Spielberg’s “Disclosure Day” discussion [WITH SPOILERS]

[Fritzkquzerk]

So, I've seen the movie Premiere in Turin, Italy, a few hours ago.
It was also introduced by CISU (Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici, they are the most "scientific" UFO association in Italy, they have a big record of sightings, go looking in loco, etc.)
It was interesting.
The film? From my point of view, as a sci-fi lover, it was ok, I would say.
Very spielbergish.

Regarding the UFO lore:
So, the plot revolves around the big conspiracy for secrecy.
A contractor holds the whole truth on aliens, the secret cannot be revealed because it would cause chaos, MiB style.
The videos from the navy, yes, it was covered.
Same imagery (not nust blobs on screen, but trans medium objects).
Some "body control" scenes, well played I think.
As an "aliens movies" lover, I expected a bit more "otherworldly" representation, I don't know.
The whole mood is much lighter than what I expected.
Arrival, for example, is a much better alien movie in my opinion.
It was enjoyable, overall, as an experience.
(I also got to talk UFOs with the people from CISU, it was interesting, they are largely skeptics on the subject, not extraterrestrial conspiracy buffs).


Another user asked me how much of it is a chase.
He said maybe 20%.
Sorry, I think it's more.
It's a BIG chase, actually.

The aliens?
I can spoil it but it's, uhm, I'll tell you when you'll ask me.

Anyway this is the first thread that I open, I like it here, I had interesting discussions with many of you.
I think I'll stick around longer!
Ask me anything!

 

[Jay Y]

What about shots of awestruck folk staring into the distance?

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

What about shots of awestruck folk staring into the distance?

Not much!

 

[NoParty]

Is it true that the aliens craft an impressive "UFO Mothership" out of common kitchen ceiling light fixtures?

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

Is it true that the aliens craft an impressive "UFO Mothership" out of common kitchen ceiling light fixtures?

There's actually less "mothership" stuff than expected, luckily.
It really all revolves around the big alien truth being secret, humanity deserves to know, some people are gatekeepers (actually it's just ONE BAD GUY, with his company, but for the sake of ONE film instead of a series, it makes sense).
There's less "aliens" than I actually thought.
The trailer kinda already spoils the big aliens scenes, and yes, crop circles scenes, but those were visible on the trailer as well.
But the aliens themselves are, well, cliché?

 

[Todd Feinman]

Haven't seen it. Hope you enjoyed it!

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

Haven't seen it. Hope you enjoyed it!

I think it's not out in America yet

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

Haven't seen it. Hope you enjoyed it!

It was ok. 6.5/10 imho.

 

[jumbobob]

Just saw the movie as well, I found it a bit underwhelming. Was also far too long.
The "escape" scenes are extremely cheesy.

I think I read somewhere that the story went through a massive amount of drafts but the story is pretty weak. It honestly seems like they planned the movie backwards: taking the interesting stuff (last 15mins maybe) and then tacking on the sci-fi stuff for the rest of the 2 hours.

Anyway I see Release 3 just dropped, I think that'll be way more entertaining

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

Just saw the movie as well, I found it a bit underwhelming. Was was also far too long.
I "escape" scenes are extremely cheesy.

I think I read somewhere that the story went through a massive amount of drafts but the story is pretty weak. It honestly seems like they planned the movies backwards: taking the interesting stuff (last 15mins maybe) and then tacking on the sci-fi stuff for the rest of the 2 hours.

Anyway I see Release 3 just dropped, I think that'll be way mor entertaining

Not really! I've seen that as well.
We got ORBS this time!

 

[jdog]

Just saw the movie as well, I found it a bit underwhelming. Was also far too long.
The "escape" scenes are extremely cheesy.

I think I read somewhere that the story went through a massive amount of drafts but the story is pretty weak. It honestly seems like they planned the movie backwards: taking the interesting stuff (last 15mins maybe) and then tacking on the sci-fi stuff for the rest of the 2 hours.

Anyway I see Release 3 just dropped, I think that'll be way more entertaining

Man, "underwhelming" was the word that popped into my head at the end of the movie as well.

The first "remote control" scene and some of the chase segments made me think of the chase scenes in the last Indiana Jones movie, in that I found myself wondering when they were going to end.

 

[MapperGuy]

So no aliens put in an appearance? Or only in flashbacks?
How disappointing.
Surely the aliens rescuing the people fleeing from the Men In Black would have made a better story.

 

[jumbobob]

Man, "underwhelming" was the word that popped into my head at the end of the movie as well.

The first "remote control" scene and some of the chase segments made me think of the chase scenes in the last Indiana Jones movie, in that I found myself wondering when they were going to end.

I get the impression this was maybe for an audience in the 15-25 age range (something like that, I don't know).
If you actively follow the DoW releases, Youtube stuff and debunks etc then the movie is not worth the time.

If you're new to the whole NHI, UAP, whistleblower, debunking thing then I think you MIGHT find the movie entertaining.

 

[jdog]

So no aliens put in an appearance? Or only in flashbacks?
How disappointing.
Surely the aliens rescuing the people fleeing from the Men In Black would have made a better story.

I would say it's not a tightly plotted story. Lots of stuff just happens either by coincidence or by the intervention of an off-screen entity so powerful that the characters are mere pawns.

It may be a tell that the first scene in the movie is set at a wrestling match.

 

[Gary C]

NDT interviews Spielberg about his film and the thinking behind it.

Steven Spielberg Believes in Aliens

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rIu22PVFG4

Why does Spielberg have so many alien movies? Spielberg reflects on a career defined by the unknown, from his very first film to Close Encounters, E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial, and War of the Worlds. He traces his renewed fascination with UFOs to a 2017 New York Times article. Is there enough evidence of aliens out there? If the government were to find aliens, should they tell us? We explore how smartphones have turned the entire population into a crowdsourced surveillance network, and whether the timing of government file releases around the film's debut is really just a coincidence.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction: Steve Spielberg
02:43 - The Role of Eyes
04:57 - Disclosing the Aliens
08:38 - Spielberg's Signature
09:53 - Empathy as a Theme
11:00 - Do We Have A Right to Know?
13:13 - Will Aliens be Evil?
15:23 - Does Everyone Want the Government to Disclose Aliens?
19:10 - Introduction: David Koepp
20:37 - The Role of the Screenwriter
22:34 - Balancing Science and Fiction
27:43 - Primal Fears
35:05 - Motivating Villans
34:18 - Aliens Are People Too
37:48 - Are We the Evil Aliens?
39:35 - Doing the Right Thing
41:39 - The Day the Earth Stood Still
44:20 - Would Aliens Bring People Together?
47:22 - Speaking Alien
50:58 - We Want to Know the Truth

 

[Onyx]

Wanted to put my thoughts down on this movie since I just saw it earlier today (with some spoilers).

I did very much enjoy the movie, but it's by no means perfect, and I wish certain aspects were better expanded or fleshed out. Ironically, it really felt like it ended just as things were getting really good. The ending was also surprisingly cryptic.
To some, this might be a let down, and I completely understand why it would be interpreted that way. Yet for some reason, this didn't upset or disappoint me (at least not right now). All this did was make me want more. I really, really want a sequel; Some kind of continuation would be greatly appreciated (even though this is very much not going to happen).

One "criticism" I do have was the unfortunate lack of any interaction with the aliens, outside of the numerous archival videos we are shown and the ending itself. Even maybe some hints at their motivations for interacting with humanity in the first place would've been cool. However, it might have been intentional to rarely show any flesh and blood extraterrestrials to make the ending more impactful.

I might have more thoughts on it after further digesting the movie, but thats all for now.

 

[MapperGuy]

All this did was make me want more. I really, really want a sequel;

Well, I guess that ending was just the right amount of cryptic then wasn't it.

 

[Fritzkquzerk]

I was discussing it with some friends today, they say they didn't like the whole "humanity is not ready for aliens, religions and culture would shatter!".
Yeah, not really, nobody really thinks so anymore (apart from some UFO figures).
I think it's a bit of an old idea.

 

[jumbobob]

I was discussing it with some friends today, they say they didn't like the whole "humanity is not ready for aliens, religions and culture would shatter!".
Yeah, not really, nobody really thinks so anymore (apart from some UFO figures).
I think it's a bit of an old idea.

I've seen a few discussions stating that proof of aliens would send the religious world into a spin as it implies their god could potentially be the alien. There are also counter arguments from others that proof of aliens would not change their beliefs.

I guess there would be a large range on people and their acceptance/understanding of it, from the ultra religious to atheists and everything in between.

I was going to make a joke and insert a picture of the alien in the wheelchair from the movie, but I think its been classified...

 

[John J.]

I've seen a few discussions stating that proof of aliens would send the religious world into a spin as it implies their god could potentially be the alien.

I think that's unlikely, the current major religions have been remarkably resilient over at least several centuries, through plagues, famine, wars and revolutions, deliberate suppression/ persecution in some places, the enlightenment and expansion of scientific literacy, and critical/ secular study of religious texts and teachings (the latter arguably much more prevalent in Christian majority populations, yet Christianity is the most popular faith).
The leadership (and core congregations) of major faiths/ denominations probably won't have their faith shaken by proof of ETI, a possibility that at least some must have considered. As far as I know none of the core teachings of world religions (Christianity, Islam Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism etc.) rule out the existence of extraterrestrial life.

Different religious thinkers have said different things about the possibility of ETI. As with other contemporary topics not explicitly referred to in traditional teachings, viewpoints vary and are rarely considered as core teachings or as having great religious authority.

In a 2008 statement, José Gabriel Funes, head of the Vatican Observatory, said "Just as there is a multiplicity of creatures on earth, there can be other beings, even intelligent, created by God. This is not in contrast with our faith because we can't put limits on God's creative freedom".

Wikipedia, Exotheology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotheology

The same Wikipedia article has a quote from the NASA-commissioned Brookings Institution report of 1960, "Proposed Studies on the Implications of Peaceful Space Activities for Human Affairs",

The positions of the major American religious denominations, the Christian sects, and the Eastern religions on the matter of extraterrestrial life needs elucidation...For them, the discovery of other life-rather than any other space product-would be electrifying... For these faiths, evidence and/or official acknowledgement of extraterrestrial intelligence could prove especially damaging. Official governmental disclosure of an intelligent extraterrestrial reality... ...will have a large influence formulating interpretation and hence public responses.

However, how the Brookings author came to these conclusions is not stated. It might be more an opinion than anything evidence-based.
(I suspect the report, and the use of "disclosure", might have had some influence on later Ufology views on the subject).

Belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent creator God (or gods) remains widespread, and it's hard to see why contact with ETI would impact this, even if the ETI volunteered that they had radically different beliefs, or were dismissive of religion. Not many people of faith have their beliefs shaken because they read or hear a critique from a supposedly better-educated person.

The idea that religions are based on, or have included elements of, contact with extraterrestrials in the past was famously put forward by Erich von Däniken's Chariots of the Gods?, 1968, an influential "ancient astronaut" work. It was widely read, but had no perceptible impact on religious faith. (Unrelated to the hypothetical question of contact with ETI, much of von Däniken's work has been shown to be mistaken/ misleading).

 

[jumbobob]

I think that's unlikely, the current major religions have been remarkably resilient over at least several centuries, through plagues, famine, wars and revolutions, deliberate suppression/ persecution in some places, the enlightenment and critical/ secular study of religious texts and teachings (the latter arguably much more prevalent in Christian majority populations, yet Christianity is the most popular faith).

I think that's the theory which seems to be holding. But when you have people using the word 'demonic' to describe UAP's, things could change.

There was even a thought that if NHI are revealed to have superior tech and life, there could be a group of people that start worshipping them as godly beings or their own religion.

 

[John J.]

...when you have people using the word 'demonic' to describe UAP's, things could change.

Well, a very small minority of people, possibly including J.D. Vance (see JD Vance Says UFOs Are Actually Demons thread).
Small numbers of people have always held unusual views (or perhaps more commonly, have briefly proposed bizarre ideas).
The UAP= demons idea is dependent on (1) some UAP actually being a previously unidentified phenomenon and (2) the existence of demons that are objectively visible regardless of the religious beliefs of the observer, neither of which is demonstrated.
UAP = demons is in opposition to the idea that UAP are of extraterrestrial origin in any scientific sense. I think its proponents (mistakenly, IMO) see it as supportive of their traditional religious beliefs, not that their religion suggests, or UAP sightings are caused by, the existence of aliens.

There was even a thought that if NHI are revealed to have superior tech and life, there could be a group of people that start worshipping them as godly beings or their own religion.

Maybe, there might be precedents (now much contested) from history/ anthropology. It's a common theme in science fiction.

There's a popular belief that Spanish Conquistadors so awed the indigenous American populations that they were mistaken for gods or religious/ mythical figures, but it's likely this was propaganda by Spanish writers of the time and later;
"The Mexica Didn't Believe the Conquistadors were Gods", JSTOR Daily, 17 January 2020, Matthew Wills https://daily.jstor.org/the-mexica-didnt-believe-the-conquistadors-were-gods/
Some parts of the Wikipedia article "White Gods" relate to this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_gods

The so-called cargo cults (itself a contentious term) of New Guinea and some Pacific islands might be a consequence of relatively small, isolated populations with pre-industrial revolution levels of technology being exposed to "modern" technology (sometimes in a dramatic way, e.g. the rapid construction of a busy airbase during WW2).
However, other factors, not just the technology per se, may have played a part,

Cargo cults were typically created by individual leaders, or big men in the Melanesian culture. The leaders typically held cult rituals well away from established towns and colonial authorities, thus making reliable information about these practices very difficult to acquire

(Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult) so maybe some local leaders (in small communities) sought to associate their traditional power/ status with the undeniable power of the nearby visitors.

But even in the areas where these types of cargo cults originated, they were small and not reflective of majority belief.
Some discussion of cargo cults, and arguably analogous beliefs amongst UFO enthusiasts, from post #4 on, "UFO Landing Stations???" thread.

Though I don't have citable evidence, it seems in most cases of people encountering others with more advanced technology, they understand that those technologies -although they may be astonishing or alarming- are associated with their bearers/ users, not religious manifestations.

There have been a number of religious groups/ cults that have adopted ideas from the UFO narrative and from science fiction, e.g. the Heaven's Gate cult (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group). Scientology was founded by SF writer L. Ron Hubbard, and contains teachings that many critics think are little different to (not very good) science fiction.

If we ever find good evidence of ETI, or establish some form of communication, we don't know what the circumstances will be or what will happen. The history of our own technological development would suggest that any ETI would have science and technology significantly more advanced than our own: we have had radio telescopes for less than a century, we are not a star-faring culture (although we've sent a handful of probes creeping toward interstellar space).
But the concept of more advanced extraterrestrial cultures is widely known, at least in many developed countries.
I doubt many reasonably well-educated people would mistake evidence of an advanced ETI as being a religious event. Depending on the nature of a hypothetical contact, proof of/ communication with ETI might in practical terms be an irrelevance to many (most?) around the world, although of great interest to many of us.

If some people choose to worship extraterrestrials in the wake of proof of/ contact with ETI, that's up to them. Deifying others on the basis of their having superior technology doesn't seem very sophisticated, and (despite some historical claims) it isn't a path many humans encountering more technologically advanced societies have taken in the past.