Debunked: DHS orders 450 million .40 caliber bullets for use in America

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George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
you didn't bother to actually read and understand my post, did you??!!:rolleyes:

There is no suggestion of anyone overstepping any boundaries or mandate - except in the feverish imaginations of people who can make money out of inventuing such hoaxes, and the poor fools who believe them.



no - it is nothing of the sort.
I read and understood your Post . . . You do not understand the US Federal Govetnment as it is viewed by a significant number of the citizens . . . the sensitivity of many of the citizens of this country to interference from the Federal powers . . . do you have a Military Industrial Complex in your nation? Do you have Civil War Reenactments, State Militia, etc, etc . . . NRA, TEA Party, separatist movements in Texas, Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico . . . we are a nation only united by external threats . . .

 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
Originally Posted by Cairenn

Maybe you are too young to remember the riots of the 70s. Of course they train for 'civil unrest'. So does you local police dept. They would derelict in their duty if they didn't. Just like they train for hurricanes, and tornadoes and in some places earthquakes.

If you read that you local 'fast water rescue' squad was practicing, would you then decide that they KNOW that it will flood soon. They are training because that it PART of their job.

Stop reading something into, that isn't there.


Look at some of the pictures here: http://ironmarch.org/index.php?/topic/212-60s-70s-riots-photos-and-videos/

People forget we had domestic terrorists blowing up police stations and federal buildings.

(EDIT) P.S. I just went back to the link i provided above and started looking around the site. I think i may have pointed everybody to some crazy, radical web site. My apologies if that site is a wacko site. All i saw was the pictures when i posted that link.


Yes, look at some of the pictures here, lovely web site

So, the '70's riots' we're talking about are civil rights motivated and anti war. Those are perfectly right and just causes - and people should fight for them - and they do it only when they have to. You cannot begin to compare the violence of the State with anti-war protestors and people seeking basic 'rights' (which aren't rights at all - if some can have them and others can't - or they can just be taken away). The proto-fascist egg of The Imperial Federal Government of the United States of America (to give it its most accurate nomenclature), laid around the turn of the 20th century, has hatched and grown to maturity in the blink of an historical eye. The IFGUSA knows that the biggest problem it faces is its own people; its own middle class. How ironic that some accept trinkets in exchange for slavery, while others resist what is clearly and painfully wrong. Look at the pictures - who is the perpetrator of violence - the denier of basics - who lives by the rule of violence? Is it the people or the State?
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
What the heck does Civil War reenactments have to do with anything, other than folks that enjoy history? I guess you are either ignoring the groups that reenact the Revolutionary War, the Middle Ages, World War II and even the Indian wars, and the old west.

Why didn't you add the KKK into your list? We are not united by external threats, anymore. Of course there are extremists, there were folks that opposed the American Revolution.

The opinions of a few are not reflective of the opinions of the many. I believe that Puerto Rico voted to ask for full statehood recently.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I love that you use a Russian site for your documentation. Do you feel that Communism is better form of government? or do you feel that there should be NO government?
 

MikeC

Closed Account
So, the '70's riots' we're talking about are civil rights motivated and anti war. Those are perfectly right and just causes - and people should fight for them

they are now - but there were an awful lot of people didn't think so when they were taking place.

and of course the troops "called out" for those were National Guard were they not - AFAIK in at least the most well known cases if not all? And the NG are not Federal and are not actualy covered by the PC act (indeed are specifically excluded by my reading)
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
What the heck does Civil War reenactments have to do with anything, other than folks that enjoy history? I guess you are either ignoring the groups that reenact the Revolutionary War, the Middle Ages, World War II and even the Indian wars, and the old west.

Why didn't you add the KKK into your list? We are not united by external threats, anymore. Of course there are extremists, there were folks that opposed the American Revolution.

The opinions of a few are not reflective of the opinions of the many. I believe that Puerto Rico voted to ask for full statehood recently.
I don't know where you are from. . . reenactments are a minor issue except they are a reminder of a war of separation. . .If you were raised in the Southeastern US, Texas, Alaska or Puerto Rico you would meet people everyday that understand what I am saying. . . there is no love of the Federal Government. . . many think they would do much better without it . . .
 

RolandD

Active Member
I read and understood your Post . . . You do not understand the US Federal Govetnment as it is viewed by a significant number of the citizens . . . the sensitivity of many of the citizens of this country to interference from the Federal powers . . . do you have a Military Industrial Complex in your nation? Do you have Civil War Reenactments, State Militia, etc, etc . . . NRA, TEA Party, separatist movements in Texas, Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico . . . we are a nation only united by external threats . . .

George, if you really believe this, you have a very narrow and very skewed view of our country.
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
they are now - but there were an awful lot of people didn't think so when they were taking place.

and of course the troops "called out" for those were National Guard were they not - AFAIK in at least the most well known cases if not all? And the NG are not Federal and are not actualy covered by the PC act (indeed are specifically excluded by my reading)

You reckon the IFGUSA is going to worry about the 'law' when the proverbial hits the fan? Have you heard of Guantanamo - rendition - that's a cute word for kidnap and torture. Stop being so naive.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
George, if you really believe this, you have a very narrow and very skewed view of our country.
I bet you are NOT from one of the areas of the US I include above . . . am I correct ?? If you are I bet you were not born and raised there . . .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
You reckon the IFGUSA is going to worry about the 'law' when the proverbial hits the fan? Have you heard of Guantanamo - rendition - that's a cute word for kidnap and torture. Stop being so naive.

It is a shame that when you can't actually repudiate anything I said you resort to name calling.

ther is nothing to be naive about here - except that these conspiracy theories are true because someone says so.

The evidence that the amunition purpose is for "normal operations" is htere for all to see. The evidence that the US federal military is allwoed to be used under law for aiding civil authorities is there to see.
nothing about either of them comes even close to breaking any law, nor being unconstitutional except in the fevered imaginations of people who make money from suggesting otherwise and those poor souls who believe them.

BTW what is "IFGUSA"?? "incoming fascist government (of the) USA"??
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
It is a shame that when you can't actually repudiate anything I said you resort to name calling.

ther is nothing to be naive about here - except that these conspiracy theories are true because someone says so.

The evidence that the amunition purpose is for "normal operations" is htere for all to see. The evidence that the US federal military is allwoed to be used under law for aiding civil authorities is there to see.
nothing about either of them comes even close to breaking any law, nor being unconstitutional except in the fevered imaginations of people who make money from suggesting otherwise and those poor souls who believe them.


conspiracy theories

Ah, that old perjorative-incorrect-use-of-language-chestnut - again!

I think it's because of people who think the way you do, that things like the Iraq war happen. You're fodder, or worse
 

RolandD

Active Member
I bet you are NOT from one of the areas of the US I include above . . . am I correct ?? If you are I bet you were not born and raised there . . .

Just because there is a very small, very vocal group of people on the fringe who are paranoid about their government, doesn't mean even a significant minority feel that way.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Just because there is a very small, very vocal group of people on the fringe who are paranoid about their government, doesn't mean even a significant minority feel that way.

I see you didn't answer my question . . . they are not paranoid they are resentful and dislike interference in their business whether it is right to own weapons, property rights, public display of religious icons, the right to pray in public schools, etc. etc etc . . .
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I guess that you have not paid much attention to many of my posts. I was born and raised in Dallas, both of my parents were native Texans. Both sides of my family came to Texas after the Civil War from Alabama. My great grandfather was an officer in the Confederate army. I am a daughter of the SOUTH. I have never even lived outside of it. My family had more prejudice than one could shake a stick at. Blacks, Hispanics, Catholics, Native Americans and this one is odd, very fair skin blondes, were all folks that they 'looked down on'.

I was in public schools during integration and during the 'white flight' (My Aunt and Uncle, fled to the suburbs, so their kids wouldn't have to go to school with those damn N word). I remember the signs for black and white drinking fountains, the "I retain the right to refuse service to anyone' signs. I believe that my grandfather may have been in the clan when he was young--not sure about that. My great grandfather was a plantation owner and had owned slaves (he had already freed them, because he decided that it was wrong to enslave fellow Christians).

I had the deep south upbringing, in spite of that, I NEVER heard anyone in my family advocate overthrowing the federal government. They felt that those that did were crazies, or loony. What is funny is that with that upbringing, I married a black Catholic, I looked at things with the mind of a skeptic and I applied critical thinking to what I heard and I found their attitudes to be dated and unreasonable. I was around 6 when I decided that the American Indians were not the bad guys.

Most Texans are not flaming nutters like you seem to think they are.
 

Met Watch

Moderator
I see you didn't answer my question . . . they are not paranoid they are resentful and dislike interference in their business whether it is right to own weapons, property rights, public display of religious icons, the right to pray in public schools, etc. etc etc . . .

The South? Do better without the federal government? That might be the most amusing thing I've ever heard.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
I guess that you have not paid much attention to many of my posts. I was born and raised in Dallas, both of my parents were native Texans. Both sides of my family came to Texas after the Civil War from Alabama. My great grandfather was an officer in the Confederate army. I am a daughter of the SOUTH. I have never even lived outside of it. My family had more prejudice than one could shake a stick at. Blacks, Hispanics, Catholics, Native Americans and this one is odd, very fair skin blondes, were all folks that they 'looked down on'.

I was in public schools during integration and during the 'white flight' (My Aunt and Uncle, fled to the suburbs, so their kids wouldn't have to go to school with those damn N word). I remember the signs for black and white drinking fountains, the "I retain the right to refuse service to anyone' signs. I believe that my grandfather may have been in the clan when he was young--not sure about that. My great grandfather was a plantation owner and had owned slaves (he had already freed them, because he decided that it was wrong to enslave fellow Christians).

I had the deep south upbringing, in spite of that, I NEVER heard anyone in my family advocate overthrowing the federal government. They felt that those that did were crazies, or loony. What is funny is that with that upbringing, I married a black Catholic, I looked at things with the mind of a skeptic and I applied critical thinking to what I heard and I found their attitudes to be dated and unreasonable. I was around 6 when I decided that the American Indians were not the bad guys.

Most Texans are not flaming nutters like you seem to think they are.
I didn't say they were willing to fight another civil war . . . I said many were resentful and did not like Federal Interference and if you have the background you say you have . . . you know that what I said is correct . . .
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
BTW you mentioned 'prayer in school' We didn't have prayer in school in the 50s, we didn't say the Pledge of Allegiance every day either. We did sing Christmas carols, and even spirituals. I remember learning Psalm 100 for Thanksgiving one year. I was active in the Baptist church when the Supreme court ruled on prayer in the public school, the state wide magazine for the Southern Baptist Convention APPROVED of it.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
BTW you mentioned 'prayer in school' We didn't have prayer in school in the 50s, we didn't say the Pledge of Allegiance every day either. We did sing Christmas carols, and even spirituals. I remember learning Psalm 100 for Thanksgiving one year. I was active in the Baptist church when the Supreme court ruled on prayer in the public school, the state wide magazine for the Southern Baptist Convention APPROVED of it.
I am not responsible for your perceptions as you are not for mine; however, I think you have rose colored glasses on . . .
 

RolandD

Active Member
George, I'm a child of the central states. You can see from my info that I live in the buckle of the bible belt.

I see you didn't answer my question . . . they are not paranoid they are resentful and dislike interference in their business whether it is right to own weapons, property rights, public display of religious icons, the right to pray in public schools, etc. etc etc . . .

So you believe that people should have the right to force their religion on others?
 

Met Watch

Moderator
Please explain your humor?

Please, George. The amount of money the South receives from the United States government is insane - they get far more money from the Feds than they ever pay back. If the Feds completely pulled out and let the states run themselves, they'd be bankrupt in an instant. Texas is the only state that could get away with it because of all that oil.

The South needs the Feds, badly. They just won't admit it.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I DO have that background. It seems to me that you are selectively 'forgetting' a lot. Even Gov Perry ASKS the federal government for help in times of disasters.

Most of the South gets more money from the Federal government than they pay in taxes. Texas pays a little more than it gets, I understand that much of that is because of the amount of oil and gas produced here.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
George, I'm a child of the central states. You can see from my info that I live in the buckle of the bible belt.



So you believe that people should have the right to force their religion on others?
This is not about what I believe or don't believe about the issue of school prayer, etc . . . the issue is there are significant numbers of people in the South who think it is not the right of the Federal Powers to enforce such issues . . . and they resent it . . . and don't trust the Government . . .
 

MikeC

Closed Account
I read and understood your Post . . . You do not understand the US Federal Govetnment as it is viewed by a significant number of the citizens . . .

What makes you think that?? I see plenty of evidence of how some citizens view their Govt.

the sensitivity of many of the citizens of this country to interference from the Federal powers . . .

Which is fine - but when you find that somethign is a beat up you shuold take that sensitivity to an area that is mores real than imaginitive.

do you have a Military Industrial Complex in your nation? Do you have Civil War Reenactments, State Militia, etc, etc . . . NRA, TEA Party, separatist movements in Texas, Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico

Of course not - ony the USA has those. But we do have right wing idiots, a gun lobby, industry lobby groups, overseas territories and a grievance industry - which are pretty much equivalent IMO.

. . . we are a nation only united by external threats . .



Would you like to explain the relevance of this??
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Please, George. The amount of money the South receives from the United States government is insane - they get far more money from the Feds than they ever pay back. If the Feds completely pulled out and let the states run themselves, they'd be bankrupt in an instant. Texas is the only state that could get away with it because of all that oil.

The South needs the Feds, badly. They just won't admit it.
Bingo!!! They won 't admit it and they resent it . . . No matter the balance sheet which can be argued greatly . . . I don't want to get into the use of the south as a source of cheap and exploited natural resources and under paid labor for the benefit of the rest of the country, etc. . .
 

RolandD

Active Member
This is not about what I believe or don't believe about the issue of school prayer, etc . . . the issue is there are significant numbers of people in the South who think it is not the right of the Federal Powers to enforce such issues . . . and they resent it . . . and don't trust the Government . . .

Hell, I don't trust the government to always look out for my best interests, but that's a long way from believing that the only thing holding the country together is fear from outside attack.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Hell, I don't trust the government to always look out for my best interests, but that's a long way from believing that the only thing holding the country together is fear from outside attack.
No it isn't the only thing . . . there is now Social Security, Federal Pensions, soon to be mandated health care, Homeland Security, and on and on . . . it still doesn't make people want interference from the Federal Powers or the potential of more Military personnel in their lives . . .
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
BTW you mentioned 'prayer in school' We didn't have prayer in school in the 50s, we didn't say the Pledge of Allegiance every day either. We did sing Christmas carols, and even spirituals. I remember learning Psalm 100 for Thanksgiving one year. I was active in the Baptist church when the Supreme court ruled on prayer in the public school, the state wide magazine for the Southern Baptist Convention APPROVED of it.
 

Met Watch

Moderator
No it isn't the only thing . . . there is now Social Security, Federal Pensions, soon to be mandated health care, Homeland Security, and on and on . . . it still doesn't make people want interference from the Federal Powers or the potential of more Military personnel in their lives . . .

Yes, I can see the outrage people have over...getting money after they retire.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member

MikeC

Closed Account

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
BTW you mentioned 'prayer in school' We didn't have prayer in school in the 50s, we didn't say the Pledge of Allegiance every day either. We did sing Christmas carols, and even spirituals. I remember learning Psalm 100 for Thanksgiving one year. I was active in the Baptist church when the Supreme court ruled on prayer in the public school, the state wide magazine for the Southern Baptist Convention APPROVED of it.
I had prayer everyday from 1957 - 1963 in public school, guess I was not in as a progressive school as you were . . . the SB Convention may have approved but I bet many of the individual members didn't . . . and still don't . . .
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
What makes you think that?? I see plenty of evidence of how some citizens view their Govt.



Which is fine - but when you find that somethign is a beat up you shuold take that sensitivity to an area that is mores real than imaginitive.



Of course not - ony the USA has those. But we do have right wing idiots, a gun lobby, industry lobby groups, overseas territories and a grievance industry - which are pretty much equivalent IMO.



Would you like to explain the relevance of this??
Thought you might relate to the feelings of injustice that oppressed minorities feel in your area of the world to the way many Southerners felt in the US . . . it was long thought there was an intentional policy to keep the South economically crippled for decades after the Civil War . . . a policy whose effects we are just emerging from now . . .
 
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