Flat Earth Theory Debunked by Short Flights (QF27 & QF28) From Australia to South America

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member
There are commercial flights that land at the actual South Pole. More than one, I believe.
https://www.polar-quest.com/trips/antarctica/fly-to-the-south-pole-2017


They're just south of 50,000 USD per person. But since this is such a monumentally important subject to FE believers and there are so many of them, they could get a crowd funding project going. It would only take 500 FE believers donating $100 each to send one person to the South Pole. Surely they could raise more than that. Send an expedition of prominent FE proponents... Eric Dubay, Jeran, Mark Sargent, etc.

Land there anywhere near the Dec. solstice, and they'd see the sun travel in a complete circle around the horizon. What's the explanation? That could happen at the North Pole on a FE, but how could it happen anywhere else? So, somehow the Globe Earth Konspiracy has tricked them and flown them to the North Pole? But it's winter at the North Pole. No sunlight at all.

Hell, I would contribute $100.
 
Last edited:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I asked that same question and the answer I ended up with was no. There's all kinds of laws (ETOPS law) and regulations about flying in antartica. For example Content from external source Planes flying below 72 degrees latitude need special survival equipment on board.
https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/33938/do-any-flights-go-over-the-south-pole
And from what I can find no one flies non-stop Perth to Buenos, but I may not be looking hard enough.
I think the reason why is more that it would need to be a 747 and there simply isn't enough demand for that route.

I've looked into this "special survival equipment", I think this possibly relates to the FAA advisory circular 120-47 (attached).
20170516-230600-3by3o.jpg
Does anyone know of anything specifically required for over-Antarctica?
 

Attachments

Last edited:

M Settle

New Member
OK, let me ask this another way...

Is there any Charles Lindbergh-, Sir Richard Branson-, Roald Amundsen-, Amelia Earhart-type figure who has, for the sake of being "the first", flown from Perth to Buenos Aires or vice versa?

Shouldn't be a big deal. Swiss pilots Bertrand Piccard and Andre Borschberg went around the world in a solar powered plane on Jul 26, 2016.

Would be nice to see a time-lapse of that flight if it ever happened/happens.
 

TWCobra

Senior Member
Has anyone ever flown non-stop from Perth, AU to Buenos Aires, AR? This trip would be approximately 7800 miles and would cross very near the South Pole. This distance is shorter than a great circle route, non-stop flight from Bangkok to LAX (which used to be an every day occurrence).

View attachment 26898Also, is there any video (time lapse) of a satellite going right over the South Pole?
The practical problem for an airliner flying over the South Pole is lack of accurate relief data for terrain clearance in the case of a depressurisation. Also Perth-Buenos Aires is not a city pair which would have a great deal of traffic. So, no. I dont believe an airliner would have flown that route.
 

cloudspotter

Senior Member
The practical problem for an airliner flying over the South Pole is lack of accurate relief data for terrain clearance in the case of a depressurisation. Also Perth-Buenos Aires is not a city pair which would have a great deal of traffic. So, no. I dont believe an airliner would have flown that route.
Bit of a problem for Byrd in 1929 too!

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/byrd-flies-over-south-pole
 

Whitebeard

Senior Member
OK, let me ask this another way...

Is there any Charles Lindbergh-, Sir Richard Branson-, Roald Amundsen-, Amelia Earhart-type figure who has, for the sake of being "the first", flown from Perth to Buenos Aires or vice versa?

Shouldn't be a big deal. Swiss pilots Bertrand Piccard and Andre Borschberg went around the world in a solar powered plane on Jul 26, 2016.

Would be nice to see a time-lapse of that flight if it ever happened/happens.
The first Trans Antarctic flight was 1935 by Lincoln Ellsworth
(there were earlier flights over Antarctica, most notably by Riiser-Larsen, but these did not cross the continent, but did explore the interior)
Ariel mapping of the entire continent was started by Operation Highjump in 1946 and continued, or continues to this day, involving teams from many nations - USA, UK, Norway, USSR / Russia, Sweden, Chile, China... etc, etc, etc,
 

M Settle

New Member
Bit of a problem for Byrd in 1929 too!

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/byrd-flies-over-south-pole
My suggestion that a Sir Richard Branson-type explorer or a "first of"-type guy fly from Perth to Buenos Aires or vice versa is because that route takes you nearly right over the South Pole...not along the edge of the continent. And with a normal aircraft that flies at 39,000 ft there shouldn't be any concerns whatsoever for high passes that are un-mapped. And with an aircraft that flies long distances on a normal tank of fuel, 7800ish miles shouldn't even be a challenge.

And if someone does/has, I'd love to see them post a time-lapse video of their flight so these FEers will be debunked once and for all.

And, I'd love to go along on the flight!
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
My suggestion that a Sir Richard Branson-type explorer or a "first of"-type guy fly from Perth to Buenos Aires or vice versa is because that route takes you nearly right over the South Pole...not along the edge of the continent. And with a normal aircraft that flies at 39,000 ft there shouldn't be any concerns whatsoever for high passes that are un-mapped. And with an aircraft that flies long distances on a normal tank of fuel, 7800ish miles shouldn't even be a challenge.
But why would they? It's not a particularly special route. It's far more interesting to fly TO the South Pole, and even that does not require a Richard Branson type. It's something that's within the reach of millions of people.
https://www.polar-quest.com/trips/antarctica/fly-to-the-south-pole-2017
20170517-085801-lijql.jpg
 

M Settle

New Member
Point of Fact: The flight from Capetown to Auckland doesn't go over the South Pole, it skirts the continent just like Ellsworth's flight did.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member
Point of Fact: The flight from Capetown to Auckland doesn't go over the South Pole, it skirts the continent just like Ellsworth's flight did.
Actually, it is the great circle between Cape Town and Auckland doesn't go over the South Pole, but the PanAm flight did.
PS The same is true for San Francisco, London and the North Pole.
 

Amber Robot

Member
Land there anywhere near the Dec. solstice, and they'd see the sun travel in a complete circle around the horizon. What's the explanation? That could happen at the North Pole on a FE...
No, it couldn't. Even from the north pole on the flat earth, the Sun wouldn't get near the horizon.
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member
I understand. But I'm granting them something, at least. In this video, the author is trying to prove something that's not relevant to our conversation, but he's also assuming something that is.


This is the midnight sun from somewhere within the arctic circle. What the FE believers think they are seeing is the sun making a complete circle round the North Pole. It's important to note that in their model the sun not only makes a daily circle over the disk earth, it moves closer and farther away from the North Pole as well during the year, which explains the seasons. In June the sun is circling over the Tropic of Cancer and in December it's circling over the Tropic of Capricorn. So in June the sun is just close enough to the North Pole that you can see it at all times, without it going down over the horizon. They interpret the sun getting lower and higher in the sky as the result of the camera not being at the exact North Pole; so sometimes the sun is farther away and sometimes closer as it circles.

Yes, it's a confused idea. But I'm granting them that at least the sun would circle the horizon at the North Pole. But all FE believers I'm aware of concede that in their model the sun could not make a complete circle of the horizon at the South Pole, which is why they reject all South Pole videos showing just that as fakes. (As does this YT author in this video.)
 
Last edited:

TWCobra

Senior Member
And with a normal aircraft that flies at 39,000 ft there shouldn't be any concerns whatsoever for high passes that are un-mapped. And with an aircraft that flies long distances on a normal tank of fuel, 7800ish miles shouldn't even be a challenge.
all airliners are required to carry sufficient fuel to cope with a depressurisation or an engine failure at any point along the intended route, under instrument flight rules. The chart we use for SYD-SCL has about 75% of the continent as a no fly zone for this reason.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
all airliners are required to carry sufficient fuel to cope with a depressurisation or an engine failure at any point along the intended route, under instrument flight rules. The chart we use for SYD-SCL has about 75% of the continent as a no fly zone for this reason.
But all you'd need to cross that no-fly zone is more fuel, right?
 

TWCobra

Senior Member
But all you'd need to cross that no-fly zone is more fuel, right?
No, because we are IFR we'd need accurate terrain data.

Normally in a 747 we would descend to 14000 feet during a depressurisation event, then eventually to 10,000 feet once the oxygen supplied to the passengers runs out. That vertical profile gives us better fuel range.

If there is known terrain higher than those figures along the route, such as crossing the Andes or Himalayas, escape procedures are devised to limit the time at those higher altitude.

That does require more fuel, however, we have to be able to assure proper terrain clearance to do that because, unlike Admiral Byrd, IFR means you could be in cloud the whole way to destination.

If we can't guarantee statutory terrain clearance, then we simply aren't permitted to fly over that terrain.

The charter flights that do sightseeing over Antarctica also have the IFR restriction. This was imposed after the Air New Zealand Mt Erebus disaster in 1979.
So they only fly in the parts of the continent where terrain data is accurately known.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
It does seem strange that elevations aren't accurately mapped across Antarctica by now. I know the Shuttle radar missions didn't cover the far northern and southern latitudes, but you'd think a satellite could have done it by now.
 

josh_whiley

New Member
Just wanna lend my voice...
I am a Qantas flight attendant who regularly operates QF27/28.
As far as I know, they are real. In that, every time I've done it, I've left Sydney, and about 12-13 hours later, landed in what I'm pretty sure is Chile. And then a couple days later I leave SCL and then about 13-14 hours later I'm home.
Also, sometimes I operate QF63/64, SYD/JNB/SYD. Same thing.

ALSO, I've operated Antarctic sightseeing flights where we've left sydney, flown over/around what was definitely Antarctica sightseeing for a few hours, and then flown home. It's a long day at work but it definitely happened.

Please see attached photo evidence of all of this :)
IMG_0303.JPG
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Josh sent me some originals to check GPS, unfortunately the iPhone get intermittent signal in a plane, so does not always have GPS date in the pics. The above one did not, but had a date stamp:
Date Time Original: Feb 5, 2017, 1:17:45 PM

Another photo of some sparse sea ice DID have GPS.
image2.JPG
Includes an accurate UTC time, which is great.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member
Josh sent me some originals to check GPS, unfortunately the iPhone get intermittent signal in a plane, so does not always have GPS date in the pics. The above one did not, but had a date stamp:
Date Time Original: Feb 5, 2017, 1:17:45 PM
This photo is probably from one of Qantas Antarctica Flights. On their website, there are links to youtube, Instagram and Facebook with more photos and videos, but I could find no flight tracks.
 

Fritz

New Member
I've been following this flat earth bull for a little while now and have found that the only reason they say the long flights don't exist in the Southern Hemisphere is because they can't account for the distances involved.
Santiago to Sydney for example. On the flat earth map it's almost 25,000Km, so not a possible flight.
In fact, I haven't seen one single flat earther explain the wildly innacurate distances at all.
So, just for the fun of it, I took their map, did a little magic, some math and worked out a way to accurately calculate distances from any 2 points using the flat earth map. (to within a few metres)
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iYUfEG0aAs
It's a shameless plug, but it absolutely destroys their flat earth map.
 

Rory

Senior Member
It's a shameless plug, but it absolutely destroys their flat earth map.
From what I've been seeing the last six months or so, having realised the flaws in claiming the AE projection map as a genuine flat earth map, most - if not all - of the leading flat earthers have abandoned it and retreated to a position of, "we don't have the right map, we're working on it. We'll be able to answer all these questions when we figure out the map."

Interestingly, about the only flat earthers I've seen come out of the movement were a few thinking ones who set themselves the task of figuring out an accurate flat map, only to discover it was completely impossible.
 

Juju

New Member
I took the flight from Auckland to Santiago, Chile last year and it was approx 11 hours and 20
Minutes - we also returned a month later - it is a real flight
 

Rory

Senior Member
From what I've been seeing the last six months or so, having realised the flaws in claiming the AE projection map as a genuine flat earth map, most - if not all - of the leading flat earthers have abandoned it and retreated to a position of, "we don't have the right map, we're working on it. We'll be able to answer all these questions when we figure out the map."
It does also seem that flat earthers don't seem to be bothered too much about southern hemisphere flights anymore, nor the Antarctic. Probably because they realised there was no way they could win that battle, even in the fantasy realm, so they just left it alone.

Or maybe that's just my imagination. Do others get the same sense? Or are there still plenty going on about weird diversions, fake flights, and Admiral Byrd?
 
To debunk the Flat Earth theory, you can just use Sydney to Santiago, Chile, Quantas flight 27, 7000 miles. 12 hour flight. This flight would be impossible on the Flat Earth model, requiring the plane to travel at twice the speed of sound.




Santiago is the furthest south South American city with direct flights to Australia.
You are correct sir the Santiago, Chile flight to Sydney, Australia is a 12 hour flight The model however has one flaw that is withholding one unique fact that is quite evident if you have ever flown this route. This flight is a SOUTH SouthWest pattern sir.
Simple navigation of the "⛵⛵⛵Mare Magellunicum/Brasiliae Australis to Terra Australis Incognita.

#GlobeModelDebunked
 

Attachments

Last edited by a moderator:

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
You are correct sir the Santiago, Chile flight to Sydney, Australia is a 12 hour flight The model however has one flaw that is withholding one unique fact that is quite evident if you have ever flown this route. This flight is a SOUTH SouthWest pattern sir.
Simple navigation of the "⛵⛵⛵Mare Magellunicum/Brasiliae Australis to Terra Australis Incognita.
Can you explain this a little better, perhaps with a map of the full route you think the plane flies?
 

Pabby1980

New Member
The flights exist in the system but when I tried to book them I could not. I tried with 3 different companies online, untill I resorted to phoning them. Although there are nonstop flights inside the database on booking they are not available. Everyone most make a pitstop.
I just booked a direct Air New Zealand flight from Buenos Aires to Auckland on Tuesday 24th April 2018 with no problem whatsoever.

It's part of a round the world trip from the UK, to US, to Central America, then South America, NZ, Australia, SE Asia, India then back to the UK.

The BA to AUK leg is 13.5 hours.

Anyway, as I said, no issues booking the flight at all, and very reasonable price too (about £1500/$2000) for the two of us.
 

DJC

Member
I just booked a direct Air New Zealand flight from Buenos Aires to Auckland on Tuesday 24th April 2018 with no problem whatsoever.

It's part of a round the world trip from the UK, to US, to Central America, then South America, NZ, Australia, SE Asia, India then back to the UK.

The BA to AUK leg is 13.5 hours.

Anyway, as I said, no issues booking the flight at all, and very reasonable price too (about £1500/$2000) for the two of us.
send the confirmation ...just to confirm so there are no questions ..you do have the confirmation yes?
 
Top