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LAX Shooting Conspiracy Theories - Los Angeles Airport - False Flag Theories
- Thread starter Mick West
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I'm not sure who this is addressed to, but I don't think he is a martyr so I'm opting out of the club. Is he hyperbolic? Certainly. It's why I stopped listening to him. But much of his hyperbole is rooted in factual incidents often enough. The bathwater can be dispensed easily enough, but baby isn't going anywhere just because the bathwater is seen for what it is.
Great article.
I'm not one for things "just happening," though. Given all the necessary layers and command chains and such, there doesn't seem to be much room for folks just winging it. Certainly, plans go awry and there will always be unintended consequences re individual events and the like but the idea that things just work out that way is far too passive to explain the trajectories involved.
Alhazred The Sane
Senior Member.
There's always Hanlon's Law to keep in mind too: never attribute to malice that which can be more easily explained by stupidity, or words to that effect. Alhazred's version would be: never attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by greed and/or ignorance. Or words to that effect.
A very subtle distinction and one which is not always discernible.
I didn't see it as justifying or explaining as much as documenting its development.
Greed and conspiracy are joined at the hip, so this seems like a false dichotomy and points to the bastardization of terminology. History has been fueled by conspiracy going back to the dawn of civilization and back room deals are woven into the fabric of the noble lie going back to Plato and beyond. This is why I don't get the instant dismissal and marginalization of cters as paranoid moonbats.
It's also why I don't get the bit about a NWO, whether one is putting the idea forth or batting it aside. There isn't anything new about it beyond the increasing technological capacity to bring it along.
Bill
Senior Member.
It's and interesting article but it ignores the effect of high profile events like LA's Bank of America robbery in 1996 where it became apparent that the public had access to more sophisticated firearms and body armor than was being issued to the police. Nobody wants the police to abuse their power but they do want them to be able to respond to the perceived threat. If the criminals are seen as being well armed and organized it is much easier to accept the need and provide the funding for well armed highly trained units in the police force. Unfortunately once these units are available there is a tendency to use in situations for which they were not originally developed. The more you use your elite forces the easier it is to justify their expense and the easier it is to create abuses of power.
Good point. Of course it begs the question that if there is this massive upsurge in assault rifles, hollow points, mraps, body armor, etc., who exactly is being perceived as the "criminals" and why?
Nothing about any of this ramp up is designed to deal with terrorists, which was the ostensible point of establishing the DHS, so how and why did it get so far off track and who is being protected by this overkill?
Bill
Senior Member.
Well to the general public the criminals would be organized crime, drug cartels, bank robbers, etc. As for the DHS, they are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If they don't prepare for any contingency and the worst happens they get accused of negligence and are vilified by the press, public and politicians. If they do try to prepare for any contingency the are accused of having nefarious motives and seen as the precursors to a fascist state. If I was in their situation I rather be over prepared.
The DHS was established in response to 9/11 as an umbrella for the numerous government intelligence and security agencies when it became clear that the attacks might have been prevented if the different agencies weren't so compartmentalized and spread among so many different departments of the government.
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Massive upsurge? Can we see that on a graph please? Or at least a few figures?
And the point of establishing the DSH was certainly prompted by terrorism, but the department covers far more than that. FEMA, the coast guard, Immigration and border, the Secret Service, customs, the TSA, and others.
Notice that your list of criminals and the being prepared for any contingency don't match up strategically and tactically with the kind of hardware they are stockpiling. What's that about? What are all those hollow points about? Nobody trains with that stuff and the idea that it was a bulk purchase doesn't explain squat. I'm sure you can go to costco and get a great price on a pallet of peanut butter, but after you do wtf are you going to do with all that peanut butter? So what are they over preparing for? Who are they over preparing for?
SR1419
Senior Member.
Are you referring to this/these purchases?
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...ber-bullets-for-use-in-america.599/#post-9965
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...ber-bullets-for-use-in-america.599/#post-9965
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Here's a list of purchase orders and some charts for ammo I found with a quick google.
http://www.prepperpodcast.com/history-dhs-ammunition-purchases/#ixzz24XPSJSbm
Yeah, I know it's a prepper site, but when ya want to find out the score of the football game, you aren't going to find it in the style section of the NYT, right?
Nobody uses hollow points for training, but even if they did, what are they training for? And then there's the all the assault rifles and armored vehicles and body armor. Again, what's all this for?
Minimizing this stuff is no better than hyperbolizing about FEMA camps by next week. Both distort the issue.
Why are there zero purchases in 2004/2005? Obviously that isn't an accurate history of ammo purchases.
Yes they do. All the DHS departments use the same ammo for carry and training.
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Got a link for that?
But even if you are correct, why are they carrying hollow points in the first place and why such large numbers, never mind the rest of the hardware? What scenario can you come up with that justifies such purchases if it is not aimed at civil disturbances on a large scale?
Cairenn
Senior Member.
My understanding is that hollow points are preferred because of lowering the risk of injuries to bystanders.
Despite the ban on military use, hollow-point bullets are one of the most common types of bullets used by civilians and police, [4] which is due largely to the reduced risk of bystanders being hit by over-penetrating or ricocheted bullets, and the increased speed of incapacitation.
In many jurisdictions, even ones such as the United Kingdom, where expanding ammunition is generally prohibited, it is illegal to hunt certain types of game with ammunition that does not expand.[5][6] Some target ranges forbid full metal jacket ammunition, due to its greater tendency to damage metal targets and backstops.
Also, since hollow point rounds expand on impact, they are less likely to penetrate completely through a body and place innocent bystanders in harm’s way by being struck by a stray bullet passing through the body of the intended target. This makes the hollow point round a safer round to use, especially in urban settings. Simply stated, hollow point ammunition is more effective and safer to use.
The hollow point round is not a “specialized round,” as indicated in the article. The hollow point rounds are standard ammunition of law enforcement agencies in the U.S. I was a police officer for twenty-one years. I became a police officer in 1978. My agency used semi-jacketed hollow points as the standard ammunition the entire length of my career, and hollow point ammunition still remains the standard ammunition. In 1999, NYPD was the last major U.S. law enforcement agency in the U.S. to change from ball ammunition to hollow points (see Massad Ayoob, “The Dangers of Over-Penetrating Bullets,” Gun Digest, 19 April 2012).
I think this was all covered in the original thread, but I can't immediately find it. I also think Fox News did a story on it.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...on-40-caliber-bullets-for-use-in-america.599/
HP is used for stopping power and collateral safety, as noted above. Standard LEO use. Not generally used in the military.
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What about this part: What scenario can you come up with that justifies such purchases if it is not aimed at civil disturbances on a large scale?
That seems to be the elephant in the room, along with the armored vehicles. What is Ohio State doing with something like this?
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Bill
Senior Member.
Yes, but the article that was referenced was talking about the militarization of the police forces not the department DHS's supply requisition and I had just discussed one of the reasons behind the public acceptance of a militarized police force. My characterization of the general public's definition of criminals still stands.
In terms of the DHS, while they have differing missions than the local police the do share some similar concerns, they also have the same damned if they do, damned if they don't standards applied to them.
Saving money by buying in bulk, plus I think many of the POs are multi-year, but were misinterpreted as single year.
That seems to be the elephant in the room, along with the armored vehicles. What is Ohio State doing with something like this?
It was free. Federal surplus. So they take that or they spend money on a big SUV. This is potentially more useful in an active shooter situation, which campuses are concerned about. Overkill, but then it's free.
What do you think they are doing with it?
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These purchases were done through a IDIQ contract. Indefinite Duration Indefinite Quantity. This means DHS has established a supplier of ammunition and DHS can just order the amount of ammunition needed until the contract cap is reached. DHS does not need to rebid for each purchase nor do they need to buy the maximum.
I have no idea what they are thinking and see no way to square it with a single shooter scenario. I also don't see how the idea of cost effectiveness via bulk makes any sense either unless there's a valid reason to buy the bulk in the first place.
Given the way things are spinning out of control economically along with the fractious culture wars and the increasing sense of shit/fan, the only logical conclusion is that they are preparing for massive unrest. And yet that is seen as a paranoid scenario even though it's the only one that fits the developments as they are actually playing out. But nobody has offered any other scenario that fits.
Bill
Senior Member.
Civil disturbance on a large scale is one of the things they have to prepared for. It probably won't happen but given all the internet traffic calling various branches of the government fascist and advising people to arm themselves against a government coming to take their guns, freedoms, land, etc. they have to consider the possibility.
Bill
Senior Member.
You have obviously never worked with government procurement. I hate to use anecdotal info but here goes. I was working on a prototype aircraft and we need 10 nut and bolt units. The government required us to order 1000 of them because the bulk discount made the per unit cost cheaper. We put 990 units on the shelf and went on with our work. It made no sense to the engineers and management was attentive when we complained but somewhere in the accounting department someone was able to claim they saved the program a couple of cents a unit on the purchase.
Read my post above. IDIQ contracts set the MAXIMUM amount that can be purchased under the contract. The contract can run INDEFINITELY and involves many purchases. There was no delivery of 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition to DHS. That number represents the ceiling that can be purchased under the contract.
So it's a cart/horse thing. Maybe there wouldn't be such hue and cry if there weren't so many examples of the gov and its agencies abusing so many folks and taking away guns, land, freedoms, etc. I see stories every day and wonder wtf is going on. The abuses produce hostile reactions which produce more abuse, rinse and repeat. But like that article Mick posted highlighted, what was once a last resort has turned into a first response when it comes to the SWAT stuff, never mind all the other crazy abusive police stuff.
Any evidence to support ANY of your claims? The contract thing didn't require that much research. You should try it yourself.
solrey
Senior Member.
Those who have never experienced combat style training have no idea how much ammunition is used in the process of maintaining proficiency with a weapon. I know I went through thousands of rounds during my time in the Army Reserves between basic training and weekend drills. And when I worked armed security for a while I went to the gun range at least once every couple of weeks. Indeed, I practiced with and carried hollow points in my .45 long colt hogleg for their stopping power and reduced chances of collateral damage. When it's a matter of life or death, repetition to the point where shooting quickly and accurately becomes instinctual is essential.
So you practiced a lot. So they are practicing a lot. So what are they practicing so much for and how does it fit into the rest of the scenario re the unrecoverable economy and the culture wars and the increased police overkill?
Trigger Hippie
Senior Member.
Great point. We once went through 50,000 rounds in one afternoon.
What were you training for and how does it apply to the domestic situation?
Odd that there is all this talk about combat situations and how so much practice is needed being used to dismiss the idea that the DHS and police are preparing for a domestic combat situation. Can't say I follow that line of reasoning.
What are you training for? Why do you all keep skipping over the elephant in the room?
J
Joe
Guest
The SPLC is worse than Alex Jones http://cnsnews.com/news/article/chi...-frc-target-using-southern-poverty-law-center
J
Joe
Guest
Dont let them BS you they are and have been training for WROL for quite sometime .What about this part: What scenario can you come up with that justifies such purchases if it is not aimed at civil disturbances on a large scale?
That seems to be the elephant in the room, along with the armored vehicles. What is Ohio State doing with something like this?
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