gravelrash
New Member
How about an AK-74 5.45x39. Has a similar profile to the AK-47, unlike the AN-94 which is quite different.
Charlie Hebdo Conspiracy Theories - Ignore or Address?
- Thread starter Mick West
- Start date
- Status
How about an AK-74 5.45x39. Has a similar profile to the AK-47, unlike the AN-94 which is quite different.
Efftup
Senior Member.
most sites I have found are saying AK-47s.
There is some footage in this video: http://news.sky.com/story/1407227/new-footage-of-charlie-hebdo-gun-attack
(safe to watch) where it does appear the guns have the wooden bit you hold just behind the end of the barrel (real gun expert,me) like on the AK47 or AK74, whereas AN94s generally appear to be all black.
ALSO in this video you can see that the Citroen C3 has the exact same wheels as the one later recovered, ( I know one CT was claiming it was a different car.)
There is some footage in this video: http://news.sky.com/story/1407227/new-footage-of-charlie-hebdo-gun-attack
(safe to watch) where it does appear the guns have the wooden bit you hold just behind the end of the barrel (real gun expert,me) like on the AK47 or AK74, whereas AN94s generally appear to be all black.
ALSO in this video you can see that the Citroen C3 has the exact same wheels as the one later recovered, ( I know one CT was claiming it was a different car.)
Efftup
Senior Member.
they also appear to have a vertically folding stock like this one: 
as opposed to a fixed or side folding one that have different profiles.
you will see this quite clearly in the first 40 seconds of the video where one gunman places his gun on the roof and then stands looking at the other gunman's weapon, with the barrel pointing down.
as opposed to a fixed or side folding one that have different profiles.
you will see this quite clearly in the first 40 seconds of the video where one gunman places his gun on the roof and then stands looking at the other gunman's weapon, with the barrel pointing down.
Mackdog
Senior Member.
This is the Google Translate of Mick's Interview...
Several fans sites conspiracy theories deny that jihadists circles were behind the attack against Charlie Hebdo and seek to place the blame to countries like the United States or Israel. Or outright to the French state itself.
The appearance of theories "paranoid" of this nature does not unduly surprised Mick West, English programmer based in California that manages several years a blog, Metabunk, seeking to counteract this type of discourse.
The profile of the attackers, the fact that the French weekly was a long time in the crosshairs of the fundamentalists because of his drawings on Islam, he was regularly threatened and had been attacked there a few years enough largely, he said, to convince the vast majority of people of the origins of the attack.
"But there is still a small but noisy group of people who consider that everything is relayed in the media is false," notes Mr. West.
Those who defend conspiracy theories will look, he explains in an interview to highlight elements that seem incongruous in the "official version" in order to "flatten their subjective interpretation of events."
In the case of the shooting in the United States in the city of Sandy Hook in December 2012, no videos, or the small size of the shooter were discussed to try to disable the version of the authorities, reports the blogger. In the attack at Boston Marathon, the "salon experts" claimed that there was "too much blood, not enough blood" or that "the blood was too red."
The issue of blood returns for several days on the attack against Charlie Hebdo, says West. Conspiracy websites, he says, claim that there is not one in the video showing a police officer shot dead in the street.
A form of "religion"
For some people, the use of conspiracy theories is almost a form of substitution "religion". "They need to be able to give meaning to life, to understand what is happening, and the evocation of plots gives them answers," he notes.
The followers of these theories, says West, are usually very suspicious of governments, a position reinforced by the fact that states do not always show a perfect connection with their activities transparent.
Pierre Trudel, Professor of Public Law at the University of Montreal which monitors social media, notes that online communication allows individuals who believe detect a conspiracy to quickly find items and texts confirming their vision and exchange about it.
"People fall into line according to their beliefs and convictions [...]. They convince them as in the sects, "he says.
Any external challenge their vision is warmly aggressively, says West, who is regularly accused of being in the pay of the US government or other states.
Conspiracy theories are particularly popular with young people, says the blogger, who hopes to help through his writings, to see clearly.
Many of them, he says, are "influenced people [...] that could easily accommodate new ideas but are also able to give up when they are shown to be false."
Several fans sites conspiracy theories deny that jihadists circles were behind the attack against Charlie Hebdo and seek to place the blame to countries like the United States or Israel. Or outright to the French state itself.
The appearance of theories "paranoid" of this nature does not unduly surprised Mick West, English programmer based in California that manages several years a blog, Metabunk, seeking to counteract this type of discourse.
The profile of the attackers, the fact that the French weekly was a long time in the crosshairs of the fundamentalists because of his drawings on Islam, he was regularly threatened and had been attacked there a few years enough largely, he said, to convince the vast majority of people of the origins of the attack.
"But there is still a small but noisy group of people who consider that everything is relayed in the media is false," notes Mr. West.
Those who defend conspiracy theories will look, he explains in an interview to highlight elements that seem incongruous in the "official version" in order to "flatten their subjective interpretation of events."
In the case of the shooting in the United States in the city of Sandy Hook in December 2012, no videos, or the small size of the shooter were discussed to try to disable the version of the authorities, reports the blogger. In the attack at Boston Marathon, the "salon experts" claimed that there was "too much blood, not enough blood" or that "the blood was too red."
The issue of blood returns for several days on the attack against Charlie Hebdo, says West. Conspiracy websites, he says, claim that there is not one in the video showing a police officer shot dead in the street.
A form of "religion"
For some people, the use of conspiracy theories is almost a form of substitution "religion". "They need to be able to give meaning to life, to understand what is happening, and the evocation of plots gives them answers," he notes.
The followers of these theories, says West, are usually very suspicious of governments, a position reinforced by the fact that states do not always show a perfect connection with their activities transparent.
Pierre Trudel, Professor of Public Law at the University of Montreal which monitors social media, notes that online communication allows individuals who believe detect a conspiracy to quickly find items and texts confirming their vision and exchange about it.
"People fall into line according to their beliefs and convictions [...]. They convince them as in the sects, "he says.
Any external challenge their vision is warmly aggressively, says West, who is regularly accused of being in the pay of the US government or other states.
Conspiracy theories are particularly popular with young people, says the blogger, who hopes to help through his writings, to see clearly.
Many of them, he says, are "influenced people [...] that could easily accommodate new ideas but are also able to give up when they are shown to be false."
gravelrash
New Member
I'm thinking AKMS (which would be 7.62mm,) as the AK74S appears to only be available in the side folding stock like this:
The AK-74 is available with a range of stocks including fixed wooden stock. It is the apparent lackI'm thinking AKMS (which would be 7.62mm,) as the AK74S appears to only be available in the side folding stock like this:
of recoil which is leading me to think of 5.45mm calibre. Someone should have some cartridge
casings.
Attachments
Sgt.Tinfoil
Member
I believe that Kalashnikovs AK-47 is most copied gun in the world and it is impossible to determine what exact model is used over those bad quality videos. The Kalashnikov AK-47 copies are available in every imaginable calibre from shotguns to bb-guns(no seriously we had in the Army few AK-variant bb-guns for training purposes). What comes to determing the calibre from those videos by recoil I would be suprised if somedy could make assumption from there that it is even a rifle calibre. It could be even some AK variant submachine gun with 9mm(probably not because of the size of the magazine). The 7.62 has not that hard recoil you can shoot it with one hand without problem with AK variant.
The recoil has been widely over exarated because it is almost useless with 7.62 calibre in shooting with full-auto even thought it has it limited uses for example in taking over trenches but that is basicly it. Anyway armchair generals in the internet has decided that Kalahnikov is useless when shooting fullauto because of the recoil which in some peoples head comes the idea that is really hard which it is not. Here is a picture potraying the guy who attacked the Jewish foodstore who had probably some connections to those other attackers. Maybe he had same gun as those other terrorist or not who knows
gravelrash
New Member
Agreed. However this particular model has a very short barrel compared with what one can glean from the poor videos.I believe that Kalashnikovs AK-47 is most copied gun in the world and it is impossible to determine what exact model is used over those bad quality videos. The Kalashnikov AK-47 copies are available in every imaginable calibre from shotguns to bb-guns(no seriously we had in the Army few AK-variant bb-guns for training purposes). What comes to determing the calibre from those videos by recoil I would be suprised if somedy could make assumption from there that it is even a rifle calibre. It could be even some AK variant submachine gun with 9mm(probably not because of the size of the magazine). The 7.62 has not that hard recoil you can shoot it with one hand without problem with AK variant.
The recoil has been widely over exarated because it is almost useless with 7.62 calibre in shooting with full-auto even thought it has it limited uses for example in taking over trenches but that is basicly it. Anyway armchair generals in the internet has decided that Kalahnikov is useless when shooting fullauto because of the recoil which in some peoples head comes the idea that is really hard which it is not. Here is a picture potraying the guy who attacked the Jewish foodstore who had probably some connections to those other attackers. Maybe he had same gun as those other terrorist or not who knows
I'm finding it hard to make out the flash suppressor if it were a 74, so back to an AK-47, probably the most easily obtainable
in France.
Be nice for the Police to release some sort of initial report.
occams rusty scissor
Senior Member.
I agree, there's also a LOT of ways to modify a standard AK if you really wanted/needed to. There's also a lot of non 7.62 variants which can take weight out of the 'recoil' arguments.
The 74 is made in a standard length and carbine barrel length, and there's a number of different configurations of flash suppressors/muzzle brakes/compensators available across the platforms:
...etc.
While being a pretty grisly topic, this is also a good point. Im sure BombDr/other combat vets can give real world examples, but bullets dont necessarily travel in a straight path once they enter the body. Depending on the type of round used, a projectile entering the body will deflect off bone, fragment, deform and often exit from the victim in places not expected i.e. not in a straight line from entry to exit.
Also the dust seen from the footpath after the shot may just be that - dust. Theres a lot of hot gasses being pushed out the muzzle, at that range it could well be just dust and debris being kicked off the footpath as a result of muzzle blast and not necessarily the projectile.
Whether the shot missed or not doesn't add or take away from this incident in any case - the victim is still dead. If the gunman missed the shot all it proves is that he didnt hit his intended mark.
I was thinking along the lines of JFK but that was from further away. I was thinking of exploding watermelons but those are usually shot from further away. Now in the movies it'll show someone putting a pillow on their face and shooting them and that leaves a cleaner shot. From what I can remember when he shoots the cop, he doesn't seem to do that body jerk from the impact of the bullet. I was going to watch it again but my computer isn't cooperating.
BombDr
Senior Member.
Muttkat, JFK was different rifle, different angle, different ammunition and JFK was sat upright in a car.
Apart from being shot, can you tell me the similarities with the murder of Ahmed Merebet?
Movies are evidence of nothing other than motion pictures.
occams rusty scissor
Senior Member.
Those are watermelons, not a skull. Mostly water and a soft outer skin, hydrostatic shock from the projectile will cause an impressive explosion if using hollow/soft point ammunition. Lots of YT vids to confirm that if you're interested.
There are also lots of YouTube videos of people getting shot at close range, often in the head, but also in the body. You don't see exploding watermelons, you do see the bullet impact the ground on the other side of the person. There's no significant problems with recoil.
Warning: These videos show people being killed, executed by being shot at close range. Please do not embed similar videos, just link them as below, and with a warning.
Example 1: Public Execution of Zarmeena by Taliban (at 2:27) - A woman is executed with an AK-47 type rifle single shot to the head, no visible blood, puff of dust, minor recoil.
Example 2: SYRIA Execution Video: Three Drivers Executed By Jihadist Rebels Near Iraq-Syria Border. (at 3:03). Three men are executed with an AK-47 type rifle. It's unclear if any are shot in the head, but again there's no explosion of blood, but there is a puff of dust, and the shooter is quite casual about it, not at all hindered by recoil.
Warning: These videos show people being killed, executed by being shot at close range. Please do not embed similar videos, just link them as below, and with a warning.
Example 1: Public Execution of Zarmeena by Taliban (at 2:27) - A woman is executed with an AK-47 type rifle single shot to the head, no visible blood, puff of dust, minor recoil.
Example 2: SYRIA Execution Video: Three Drivers Executed By Jihadist Rebels Near Iraq-Syria Border. (at 3:03). Three men are executed with an AK-47 type rifle. It's unclear if any are shot in the head, but again there's no explosion of blood, but there is a puff of dust, and the shooter is quite casual about it, not at all hindered by recoil.
BombDr
Senior Member.
Could we also remember that these people were brutally murdered, and any discussion regarding the videos of their final moments and death be conducted in a respectful, factual and dignified manner.
Same for the video of the murder of Ahmed Merebet
I can see I was a little hasty to jump on the assumption that the rifles used were AN94s. On second thought, I hesitate to believe almost any article not published by the French police saying the weapons are AK47's. AK and AK47 has become a catch all descriptor of AK variants. Hell the IMI Galil and Vektor R4 are both technically AK variants but you'll never hear anyone call them AKs. Why? They look very different, but in almost every other way are reverse engineered AKs.
Regarding officer Merebet's murder and allegations that there is not enough blood I have this personal experience:
A K9 police colleague (in a country were criminals typically use .223, 5.56 and 7.62 calibers) responded to an armed robbery in progress. The suspects were still inside the building when he and his partner arrived on the scene so he breached a doorway and as he did so was shot by a suspect with an AK variant rifle. I never discovered if it was a stolen .223 R4 or an older AK in 7.62. The officer was stooped forward so the bullet entered just above his front body armor plate around the collar bone and traveled diagonally into the inside of the back plate. The bullet then zigzagged between the plates inside his body killing him instantly. I don't remember seeing a great deal of blood, or even much on the white cover placed over the body.
Being shot by a rifle in center mass is reliably deadly. Most victims will bleed out as cause of death. This bleeding can occur internally. Instantly fatal gunshot wounds to anywhere in the body are possible. Gunshot wounds follow similar patterns but will cause unique wounds in every circumstance.
Regarding officer Merebet's murder and allegations that there is not enough blood I have this personal experience:
A K9 police colleague (in a country were criminals typically use .223, 5.56 and 7.62 calibers) responded to an armed robbery in progress. The suspects were still inside the building when he and his partner arrived on the scene so he breached a doorway and as he did so was shot by a suspect with an AK variant rifle. I never discovered if it was a stolen .223 R4 or an older AK in 7.62. The officer was stooped forward so the bullet entered just above his front body armor plate around the collar bone and traveled diagonally into the inside of the back plate. The bullet then zigzagged between the plates inside his body killing him instantly. I don't remember seeing a great deal of blood, or even much on the white cover placed over the body.
Being shot by a rifle in center mass is reliably deadly. Most victims will bleed out as cause of death. This bleeding can occur internally. Instantly fatal gunshot wounds to anywhere in the body are possible. Gunshot wounds follow similar patterns but will cause unique wounds in every circumstance.
BombDr
Senior Member.
The weapon in this photo is a VZ58 short. This is a Czech variant of the AK series and both ballistically and mechanically it's virtually the same.I believe that Kalashnikovs AK-47 is most copied gun in the world and it is impossible to determine what exact model is used over those bad quality videos. The Kalashnikov AK-47 copies are available in every imaginable calibre from shotguns to bb-guns(no seriously we had in the Army few AK-variant bb-guns for training purposes). What comes to determing the calibre from those videos by recoil I would be suprised if somedy could make assumption from there that it is even a rifle calibre. It could be even some AK variant submachine gun with 9mm(probably not because of the size of the magazine). The 7.62 has not that hard recoil you can shoot it with one hand without problem with AK variant.
The recoil has been widely over exarated because it is almost useless with 7.62 calibre in shooting with full-auto even thought it has it limited uses for example in taking over trenches but that is basicly it. Anyway armchair generals in the internet has decided that Kalahnikov is useless when shooting fullauto because of the recoil which in some peoples head comes the idea that is really hard which it is not. Here is a picture potraying the guy who attacked the Jewish foodstore who had probably some connections to those other attackers. Maybe he had same gun as those other terrorist or not who knows
I realise the media is a bit lazy occasionally, but in this case they could be forgiven for identifying the weapon as an AK47.
Whitebeard
Senior Member.
A similar case happened in the case of Manfred Von Richthofen (The Red Baron) here's a part of the medical report compiled by the British after he was shot down on 21st April 1918
from... http://net.lib.byu.edu/estu/wwi/comment/richt.htmWe have made a surface examination of Captain Baron von Richthofen and find that there are only the entrance and exit wounds of one rifle bullet on the trunk. The entrance wound is on the right side about the level of the ninth-rib, which is fractured, just in front of the posterior axillary line. The bullet appears to have passed obliquely backwards through the chest striking the spinal column , from which it glanced in a forward direction and issued on the left side of the chest, at a level about two inches higher than its entrance on the right and about in the anterior axillary line.
OK in this case the round was a .303 bullet, either fired from Browns Sopwith Camel or, most likely, from an Australian infantry man, (and fired at a longer range) but it shows that once a bullet enters the human body it can deflect off bone etc and change direction drastically.
Jesus Do Asfalto
New Member
Hey, I'm new to the forum - tough a long time reader of its topics and threads -, so first of all greetings to all.
I just wanted to give a heads-up to all that might be interested in debunking certain ct claims on this matter, one of them being about that video that was shot on the roof by a french reporter (who later gave an interview on the material he shot - ).
So, in that video (this one: ) there's this guy who's wearing a bullet-proof vest (or at least that's what it seems). Now, to me there's nothing suspicious about that. He's probably a journalist who works in the building and has one (you know, being that he works in close-quarters with the Charlie Hebdo magazine - or whatever, I don't know - still, it is not unusual for a journalist to have one).
The problem, and reason of this heads-up, is simply this one: I've seen in ct blogs and pages this bullet-proof vest thing being put forth as a sign of a false-flag scenario. So I thought of passing along the information in this thread, so that, in case someone has relevant information on the matter, it can be more easily debunked or just be kept in mind when having a discussion on the matter (as to not be caught off guard by some ct proponent).
Thanks!
I just wanted to give a heads-up to all that might be interested in debunking certain ct claims on this matter, one of them being about that video that was shot on the roof by a french reporter (who later gave an interview on the material he shot - ).
So, in that video (this one: ) there's this guy who's wearing a bullet-proof vest (or at least that's what it seems). Now, to me there's nothing suspicious about that. He's probably a journalist who works in the building and has one (you know, being that he works in close-quarters with the Charlie Hebdo magazine - or whatever, I don't know - still, it is not unusual for a journalist to have one).
The problem, and reason of this heads-up, is simply this one: I've seen in ct blogs and pages this bullet-proof vest thing being put forth as a sign of a false-flag scenario. So I thought of passing along the information in this thread, so that, in case someone has relevant information on the matter, it can be more easily debunked or just be kept in mind when having a discussion on the matter (as to not be caught off guard by some ct proponent).
Thanks!
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Hevach
Senior Member.
Is there a version without the news frame at the bottom? The only time where the guy in the vest is close enough to try to tell if it's body armor or something like this he's crouching down and ends up behind the graphics.
In the US at least, it's not that uncommon for papers and especially local TV stations to have bullet proof vests that they'll give to reporters covering active crime scenes or dangerous neighborhoods (or just to put on in a safe situation to make it look to viewers like it's a dangerous one).
In the US at least, it's not that uncommon for papers and especially local TV stations to have bullet proof vests that they'll give to reporters covering active crime scenes or dangerous neighborhoods (or just to put on in a safe situation to make it look to viewers like it's a dangerous one).
Jesus Do Asfalto
New Member
Sorry, I only found this one.
TEEJ
Senior Member.
The Sky News reporter, Ian Woods, has confirmed that during the live report he meant to say sand had been 'put' there.
https://twitter.com/ianwoodssky
Hevach
Senior Member.
The more I look at it, the more I think it is a bullet proof vest and not a snow vest or something, but, yeah, not particularly suspicious. It's not that uncommon for journalists to have access to them, and considering both the guy in the vest and the cameraman (it wouldn't surprise me if he also had one on that we can't see) are both exposing themselves by being near the edge and looking over (not to mention pointing and moving around, potentially drawing attention to themselves if the shooters were watching roofs) if they have access, they should be using them.
It's not like they appear to be up there before the attack waiting for the show to start.
It's not like they appear to be up there before the attack waiting for the show to start.
Jesus Do Asfalto
New Member
If I had one, and there was shooting, I'd put it on. It's hardly suspicious.
Yes, of course, I think the same way. But you just wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) how something as irrelevant as this can start the most stupid argument around it (and rumours and so on). Like: Why did he have it (and you answer why), How did he have it (and you answer how), How was he there so fast and with his vest on (and you answer), and so on and so on.
deirdre
Senior Member.
your second video, when you click to watch on youtube has a warning by the uploader of graphic or offensive content.
Please see Micks warning about embedded videos... https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ch...ies-ignore-or-address.5476/page-5#post-141257
Jesus Do Asfalto
New Member
Sure, I knew that (about both warnings, Micks and YTs). It was just that, in the video itself there isn't any sort of violence really, so I didn't feel a disclaimer was necessary. But thanks for the heads-up.
Marcel Prout
New Member
"20 minutes", a French newspaper based in Paris, confirmed that it was common for newsrooms to have bulletproof vests even in the middle of Paris (I suppose it would be for safety when reporting on shootings and so).
If I had one, and there was shooting, I'd put it on. It's hardly suspicious.
http://m.20minutes.fr/societe/15133...ie-hebdo-fausses-informations-envahissent-web
The part about the bulletproof vest roughly translates to:
20minutes.fr said:6. JOURNALISTS WEARING BULLETPROOF VESTS IS INTRIGUING
On the video of the Charlie Hebdo attack filmed by the agence "Premières Lignes", we can see a journalist wearing a bulletproof vest.
There is nothing unusual in that, most newspapers have that type of equipment in their offices. It is the case for 20 minutes, located in Paris.
occams rusty scissor
Senior Member.
The argument about the vest doesnt really make much sense anyway - is it supposed to mean that the male on the roof wearing the vest is party to the staging? If so, why would he need a vest, as he would know what was to occur?
It is a far more reasonable assumption that this is someone trying to protect themselves and stay aware of what is going on I.E a reporter.
Budget Player Cadet
New Member
Kopp-Verlag is arguing that the scene in the supermarket was staged.
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/hintergr...verdacht-gegen-polizei-und-innenminister.html
Allegedly, based on the still frames they took, Amedy Coulibaly had had his hands bound and wasn't carrying a weapon.
Which is funny, because you can clearly see the weapon drop behind him on the video.
http://info.kopp-verlag.de/hintergr...verdacht-gegen-polizei-und-innenminister.html
Allegedly, based on the still frames they took, Amedy Coulibaly had had his hands bound and wasn't carrying a weapon.
Which is funny, because you can clearly see the weapon drop behind him on the video.
Some of you were all in on the no blood claim, exclaiming that there was nothing unnatural about that. I dont own a gun nor have I ever shot a gun, so I have no experience or knowledge either way. But now, a video has surfaced (which was posted on this thread) of the reporter standing at the scene were there is a lot of blood on the ground.
Did he get shot, have no blood at first, then slowly bleed out? Can a dead body bleed that much? Considering that the blood stains go all the way to the curb, and his feet were at the curb, can I assume that the blood would of ran from his head on the ground to his feet, insinuating a slight decline? Would this decline effect any gravitational influence upon his bleeding where the blood in his body would be drained in the same direction, thus minimizing the bleeding from his head?
On a side note, I really have to mention this. Someone posted the reporters explaination of what happened, and there is a glaring problem with it. He claims he "hadnt even realized he mixed up the words." Im sorry, this is just not indicative of his reaction at the time. In the moment, he catches himself, stops, backs up and rephrases the sentence. Of course he realized what he had said. He also says sand or sawdust was put on the ground (which is what he claims he meant to say), I will admit, the footage i have seen is a little dark, but I really dont see any large amounts of sand or sawdust. Im not saying there are none there, maybe they didnt put a lot down and the blood soaked right through, but in my experience, when throwing sand, or salt on the ground, it is almost inevitable that at some point, you spill some or throw more then intended in a certain area, and thus, there are spots more thick then the rest. Im not too concerned with the sand issue however, I am concerned with, in my opinion, his blatant lying on his explanation which I think deserves scrutiny.
Did he get shot, have no blood at first, then slowly bleed out? Can a dead body bleed that much? Considering that the blood stains go all the way to the curb, and his feet were at the curb, can I assume that the blood would of ran from his head on the ground to his feet, insinuating a slight decline? Would this decline effect any gravitational influence upon his bleeding where the blood in his body would be drained in the same direction, thus minimizing the bleeding from his head?
On a side note, I really have to mention this. Someone posted the reporters explaination of what happened, and there is a glaring problem with it. He claims he "hadnt even realized he mixed up the words." Im sorry, this is just not indicative of his reaction at the time. In the moment, he catches himself, stops, backs up and rephrases the sentence. Of course he realized what he had said. He also says sand or sawdust was put on the ground (which is what he claims he meant to say), I will admit, the footage i have seen is a little dark, but I really dont see any large amounts of sand or sawdust. Im not saying there are none there, maybe they didnt put a lot down and the blood soaked right through, but in my experience, when throwing sand, or salt on the ground, it is almost inevitable that at some point, you spill some or throw more then intended in a certain area, and thus, there are spots more thick then the rest. Im not too concerned with the sand issue however, I am concerned with, in my opinion, his blatant lying on his explanation which I think deserves scrutiny.
Why don't you get a gallon jug of light corn syrup with some red food dye in it, lay down on the sidewalk, and pour it gently on your neck. Then lay there for a few minutes (or you could use some substitute body). Then have several people come and pretend to revive you, spreading the blood around as they move you and walk around you. Then have them load you into a body bag, then put that on a stretcher and carry you away. Then have someone spread sand on any syrup that remains. Then have someone sweep up the sand. Then see what you have left on the sidewalk. Repeat this a few times with different amounts and pour locations.
Or for a simpler version, pour the corn syrup and food coloring on the ground, and just have people walk around in it.
Or take a little time, and consider what you are actually suggesting, and if it really fits any possible explanation of what happened.
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WeedWhacker
Senior Member
Seriously, I do not know the answer to this either, as am no "expert".
I recall a TV show that I used to watch on the cable subscription channel "Showtime" called "Dexter". About a police officer (with an extremely dark past) who happened to be a forensic blood spatter expert. I presume the scripts were enhanced by real forensics experts acting as consultants.
Might be a reference(?) Presumably since it's fiction, may not serve as a "go-to", though.
You might want to take a little time to get your facts straight before you say someone is blatantly lying. Listen to him again. (also on YouTube)
http://news.sky.com/video/1404175/where-the-policeman-was-shot
And the sand is quite apparent in the video, as in this photo:You can see the blood on the ground which has been put there to ..., because of the blood that was shed here yesterday
It seems very obvious he meant to say something like "the sand on the ground which has been put there to soak up the blood", but he got the words wrong, and then stumbled over the end of the sentence because he could tell something was wrong. Like he says, he did not realize exactly what at the time, and as it was live TV you can't just stop and say "wait, what did I just say"?
"blatant lying"?
Pete Tar
Senior Member.
You need to demonstrate the 'blatant lying' thoroughly - exact quote.
Even if he did correct himself, "blatant lying' is really an opinion and a bit of a stretch - him saying he didn't realise at the time can easily mean it didn't register beyond the quick self-correction and he promptly forgot about it as he continued talking, only to be reminded about it after all the internet speculation about it.
(but anyway I see Mick has proved you wrong on that point anyway)
Sometimes it's as if the universe is conspiring to assist in the proliferation of conspiracy theories. If the guy didn't have his hands cuffed, why oh why did he have to go down looking for all the world as if his hands were tied together?
To explain it, assuming his hands weren't tied, perhaps he was shot in the wrist, smashing the bone, making him drop his gun, as he instinctively grabbed his wrist with his good hand.
Or maybe he had a cunning plan to stitch the French police up by making it look as if he was handcuffed during the final shootout, by clasping his wrists together as he went down in a hail of bullets. (Cunning!)
Or maybe his wrist really were tied together, but judging by the fact that there aren't masses of outraged Muslims on the streets of Paris, I discount this possibility.
Graham2001
Active Member
The problem is that Sky News is owned by Rupert Murdoch, in the mind of a conspiracy theorist this means that anything they say is automatically a lie unless it confirms what the conspiracy theorist knows is true.
deirdre
Senior Member.
from the pics you can easily see his wrists were not tied at all. not even close and his hands are completely seperated in one pic. if you freeze video just right his hands are also wide apart as he goes into the door jam.
I'm thinking, if i were him, i would perhaps come to my death praying. although it is possible he grabbed his wrist due to bullet. or some other reason.
Yes, I thought it looked quite like his hands had come apart as he reached the doorway. But I've had a person flaming at me that from this footage it's obvious and as clear as day that he was cuffed.
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