Phillip Marshall, 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist, Apparent Suicide? Or What?

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Also do dead people have constitutional rights? Not be a smart ass but it seems he is permanently pleading the 5th. Also how are the dead prosecuted? While his estate might be targeted for action how it is disposed of is in the hands of the surviving heirs whomever they are.
 
Need another overhead shot of "the home" where the booze was found?
http://www.bollyn.com/public/Marshall_house_in_Murphys.jpg
The pix in Madsen's docs are even better. You can see both stories of the house.

This guy, Greg Fernandez Jr. Went to Phil's neighborhood and took video of his house. Front, back and the sides.
See the front door, the window next to it, the dirt road in the back...
The tour starts at about 10:00


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHcW2gMbT34

The thing that was always most bothersome about the theory that he was silenced is the fact that this, if it was a hit, accomplished the exact opposite of "silencing" his theories. More people know now about what he wrote and thought than ever. If he was to be silenced, surely the pros could have come up with a better way. And left the kids out of it.

This violent behavior on anti depressants happens more and more frequently. There are over 4800+ cases of this documented here:

http://ssristories.com/index.php

Our troops are committing suicide at an ever increasing rate.
Here's an excerpt from an article from a few years ago about suicide, drugs and troops:

360_warmy_0616.jpg
America's Medicated Army

...At least 115 soldiers killed themselves last year, including 36 in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army said on May 29. That's the highest toll since it started keeping such records in 1980. Nearly 40% of Army suicide victims in 2006 and 2007 took psychotropic drugs — overwhelmingly, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) like Prozac and Zoloft. While the Army cites failed relationships as the primary cause, some outside experts sense a link between suicides and prescription-drug use — though there is also no way of knowing how many suicide attempts the antidepressants may have prevented by improving a soldier's spirits. "The high percentage of U.S. soldiers attempting suicide after taking SSRIs should raise serious concerns," says Dr. Joseph Glenmullen, who teaches psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. "And there's no question they're using them to prop people up in difficult circumstances."

The trickle of new drugs became a flood after the invasion of Iraq in 2003....

In Iraq, you see the doctor only once or twice, but you continue to get drugs constantly." LeJeune says the medications — combined with the war's other stressors — created unfit soldiers. "There were more than a few convoys going out in a total daze."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1812055-1,00.html



These drugs are a menace and a threat to society, (we're in the middle of a "drug war" don't forget) and the fact that there is a connection between these anti depressant drugs and violent behavior, suicide and every school shooting except one and it is not discussed in the media is a crime against society. Hopefully one day prosecutions can begin.
 
And how MANY folks are taking antidepressants? Antidepressants do NOT put folks in a daze. I looked it up, over 27 million and there are less than 5000 reports of bad outcomes.

One of the problems is that our troops never really 'leave home'. With email and Skype they have the same collection of family worries that they would have if they were a clerk at Office Depot, instead of a clerk at a depot in a war zone. Many of them are Reservists, that when they signed up, never expected to be in a war zone. Lots of reasons and I doubt that meds can be blamed.
 
No they don't ROUTINELY cause this kind of violence. Stop that.

Please see: http://ssristories.com/index.php

"stop that"? I don't think so. Every time someone suggests that, it motivates me more.

It's shocking that people wouldn't want to investigate the obvious link.

If every school shooter was taking LSD do you think people would talk about it?

These SSRI's have become a religion to some. And a Cash Cow to pharma companies that *routinely* lie, cheat and bribe their way around the world.

Eli Lilly to settle US SEC bribery case
12/21/2012 Reuters

US drugmaker Eli Lilly and Co agreed on Thursday to pay $29 million to settle civil charges that its subsidiaries made improper payments to foreign government officials to win business in Russia, Brazil, China and Poland.

Lilly's settlement with the US Securities and Exchange Commission represents part of a broader bribery crackdown on the pharmaceutical industry by US criminal and civil authorities as they continue to probe corruption.- more
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/20/us-elililly-sec-idUSBRE8BJ12920121220

*******************
Through its "Viva Zyprexa" campaign, Lilly allegedly instructed its sales force to recommend that primary care physicians prescribe Zyprexa to adults suffering symptoms such as agitation, aggression, hostility, mood or sleep disturbances, or depression. In addition to these uses being off label, primary care physicians rarely manage the antipsychotic medications of patients treated for schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, the uses for which Zyprexa is actually approved....more
http://commonlaw.findlaw.com/2009/0...ent-drug-maker-to-pay-record-142-billion.html

***********************
Illegal Promotion: Criminal information alleged that Zyprexa was promoted (1999-2003) in nursing homes and assisted-living facilities for the treatment of disorders such as dementia, Alzheimer's dementia, depression, anxiety, and sleep problems, and behavioral symptoms such as agitation, aggression, and hostility...more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olanzapine


Please don't tell me to "stop that". Thanks.
 
And how MANY folks are taking antidepressants? Antidepressants do NOT put folks in a daze. I looked it up, over 27 million and there are less than 5000 reports of bad outcomes.

One of the problems is that our troops never really 'leave home'. With email and Skype they have the same collection of family worries that they would have if they were a clerk at Office Depot, instead of a clerk at a depot in a war zone. Many of them are Reservists, that when they signed up, never expected to be in a war zone. Lots of reasons and I doubt that meds can be blamed.

Why do you think that these poisons come with a FEDERALLY MANDATED warning of suicidal and violent behaviors?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxed_warning

In the United States, a boxed warning (also sometimes called a black box warning) is a type of alert that appears on the package insert for certain prescription drugs. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) can require a pharmaceutical company to place a boxed warning on the labeling of a prescription drug, or in literature describing it. It is the strongest warning that the FDA requires, and signifies that medical studies indicate that the drug carries a significant risk of serious or even life-threatening adverse effects.[1] [2]


blackboxwarning.gif

This cute little chunk of words is MANDATED by the Feds to appear with EVERY SINGLE prescription of SSRI drugs.

Why?

Could it be that they know something you don't?

Some people say they "work". Well would you buy a car from a manufacturer if every 100,000 th car blew up and killed everyone around? Of course not. These drugs are concoctions in a lab (in the middle of a drug war) that haven't been tested for long term (and I mean over 10 years- 10 years is not "long term" unless you have no concept of time) side effects.

There are without a doubt less harmful and better substances to treat these illnesses. But they can't be patented. So Pharma isn't interested.
 
Because of a FEW cases. 27 million folks and less than 5,000 bad reactions. This is not a car blowing up, this is someone that was often already suicidal BEFORE the medication acting on those thoughts.

Aspirin has negative side effects, so does NOT taking it. The warning is there so that folks will still be watching for the effects.

I will keep taking mine.
 
I know a lot of folks are impressed with him, I am not. He has made some good points, but often he seems more into promoting Michael Moore, than finding out the FACTS. He starts with a premiss and then picks the information to support it.

BTW, I am fairly liberal, but he starts off biased.

Columbine happened because one of the boys was a Sociopath, he was NOT a 'decent' kid. have you read any of Klebal's journals ? That young man had problems.

Tens of thousands of teens are on anti depressants and they don't shoot up schools. DUH
 
Please see: http://ssristories.com/index.php

"stop that"? I don't think so. Every time someone suggests that, it motivates me more.

I'm sorry,when someone is misinformed and clearly has some type of agenda I say stop that. Perhaps you or someone you personally know had a bad side effect from an SSRI, they are life savers in more cases than they have negative side effects. I'm sure you can cite statistics that many people are harmed by aspirin, it doesn't make it a bad drug. Do you even know how SSRIs work?

It's shocking that people wouldn't want to investigate the obvious link.

If every school shooter was taking LSD do you think people would talk about it?

Only because it would be a symptom of the shooters illegal drug behavior. Would you talk about it if ever school shooter was taking insulin? Aspirin? Every school shooter has been male. Want to discuss THAT fact?
 
Because of a FEW cases. 27 million folks and less than 5,000 bad reactions. This is not a car blowing up, this is someone that was often already suicidal BEFORE the medication acting on those thoughts.

Aspirin has negative side effects, so does NOT taking it. The warning is there so that folks will still be watching for the effects.

I will keep taking mine.

People seem to forget that many take SSRIs because they are suicidal or already have a condition which may lead to suicide. Not all medicines work for everyone. People should also be monitored. Some will ot complain but will continue to take the drugs because they're prescribed. I took Zoloft for a few years because of problems during perimopause which included depression. I was first given Paxil, after taking 1 I was jittery and felt very antsy (which, by the way, is also how I feel when I take certain antibiotics, maybe xenon would like to do away with them also). I never took another and switched to Zoloft which was a lifesaver.
 
Hi again, kids. :)

Let me attempt to address several points brought up since my last post.

As we all know the investigation report lists off several points in a row, all apparently confirming their foregone conclusion. I am taking the position of counselor for the defense, a right of any citizen in the USA, and in this case, I'm defending the reputation of "The Accused", since his wife is unwilling to and his kids are unable to.

Now...

You say Marshall is NOT being prosecuted??? Are you kidding? He's already been found guilty in the court of media justice and given the death penalty. If this investigation had been handled properly there'd be a chance in hell of finding who actually killed them all IF it turns out he was innocent.

So far we have discovered that the mentally ill drug crazed madman kept his pot out of reach from the kids, who had been drinking alcohol that night -- Phillip Marshall had no blood alcohol in his toxicology results.

So then, you folks say he was mentally ill? Where did that theory come from and what is the 'evidence' cited by the sheriffs to shore up that part of their foregone conclusion that the dad killed the kids.

Some antidepressants are prescribed as pain blockers. And as it turns out these antidepressants are very often prescribed for back pain.

What now?

Is anyone that takes antidepressants for chronic pain now a psycho killer? If this is the case, you'd be better off hooked on oxycodone and morphine. At least then you won't get tossed into the media shark tank as top suspect in the case of ANY homicide.

WARNING: Do not accept 'antidepressants' as pain blockers or you could get mislabeled as being mentally ill, as diagnosed by the psychiatric dufusses at the sheriffs' dept.

Excerpt:
Phillip Marshal's blood sample contained .08 mg/L hydrocodone (pain reliever/narcotic), .02 mg/L morphine (pain reliever/narcotic), and .80 mg/L hydroxybupropion (anti-depressant).

However we do not know specifically what this drug was prescribed for other than the sheriffs' theory that it was for a "bipolar disorder" which is NOT supported by the evidence which we'll see in future 'analyses' of the sheriffs' investigation,

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion
----
Initially researched and marketed as an antidepressant, bupropion was subsequently found to be effective as a smoking cessation aid. With over 20 million retail prescriptions in 2007, it was the fourth-most prescribed antidepressant in the United States retail market after sertraline, escitalopram, and fluoxetine.
<snip>
The mechanism may improve the negative mood associated with methamphetamine withdrawal. Though it has demonstrated no effectiveness in the treatment of cocaine dependence, there is weak evidence that it may be useful in methamphetamine dependence.

[Is it possible Phillip Marshall had been attempting to quit smoking? Was he getting off of meth? Some other similar drug?]

In contrast to many other antidepressants, bupropion does not cause weight gain or sexual dysfunction; in most studies, groups placed on bupropion showed statistically significant increases in sexual functioning (libido), and mild to moderate weight loss.
<snip>
Although [attention deficit hyperactivity disorder] (ADHD) is not an approved indication, bupropion was found to be effective for adult ADHD [emphasis mine, -rs]

[Is it possible Phillip Marshall's mental illness was adult ADHD?]

Although attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is not an approved indication, bupropion was found to be effective for adult ADHD.
----

The first mention of Marshall having a "biploar disorder" is in the sheriffs' report. Both wives had mentioned his temper in interviews, but neither of them mentioned a bipolar disorder.

As we shall soon see, this "diagnosis" may have been cooked up or a misinterpretation of a 'record' from the airline or somewhere else about an event when he had been temporarily suspended as a pilot for a period of time.

The word 'medical' is apparently carefully omitted from that citation, so we don't know what kind of 'record' that alleged "diagnosis" came from.

Here's the snip from the investigation report.

----
According to records obtained, Marshall was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Additionally, the reports stated that he suffered periods of depression and mania, which led to his dismissal, or "grounding," as a pilot in September 2006.
----

Careful reading shows that this paragraph is NOT referring to "medical records". What's more is that even the medical records may have been misread. For example: Is it fathomable that a legitimate medical record could state that a man has "some kind of mental illness"?

Or is that the favored interpretation of a who-knows-what kind of record.

As it also turns out, it's fortunate that the bodies were found only two days after they probably died ("the official time of death" being an aburd hypothesis -- they did NOT die Saturday afternoon when the bodies were found but almost certainly died the previous Thursday night.)

Another excerpt from the wikipedia article above:
----
Bupropion may be quantitated in blood, plasma or serum to monitor therapeutic use, confirm a diagnosis of poisoning or assist in a medicolegal death investigation. The drug is unstable in biological fluids at room temperature and therefore specimens should be maintained at the coldest possible temperature prior to analysis.
----

"At the coldest possible temperature", it says.

It decomposes if not refrigerated. So then what was the real level of this drug in Phillip Marshall's blood? It could have been much much MUCH higher! And with no realistic time of death determined by the sheriffs or coroner, there'd be no way to estimate the real level from the half-life of the rate of degradation.

Just another indication of the incompetence of the sheriffs and the coroner in handling of the evidence?

How many indications are there? And the big question is why did they do such a crappy job and then AFTER the public became aware of it, why did the go to so much effort to support their "official theory", like their "official time of death" almost certainly being incorrect by two days.

The time of death was obviously NOT the time when the sheriffs discovered the bodies. And now we see another reason why this seemingly unimportant "time of death" thing is CRITICAL. How else might anyone know how many pounds of the stuff, the 'antidepressant' was really in Phillip Marshall's blood.
 
Mick, I'm still catching up here, but I had a thought.

Would there or would there not be a 'void' in the spatter behind the gun in light of the picture we both have seen of a similar kind of gunshot wound?

If we considered the entry wound as a kind of light source, what would the shadow look like and is it remotely possible that a 4th and 5th person could be concealed in that "void" in the spatter pattern the sheriffs so carefully analyzed?

;-)

Thanks for the photo (not of Marshall but very illuminating in terms of forensics).
 
You clearly fancy yourself an amateur attorney. If this was a court though I would be able to make objections and there is plenty to object about in your ramble. The first objection would be that you are offering testimony and not acting as an attorney. The judge would I feel confident rule in favor of my objection and instruct you to refrain from this type of behavior.

That aside here is one problem in what you say that jumps right out as you offering unsupported statements.

Hi again, kids. :)
Some antidepressants are prescribed as pain blockers. And as it turns out these antidepressants are very often prescribed for back pain.

What now?

What now is simple you need to support this statement. Tell us what antidepressants are prescribed as pain blockers. Do not simply toss out these sort of unsupported statements it weakens your argument.

Bupropion, similarly to other antidepressants, is not efficacious in chronic low back pain.[66][67]
 
You clearly fancy yourself an amateur attorney. If this was a court though I would be able to make objections and there is plenty to object about in your ramble. The first objection would be that you are offering testimony and not acting as an attorney. The judge would I feel confident rule in favor of my objection and instruct you to refrain from this type of behavior.

That aside here is one problem in what you say that jumps right out as you offering unsupported statements.



What now is simple you need to support this statement. Tell us what antidepressants are prescribed as pain blockers. Do not simply toss out these sort of unsupported statements it weakens your argument.

Bupropion, similarly to other antidepressants, is not efficacious in chronic low back pain.[66][67]

No. The US Constitution makes no stipulation as to whether a person's counsel for the defense needs to be a member of the bar. Only that they are guaranteed a defense.

As to the pain blocker and antidepressant connection, that's common knowledge. I will not "go fetch" for you. AND it's a non-issue. The antidepressant Marshall was taking was not efficacious as a pain blocker. The point here is that the "smart shoppers" in America would believe ANYONE taking an antidepressant as a pain blocker COULD BE A MANIACAL MURDERER.

Stigma and Prejudice.

Not so smart after all.

Thanks for the professional quality argument about a non-issue.
 
Note: The antidepressant Phillip Marshall was taking was "atypical". See the wikipedia link in the post a couple of messages back.

[Also, it's not an SSRI, as was posted by Xenon a while back, I think it was.]
 
Newcomers. Parts 1 and 2 of my analysis of the sheriffs' investigation is on page 5 "point by point".

Stay tuned for Part 3. (We're only 2/3rds of the way through the analysis of the alleged "investigation".)

Corrections to part 1 and 2.

I can't edit my analysis of the blood spatter/splatter pattern anymore but the "impression" is more correctly a "burn mark" and I would have retracted the part about not being able to tell the position the gun was held in ("inverted") because it is indeed possible to tell the orientation of that type of gun from the burn marks.

Also, I'd have raised an additional question about the spatter pattern. The gun being held to the head would have created not just a "void" in the splatter, but a huge void of approximately 180 degrees on the side the gun was on. Either the sheriffs' hearsay evidence about the "impression" of the gun or their hearsay evidence about the spatter pattern and 'voids' is wrong.

And with no objective photographic evidence (as far as we know) there is no way to tell which of their theories is wrong.
 
ummmm still waiting on the evidence that this county's law enforcement deserves the accusations leveled at them. I have seen nothing that states they went outside of professional SOP. Additionally where is the evidence of a fourth person or more? Where is there evidence of struggle OR forced entry, or was this the work of elite ninjas wholeave no footprints, fibers etc.? Lastly you cannot be sentenced to death after being clinically dead for several days. That is beyond redundant.
 
Ballistics/forensics.

This is from a fairly knowledgeable ammature (not a professional), and this is only an opinion, but it's much better than I'd come up with myself.

My question was:
I need some more forensics help in the Phillip Marshal case.

92 grain EMB-Expansion Mono-Block

Fired at point blank into the temple, would this round go through the head and into a couch where it could be retrieved in one piece.

Best guess is ok. Just an opinion will do. There were three victims, same range, point of entry for two was the temple, and one was 'the left side of the head'. Same ammo in all cases.


Excerpt from answer:
this is a very high velocity (1300 fps? maybe more) solid copper round. It is light, 92 instead of 124 or 147 grains. It expands from .355 to approximately double that in terminal ballistics. It has a solid core with an expanding set of 'fingers'. It seems to retain its mass well. In direct testing with water jugs, it was captured in the third gallon jug filled with water. It would produce explosive effects on a head at close range-- lots of energy-- one half the mass times the velocity squared. So brain material would spew out the eyes, etc. Very ugly wounds, regardless.

This does not speak to what happens when it has to go through a (thin part) of the skull first, then, expanded and depleted of energy, through another thin part of the skull.



I would bet that it would probably exit. But it's a guess. I would have to see it tested on a goat carcass, or something like it. This is just a guess. Water is not a good medium to reproduce brain tissue, it should be ballistic gelatin-- jello made to twice recipe density. Melons are ok for brain density, not for skull resistance to penetration.



I think the Model 19 is a full length barrel. Shorter barrel would produce lower muzzle velocity. This cannot be a definitive answer until I saw it tested on a skull.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxabFgWmm64


----
End of excerpt.
Content from External Source
Nobody said the photos need to be made public. But the photos need to be "reviewed" by an independent body to assure that we retain checks and balances in this republic. Without such safeguards, power assuredly WILL corrupt.

Standing militia. Executive overreach. What was Jefferson talking about when he talked about "eternal vigilance"?
 
ummmm still waiting on the evidence that this county's law enforcement deserves the accusations leveled at them.

<snip>

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not even accusing the CIA.

Honor is absolutely due to those who we entrust with enforcing the laws of the land and assuring "domestic tranquility". But when the process is so flawed, so ridiculous, so bifurcated (multiple versions of "theories" such as the time of death), that it's impossible to believe the nonsense, it behooves anyone who's interested in maintaining the honor of law enforcement (the executive branch, and UNDER the CIA) that we hold their feet to the fire when they think they have license to....

Well...

Like gods, to do anything they goddam see fit to do without question due to the utterly lame-ass sycophants running screen for them, the objectively dismal media propaganda, and those acting like they are reasonable skeptics, but who demonstrate a blind spot that appears to consume half the universe in darkness.

You are apparently confused about who is the "accused" in this matter.

He's an airline pilot with 20,000 hours of flying time in the kind of airplane he said could NOT have been used to hit the Pentagon.

Find "11.2 Gs Pentagon" on the net.

That's not Marshall's theory. He tried to hit the Pentagon in a flight simulator and couldn't hit it until his fourth try. He didn't even do the Gs calculation which would have made him pass out and cause the plane to fall apart.

The "accused" is Phillip Marshall.

I am counsel for his defense.
 
Also, I'd have raised an additional question about the spatter pattern. The gun being held to the head would have created not just a "void" in the splatter, but a huge void of approximately 180 degrees on the side the gun was on. Either the sheriffs' hearsay evidence about the "impression" of the gun or their hearsay evidence about the spatter pattern and 'voids' is wrong.

And with no objective photographic evidence (as far as we know) there is no way to tell which of their theories is wrong.

I doubt that any individual could continue to press the weapon to their temple after the bullet enters their brain. Recoil alone would dislodge the weapon and allow for a blood splatter pattern to develop, some of it should be on the weapon. Consistent with other information you have posted that the weapon was sent for further fingerprinting and possible DNA analysis, there could be blood splatter on the weapon itself, kudos to the police for realizing that and pursuing this additional evidence.
 
No. The US Constitution makes no stipulation as to whether a person's counsel for the defense needs to be a member of the bar. Only that they are guaranteed a defense.

Yes but incompetent representation has been used as grounds for granting a retrial.
 
I doubt that any individual could continue to press the weapon to their temple after the bullet enters their brain. Recoil alone would dislodge the weapon and allow for a blood splatter pattern to develop, some of it should be on the weapon. Consistent with other information you have posted that the weapon was sent for further fingerprinting and possible DNA analysis, there could be blood splatter on the weapon itself, kudos to the police for realizing that and pursuing this additional evidence.

What you "doubt" is of no consequence.

If you have proof, post it. If you have a logical argument state it. Spatter on the weapon is the kind of evidence we'd expect from the sheriffs as it would provide zero insight into whether or not others were present (shown as 'voids' in the spatter) which is as yet still "hearsay" from the sheriffs because it appears nobody has reviewed any photographic or other "objective" evidence to validate their retroactively self-supporting "evidence" which was produced two MONTHS after they determined definitively that Phillip Marshall was the shooter.

Forgive me for not reposting the link to the sheriff's docs.

No... I'll do it. Feb 2, the bodies were found. Feb 3 they posted their "media release".

Feb 4, they posted an update/correction which did NOT include retraction of their hastily made conclusion which where all drawn before the most recent investigation results.

http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us

Hit press releases, and go into the 2013 folder.

Dates of the first two releases are Feb 3, 4, if memory serves.
 
rainbowsally has been banned for 24 hours, a time out for becoming impolite.

The thread will still be here tomorrow. Take the time to make your argument as concise and accurate as possible.

There's lots of info on the net about blood spatter, I suggest you review it.

http://hemospat.com/
http://science.discovery.com/tv-sho...deos/discoveries-this-week-blood-splatter.htm

https://www.ameslab.gov/mfrc/bpa_videos
https://www.mfrc.ameslab.gov/files/index.php?folder=Qmxvb2RsZXR0aW5nIE1lY2hhbmlzbSBWaWRlb3M=
 
He's an airline pilot with 20,000 hours of flying time in the kind of airplane he said could NOT have been used to hit the Pentagon.

That's not Marshall's theory. He tried to hit the Pentagon in a flight simulator and couldn't hit it until his fourth try. He didn't even do the Gs calculation which would have made him pass out and cause the plane to fall apart.

As long as we're correcting each other...:D -- Marshall DID think a 757 hit the pentagon. IIRC a clear quote exists in the coast2coast radio segments but I don't have time to search that now- but here's a few quotes from his tumbler blog http://thebigbamboozle.tumblr.com/


...The conspiracy theory of KSM in the 911 Commission’s report is as unlikely as the missile into the Pentagon theory.

...American 77, a Boeing 757, departed from Washington Dulles for Los Angeles and was hijacked 33 minutes after takeoff, reversed course, and impacted the Pentagon 40 minutes later without meeting any interference.

...The snapshot at 8:46 shows AA11 about to hit the north tower and, in perfect synchrony, the attackers storming the cockpit of UA175. AA77 — the Pentagon plane — was heading west at cruise altitude, moving away from its target at 500 mph, and still five minutes from takeover


I think I remember from C2C him saying that his point with trying the simulator was to prove that the hijackers had to have had training- which is what made Phil's research fairly unique, as far as I'm concerned because I've not heard anyone else say they had documented proof of where the hijackers were trained. And by the way, that documented proof would be interesting to see/ have/ know about.

Glad you joined, every skeptic counts! And thanks for the updates.
 
I will try again. That specific county in which the crime occurred. What have they done to warrant the mistrust you give. Them specifically. As per an earlier post what are the flaws in methodology or instances of contamination. Has a judge ever thrown out these techs' evidence in a trial. Have any of the people involved in the case been reprimanded for evidence tampering.
Additionally where is there evidence of struggle or forced entry or another person other than the three dead people. A nonanswer to these questions just proves a lack of evidence on your part.
Lastly the absence of any contradictory evidence from you IS the clear proof of an absence of evidence. Just tell me are you or are you not a Truther. That would go a long way to proving your bias in this matter.
ps Do not dissemble. This is a forthright set of questions. I dare say if you could not answer these a judge would throw out your whole line of questioning.
 
Michael Moore is an idiot who has found his own money making niche. And that's coming from a liberal.

But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Seriously, do you not think he might have some important insights into school shooters? He did write, produce and direct Bowling for Columbine after all.

Just another case of selective agreement. Do you agree with his gun control agenda? Yet not his argument for *INVESTIGATING* the clear and present link *(they come with a warning) between these anti depressants and violent behavior?

Here's for those that missed it upthread:

http://ssristories.com/index.php

Sourced sortable database with original news article. Anyone that looks at that with an open mind should see that the link needs investigating. After all, if there's no problem, what's the problem?
 
Here's for those that missed it upthread:

http://ssristories.com/index.php

Sourced sortable database with original news article. Anyone that looks at that with an open mind should see that the link needs investigating. After all, if there's no problem, what's the problem?

Correlation is not causation. Assuming there actually is a correlation, then the questions here is which of the following is going on:

A) Do people who take SSRIs become more likely to shoot up schools
or
B) Do people who are likely to shoot up schools end up taking SSRIs
 
I think the SSRIs is another red herring, like the one that we hear a lot of of, violent video games.

I find it more interesting that these shootings tend to take place in middle to upper income areas, rather than in the inner city.
 
rainbowsally has been banned for 24 hours, a time out for becoming impolite.

The thread will still be here tomorrow. Take the time to make your argument as concise and accurate as possible.

There's lots of info on the net about blood spatter, I suggest you review it.

http://hemospat.com/
http://science.discovery.com/tv-sho...deos/discoveries-this-week-blood-splatter.htm

https://www.ameslab.gov/mfrc/bpa_videos
https://www.mfrc.ameslab.gov/files/index.php?folder=Qmxvb2RsZXR0aW5nIE1lY2hhbmlzbSBWaWRlb3M=

Found this additional information if anyone is interested. Be advised it contains graphic images.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/25011942/1660865779/name/BLOOD+SPATTER+PATTERNS.pdf
 
Correlation is not causation. Assuming there actually is a correlation, then the questions here is which of the following is going on:
A) Do people who take SSRIs become more likely to shoot up schools
or
B) Do people who are likely to shoot up schools end up taking SSRIs
Why do you think the Feds mandate a warning for antidepressants that says suicidal and violent behavior is a known risk?

If every school shooter in the last 25 years was on LSD do you think the media and the public would discuss it?(when was the first SSRI introduced? 1987) Don't forget, we're in the middle of a "Drug War" (to eliminate the competition with patented drugs).

I think it would be discussed. Not only would it be discussed, it would be drilled into the citizens on an hourly basis.

Because that is how policy is made in the USA circa 2013
 
I just checked the bottles of OTC medicines I have on my desk, 2 pain relievers, 2 types of allergy pills and a tube o antibiotic ointment and a jar of VapoRub, every ONE of them has more warning than anything else. Heck irons come with a warning label, even a box of ceramic tile has a warning.

A VERY few folks have a negative reaction, but millions do NOT and they benefit.

Mick posed some questions and you didn't answer them.

All the shooters were male, all played violent video games, all were middle or upper middle class, all were in rural or suburban schools, all had access to guns, all had heard about other school shooting

When you are analyzing the cause, you look at ALL the factors, not ONE.

Millions of young males, take SSRIs, play violent video games and such and THEY don't shoot up their schools.

You seem to be implying that if heroin and morphine and ecstasy and meth and pot and all the others were legal that we wouldn't need any mental health drugs? Most of those drugs do not help mental health issues. some that do, like Meth are useful to those that need it and dangerous to others. I take Adderal, and it does not wake me up, if I am tired, I can take it and go to sleep in 30 min. I have ADD and I need it. others don't.

I have noticed that a lot of the CTers are also pro drugs. I wonder if someone checked, if they would find a history of drug use, especially meth use among them. Makes more sense than blaming SSRIs for school shootings. Paranoia is a known side effect of Meth use.
 
Hey rainbow, why are taking this interest in Philip's case? At first I thought it was because you knew him or the family, but I must have read wrong.
Have you taken up this cause for other cases of presumed murder-suicides?
It's the 9-11 thing isn't it?
 
But how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Seriously, do you not think he might have some important insights into school shooters? He did write, produce and direct Bowling for Columbine after all.

Just another case of selective agreement. Do you agree with his gun control agenda? Yet not his argument for *INVESTIGATING* the clear and present link *(they come with a warning) between these anti depressants and violent behavior?

Here's for those that missed it upthread:

http://ssristories.com/index.php

Sourced sortable database with original news article. Anyone that looks at that with an open mind should see that the link needs investigating. After all, if there's no problem, what's the problem?


Michael Moore is nowhere on my radar. I didn't see Bowling for Columbine, nor do I care to. He is as irrelevant as Rush Limbaugh is on the other side.

I think the SSRIs have been investigated. As Mick points out under your original post:

"Correlation is not causation. Assuming there actually is a correlation, then the questions here is which of the following is going on:

A) Do people who take SSRIs become more likely to shoot up schools
or
B) Do people who are likely to shoot up schools end up taking SSRIs"



 
Hey rainbow, why are taking this interest in Philip's case? At first I thought it was because you knew him or the family, but I must have read wrong.
Have you taken up this cause for other cases of presumed murder-suicides?
It's the 9-11 thing isn't it?

No, it's just the Constitution thing and an unbelievably stupid "investigation" enabled by sleepy watchdog media that got me started.

Never did it before.
 
You make a good point.

Correlation is not causation. Assuming there actually is a correlation, then the questions here is which of the following is going on:

A) Do people who take SSRIs become more likely to shoot up schools
or
B) Do people who are likely to shoot up schools end up taking SSRIs

And another writer here almost hit the nail on the head too (in the context of this Phillip Marshall case).

But I'd put it this way.

Since all of the killers we've heard about in the news lately are men, it could be said that being a man increases likelihood of the person committing murder or even "causes almost all murders".

Then, could it also be said that virtually 100% of all men are murderers?

That's called "profiling" and it's a very sloppy way to treat statistics. It's syllogism, it's bogus logic when reinterpreted in that way.

Hopefully the analogy with antidepressant users will be clear.

The question in this forum is not about whether antidepressants can cause someone to go nutty (though it's a VERY important question in other context). The question is only whether Phillip Marshall pulled the trigger to kill himself and his two kids.

And there's plenty of room to doubt the official theory, as of day-one.

I just rechecked the date on the first sheriffs' press release, and it was the same day the bodies were found. I had misremembered the date because it's so astounding. The title is telling.

Title: "Man Shoots Children, then Himself in a Murder-Suicide"

They had already concluded "the truther" must have done it (apparently) before ANY investigation had been done. Certainly not much of one.

The bodies were found that afternoon at 3 pm. Dunno when the press release was issued, but probably before 5 pm and certainly before midnight.

Since we were not there when the event occurred, we can only attempt to piece together legitimate pieces of the puzzle, such as anger issues, violence, how he got along with people, drug or alcohol problems he or his kids may have had (as this pertains to custody and parenting issues), any reports of recent erratic behavior, etc. But we need to also include how he treated his kids, what he did for a living, and the big one: Who might have had a motive to kill him AND his kids (witnesses or targets?) but not to kill his wife.

Other people's possible motives was not even considered by the sheriffs. The case was closed (in their opinion) hours after the bodies were found.

Another illogical argument going around in this forum is that somehow "truthers" are all liars. Or worse, they are all crazed madmen who can easily believed could kill their kids at the drop of a hat.

That is simply blatant prejudice and to my way of thinking is very offensive since the accused has NEVER received a fair trial.

Because he's already dead.

Problem solved? For him it is, but for those who remain... what do you think? Should we allow this kind of sloppy police work and media bias go unchallenged?

Stay tuned. Part 3 of the "point by point" analysis is coming up soon.
 
The sheriff's report point by point (part 3)
[parts 1 and 2 are on page 5, find "point by point"]

The Grand Finale: "Take one tablet at bedtime for SOME SORT OF MENTAL ILLNESS" -- Presumed physicians instructions to patient.

We are now in part 3 the wrap up of my analysis of the sheriffs' most recent press release on the so called "investigation" of the Phillip Marshall murders, or as the sheriffs have stated before even doing the investigation, the "murder-suicide", as they had "ruled out" anyone from outside the home coming in, though some of the doors were found to have been unlocked.

The questionable points made resume here.

re. According to records obtained, Marshall was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Additionally, the reports stated that he suffered periods of depression and mania, which led to his dismissal, or "grounding," as a pilot in September 2006.

* Diagnosed by whom? Where were these records from. Do "medical records" usually mention things like reasons for dismissal as a pilot? Then which of these "records" were "medical records" if any of them were, and which were simply "reports" and who were they from? (More below.)

re. A search warrant was served at a local clinic for Phillip Marshall's medical records. The medical records noted that he suffered from chronic back pain, and was prescribed prescription narcotic pain medications for this condition. His medical records suggested that he also suffered from some sort of mental illness, drug dependency, anxiety, and depression.

* The drugs were then legal, as was the marijuana. The "medical records" obtained by warrant from the clinic evidently ONLY showed that he had chronic back pain. They MERELY SUGGESTED that he had "some sort of mental illness". What kind of mental illness? That doesn't sound like much of a "medical report". That sounds like the sheriffs have taken it upon themselves to "diagnose" Phillip Marshall. And if he had a drug dependency, could that be why he was taking the antidepressant? According to wikipedia, that drug (hydroxybupropion) is helpful in quitting smoking and kicking meth. (See below.)

Also, what "local clinic" did they serve with a warrant? There are no clinics in Murphys.

http://www.dexknows.com/local/healt...alth_care_clinics/geo/co-calaveras_county-ca/


re. He was prescribed anti-depression medications for his mental health.

* This is the sheriffs' conclusion. But is it really supported by the evidence? If it was prescribed for mental health, wouldn't the records be more specific than to say "some sort of mental illness". Do doctors often prescribe potentially dangerous antidepressants for "some sort of mental illness"?

What is the recommended dosage for "some sort of mental illness" What would the patients' instructions read like?

re. mid-year 2012 through January 2013 he frequented the medical clinic seeking additional pain medications. Clinic physicians had him sign a pain medication contract, which directed him to take his medications as prescribed, and to not seek medications from other physicians. The medical record indicated that he was to schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist. It is unknown if he ever attended this appointment.

* What were these "additional pain medications" and what were they in addition to? Was the "medication contract" standard for those kinds of drugs or was this an exceptional case? Was the problem that the 'antidepressant' is ineffective as a pain blocker? Anyone with internet and ability to look up that drug would have known that. They would also know that this antidepressent is "atypical", and is usually used in conjunction (see "additional" above) with other antidepressants when prescribed for depression.

What was the problem he was to schedule an appointment with the psychiatrist for? Was it "some sort of mental illness"? Or could it have been adult ADHD (another use for the specific antidepressant Phillip was prescribed). Could ADHD account for all the symptoms noted by his wives, such as the temper problem and the airline that "grounded him" for a while? Was it at their request he seek a psychiatric evaluation?

What date(s) were the records from that recommended he seek psychological or psychiatric help? And what precisely was the reason they recommended that and at whose request, if anyone's?

Would paranoia of sheriffs or other authority figures in the executive branch, which includes the drug smuggling operations of the CIA during the Iran-Contra affair which Phillip Marshall was well aware of and which is common knowledge by now, be called "mental illness"?

re. During the multiple tests the detectives found that it took an average of a total of two seconds to shoot each victim, demonstrating that it was possible to shoot both children prior to one of them waking up.

* The reports state that BOTH childrens appear to have been sleeping when they were shot. Of course one could have been shot before one of them woke up. It's the OTHER that would have woken up, so what exactly does that sentence mean?

Also, if we are to presume that both could have been shot before EITHER of them woke up, how drunk would the kids have had to be to have a two second reaction time? (The kids had been drinking, the dad had not. See part 2 on page 5)

re. Based on interviews, evidence, and other factual information developed during this investigation there appears to be several contributing factors that led to this murdersuicide. Phillip Marshall had been under the care of a doctor for several years and appeared to be battling chronic pain, drug dependency, and mental health troubles.

The prescription drugs that he had been prescribed seem to be very sensitive to dosages, especially when combined with other medications, which was the case with Marshall.

* They say "appeared to be battling chronic pain, drug dependency, and mental health problems" -- of unknown type? This is not very convincing.

Also, one of the interviews the sheriffs conducted was very interesting. The interviewee was apparently guided from her initial feelings about the event to a new conclusion. The person to watch changing her mind is Merita Callaway here. She's a county supervisor who knew Phillip and the kids very well.
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_71f9b8da-6e27-11e2-99e8-001a4bcf887a.html down about 15% of the page)

Were the sheriffs interested in getting her opinion or in shaping it?

re. Research showed that the Food and Drug Administration warned that any abrupt changes in psychotropic medications (such as what Marshall was prescribed) could result in suicide, hostility, or psychosis.

* This misuse of statistics is called "profiling". It's invalid as a logical argument because one could also say that nearly all murders are committed by men and conclude that nearly all men are murderers.

What we need to determine is whether THIS man was acting erratically due to this medication. It doesn't appear that he was from his twitter page. It looks very very consistent right up to the night he and the kids probably died.

https://twitter.com/thebigbamboozle

I say only "probably died" because the evidence suggests very strongly that the coroner failed to determine when they did die, or had an actual disinterest in determining the times of death, for some unfathomable reason.

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/More-murder-suicide-details 25% down the page.

But to determine the amount of the antidepressant in his blood, the question comes back to the time of death, which the sheriffs told the union democrat would officially be Saturday afternoon at 3 in the afternoon.

The drug being blamed for making Marshall insane breaks down quickly and the samples need to be kept "as cold as possible" for reliable toxicology results. Even so, there was ten times more of this substance in the blood sample than the either oxycodone and morphine combined. How much of the drug had he taken if he had died on Thursday night (as evidenced by when the kids stopped responding to text messages and missing school on Friday) and the drug decomposed for two days before the samples were taken for testing?

See the wikipedia article on hydroxybupropion re. "should be maintained at the coldest possible temperature prior to analysis" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion down about 22% of the page

re. There was no evidence to support a theory that anyone else could have committed this crime, or that any other persons were present at the time of the shootings. Macaila and Alex Marshall both appeared to be sleeping at the time they were shot, indicating no signs of a struggle with a possible intruder. There was no evidence of a struggle with Phillip Marshall, and no signs of forced entry into the home. Various items of value were still present inside the home, and no evidence of any additional weapons was found. Lastly, there was no evidence that Phillip Marshall or his children were moved or repositioned after the shooting, which would indicate an altered crime scene.

* The problem is that there is no evidence at all. It's all hearsay. The DoJ is doing DNA testing, but the sheriffs apparently destroyed the evidence before it could be photographed to support any of their "lone gunman on drugs with 'some sort of mental illness'" theory.

Since the front door was not locked, and some others were unlocked as well, "forced entry" is a non-issue. If someone came in, they were either invited or came in through one of the unlocked doors. See the sheriffs' investigation report on page 3, "All doors were found closed with some having been left unlocked."

And the kids "both appeared to be sleeping at the time they were shot"? Very unusual.


Epilog

I never even knew the guy. Don't even know anyone that does.

But even the dead guy deserves a fair trial. See the US Constitution, Article 6 re. the right to face their accusers, counsel for his defense, and COMPULSORY PROCESS to obtain witnesses for his defense, including exculpatory medical records, I would think.

Recently, the Santa Barbara View has for some reason removed all their articles about Phillip Marshall. In the one entitled "Phillip Marshall Wrote About Conspiracies, Was He The Victim Of One?", at about 80 percent down the page and three days before Sean Marshall/Plummer had an interview with the Union Democrat, a person with the screen name of "Ann" had commented:
----
Ann February 19, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

I know the crew who flew his wife home — they were called by the airline and ordered not to speak to her. Why? Very unusual.
---- end
 
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