Debunked: Sandy Hook Hoax (OP includes quick links )

[Josh Heuer]

Maybe when they found Lanza dead, with the guns, they knew they didn't have to look for the killer any longer and were just checking rooms by looking into them, and not looking in closets?

Not likely...the point I'm making is that these sweeps are thorough...so thorough that they did it 4 times. Here's what Wikipedia describes:

////
Newtown police dispatch first requested officers on the scene at 9:35 am[60]Connecticut State Police received the first call at 9:41 am,[50] and with Newtown police, quickly mobilized local police dog andpolice tactical units, a bomb squad, and a state police helicopter.[69]

Police locked down the school and began evacuating the survivors room by room, escorting groups of students and adults away from the school. They swept the school for additional shooters at least four times. No shots were fired by the authorities.[70]According to a transcript of police radio traffic, Lanza committed suicide within fifteen minutes of the first 9-1-1 emergency call being received.[3]
////

They were specifically searching for a shooter (as they should, since they have no idea what went down yet). They were also escorting children and adults out.

Now, first off, schools are not exactly mazes. Especially not this one, I've seen the layout and it's not complicated in any way. I trust the trained SWAT/police team(s) that went through 4 times did a thorough job; that's what they're trained to do. They were searching for a shooter as well as escorting folks out.
I still don't see how or why they continually skipped this closet.

Also, in response to Cairenn's last reply, which was:
"They would have most likely been careful with any place a child might have been hidden. Guys in SWAT gear would easily terrify a child that was hiding."

So they're worried about terrifying a child? With a possible shooter in the building, and children still possibly hidden, they will avoid locked doors because they don't want to scare children? So then maybe they shouldn't have been in there at all. I mean, part of the reason they were in there was to evacuate the building of children and adults.

 

[Cairenn]

They evacuate children and COUNT them. DUH.

 

[Josh Heuer]

They evacuate children and COUNT them. DUH.

But they don't keep any track of adults?
I would think it would be easier to keep track of adults, since there were much fewer.

And besides, where'd you get that information from? How do you know they count children?

 

[MikeC]

Maybe from experience with our own children because that is what they did at my kids school for emergency drills and also 1 case where there was actually someone armed nearby.

 

[Josh Heuer]

They evacuate children and COUNT them. DUH.

Also, remember the 6 or so kids that ended up at Gene Rosen's? I bet they weren't counted. More reasons to get in that closet.

And MikeC:
"Maybe from experience with our own children because that is what they did at my kids school for emergency drills and also 1 case where there was actually someone armed nearby."

And I'm not sure what kind of drills you guys run, involving SWAT teams. My schools surely never had any such drills. We did have multiple drills, including lockdowns and evacuations. Nothing like a SWAT team coming through though.

 

[David Fraser]

But they don't keep any track of adults?
I would think it would be easier to keep track of adults, since there were much fewer.

And besides, where'd you get that information from? How do you know they count children?

Not likely...the point I'm making is that these sweeps are thorough...so thorough that they did it 4 times. Here's what Wikipedia describes:

////
Newtown police dispatch first requested officers on the scene at 9:35 am[60]Connecticut State Police received the first call at 9:41 am,[50] and with Newtown police, quickly mobilized local police dog andpolice tactical units, a bomb squad, and a state police helicopter.[69]

Police locked down the school and began evacuating the survivors room by room, escorting groups of students and adults away from the school. They swept the school for additional shooters at least four times. No shots were fired by the authorities.[70]According to a transcript of police radio traffic, Lanza committed suicide within fifteen minutes of the first 9-1-1 emergency call being received.[3]
////

They were specifically searching for a shooter (as they should, since they have no idea what went down yet). They were also escorting children and adults out.

Now, first off, schools are not exactly mazes. Especially not this one, I've seen the layout and it's not complicated in any way. I trust the trained SWAT/police team(s) that went through 4 times did a thorough job; that's what they're trained to do. They were searching for a shooter as well as escorting folks out.

Your Wiki link states at least 4 times and does not have a reference to support it. "At least" is not a phrase that I associate with a reliable comment. So where the searches for shooters? As more information is made available the purpose of the searches will change. When searching for survivors, or dead people, one would expect survivors to be forthcoming. But the main point at the end of the day is human infallibility. Why would not something get missed? How many times would officers have been in situations like this? Training does not cover every eventuality and quite often things do get missed. That's what experience is about.

You claim that you accept the shootings happened yet query points and testimony like this. There has to be a point to that. What reason do you think that this particular incident did not happen as described?

 

[Josh Heuer]

Man, you guys really don't read my posts, do you?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again in bold letters so it stands out better.

I believe the official narrative happened. However, I see how conspiracy theorists tend to use misinformation and/or inexplicable events such as this to fuel their conspiracies, and I'm simply looking for answers to be able to dispel those conspiracies. You know, debunk, like what you guys do.

I'm not getting at anything conspiracy related with this particular instance; in fact I'm trying to do the opposite. Even IF these two ladies were lying for whatever reason, it doesn't mean some false flag operation occurred or anything like that, so I'm just trying to learn what I can from this situation about these types of incidents.
Btw, the whole 'well Wikipedia didn't reference a source on them sweeping, and also it says 'at least' '

Ok, but watch what Lt Paul Vance has to say..



Maybe they didn't do 4 searches (I'm still trying to find a source other than Wikipedia on that, I'll post it when I find it. I think lt vance himself said it... But 'at least' would be taken to mean 4 or more, any way you look at it)
But he does say the point was to evacuate, and search every door, crack, crevice, nook, cranny, etc.
It just doesn't fit with the ladies' story.

 

[David Fraser]

So what is the time frame from the start of the incident to the press conference? Had the women been found? All anyone can make is assumptions as we are unable to interrogate the witnesses but all I can think of is simple human error.

My issue does stand at the need to debunk it. What is it's place in the conspiracy? Is it just a case of people looking for faults in eyewitness testimony when people are known for being fallible?

 

[Oxymoron]

With a possible shooter/shooters on the loose? How is that thorough? There must have been multiple locked doors. Did they simply skip them all?
Or did they just assume 'well this is a storage closet, no shooters would hide in here...'

Of course. As Cairenn said; 'They have better things to do' and 'Well there may have been kids in there and you wouldn't want them frightened would you?'

 

[Mick West]

Of course. As Cairenn said; 'They have better things to do' and 'Well there may have been kids in there and you wouldn't want them frightened would you?'

Clearly that's a ridiculous suggestion. The most likely thing is that the door was simply overlooked (maybe because it looked like locked closed?), and the women inside were so terrified that they never attempted to open it. It does seem like the door should have been checked though - but it's more of a procedural issue than anything. We don't really know exactly what happened.

 

[deirdre]

the state police report may prove me wrong but I think Cox lost her mind. Barbara who was also allegedly in the closet too hasn't said a word about it that I've ever heard. Cox didn't call 911 "we called 911", Barbara did. I realize it was an extremely scary situation and the body and mind goes into shock but even when the bullets ended the nurse made no attempt to see to the wounded children. that's understandable but messed up. What shooter hangs out for 4 hours or you don't hear a hostage negotiator in that time? I don't believe they were in there for 4 hours or the state police overlooked then 4x. Those men were pretty serious at the time.

Either way I was hit by a drunk driver once on a road I drive everyday (I thought I was toast but by some miracle he just clipped me hard), it was surprising how my mind wouldn't work correctly. my motor skills were fine and i was able to go through the proper functions. But even days later when I logically Knew what the sequence of events and positioning must have been, I still 'remembered' the false/incorrect stuff I couldn't recall clearly that I told the police. fear/shock is a strange thing.

 

[Efftup]

well OK, Reading the ACTUAL links to the wikipedia article is even more confusing.

First Cox says she hid under the desk, someone came in (office door not locked) then Halstead came in hid under desk, called 911 and then they hid in the closet. but NO MENTION of anything actually being locked.

then the paragraph that mentions sweeps of the school: The Newtown police and Connecticut State Police mobilized local police dog and police tactical units, a bomb squad, and a state police helicopter.[74] Police locked down the school and began evacuating the survivors room by room, escorting groups of students and adults away from the school. They swept the school for additional shooters at least four times.

has one link in it which actually mentions NOTHING that is written in the paragraph. it;s mostly an article about people wanting more stringent gun control. It mentions Lanza killing his mother, shooting a window to gain access shooting people and killing himself when the police were nearby. there is no mention in the article of the bomb squad, dogs, chopper OR sweeps of the school.

if this is the ONLY place where this is mentioned, it might be erroneous, maybe there WERE no sweeps.

I'm not sure this helps anyone at all here.

 

[deirdre]

well OK, Reading the ACTUAL links to the wikipedia article is even more confusing.


if this is the ONLY place where this is mentioned, it might be erroneous, maybe there WERE no sweeps.

I'm not sure this helps anyone at all here.

the Hartford courant is a newpaper, they delete articles all the time. Im sure the Wikipedia writer cant check every reference link every week.

 

[JRBids]

well OK, Reading the ACTUAL links to the wikipedia article is even more confusing.

First Cox says she hid under the desk, someone came in (office door not locked) then Halstead came in hid under desk, called 911 and then they hid in the closet. but NO MENTION of anything actually being locked.

then the paragraph that mentions sweeps of the school: The Newtown police and Connecticut State Police mobilized local police dog and police tactical units, a bomb squad, and a state police helicopter.[74] Police locked down the school and began evacuating the survivors room by room, escorting groups of students and adults away from the school. They swept the school for additional shooters at least four times.

has one link in it which actually mentions NOTHING that is written in the paragraph. it;s mostly an article about people wanting more stringent gun control. It mentions Lanza killing his mother, shooting a window to gain access shooting people and killing himself when the police were nearby. there is no mention in the article of the bomb squad, dogs, chopper OR sweeps of the school.

if this is the ONLY place where this is mentioned, it might be erroneous, maybe there WERE no sweeps.

I'm not sure this helps anyone at all here.

It doesn't help me because i don't understand whay it is you think is perplexing.

 

[Efftup]

Well They call me Josh was saying he basically thought everything went down the way the officials and news reported. But wanted to know about 4 police sweeps missing these women hiding in the closet.

As there doesn't appear to be a proper link to confirm that there actually WERE any sweeps, there should be no issue to worry about, except that the Conspiracy buffs will then query WHY no sweeps were done.
But everyone else was having an in depth discussion about locked doors and I was wondering why seeing as how there was no mention of anyone locking anything in the actual articles they were commenting on.

 

[Josh Heuer]

Well They call me Josh was saying he basically thought everything went down the way the officials and news reported. But wanted to know about 4 police sweeps missing these women hiding in the closet.

As there doesn't appear to be a proper link to confirm that there actually WERE any sweeps, there should be no issue to worry about, except that the Conspiracy buffs will then query WHY no sweeps were done.
But everyone else was having an in depth discussion about locked doors and I was wondering why seeing as how there was no mention of anyone locking anything in the actual articles they were commenting on.

The sweeps happened; this was stated directly by Lt. Paul Vance himself in a conference just hours after the shooting. There's video of him saying it flat out.

 

[deirdre]

the sweeps are confirmed on the police scanner thing too.
11:30 "has the school been cleared?" " school checked 3x over and theyre doing a 4th. "

the main office door wasn't locked. but at the back of the main office is the door to the Nurses office. the nurses office was locked. its in the police report and other places online still.

 

[Josh Heuer]

the sweeps are confirmed on the police scanner thing too.
11:30 "has the school been cleared?" " school checked 3x over and theyre doing a 4th. "

the main office door wasn't locked. but at the back of the main office is the door to the Nurses office. the nurses office was locked. its in the police report and other places online still.

Right. And the nurse herself said in an interview she left the closet at 1:15.
Like I said, this is the one part of the story that doesn't add up.

 

[Landru]

Right. And the nurse herself said in an interview she left the closet at 1:15.
Like I said, this is the one part of the story that doesn't add up.

Doesn't add up to what? This has been discussed before. The sweeps missed them.

 

[Josh Heuer]

Doesn't add up to what? This has been discussed before. The sweeps missed them.

I get it, you're sticking with that.
That's not an explanation to anything.

 

[Landru]

I get it, you're sticking with that.
That's not an explanation to anything.

Yes because I've heard nothing to counter the story that has emerged. Do you have a theory or are you just asking questions?

 

[Josh Heuer]

Yes because I've heard nothing to counter the story that has emerged. Do you have a theory or are you just asking questions?

I'm not asking questions.
I'm stating facts.
The police searched every crevice, nook, and cranny, multiple times, per Vance's spoken words.
Yet they continually missed the two ladies in the closet, who were in there for nearly four hours, per the nurse's spoken words.

 

[Landru]

I'm not asking questions.
I'm stating facts.
The police searched every crevice, nook, and cranny, multiple times, per Vance's spoken words.
Yet they continually missed the two ladies in the closet, who were in there for nearly four hours, per the nurse's spoken words.

They were mistaken otherwise they would have found them.

 

[Josh Heuer]

They were mistaken otherwise they would have found them.

Is that your theory?

 

[Landru]

Is that your theory?

Yes, what's yours?

 

[Josh Heuer]

Yes, what's yours?

Well for starters, your theory is wrong. The ladies were escorted out by police. But it was after the supposed sweeps happened. In fact, it took place during the middle of the first press conference. (The first scheduled press conference was at 12:30, and this is verified in video).
Someone is making up stories.
It's not me.

 

[Landru]

Well for starters, your theory is wrong. The ladies were escorted out by police. But it was after the supposed sweeps happened. In fact, it took place during the middle of the first press conference. (The first scheduled press conference was at 12:30, and this is verified in video).
Someone is making up stories.
It's not me.

I said the sweeps missed them. This has been discussed before. Dead horse anyone.

 

[Josh Heuer]

I said the sweeps missed them. This has been discussed before. Dead horse anyone.

No, you said 'they were mistaken' in reference to the ladies. Don't change your story.

 

[Landru]

No, you said 'they were mistaken' in reference to the ladies. Don't change your story.

Really, where did I say that? I was referring to your quote that they searched every crevice, nook and cranny. My theory is they were mistaken and their search was not as thorough as they thought. Once again, do you have a point?

 

[Josh Heuer]

Really, where did I say that? I was referring to your quote that they searched every crevice, nook and cranny. My theory is they were mistaken and their search was not as thorough as they thought. Once again, do you have a point?

Well, your vagueness was a bit misleading. Instead of using 'they' and 'them' multiple times, perhaps it's best to specify who 'they' or 'them' are referring to, so as to not bring about this confusion.
But, hopefully the police did a solid investigation, if they couldn't even do a simple search after multiple tries as you seem to think.

 

[deirdre]

Well, your vagueness was a bit misleading. Instead of using 'they' and 'them' multiple times, perhaps it's best to specify who 'they' or 'them' are referring to, so as to not bring about this confusion.
But, hopefully the police did a solid investigation, if they couldn't even do a simple search after multiple tries as you seem to think.

how do you know exactly when they were escorted out?

I do believe its possible swat missed them since except the bathrooms and nurses office ALL the interior doors in the school only locked from the outside with a key. So a shooter couldnt lock himself in any other room, someone else would have to lock him in.

You can see into the nurses office and with all the radios, swat tromping around on the roof, police shouting orders..if I were a cop I would assume if there was anyone in there they would have answered my calls just like all the teachers did.

But within 4 hours of interviews and going through the paperwork in the office the police had a pretty good idea of who they were missing or not. how come no one (staff) mentioned "where's nurse cox and Barbara?" not saying it didn't happen as cox says but it seems a bit strange to me.

 

[Josh Heuer]

how do you know exactly when they were escorted out?

I do believe its possible swat missed them since except the bathrooms and nurses office ALL the interior doors in the school only locked from the outside with a key. So a shooter couldnt lock himself in any other room, someone else would have to lock him in.

You can see into the nurses office and with all the radios, swat tromping around on the roof, police shouting orders..if I were a cop I would assume if there was anyone in there they would have answered my calls just like all the teachers did.

But within 4 hours of interviews and going through the paperwork in the office the police had a pretty good idea of who they were missing or not. how come no one (staff) mentioned "where's nurse cox and Barbara?" not saying it didn't happen as cox says but it seems a bit strange to me.

Don't forget, Barbara's husband worked at the fire station up the road everyone was escorted to, and he was there that day. He seemed in no hurry to find his wife. (Edit: ex-wife? Let me check that)
But the nurse says in an interview she was escorted out about 1:15. Apparently someone got wind of the two ladies still being unaccounted for by that point.

 

[JRBids]

No, you said 'they were mistaken' in reference to the ladies. Don't change your story.

What is your story? You do not believe there were 3 sweeps? Is that it? Do you think they just SAID there were 3 sweeps? The women were not in the closet? WHat? What? What do you think happened? Or are you just saying the 'official' story smells?

 

[deirdre]

But the nurse says in an interview she was escorted out about 1:15.

well that's at least a bit more believable. that's only 3.5 hours and i'm sure the cops interviewed them first before being escorted out. the mind does short circuit a bit in extreme stress. anyway the state police will release their files at some point.

 

[deirdre]

news just said the state police file to be released tomorrow.

 

[hopstoopid]

Hi Mike,
This looks like an interesting site,I hope i can be engaged in some intelligent discussion on here as there are some interesting topics .I'm sure i won't be a quantity poster, but i will hope to add something that hasn't been thought of, or at least inject something useful. I basically agree with the debunked theories here. it seems that there are many stories in this sandy hook tragedy, and it makes finding out the truth difficult. I've read just about everything I could in the last week. But I still have questions that I haven't(yet) found the answers to myself. I don't seem to agree with some of the things you post, but that's fine with me, I'm here to learn as well as discuss.

Not sure where to put this post, so I'll leave it up to you. Break it up into separate threads, or put it in a general thread. I don't care. I just want some kind of discussion to these questions.

This Sandy Hook thing has a life all of its own.All these people/families in SH should be respected and treated as they seem to want to be treated. If they have something to say I would love to hear it,but if they want their privacy I fully support that. The Police/Responders/officials involved/FBI/reporters are fair game , and they should answer any and all questions the public has on the issue of inconsistencies in reporting and public responses, and should be open and truthful as to the suspects, pictures, 911 tapes, video(it doesn't need to be graphic or personal)

i have a few questions and that as far as i can tell haven't been brought up on here, or haven't been addressed in general. I've just posted these on another bloggers comments, so any info would be shared here as well. I'm not in any way implying anything by asking these questions. I honestly am just looking for answers since I'm curious, and haven't been bright enough find these, as of yet. for myself. I am also going to continue to look into these questions and will bring up my finding on here.

The most important question that has been overlooked at this point is this. How did the nurse remain in the closet with at least one other person until 1:15?This according to her tv interview, but according to Vance" we checked every nook and cranny of that building." also on live 911 feed they checked 3x already and going for a 4th. @11:31:36 on 911 tape

At 9:42:20 of police tape it says "shots in front of the school" also 3 cars in front of school had bullet holes http://www.courant.com/news/connect...yhook-lanza-earplugs-20130106,0,2370630.story

any other thoughts about these shots outside?

I'm also very interested in all of those helicopter videos.Is there any timestamp on any of the videos. ? is there anyway to see the entire footage from these? they have video at night looking at the gun in the trunk. so i'm guessing at least some of these were up all day long.I would love to see, for example, the video of the men running into the woods, without editing. I would like to see the very beginning. I don't think you ever say this but there are 4 running. one shadow is seen coming out from behind the building. then he can be seen a little later.bottom left . it seems the 1st 2 split up and the "3rd" one is chasing the 1st one. 4th possibly the 2nd. then we get a cut there. and then the man is apparently apprehended. hard to tell. is there a video out there without a cut? i can't find it. again a timestamp would be great here.

Was Chris Manfredonia wearing camo pants and black vest? was it Cm that was running in the woods?( I don't think so) if so why? who was caught? was there someone else? why didnt any parent who was apparently there recognize him.? who is the off-duty tactical person. ? why wasn't he questioned? unless he was supposed to be there? is there also someone who was chopping wood? can't the police answer these questions? only one article posted about this CM incident, and its sited as proof.

Is the interview with Roy Low at 1:21 pm when the time says, or was it pre-recorded? if its live, who was in the police car this late in the day?

why does the 911 tape say they found "long rifles AND shotguns" even if he isn't using plural, and it would be unusual to do that. that is a minimum of 2!!! "long" guns. not 1 as Vance has reported (throw him in jail, his own rules!!)

Who was in the maroon/purple van that had its windows shot out? They were still looking for possible suspects at 11am, did they catch these people?Iis it this van that has people possibly in masks? or dressed like a nun? 11:09:55, 11;17:00, its says offc 1089 is posting for purple van.
Why does operator say we are getting info about this purple van? How come we don't hear this on the police chatter? We can hear a parking violation warning for Rodia(supposedly) in Greenwich but not info from Danbury police on possible suspect in biggest school shooting ever! ? Was this relayed on a 911call? how can we find that out?
Are they going to release the 911 calls from the school? Sounds like operator first says "she" and later says "he still believes he hears shooting" is this a mistake? or multiple callers? how many people called 911? any neighbors hear 100+shots and call?


How did Adam Lanza get in officially? Did he shoot out the windows?
Conn gov said " "He penetrated the building by literally shooting an entrance into the building." doesnt mention windows(not proof or disproof) then cops on scene in 911 tapes say" broken glass not sure why" Newtown Police Chief Michael Kehoe says he went around back and broke through the windows". first i heard of them starting in the back of the school. whys that?

Probably had a few more, but this is kind of' long already and has many points I think are worthy of discussion.I'm already looking for answers for all of these questions and I think it would help if we can all work together on these questions and others that come up as this continues to develop. I don't think any of these are "conspiracy" questions and deserve to be looked at.(if they have already, i apologize for not being smart enough to find it)

thanks for listening -HS

 

[Chuck]

Now the big smoking guns are these:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2457221/pg1?regp=bm9fMTM5MzI2OTgwOA==

1. The demolishing of the school to supposedly hide the evidence.
2. Josh Sugarmann (not seen his name come up at Metabunk), one of the most notable gun-control advocates, happens to be from Newtown. Implication? He helped orchestrate this mass murder.

I have a friend who thinks these two facts cause a great deal of suspicion. His conjecture? Those who favor gun-control aren't actually true pacifists who favor the non-violent approach, but are actually blood thirsty globalists who want to bring us into NWO submission.

I realize these crime scenes are incredibly sensitive. I just wish they'd have left the school alone. I understand why some wanted it demolished, but for the sake of silencing the conspiratorialists, I would have preferred it been left in tact.

Anyone know anything about Josh Sugarmann? I've done some internet searches but, aside from him getting his face in Huffington Post quite often, I can't find anything that would cause suspicion.

 

[Soulfly]

Now the big smoking guns are these:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2457221/pg1?regp=bm9fMTM5MzI2OTgwOA==
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2457221/pg1?regp=bm9fMTM5MzI2OTgwOA==
1. The demolishing of the school to supposedly hide the evidence.
2. Josh Sugarmann (not seen his name come up at Metabunk), one of the most notable gun-control advocates, happens to be from Newtown. Implication? He helped orchestrate this mass murder.

I have a friend who thinks these two facts cause a great deal of suspicion. His conjecture? Those who favor gun-control aren't actually true pacifists who favor the non-violent approach, but are actually blood thirsty globalists who want to bring us into NWO submission.

I realize these crime scenes are incredibly sensitive. I just wish they'd have left the school alone. I understand why some wanted it demolished, but for the sake of silencing the conspiratorialists, I would have preferred it been left in tact.

Anyone know anything about Josh Sugarmann? I've done some internet searches but, aside from him getting his face in Huffington Post quite often, I can't find anything that would cause suspicion.

What does leaving the school up accomplish? Do believers think they would be allowed to go inside the school and look around? A place to protest?

 

[Pete Tar]

What would have satisfied the hoax believers? Guided tours of the classrooms, pointing out the bullet holes?

They don't deserve to be satisfied. They can live and die without having their 'questions' answered as far as I'm concerned, which of course they will have to.

 

[deirdre]

I realize these crime scenes are incredibly sensitive. I just wish they'd have left the school alone. I understand why some wanted it demolished, but for the sake of silencing the conspiratorialists, I would have preferred it been left in tact.

I have a sneaking suspicion appeasing conspiratorialists (I like that term if I can ever remember it) isn't a high priority.