Cuba Rejects Kidnappers

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...cies-were-volatile-mix-for-joshua-and/2137007
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http://tbo.com/news/timeline-of-the-hakken-kidnapping-case-b82476497z1
 
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TWCobra

Senior Member.
ranting about mind control and secret government plots to poison them — in a downward slide that was likely accelerated by heavy marijuana use

Peter Kusznir exhibits very similar characteristics. He admitted publicly his own drug use. It is difficult to not draw conclusions.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Mentally ill people are going to latch onto something. The question is if it's possible to have a world where everything is so reasonable that there's nothing for them to feel suspicious about. I think not.

You don't want to portray "chemtraillers are all crazy", because there's a whole spectrum of people out there.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
I think "targeted individual" is closer to the point with this couple. Amazing that they both have the same pathology.
 
J

Joe

Guest
How are they Right wing conspiracies ? Oh I see ,
SPLC is a danger to the American public .haarp and chemtrails is not a right wing conspiracy , that would be The birther thing :) those people were just paranoid stoners
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
The SPLC is not a danger to the American public unless maybe someone is in the KKK. Chemtrails and HAARP tend to be shared conspiracies, by the extreme right wingers and libertarians. I see little mention of them on liberal sites, their conspiracies tend to run to big oil, big pharma, big ag and a general dislike of banks (but without the illuminati crap in the way). Environmental groups seem to be all over the place in which conspiracies they favor.
 
J

Joe

Guest
The SPLC is not a danger to the American public unless maybe someone is in the KKK. Chemtrails and HAARP tend to be shared conspiracies, by the extreme right wingers and libertarians. I see little mention of them on liberal sites, their conspiracies tend to run to big oil, big pharma, big ag and a general dislike of banks (but without the illuminati crap in the way). Environmental groups seem to be all over the place in which conspiracies they favor.
Really the chick filet shooter would tell me otherwise ? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...-a-sandwiches-ammo-backpack-article-1.1137935 when you put people on a hate list such as David Barton and the Family Research Council . When you label the New Black Panther party as a right wing hate group . No most are libertarians like most of us according to the test ,
 

Gavriel

Member
Are they really ill? Sometimes it's just a case of bad influences + lack of knowledge + wrong time. There are suicide bombers exploding themselves all the time in the Middle East, yet no one seems to call them mentally ill.
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
I see you inferring that the SPLC should be on a hate list? I have seen that from others on the far right. That story has nothing to do with the SPLC.

Did you condemn the hit lists for abortion doctors and providers?

Have you ever looked at their list of hate groups? I would expect that you would agree with them about some, like the Nation of Islam and the New Black Panthers.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Joe, what yu are doing is a "straw man", picking out something you don't like which is minor to the story. These two criminals went to Cuba seeking asylum saying they had discovered chemtrails. From all accounts, and their own actions, they were a bit 'off'. That is the story here, not if you do/don't like one of the several people interviewed. The trial might be interesting, will you be going?
 
J

Joe

Guest
Joe, what yu are doing is a "straw man", picking out something you don't like which is minor to the story. These two criminals went to Cuba seeking asylum saying they had discovered chemtrails. From all accounts, and their own actions, they were a bit 'off'. That is the story here, not if you do/don't like one of the several people interviewed. The trial might be interesting, will you be going?
Yes its a local story and the chemtrail was just an excuse because they are NutZ . Everything From the SPLC is far right wing . Roseann Barr is anything but shes not right wing . Why that as well as the chemtrail angle was added to the story ? Other then being wacko Stoners kidnapping their own kid then heading to a Communist country it really has nothing to do with chemtrails just paranoid delusion .
Most right wingers as I dont like Adam Kokesh he is an Organizing For America supporter and a RT TROLL . i see the story made it rounds on Huff Po and alike . Just a Govenment plot to paint right wingers and conspiracies as wackos . As with Princess DI another conspiracy that might become FACT ! And Jay takes the bait and runs with it
 
J

Joe

Guest
Not to take it further off topic, but I'd say it's more of a "red herring". :D
I see you inferring that the SPLC should be on a hate list? I have seen that from others on the far right. That story has nothing to do with the SPLC.

Did you condemn the hit lists for abortion doctors and providers?

Have you ever looked at their list of hate groups? I would expect that you would agree with them about some, like the Nation of Islam and the New Black Panthers.
Yes like david Barton . He is such a threat to the LBGT community http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/david-barton . The story as it is written has everything to do with the SPLC how else would it have gotten the Title ? This is Old News why is it back ? what does losing your kids and taking them away have to do with Chemtrails ? or The Right Wing ? Nothing ! What about the attempted massacre because of the SPLC ? http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...ican-family-association-the-demonization-of-l Hate groups maybe but they arent killing people . Dont see the Crips or the Bloods on the list ? Im sick of this blame the right bull crap . The SPLC is Just a arm of the democratic party .
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Why that as well as the chemtrail angle was added to the story ? Other then being wacko Stoners kidnapping their own kid then heading to a Communist country it really has nothing to do with chemtrails just paranoid delusion .

Joe, chemtrails came into the story when the 3 page letter to the Cubans was revealed last week in the discovery material. The Haakens told the Cubans a big story including Haarp and chemtrails:

The three-page letter was part of a cache of documents theTampa Bay Times obtained last week after a judge ordered the disclosure of prosecutors' evidence — what attorneys call discovery material — in the Hakkens' criminal case.

The documents chart in unprecedented detail the world view that took the Hakkens from a quiet neighborhood north of MacDill Air Force Base to a cramped boat rocking off the coast of an island autocracy.

Joe said:
This is Old News why is it back ? what does losing your kids and taking them away have to do with Chemtrails ?

See above.

Joe, since you seem to have not read the article, it looks to me like you simply felt threatened by a few sentences quoting someone from SPLC and felt as if they were attacking you personally. If the shoe didn't fit why did you wear it?
 
J

Joe

Guest
Joe, chemtrails came into the story when the 3 page letter to the Cubans was revealed last week in the discovery material. The Haakens told the Cubans a big story including Haarp and chemtrails: So ? thaey are entitled to their paranoid opinion . hwta did they do ? kidnappened their own kid that was taken because of drug charges . Big deal many do the same . But now its all about painting the right wing or anti-government people as dangerous ? Its a non story hype by the media .





See above.

Joe, since you seem to have not read the article, it looks to me like you simply felt threatened by a few sentences quoting someone from SPLC and felt as if they were attacking you personally. If the shoe didn't fit why did you wear it?
no i read the article and the headline was the kicker . Alex Jones is a libertarian as are most on this site or at least what he says . Soi what the point of the letter ? they were looking for an excuse for cuba to take them with their children . Most would do the same . They were targeted because they are antigovernment Period ! Discovery material LOL .
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Seriously, "libertarian" is a catch all nowadays for "I'm certainly not a liberal and those republicans are not far right enough for me." They swallowed the chemtrails conspiracy, and many others, hook, line and sinker. Plus they were mentally ill. In your view thought, they were totally normal parents who wanted an excuse to go to Cuba so they wrote a deranged screed about chemtrails and conspiracies. Talk about cognitive dissonance, your picture is in the dictionary Joe.
 
J

Joe

Guest
Joe, chemtrails came into the story when the 3 page letter to the Cubans was revealed last week in the discovery material. The Haakens told the Cubans a big story including Haarp and chemtrails:





See above.

Joe, since you seem to have not read the article, it looks to me like you simply felt threatened by a few sentences quoting someone from SPLC and felt as if they were attacking you personally. If the shoe didn't fit why did you wear it?
Seriously, "libertarian" is a catch all nowadays for "I'm certainly not a liberal and those republicans are not far right enough for me." They swallowed the chemtrails conspiracy, and many others, hook, line and sinker. Plus they were mentally ill. In your view thought, they were totally normal parents who wanted an excuse to go to Cuba so they wrote a deranged screed about chemtrails and conspiracies. Talk about cognitive dissonance, your picture is in the dictionary Joe.
Most Truthers and Chemtrail theories started under bush By Liberals who didn't like Bush. Hillary Clinton herself started the whole birther movement . Many Occupy by into the Conspiracies as well . So to call them right wing conspiracies is ludicrous . I believe they are neither right or left wing just plain conspiracies . Like the Lady Di conspiracy that might not be a conspiracy after all ? Funny how some conspiracies wind up being true . I never said they were normal far from it I said if someone took my kids whatever the reason Id do whatever to get them back and if you have kids ? you'd do the same . They were clearly delusional stoners . Well educated as well .
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
I really don't think marijuana has much to do with these people, it seems more like it was thrown in the story to 'fuel the fire'. If you're crazy, you're crazy. There are plenty of people who smoke a lot of dope who are completely sane. There are also plenty of people who don't touch the stuff and are off their trolley.
 

PCWilliams

Senior Member.
I have to say, i do find the reference to tea party activists to be an off topic, gratuitous pot shot in an otherwise interesting story about two nut jobs. Just saying.

Neither political party has a monopoly on crazy.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I have edited the thread title to remove the word "chemtrail", as the story is really not focussed on that, it's simply one of the standard theories that any extreme conspiracy theorist will accept.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
Extreme conspiracy theorists it seems they really were, and chemtrails were a large part of it, court documents show:
http://tbo.com/news/breaking-news/d...f-couple-accused-of-kidnapping-kids-20130923/


Documents show paranoid side of couple accused of kidnapping kids

TRIBUNE FILE PHOTOS
Joshua and Sharyn Hakken are awaiting trial in state court on charges that include kidnapping, child neglect, interference with custody, burglary and theft. The couple remain jailed and the children were returned to their grandmother’s custody.

RELATED LINKS
By Elaine Silvestrini | Tribune Staff , Keith Morelli | Tribune Staff
Published: September 23, 2013


TAMPA — Even before they were accused of kidnapping their own children and fleeing to Cuba in April, Joshua and Sharyn Hakken were viewed as paranoid and mentally unstable by many of the people who encountered them.

More than 1,000 pages of evidence released by prosecutors Monday paint a picture of a disturbed couple who had latched onto grandiose antigovernment, apocalyptic ideas with conflicting political beliefs.
Among the revelations in the documents:
* Joshua Hakken believed the red light cameras in Tampa were watching him and had plotted out where all the cameras were, according to Joshua Hakken’s best friend, Stephen Joseph Morris, who described Hakken as “delusional.”
* Joshua Hakken believed the Air Force was using “chem trails of aircraft” to lace the sky to control people, according Jameson B. Rabbitt, who knew Joshua Hakken from when they both attended the University of South Florida. A mechanical engineer with a specialty in heating, ventilation and air conditioning, Hakken built an elaborate filtration system in his house to filter out the chemicals the Air Force was putting in the air, Rabbitt said.
* Dorothea Moores, the mother of one of Joshua Hakken’s former Air Force Academy classmates, said she saw the Hakkens when they showed up at her home in Colorado a few months before the alleged abduction. She told investigators Joshua Hakken, who washed out at the academy, seemed paranoid and spoke at length about how people were chasing him and his wife. * Another witness whose name is blacked out in the documents, told investigators the Hakkens had been living at the Land of Pines Campground in Louisiana and spoke about heading to Arizona for Armageddon. They were followers of the fantasy author Terry Goodkind and spoke of “Temple of Winds” on the west coast and going to the “Valley of Rahaan.”

(continued at link)
 
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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Well... it does show an effect related to indiscriminate belief in conspiracy theories, ie, that it tends to exacerbate mental illness via the paranoia and desperation they implant.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well... it does show an effect related to indiscriminate belief in conspiracy theories, ie, that it tends to exacerbate mental illness via the paranoia and desperation they implant.

I don't think it does. There's no way of knowing if their mental illness would be any better or worse if they did not have these theories to believe.

Historically people had similar mental illnesses with no need for odd conspiracy theories to bolster them.

 

scombrid

Senior Member.
They were just crazy people. This has very little to do with conspiracy theories.

It does have a bit to do with conspiracy theories.

oshua Hakken believed the Air Force was using “chem trails of aircraft” to lace the sky to control people, according Jameson B. Rabbitt, who knew Joshua Hakken from when they both attended the University of South Florida. A mechanical engineer with a specialty in heating, ventilation and air conditioning, Hakken built an elaborate filtration system in his house to filter out the chemicals the Air Force was putting in the air, Rabbitt said.

This is the type of person being manipulated and preyed upon by people like Carnicom and Dutchsinse. There was a youtuber named Bethanyhome7 that believed that she was under electromagnetic attack and that "they" had killed her dogs and were coming after her. She was sucked in completely to Dutch's HAARP/Weather Mod conspiracy to the extent that she made a lot of copycat RADAR videos to which Dutch often linked and commented to encourage her.

I don't think the conspiracy theories make people crazy but they can suck in the crazy and are a tool for manipulators to use to exploit crazy people.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
But the question is if it makes them any more crazy. Would the "Doctor Minor" from my (true) excerpt above have a worse time nowadays, when he already believed: "men were coming to his rooms at night, trying to poison him." There's always a "they".
 

scombrid

Senior Member.
Do conspiracy theories worsen paranoia? I'm not qualified to say. My gut feeling is that the internet provides ready access to stimuli that could reinforce paranoid thought processes. It might be a tipping point for some. I can only imagine what it must do to someone prone to paranoid delusions to become convinced that contrails are chemtrails. It's got to be like chaining a gun shy dog outside on New Years eve.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Do conspiracy theories worsen paranoia? I'm not qualified to say. My gut feeling is that the internet provides ready access to stimuli that could reinforce paranoid thought processes. It might be a tipping point for some. I can only imagine what it must do to someone prone to paranoid delusions to become convinced that contrails are chemtrails. It's got to be like chaining a gun shy dog outside on New Years eve.

I don't agree. The world is already seems incredibly suspicious, and everything is personally significant to the highly paranoid. Telling them about "chemtrails" is just another brick in the wall. If anything, a confirmation of their suspicious might reassure them that they were not crazy, and make them feel better.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
I don't agree. The world is already seems incredibly suspicious, and everything is personally significant to the highly paranoid. Telling them about "chemtrails" is just another brick in the wall. If anything, a confirmation of their suspicious might reassure them that they were not crazy, and make them feel better.

So do you think there's a clear line between this mental illness (such as the case of the person you referenced earlier) and cases of paranoia or extreme paranoia?
And also, is there a name for this type of mental illness?
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
No. And which type?
The type of mental illness I'm referring to is the case you presented earlier with Doctor Minor being insane. Just curious if there is a name for this type of illness.
I certainly wouldn't lump it in with whatever most conspiracy theorists suffer from (theirs is a lack of understanding) except maybe the hardcore believers who truly think they're being followed. It's some form of extreme paranoia.
 
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