Debunked: DHS orders 450 million .40 caliber bullets for use in America

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Charlie Primero

Active Member
The govt recently puchased another contract for up to 750 Million rounds bringing the total to 1.5 Billion rounds
thats 4 rounds for every man woman and child in the country.

Note this critical fact...

...it's not an order for 450 million bullets. It's a contract to supply...

In the government contracting business this is called a "BPA" or "Blanket Purchase Agreement". The purpose is to reduce paperwork for both the purchasing agency and the contractor. Agencies like these BPAs because they only have to negotiate specs one time, and because it forces the contractor to prove they can supply that capacity (100 bulldozers, 12,000 data entry clerks, etc.). Contractors like them because they are guaranteed a revenue stream for the next five years. They can show that to banks to get better financing.

Stop worrying about what fascists in D.C. do. That does not advance Freedom. Everyone knows what fascists desire. Teaching friends and children to be free by demonstrating it is a much better use of your few minutes on this earth.
 

cheeple

Member
Note this critical fact...



In the government contracting business this is called a "BPA" or "Blanket Purchase Agreement". The purpose is to reduce paperwork for both the purchasing agency and the contractor. Agencies like these BPAs because they only have to negotiate specs one time, and because it forces the contractor to prove they can supply that capacity (100 bulldozers, 12,000 data entry clerks, etc.). Contractors like them because they are guaranteed a revenue stream for the next five years. They can show that to banks to get better financing.

Stop worrying about what fascists in D.C. do. That does not advance Freedom. Everyone knows what fascists desire. Teaching friends and children to be free by demonstrating it is a much better use of your few minutes on this earth.

Agreed
 

cheeple

Member
The Social Security administration recently placed an order for 174,000 rounds of .357 Hallow Point Bullets, There are better more informative articles but I chose the Huffington Post mainstream media article below:

Look out grandma. The people who cut your retirement check may be packing some heat.
The Social Security Administration recently posted a purchase request for 174,000 .357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point bullets. The SSA only employs 295 special agents with law enforcement authority, according to CNSNews. These agents are divided among 66 offices across the country.
In a statement released to the public, the SSA stated that the ammo is intended for training and security purposes only:
SSA is processing more applications than ever, which means more traffic in SSA offices. Employee and visitor safety is the highest priority for OIG, which, together with the Federal Protective Services and local law enforcement, has jurisdiction over SSA workplaces.​
In a further attempt to explain the purchase request, the federal agency said SSA agents have duties comparable to state and federal law enforcement officials. The agency also makes a similar purchase every year, according to the SSA.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...on-bullets_n_1797069.html?utm_hp_ref=business
 

MikeC

Closed Account
So 295 agents ...174,000 bullets......590 bullets each.

I read somewhere that agents of some agency or other are required to keep 200 rounds available, and fire 500 or so per year at practice........if SSA agents have similar requirements then it is marginally less than 1 year's usage!
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
The Social Security administration recently placed an order for 174,000 rounds of .357 Hallow Point Bullets

You mean "hollow", not "hallow". :eek:

174,000 is a really small amount of ammunition for 295 people. Back when ammo was cheap, I could easily burn through 1,000 rounds on a Saturday afternoon with a couple of friends.

Again, don't worry about this stuff. The number of hired guns compared to us is miniscule. The slave plantation is maintained by media conditioning and 12,000 hours of childhood indoctrination in schools, not by guns. If you wish to stop human-on-human predation, build minds.
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
You don't understand economics, but that's okay. Just know that the "collaspe" you fear is nothing more than a publicity stunt. Read FerFal. Learn how to be happy poor.

If it's a publicity stunt, why then are you making arrangements with your car mechanic and physician to exchange silver and gold for their services?
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Even by myself...when I had more free time and facilities nearby....I could easily shoot 500 rds in a short afternoon. Very often I would spend both Sat and Sun shooting the 1000 rds I reloaded on Fri. I used a shooting session as a date more than a few times.

590 per agent is a pittance. Forget practice...yearly qualification probably requires at least 50-60 rds, 45 rds carried I would imagine...maybe only 30 or so. So lets say about 500 for practice sessions. Maybe once every 2 1/2 months they get to shoot 100 rds? I can only hope they spend some of their own money to get in more than that.
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
If it's a publicity stunt, why then are you making arrangements with your car mechanic and physician to exchange silver and gold for their services?

Because I'm a Prepper. I take precautions. I prepare for emergencies ahead of time. The Publicity Stunt could result in a month of service disruption.

You can predict the future by studying the past. They rhyme. Go examine the major political and economic reorganizations of the last couple hundred years.

Human beings are not the chaotic, vicious animals TEDTalks, FoxCNN, and Hillary want you to believe them to be. Little children are taught this lie to keep them fearfully dependent on Big DaddyMommy. I know your popular media spends billions to convince you otherwise, but human beings are in reality generally peaceful, self-organizing, benevolent, loving creatures.

Any "Financial Collapse" we experience in the United States will merely be a currency swap from Dollars, which would have run their course, onto the next grift, some new currency they can begin devaluing. This repetitive game is thousands of years old.

Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation#History
 

Trigger Hippie

Senior Member.
Human beings are not the chaotic, vicious animals TEDTalks, FoxCNN, and Hillary want you to believe them to be. Little children are taught this lie to keep them fearfully dependent on Big DaddyMommy. I know your popular media spends billions to convince you otherwise, but human beings are in reality generally peaceful, self-organizing, benevolent, loving creatures.

Please don't patronize. Popular media panders to the basest emotions because it generates revenue, that's all. I've found TEDTalks to be nothing but informative.
 

SR1419

Senior Member.
Human beings are not the chaotic, vicious animals (but) are in reality generally peaceful, self-organizing, benevolent, loving creatures.

Actually- humans are all of the above- the characteristics you mentioned are not mutually exclusive.

If history has taught us anything is that Human are capable of a wide range of behaviors.

There were chaotic, vicious Humans long before mass media and public schools.
 

cheeple

Member
You mean "hollow", not "hallow". :eek:

174,000 is a really small amount of ammunition for 295 people. Back when ammo was cheap, I could easily burn through 1,000 rounds on a Saturday afternoon with a couple of friends.

Again, don't worry about this stuff. The number of hired guns compared to us is miniscule. The slave plantation is maintained by media conditioning and 12,000 hours of childhood indoctrination in schools, not by guns. If you wish to stop human-on-human predation, build minds.

yeah it doesnt seem like alot, plus the article says the SSA makes similar purchases every year, but only this year it makes it's way into both popular media and alternative media.
 

Charlie Primero

Active Member
Please don't patronize. Popular media panders to the basest emotions because it generates revenue, that's all. I've found TEDTalks to be nothing but informative.

No. Popular media is owned by four or five giant multi-national corporations who carefully craft their media content to promote the long-term goal of fascism.

The fact that you don't know this demonstrates their success.
 

Marko

New Member
I just stumbled across this forum, and this is my first post here. There's a lot of good thinking going on, but also some flaws, which I would attribute to lack of knowledge about the subject matter (as opposed to just basic general stupidity like you might see elsewhere).

Firstly, US law enforcement have ALWAYS use hollow-point bullets.

That's not entirely true. Law enforcement typically used wad-cutters, semi-wad-cutters or ball up until maybe the 1980s or so. What a police department or other law enforcement agency uses is a matter of departmental policy (and often local government decision-making). The fiasco in (I believe) Los Angeles where police officers shot a man on PCP 37 times and he still lived and managed to kill and injure several other officers during the 20-minute gun-battle caused many police departments to re-evaluate the types of weapons and ammunition they were using.

But the key thing here is the numbers. The suggestion being that this is an unusually large number of bullets. So the first thing to notice here is that it's not an order for 450 million bullets. It's a contract to supply, with a MAXIMUM volume of 450 million rounds over FIVE YEARS.

So really it's a contract to supply up to 90 million bullets a year.

Granted, but there's a couple of key points over-looked here. ATK is obligated to supply 90 Million bullets per year, and since bullets don't fall out of the sky, that means ATK must either have the ammunition stock-piled, or it must manufacture 90 Million rounds per year to meet the contract. Failure to meet the contract, failure to perform on the contract, results in serious fines and financial penalties for ATK.

So, no matter how you slice it, ATK is going to manufacture 450 Million rounds --- to ensure that it is able to perform on the contract.

It's also not just the DHS. It's the DHS and the Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

No, it's ICE and only ICE. 450 Million rounds for ICE is a lot of ammunition.

But the thing that this hoax ignores is that the vast majority of rounds fired are NOT fired at people. They are fired during training and practice.

But that isn't true. I'll show you how you can tell the difference, plus poke another hole in the disinformation spread by Politifact.

.357 SIG Training Ammunition


Solicitation Number: HSTS07-12-I-00105

Agency: Department of Homeland Security
Office: Transportation Security Administration
Location: Headquarters TSA



https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...3a7b9723e5b7452711810b01d56&tab=core&_cview=0

.357 Sig Duty Ammmunition

Solicitation Number: HSTS07-I2-I-00104

Agency: Department of Homeland Security
Office: Transportation Security Administration
Location: Headquarters TSA



https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...c03cf88f3c6cbc354acebc0f6b9&tab=core&_cview=0

See the difference? The bid solicitiations are specifically identified as either "Duty Ammuntion" or "Training Ammuntion." Note the end user of this ammunition: it is the TSA.

Commerical Leaded Training Ammunition


Solicitation Number: HSFLGL-12-B-00003

Agency: Department of Homeland Security
Office: Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC)
Location: Procurement Division

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...8adb7fe40b7489fbbf5b86eaa0e&tab=core&_cview=1



Again, this is a solicitation for training ammuntion. Note that the end user here is FLETC --- the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center and not DHS, or ICE, or TSA.

The big gaping hole in the Politifact story, your source for this "debunking" is with the numbers and how they are juggled to provide a supposed logical explanation for this ammunition purchase.


  1. Where the story at Politifact really loses credibility (and I’m not talking about the fact that you can’t comment on the story, a standard Politifact method to prevent any opposing info to their claims) is with how it avoids asking the question about “practice” rounds versus live fire or live use rounds.

Is there any actual evidence that they would not use standard ammo in training? What exactly would they use instead?

Those are good questions and they are answered previously -- showing that bid solcitiations specify or differentiate between Training Ammunition and Duty Ammunition, and then also the bid solicitation that has a dedicated shipment to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.

The contract is not for 450 million. That's just the upper end of the availability. The actual amount ordered is likely to be much lower.

But as I already pointed out, in order for ATK to perform on the contract, ATK has to manufacture 450 Million rounds. I don't profess to be knowledgeable in the manufacture of ammunition, but I dare say it takes more than a day to make 1 Million rounds, or 500,000 rounds.

Since 1913 the U.S. Dollar has lost 95% to 98% of it's purchasing power the real decline didnt begin until the end of the bretton woods agreement and Nixons finally removing all pegging of the dollar to Gold. It's coming to it's natural end.

I fail to see how that is even remotely relevant to this discussion here.

If you mean the British Pound yes it's 317 years old and you view it as a success, but success is relative, The British pound was defined as 12 ounces of silver, so it's worth less than 1/200 or 0.5% of its original value. In other words, the most successful long standing currency in existence has lost 99.5% of its value, it too will need to be replaced.

It would be grossly unfair if I did not mention that one of my undergraduate degrees is a BA in Economics.

In the 18 year period 1984-2002, the value of the British Pound Sterling declined 49%.

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/c...3/rp03-082.pdf

Accordingly, I'm not really sure why anyone would be fawning over Britain's federal reserve, oh, sorry, I mean central bank.

If history has taught us anything is that Human are capable of a wide range of behaviors.

Indeed, but to expound on that, during any time of civil strife para-military units are more likely to commit atrocities against civilians than military units.

And local law enforcement and DHS and its subordinate agencies are para-military units.

You can look at Chris Browning's Ordinary Men: Police Battalion 101 about civilian police in Hamburg (Germany) who were also military reservists that were called up to active duty during WW II. They were sent to the Central Government -- the agency that administered controlled territories in Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and parts of Belarus. They committed numerous atrocities not only against Jews, but also against local civilian populations -- atrocities that regular German army units would not commit. You can also look at the former Yugoslavia, South Africa and any number of other countries that have had some form of strife in the last 60-70 years or so for examples. Romania is another, where the army refused to fire on crowds of civilians, but the para-military secret police had no qualms whatsoever -- and did gun down civilian demonstrators.

I'm also a disabled veteran. I don't fear the military or national guard, but I do fear para-military organizations, like the local police, and like DHS and its subordinates, precisely because of the history of para-military action.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I don't see any indication that they have to pre-manufacture the maximum number of the rounds for next-day delivery. It would seem far more likely they just need to have the manufacturing capacity to do it within some time constraints.

I think the real question here is how different all this is from previous years.
 

cheeple

Member
Yes, Food and Supplies will be very important as barter but food and supplies are not money only Gold and Silver are money as the satisfy the requirements for what money is which includes being

Durable (which food is not)
Fungible (which supplies are not)
Easily Divisible (which diamonds are not)
Portable (which real estate is not)
Rare, and Intrinsically valuable (which fiat currency is not)
 

GuitKitty

New Member
Yes, Food and Supplies will be very important as barter but food and supplies are not money only Gold and Silver are money as the satisfy the requirements for what money is which includes being

Durable (which food is not)
Fungible (which supplies are not)
Easily Divisible (which diamonds are not)
Portable (which real estate is not)
Rare, and Intrinsically valuable (which fiat currency is not)

But in the event of an economic collapse, how important is "money" (however you want to define it) going to be? I doubt I would find gold intrinsically valuable in the event of a collapse. It is not a useful commodity when survival is what's important. In the event of an economic downturn, where recovery is probable, I'd agree that gold will have some value. But only because the market, when it recovers, will give value to that gold. But in the event of total economic/societal collapse, gold will be worthless as a barter commodity. It's simply not useful enough. But that's just my opinion on something that I don't believe will happen in the foreseeable future anyway.
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
RE the TSA solicitations.......did you actually read them? Except for the FLETC, they aren't a solicitation for bids....they are a marketing survey. I'm sure they are indeed written much like a bid would be. If you read through the questions...they specifically ask about lead times and delivery and replacement of a faulty product. I can't see the detail in the actual FLETC bid....apparently my Adobe is messed up somehow.

Sorry I don't have the sources right now....but major ammunition plants can probably easily produce 500,000 rounds per day on a dedicated line, if not much more. Don't forget...this isn't me in my garage putting out 500 an hour. They make the bullets, the brass, the primers, probably everything except the powder (and maybe even that off site). All they need is the raw materials, no reason to stockpile all 450 million rds.

Ahhh the Lake City Army plant run by Remington can produce 1.5 billion rounds per year. That's more than 4 million a day avg. No clue about how many shifts they run or other details. So ATK could probably fill a 10 mil rd order in a week with ease.


Also the TSA for whatever reason uses .357 Sig. Anecdotal reports would seem to indicate the .40 is the caliber of choice for most agencies, though I realize the Secret Service and Air marshals as well as several other large LE agencies use it in various types of handguns. They may be optional choices as well.....most agencies allow at least 2 or 3 "approved" options.
 

cheeple

Member
But in the event of an economic collapse, how important is "money" (however you want to define it) going to be? I doubt I would find gold intrinsically valuable in the event of a collapse. It is not a useful commodity when survival is what's important. In the event of an economic downturn, where recovery is probable, I'd agree that gold will have some value. But only because the market, when it recovers, will give value to that gold. But in the event of total economic/societal collapse, gold will be worthless as a barter commodity. It's simply not useful enough. But that's just my opinion on something that I don't believe will happen in the foreseeable future anyway.

Hey man i dont mean to sound mean when i say this but you asked "in the event of an economic collapse, how important is money" I mean this with Love that was an ignorant statement, There have been many economic collapses in the past but life goes on, we will not be living in a mad max type scenario, this will be the single biggest global event in history but people still need to live, work, eat, and make a living. I already made your point that food and supplies are good barter, people will still have goods to sell, services to offer, houses, cars, and boats to sell and Gold & Silver will be the only money accepted in an economic collapse scenario, it's intrinsic value is historical and global.
 

GuitKitty

New Member
I'm sorry you thought that was an ignorant question. I just don't see where something that has no functional value (i.e. gold/silver) will be any good in the event of a total collapse. I qualified that above by saying that I could see the value in the event of a partial collapse followed by a recovery, but in the event of a total collapse I, personally, would not accept gold and/or silver in exchange for labor, services, or supplies.

As far as a Mad Max-esque collapse, that seems to be what many preppers are preparing for. A total collapse of not only the economy but of society as a whole. Personally, I don't see this happening in the foreseeable future (again, as I stated above), but some people certainly seem to be preparing for just such a scenario. I'm thinking our real disagreement is in how far this hypothetical collapse will go. Again, I agree that in the event of a partial collapse with a following recovery precious metals and such will have value. In the event of a catastrophic collapse of society, they won't. That's my opinion on the hypothetical.
 

cheeple

Member
LOl yes many preppers are prepping for zombies but real preppers are prepping for the unexpected and the unforeseeable, but I do know that only two things are certain in life death & taxes, there will be government, and before anyone invests in precious metals they should have food, shelter, water, supplies, and pay off debts, Precious metals have proven themself to be one of the better investments of the last 5 years, and the big money is flowing into the PM market as a hedge against uncertainty, you can look up George Soros's last purchase for example.
 

cheeple

Member
I was thinking about something you said
"I just don't see where something that has no functional value (i.e. gold/silver)

That is DEFINATELY wrong, Gold has many Functional attributes but Silver on the other hand Wow it has more uses and patents than any other metal in existence and you even own silver and may not know it, it's in your computers and cell phones, it's in your TV's and your monitors, it's used in Vast quantities in every Missile launched in the world and that is a SHAT LOAD of missiles, it is Huge in the medical industry for it's anti viral and ant bacterial qualities, it's the most important part of Solar Panels, Silver is not only money it's an Industrial metal, it's the most reflective and the most conductive of heat and electricity of the metals, silver is different than Gold in the way it's not treasured instead it's consumed and gone forever, it's used in Super capacitors, and nanosilver , please see this link: http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-...tion-demand-continue-to-rise-sharply-by-2015/

the USGS (United States Geological Society) said Silver could be the first Mineral to go extinct - Those are not my words so if anybody wants to debunk the USGS please direct it at them. The only way it could not go extinct is if the price kept up with the demand to mine it.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Also the industrial uses of gold rely on there being some kind of advanced industry to use it, and populace to consume the products. It's no functional use in a societal breakdown.
 

GuitKitty

New Member
...Silver on the other hand Wow it has more uses and patents than any other metal in existence and you even own silver and may not know it, it's in your computers and cell phones, it's in your TV's and your monitors, it's used in Vast quantities in every Missile launched in the world and that is a SHAT LOAD of missiles, it is Huge in the medical industry for it's anti viral and ant bacterial qualities, it's the most important part of Solar Panels, Silver is not only money it's an Industrial metal, it's the most reflective and the most conductive of heat and electricity of the metals....

Again, you seem to be ignoring where I said precious metals have value in a downturn, but not in a catastrophic collapse. My full quote was: I just don't see where something that has no functional value (i.e. gold/silver) will be any good in the event of a total collapse. As Mick pointed out, precious metals have use in industry, but without industry they are not useful. At least not enough to make them worth much compared to food/shelter etc.

Gold/silver may be a good investment in the event of economic turmoil, but in a collapse I would not trade gold or silver for food/services/supplies.
 

zippy

New Member
The pdf file (91 pages) https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=500096e56b0d8362d91e93cf105309c3 showing the request for purchase is for many different types of ammo. .223, .308, .357 sig, .40 cal, .45 cal, 12guage shotgun shells [rifled slugs, buck, etc] etc.. all told, over 1.4 billion rounds. The interesting thing about all this is that the detractors are saying it's mainly for target practice. And when looking at this 1 item alone, it is possible. Anything's possible. But when added to:
Military practicing for civil unrest in US cities
TSAs ever widening web over civil liberties in the US
The NDAA
Federal militarization of local police force
addition 20,000 US troops ready for civil unrest on US soil
Unlawful addition of millions of innocent Americans to the No Fly List
The demolition of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The 4th is toast and they are after the 2nd.
See something, say something. turning neighbor against neighbor.
The dissapearing of US Vets through the use of the NDAA. 20 last month alone in just 1 county of Virginia
The Fed mentioning a bank holiday and QE3
The constant vilification of alternate news sources by politicians, lame stream news orgs.
Explorer Scouts taught to take up arms against terrorists [all photos are of white men]
When they say it is for homeland security, first.. what part of HS? TSA doesn't carry pistols. So, NOAA? FEMA?

Do I think 'they' are planning to attack Americans? No, but 'they' are going to use a disaster as an excuse to do so. Just talk to anyone that lived through H. Katrina. Guns taken from lawful citizens, and much more.

What method of disaster will engage this effort? Monetary and economic? Another bombing? Chem weapon? A mix of the 3, over a time period?

All we can do is keep track and make a logical judgement based on fact and history.
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Military practicing for civil unrest in US cities
TSAs ever widening web over civil liberties in the US
The NDAA
Federal militarization of local police force
addition 20,000 US troops ready for civil unrest on US soil
Unlawful addition of millions of innocent Americans to the No Fly List
The demolition of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The 4th is toast and they are after the 2nd.
See something, say something. turning neighbor against neighbor.
The dissapearing of US Vets through the use of the NDAA. 20 last month alone in just 1 county of Virginia
The Fed mentioning a bank holiday and QE3
The constant vilification of alternate news sources by politicians, lame stream news orgs.
Explorer Scouts taught to take up arms against terrorists [all photos are of white men]
When they say it is for homeland security, first.. what part of HS? TSA doesn't carry pistols. So, NOAA? FEMA?

Claims with no references or proof? How about you address them individually and provide something other than opinion? I especially like this one.."The dissapearing of US Vets through the use of the NDAA. 20 last month alone in just 1 county of Virginia".
 

constitution

New Member
Wow. Just came across this ridiculous site. Hey Mick! which govt agency do you work for? I cant imagine one can be so dumb. Apparently there are more than I thought.

Hey Mick. You can play word games all day long but I am afraid you live in denial and not up to date with real current issues. If one reads your article and knows nothing else , I could understand the denial. The only the thing you are doing is dumbing down the dumb.

I dont know anything about your site though it doesnt look interesting. Is it about propping up Govt. official stories?

I came across your site reading articles on the purchases. By the way, this purchase was only one of many overly large purchases made lately.

Dont worry. The govt. loves you with all their heart and soul. Nothing to see here, go back to sleep. Out of sight, out of mind.
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Of course it doesn't look interesting....

You have your mind made up and would not believe a fact of any sort if it came from a government source. Am I correct?

Perhaps you could provide some other source of facts that confirm your beliefs?
 

constitution

New Member
Other source of facts? Are you kidding? How old are you? Were you born yesterday? Do you read, ever?

You want facts: You like others are so far in denial or dont read except cnn, fox, abc, etc. that I am afraid its too late for people like you. Other sources of facts? That question blows my mind and offensive to me, this country, freedom, liberty and our forefathers who died to give you the Constitution and Bill of Rights. You and others are an embarrassment to what this country is suppose to be. If you need " other sources of facts" the fact is there is no hope for you.

We are at a very dangerous time in history. This implosion has been planned for decades. You see, those who are running the show hate freedom and liberty. It makes their skin craw. They vomit at our very existence.

Ruby Ridge, Waco, OKC, 9/11 , Just a few incidents. But dont worry, go back to sleep, the govt loves you with all their heart and soul. Keep eating the GMOs, drinking the fluoride, and dont forget to take your medication that your doctor said was safe for you. Only listen to CNN not people like Alex Jones and others. http://www.infowars.com/ http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/
 

constitution

New Member
Did you say silver has no functional use in a societal breakdown? It will be used as currency.

I think Mick could careless about any of these issues. I question who " MICK " is and seems his only purpose is to get reactions. This site is a waste of time and I wont be back.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Why would you use silver as a currency?? I would use food, or maybe tools, ammunition or fuel - but food would probably be my first choice.

You wouldn't be able to buy anything from me with silver unless I knew that I could use that silver to buy something else.

Mick identifies who he is on contrailscience.com.

Who are you?
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
Well....he said he won't be back. Since he couldn't answer a simple question or provide any information...I can understand why.

You know it's funny...even on a TV series that was only on for 2 seasons (Jericho), they got the fact that money of any sort wasn't really valuable after a collapse. Fuel, food, skills, electrical power, even salt...those were valuable.....but not coins or paper...or even gold...unless it was in the form of art or jewelry. Yes...I know...it was a TV show...but I still think that was a more accurate representation than what the "precious metal" types believe.
 

marsh84722

New Member
They just placed an order for another 750 Million rounds, the National Guard is Training with foreign Military, They had hardened eastern European Soldiers "policing" Hardin Montana, They are getting ready for Rioting, Civil Unrest, and Martial Law, they know the economy is going to collapse, it's an inevitable consequence of Fiat Currency, Fiat Currency has a normal life span of about 27 years we are currently at around 50 and real debt is 222 Trillion Dollars. The federal govt is broke, every state, County, and City is massively in debt, scranton pennsylvania are paying police minimum wage, Vallejo and Stockton here in California have claimed bankruptcy, not sure which one you want to try to debunk first I'm new here but it's obvious the DHS knows something and is preparing.

http://endthelie.com/2012/04/05/why-does-homeland-security-need-up-to-650-750-million-bullets
http://www.alt-market.com/articles/971-dhs-orders-750-million-more-rounds-of-ammo

^not true

The alleged 750 million round order was actually a huge miscount, under HSFLGL-12-B-00003 it shows that it was an order for a maximum of 70 million rounds.

The entire history of ammunition purchases made by the DHS can be found here http://www.prepperpodcast.com/history-dhs-ammunition-purchases/#axzz24qR1asEJ
 

constitution

New Member
I said I wouldnt be back but the unbelieveable stupidity on this site, I cant believe. First, gold and silver has been used as currency or to barter with for over 500 years! Yes, food, water, ammo, etc is also good. But to say gold and silver is not is stupid.

This guy who calls himself " mick" does his best to push official govt. stories. He likes to " debunk chemtrails"
NEWS FLASH- The govt has already admitted to it! There are official documents of this! Of the spraying, of the weather modification. AGAIN, the govt has already admitted to it. There are officials govt documents to read!

NOW, I would like ALL THE INFRAGARD members on here to raise their hands!!!! Hey MICK you know who that is, right?

You guys have fun. Heading back to ALEX JONES. THIS PLACE IS THE MATRIX. I am taking the red pill.
 
Promise?

AJ....that's the guy that when he says "This is confirmed" (no matter that it hasn't been) everyone believes it..right?


I do listen to Alex Jones and I do believe that the idea that there is nothing to see and or that nothing is going on is bunk of the highest. I however will be the first to say that Alex Jones can be bad, very bad about not vetting stuff and it drives me and others crazy when he does. If its sounds shocking and attention grabbing then too often Alex will put out there like as if God himself had testified to the authenticity of the material. And for the record, that bit about how he claims to admit he’s wrong when he is wrong, BS. He will admit to being wrong on occasion but not if its someone else correcting him unless it’s a guest.

The other day Alex had a guest on that is the creator of the GNU operating system and it was hilarious listening to the interview because you could easily hear just how not-so-smart Alex felt when talking to this guy. There was one point where an attempt by Alex to draw a comparison fell flat and with a big olde thud!
It’s one thing to do this kind of thing with information from a source you trust but when you do it with something from an user blog, that’s just bad. What’s worse is that regardless of what you think of Jones or whether you believe what he has to say, the fact is that he should know better than to do this and that’s being kind because I think he does know better but does it anyway for the effect it can have on shocking people out of their coma.
What makes this worse is that you can’t correct Alex on anything no matter what. If you try to correct something that Alex has incorrectly stated or provide ANY level of constructive criticism then one of 2 things will happen:

You get screamed at, yelled at and optionally called something derogative like scum You get the self-deprecation lecture, the one where Aleex says you’re right and then proceeds to say you’re right about him not doing enough and or not having sacrificed enough for this cause.
I know I said 2 things but if you’re real unlucky and catch him on an off day then you get a combo of both A & B.
The fact is that Alex Jones does not properly vet everything he says and when he does get something wrong he will sometimes continue to state the incorrect info long after its been shown (in one way or another by the conspiracy crowd) to be wrong. I believe his writers do a far better job of checking material before posting it.
Let me reiterate that I DO believe much of what Alex says is true from the conspiracy to enact global governance to chemtrails and GMO foods. That doesn’t mean I believe he’s right about everything and it especially does not mean I or anyone else who listens agrees with him %100 on those things we don’t disagree.
As you can probably surmise by now, I’m not real popular on the Infowars forums either because I don’t blindly worship the daily words dispensed. That said there is a deliberate move to enact global governance under an elite lead dictatorship and it amazes me how you debunkers will deny what’s in front of you just to avoid admitting that there might be some truth to it all.
 

Gunguy45

Senior Member.
BCC...thanks for that honest appraisal...kind of refreshing if I may say.

The problem I have with the AJ types (like I said before...I've only heard snippets and immediately jumped channels/stations) is that when they are so obviously wrong on some things...how can I possibly believe anything else they say/promote. I've listened to Mike Savage, Rush, others I have forgotten...when I was driving in areas that all I could get was AM...but it was only for amusement most of the time. I have heard a few radio types that seemed very informed and intelligent...and I enjoyed their programs but I don't listen to them regularly...I don't travel as much as I did before.

It's just my way...no offense.
 
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