.

Despite a complete absence of cataclysmic destruction while the claim has been in circulation, some people just seem to enjoy perpetuating hoaxes and scary-sounding stories. Why can't comets be interesting enough on their own without having to add religious eschatology and tinfoil garbage?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
....
The name of the first guy, Vitali, means life. His last name, Nevski, is an offshoot of Neva, which is a river in Russia and means "sea" or "water". Therefore, the name of the first guy breaks down into "Vital or Living Waters". In Latin, the meaning of Neva is radiance or brightness. In this case his name would mean "alive with radiant brightness". Scientists are interested in ISON due to a study in how icy comets seed life throughout the universe. Without water there is no life.
The name of the second guy is where it gets horrifying. The name Artyom originates from ARTEMISIOS and means WORMWOOD (a bitter herb). I will repeat that because it is worth driving home.
The name of one of the Russian discoverers of this 3 to 4 mile wide comet with a 200,000 mile tail translates to WORMWOOD."
....
With those kinds of connections, pictures can be made to fit any model. I guess the feeling of discovery in finding those connections is addictive and is what drives it. It's probably lots of fun and an interesting way to learn various unrelated things. But putting those things together to form significant meaning seems misguided without better reasoning.

Artemisios is from the Greek Goddess Artemis and does not appear to mean wormwood.

And anyway the name of the comet is not wormwood.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
...
Despite a complete absence of cataclysmic destruction while the claim has been in circulation, some people just seem to enjoy perpetuating hoaxes and scary-sounding stories. Why can't comets be interesting enough on their own without having to add religious eschatology and tinfoil garbage?
Because apocalypticism is hard-wired into our culture. It will likely be forever with us and may be a manifestation of our individual fears and notions of personal death.
 

cosmic

Senior Member.
Because apocalypticism is hard-wired into our culture. It will likely be forever with us and may be a manifestation of our individual fears and notions of personal death.

Perhaps. This persistent trend of hoaxes concerning comets and near-Earth objects has become a repetitious pattern all its own, though, thanks to every crank, huckster and troll having an instant platform from which to broadcast copycat gibberish. The Internet is just saturated with the stuff to a point I never thought possible.

The elements are almost always identical, too:
  • the object isn't really what NASA/astronomers/the government states;
  • the object isn't really located where NASA/astronomers/the government states;
  • NASA/astronomers/the government are maliciously covering something up;
  • it will hit the Earth, or be responsible for catastrophic "Earth changes";
  • debris from the object will endanger cities;
  • it's actually an alien spacecraft or being pursued or attacked by aliens;
  • it's a manifestation of a prophecy from a religion or cult or mythological event.
When the object in question leaves our neighborhood without issue, of course, proponents forget all about it and just move on to the next. Lather, rinse, repeat. Why?

To me it's an especially peculiar means of expressing fear or distrust of authority. I realize many people are probably only attracted to these for entertainment, while few actually have serious concerns. Fewer still attempt to exploit the situation for website or channel views, or try to make a buck off of the credulous.

I just hope it finally sinks in that manufactured doomsday scenarios never materialize as advertised. It's just one hell of a boring cycle to watch.

If only people would use all that energy to actually learn something about astronomy instead of chasing shadows...
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
That's a good summary of the claims - definitely there is an aspect of it being an easy way to get some quick fame. People seem to learn the script and simply copy it.
It is strange that anyone ever has any credibility afterwards though, but if you can tell a good story then there's always an audience it seems.
I mean Hoagland is still at it.
It's looking like Ison is unlikely to have survived though. However that isn't going to stop speculation on remnants now on a collision course.
 

Bill

Senior Member.
It's interesting but they haven't offered proof of anything
With those kinds of connections, pictures can be made to fit any model. I guess the feeling of discovery in finding those connections is addictive and is what drives it. It's probably lots of fun and an interesting way to learn various unrelated things. But putting those things together to form significant meaning seems misguided without better reasoning.

Artemisios is from the Greek Goddess Artemis and does not appear to mean wormwood.

And anyway the name of the comet is not wormwood.
The wormwood association comes from the genus name Artemisias which also happens to be the feminine form of Artemisios.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_(plant)

They are not far off in the name associations although to make something out of the second scientist last name, Novichonok, you have to use both Latin and Hebrew. It translates roughly as "New Star Dedicated"
 

cosmic

Senior Member.
I mean Hoagland is still at it.

He must never tire of being spectacularly wrong. He claimed Elenin was an alien spaceship running with its shields up. He trotted out the same "it's a spaceship!" schtick for Hartley. Poor ISON doesn't get an elaborate crackpot story, just a plug for his silly book? Aww.

It's looking like Ison is unlikely to have survived though. However that isn't going to stop speculation on remnants now on a collision course.

Probably not, but hopefully the genuinely curious will recognize that the debris shed by ISON is just tiny bits of dust. Wiki sayeth:

 

Skaredstiff

Member
Hey Folks,

Just wonder if any of you ISON watchers had heard/seen the Youtube video by Nikola Teslaghost? It seems there is a grand conspiracy by everyone, especially NASA and the good old government, to hide the fact that ISON has really not been affected at all. It's not dead! It is headed our way at full strength and 24Km wide spacship? This guy is way out there and says "around Dec 16" we will all be made aware that we have been misled by all authorities and we are all doomed. He uses the NASA camera videos to make his point but somehow it looks like he has either manipulated it or in misinterpreting the position, or object. Anyway just wanted to get some feed back form the folks here who provide some good critical reasoning and non psychotic analysis to most stuff that is just too hard to believe.
 

Skaredstiff

Member
Sorry it will not allow me to copy/paste the link? There are 2 videos referenced from YouTube I believe? It is frightening that some people really believe this kind of stuff. You can find them at" UFO Sightings Hotspot" which is a blog for everything UFO and then some. It is a great place if you ever want a good laugh!!!!
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.

(haven't watched)

 

Bill

Senior Member.

(haven't watched)

I've watched it a couple of times and the commentator seems to be all over the place. I'm not sure what he is trying to get across other than he thinks NASA is intentionally is intentionally lying about something that is readily available to the public. He doesn't seem to understand that lies and cover ups and making the raw data available are counterproductive. From his comments at the end "a rock of a minimum of 20 kilometers...it survived...it's still alive" I think he believes Ison is on a collision course.
 

Skaredstiff

Member

(haven't watched)

I've watched it a couple of times and the commentator seems to be all over the place. I'm not sure what he is trying to get across other than he thinks NASA is intentionally is intentionally lying about something that is readily available to the public. He doesn't seem to understand that lies and cover ups and making the raw data available are counterproductive. From his comments at the end "a rock of a minimum of 20 kilometers...it survived...it's still alive" I think he believes Ison is on a collision course.


The other video is even more bizzare. There it is claimed that there is some huge spherical planet, dark star or whatever and NASA has airbrushed it out so we will not it?
 

Bill

Senior Member.
The other video is even more bizzare. There it is claimed that there is some huge spherical planet, dark star or whatever and NASA has airbrushed it out so we will not it?
That would be the planet Niburu that was first popularized by Zecharia Stitchin in the 1970's. It is supposed to be inhabited by aliens called the Annunaki and pass through the inner solar system every 3,600 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin
Many of his followers attached themselves to a cult leader named Nancy Lieder who claimed in 1995 that aliens called Zetas informed her that Niburu would pass close to the Earth causing world wide disaster(I won't link to her site). She has repeatedly predicted the end of world and claims that world's governments are hiding the truth. Despite being repeatedly wrong and the lack of any evidence for her claims she has followers that claim Saturn and Jupiter have turned on their sides (my telescope says no) and post random lens flares as evidence of the planets existence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_cataclysm
 

Bill

Senior Member.
What is he basing his estimate of size on? Apart from "NASA lies"?
His own visual estimate of how large Ison looked and another comet looked relative to each other and Mercury in separate images. Nikolas Teslasghost seems to be heavily invested in the Niburu myth and has previously promoted the idea that comet Ison would cause world shattering events on this past October 1st.
 

cosmic

Senior Member.
Because as we all know, a conspiratorially-minded rank amateur can merely glance at SOHO and STEREO imagery using the "looks like a bunny!" approach and reach more reliable conclusions than professional astronomers. :confused:

It takes a great deal more than distrust of government or personal incredulity to deliver mass or visual magnitude estimates for comets. Some random scaremonger on YouTube isn't going to produce reliable numbers for either, especially not by just casually looking at imagery from instruments designed to monitor the Sun and solar corona.

The cover-up claims are especially preposterous here. NASA not only makes all imagery and data freely available anyway, but in this case also set up a dedicated page on the main NASA domain [link] as well as a special observing campaign [link] for ISON. With dedicated blogs and social media feeds, an above-average amount of public outreach and coordination has been done for this comet's arrival. There's more information available than usual due to the initial high expectations about ISON, and NASA isn't stingy when it comes to cometary observations anyway.

While it's handy to have a few space-based solar observatories, NASA certainly has no monopoly on astronomical facilities or personnel, and this is a point the conspiracy advocates always seem to ignore. ISON has been a target for amateur astronomers and astrophotographers for some time now. ISON has been observed and imaged using university observatories. In all the non-NASA imagery and observations that've been compiled, if there were some great discrepancy or anything truly out of the ordinary it'd be public knowledge. There is no sole reliance on government sources, and with astrophotography equipment being more accessible to amateurs than ever before, there's simply no excuse for making such assertions. If the doomsayers' claims about ISON held any validity, we'd have stacks of unequivocal documentation to demonstrate it.

Like Bill said, his narrative is typical scaremongering copied straight from the "Nibiru" script. Whatever bits are left of ISON, if any, will pass through some 64,000,000 km away from Earth. That's some two and a half million kilometers farther away than Venus is from us right now. Someone's going to be disappointed when his personal doomsday doesn't happen.
 
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cosmic

Senior Member.
Is this is the best my super-secret conceal-the-truth tax dollars can do? I demand more competent cover-up personnel be installed. :D

Part I (Nov. 26): We are scientists studying Comet ISON and members of NASA's Comet ISON Observing Campaign team. AMA!
Part II (Dec. 4): Follow up thread
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
The brightness of objects in SOHO effects how large they appear doesn't it? Like an over-saturation?
 

Skaredstiff

Member
I've watched it a couple of times and the commentator seems to be all over the place. I'm not sure what he is trying to get across other than he thinks NASA is intentionally is intentionally lying about something that is readily available to the public. He doesn't seem to understand that lies and cover ups and making the raw data available are counterproductive. From his comments at the end "a rock of a minimum of 20 kilometers...it survived...it's still alive" I think he believes Ison is on a collision course.


Well now it's Dec 16th and no resurrection of ISON according to the doomsday video. I assume that the dates will be changed and or more paranoia about NASA hiding this from us all? Or why the public has not come forward with any private photos etc... to undercut the super secret disinformation campaign? Seems again like hiding something like this would require the cooperation of thousands of participants? I guess the NWO folks have a lot of folks to take care of in the "end". Just can not wait to see what NTG has to say now that his prediction has failed!
 

cosmic

Senior Member.
Well now it's Dec 16th and no resurrection of ISON according to the doomsday video. I assume that the dates will be changed and or more paranoia about NASA hiding this from us all? Or why the public has not come forward with any private photos etc... to undercut the super secret disinformation campaign? Seems again like hiding something like this would require the cooperation of thousands of participants? I guess the NWO folks have a lot of folks to take care of in the "end". Just can not wait to see what NTG has to say now that his prediction has failed!

Like I said, someone's going to be disappointed that his pet ideas didn't pan out. I don't want to give today's posted video the benefit of a link or additional views, suffice to say it's another stream of gibberish. He's misinterpreting unrelated imagery and events while pushing vague pseudoscientific correlations between them, launching a full volley of tinfoil at the wall and hoping something will stick (Tesla & "free energy" mythology, Nostradamus, "electric universe" ideas, "alignments" with astrological connotations, and meaningless warning "signs" of his own design... ugh.)

The primary issue is his rejection of ISON not having survived perihelion, and that it's still going to somehow affect Venus and Earth (and even Jupiter :rolleyes:), wrapped in the same threadbare "cover-up" allegations. If what he were claiming had any foundation in reality, nothing could hide a substantial, hazardous object - let alone a faint comet - from the dedicated masses of non-governmental astronomers and astrophotographers out there. It's honestly laughable.

The following graphic shows what ISON's position would have been for today's date had it not disintegrated. Note the significant distances separating the would-be object and planets, not to mention it's well above the ecliptic. It wouldn't pose any issues even if it were the size of Hale-Bopp.

ison.jpg

I don't expect for a moment that he'll let this go or come close to admitting his ideas are wrong. The excuses we can expect to see likely won't even merit passing curiosity.

Silliness aside, it'd be lovely if we could be treated to a great comet, beyond any scientific value it'd also make a wonderful target for photography.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Silliness aside, it'd be lovely if we could be treated to a great comet, beyond any scientific value it'd also make a wonderful target for photography.
I'm ashamed to say I didn't even know about Holmes and Lovejoy and they were pretty awesome.
 

cosmic

Senior Member.
I'm ashamed to say I didn't even know about Holmes and Lovejoy and they were pretty awesome.

The southern hemisphere has had all the best views in recent years (especially Australians and Kiwis, it seems)... totally unfair! ;)

Lovejoy was pretty dazzling, but McNaught was my favorite in recent memory. I was only able to briefly observe the tiniest fraction of its dust tail this far north.
 

hemi

Senior Member.
The southern hemisphere has had all the best views in recent years (especially Australians and Kiwis, it seems)... totally unfair! ;)

Lovejoy was pretty dazzling, but McNaught was my favorite in recent memory. I was only able to briefly observe the tiniest fraction of its dust tail this far north.

Yep, McNaught was pretty good here on the south coast of Wellington, NZ - light pollution isn't too bad, and directly south of us (where we looked to see the comet) there's nothing but deep dark southern ocean, so about as good as you get for urban star-gazing and comet-spotting. Those long-exposure APOD photos slightly overplays how good McNaught was -- in my mind I remember it as being like a bright star with an obvious long tail. Pretty cool, but no 1910's Halley Comet.
 
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Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
It's predicted that Ison will be resurrected and will crash into my neighbourhood. We have all been issued with a baseball mitt and a bucket of water.
 

cosmic

Senior Member.
A quick follow-up:

In his latest video, our doomsayer is now trying to suggest that there's an "uptick" in fireball reports, and that those are somehow attributable to debris from ISON. Well, ISON's debris consists of micron-sized particles, and unfortunately for him isn't the bolide factory he wishes to imagine. The alleged increase in fireball sightings simply has no legs, given the following:

Sooner or later he'll have to recognize there's nothing unusual going on.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
While these predictions and the like are all too frequent and lacking of substance . . . even Stephen Hawking admits we need to get off the planet because someday in the future (sooner or later) something is going to eventually destroy our little blue marble . . .
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
for me its a (my math may be wrong) 1 in 390,097,500,000 chance id be reading about meteors and simultaneously see one tv. and I started at age 16 since I wouldn't remember before then.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Given that you imply the 1 in ... chance means that it was something other than one of the 'normal' fireballs, what are you implying it is? It's physically impossible that it is material from Ison. (I think)
 

solrey

Senior Member.
There has been an increase in the number of fireball reports submitted to the American Meteor Society, primarily due to more awareness, mobile devices and upgrades to reporting software. There's no evidence that the number of fireballs per year has actually increased. That said, there can be spikes in fireball activity associated with certain meteor showers like the Geminids which peaked on 13/14 Dec.

http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireballs/fireball-tracking-system-analysis/

 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Given that you imply the 1 in ... chance means that it was something other than one of the 'normal' fireballs
I have no idea how you reached that conclusion. the topic of the thread is weird coincidences. I used Your numbers. I wasn't implying anything about what the fireball was. honest.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
I thought it was weird coincidence specifically related to Ison.

The chance of you seeing a newscast about a fireball report after reading about fireballs isn't really that odd, though it's cool when it happens I'm sure.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Seven people a day experience the same one in a billion coincidence. Every day. By definition.

The incorrect calculation of odds leads to a lot of misunderstandings.
 

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