LAX Shooting Conspiracy Theories - Los Angeles Airport - False Flag Theories

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Oxymoron

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Topic drift warning.....

Oxy, you can't tell people not to speculate about Ciancia, and then go off and speculate about the US government.

And "cavity searches" is just the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that's the problem here. We don't get cavity searches when we fly.

I'm blaming you Oxy. A tiny little bit.
I only quoted JR who said they were amenable to it.:eek:

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/la...rt-false-flag-theories.2603/page-2#post-73693

Frankly they can look right up my butt if terrorists start hiding stuff there. Unless you regret not flying on 911.

Frankly, I couldn't understand why terrorists should be hiding stuff up JR's butt in the first place anyway. JR should say "NO". :(
 
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Josh Heuer

Active Member
*topic starts*
*topic drifts over to attacking a member*
*mick gets the last word and says stay on topic*

I see this in soooo many topics...you guys aren't even discussing the shooting, it seems like half of you are trying to attack oxy and the other half are patting each other's backs with the like button.

Mick, you blame this partially on Oxy? I blame it on YOU. People like you keep the crazies coming back for more. The more you debunk, the more those kids down at the end of the street scream 'shill!' and believe even more conspiracy garble.
Your turn. GO.
 

Mick West

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Mick, you blame this partially on Oxy? I blame it on YOU. People like you keep the crazies coming back for more. The more you debunk, the more those kids down at the end of the street scream 'shill!' and believe even more conspiracy garble.
Your turn. GO.

You don't seem to be serious, so I won't respond.

I was serious about inflammatory rhetoric being a problem, and I do think Oxy contributes to it in a miniscule way. There are real issues with what's going on in the world, but we need to discuss then honestly and without simply trying score emotional points. It's obvious to everyone that Jones tells untruths, and appeals primarily to fear.
 

Oxymoron

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*topic starts*
*topic drifts over to attacking a member*
*mick gets the last word and says stay on topic*

I see this in soooo many topics...you guys aren't even discussing the shooting, it seems like half of you are trying to attack oxy and the other half are patting each other's backs with the like button.

Mick, you blame this partially on Oxy? I blame it on YOU. People like you keep the crazies coming back for more. The more you debunk, the more those kids down at the end of the street scream 'shill!' and believe even more conspiracy garble.
Your turn. GO.
Yep, I think Josh is being a bit tongue in cheek there as well. None of us are perfect and the thread has lost its way a bit and I am partly responsible.

I recognise this forum has a bias but I accept that and I also recognise Mick is often put in a difficult position which I do my best not to exacerbate but sometimes I could do better.

It is a valuable site but it could also, as Josh says, be seen as a 'shill' site by many. That is why I don't like it when it gets personal with people like AJ. Debunk what he says if it is wrong... fair enough. I am quite happy to debunk his nonsense as well. The FEMA camps/coffins are pure fantasy land, (although I do find the caskets odd but then that is probably because I am English and we don't have them here)

My last post was a bit inflammatory but I thought it was funny and it is also serious in the regard that it is 'exactly the type of post/statement' that would drive people like AJ into an enormous rant... and I can understand why it would.

I think it wrong that people give up their rights so easily and even 'offer' to give them up to a Govt that has made it plain, it already has scant/no regard or respect for peoples rights and does want to take rights away. Those rights have been fought for and to give them up like that is plain wrong IMO.

Anyway, I will not post anymore on this thread... at least until something new comes to light.

No bad feelings. :)
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
Like I said previously, AJ is more a reflection of his viewers, 'already established views', rather than the other way around. Which came first, 'the chicken or the egg'... That's rhetorical BTW.

But yes we will wait and see.
So I take that will be your rebuttal after all has been revealed?
Come on Oxy, you have to know that is absurd. People don't just get ideas of a New World Order out of the sky. Somebody somewhere is a huge role in purveying those notions. I personally know people who feel down Alex Jones' rabbit hole and I've seen how their world view has shifted with my own ey witnessed it in myself and my views until I reached the conclusion that Alex Jones is a liar and is full of crap.

Honestly, how familiar are you with Alex Jones' style of rhetoric? I've listened to his show more than enough to be able to recognize his jargon when I see it. How many callers have thanked Alex for 'waking them up'?
 

Mick West

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It is a valuable site but it could also, as Josh says, be seen as a 'shill' site by many. That is why I don't like it when it gets personal with people like AJ. Debunk what he says if it is wrong... fair enough. I am quite happy to debunk his nonsense as well. The FEMA camps/coffins are pure fantasy land, (although I do find the caskets odd but then that is probably because I am English and we don't have them here)

Generally I far prefer to focus on debunking claims of evidence. At some point though there's a "meta" issue, if you get a vast amount of bunk all coming from one place, then it's worth having a look at what is behind that.

The individual claims though should still stand or fall on their own merits. The "WTF is Alex Jones about" thing is another issue. We can't say "it's false because AJ says it's true".

AJ came up because he claimed people would blame him. I think he is quite possibly a little bit to blame for creating a target in the TSA. But it's just a little. Blame is not binary.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
It's quite possible he's visited Metabunk as well, seeing as a lot of the traffic here is from conspiracy theorists googling thing.
Just pointing out what you said Mick. If you're really trying to say Oxy'a rhetoric is the kind of thing to blame for this guy's actions, what role does your own website play in it all? We here all know this isn't some government funded website (it's very easy to prove that, anyone with 2 minutes of time can figure that out). But if you go out on the web you'll see people claiming it is, that Mick is some government agent and practically everyone who posts here is.
Doesn't that fuel the fire a bit? While you're helping thin out the layers of bunk out there, it's also counter-productive in the sense that the people who commit to these conspiracies won't verify what they've read and they'll take your site as being some government operation no matter what you say or do.
Who's to blame? Paul Ciancia is to blame, plain and simple. not Oxy, not Mick West, not Alex Jones...etc.
 

Mick West

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Just pointing out what you said Mick. If you're really trying to say Oxy'a rhetoric is the kind of thing to blame for this guy's actions, what role does your own website play in it all? We here all know this isn't some government funded website (it's very easy to prove that, anyone with 2 minutes of time can figure that out). But if you go out on the web you'll see people claiming it is, that Mick is some government agent and practically everyone who posts here is.
Doesn't that fuel the fire a bit? While you're helping thin out the layers of bunk out there, it's also counter-productive in the sense that the people who commit to these conspiracies won't verify what they've read and they'll take your site as being some government operation no matter what you say or do.
Who's to blame? Paul Ciancia is to blame, plain and simple. not Oxy, not Mick West, not Alex Jones...etc.

Of course he is. But rhetoric about TSA agents helps makes TSA agents a target, and can prompt action. Alex ranting about the TSA makes the TSA a target. And I think it's entirely possible that if he was not fixated on the TSA, he would not have killed anyone.

I really don't think the existence of debunking web sites would make someone more likely to kill someone in particular (except maybe me).

You can't really tell how much rhetoric affects what happens, but it seems pretty clear that it is involved in the decision making process.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
Of course he is. But rhetoric about TSA agents helps makes TSA agents a target, and can prompt action. Alex ranting about the TSA makes the TSA a target. And I think it's entirely possible that if he was not fixated on the TSA, he would not have killed anyone.

I really don't think the existence of debunking web sites would make someone more likely to kill someone in particular (except maybe me).

You can't really tell how much rhetoric affects what happens, but it seems pretty clear that it is involved in the decision making process.
I don't think that's true. I think people who are batshit crazy, are just batshit crazy. Plain and simple. He was likely to explode anyway.
 

Mick West

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I don't think that's true. I think people who are batshit crazy, are just batshit crazy. Plain and simple. He was likely to explode anyway.

So if someone is crazy, and you tell them their problems are due to the traitorous TSA, are you helping?

He did not pick the TSA at random. He picked it because he had been indoctrinated by conspiracy theory rhetoric. While it's possible he might have gone killed some old lady instead, that's hardly the point.

You don't give targets to crazy people.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
So if someone is crazy, and you tell them their problems are due to the traitorous TSA, are you helping?

He did not pick the TSA at random. He picked it because he had been indoctrinated by conspiracy theory rhetoric. While it's possible he might have gone killed some old lady instead, that's hardly the point.

You don't give targets to crazy people.
You're right, you don't give targets to crazy people. They pick them themselves.
If not the TSA, this guy would have found some other reason to kill some other person or type of people. His own reasons.
 

AluminumTheory

Senior Member.
You're right, you don't give targets to crazy people. They pick them themselves.
If not the TSA, this guy would have found some other reason to kill some other person or type of people. His own reasons.
Perhaps, but what is not known at this point is how mentally ill this guy was. It's obvious that he had issues, but what caused those issues and The extent of their severity is not known. I don't doubt at all that constantly listening to delusional paranoia could possibly makea young mind delusional And paranoid
 

Mick West

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You're right, you don't give targets to crazy people. They pick them themselves.
If not the TSA, this guy would have found some other reason to kill some other person or type of people. His own reasons.

He does not live in a vacuum. He takes in information from the world around him. That information affects what he does. He picked the TSA because he had been told they were traitors.
 

Bemused to Death

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He does not live in a vacuum. He takes in information from the world around him. That information affects what he does. He picked the TSA because he had been told they were traitors.

It is true that we don't live in a vacuum and are influenced by what we receive. But if some nut were to go off and shoot Ted Cruz or some Tea Party type, how many people would place part of the blame at the feet of the msm and the dems who were calling them all manner of grisly names during the shutdown?
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Perhaps, but what is not known at this point is how mentally ill this guy was. It's obvious that he had issues, but what caused those issues and The extent of their severity is not known. I don't doubt at all that constantly listening to delusional paranoia could possibly makea young mind delusional And paranoid
He picked the TSA though, not some old lady or someone else.
 

Mick West

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Staff member
It is true that we don't live in a vacuum and are influenced by what we receive. But if some nut were to go off and shoot Ted Cruz or some Tea Party type, how many people would place part of the blame at the feet of the msm and the dems who were calling them all manner of grisly names during the shutdown?

Like what, for example?
 

Mick West

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See this is the type of thing:
http://www.revolutionnow.us/node/989

WASHINGTON (PNN) - August 6, 2013 - For years, sources within the alternative media have been predicting that eventually there will be a massive roll out of Amerikan Gestapo Transportation Security Administration division VIPR teams that will patrol local neighborhoods, transit areas, and high profile events. The implementation of this militarized terrorist pig thug cop collaborator force has happened very slowly, over the course of a decade, so the general population has yet to catch on, and mainstream media has been able to completely ignore this situation. That is, until now.

This week at Union Station in New York, commuters noticed armed Amerikan Gestapo agents of the state patrolling the area and illegally searching people randomly.
Content from External Source
That kind of rhetoric, cloaked in "patriotism" is basically casting TSA agents as legitimate targets for people who feel they are fighting a revolutionary war. It's directing anger towards the TSA, who by and large are just ordinary people doing their jobs.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
This guy had mental issues, plain and simple. He was likely going to commit the same act or maybe something similar regardless of what he read on the Internet. Would you then blame it on whatever else he read? It's the plain and simple fact that he wasn't right in the head and needed help/medication/whatever.
If reading the type of conspiratorial nonsense caused him to commit the act, then I suppose anyone who read it could potentially be a 'victim'. It's not brainwashing. He read stuff, his crazy mind had a different view of the world in the first place, he snapped.
 

Oxymoron

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Banned
See this is the type of thing:
http://www.revolutionnow.us/node/989

WASHINGTON (PNN) - August 6, 2013 - For years, sources within the alternative media have been predicting that eventually there will be a massive roll out of Amerikan Gestapo Transportation Security Administration division VIPR teams that will patrol local neighborhoods, transit areas, and high profile events. The implementation of this militarized terrorist pig thug cop collaborator force has happened very slowly, over the course of a decade, so the general population has yet to catch on, and mainstream media has been able to completely ignore this situation. That is, until now.

This week at Union Station in New York, commuters noticed armed Amerikan Gestapo agents of the state patrolling the area and illegally searching people randomly.
Content from External Source
That kind of rhetoric, cloaked in "patriotism" is basically casting TSA agents as legitimate targets for people who feel they are fighting a revolutionary war. It's directing anger towards the TSA, who by and large are just ordinary people doing their jobs.
Well y'all seem happy to continue off topic without me. Should be called the 'Pin The Blame On The Donkey' thread.

I have had a rethink about it and decided I wasn't even partly responsible for taking it off topic as y'all were well off and running before I even made a post.

I think the type of blaming rhetoric on this thread is highly counterproductive and and patently false.

You say it's AJ's fault that a guy shoots a TSA guy on absolutely no evidence other than AJ rants about them among many other 'arms of the fascist state'. It would not have mattered whether the guy shot cops, bankers, politicians or a raft of others who AJ has ranted about... According to Metabunk wisdom, it would have been AJ's fault. Can't really lose can you... whoever gets attacked... "AJ's fault".

The government is in no way (according to you) responsible for antagonising and pushing people to distraction by forcing said paramilitary fascist forces on the people.

The people employed by the govt are not responsible for their abuse of power because they are 'only doing what they are told'. Orders is orders.

Meta Members are not responsible by making it plain that they not only endorse cavity searches but OFFER IT, and in so doing are making it clear they expect it to be applicable to all.

Mick quotes some site called 'revolution now' or some such and virtually attributes it to AJ. I mean, if you are going to blame someone, at least have the courtesy to actually quote 'them' and not someone who spells American as Amerikan.

But the fact of the matter is, if AJ had said or done anything that was illegal, the NSA may have noticed, (or perhaps they are incompetent and it was all a conspiracy theory that they are spying on every word on the internet) and really they can't even catch the much advertised loudmouths like AJ.

So what do you want. You want him banned do you? And everyone who thinks like him? And you call him paranoid?
 

Mick West

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You say it's AJ's fault that a guy shoots a TSA guy on absolutely no evidence other than AJ rants about them among many other 'arms of the fascist state'. It would not have mattered whether the guy shot cops, bankers, politicians or a raft of others who AJ has ranted about... According to Metabunk wisdom, it would have been AJ's fault. Can't really lose can you... whoever gets attacked... "AJ's fault".

No that's not what I said. I've said the rhetoric contributes towards the TSA agents being viewed as a target.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
Things you read affect your mind.
Certainly, I mean that's a bit of a broad statement but yes, I agree.

As I said in another topic though, those things you read, it's ultimately up to YOU, the reader, to decipher and figure out what's real or fake. If you read the exact same things he has (and it's likely you have), does that mean you're going to go loony and do the same thing?
It's mental illness, plain and simple.
 

Mick West

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Certainly, I mean that's a bit of a broad statement but yes, I agree.

As I said in another topic though, those things you read, it's ultimately up to YOU, the reader, to decipher and figure out what's real or fake. If you read the exact same things he has (and it's likely you have), does that mean you're going to go loony and do the same thing?
It's mental illness, plain and simple.

Mental illness is never plain and simple.
 

Bemused to Death

Banned
Banned
Things you read affect your mind.

I recall when that guy at the DC naval yard went off and the news came out that he was addicted to violent video games like GTA that folks were falling all over themselves insisting that there was no causal connection. Is this bit with AJ somehow different?
 

Oxymoron

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Banned
No that's not what I said. I've said the rhetoric contributes towards the TSA agents being viewed as a target.
So what about the rest... the police, bankers politicians etc that AJ slates all the time. Has he got to work on them to get someone to attack them because his game is obviously off because the guy only attacked the TSA?

He could have attacked anyone... you are doing a NIST, (they could be targets), reverse engineering to fit the facts. The guy shot TSA, AJ must have brainwashed him to target the TSA. :rolleyes:
 

Oxymoron

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I recall when that guy at the DC naval yard went off and the news came out that he was addicted to violent video games like GTA that folks were falling all over themselves insisting that there was no causal connection. Is this bit with AJ somehow different?
Yes it is different. AJ is Metabunks pet hate and that is what it is all about.

Strange how AJ manages to brainwash people to do his bidding but it would be far too difficult for MK Ultra to brainwash some mentally challenged person, even with the aid of drugs and sleep deprivation. AJ is so clever he can do it over the internet though.
 
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Mick West

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I recall when that guy at the DC naval yard went off and the news came out that he was addicted to violent video games like GTA that folks were falling all over themselves insisting that there was no causal connection. Is this bit with AJ somehow different?

Yes it's very different. Games are just games. Alex Jones claims to be reality. He's quite literally telling people that the world is about to end, as if it's true. Games don't do that.
 

Mick West

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So what about the rest... the police, bankers politicians etc that AJ slates all the time. Has he got to work on them to get someone to attack them because his game is obviously off because the guy only attacked the TSA?

He could have attacked anyone... you are doing a NIST, (they could be targets), reverse engineering to fit the facts. The guy shot TSA, AJ must have brainwashed him to target the TSA. :rolleyes:

You are making far more this than there is. AJ spews lots of anti-TSA rhetoric, that type of rhetoric almost certainly affected the thinking of Ciancia. Ciancia shot some TSA agents. The rhetoric was probably partly responsible for his choice of target.

That's it. I really don't see what's debatable there.

It's not about ascribing blame, it's about describing what probably happened.
 

Mick West

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Those were examples that came up during the coverage. It was pretty ugly rhetoric along the way and the TP is certainly vilified by the the left as a matter of course.

I mean actually quote some. Stuff like this, equating TSA agents to Nazi holocaust guards:
http://www.infowars.com/tsa-tactics-find-ominous-parallel-in-nazi-germany/


Or this:
http://www.infowars.com/tv-ads-normalize-thuggish-tsa-behavior/

In the videos below, ad agencies attempt to portray Gestapo TSA goons in a light and comical fashion. The result of this is to excuse and normalize what a few short years ago was considered the sort of abusive activity found primarily in totalitarian police states, not republics.

Scowling TSA goons going through our luggage – and sticking their hands down our pants – is now part of the routine.
Content from External Source
 
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Oxymoron

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Banned
It's not about ascribing blame, it's about describing what probably happened.

It's not about ascribing blame, it's about describing what MAY have happened but which can never be proved one way or the other.

It's the same argument as with the antidepressants. Do people who take them commit suicide because of the side effects from taking them OR because they are mentally ill in the first place?

Now what side of that argument would you champion?
 

Mick West

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It's not about ascribing blame, it's about describing what MAY have happened but which can never be proved one way or the other.

It's the same argument as with the antidepressants. Do people who take them commit suicide because of the side effects from taking them OR because they are mentally ill in the first place?

Now what side of that argument would you champion?

Seems like a different argument to me.

Inflammatory rhetoric sometimes inflames.
 

Bemused to Death

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Banned
Yes it's very different. Games are just games. Alex Jones claims to be reality. He's quite literally telling people that the world is about to end, as if it's true. Games don't do that.

They do for some. I was called for jury duty in the infamous Nutcase gang case in Oakland several years back.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Nut-Cases-wide-swath-of-destruction-Oakland-2671816.php

They got high and played video games during the day, the young men later told police. Their favorite was one called "Grand Theft Auto III," in which players win points for committing violent crimes. When darkness fell, they told investigators, they did it for real on the streets of Oakland.
Content from External Source
 

Mick West

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I think part of the disconnect between viewpoints here stems from the fact that Oxy, Josh, and presumably BtD, are much more sympathetic to Jones' world view than other skeptics, and hence they see his rhetoric as more reasonable, and hence less inflammatory.

If you think there's a fascist NWO takeover in progress, with the TSA a complicit thugs, then call them out actually seems sensible. But I don't think this, so I seems like Jones is just making up nonsense, and (the difference from violent video games again), he claims that his nonsense is real. He's actually telling people that they will soon be interred in FEMA camps and/or culled quite soon.

I don't think there's any evidence of this, so I think that spouting rhetoric that might cause people to take hasty and violent action is a bad thing. If you think his world view is more accurate, then you might be less inclined to draw any such connections.
 

Oxymoron

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Banned
I mean actually quote some. Stuff like this, equating TSA agents to Nazi holocaust guards:
http://www.infowars.com/tsa-tactics-find-ominous-parallel-in-nazi-germany/


Or this:
http://www.infowars.com/tv-ads-normalize-thuggish-tsa-behavior/

In the videos below, ad agencies attempt to portray Gestapo TSA goons in a light and comical fashion. The result of this is to excuse and normalize what a few short years ago was considered the sort of abusive activity found primarily in totalitarian police states, not republics.

Scowling TSA goons going through our luggage – and sticking their hands down our pants – is now part of the routine.
Content from External Source

I see nothing wrong with what is there. Why should they xray people... ? There is no valid reason for it. There are similarities and they are obvious.

Even the 'Funny Commercials' :( show the surly authoritarianism of these people.


They are lampooned in cinema as crazy perverts who do despicable and invasive things. People know what they are.

 
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Mick West

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"crazy perverts who do despicable and invasive things" sounds like people who deserve something bad to happen to them? Don't you think?
 
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