LAX Shooting Conspiracy Theories - Los Angeles Airport - False Flag Theories

[Landru]

Dont let them BS you they are and have been training for WROL for quite sometime .

Evidence please.

 

[MikeC]

the only elephant in the room I see is your inability to comprehend the nature of the contract - in that it is NOT an order for immediate delivery of a billion rounds, rather it is a contract to supply UP TO the specified number of rounds, over whatever time period it takes to order them.

this thread might help you - https://www.metabunk.org/threads/de...on-40-caliber-bullets-for-use-in-america.599/ - note that the 3 training facilities identified in the first post use over 32 million rounds a year.

 

[Joe]

Well then Joe, I'm sure you're aware that you can't yell fire in a crowded theatre. That's precisely what Jones is doing.

How is saying DHS and TSA are incompetent boobs and do stick their hands down peoples pants yelling fire in a crowded theater ? many things he says seem crazy but many are true . much like the main stream media and SPLC . How is David Barton listed on the SPLC website ? Iv met the man he is the kindest and smartest man Iv met in years . If youy can blame Jones you can blame many others on all sides of the political spectrum . Very Dangerous for our freedom . Yet Twitter has terrorist recruiters tweeting ?

 

[Joe]

Evidence please.

I cant give away my source . or sources .

 

[Bemused to Death]

the only elephant in the room I see is your inability to comprehend the nature of the contract - in that it is NOT an order for immediate delivery of a billion rounds

I never said it did, and it was only one piece of a larger context that you are ignoring.

 

[Landru]

I cant give away my source . or sources .

Evidence of government abuse of power is so secret/easily identifiable to your sources you can't disclose it? Probably not happening on a large scale then.

 

[MikeC]

What were you training for and how does it apply to the domestic situation?

Odd that there is all this talk about combat situations and how so much practice is needed being used to dismiss the idea that the DHS and police are preparing for a domestic combat situation. Can't say I follow that line of reasoning.

As far as I can see no-one is suggesting anything of the sort - domestic law enforcement agencies prepare for "domestic combat situation(s)" as a matter of course.

you alleged something a bit different though:

What scenario can you come up with that justifies such purchases if it is not aimed at civil disturbances on a large scale?

apparently you cannot imagine that officers might use that much ammunition training for normal duties, which might at any minute require them to use their firearms - they do not get 24 hours notice to train up for an incident - they have to be ready IMMEDIATELY

that sort of preparedness requires constant training and IIRC a competent federal LEO in the USA can and should be expected to use 1000 rounds per annum just maintaining that efficiency - this article says that Border Control Police get 250 rounds per quarter - 1000/year. This Google search for "LEO firearm training 1000 rounds" gives many examples of individual courses that require officers to bring 1000 rounds of department pistol ammo or similar.

According to Wiki in 2004 there were about 105,000 Federal gents authorized to make arrests - that means anywhere from 100 million+ rounds just in regular training every year.

 

[Trigger Hippie]

What were you training for...

We were training for weapons proficiency.

...and how does it apply to the domestic situation?

Domestic police forces also train for weapons proficiency.

Odd that there is all this talk about combat situations and how so much practice is needed being used to dismiss the idea that the DHS and police are preparing for a domestic combat situation. Can't say I follow that line of reasoning.

You seem to be taking a leap from training with weapons to "preparing for a domestic combat situation."

 

[MikeC]

I never said it did, and it was only one piece of a larger context that you are ignoring.

I beg to differ - you are clearly hung up on the number of rounds ordered as per my quote from you in my previous post -

What scenario can you come up with that justifies such purchases if it is not aimed at civil disturbances on a large scale?

 

[Bemused to Death]

I beg to differ - you are clearly hung up on the number of rounds ordered as per my quote from you in my previous post -

Right. Purchases of bullets. And mraps. And assault rifles labled as personal defense weapons. And body armor. And automatic pepper spray dispensers. And the top secret clearance security forces for Minnesota and Wisconsin and the rest all against the backdrop of an economy that cannot sustain itself by anyone's measure and all the culture war stuff and surveillance and labeling anyone dissenting against this stuff as extremists and the police abuse that is growing and that sort of thing.

In short, it isn't about just the bullet and yet it gets treated as business as usual. I find that baffling.

 

[MikeC]

Your initial concern was about the number of bullets ordered - are you now not worried about that, or just expanding the issues to avoid discussing it??

the militarization of police is a well known talking point in the mainstream media - perhaps it deserves a thread of its own rather than being tagged onto the LAX shooting.

 

[Bemused to Death]

You seem to be taking a leap from training with weapons to "preparing for a domestic combat situation."

Right. Given the context within which this training is taking place, I haven't seen any reason not to and nobody has provided any sensible reason why I should think otherwise. If you have something that actually addresses any of the context I'm speaking of, I'd love to hear it, but vague bits about bulk purchases and weapons proficiency don't amount to anything of substance.

 

[Bemused to Death]

Your initial concern was about the number of bullets ordered - are you now not worried about that, or just expanding the issues to avoid discussing it??

You obviously haven't been following the thread. All the stuff I just mentioned is a recap of things I've already mentioned along the way, so get off the bullet bit.

 

[MikeC]

You obviously haven't been following the thread.

silly assumption on your part.

All the stuff I just mentioned is a recap of things I've already mentioned along the way, so get off the bullet bit.

you kept raising new issues in a gish gallop of which the "bullet bit" was just the latest at which point I called you on it.

Like so many CT's you seem to have an inability to accept that you're just wrong, so whenever eth evidence gets a bit to much for you to continue your rant without looking really silly you raise another issue, then another one, then another....you never seem to get to realise that you make it look like you just don't understand how the real world works.

Again - if you want to discuss the militarization of the police I suggest a thread on that topic is more appropriate.

 

[Cairenn]

No they aren't. Maybe if you were willing to go the SPLC site and see what their 'hate map' is. It not THEM hateing others. It is listing of groups that dislike entire groups of folks. Chick fila is not on their list. It seems that story is akin to the 'Twinkie Defense'. Their list includes groups of all types.

The Southern Poverty Law Center counted 1,007 active hate groups in the United States in 2012. Only organizations and their chapters known to be active during 2012 are included.
All hate groups have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics[ex/]

Content from External Source

 

[Cairenn]

No they aren't. Maybe if you were willing to go the SPLC site and see what their 'hate map' is. It not THEM hateing others. It is listing of groups that dislike entire groups of folks. Chick fila is not on their list. It seems that story is akin to the 'Twinkie Defense'. Their list includes groups of all types.

The Southern Poverty Law Center counted 1,007 active hate groups in the United States in 2012. Only organizations and their chapters known to be active during 2012 are included.
All hate groups have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics[ex/]

Content from External Source

 

[Trigger Hippie]

Right. Given the context within which this training is taking place, I haven't seen any reason not to and nobody has provided any sensible reason why I should think otherwise.

So your default position is to assume they're preparing for combat against civilians until proven otherwise.

 

[JeffreyNotGeoffrey]

SPLC identifies hate groups. They never advocate anything being done to said hate groups except to expose them and possibly get them to lose outside funding. I don't see how labeling people for hating other minorities, women, and tha gayz is itself hateful or anywhere near as bad as the garbage that Alex Jones spews. Just another attempt to label something in the vein of I'm rubber/You are glue.

 

[Cairenn]

If the criminals have 'assault weapons' why shouldn't the police?

 

[AluminumTheory]

Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Content from External Source

Alot of people words like fascism, sociaism, communism, etc without understanding what they really mean or key differences and similarities between them. Political ideologies are rarely absolute in nature as ideas from varying ideologies will borrow ideas from one another.

I will admit that us seems to be leaning more towards fascism in some respects but I'm far from declaring the U.S. as a fascist nation.
Fascism is better described as a mutation of socialism and nationalism. Fascism alllows capitalism and support the profit motive in a limited capacity to serve the state. Socialism is applied not in a traditional (egalitarian) sense, but rather to only benefit a preferred group of individuals which often leaves out minorities, the mentally and physically disadvantaged, undesirables, etc.. It promotes social Darwinism in that sense. Fascism applies conservative doctrine toward social issues. Fascists are generally anti-LGBT, supportive of gender roles, anti-choice (abortion), and ultranationalist. The United States has made great strides towards progress regarding the two former issues, abortion on the other hand seems to depend on where you live, and nationalism is inevitable regardless of where you live. While there has been alot of suppression of labor unions here in the U.S., that is hardly a core tenet of fascism. Mussolini's Italy was very anti-union, but he did however vastly improve the financial lives and working conditions. Hitler's Germany on the other hand took advantage of the labor unions via the German Labour Front, and established workers labor laws, higher wages, and protection from termination. A helpful hint would be to take note of the full name of the nazi party. They most certainly were not anti union.


To call a national fascist or socialist for expressing a few attributes is just plain ignorance. It would be the equivalent of calling China a lassiez-faire capitalist nation because they've gone through some economic reform. Are OSHA and the U.S. Dept of Labor fascist institutions because they protect workers?


The points this article illustrates are better attributed neo-conservatism which has been the dominant political force in the U.S. since Nixon, and later Reagan.

But while we're on the topic, would it interest you to know that conspiracy theories were a core tenet of fascist propaganda?

Alex Jones it some ways fits the bill of a fascist for his support of gender roles, social conservatism, declaring dissenting opinions as treasonous, and yes... spreading conspiracy propaganda. I suppose there is a modicum of truth to what Glenn Beck said about him .

 

[mynym]

So you're default position is to assume they're preparing for combat against civilians until proven otherwise.

Do you disagree with what Bill wrote further up in this thread?

If they don't prepare for any contingency and the worst happens they get accused of negligence and are vilified by the press, public and politicians. If they do try to prepare for any contingency the are accused of having nefarious motives and seen as the precursors to a fascist state. If I was in their situation I rather be over prepared.
....
[Paraphrasing:] Civil disturbance on a large scale is something that they should be prepared for.

From that perspective even if they were preparing for combat against civilians it's something that they should do.

What's wrong with a reasonable default position being that of assuming that's what they're doing, given all the evidence and the fact that many think that's exactly what they should be doing anyway?

 

[AluminumTheory]

If the criminals have 'assault weapons' why shouldn't the police?

Given the kind of weapons that are legal and attainable in the United States, I would hardly expect the police to limit their arsenals to night sticks, stun guns and pistols.

 

[Joe]

Evidence of government abuse of power is so secret/easily identifiable to your sources you can't disclose it? Probably not happening on a large scale then.

" Probably not happening on a large scale then." Doesnt mean they are not training .

No they aren't. Maybe if you were willing to go the SPLC site and see what their 'hate map' is. It not THEM hateing others. It is listing of groups that dislike entire groups of folks. Chick fila is not on their list. It seems that story is akin to the 'Twinkie Defense'. Their list includes groups of all types.

The Southern Poverty Law Center counted 1,007 active hate groups in the United States in 2012. Only organizations and their chapters known to be active during 2012 are included.
All hate groups have beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics[ex/]

Content from External Source

Floyd Lee Corkins II, who pleaded guilty in federal court on Wednesday to the Aug. 15 shooting at the Family Research Council (FRC), identified the FRC as a target by using the website of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), which includes what it calls a “Hate Map” that features the FRC's Washington, D.C., headquarters. - See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/chi...thern-poverty-law-center#sthash.bPVAaPfe.dpuf

Content from External Source

pretty much almost lead to mass murder . Just because someone doesn't agree with the gay lifestyle because of their religious views doest mean they hate ? So by calling them hate groups makes them a target for the wackos . SPLC is a left wing political site . Not fair and balanced .http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/family-research-council

 

[AluminumTheory]

" Probably not happening on a large scale then." Doesnt mean they are not training .

Floyd Lee Corkins II, who pleaded guilty in federal court on Wednesday to the Aug. 15 shooting at the Family Research Council (FRC), identified the FRC as a target by using the website of the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), which includes what it calls a “Hate Map” that features the FRC's Washington, D.C., headquarters. - See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/chi...thern-poverty-law-center#sthash.bPVAaPfe.dpuf

Content from External Source

pretty much almost lead to mass murder . Just because someone doesn't agree with the gay lifestyle because of their religious views doest mean they hate ? So by calling them hate groups makes them a target for the wackos . SPLC is a left wing political site . Not fair and balanced .

So hate is okay if it is condoned by religion?

Just because someone doesn't agree with the American lifestyle because of their religious views doesn't mean that they hate.

 

[Joe]

So hate is okay if it is condoned by religion?

Just because someone doesn't agree with the American lifestyle because of their religious views doesn't mean that they hate.

I can disagree with you and your political ideology and not hate you . Its the same . Since when did being gay become a American Lifestyle ? Religion at least the ones I know of teach you never to hate .They put it on the same level as adultery . There is one however that still hangs people for being gay . Guess which one ?

 

[AluminumTheory]

I can disagree with you and your political ideology and not hate you . Its the same . Since when did being gay become a American Lifestyle ? Religion at least the ones I know of teach you never to hate .They put it on the same level as adultery . There is one however that still hangs people for being gay . Guess which one ?

SPLC isn't just calling people hateful because they disagree with something.

Again, it's about the rhetoric.

The reality is, homosexuals have entered the Scouts in the past for predatory purposes.”
– FRC vice president Rob Schwarzwalder, on radio’s “The Janet Mefferd Show,” Feb. 1, 2013.
“[H]omosexual activists vehemently reject the evidence which suggests that homosexual men … are … relative to their numbers, more likely to engage in such actions [childhood sexual abuse] than are heterosexual men.”
– Peter Sprigg, Senior Fellow for Policy Studies at FRC, on why the Boy Scouts should not allow LGBT Scouts or leaders, FRC blog, February 1, 2013.

“The videos are titled 'It Gets Better.' They are aimed at persuading kids that although they'll face struggles and perhaps bullying for 'coming out' as homosexual (or transgendered or some other perversion), life will get better. …It's disgusting. And it's part of a concerted effort to persuade kids that homosexuality is okay and actually to recruit them into that lifestyle."
— Tony Perkins, FRC fundraising letter, August 2011

"Those who understand the homosexual community—the activists—they're very aggressive, they're—everything they accuse us of they are in triplicate. They're intolerant, they're hateful, vile, they're spiteful. .... To me, that is the height of hatred, to be silent when we know there are individuals that are engaged in activity, behavior, and an agenda that will destroy them and our nation."
— Tony Perkins, Speaking to the Oak Initiative Summit, April 2011

"We believe the evidence shows … that relative to the size of their population, homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are heterosexual men."
— Peter Sprigg, "Debating Homosexuality: Understanding Two Views." 2011.

“While activists like to claim that pedophilia is a completely distinct orientation from homosexuality, evidence shows a disproportionate overlap between the two. … It is a homosexual problem.”
— FRC President Tony Perkins, FRC website, 2010

“[W]elcoming open homosexuality in the military would clearly damage the readiness and effectiveness of the force – in part because it would increase the already serious problem of homosexual assault in the military.”
— Peter Sprigg, “Homosexual Assault in the Military," 2010

"A little-reported fact is that homosexual and lesbian relationships are far more violent than are traditional married households."
-- Timothy Dailey, FRC publication, "Homosexual Parenting: Placing Children at Risk," 2002

“Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement.”
— Robert Knight, FRC director of cultural studies, and Frank York, 1999

“[Homosexuality] … embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion.”
— Steven Schwalm, FRC senior writer and analyst, in “Desecrating Corpus Christi,” 1999

"One of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order."
—1999 FRC publication, "Homosexual Behavior and Pedophilia," Robert Knight and Frank York

Content from External Source

Not saying that anybody deserved to die here. But spreading lies, and fear about a certain group would qualify as hate speech.

 

[Joe]

SPLC identifies hate groups. They never advocate anything being done to said hate groups except to expose them and possibly get them to lose outside funding. I don't see how labeling people for hating other minorities, women, and tha gayz is itself hateful or anywhere near as bad as the garbage that Alex Jones spews. Just another attempt to label something in the vein of I'm rubber/You are glue.

Ok how do you cut off funding to the TSA ? How do they lump the KKK with David Barton ?

SPLC isn't just calling people hateful because they disagree with something.

Again, it's about the rhetoric.

The reality is, homosexuals have entered the Scouts in the past for predatory purposes.”
– FRC vice president Rob Schwarzwalder, on radio’s “The Janet Mefferd Show,” Feb. 1, 2013.
“[H]omosexual activists vehemently reject the evidence which suggests that homosexual men … are … relative to their numbers, more likely to engage in such actions [childhood sexual abuse] than are heterosexual men.”
– Peter Sprigg, Senior Fellow for Policy Studies at FRC, on why the Boy Scouts should not allow LGBT Scouts or leaders, FRC blog, February 1, 2013.

“The videos are titled 'It Gets Better.' They are aimed at persuading kids that although they'll face struggles and perhaps bullying for 'coming out' as homosexual (or transgendered or some other perversion), life will get better. …It's disgusting. And it's part of a concerted effort to persuade kids that homosexuality is okay and actually to recruit them into that lifestyle."
— Tony Perkins, FRC fundraising letter, August 2011

"Those who understand the homosexual community—the activists—they're very aggressive, they're—everything they accuse us of they are in triplicate. They're intolerant, they're hateful, vile, they're spiteful. .... To me, that is the height of hatred, to be silent when we know there are individuals that are engaged in activity, behavior, and an agenda that will destroy them and our nation."
— Tony Perkins, Speaking to the Oak Initiative Summit, April 2011

"We believe the evidence shows … that relative to the size of their population, homosexual men are more likely to engage in child sexual abuse than are heterosexual men."
— Peter Sprigg, "Debating Homosexuality: Understanding Two Views." 2011.

“While activists like to claim that pedophilia is a completely distinct orientation from homosexuality, evidence shows a disproportionate overlap between the two. … It is a homosexual problem.”
— FRC President Tony Perkins, FRC website, 2010

“[W]elcoming open homosexuality in the military would clearly damage the readiness and effectiveness of the force – in part because it would increase the already serious problem of homosexual assault in the military.”
— Peter Sprigg, “Homosexual Assault in the Military," 2010

"A little-reported fact is that homosexual and lesbian relationships are far more violent than are traditional married households."
-- Timothy Dailey, FRC publication, "Homosexual Parenting: Placing Children at Risk," 2002

“Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement.”
— Robert Knight, FRC director of cultural studies, and Frank York, 1999

“[Homosexuality] … embodies a deep-seated hatred against true religion.”
— Steven Schwalm, FRC senior writer and analyst, in “Desecrating Corpus Christi,” 1999

"One of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the 'prophets' of a new sexual order."
—1999 FRC publication, "Homosexual Behavior and Pedophilia," Robert Knight and Frank York

Content from External Source

Not saying that anybody deserved to die here. But spreading lies, and fear about a certain group would qualify as hate speech.

Just left wing dribble

J.M. Berger of Foreign Policy disputes SPLC analysis in the Intelligence Report and Year in Hate and Extremism reports and believes the SPLC carries a political slant. He also questions the methodologies used by the SPLC and questions if they overstate the presence of extremists in the United States.[104]Jesse Walker, writing in the libertarian magazine Reason, charges the SPLC with fear-mongering and over-reaching in its broad-brush portrayal of Patriot groups

Content from External Source

Lies ? Maybe they believe what they say that doest make it hate it just makes the gays hate them . .

 

[AluminumTheory]

Those are exact quotes.
Not left wing dribble.

 

[AluminumTheory]

Ok how do you cut off funding to the TSA ? How do they lump the KKK with David Barton ?
Just left wing dribble

J.M. Berger of Foreign Policy disputes SPLC analysis in the Intelligence Report and Year in Hate and Extremism reports and believes the SPLC carries a political slant. He also questions the methodologies used by the SPLC and questions if they overstate the presence of extremists in the United States.[104]Jesse Walker, writing in the libertarian magazine Reason, charges the SPLC with fear-mongering and over-reaching in its broad-brush portrayal of Patriot groups

Content from External Source

Lies ? Maybe they believe what they say that doest make it hate it just makes the gays hate them . .

I'm sure the Muslims believe what they say just the same

Believing what you say, doesn't change anything.

If I believe in my hate, does that make it not hate?

 

[JeffreyNotGeoffrey]

I ain't going to say I'm sorry, because I'm not. If you "disagree" with the gay lifestyle, yes you are a hate monger and should be labeled as such. No apologies, you are a hate monger. I don't LIKE gay sex, or like seeing it, BUT I love gay people. They should be proud to be who they are and deserve equal treatment under the law. So yeah people against such a milquetoast level of equality are haters/a part of hate groups and should be labeled as such.
And David Barton is an idiot and a pseudo historian.

 

[Bill]

How did we get from LAX shooting conspiracy theories to gay rights? I believe we are off topic unless the theory is the shooter was a member of a radical gay militia group with a grudge against the TSA.

 

[JRBids]

Alot of people words like fascism, sociaism, communism, etc without understanding what they really mean or key differences and similarities between them. Political ideologies are rarely absolute in nature as ideas from varying ideologies will borrow ideas from one another.

I will admit that us seems to be leaning more towards fascism in some respects but I'm far from declaring the U.S. as a fascist nation.
Fascism is better described as a mutation of socialism and nationalism. Fascism alllows capitalism and support the profit motive in a limited capacity to serve the state. Socialism is applied not in a traditional (egalitarian) sense, but rather to only benefit a preferred group of individuals which often leaves out minorities, the mentally and physically disadvantaged, undesirables, etc.. It promotes social Darwinism in that sense. Fascism applies conservative doctrine toward social issues. Fascists are generally anti-LGBT, supportive of gender roles, anti-choice (abortion), and ultranationalist. The United States has made great strides towards progress regarding the two former issues, abortion on the other hand seems to depend on where you live, and nationalism is inevitable regardless of where you live. While there has been alot of suppression of labor unions here in the U.S., that is hardly a core tenet of fascism. Mussolini's Italy was very anti-union, but he did however vastly improve the financial lives and working conditions. Hitler's Germany on the other hand took advantage of the labor unions via the German Labour Front, and established workers labor laws, higher wages, and protection from termination. A helpful hint would be to take note of the full name of the nazi party. They most certainly were not anti union.


To call a national fascist or socialist for expressing a few attributes is just plain ignorance. It would be the equivalent of calling China a lassiez-faire capitalist nation because they've gone through some economic reform. Are OSHA and the U.S. Dept of Labor fascist institutions because they protect workers?


The points this article illustrates are better attributed neo-conservatism which has been the dominant political force in the U.S. since Nixon, and later Reagan.

But while we're on the topic, would it interest you to know that conspiracy theories were a core tenet of fascist propaganda?

Alex Jones it some ways fits the bill of a fascist for his support of gender roles, social conservatism, declaring dissenting opinions as treasonous, and yes... spreading conspiracy propaganda. I suppose there is a modicum of truth to what Glenn Beck said about him .

Good post. I do find it interesting that those who describe the US as "fascist" seem to link it with Obama, when it's actually the GOP that seems like the party driving the fascism, to me.

 

[JRBids]

Those are exact quotes.
Not left wing dribble.

Quotes that typify right wing drivel are labeled left wing "dribble" to Joe, LOL.

 

[JRBids]

I'm sure the Muslims believe what they say just the same

Big thumbs up.

 

[Bemused to Death]

So your default position is to assume they're preparing for combat against civilians until proven otherwise.

When so many indicators point to such a possibility it seems prudent to consider it likely, does it not? On the other hand, ignoring or dismissing the indicators out of hand while insisting that there's "nothing to see here" based on nothing more than a wish that it not be so doesn't have much in the way of rational backing, does it?

Can you offer a reasonable scenario of what is taking place instead, given the indicators?

 

[JeffreyNotGeoffrey]

I forgot too that David Barton has some white supremacist connections. That and his antipathy towards the gayz I think more than makes him a hatemonger.

 

[Bemused to Death]

you kept raising new issues in a gish gallop of which the "bullet bit" was just the latest at which point I called you on it.

Odd, but you just got done saying "Your initial concern was about the number of bullets ordered - are you now not worried about that, or just expanding the issues to avoid discussing it??"

Somehow, the bullets morphed from my "initial concern" to being the "latest" and the other issues went from an expansion of my initial concern to ones I'd raised before the that.

Not sure how that makes any sense, but that is what you are putting forth. Maybe it's part of the workings of that real world I don't understand.

Like so many CT's you seem to have an inability to accept that you're just wrong, so whenever eth evidence gets a bit to much for you to continue your rant without looking really silly you raise another issue, then another one, then another....you never seem to get to realise that you make it look like you just don't understand how the real world works.

Interesting take. I'd be happy to see some actual evidence to back up these assertions.

 

[Trigger Hippie]

On the other hand, ignoring or dismissing the indicators out of hand while insisting that there's "nothing to see here"

Please, no straw men. Nobody is dismissing anything out of hand.

For reasons already outlined within this thread, I find your indicators fall short of actual evidence.

 

[Bemused to Death]

Please, no straw men. Nobody is dismissing anything out of hand.

For reasons already outlined within this thread, I find your indicators fall short of actual evidence of anything nefarious happening.

I seem to have missed those reasons. All I recall is mentions of bulk purchases and weapons proficiency. They don't address the context within which the situation, let alone counter it, so you will have to excuse me for taking them as a dismissal.

You have an economy that is by all accounts being artificially propped up in ways that are unsustainable. You have a surveillance apparatus that collects virtually all communication. You have a fractious culture war and the targeting of those who dissent against the increasing loss of liberties as extremists and domestic terrrorists. On top of this mess you have an increasingly militarized police force and a steady stream of abusive and over the top reactions by the police against the citizenry.

So if none of that qualifies as evidence, can you specifically state what would constitute said evidence?

 

[Bemused to Death]

Do you disagree with what Bill wrote further up in this thread? From that perspective even if they were preparing for combat against civilians it's something that they should do.

What's wrong with a reasonable default position being that of assuming that's what they're doing, given all the evidence and the fact that many think that's exactly what they should be doing anyway?

You mentioned earlier working backwards and laying out what would constitute evidence to support the evidence of a rapidly increasing police state. I still haven't seen anyone touch on that, but what about framing it a different way.

If the goal truly was to usher in a police state in the face of resistance, what do you think would be different from what we see happening across the land?