Claim - 'Sydney Chocolate Shop is a False Flag'

Whitebeard

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
News of this one i just breaking, but already the CT crowd are leaping on another band wagon.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1046553/pg1

External Quote:
The guy has asked for an ISIS flag.
He only brought along the MUSLIM Standard.

The flag that he has is false.
http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2...20-hostages-in-sydney-cafe-siege-2673646.html
External Quote:
Breaking false flag: 'Islamists' take 20 hostages in Sydney cafe siege –As many as 20 hostages taken by gunmen in Sydney cafe –Black flag with Arab writing held against cafe window –Armed police seal off local area in Martin Place –Police earlier arrest man in counter-terror operation
http://globalfreedommovement.org/sydney-siege-isis-terror-strikes-australia/
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News alert: there is currently what is most likely a state-sponsored false flag terrorist event occurring in the Sydney CBD. The media is claiming "ISIS" is holding thirteen (there's that number again), or as many as twenty, people hostage in a cafe in Martin Place, dubbing the event the "Sydney Siege."
There are loads more, the whole conspirasphere is full of claims of false flags, stoogies and the like.

the news on this is still breaking, the siege was only broken a couple of hours ago, so reports are still coming in, but i thought i would start this thread to monitor the situation and the conspiracy as it happens.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-30485355
External Quote:

Two people died, along with an Islamist gunman, after commandos stormed a cafe in Sydney, Australia, to bring to an end a 16-hour siege.

The gunman, identified as an Iranian refugee, had taken dozens of hostages.

Four people were injured, including a policeman hit by gunshot pellets.

The centre of the city was put in lockdown when the gunman seized the hostages early on Monday, forcing some of them to hold up a black Islamic banner at the window of the Lindt cafe.

The cafe is located in Martin Place, a busy shopping area in Sydney's financial district.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott said it was "profoundly shocking" that people were being "held hostage by an armed person claiming political motivation".

'Isolated incident'
A 34-year-old man and a woman aged 38 were pronounced dead after being taken to hospital, as was the gunman, the New South Wales police force said in a statement.

Two women suffered non-life threatening injuries as did a policeman who had been hit in the face by pellets, they and was taken to hospital.

Another woman suffered a gunshot wound to her shoulder.

New South Wales state police commissioner Andrew Scipione said it had been an "isolated incident".

Seventeen hostages were accounted for, including those who had managed to escape earlier, he said.

Local media reports suggest the commandos from the Royal Australian Regiment entered the building after the gunman started firing shots.

Commissioner Scipione urged people not to "speculate" about what had happened inside the cafe and said police believed more lives could have been lost if officers had not entered the cafe at that point.

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From the first link:
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you do not understand the diference between ` the wrong flag ` - which denotes idiocy and piss poor planning and `a " false flag " which is something else entirely
Assuming the first poster is correct, that he had some other flag and asked for an ISIS one, this sums up my opinion - wrong flag is not false flag. Sounds like a "franchise" terrorist group, hopping on whatever name happens to be notable at the time to make themselves sound more serious but acting on their own.


There's a big complication with these terrorist groups that the media never really wraps its collective head around: They work kind of like an affiliate chain. When one becomes notable for some reason (as Al-Qaeda was not long ago, and ISIS now) others start using that name to make themselves more credible, and things become a cluster**** pretty quickly, with groups in twenty different countries with separate leadership and different methods, all using the name to make their manifestos and videos and actions seem more urgent to the rest of the world, because these aren't some random chuckle****s in Lybia, this is the Al-Qaeda. Sometimes within the same conflict you'll find pro-regime and rebel groups both using the same name, just to ensure westerners will probably never be able to properly parse the news reports day to day.

Way too early and too much flailing in the media (maybe Australian news has a better handle on it than US, though) to be sure, but name-bandwagoning would explain why the guy didn't have the "right" flag. Though that seems like the kind of thing you can buy on the internet and shouldn't need hostages to get?
 
Hevach said:
Way too early and too much flailing in the media (maybe Australian news has a better handle on it than US, though) to be sure, but name-bandwagoning would explain why the guy didn't have the "right" flag. Though that seems like the kind of thing you can buy on the internet and shouldn't need hostages to get?
Click to expand...

Complicating all of the labeling and pigeon-holing is the fact that the guy is Iranian...and thus likely a Shia...whom AQ and IS consider the enemy.
 
Whitebeard said:
The news on this is still breaking, the siege was only broken a couple of hours ago, so reports are still coming in, but i thought i would start this thread to monitor the situation and the conspiracy as it happens.
Click to expand...

I got home from a weekend in Iceland to this, and unfortunately had to watch it on Sky news, which had 'expert' after retired-gereatric-ex-special-forces-expert come and give voiceovers about something they are watching the exact same feed on as the rest of us, along with random speculation from Sky anchors, filling in the inactive gaps with nonsense such as "What can be going through the minds of the hostages relatives right now...?"
 
SR1419 said:
Complicating all of the labeling and pigeon-holing is the fact that the guy is Iranian...and thus likely a Shia...whom AQ and IS consider the enemy.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to find the link, but I read somewhere this morning amongst the deluge of commentary that the gunman had recently converted to Sunni. Reading further tho, the guy said a lot of things about numerology, spiritual healing etc. it'll probably take weeks for the media to agree as to just "what" he was.

I've seen a number of comments thus far on the usual CT news sites also with "obvious false flag event". I think this is standard practice by CT believers now, that every event is false flag unless proven otherwise. Seems a knee jerk reaction.
Just what is achieved by such a "false flag" is anyone's guess.
 
occams rusty scissor said:
I'm trying to find the link, but I read somewhere this morning amongst the deluge of commentary that the gunman had recently converted to Sunni. Reading further tho, the guy said a lot of things about numerology, spiritual healing etc. it'll probably take weeks for the media to agree as to just "what" he was.

I've seen a number of comments thus far on the usual CT news sites also with "obvious false flag event". I think this is standard practice by CT believers now, that every event is false flag unless proven otherwise. Seems a knee jerk reaction.
Just what is achieved by such a "false flag" is anyone's guess.
Click to expand...

Thanks- I hadnt heard that...I did see the headline "self-styled sheik" whatever that means...he clearly had "issues"- trouble with the law etc..

It does seem as if everything is a "false flag" event these days...as if nothing ever happened before. The logic- or lack thereof- of that premise is astounding.
 
I suspect one CT from Melbourne is busy as we speak furiously putting together his thoughts on this as a false flag.

It was a siege that ended badly, mainly due to the loss of control that the perpetrator experienced once hostages began fleeing the Cafe once his back was turned.

While he was a self styled Islamic cleric, the reaction here has been more that he was a deranged lunatic and not representative of the Islamic community. Sydney-siders have made me proud with the #illridewithyou hashtag which shows they are not stupid and can differentiate motives that CTers can not.
 
Thank the stars for our strict gun laws here in Australia. If it was in the US he'd have had an automatic rifle and armour piercing bullets, not just a farmers shotgun.

The most common CT I've heard about this personally yesterday and this morning is that the siege was orchestrated by the government to distract people from the mid year budget update (which had an extra $10 billion deficit), but the budget update WAS still announced on most news outlets, but just as a background piece to the siege which had pretty much 24 hour coverage.
 
I'm not sure this even qualifies for discussion yet, as there hasn't been any specific claim of evidence that would lead to a conclusion. I'll try one: There was a counter-terrorism drill in Martin Place in May 2013. Which somehow proves "false flag" or hoax, I guess. This reminds me of the famous Sidney Harris cartoon:
e17323073cc3316afefe11e8b72d8f89.jpg
 
Auldy said:
Thank the stars for our strict gun laws here in Australia. If it was in the US he'd have had an automatic rifle and armour piercing bullets, not just a farmers shotgun.
Click to expand...
That's a whole other issue that has cropped up among CTs out of this (esp info wars). I've heard both sides of this argument, and while I mostly agree with you, I don't think it really matters if he had a double barrel shotgun or a semi auto, drum- magazine fed "street sweeper", the outcome was probably going to be the same. It seems like he was a loon that was determined,or at least prepared, to die for whatever thing he believed in. BUT I bet those cops were relieved he didn't have anything more substantial in terms of firepower. Still haven't heard anything about the IED(s) he supposedly had, I'm assuming that was a hoax?
 
TWCobra said:
It was a siege that ended badly, mainly due to the loss of control that the perpetrator experienced once hostages began fleeing the Cafe once his back was turned.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I suspect this would have been far worse (or still going) if there were multiple offenders.

TWCobra said:
While he was a self styled Islamic cleric, the reaction here has been more that he was a deranged lunatic and not representative of the Islamic community. Sydney-siders have made me proud with the #illridewithyou hashtag which shows they are not stupid and can differentiate motives that CTers can not.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about the cleric thing - it seemed that seven or so years ago the media were happy to use him in stories as a cleric or leader, now they're distancing themselves from him. Re the hashtag - is it really necessary? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that the same group of bogans from the cronulla riots haven't popped back up. But is it really necessary to have to remind people "not all Muslims do this" everytime an extremist nutjob commits an atrocity? Because I tend to think that if people are going to hold a grudge against Islam then it'll happen with or without twitter.
 
occams rusty scissor said:
Just what is achieved by such a "false flag" is anyone's guess.
Click to expand...

Good question:

If it were to bring in greater gun control in Australia, that is already in place.

If you are of the Dahboo7 mindset that Obama is starting a race war, then the '#Illridewithyou' meme has effectively eliminated any possibility of that happening.

Has Tony Abbott got a Monica Lewinski?

Bigger defence budget? To condition the Australian people to send more troops to Iraq?

Aliens?

Alas, no doubt my head is not conspiratorial enough, and there will be a 'reason' so abstract no-one here could have thought of it...
 
occams rusty scissor said:
I'm not sure about the cleric thing - it seemed that seven or so years ago the media were happy to use him in stories as a cleric or leader, now they're distancing themselves from him.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this sentence; the media are distancing themselves from the deranged lunatic? How were they associated with him in the first place?
 
BombDr said:
If it were to bring in greater gun control in Australia, that is already in place.
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It's funny that the gun laws have been raised quite a lot since this incident (and I understand that bombDr wasn't referring to this, just caught my eye again) Many in the US (mostly CT) have suggested that if the populace hadn't been "disarmed" then such an event wouldn't have happened. For starters, the Australian public have never been disarmed, just restrictions placed on what types of firearms can be owned and how they can be used. Secondly, the general public had access to and owned plenty of guns prior to the auto/semi auto bans, however this didn't prevent the massacres that lead to the ban in the first place. There were no armed citizens, guns blazing, heroically fighting off Martin Bryant when the pt Arthur shooting kicked off. Because Australia has never had the same gun-centric culture when it comes to self defence.
 
Pete Tar said:
I don't understand this sentence; the media are distancing themselves from the deranged lunatic? How were they associated with him in the first place?
Click to expand...
Sorry, should have expanded that. He was interviewed and used in a story several years ago where he was painted as a cleric, and several times prior to the siege he's been in the news but not always reported as a cleric - what I was getting at (not very well) was that I was confused as to his status as a genuine cleric as the media are now pointing to him as otherwise, or self appointed.
 
BombDr said:
Alas, no doubt my head is not conspiratorial enough, and there will be a 'reason' so abstract no-one here could have thought of it...
Click to expand...

External Quote:
Of course! It's so simple!
[Pauses]
Wait, no it's not. It's needlessly complicated!
{Homer Simpson on learning that flu shots contain mind altering drugs to make people shop, hence why they're always given just before Christmas} :)

Ray Von
 
Latest CT spin, the old drill being held proves false flag malarkey



(coupled with the claim that the posters you-tube vid claiming Isis are CIA trained was taken down as the siege was taking place.)

Of all the drill = proof of false flag claims this has got to be one of the most tenuous. The drill took place over 18 months ago, NOT exactly 1 year ago as claimed in the vid.

There is a full account of the drill here... http://www.news.com.au/national/aus...halts-sydney-cbd/story-e6frfkp9-1226633535675


External Quote:
STUNNED onlookers couldn’t believe their eyes as an army counter terrorism operation in Martin Place unfolded before them in the early hours of the morning.
At 1am, with the Daily Telegraph present, a convoy of dark Toyota 4WDs, with their spotlights blazing, sped down Macquarie St and burst onto Martin Place to unload a team of highly specialised Australian Defence Force counter terrorism soldiers.

With rifles drawn, faces covered in balaclavas and gas masks, and night vision goggles perched on their helmets, about 50 camouflaged soldiers fanned out through Martin Place in near-perfect silence in search of mock terrorists that had overtaken the underground Martin Place train station.
Now this training event wasn't exactly secret or covert, as members of the then near-by Occupy Sydney camp point out...

External Quote:
With the action starting just metres from their tent, the Occupy Sydney members were unfazed by all the commotion.

"I just organised the army guys to come and watch the place so we could go to the pub," one member, Lance, said.

"They told us at eight they were coming. I was dozing off and next thing they were all around.

"Notice how they didn't shut the area down; it's good that they're getting the public used to this stuff."

Another Occupy member, Mirko Durdevic, was impressed with the professionalism with which the soldiers carried out the operation.

"It didn't bother me at all. They were doing their job very professionally, they were very quiet," he said.
As has been pointed out in various threads here, especially in relation to stuff like 7/7, The Boston Bombing etc, training exercises are regular events, be they high level management paper planning affairs, or as in this case a boots on the ground exercise. After all Sydney is a major city and all major cities have disaster and security plans, and these plans have to be tested somehow.

Here are some links to the New South Wales emergency plans
www.emergency.nsw.gov.au/media/1164.pdf
www.emergency.nsw.gov.au/media/332.pdf
Nothing secret there, just type in Sydney disaster planning into google and those are the first two links that show up.

So to link this drill with the cafe siege is just another example of paranoid dot joining taken to the extreme in my opinion.
 
Auldy said:
Thank the stars for our strict gun laws here in Australia. If it was in the US he'd have had an automatic rifle and armour piercing bullets, not just a farmers shotgun.
Click to expand...
We've done a better job than people realize getting that kind of gun out of people's hands (though AP ammunition is still just a matter of asking the right seller). You see a lot of big scary black rifles in the news during militia standoffs or drug busts, but they're virtually all semiautomatic models (and very frequently cheap knockoffs on top of it), not much better than a regular rifle. They're more likely to make things go badly for the criminal than the victims or police, since police usually can't be sure that it's just a regular rifle until they take it away, and will react as if it's a real automatic.
 
Since the only concrete claim that has been made is that a drill was held some 18 months before, I think we should all agree that indeed a drill was held, but that is a non-sequitur, and move this discussion to "Rambles" or "General Discussion."
 
MikeC said:
You are a mean and cynical person.

:p:D:cool:
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I have mentioned that being nice is often a problem with sarcastic old guys like my younger brother and me.

But he's worse!:cool:


I have learned that this is not a feature my wife finds makes me irresistible to her, especially directed at her.:oops:

of course I joke, my humour not appreciated by all.
 
F
Redwood said:
Since the only concrete claim that has been made is that a drill was held some 18 months before, I think we should all agree that indeed a drill was held, but that is a non-sequitur, and move this discussion to "Rambles" or "General Discussion."
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Agree 100%
 
Why the death of 2 Australian or 1 English cop is a well planned false flag with secret reasons but the slaughter of 140 people (children) at Pakistan is only that, evil human beings doing terrible things?

I think the CT movement is elitist and it is disgusting. If it happens in the first world, it is government/NWO, otherwise it is terrorism or accident.

It really makes me sick.
 
there are misguided claims arising that the shooter was at the time a licensed firearm holder. This has been debunked by better media as untrue they stemmed 1st from our misinformed prime minister & then misquoted & used to say was inside job by oz NWO gubberment

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-...aron-monis-ex-partner-feared-shooting/5973236

External Quote:
asked whether he had access to firearms.

"Did you have access to firearms in the past?" police asked.

"Yes ... when I was a security officer in Australia. I had a licence, then I got another licence of firearms," Monis said.

Police asked Monis if his firearm licence was still current.

"No, of course that has been expired many years ago," he replied.

He then confirmed he no longer had access to firearms.
This does not explain how and where he got the weapon but that should be sorted by a few police raids soon enuff
 
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Bruno D. said:
Why the death of 2 Australian or 1 English cop is a well planned false flag with secret reasons but the slaughter of 140 people (children) at Pakistan is only that, evil human beings doing terrible things?

I think the CT movement is elitist and it is disgusting. If it happens in the first world, it is government/NWO, otherwise it is terrorism or accident.

It really makes me sick.
Click to expand...
There are false flag theories about those attacks, too, but they work a bit differently over there, generally blaming outside forces (Mossad and CIA in particular) for carrying out attacks disguised as terrorists. The internet in general is still pretty segregated by language, even more so with languages that don't share a character set, so there's less crossover, but in some countries these theories get a lot wider acceptance than any US equivalent, and they used to make it to US media once in a while as a "their government is using the state sponsored media to blame us and spread anti-American sentiments" rather than the (usually) more correct "some loonies are blaming us and the state sponsored media is reporting on them in less than objective terms."

It helps that those theories have more plausible motives for the false flag, often centering around making the population or even the government distrust their own security and seek outside assistance, which the "western imperial powers" will be glad to offer. There's still the problem that a flase flag only works when you wave it loud and hard, not when you're too busy throwing local security under busses.
 
While bored with TV tonight, I was strolling through various videos on different conspiracies. I came across one for this conspiracy where some of the comments talk about the muzzle flash. At least that is what they believe it is. The comments suggest that the only way to get the muzzle flash is by using blanks, thus proving hoax. I don't believe this was a hoax, but not being a gun person at all, I was wondering if there was another explanation for this? This is around 7:28 in the video, and slightly after.

 
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