Scientific paper stating airborne barium releases 'responsible' for human illness

Woody

Member
Woody, you are not being responsive, as usual. You claimed DNR was looking into it. I asked WHO at DNR.

What ou describe sound like white pine blister rust. It affects young trees most because it first attacks needle bearing wood.

Most likely what you are seeing is not something wrong with soil, as that would manifest in most all plants, not just a couple of species.
Try to stay calm. Remember that your water sample was found to have been taken under unacceptable conditions likely to have been contaminated,
and you have refused to re-test. Reproducibility is the hallmark of a scientific inquiry, and if you aren't willing to show repeatability, you aren't doing science.
Considering I work every day and run my own business, I can't be as responsive as you may desire....and sometimes I sleep too. As I say, if you all came here you would agree. And if pictures would ever load you could see it too. My concern is worthy of noting, the fire potential is very great with the current condition.
 

Woody

Member
Did you mean to link to something? Here's what I'm talking about: Minnesota DNR: Pine Bark Beetles (I see that it says there has been a lot of drought-related activity.)

I believe that MN does have one well-established exotic pine bark beetle species, Tomicus piniperda, which also bores into the shoots of healthy trees (and thus is called "pine shoot beetle"). But the state also has a few species of native bark beetles which are common and economically important.
This is affecting the red Norway pine we have plentiful here, and my point is this regarding drought and natures ability to adapt and evolve. My sister and I were talking the other day because the deer eat the bark of birch trees during the winter and current depletion of the birch in the state being lost from diseases. She told me the DNR had found the deer had adapted and are eating other sources they have not typically eaten in the past, I forget what it is, but my point is if the beetle is pushed to starvation, can adapt and move to another species. The issue is this, what can consume such a large vast of land so quickly? I am sure we will find out, but its new and invasive.
 

Woody

Member
Anyone else think this thread went waayyy off topic ages ago?!
I don't think so, for this reason, we are talking about airborne particles and the effects of barrium and other elements. The first signs are going to be volatile species, like a canary in a mine shaft. Additionally, because human exposure through dermal and oral exposure tends to often have little effect, our bodies frequently react differently to inhalation effects of these very same chemicals. Vegetation is expected to be the first visual effects from this process of aerial distribution of any chemicals.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
This is affecting the red Norway pine we have plentiful here, and my point is this regarding drought and natures ability to adapt and evolve. My sister and I were talking the other day because the deer eat the bark of birch trees during the winter and current depletion of the birch in the state being lost from diseases. She told me the DNR had found the deer had adapted and are eating other sources they have not typically eaten in the past, I forget what it is, but my point is if the beetle is pushed to starvation, can adapt and move to another species. The issue is this, what can consume such a large vast of land so quickly? I am sure we will find out, but its new and invasive.

A generalist herbivore like deer and a pine bark beetle are two very different critters in terms of behavioral plasticity. Based on that MN-DNR article, it sounds as though your area is seeing a lot of pine mortality, due to multiple years of drought stress and associated bark beetle activity. This isn't going to cause pines to go extinct.

As an aside, I find it weird that you Minnesotans call it "Norway" pine, since it's native to North America. Where I went to college and grad school in Michigan, we called it red pine.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Is there any evidence that any chemical in the ground is causing an increase in these beetles? I can't see how it could.

"I am sure we will find out, but its new and invasive". I do not understand that comment. Are you saying that there is a NEW disease effecting pines? What does the state say it is?
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Woody, show us the math for how much material is needed to change the ph of soil on one acre of your own land. Then extrapolate the figure you get to your own county in Minnesota. The divide the total by the cargo capacity of whatever airplane you like. I guarantee that the figure will be so tremendous you will see the folly of any claims that soil PH could EVER be changed by aircraft.

Do it, or shut up, because I have already done this sort of figure and that is what I found.

Come on, I dare you to show these figures. This is a test of whether or not you have even thought this through to plausibility or are just blathering.
 

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
A generalist herbivore like deer and a pine bark beetle are two very different critters in terms of behavioral plasticity. Based on that MN-DNR article, it sounds as though your area is seeing a lot of pine mortality, due to multiple years of drought stress and associated bark beetle activity. This isn't going to cause pines to go extinct.

As an aside, I find it weird that you Minnesotans call it "Norway" pine, since it's native to North America. Where I went to college and grad school in Michigan, we called it red pine.


Last year was extremely dry for the area Woody is talking about. I lost three "evergreen" type trees last year and it was directly related to drought. Also, they kept their needles.
 

Woody

Member
A generalist herbivore like deer and a pine bark beetle are two very different critters in terms of behavioral plasticity. Based on that MN-DNR article, it sounds as though your area is seeing a lot of pine mortality, due to multiple years of drought stress and associated bark beetle activity. This isn't going to cause pines to go extinct.

As an aside, I find it weird that you Minnesotans call it "Norway" pine, since it's native to North America. Where I went to college and grad school in Michigan, we called it red pine.
You betcha, there is different linguistics everywhere we go LOL
 

Woody

Member
Is there any evidence that any chemical in the ground is causing an increase in these beetles? I can't see how it could.

"I am sure we will find out, but its new and invasive". I do not understand that comment. Are you saying that there is a NEW disease effecting pines? What does the state say it is?
Its new, State is looking into it due to the speed, species specific, and vast area, all of these have to be taken into account. Beetles native to areas in Iowa and Missouri could now sustain our environment, so invasive species are possible, or massive reproduction due to the warm winters. Could also be a species evolving, or even environmental, we can speculate but will all have to wait. But it does need to be considered an area of concern.2013-06-21 16.02.14.jpg2013-06-21 15.53.55.jpg These are the 2 specific species affected statewide
 

Woody

Member
Last year was extremely dry for the area Woody is talking about. I lost three "evergreen" type trees last year and it was directly related to drought. Also, they kept their needles.
I agree, the heat has taken its share, and as a drought hits, its also going to take out a great deal of the forests, and we see this in the Oaks, Elms and Maples too. This is species specific statewide.
 

Woody

Member
Its new, State is looking into it due to the speed, species specific, and vast area, all of these have to be taken into account. Beetles native to areas in Iowa and Missouri could now sustain our environment, so invasive species are possible, or massive reproduction due to the warm winters. Could also be a species evolving, or even environmental, we can speculate but will all have to wait. But it does need to be considered an area of concern.View attachment 3293View attachment 3294 These are the 2 specific species affected statewide
All the young ones in the area are dead and this is how they move to the midsize trees, the larger ones are just beginning to show these same signs. In this area every tree looked like this, dead or dying as it was a massive grove of them along a lake. On low ground we do not expect to see the types of damage we would on high ground, this is hitting everywhere, shaded areas, high ground and low ground, it doesn't matter.
 

Woody

Member
A generalist herbivore like deer and a pine bark beetle are two very different critters in terms of behavioral plasticity. Based on that MN-DNR article, it sounds as though your area is seeing a lot of pine mortality, due to multiple years of drought stress and associated bark beetle activity. This isn't going to cause pines to go extinct.

As an aside, I find it weird that you Minnesotans call it "Norway" pine, since it's native to North America. Where I went to college and grad school in Michigan, we called it red pine.
Can you identify the types, thinkin the one is Eastern White Pine, the Juniper may not be native, as the White Pine isn't either and was brought here years ago.
 

Woody

Member
A generalist herbivore like deer and a pine bark beetle are two very different critters in terms of behavioral plasticity. Based on that MN-DNR article, it sounds as though your area is seeing a lot of pine mortality, due to multiple years of drought stress and associated bark beetle activity. This isn't going to cause pines to go extinct.

As an aside, I find it weird that you Minnesotans call it "Norway" pine, since it's native to North America. Where I went to college and grad school in Michigan, we called it red pine.
Pine beetle is ruled out, you can see the crest of the tree is the last to go, starts on the outer branches at lower levels and they die upwards. The pine beetle begins at the crown. could be another species though, or altered patterns of the beetle with this species, many possibilities and this I believe we can agree with, but the signs in the photos, knowing they cover over a known 7,200 square miles in a year, as a wildlife biologist, should prompt immediate concern.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Where is your quote from?

I found these.

http://www.andovermn.gov/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={A3A7D0AC-B87E-43A5-9FB3-7BF7DA907722}&DE={C3CD22DF-DCD6-4C7C-8D00-554DA9C901FE}


http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/forest_health/barkbeetles/index.html


 

Woody

Member
Where is your quote from?

I found these.

http://www.andovermn.gov/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={A3A7D0AC-B87E-43A5-9FB3-7BF7DA907722}&DE={C3CD22DF-DCD6-4C7C-8D00-554DA9C901FE}


http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/forest_health/barkbeetles/index.html


"How can I tell if my pines are infested with bark beetles?

You'll notice several large branches or the top half of the tree with discolored needles. These branches are dead and do not have new growth. Pine bark beetle activity begins in the upper crown and progressively moves down the stem." Same web site
 

Woody

Member
Where is your quote from?

I found these.

http://www.andovermn.gov/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={A3A7D0AC-B87E-43A5-9FB3-7BF7DA907722}&DE={C3CD22DF-DCD6-4C7C-8D00-554DA9C901FE}


http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/forest_health/barkbeetles/index.html


I believe, by the way they are dying, it is coming from the ground because it begins at the base of the tree and works up, either some kind of poisoning, like what we saw with DDT years ago, could be different sprays getting into the ground water, a root infested beetle perhaps, or aerial, further research is needed, I think we can agree here.
 

Woody

Member
I found this article interesting on the impacts of Aluminum Toxicity on plant life, and how it alters the roots cells and prevents them from lengthening. Different species have different effects, some are lethal while others are not affected. I haven't researched it, but I am sure they have something on Barium and vegetation. http://www.academicjournals.org/ajb/PDF/pdf2010/29Dec Special Review/Chen et al.pdf With Magnesium I found that there is a balance necessary in the soils, quanity is not a factor as much as balance of the two. They even state they do not fully understand this process but an alteration of either compound creates an acidic soil that vegetation reacts to.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I believe, by the way they are dying, it is coming from the ground because it begins at the base of the tree and works up, either some kind of poisoning, like what we saw with DDT years ago, could be different sprays getting into the ground water, a root infested beetle perhaps, or aerial, further research is needed, I think we can agree here.

HOLD IT ! Why the reference to DDT? DDT is a PESTICIDE not an herbicide. It effected birds not trees.
 

Woody

Member
HOLD IT ! Why the reference to DDT? DDT is a PESTICIDE not an herbicide. It effected birds not trees.
I understand this, I was just referencing a time when man did something that had adverse side effects, wrong analogy I guess, but my meaning is that it is very possible that man is screwin things up again.
 

Steve Funk

Senior Member.
With Magnesium I found that there is a balance necessary in the soils, quanity is not a factor as much as balance of the two. They even state they do not fully understand this process but an alteration of either compound creates an acidic soil that vegetation reacts to.
I couldn't find that in the paper. It did say that soil acidity is increasing due to farm practices and acid rain. It also said aluminum is basically inert in soils that are slightly acid or neutral.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I would think that drought would be an easy explanation. Young trees without well developed root systems.

Can you post a link to what the state is saying about this. I have looked but can not see to find one.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I found this article interesting on the impacts of Aluminum Toxicity on plant life, and how it alters the roots cells and prevents them from lengthening. Different species have different effects, some are lethal while others are not affected....<snip> http://www.academicjournals.org/ajb/PDF/pdf2010/29Dec Special Review/Chen et al.pdf

Aluminium toxicity is well known and has been since at least the 1920's - however the toxicity is not due to simple aluminum in the soil - it is due to aluminium IONS in the soil - which only exist when the soil is acidic - as you paper states in the first paragraph. So it is acidic soil that causes aluminium to become toxic - not aluminum that creates acidic soil

I haven't researched it, but I am sure they have something on Barium and vegetation.

It's not hard to find - Barium toxicity effects in soybean plants.

With Magnesium I found that there is a balance necessary in the soils, quanity is not a factor as much as balance of the two. They even state they do not fully understand this process but an alteration of either compound creates an acidic soil that vegetation reacts to.

the paper does not say that aluminium affects acidity - the uncertainty is with hte mechanism by which aluminium affects plants certainly, but as above it is acid soil that creates aluminium toxicity - not aluminium that makes acid soil - you can put as much aluminium into soil as you like and it will not affect the acidity.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
Can you identify the types, thinkin the one is Eastern White Pine, the Juniper may not be native, as the White Pine isn't either and was brought here years ago.
Not white pine, that looks like either red pine (Pinus resinosa) or Austrian pine (P. nigra). As juveniles they're not always easy to tell apart at a distance. The pattern of dieback looks typical for a fungal disease that either species can get (but Austrian pine is particularly susceptible to), called diplodia tip blight (caused by Diplodia pinea, =Sphaeropsis sapinea).

The juniper is eastern redcedar (Juniperus virginiana).

Pine beetle is ruled out, you can see the crest of the tree is the last to go, starts on the outer branches at lower levels and they die upwards. The pine beetle begins at the crown. could be another species though, or altered patterns of the beetle with this species, many possibilities and this I believe we can agree with, but the signs in the photos, knowing they cover over a known 7,200 square miles in a year, as a wildlife biologist, should prompt immediate concern.
Drought stress can show up in many different ways, including greater susceptibility to and impact from pests and diseases. Trees that are stressed by drought will more attractive and susceptible to stress-responding insects like bark beetles. Trees that are dealing with a root disease issue may be "pushed over the edge" by the added water stress. And so forth. Given that you have a known major, region-wide stress factor, what specific evidence is there that there is a new invasive organism or unusual pollutant at work?
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
Aluminium toxicity is well known and has been since at least hte 1920's - however the toxicity is not due to simple aluminum in the soil - it is due to aluminium IONS in the soil - which only exist when the soil is acidic - as you paper states in the first paragraph. So it is acidic soil that causes aluminium to become toxic - not aluminum that creates acidic sool
Also, an important thing for Woody to understand is that there is a wide range of tolerance in soil pH and the presence of Al+++ ions among different plant species. Many crop species do best in relatively high pH soil, but these pines and junipers do well in acid soils, and are more tolerant of soluble aluminum. They're not going to be the indicator species for increased acidity or Al availability. The pines in particular are likely to suffer from nutrient deficiencies in high-pH soil, it's often a problem in urban landscapes that are irrigated with alkaline water.
 

Woody

Member
I couldn't find that in the paper. It did say that soil acidity is increasing due to farm practices and acid rain. It also said aluminum is basically inert in soils that are slightly acid or neutral.

The paper was based on ALuminum, you have to look up farming techniques.
 

Woody

Member
I would think that drought would be an easy explanation. Young trees without well developed root systems.

Can you post a link to what the state is saying about this. I have looked but can not see to find one.
I know, they have just been informed.
 

Woody

Member
Aluminium toxicity is well known and has been since at least the 1920's - however the toxicity is not due to simple aluminum in the soil - it is due to aluminium IONS in the soil - which only exist when the soil is acidic - as you paper states in the first paragraph. So it is acidic soil that causes aluminium to become toxic - not aluminum that creates acidic soil



It's not hard to find - Barium toxicity effects in soybean plants.



the paper does not say that aluminium affects acidity - the uncertainty is with hte mechanism by which aluminium affects plants certainly, but as above it is acid soil that creates aluminium toxicity - not aluminium that makes acid soil - you can put as much aluminium into soil as you like and it will not affect the acidity.
A good starting point for understanding the balance of magnesium and chloride in the soil, research farming for more information, they keep a balanced soil as per crops. All vegetation acts differently, but today I was noticing its not the young ones, its all of them, some large ones are showing the beginning signs. There was a land scape outfit on the way to work today but couldn't stop and an entire row of their junipers were dead and every juniper in every yard in so many homes are all dead, I get you all some pictures tomorrow demonstrating what is happening. You will also have to note that these areas are all over, not consolidated to on section of the state. Its not all junipers, just one, and not all pines, just one.
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/garden/07425.html
 

Woody

Member
Not white pine, that looks like either red pine (Pinus resinosa) or Austrian pine (P. nigra). As juveniles they're not always easy to tell apart at a distance. The pattern of dieback looks typical for a fungal disease that either species can get (but Austrian pine is particularly susceptible to), called diplodia tip blight (caused by Diplodia pinea, =Sphaeropsis sapinea).

The juniper is eastern redcedar (Juniperus virginiana).


Drought stress can show up in many different ways, including greater susceptibility to and impact from pests and diseases. Trees that are stressed by drought will more attractive and susceptible to stress-responding insects like bark beetles. Trees that are dealing with a root disease issue may be "pushed over the edge" by the added water stress. And so forth. Given that you have a known major, region-wide stress factor, what specific evidence is there that there is a new invasive organism or unusual pollutant at work?
Thanks for your insight, I am waiting confirmation with my step daughter as she is a professional in the field and can walk up to it and see it first hand. Drought can be ruled out, they are dying in the forests and the peoples yards. For example, Rays Junipers died and he watered them throughout the year, as have many homeowners and they are also dying along the waters edges and areas where young saplings with smaller roots are doing fine. It appears to me as if the problems are in the roots the way they are dying, just hard to believe its a beetle that moves this fast and far in such a short time.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Woody, show us the math for how much material is needed to change the ph of soil on one acre of your own land. Then extrapolate the figure you get to your own county in Minnesota. The divide the total by the cargo capacity of whatever airplane you like. I guarantee that the figure will be so tremendous you will see the folly of any claims that soil PH could EVER be changed by aircraft.

Do it, or shut up, because I have already done this sort of figure and that is what I found.

Come on, I dare you to show these figures. This is a test of whether or not you have even thought this through to plausibility or are just blathering.

I would go a step further. Given the area has been under drought conditions for a number of years does that mean less rainfall. The air would not get cleared of the stuff and would build up like a smog.

There are so many holes in this. The state is been blanket bombed with aluminium yet there is lush vegetation everywhere.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
Thanks for your insight, I am waiting confirmation with my step daughter as she is a professional in the field and can walk up to it and see it first hand. Drought can be ruled out, they are dying in the forests and the peoples yards. For example, Rays Junipers died and he watered them throughout the year, as have many homeowners and they are also dying along the waters edges and areas where young saplings with smaller roots are doing fine. It appears to me as if the problems are in the roots the way they are dying, just hard to believe its a beetle that moves this fast and far in such a short time.
Keep in mind that there may be multiple issues going on. The issue that's affecting the pines in your picture is probably not the same issue (or issues) which led to the death of the juniper in the other picture. There are some issues that can affect both species, but in those particular cases, probably not. There are always trees dying and declining in the environment - always. When there's an environmental stress factor it just happens more.

Again, pine bark beetles are always around, they don't have to "move far and fast" to take out stressed trees across the landscape.
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
It is similar, yes, but this is not it because of the needles, I will get a close up tomorrow. Notice the needles turning brown at the ends, these needles are turning brown at the base and dissolving the green outward, opposite direction.

Try taking a pocket knife and cutting along an affected shoot. If it's Diplodia you're likely to see dark resin-soaked areas inside, often bleeding sap on the outside too.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Woody, show us the math for how much material is needed to change the ph of soil on one acre of your own land. Then extrapolate the figure you get to your own county in Minnesota. The divide the total by the cargo capacity of whatever airplane you like. I guarantee that the figure will be so tremendous you will see the folly of any claims that soil PH could EVER be changed by aircraft.

Do it, or shut up, because I have already done this sort of figure and that is what I found.

Come on, I dare you to show these figures. This is a test of whether or not you have even thought this through to plausibility or are just blathering.

Woody, are you capable of this, or not? Or just ignoring because you realize?????

Here is a starting point which may short circuit further speculation. Look at what is required to raise pH from 6.4 to 6.5. Ask yourself if it is plausible for this to be achieved by air?

woody3.JPG
 

Woody

Member
Greetings all,
Thank you for your concern about the dying trees you’ve been seeing. The Forest Health team has just issued a web bulletin that addresses this and other forest health problems around the state: What We're Seeing Now
The issue of dying white and red pine associated with increased bark beetle activity is directly linked to the severe drought that we have experienced in the recent past. Unfortunately, there is little that can be done on trees with significant symptom development. We recommend that you keep what you have healthy at this point by regularly watering your trees. If practical, remove bark beetle-infested trees to reduce future beetle populations/infestations.
For watering and other tree care information, check out http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/caring-pruning.html . If you would like to receive notification of our Forest Insect and Disease Newsletter and forest health updates, click on the red envelope at the bottom of our forest health website: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/forest_health/index.html
Again, thank you for contacting us with your concerns.
Val Cervenka l Forest Health Program Coordinator
Division of Forestry l Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
500 Lafayette Road l Saint Paul, MN 55155
Phone: 651-259-5296
Fax: 651-296-5954

They did not address the Junipers, but apparently this is the culprit.
 

justanairlinepilot

Senior Member.
Greetings all,
Thank you for your concern about the dying trees you’ve been seeing. The Forest Health team has just issued a web bulletin that addresses this and other forest health problems around the state: What We're Seeing Now
The issue of dying white and red pine associated with increased bark beetle activity is directly linked to the severe drought that we have experienced in the recent past. Unfortunately, there is little that can be done on trees with significant symptom development. We recommend that you keep what you have healthy at this point by regularly watering your trees. If practical, remove bark beetle-infested trees to reduce future beetle populations/infestations.
For watering and other tree care information, check out http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/caring-pruning.html . If you would like to receive notification of our Forest Insect and Disease Newsletter and forest health updates, click on the red envelope at the bottom of our forest health website: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/forest_health/index.html
Again, thank you for contacting us with your concerns.
Val Cervenka l Forest Health Program Coordinator
Division of Forestry l Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
500 Lafayette Road l Saint Paul, MN 55155
Phone: 651-259-5296
Fax: 651-296-5954

They did not address the Junipers, but apparently this is the culprit.

Ahem...I hate to say in told you so...but I did tell you so, woody:)
 

Belfrey

Senior Member.
Greetings all,
Thank you for your concern about the dying trees you’ve been seeing. The Forest Health team has just issued a web bulletin that addresses this and other forest health problems around the state: What We're Seeing Now
The issue of dying white and red pine associated with increased bark beetle activity is directly linked to the severe drought that we have experienced in the recent past. Unfortunately, there is little that can be done on trees with significant symptom development. We recommend that you keep what you have healthy at this point by regularly watering your trees. If practical, remove bark beetle-infested trees to reduce future beetle populations/infestations.
For watering and other tree care information, check out http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/caring-pruning.html . If you would like to receive notification of our Forest Insect and Disease Newsletter and forest health updates, click on the red envelope at the bottom of our forest health website: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/forest_health/index.html
Again, thank you for contacting us with your concerns.
Val Cervenka l Forest Health Program Coordinator
Division of Forestry l Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
500 Lafayette Road l Saint Paul, MN 55155
Phone: 651-259-5296
Fax: 651-296-5954

They did not address the Junipers, but apparently this is the culprit.

No surprise there.

Junipers have their own different species of specialist bark beetles, but they can also die of straightforward drought stress, root disease, etc. It's unlikely that bark beetles caused that particular pattern of branch dieback in your picture of the young pines, but like I said, it's normal for multiple issues to be occurring in any given area. Give me a big enough forest stand, I'll find you a dozen different pests and diseases at work - especially when there is a predisposing factor such as drought.
 

Woody

Member
No surprise there.

Junipers have their own different species of specialist bark beetles, but they can also die of straightforward drought stress, root disease, etc. It's unlikely that bark beetles caused that particular pattern of branch dieback in your picture of the young pines, but like I said, it's normal for multiple issues to be occurring in any given area. Give me a big enough forest stand, I'll find you a dozen different pests and diseases at work - especially when there is a predisposing factor such as drought.
I have my state represenative looking into this, he says he knows many gowers that are experiancing many problems such as these.
 

Woody

Member
Ahem...I hate to say in told you so...but I did tell you so, woody:)
Only problkem is, like belfrey said, it doesn't look like that is the culprit here with these pines, and I agree, dying the opposite direction, base outward with the crown the last to go, with the bark beetle the crown is the first to go and works its way down.
 

Woody

Member
No surprise there.

Junipers have their own different species of specialist bark beetles, but they can also die of straightforward drought stress, root disease, etc. It's unlikely that bark beetles caused that particular pattern of branch dieback in your picture of the young pines, but like I said, it's normal for multiple issues to be occurring in any given area. Give me a big enough forest stand, I'll find you a dozen different pests and diseases at work - especially when there is a predisposing factor such as drought.
Although I would agree with you, you will not find many areas where they are well cared for and watered, along with the wild ones, all dying off. Eliminates drought. Its the Arborvitea pyramidal that are no longer able to survive that is being taken out by the masses, just found out.
 
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Gundersen White paper on "Contrails/cirrus optics and radiation" Contrails and Chemtrails 1
KC-10FE Stanford Paper on Global Warming Contrails and Chemtrails 2
Hitstirrer Kuttler's paper: Estimates for time to collapse of WTC1 9/11 262
Mick West Bad science in the paper 'Long term toxicity of a Roundup herbicide and a Roundup-tolerant GM maize' Science and Pseudoscience 120
Mick West Paper: Clarifying the Dominant Sources and Mechanisms of Cirrus Cloud Formation Contrails and Chemtrails 3
Spongebob Has this Government paper been debunked yet? Contrails and Chemtrails 7
solrey Debunked: HAARP rings/scalar squares, etc. validated in paper from Stanford HAARP 257
FlightMuj Explained: NASA documents stating a flat Earth??? Linear Aircraft Models Flat Earth 7
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