Debunked: Sandy Hook Hoax (OP includes quick links )

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Cairenn

Senior Member.
Can you imagine the trauma every child had every time they passed that school? It had to be demolished, the shooting site at FT Hood was demolished, several others have been as well. Once in awhile one isn't like the UT tower.

Let the CTs stew, they will never be happy, the mental health of the children and the folks of Newtown are far more important.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
I just wish they'd have left the school alone. I understand why some wanted it demolished, but for the sake of silencing the conspiratorialists, I would have preferred it been left in tact.
Is there anyone…I mean ANYONE who believes that leaving the school intact would "silence" the conspiratorialists? :rolleyes:

Wouldn't the next CT claim obviously be: "Sure they left the school up, but only after destroying all our vindicating evidence inside!!" ?
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
I realize these crime scenes are incredibly sensitive. I just wish they'd have left the school alone. I understand why some wanted it demolished, but for the sake of silencing the conspiratorialists, I would have preferred it been left in tact.
.

As if anything will silence those who "ask questions". I do agree however the school should not be demolished. I fail to see what the expense of demolition and building a new school does to bring back anyone who was killed. Yes, it removes a "reminder" of what happened, but what? The town is going to forget? The new school won't be a reminder? It seems an immature way of dealing with "feelings".
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
As if anything will silence those who "ask questions". I do agree however the school should not be demolished. I fail to see what the expense of demolition and building a new school does to bring back anyone who was killed. Yes, it removes a "reminder" of what happened, but what? The town is going to forget? The new school won't be a reminder? It seems an immature way of dealing with "feelings".
well too late its already been demolished. and thanks to Wolfgang Halbig and James Tracy all the anti-sandy hookers now know it would have had to be demolished anyway once renovations started due to new building codes.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Now the big smoking guns are these:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2457221/pg1?regp=bm9fMTM5MzI2OTgwOA==

1. The demolishing of the school to supposedly hide the evidence.
2. Josh Sugarmann (not seen his name come up at Metabunk), one of the most notable gun-control advocates, happens to be from Newtown. Implication? He helped orchestrate this mass murder.

I have a friend who thinks these two facts cause a great deal of suspicion. His conjecture? Those who favor gun-control aren't actually true pacifists who favor the non-violent approach, but are actually blood thirsty globalists who want to bring us into NWO submission.

I realize these crime scenes are incredibly sensitive. I just wish they'd have left the school alone. I understand why some wanted it demolished, but for the sake of silencing the conspiratorialists, I would have preferred it been left in tact.

Anyone know anything about Josh Sugarmann? I've done some internet searches but, aside from him getting his face in Huffington Post quite often, I can't find anything that would cause suspicion.

They are only doing what other schools have in demolishion. At Dunblane in 1996 they demolished the gym and made it into a garden. Why would that be suspect?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/dunblane-school-gym-reduced-to-rubble-1304404.html

That same year they demoloished the house of serial killer Fred West
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/fred-west-house-to-be-demolished-1356745.html

It is literally a case of " move along, nothing to see here."
 

Soulfly

Banned
Banned
As if anything will silence those who "ask questions". I do agree however the school should not be demolished. I fail to see what the expense of demolition and building a new school does to bring back anyone who was killed. Yes, it removes a "reminder" of what happened, but what? The town is going to forget? The new school won't be a reminder? It seems an immature way of dealing with "feelings".
Imagine being 7 years old sitting in that class room or using that bathroom.
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
As if anything will silence those who "ask questions". I do agree however the school should not be demolished. I fail to see what the expense of demolition and building a new school does to bring back anyone who was killed. Yes, it removes a "reminder" of what happened, but what? The town is going to forget? The new school won't be a reminder? It seems an immature way of dealing with "feelings".
I think it's mostly to lessen the trauma children will feel in coming years. Kids have a tendency to be "immature."
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
I think it's mostly to lessen the trauma children will feel in coming years. Kids have a tendency to be "immature."
It seems many of the teachers were very upset about the possibility of having to work in the school as well. several of the victims have younger siblings that don't need to walk the halls where their sibling was slaughtered.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Please don't just post Gish Gallop type lists and videos. New topics should go in new threads and follow posting guidelines - focussing on individual claims.
 

Tobes

Member
Mick, the reason why I asked you about the burden of proof on the welcome thread was because when debating the shooting with Sandy Hook conspiracy proponents, they claim that the burden of proof is on the state to show that Adam Lanza was the shooter, the same as if he had survived and put on trial.
I say that the burden of proof is on the conspiracy theorist to prove that what they say happened happened. This isn't the court of law. I'm not prosecuting the case for the state of Connecticut. They're the ones making the accusations that there was some elaborate plot involved thousands of people.
I tend to think Lanza was the shooter because to me, any alternate scenarios were far more complex and improbable.
Sorry if that's off topic. Just wanted to explain why I asked about that.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Mick, the reason why I asked you about the burden of proof on the welcome thread was because when debating the shooting with Sandy Hook conspiracy proponents, they claim that the burden of proof is on the state to show that Adam Lanza was the shooter, the same as if he had survived and put on trial.
I say that the burden of proof is on the conspiracy theorist to prove that what they say happened happened. This isn't the court of law. I'm not prosecuting the case for the state of Connecticut. They're the ones making the accusations that there was some elaborate plot involved thousands of people.
I tend to think Lanza was the shooter because to me, any alternate scenarios were far more complex and improbable.
Sorry if that's off topic. Just wanted to explain why I asked about that.
both are true. the state of connecticut is responsible to prove adam was the shooter. AND the only currently known involved individual. which they did. hence closing the case.

edit http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?A=4226&Q=537354

if the CTs don't believe this. it is up to them to prove it. or at least provide SOME evidence of their 'case'.
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
I was just wondering if it's pretty much done - I guess it is, but the constant nit-picking over details and "there's just so many unanswered questions, something just doesn't sit right man" has kind of got to me, I keep expecting there's still something else coming that will end it finally.
 

Tobes

Member
I was just wondering if it's pretty much done - I guess it is, but the constant nit-picking over details and "there's just so many unanswered questions, something just doesn't sit right man" has kind of got to me, I keep expecting there's still something else coming that will end it finally.

It will never end. The questions these people are asking have already been answered, over and over. They just don't like the answers.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
It will never end. The questions these people are asking have already been answered, over and over. They just don't like the answers.
in fairness some questions are just exempt from FOIA (Freedom of Information ACT). So you would have to go through the proper channels to challenge that decision.


http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/act/pa/2013PA-00311-R00SB-01149-PA.htm ( http://archive.is/IMvFt ) AN ACT LIMITING THE DISCLOSURE OF CERTAIN RECORDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES AND ESTABLISHING A TASK FORCE CONCERNING VICTIM PRIVACY UNDER THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT. june 2013


as far as what the FBI laws on their files are I don't really know. haven't looked into it.

shfb.png
http://cspsandyhookreport.ct.gov/
 
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Tobes

Member
in fairness some questions are just exempt from FOIA (Freedom of Information ACT). So you would have to go through the proper channels to challenge that decision.


http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/act/pa/2013PA-00311-R00SB-01149-PA.htm AN ACT LIMITING THE DISCLOSURE OF CERTAIN RECORDS OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES AND ESTABLISHING A TASK FORCE CONCERNING VICTIM PRIVACY UNDER THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT. june 2013


as far as what the FBI laws on their files are I don't really know. haven't looked into it.

View attachment 6308
http://cspsandyhookreport.ct.gov/


But I can guarantee you, when they get those questions answered, they won't accept those answers.
 

Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
MicK West- I saw your post about debunking Sandyhook Hoax by searching the death record for Dawn Hochsprungfound her, and essentially stated that settled it. Well, I did the same on several lists and cannot find Emilie Parker, birth or death. If you recall, this is the child who's father asked before an interview, "Should I read off the card?" He was then claimed to be an actor. Thoughts?
Actors don't read off cards.
 

Melbury's Brick

Senior Member.
i don't hear him say that at all. he doesn't even speak long enough before 'live' to say all that.
And I agree totally, Dierdre. I'm more making the point that his behaviour cannot even be construed as acting. If he had "read from a card" it would be further confirmation that he was NOT an actor. (My god, I feel ridiculous even alluding to such nonsense). Will acquiring answers to their banal, inane questions ever persuade these ghouls to leave the poor victims of Sandy Hook alone?
 

Kerensa

Closed Account
You counted 6 children as well? Most of the people in the video are NOT swat police or EMS personnel and even if Sandy Hook only had 456 students (according to your link), WHERE ARE THEY? What were all those people doing in the video? They sure as hell weren't there to pick up any children.

If its not a dummy, what is it?


This should be teacher Deb Pisani from room 1, who was shot in the foot. She waited until 11:15 a.m. for transport from the scene.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
This should be teacher Deb Pisani from room 1, who was shot in the foot. She waited until 11:15 a.m. for transport from the scene.
it is the teacher from room1 with the minor foot wound. But not due to lack of vehicles or "blocked roads"

Book2 #33855 Hospitals on call:Danbury, Waterbury, St. Marys (Wtrbry), Griffen (Derby), New Milford
**non-trauma will go to Griffen Hosp. in Derby
Book2 #250882 dispatch: hospital calls
Book 2 #64288 Ambulance unit A2 (Newtown): 1 female child to Danbury hospital
Book2 #260162 Ambulance log: lists the 14 ambulances on scene
Unit A2(Newtown): 1 juvenile female
Unit A3(Newtown): w/ 2 patients. Natalie Hammond and 1 juvenile male
Derby Ambulance: foot wound teacher to Bridgeport Hospital

Room 1 Teacher with foot wound (in red) to Bridgeport Hospital and related timeline:
9:35 ish her 911 call Book 4 #152887
"i felt a vibration" " i think ive been shot, my foot is bleeding"

9:59 TFC811 drives Natalie Hammond to triage station ( ie firehouse)Book #5672
10:02 Black SUV drives critically wounded male child to ambulance at firehouse Book3 #5672
10:05 children start evacuating through parking lot to firehouse Book3 #5672
10:06 Black SUV returns from firehouse (on dashcams) Book 4 #179629
10:07 escorts teacher (walks) with foot wound to triage Book 4 #79308
10:08 SH Fire arrives and stages in school parking lot Book4 #184096
2 members ESU arrive at school.

10:08 "Riverside or Dickenson?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc
"dickenson...have staties close down the road. we dont need anymore people in here" Book 4 #156887

10:15 swat arrives Book4 #79308
10:20 Southbury ambulance arrives at Firehouse Book2 #250882

10:24 get the quad out (of firehouse?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc
10:24 "we have a large group coming out" (of school...kids )https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc
10:25 "anybody driving 271utz we need you to move it" Book 4 #156887 calm voice on radio

10:27 this is still an active scene https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc
10:30 nonswat second sweep of school https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc
10:33 "keep it clear we dont want parents coming in..." calm voice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc

10:37 FBI arriving with UConn ER staff Book2 #250882
10:37 -10:38 hold all other ambulances..we have 7 at FireHousehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc

11:02 FBI tactical team second sweep with medics for casualties Book2 #250882

11:09
'affirmative, they need to bring a gurney into the triage area" (firehouse parking lot)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc
11:17 "yea we're using Griffin/Derby (Hospital; ie Derby ambulance Book2 #260162), i just confirmed it"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc
12:22 en route to Bridgeport Hospital. Book 2 # 250882 12:21 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkrxfYoQtc
interview Teacher room1 Book5 #51508
Derby Ambulance
: Book 2 #260162
laceration on instep of left foot Book 3 #-1-
12:45
being xrayed in Bridgeport Hosp. Book3 #248797
Officer from Troop G photographs her foot with and without the bandage.
4:30 pm surgery in Bridgeport Hosp. book3 #248797
 

Kerensa

Closed Account
If you read the full Newtown police, fire and EMS transcript, just before 10:30 a.m. you'll see the discussion about the road being blocked.

Name of spreadsheet is "Sandy Hook Timeline & Transcript."

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rrqout7dpwrb1gf/M8zfu9VJ7A

There is additional discussion in the CSP audio about the road being blocked, and dispatch calls out specific cruisers, by license plate, to try and get them moved.

The above transcript is complete for Newtown audio, but CSP audio is still being transcribed.

It's important to follow the conversation by agency (i.e. Newtown police conversation, vs. Newtown Fire/EMS, vs. CSP). It's certainly useful to see them side by side, too.

Bob Nute is the dispatcher for Newtown Police, Fire & EMS; however he is generally conversing with each component on different frequencies.

It was 410 who stated a patient needed transport. 410 was likely at the triage near the fenceline.

However, an ambulance was not brought in, likely because at first there were differences of opinion as to whether the scene was clear. CSP was calling for rigs; however Bob Nute at NPD dispatch seemed to be getting information scene was not safe enough yet. This is not uncommon at a scene involving multiple agencies and multiple threats. This difference of opinion took place at approximately 10 a.m. However within half an hour to an hour, as the scene was declared inactive and with children being led out the front door and parents and siblings standing in the parking lot, it was obviously safe enough for ambulances. There was no atmosphere of panic at that point, no conveyance of any sense that it was too dangerous for transport to come in.

So why didn't an ambulance--or at least the quadrunner--come to get Ms. Pisani from 410, as requested?

At least the partial answer seems clear in transmissions between Newtown EMS units 405 and 408:

10:24:05 AM Male (405): “[Timmy], I want you to set up the quad, to transport; we don't need the trailer, we can double up on the back. Bring that up here, and stage it at Sandy Hook school parking lot.”

10:24:15 AM Male (408): “Received, just the quad, no trailer.”

10:29:43 AM Male (408): “John, I can't get the quad up here – the road's blocked too much, [sorry].”

10:29:48 AM Male (405), intense: “Okay, so you're going to have to get it moved – there's going to be a lot of [activity] here.”

408 has gotten the quad out, but can't get it through the gridlock.

This isn't an indictment of Newtown's response. Things happen; we learn, and improve. The reunification area was too close to the scene, and incoming CSP especially blocked the road with cruisers; some of them seem to have done so deliberately, to help establish a perimeter, but possibly didn't return from the school building to move them quickly enough to avoid ingress/egress problems. It would be logical to suggest that what they saw inside the school may have taken their full attention.

If you read the growing number of post-Sandy Hook emergency services conference handouts, minutes, etc., you will see Sandy Hook cited as an example of why the parent staging area (reunification area) needs to be much farther away from the scene. I've seen this cited by multiple school security speakers now, again, specifically referencing Sandy Hook, and the problem Newtown experienced with 1) road blockage and 2) family reunification.

To deny Newtown experienced a problem with these two issues makes little sense, as multiple agencies have referred to it publicly.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
To deny Newtown experienced a problem with these two issues makes little sense, as multiple agencies have referred to it publicly.
regarding being capable of getting teacher1 to an ambulance and out to hospital AND the quad issue I am denying it. my security wont let me open your link. but since the rest that you quote is in Book 4 # 156882 I'm assuming we are reading the same thing. I am reading no such thing re: your allegations. my above post regarding what happened with teacher from room1 is correct.
another transcript of events is Book4 #184096.

re staging area: so what? Emergency response has nothing to do with parents being reunited with their kids. So what if it takes you a while to find your kids? what matters is they are safe/taken care of Book2 #6246 shows when each teacher signed out of firehouse; meaning her kids were all picked uped, statements taken etc.
they can try moving the staging area to Fairfield hills for the future but I assure you when parents hear 'active shooter' parents are still going to arrive at the school. just as they will in every other town/state.

the staties closed down Riverside to prevent more cars from coming in-true. was the road EVER blocked to emergency personnel coming in or out? -NO*. the transcripts show Emergency Response was getting in and out of the school area the whole time. Probably the dash cams show this too but I don't feel like looking at them now.
*well except for that 10 -15 mins they were told to block the road off while they got the children out.
 

Kerensa

Closed Account
regarding being capable of getting teacher1 to an ambulance and out to hospital AND the quad issue I am denying it. my security wont let me open your link. but since the rest that you quote is in Book 4 # 156882 I'm assuming we are reading the same thing. I am reading no such thing re: your allegations. my above post regarding what happened with teacher from room1 is correct.
another transcript of events is Book4 #184096.

re staging area: so what? Emergency response has nothing to do with parents being reunited with their kids. So what if it takes you a while to find your kids? what matters is they are safe/taken care of Book2 #6246 shows when each teacher signed out of firehouse; meaning her kids were all picked uped, statements taken etc.
they can try moving the staging area to Fairfield hills for the future but I assure you when parents hear 'active shooter' parents are still going to arrive at the school. just as they will in every other town/state.

the staties closed down Riverside to prevent more cars from coming in-true. was the road EVER blocked to emergency personnel coming in or out? -NO*. the transcripts show Emergency Response was getting in and out of the school area the whole time. Probably the dash cams show this too but I don't feel like looking at them now.
*well except for that 10 -15 mins they were told to block the road off while they got the children out.

Actually in this specific case, emergency response had very much to do with reunification, because it was parents' vehicles, in part, blocking the roads:

"At Sandy Hook, the school's reunification area was two blocks from the school, which caused incredible vehicle congestion."

http://web3.esd112.org/docs/default-source/risk-management-matters/spring-2013.pdf?sfvrsn=0

But aside from that, emergency response to any mass incident involving children is often graded partly according how well and smoothly family reunification proceeded. This is because fortunately, in this day and age, emergency services agencies take into account not only the physical well-being of the survivors, but their mental well-being as well, including the mental well-being of their parents. A well-oiled reunification plan also reduces secondary issues threatening community safety, of course to include road congestion--which, in a disaster, can prove deadly.

FEMA has an entire manual devoted to the importance of reunification, "Post-Disaster Reunification of Children: A Nationwide Approach."

"When parents are familiar with the emergency plans of their children’s temporary care providers, including the reunification
components, they are more likely to follow evacuation and shelter-in-place orders, making everyone safer. Reunifying unaccompanied minors and separated or missing children with their parents or legal guardians in the aftermath of a disaster is a priority."

http://nationalmasscarestrategy.fil...ication-of-children-a-nationwide-approach.pdf

With all due respect, citing radio transmissions which discuss road blockage is not making an allegation. It is a simple statement of fact that road blockage was a problem at Sandy Hook, unless you are suggesting that Newtown EMS were somehow lying, or making fraudulent radio transmissions during the emergency response, which I certainly don't believe is the case.

Book 4, 156882 is a transcription of CT State Police transmissions; while CSP dispatchers do also reference road blockage (and read license plates over the air), the discussion about the quad is in the Newtown Fire/EMS transmissions.

If there's a better way to provide the transcript and audio, I'd be happy to oblige. Maybe SoundCloud? Unfortunately that will compress the audio further, but it will still be intelligible, in my experience. It is important for those interested to be able to review the original transmissions, imo.

Incidentally, the Book 4, 156882 CSP transcription goes only as far as 10:34 a.m.; Deb Pisani had not yet been extracted from the scene, and it would be almost three more hours before additional staff were located hiding in the school. The CSP transmission regarding cruisers blocking the road is made at 11:36 a.m.:

11:36:47
Fairfield Co. Police Fire & EMS -
Male: "Troopers at the scene, 9...756-UTZ...756-UTZ, 906-UTZ, if you could move your vehicles, we need emergency access into the building."

Book 4, 184096 (Sedensky's timeline of selected events) is helpful as an overview, but omits many individual transmissions. It includes neither the NPD nor CSP transmissions regarding blocked roads.

You'll note on the teacher sign-out sheet, Book 2, 6246, that a number of teachers left as late as 3:30 p.m., and that others have questions marks by their sign-out time. I do believe in fact that it is possible not all children were accounted for until this time, because police audio indicates continuing efforts to locate children into the afternoon.

To my knowledge Riverside was never closed down during this time frame; many people were coming and going, to include media who filmed late into the night across the road from the fire station. At times, though, especially early into the response, it was significantly congested and possibly blocked for lengths of time. The "gridlock" references refer to Dickenson, hower, as the fire station's quad was not affected by Riverside blockage, but was affected by Dickenson blockage.
 
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Kerensa

Closed Account
Texas State University professor Pete Blair, one of several professionals working to develop the US DOJ's Civilian Response to Active Shooter Events (CRASE) training, stated in February, 2014:

“At Sandy Hook, they had planned as well as they possibly could, and they were still finding children scattered around the neighborhood a couple of hours later, because they had the chance to run away from the school, and they did,” Blair says. “This training will help administrators learn to plan for multiple eventualities.”

http://schoolsafetyinfo.org/crase.html

Not an indictment, but a simple statement of fact, made so that problems can be addressed.

At this point I really must ask you, Deirdre, what possible good can come of making public statements saying the road was not blocked and that there was no problem finding children? How is this in any way helpful? Heaven forbid someone should believe this was the case, and miss an opportunity to make a necessary change in their own school's emergency response plan. I believe in free speech and you certainly have every right to say these things, but woman-to-woman (mom to mom?) I'm just asking you why you feel compelled to.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
why? that's what happened. its not strange or suspicious.
Yeah, but it's misleading. You ask yourself the question 'was the road EVER blocked' and answer NO, very definitive statements, but then you bring up an exception, saying basically 'ok well for 10-15 minutes it was blocked...' You contradict yourself by adding that exception.

It's like if I said
"Deirdre has NEVER told the truth before*"

*except the times Deirdre told the truth

It's just misleading >_>
But I guess I'm drifting off topic. Sorry folks.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Yeah, but it's misleading. You ask yourself the question 'was the road EVER blocked' and answer NO, very definitive statements, but then you bring up an exception, saying basically 'ok well for 10-15 minutes it was blocked...' You contradict yourself by adding that exception.

It's like if I said
"Deirdre has NEVER told the truth before*"

*except the times Deirdre told the truth

It's just misleading >_>
But I guess I'm drifting off topic. Sorry folks.

because Keneshas assertion in the other thread she cant access now, is that the parents/emergency vehicles et al caused a road blockage that was dangerous. this isn't true. the staties were told to block off the driveway (Dickenson), just outside the parking area, while the children were evacuating the school. ie walking across the parkinglot/driveway area. They didn't want parents running in and moving kids around. (transcripts)

"Road congestion" preventing ambulances from getting injured parties out, is a lot different than the staties purposefully blocking the road to ease evacuation.

She's also alleging the teacher from room1 didn't leave until 11:15 BECAUSE the road was blocked. which is also false.
If the police close down the road I don't consider that "a blocked road", it is a road block- a driveway block actually. 2 very different things.

and yes, more fluid reunification might be nice but in a situation such as this it is a trivial thing to be focusing on. I don't hear any SH Parents complaining about it.
IF they did find children later it was only because the parents were grabbing (uninjured) kids too fast. Other than that ONE classroom, children did not scatter out of the school unattended.

Because, Kenesha, you say you're worried about improving future plans, which everyone wants, but that's not at all what your words are implying. which is why you keep insisting on making false statements like this
To my knowledge Riverside was never closed down during this time frame; many people were coming and going, to include media who filmed late into the night across the road from the fire station. At times, though, especially early into the response, it was significantly congested and possibly blocked for lengths of time.

If you cant accept the facts to base your improvement of future evacuation suggestions on, that's your choice. I will make my suggestions based on what actually occurred. I apologize if I am explaining the situations to you in an unclear way.
 

Kerensa

Closed Account
because Keneshas assertion in the other thread she cant access now, is that the parents/emergency vehicles et al caused a road blockage that was dangerous. this isn't true. the staties were told to block off the driveway (Dickenson), just outside the parking area, while the children were evacuating the school. ie walking across the parkinglot/driveway area. They didn't want parents running in and moving kids around. (transcripts)

"Road congestion" preventing ambulances from getting injured parties out, is a lot different than the staties purposefully blocking the road to ease evacuation.

She's also alleging the teacher from room1 didn't leave until 11:15 BECAUSE the road was blocked. which is also false.
If the police close down the road I don't consider that "a blocked road", it is a road block- a driveway block actually. 2 very different things.

and yes, more fluid reunification might be nice but in a situation such as this it is a trivial thing to be focusing on. I don't hear any SH Parents complaining about it.
IF they did find children later it was only because the parents were grabbing (uninjured) kids too fast. Other than that ONE classroom, children did not scatter out of the school unattended.

Because, Kenesha, you say you're worried about improving future plans, which everyone wants, but that's not at all what your words are implying. which is why you keep insisting on making false statements like this

If you cant accept the facts to base your improvement of future evacuation suggestions on, that's your choice. I will make my suggestions based on what actually occurred. I apologize if I am explaining the situations to you in an unclear way.

What do you mean by the thread I can't access (not being facetious--genuine question).

The children you're referring to, from Room 10 (Soto's room) were found within the hour. They are not the same children it took multiple hours to find.

The road was gridlocked, and the reunification is not trivial; both are being cited, repeatedly, and publicly, by multiple agencies, as serious problems with the Sandy Hook response.

You are insisting neither was a problem, much less a serious problem. And that is simply untrue. Both were serious problems.

Parents and state cruisers clogged Dickenson. Several cruisers were called to over the air specifically, by license plate, because in the dispatcher's words, these cruisers were blocking emergency access to the school. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

At 10:29 Newtown EMS requests the quad for transport. There is only one patient to transport: Deb Pisani. All other patients left at or before 10 a.m. The reply: They can't get the quad through for transport, because the road's blocked too much. Their words, not mine.

Is there a fifth injured victim in need of transport that you're aware of (other than Olivia Engel, Ben Wheeler, Natalie Hammond, and Deb Pisani)?

CSP Sgt. Cario and Trooper Patrick Dragon did indeed say they brought out multiple children from Room 8, which would mean five wounded overall, minimum.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
You are insisting neither was a problem, much less a serious problem
I don't consider them (the actual Facts) serious problems no. and from the tone of the audio neither did anyone else.
I'm debunking your claims, plain and simple. Your interpretation of events is simply that, your interpretation.
 

Kerensa

Closed Account
I don't consider them (the actual Facts) serious problems no. and from the tone of the audio neither did anyone else.
I'm debunking your claims, plain and simple. Your interpretation of events is simply that, your interpretation.

No, it is the interpretation of multiple agencies whose job it is to analyze the emergency response to the Sandy Hook School shooting.

Their analysis is clear, and unequivocal: road blockage, and reunification, were serious and interrelated problems.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
No, it is the interpretation of multiple agencies whose job it is to analyze the emergency response to the Sandy Hook School shooting.

Their analysis is clear, and unequivocal: road blockage, and reunification, were serious and interrelated problems.

Could you quote the (multiple) analysis that says this?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
because Keneshas assertion in the other thread she cant access now, is that the parents/emergency vehicles et al caused a road blockage that was dangerous.

And all you.could link me to was this quote:
Just that I think it's premature to say Life Star was not called due to a decision made that ground ambulances were the best and only choice.

I believe that the sheer number of casualties, unknowns regarding survivors, nature of potential injuries (obviously life-threatening in the known victims), road blockage, and question of casualties overwhelming Danbury (i.e. patients possibly needing to be flown elsewhere) make an air ambulance deployment expected.

I believe that the three air ambulances standing by at Murrysville were there not only for known patients, but potential patients. When you have rapidly-increasing victims list, with a high number of overall victims, the decision to have choppers standby becomes not only justified but expected--or certainly not unexpected.

Newtown was lucky (or unlucky, sadly) that choppers weren't needed, but given the number of survivors not accounted for for hours, who could have been seriously injured judging by the nature of the deceaseds' wounds, I think a good case could be made that failing to have choppers on standby was bad policy (if in fact such a decision was even made).

The problem is that we really don't know what decision, if any, was made, who made it, or how they made it. All we know is that in far less serious cases in CT, Life Star has been called.

I think you may the one having problems with interpretation Deirdre o_O
They were referring to the expectation of there being an air ambulance used. Mick said in the other thread it was something like 14 minutes for an air helicopter and also about 14 minutes for an ambulance. The calculation for the ambulance of course didn't bother to take into account traffic, which is to be expected at that hour and an increased amount given the recent circumstances (parents and police scrambling to the scene.)
 
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