Phillip Marshall, 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist, Apparent Suicide? Or What?

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And the kids "both appeared to be sleeping at the time they were shot"? Very unusual.
[...]
I know the crew who flew his wife home — they were called by the airline and ordered not to speak to her. Why? Very unusual.
---- end

This is going nowhere. You say things are unusual, when there's perfectly reasonable explanations. You also discount the entire sheriff's report as "hearsay". Quite obviously you are not going to be convinced.

Why don't you address the two "very unusual" claims you made, and back them up? Why are these things inexplicable?
 
Let's recap

Here are all three parts of my analysis of the sheriffs' alleged "investigation" in a single post.

http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Portals/sheriff/Press/2013/Update_Marshall_Investigation.pdf

The latest sheriff's report, point by point (part 1).

re. Alex's last documented communication was by instant messaging (cell phone) on January 31, 2013 at 10:40 PM. Macaila's last documented communication, via cellular phone, was on January 31,2013 at 10:10 PM. She took a cell phone self-portrait at 10:55 PM. Phillip Marshall and his children were found deceased on February 2,2013 at approximately 3:10 PM.

* Time of death, jan 31 vs. feb 2. Earlier media releases suggested that the time of death was still being determined. Why couldn't they tell by blood settling and rigormortis how long they'd been dead? Was the coroner unable to tell? How competent is the fellow?

re. Parag at the bottom of page 1

* This hearsay balanced by other hearsay stating that Marshall was friendly, had a good sense of humor, and actively involved with the kids and their interests.

re. December 5,2008: Phillip has physical altercation with Erin Chamberlain and is arrested. [* the dispute was over child custody, charges were dropped.] An emergency protection order is issued. [* which anyone can do and for any reason if they cough up the bucks.]

re. Top of page 2.

* All of the events reported are prior to early Jan 2009. That's more than four years before this incident.

re. The Glock handgun was sent to the California Department of Justice crime lab for fingerprint analysis, and is scheduled for DNA and ballistics examination (results pending on the DNA and ballistics).

* Good. But why didn't they report that these tests were going to be done in the initial press releases? Why had they concluded who the shooter was before doing the test? Why are they NOT including a GSR (paraffin) test to determine if Marshall was the shooter? And what exactly do they expect to find from a DNA test on the gun for, for goodness sakes? Are they also going to test his hands and clothing for blood spatter? (We don't know, but we should know.)

re. Subject Phillip Randolph Marshall could not be eliminated as the source of these two patent impressions

* A minor point to be sure, but if the finger prints were messed up enough nobody could be elimintated. But how did they determine that it definitively WAS him, even before doing the fingerprint analysis? Remember now, who did the fingerprint analysis. And remember also that the bodies were found on Jan 2, and the first report was issued on Jan 3. http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Po...er-Suicide.pdf

re: A handwritten note was found inside of a spiral binder noting the debt amount and a handwritten comment stating, "Debt Kill." The binder was found lying next to a laptop computer that was identified as belonging to Phillip Marshall.

* What page was this found on... We don't know. We might need to know what other stuff was on that page, and if the dates of the context is consistent with the time of deaths. Were the words aligned left to right, up and down, were they close to each other, were the letters the same size? May we see a photo of at least that much?

re: confiscated computers

* Why was the confiscation of the computers not mentioned in the initial reports, or any of their famously inaccurate statements to the local press (and presumably to Wayne Madsen who reported that Phillip Marshall was shot in the left temple) either for that matter. Why wasn't the planned ballistics test mentioned earilier. In fact when were these tests ordered. Were the tests even requested at the DoJ before the conclusion drawn about Marshall being the shooter?

[We'll take a break after this next one. -rs]

re: Autopsy results showed that he had a single contact gunshot entry wound to right side of his head, with a muzzle impression on his skin.

* And now we see the extraordinary competence of the coroner noticing the "muzzle impression on his skin", which we'll see again shortly, though he was unable to determine the time of death as being any time before the bodies were found.

THAT'S THE FIRST HALF OF IT!

Stay tuned for more. - Rainbow Sally


The sheriff's report point by point (part 2).

re. The impression left by the Glock 9mm gun barrel muzzle established that when he shot himself he held the gun rotated in an inverted (upside down) position. The inverted positioning of the handgun is a natural body/arm posture of someone shooting themselves, and is consistent with him having shot himself.

* The "impression" was most likely a burn pattern from the gun being fired otherwise it suggests the gun was held very hard into the head, which is NOT natural for someone shooting themselves. Now the question comes back to "where is the photographic evidence" that this is the case, and how many people know this is the "right way" to shoot yourself?

This detail is convenient for the sheriffs' theory, if true, but as we will soon see, if we haven't already, their word or their interpretations of events might not be "good enough" in a republic such as ours that relies on checks and balances to assure the public is getting what they pay for and that unquestioned power does not corrupt.

re. Marshall was found lying on his back in the living room behind the sectional couch. The gun was located under his right side midsection.

* Questions as to how the gun could have ended up behind his back have been raised, but if he had large fingers and the finger was caught in the trigger guard, it's possible it could have gotten flung down before he himself hit the floor.

Previous sheriffs' reports said he was lying on the floor at the end of a hallway, visible from the front door. Now he's "behind the sectional couch". We need to see photographs, floor layout and positions of the bodies as an artists rendering at the very least.

Because now the story details appear to be changing.

The initial sheriffs' report dated Feb 2 (the very day the bodies were found at 3 pm.) entitled "Man Shoots Children, then Himself in a Murder-Suicide" says, "While at the front door of the house they were able to see inside and saw Phillip Marshall lying on the floor in a pool of blood." It does not say the kids could be seen on the couch.

re. The manner of the contact gunshot combined with the lack of voids and blood disruptions confirmed that a fourth person was not present as the shooter.

* No, it confirmed only that nobody else was in the line of fire. Assuming the back splatter is the low velocity spatter, there would not be enough blood to 'cast an image' of another person, even if someone else were present. But even more problematic is the apparent fact that there is no photo evidence to even support this claim. It's 'hearsay'.

re. They found 43 unfired cartridges in the box. One unfired cartridge was found lying on the laundry room floor. A total of four rounds were fired during the murder-suicide. One live round was found loaded in the chamber of the gun. The gun magazine was empty.

* The Glock holds 17 rounds, max. 7 were missing from the box, 4 were fired, and one was found in the laundry room. Two bullets are unaccounted for. The crime scene has essentially been destroyed. What were the other two rounds fired at, and when.

re. A handwritten note was [inside the safe] left on the marijuana medical recommendation card that read "Hi Sean!"

* He kept his gun and ammo in the safe, why? (He had kids.) He left a note to Sean on the marijuana. Why? (He had caught her stealing drugs before, and took video of her doing it, after which she was arrested for burglary, breaking and entering, and possession of a controlled substance.)

re. Witnesses stated that it was common practice for Macaila and Alex to sleep on the couch rather than in their beds.

* Was it common on week nights? That's the significance of the time of death issue which the sheriffs have/have not (take your pick) determined.

re. The results showed that Macaila had a .05 % blood alcohol content and .32 mg/L of diphenhydramine (an over the counter antihistamine/sleep aid). Alex had a blood alcohol content of .03 %.

* Had Macaila and Alex been drinking? No alcohol was found in Philip's blood.

re. Phillip Marshal's blood sample contained .08 mg/L hydrocodone (pain reliever/narcotic), .02 mg/L morphine (pain reliever/narcotic), and .80 mg/L hydroxybupropion (anti-depressant).

* All of the above were legal prescription drugs, which he evidently had obtained legally, according to the medical records the sheriffs obtained.

Note: There was no alcohol in his blood stream. Phillip had had a drinking problem which he evidently kicked. But the kids may have had a drinking problem. More below.

re. Alcoholic beverages, including a bottle of whiskey and an open l2-pack of beer, were found inside the Marshall home.

* WHERE were they "in the Marshall home?" Whose booze was it? The kids, not Phillip had alcohol in their toxicology results.

Well... now we're about 2/3rds of the way through analysis of the sheriffs' report.

Let's take a break and then we can try to cover a bit more.

The sheriff's report point by point (part 3)
[parts 1 and 2 are on page 5, find "point by point"]

The Grand Finale: "Take one tablet at bedtime for SOME SORT OF MENTAL ILLNESS" -- Presumed physicians instructions to patient.

We are now in part 3 the wrap up of my analysis of the sheriffs' most recent press release on the so called "investigation" of the Phillip Marshall murders, or as the sheriffs have stated before even doing the investigation, the "murder-suicide", as they had "ruled out" anyone from outside the home coming in, though some of the doors were found to have been unlocked.

The questionable points made resume here.

re. According to records obtained, Marshall was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Additionally, the reports stated that he suffered periods of depression and mania, which led to his dismissal, or "grounding," as a pilot in September 2006.

* Diagnosed by whom? Where were these records from. Do "medical records" usually mention things like reasons for dismissal as a pilot? Then which of these "records" were "medical records" if any of them were, and which were simply "reports" and who were they from? (More below.)

re. A search warrant was served at a local clinic for Phillip Marshall's medical records. The medical records noted that he suffered from chronic back pain, and was prescribed prescription narcotic pain medications for this condition. His medical records suggested that he also suffered from some sort of mental illness, drug dependency, anxiety, and depression.

* The drugs were then legal, as was the marijuana. The "medical records" obtained by warrant from the clinic evidently ONLY showed that he had chronic back pain. They MERELY SUGGESTED that he had "some sort of mental illness". What kind of mental illness? That doesn't sound like much of a "medical report". That sounds like the sheriffs have taken it upon themselves to "diagnose" Phillip Marshall. And if he had a drug dependency, could that be why he was taking the antidepressant? According to wikipedia, that drug (hydroxybupropion) is helpful in quitting smoking and kicking meth. (See below.)

Also, what "local clinic" did they serve with a warrant? There are no clinics in Murphys.

http://www.dexknows.com/local/health...ras_county-ca/


re. He was prescribed anti-depression medications for his mental health.

* This is the sheriffs' conclusion. But is it really supported by the evidence? If it was prescribed for mental health, wouldn't the records be more specific than to say "some sort of mental illness". Do doctors often prescribe potentially dangerous antidepressants for "some sort of mental illness"?

What is the recommended dosage for "some sort of mental illness" What would the patients' instructions read like?

re. mid-year 2012 through January 2013 he frequented the medical clinic seeking additional pain medications. Clinic physicians had him sign a pain medication contract, which directed him to take his medications as prescribed, and to not seek medications from other physicians. The medical record indicated that he was to schedule an appointment with a psychiatrist. It is unknown if he ever attended this appointment.

* What were these "additional pain medications" and what were they in addition to? Was the "medication contract" standard for those kinds of drugs or was this an exceptional case? Was the problem that the 'antidepressant' is ineffective as a pain blocker? Anyone with internet and ability to look up that drug would have known that. They would also know that this antidepressent is "atypical", and is usually used in conjunction (see "additional" above) with other antidepressants when prescribed for depression.

What was the problem he was to schedule an appointment with the psychiatrist for? Was it "some sort of mental illness"? Or could it have been adult ADHD (another use for the specific antidepressant Phillip was prescribed). Could ADHD account for all the symptoms noted by his wives, such as the temper problem and the airline that "grounded him" for a while? Was it at their request he seek a psychiatric evaluation?

What date(s) were the records from that recommended he seek psychological or psychiatric help? And what precisely was the reason they recommended that and at whose request, if anyone's?

Would paranoia of sheriffs or other authority figures in the executive branch, which includes the drug smuggling operations of the CIA during the Iran-Contra affair which Phillip Marshall was well aware of and which is common knowledge by now, be called "mental illness"?

re. During the multiple tests the detectives found that it took an average of a total of two seconds to shoot each victim, demonstrating that it was possible to shoot both children prior to one of them waking up.

* The reports state that BOTH childrens appear to have been sleeping when they were shot. Of course one could have been shot before one of them woke up. It's the OTHER that would have woken up, so what exactly does that sentence mean?

Also, if we are to presume that both could have been shot before EITHER of them woke up, how drunk would the kids have had to be to have a two second reaction time? (The kids had been drinking, the dad had not. See part 2 on page 5)

re. Based on interviews, evidence, and other factual information developed during this investigation there appears to be several contributing factors that led to this murdersuicide. Phillip Marshall had been under the care of a doctor for several years and appeared to be battling chronic pain, drug dependency, and mental health troubles.

The prescription drugs that he had been prescribed seem to be very sensitive to dosages, especially when combined with other medications, which was the case with Marshall.

* They say "appeared to be battling chronic pain, drug dependency, and mental health problems" -- of unknown type? This is not very convincing.

Also, one of the interviews the sheriffs conducted was very interesting. The interviewee was apparently guided from her initial feelings about the event to a new conclusion. The person to watch changing her mind is Merita Callaway here. She's a county supervisor who knew Phillip and the kids very well.
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/n...a4bcf887a.html down about 15% of the page)

Were the sheriffs interested in getting her opinion or in shaping it?

re. Research showed that the Food and Drug Administration warned that any abrupt changes in psychotropic medications (such as what Marshall was prescribed) could result in suicide, hostility, or psychosis.

* This misuse of statistics is called "profiling". It's invalid as a logical argument because one could also say that nearly all murders are committed by men and conclude that nearly all men are murderers.

What we need to determine is whether THIS man was acting erratically due to this medication. It doesn't appear that he was from his twitter page. It looks very very consistent right up to the night he and the kids probably died.

https://twitter.com/thebigbamboozle

I say only "probably died" because the evidence suggests very strongly that the coroner failed to determine when they did die, or had an actual disinterest in determining the times of death, for some unfathomable reason.

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Lo...uicide-details 25% down the page.

But to determine the amount of the antidepressant in his blood, the question comes back to the time of death, which the sheriffs told the union democrat would officially be Saturday afternoon at 3 in the afternoon.

The drug being blamed for making Marshall insane breaks down quickly and the samples need to be kept "as cold as possible" for reliable toxicology results. Even so, there was ten times more of this substance in the blood sample than the either oxycodone and morphine combined. How much of the drug had he taken if he had died on Thursday night (as evidenced by when the kids stopped responding to text messages and missing school on Friday) and the drug decomposed for two days before the samples were taken for testing?

See the wikipedia article on hydroxybupropion re. "should be maintained at the coldest possible temperature prior to analysis" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bupropion down about 22% of the page

re. There was no evidence to support a theory that anyone else could have committed this crime, or that any other persons were present at the time of the shootings. Macaila and Alex Marshall both appeared to be sleeping at the time they were shot, indicating no signs of a struggle with a possible intruder. There was no evidence of a struggle with Phillip Marshall, and no signs of forced entry into the home. Various items of value were still present inside the home, and no evidence of any additional weapons was found. Lastly, there was no evidence that Phillip Marshall or his children were moved or repositioned after the shooting, which would indicate an altered crime scene.

* The problem is that there is no evidence at all. It's all hearsay. The DoJ is doing DNA testing, but the sheriffs apparently destroyed the evidence before it could be photographed to support any of their "lone gunman on drugs with 'some sort of mental illness'" theory.

Since the front door was not locked, and some others were unlocked as well, "forced entry" is a non-issue. If someone came in, they were either invited or came in through one of the unlocked doors. See the sheriffs' investigation report on page 3, "All doors were found closed with some having been left unlocked."

And the kids "both appeared to be sleeping at the time they were shot"? Very unusual.


Epilog

I never even knew the guy. Don't even know anyone that does.

But even the dead guy deserves a fair trial. See the US Constitution, Article 6 re. the right to face their accusers, counsel for his defense, and COMPULSORY PROCESS to obtain witnesses for his defense, including exculpatory medical records, I would think.

Recently, the Santa Barbara View has for some reason removed all their articles about Phillip Marshall. In the one entitled "Phillip Marshall Wrote About Conspiracies, Was He The Victim Of One?", at about 80 percent down the page and three days before Sean Marshall/Plummer had an interview with the Union Democrat, a person with the screen name of "Ann" had commented:
----
Ann February 19, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

I know the crew who flew his wife home — they were called by the airline and ordered not to speak to her. Why? Very unusual.
---- end
 
Also isn't hearsay the court term for repeating what someone else said/felt when coucil could just as easily call that person to the stand, i.e. on the stand stating, "my mom told me she talked to a neighbor who told her she saw something last night." THAT is hearsay. I believe you mean the report (compiled by professionals and experts who have not been proven to be sloppy or biased) is speculation. However that is the nature of forensics and being a detective. One must piece together an incident based on available evidence.

Also the FACT that they were asleep gives more weight to the father being the shooter. There is ZERO proof that the bodies were moved or restrained or that there was a struggle. Further how could someone sneak into a house, kill the children, and kill the father WHILE making it appear as a suicide. If you want your "version" to be accepted you must provide a more credible narrative than the one put forward thus far.
 
This is going nowhere. You say things are unusual, when there's perfectly reasonable explanations. You also discount the entire sheriff's report as "hearsay". Quite obviously you are not going to be convinced.

Why don't you address the two "very unusual" claims you made, and back them up? Why are these things inexplicable?

Fair enough.

The reason I think the phone call from the airline telling the crew not to talk to the mom is unusual is because Ann said so.

The reason I think it's unusual that the kids could both be shot with a time span of about two seconds between the shots is because I remember seeing a movie where someone was awakened by a gun shot and it didn't take them more than a tenth of a second to wake up. I have never been awakened by a gunshot myself, but that's because nobody fired a gun in the room where I was sleeping.

Thank you guys for the logo/moniker. I really do like it. :) It's perfect for this forum.

And if we can leave that "recap" up, I'm basically done here until the ballistics and DNA test results are retruned, unless you have some "perfectly reasonable explanation" for the above two points and would like to continue the discussion while we wait.
 
Also isn't hearsay the court term for repeating what someone else said/felt when coucil could just as easily call that person to the stand, i.e. on the stand stating, "my mom told me she talked to a neighbor who told her she saw something last night." THAT is hearsay. I believe you mean the report (compiled by professionals and experts who have not been proven to be sloppy or biased) is speculation. However that is the nature of forensics and being a detective. One must piece together an incident based on available evidence.

[edit/append]

The "report" is the hearsay. Sorry. You're right. And your own statements are hearsay. The media is reporting hearsay. I'll continue to call it that because "conjecture" is not really the right term here. It's more likely "fabrication".


Also the FACT that they were asleep gives more weight to the father being the shooter. There is ZERO proof that the bodies were moved or restrained or that there was a struggle. Further how could someone sneak into a house, kill the children, and kill the father WHILE making it appear as a suicide. If you want your "version" to be accepted you must provide a more credible narrative than the one put forward thus far.

The problem is that there are no Exhibit A, B, etc. types of stuff normally required in order to support the statements of those making them.

The evidence is, at this point, still merely hearsay because there is no evidence OF any evidence. No photos released, no (cleaned up) artist's renderings, no idea what the home looked like, where the bodies were located, nothing except the sheriffs statements, which they had concluded within hours of finding the bodies.

Added for clarification:

You are right about the term, but "conjecture" is not appropriate in this context and it's the "sheriffs' report" itself, the media echoing it, and your own statements that are "hearsay"
 
Fair enough.

The reason I think the phone call from the airline telling the crew not to talk to the mom is unusual is because Ann said so.

If someone is to be interviewed regarding a murder, then you want them to have as little external information about it as possible. You don't want people taking to them about it. That's standard police procedure.

It's also quite possible that someone said "her husband just killed her children and then himself, best leave her alone"

The reason I think it's unusual that the kids could both be shot with a time span of about two seconds between the shots is because I remember seeing a movie where someone was awakened by a gun shot and it didn't take them more than a tenth of a second to wake up. I have never been awakened by a gunshot myself, but that's because nobody fired a gun in the room where I was sleeping.

Assuming the girl was shot second, I'm sure it did wake her up, she just did not move much. This is easily verified with experiments. You could even experiment on yourself with an alarm and a video camera. It's a perfectly reasonable explanation.
 
Actually look up hearsay on wikipedia. It gives basically the same example I did. It is somewhat quibbling but it is a real term. You just keep misusing it. Also they again only use the phrase Exhibit X in the courtroom not in a report. Also it seems there was plenty of evidence; you just didn't like it. Also where is the evidence of tampering or destruction. As said before you seem to have an axe to grind against ALL law enforcement. It is the height of silliness to claim that there needs to be independent reviews of every investigation conducted by the police. First if it goes to trial, that already happens. It's called the defense. Second I have a creeping suspicion that you would not like the findings of an independent review and would want a different one. Which seems like you would just like the review to be made of people like you. I would hardly call that unbiased nor independent.
 
The children were not in a natural sleep, they had been drinking and had taken Benadryl, that alone would slow the second one from waking up.

I can understand why the crew might be told not to talk to the mom. You don't want her memories confused by other folks comments. And you do realize that your friend telling you that the airline called and told someone (did she take the call from the airline?) is in itself, hearsay.
 
Hi Mick. :)

Let's see what you've got here...

If someone is to be interviewed regarding a murder, then you want them to have as little external information about it as possible. You don't want people taking to them about it. That's standard police procedure.

It's also quite possible that someone said "her husband just killed her children and then himself, best leave her alone"

Assuming the girl was shot second, I'm sure it did wake her up, she just did not move much. This is easily verified with experiments. You could even experiment on yourself with an alarm and a video camera. It's a perfectly reasonable explanation.

It would have been Alex that was shot second. His head wound was reportedly on the left side of the head, not directly in the temple (and should change the ballistics significantly for that type of ammo), so indeed, you are right. If he woke up before getting shot he didn't move much.

I'll take your word on it that it's standard procedure, though it seems unlikely the crew of an airline could have told her anything to do with the case other than what she already knew, which was that her husband and children were dead.

Were checkers at the grocery store also told not to talk to her? ;-)

So it's perfectly reasonable that the airline called the crew and told them not to talk to her because, it was an ongoing investigation.

But was it ongoing at that time? The sheriffs had already made up their minds who the shooter was. In fact there was no indication they EVER intended to do the ballistics and DNA testing until this thing took off on the internet.

Dunno, Mick. It's plausible, but just barely.
 
Actually look up hearsay on wikipedia. It gives basically the same example I did. It is somewhat quibbling but it is a real term. You just keep misusing it. Also they again only use the phrase Exhibit X in the courtroom not in a report. Also it seems there was plenty of evidence; you just didn't like it. Also where is the evidence of tampering or destruction. As said before you seem to have an axe to grind against ALL law enforcement. It is the height of silliness to claim that there needs to be independent reviews of every investigation conducted by the police. First if it goes to trial, that already happens. It's called the defense. Second I have a creeping suspicion that you would not like the findings of an independent review and would want a different one. Which seems like you would just like the review to be made of people like you. I would hardly call that unbiased nor independent.

So I misuse the term. Translate at your end. The fact remains that there is no 'solid' evidence, no document photocopies, no artist renderings, and you say what you hear without any supporting evidence making your own statements "hearsay".

Yes, the Exhibit A, B, etc. is courtroom stuff. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know law. But I do know an incredibly STUPID investigation when I see one, for the simple reason that it's SO incredibly STUPID.

It's so stupid it doesn't even jibe with its own findings.
 
It would have been Alex that was shot second. His head wound was reportedly on the left side of the head, not directly in the temple (and should change the ballistics significantly for that type of ammo), so indeed, you are right. If he woke up before getting shot he didn't move much.

And do you still think it's "very unusual"?


I'll take your word on it that it's standard procedure, though it seems unlikely the crew of an airline could have told her anything to do with the case other than what she already knew, which was that her husband and children were dead.

Were checkers at the grocery store also told not to talk to her? ;-)

So it's perfectly reasonable that the airline called the crew and told them not to talk to her because, it was an ongoing investigation.

But was it ongoing at that time? The sheriffs had already made up their minds who the shooter was. In fact there was no indication they EVER intended to do the ballistics and DNA testing until this thing took off on the internet.

Dunno, Mick. It's plausible, but just barely.

What exactly is known about this situation? What exactly was said, by whom, and to who?
 
The children were not in a natural sleep, they had been drinking and had taken Benadryl, that alone would slow the second one from waking up.

I can understand why the crew might be told not to talk to the mom. You don't want her memories confused by other folks comments. And you do realize that your friend telling you that the airline called and told someone (did she take the call from the airline?) is in itself, hearsay.

You make a good point. The benadryl (diphenhydramine) and alcohol cocktail was Macaila's recipe.

Macaila was more reluctant to live with her dad for some reason, preferring to live with the mom.

In an interview at the union democrat the mom said:
Excerpt:
Plummer estimated that 20 to 30 teenagers have slept at her Angels Camp home every night since she returned from Turkey, crammed together in a downstairs room she called “The Cave.”

That wasn’t so different from the state of things during Alex and Macaila’s lives, when at least 10 friends would sleep over each weekend.
--- end
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Mom-of-murdered-children-interviewed

What were the kids doing in the downstairs cave. Lots of kids. And why did Phillip Marshall slap Seanie's sister over something to do with custody of the kids?

I'm just asking questions. And noticing stuff.

I notice that having 10 kids over in a downstairs "cave" every weekend is... unusual.

I'm raising the question in regard to which parent the kids might have been better off with, in retrospect, since it appears that Macaila (who had the higher blood alcohol level) may have been working developing an substance abuse/alcohol addiction problem at the age of FOURTEEN!
 
I'm raising the question in regard to which parent the kids might have been better off with, in retrospect, since it appears that Macaila (who had the higher blood alcohol level) may have been working developing an substance abuse/alcohol addiction problem at the age of FOURTEEN!

And? Plenty of kids drink and abuse drugs.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/kids-...acts-about-teen-substance-abuse.aspx#/slide-1

You are just asking questions, but they all appear to be pretty pointless questions, as they have quite reasonable possible answers.
 
And do you still think it's "very unusual"?

What exactly is known about this situation? What exactly was said, by whom, and to who?

re. unusual. Yes. Grocery clerks were not told not to talk to her. Why was the airline crew?

Since we are sticklers for perfect wording the last "to who" should have been "to whom".

And my answer is, you'd have to ask Ann. Maybe she'll join in here, but her "testimony" is already in and I think stand on its own, so it's probably not necessary for her to repeat it unless someone complains about Santa Barbara View having removed the articles and comments, which I can't do... because they have threatened to block me even writing to the editor from their end already and I have promised not to bother (with) them again. ;-)
 
I once had a 13 yr old tell me that she couldn't get through a day of school without the booze in her thermos.

Did Ann take the phone call from the airlines her self? How did you find out about the store clerks? Who did Ann give this 'testimony' to?
 
And? Plenty of kids drink and abuse drugs.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/kids-...acts-about-teen-substance-abuse.aspx#/slide-1

You are just asking questions, but they all appear to be pretty pointless questions, as they have quite reasonable possible answers.

How could it be pointless if it can be shown that the mom was enabling this behavior and the dad was trying to control it? Note that IN HIS OWN SAFE, he wrote a note "Hi Sean" (obviously to the mom) on a bag of marijuana that he had a prescription for. Note also that the mom had had an opiate addiction at around the same time the dad had had an alcohol abuse problem and that both APPEARED to have cleaned up and remained clean and sober for a period of about four years, as far as can be gleaned from internet articles.

You will ask me to post my proof from the articles, and I'd love to, but not right now, and it might not even be necessary if we are already up to speed on the various non-sheriffs' investigaion articles on the net, such as the one reporting that Marshall had actually hidden in the bathroom and video taped Sean (the mom) breaking into his house in Santa Barbara at that time, and stealing opiates, similar to the ones Phillip had a prescription for. SHE, not Phillip was arrested at that time, and charges apparently were no dropped (as they were when Phillip slapped his wife's sister).

Dropped.

For some reason.
 
I once had a 13 yr old tell me that she couldn't get through a day of school without the booze in her thermos.

Did Ann take the phone call from the airlines her self? How did you find out about the store clerks? Who did Ann give this 'testimony' to?

Please just find "Ann" on page 8. That's all we've got.

Thirteen. Ouch! :-(
 
Philosophical Question.

What's the difference between a believable lie and an unbelievable one?

Is it not that the better of the two would be a "perfectly reasonable explanation"?

:)
 
This thread is going nowhere, so I'm moving it to a more appropriate forum.

The rest of the evidence isn't even in yet. Maybe it can go somewhere when the ballistics and DNA evidence is in.

Also, is it usual to move these going-nowhere posts to a more appropriate thread? And what thread will it be?

[edited]

I can still find it. Cancel the above.

Mick, I think you've been pretty fair. And as long as there is a locatable forum for this stuff, I have no beef with 'metabunk' at all. In fact, freedom of speech is also a Constitutional issue (as is the right to a defense), and so I appreciate your endurance in this matter.

To Others: I'm attempting to develop the "or what" part of the name of this thread, whichever forum it may appear in.

Thanks.
 
Who fed NSA veteran Wayne Madsen bogus information about what side Phillip Marshall's head wound was on?

That Phillip Marshall had flown for the CIA during the Iran-Contra era is a known fact.

That the CIA was smuggling drugs at that time is a known fact.

That the police are obligated to cooperate with the CIA due to being under the executive branch is a known fact.

That the man Phillip once flew with (Barry Seal) was assassinated by a gunshot to the head is a known fact.

That this thread has been moved due to going nowhere as of today (see second post on page 8) is a known fact.

That Santa Barbara View has removed all their articles about Phillip Marshall is a known fact.

Whether intentional or not, what is happening is that the places where accurate information and rebuttal to the "official theory" of the Mashall deaths are drying. And there is ample reason to question the official theory, just as Marshall questioned the ability of relatively ammature pilots to hit the pentagon, even without calculating the G forces on the aircraft.

Find "11.2 Gs" on the net.

The pilot would have blacked out and the plane would have fallen apart from the forces.

It took Phillip Marshall, with 20,000 hours flying that kind of airplane 4 attempts before he could hit it using a flight simulator (which doesn't simulate "ground effect" or "G forces").

The consensus is to malign Marshall due to highly charged and prejudicial language of the sheriffs' alleged investigation, though we can see from the second post on this page that there are MANY questionable conclusions and apparently even 'diagnoses' of the deceased made by the sheriffs department themselves, who had concluded there could have been no outsiders in the home at the time the sleeping kids, the dad, and the dog (but not the cat) were all shot, and was typed up and released within hours of finding the bodies.

What kinds of questions?

For example, what kind of "medical record" would indicate that Phillip Marshall was being prescribed an antidepressant and only describe the reason as being for "some kind of mental illness"?

For example, what kind of "investigation", would say that times of death were still being examined AND days later report that the "official time of death was Feb 2 at 3 pm" a Saturday afternoon (when the bodies were found) when every indication drawn from inactivity of the kids online to missing school on Friday suggests that the official time of death is off by two days?

The times of death are important to many aspects of this so called "investigation" ranging from questions about how the kids had been drinking alcohol on a school night to why they were sleeping in the living room on a school night, to the rate of decomposition of the antidepressant in Phillip Marshall's blood and how to derive an accurate estimate of how much he might have taken that night.

Many people have asked me to tell what's so unbelievable about the sheriffs' investigation. I have posted all the points twice now, and with two minor corrections I have again posted the "recap" of the "point by point" analysis of the sheriffs' report near the top of page 8 in this forum.

I am not a lawyer, I just think the dead guy deserves a defense. This was America. Is it still? Doesn't a dead guy still deserve a defense, and even 'compulsory process' to obtain witnesses for his defense?

What if he's innocent. If he is innocent the real murderer or murderers are still at large.

Please take a look at my analysis, and if you find it has any merit, and if you happen to have some expertise in the field of law, forensics, etc., please pick up this issue as it pertains to checks and balances in a republic where the executive branch appears to be usurping way more authority than the founders intended, and by us citizens putting on the brakes anywhere, it might help putting the brakes on everywhere.

Thanks to Mick and the kids at metabunk for allowing me to show the "or what" part of this topic and when the ballistics and DNA test results are returned, perhaps this thread can be restored to the regular forums as being a thread that can "go somewhere".

- Rainbow Sally
 
Correction re. dates in the "recap" on page 8.

[Changes Jan 2 and Jan 3 both to Feb 2]

[Replace this]
* A minor point to be sure, but if the finger prints were messed up enough nobody could be elimintated. But how did they determine that it definitively WAS him, even before doing the fingerprint analysis? Remember now, who did the fingerprint analysis. And remember also that the bodies were found on Jan 2, and the first report was issued on Jan 3. http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Po...er-Suicide.pdf


[With this]
* A minor point to be sure, but if the finger prints were messed up enough nobody could be elimintated. But how did they determine that it definitively WAS him, even before doing the fingerprint analysis? Remember now, who did the fingerprint analysis. And remember also that the bodies were found on Feb 2, and the first report was issued on Feb 2. http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Po...er-Suicide.pdf

[Significance: this first report is dated the same day the bodies were found, on Feb 2 (Saturday) at 3 pm in the afternoon and already had concluded that the dad was the shooter.]
 
Addendum to the debunking of the "investigation" done by the sheriffs at the top of page 8 of this thread.

[Insert above Callaway interview stuff]

re. On a Saturday, beginning at approximately 9:30 AM Detectives conducted a decibel meter sound experiment at the Marshall house.... ... the detectives received an average decibel reading of 50 decibels. A prior control test inside of a closed room with a running refrigerator compressor registered 45 decibels on the decibel meter.

* A sound source at 10 feet away is 6 decibels less sound power than at 5 feet away. For the meter to have shown that a refrigerator's noise level is comparable to firing a pistol is misleading. More than being simply misleading, it's deliberately misleading. Nobody could honestly think a glock pistol and a refrigerator make anywhere near the same amount of noise.

Also, why was the test done at 9:30 in the morning? On a weekend. The shootings almost certainly occurred on a Thursday near or after 11 pm at night (as suggested by when the kids quit posting on the internet and the fact that they missed school on a Friday.)
 
Addendum to the debunking of the "investigation" done by the sheriffs at the top of page 8 of this thread.

[Insert above Callaway interview stuff]

re. On a Saturday, beginning at approximately 9:30 AM Detectives conducted a decibel meter sound experiment at the Marshall house.... ... the detectives received an average decibel reading of 50 decibels. A prior control test inside of a closed room with a running refrigerator compressor registered 45 decibels on the decibel meter.

* A sound source at 10 feet away is 6 decibels less sound power than at 5 feet away. For the meter to have shown that a refrigerator's noise level is comparable to firing a pistol is misleading. More than being simply misleading, it's deliberately misleading. Nobody could honestly think a glock pistol and a refrigerator make anywhere near the same amount of noise.

Also, why was the test done at 9:30 in the morning? On a weekend. The shootings almost certainly occurred on a Thursday near or after 11 pm at night (as suggested by when the kids quit posting on the internet and the fact that they missed school on a Friday.)

Out of context much?


On a Saturday, beginning at approximately 9:30 AM Detectives conducted a decibel
meter sound experiment at the Marshall house.

In
advance of the experiment, due to the
extremely low availability of the type of ammunition that Marshal had purchased, the
Fiocchi Ammunition Company, for the purpose of this experiment, donated a box of the
exact same type of ammunition that Marshall had purchased at Big 5 Sporting Goods (92
grain EMB-Expansion Mono-Block). The detectives were also able to locate a second
box through the Big 5 Sporting Goods corporate office. Furthermore, the detectives used
an identical Glock Model 19 nine-millimeter semi-automatic handgun for the test.

Additionally, they re-constructed the scene by using a donated couch. Melons were used
to simulate a human head. A bullet trap barrel and sandbags were used to shoot into for
safety. Over a period of time the detectives fired a total of sixteen rounds from inside the
home while the decibel meter was positioned at various points outside the Marshall
home.

One point of measurement included inside the home of the nearest neighbor who
shared a property line with the Marshall property. The neighbor's house sat
approximately 50 feet from the Marshall house. Throughout the test, while inside the
neighbor's home, the detectives received an average decibel reading of 50 decibels. They
also received an average decibel reading of 50 decibels at various points of measurement
outside the Marshall home. A prior control test inside of a closed room with a running
refrigerator compressor registered 45 decibels on the decibel meter.

At the conclusion of
the test the detectives interviewed residents surrounding the Marshall home to inquire
whether or not they had heard the gunshots. None of the residents spoken to said that they
had heard the shots, nor were they aware that the experiment was taking place. The
Calaveras County Sheriff s Dispatch Center did not receive any reports of "shots fired"
calls from the area of the subdivision during the testing process. The neighbor, whose
house the detectives used to obtain an interior reading, was present during the
experiment. After the firing of six rounds, the neighbor indicated that the neighbor had
heard the shots; however, due to the low volume the neighbor felt that the neighbor
would not have heard the shots if the neighbor were sleeping. The neighbor went on to
say that despite the fact that the neighbor is a "very light sleeper", the neighbor would not
have been awakened by the noise. The neighbor clarified the statement by reiterating that
the shots were not loud enough to have awakened the neighbor despite the neighbor's
close proximity to the Marshall residence.

Content from External Source
They did some test shots, they were not loud outside the house, nobody reported hearing them. One neighbor who knew the tests were going on did hear them, but said they would not have woken him.

They were not in any way comparing a gunshot to a refrigerator. They were comparing a gunshot IN ANOTHER HOUSE to a refrigerator.
 
Out of context much?


On a Saturday, beginning at approximately 9:30 AM Detectives conducted a decibel
meter sound experiment at the Marshall house.

In
advance of the experiment, due to the
extremely low availability of the type of ammunition that Marshal had purchased, the
Fiocchi Ammunition Company, for the purpose of this experiment, donated a box of the
exact same type of ammunition that Marshall had purchased at Big 5 Sporting Goods (92
grain EMB-Expansion Mono-Block). The detectives were also able to locate a second
box through the Big 5 Sporting Goods corporate office. Furthermore, the detectives used
an identical Glock Model 19 nine-millimeter semi-automatic handgun for the test.

Additionally, they re-constructed the scene by using a donated couch. Melons were used
to simulate a human head. A bullet trap barrel and sandbags were used to shoot into for
safety. Over a period of time the detectives fired a total of sixteen rounds from inside the
home while the decibel meter was positioned at various points outside the Marshall
home.

One point of measurement included inside the home of the nearest neighbor who
shared a property line with the Marshall property. The neighbor's house sat
approximately 50 feet from the Marshall house. Throughout the test, while inside the
neighbor's home, the detectives received an average decibel reading of 50 decibels. They
also received an average decibel reading of 50 decibels at various points of measurement
outside the Marshall home. A prior control test inside of a closed room with a running
refrigerator compressor registered 45 decibels on the decibel meter.

At the conclusion of
the test the detectives interviewed residents surrounding the Marshall home to inquire
whether or not they had heard the gunshots. None of the residents spoken to said that they
had heard the shots, nor were they aware that the experiment was taking place. The
Calaveras County Sheriff s Dispatch Center did not receive any reports of "shots fired"
calls from the area of the subdivision during the testing process. The neighbor, whose
house the detectives used to obtain an interior reading, was present during the
experiment. After the firing of six rounds, the neighbor indicated that the neighbor had
heard the shots; however, due to the low volume the neighbor felt that the neighbor
would not have heard the shots if the neighbor were sleeping. The neighbor went on to
say that despite the fact that the neighbor is a "very light sleeper", the neighbor would not
have been awakened by the noise. The neighbor clarified the statement by reiterating that
the shots were not loud enough to have awakened the neighbor despite the neighbor's
close proximity to the Marshall residence.

Content from External Source
They did some test shots, they were not loud outside the house, nobody reported hearing them. One neighbor who knew the tests were going on did hear them, but said they would not have woken him.

They were not in any way comparing a gunshot to a refrigerator. They were comparing a gunshot IN ANOTHER HOUSE to a refrigerator.

The impression given is that the gunshot could not have wakened the children. My error. Should have mentioned that.

The initial conclusion that the children slept through getting shot is maintained in the latest report.

However, the noise level on a Saturday (lawn mowers, airplanes, cars, etc.) would affect how sounds were perceived, so even that part of the test was invalid.

Thanks for pointing that out.
 
The impression given is that the gunshot could not have wakened the children. My error. Should have mentioned that.


The initial conclusion that the children slept through getting shot is maintained in the latest report.


No it is not, and it never was.
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Portals/sheriff/Press/2013/Update_Marshall_Investigation.pdf


In order to demonstrate a length of time between the two gunshots that struck Alex and
Macaila, the detectives and firearms instructors with the Calaveras County Sheriffs
Office conducted a live gunfire test. In the test they positioned targets in the exact
positions and distance as how Alex and Macaila lay on the couch. During the multiple
tests the detectives found that it took an average of a total of two seconds to shoot each
victim, demonstrating that it was possible to shoot both children prior to one of them
waking up.
Content from External Source
Seems fairly clear that the report indicates that the kids would wake up from the gunshot.
 
No it is not, and it never was.
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Portals/sheriff/Press/2013/Update_Marshall_Investigation.pdf


In order to demonstrate a length of time between the two gunshots that struck Alex and
Macaila, the detectives and firearms instructors with the Calaveras County Sheriffs
Office conducted a live gunfire test. In the test they positioned targets in the exact
positions and distance as how Alex and Macaila lay on the couch. During the multiple
tests the detectives found that it took an average of a total of two seconds to shoot each
victim, demonstrating that it was possible to shoot both children prior to one of them
waking up.
Content from External Source
Seems fairly clear that the report indicates that the kids would wake up from the gunshot.

The point is yours.

[added in an edit for clarity]

I concede the point.
 
Revised addendum (insert before callaway parag instead of previous addendum, with more context).

* The sheriffs maintain that the children slept through getting shot on a couch. A sound source at 10 feet away is 6 decibels less sound power than at 5 feet away. For the meter to have shown that a refrigerator's noise level is comparable to firing a pistol is misleading in many ways and hinges on the patently bogus "official time of death" being on a Saturday at 3 pm in the afternoon, which was when the bodies were found. Not when the victims were shot.

Here are the problems with the test.

1. The decibel reading was taken inside a neighbors' house.
2. The time of day and day of week were both undoubtedly (and conveniently) wrong.
3. There would have been car sounds, airplanes, lawn mowers children playing or noises at the nearby golf course and other sounds on a Saturday (in what month, we do not know) that would not have been heard on a school night in winter.

The test appears to be deliberately misleading based on their deliberately misleading "time of death", which has not been corrected at the http://uniondemocrat.com and which has not even been determined according to any of the sheriffs' press releases.

Do they expect a realistic time of death to become more clear as more time passes?

-- context --

Also, one of the interviews the sheriffs conducted was very interesting. The interviewee was apparently guided from her initial feelings about the event to a new conclusion. The person to watch changing her mind is Merita Callaway here. She's a county supervisor who knew Phillip and the kids very well.
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/n...a4bcf887a.html down about 15% of the page)

Were the sheriffs interested in getting her opinion or in shaping it?
 
That this thread has been moved due to going nowhere as of today (see second post on page 8) is a known fact.

- Rainbow Sally

Is that the thread has been moved supposed to have been because of something devious or because you have a tendency to ramble off topic? Sally, I just have to say that I think it is because you ramble. Just wanted you to know though that I am still trying to follow along with this to see if you ever do come to some sort of conclusion and state clearly what specifically you think is not right and why it is not right.
 
Re. "Phillip Marshall CIA" on the net.

Previously I analyzed the sheriffs' report on their alleged investigation of the three deaths in Murphys CA, which supported their initial findings.

If the sheriffs hadn't concluded that Phillip Marshall was the shooter in an alleged murder-suicide before doing their investigation, I probably wouldn't be doing this. But they said that persons from outside had been "eliminated" the same day the bodies were found at 3 pm in the afternoon and puzzling inconsistent reports and loose ends remain troubling to this day.

Nobody has control of the evidence but the sheriffs and the coroner. And their investigation appears to be tailored to match their conclusion by cherry picking certain "conspiracy theory" points while not addressing the basic point, that if the man were still alive he'd have an opportunity to defend himself and if he were found innocent the real killer(s) who could still be at large might be apprehended.

The right to a defense is key to our notion of "establishment of justice" in this nation, and among the elements the founders considered crucial to this proposal, as seen in the US Constitution, Amendment 6, is the right to counsel and compulsory process to obtain witnesses for his defense.

The sheriffs apparently had no interest in defending the accused (Phillip Marshall) and only had an interest in debunking "conspiracy theorists".

One such conspiracy theorist who has gained the most attention was Wayne Madsen who went to Murphys and investigated this issue himself and concluded that the CIA had executed the man and his kids. The key point and the weakness in his theory was that Marshall was shot in the left temple, though he was right handed. Where did Madsen get this report? Was it the same source that told the Union Democrat that the "official time of death" was when the bodies were found?

So numerous conflicting and/or absurd reports have come out about this case (I'll call it a "case" because I'm handling Phillip Marshall's defense in lieu of someone more capable), and since no photographic evidence of the crime scene appears to have been preserved (that we know of) to resolve these conflicting reports, the only evidence we do have is the sheriffs reports themselves, along with some followup media interviews which fill in the blanks or make sense out of the odd sounding parts of the third report. The third report is now two months after the event and which (as mentioned above) was not done before they had already concluded that Phillip Marshall was the shooter and appeared only to bolster their initial reaction to the appearance of the crime scene, which was published within two hours of finding the bodies if the report was typed up during normal business hours (assuming 5 pm).

The date of the first report is the date when the bodies were found.
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/P...Children then Himself in a Murder-Suicide.pdf

The update/correction report came out two days later.
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Portals/sheriff/Press/2013/Update-Correction_on_Murder-Suicide.pdf

Then two months passed before the third report.
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Portals/sheriff/Press/2013/Update_Marshall_Investigation.pdf

Phillip was characterized as a drug crazed, mentally ill "truther" in the media, and by the sheriffs themselves. That he was what has been called a "truther" (generally also a "Bush-basher" due to the 9/11 attacks occurring during the Bush administration) is not in dispute. But the evidence suggesting that he was mentally ill and/or drug crazed is weak or non-existent. Moreover, his parenting ability might be better than anyone expected, though this is not pointed out in the investigation. Nevertheless, it can be seen within the supposedly incriminating evidence against him found on the net an in the sheriffs own investigation reports.

Was Phillip Marshal drug crazed?

Phillip had had an alcohol problem in the past but appeared to have cleaned up. The mom, at around the same time had an opiate addiction and she too had apparently cleaned up.

[In 2008] Philip Marshall hid in the shower of his house with a video camera as Sean entered the home and allegedly stole a bottle of six 20-milligram pills of Kadian; a very strong opioid.
The police were called out and eventually arrested Sean Marshall, charging her with petty theft, trespassing and possession of drugs without prescription.
http://wearechangetv.us/2013/02/philip-marshall-lack-of-evidence/

The Calaveras County District Attorney’s Office charged Sean Marshall with petty theft, trespassing and possession of drugs without a prescription. Court records show the case continued in the Calaveras County Superior Court while she attended Alcoholics Anonymous and/or Narcotics Anonymous meetings. After providing an attendance card at a Sept. 28, 2009, hearing, all charges against her were dismissed.

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/More-murder-suicide-details

Philip and Sean Marshall/Plummer both appeared to have resolved their drug/alcohol issues by early 2009. The conflicts and previous divorce issues arose during the time prior to them "getting on the wagon". And the previous divorce proceedings were also dropped and the marriage continued up until a few months before they split up and Phillip moved back into his own home.

Why did Sean want a divorce again? Why was a note to Sean found in Phillips safe saying "Hi Sean" on a bag of marijuana? And why were the drugs in a safe in the first place?

This reflects on Phillip Marshall as a former airline captain and a parent: Were the drugs in the safe to keep the kids out of them (all of which were legally prescribed, including the marijuana)?

If they were not in the safe to keep the kids out of them it was to keep the mom, Sean Marshall/Plummer out of them. She'd robbed drugs from him before.

As Phillip has a right to a defense, it should be pointed out that if keeping the drugs, gun, bullets, etc. in the safe was to prevent the kids from getting into them, this suggests that he was a careful, caring parent.

Why the details about the safe were not forthcoming in a more timely manner (such as in the first or second media releases of their reports) is unknown. The last update comes two months after the first two hasty conclusions and gives the impression that the public had no right to know how they arrived at their conclusions.

Conclusions such as the snap decision that Phillip Marshall shot his kids in the living room, then the dog in the master bedroom and then himself back in the living room again. (If the dog was shot first, the kids could not have been "sleeping".)

Was Phillip Marshall mentally ill?

That Marshall was taking Welbutrin (the common name) for something appears to be certain from the toxicology results. But what was it prescribed for?

PARENTS: Do you have any kids that are taking Welbutrin? This is indeed the same stuff Phillip Marshall was taking.

Some antidepressants are used to block pain. Welbutrin is not effective for this, and so it makes sense that Marshall would use additional drugs for the chronic back pain he suffered. The morphine and oxycontin both appear to have been prescribed to him and he appeared to have been using them properly as the amounts in his blood were a tenth the amount of the anitdepressant which itself degrades quickly if not kept at the "coldest possible temperature" before doing a toxicology analysis (according to a wikepedia article on the drug).

The sheriffs reports and interviews point out that Phillip Marshall was required to fill out a contract promising to take the drugs only as prescribed and not to attempt to get additional drugs from another source. This is very likely a standard form. But the "local clinic" that required this agreement was not specified in the report so we can't verify this. Adding to the difficulty in verifying this using the internet (my only resource) is the fact that there are no "local clinics" in Murphys.

There have been no photographs forthcoming to verify that bedding was present where the kids were allegedly sleeping when shot. And no name of the "local clinic" in order to verify that the contract is standard.

We are beginning to see a pattern like a game of "keep away" where the sheriffs have the ball and the public is in the middle. All we want is the truth. And we deserve it in a timely manner.

But as is evidenced by the lack of a time of death which was "being evaluated" from day one and is still estimated as being between Thursday night and the Saturday afternoon when the bodies were found, timeliness doesn't appear to be much of an issue to the sheriffs -- or are we to presume a time of death will become more certain after a two month delay.

The two months was apparently necessary to just bifurcate the "official time of death" to possibly include the night before the kids failed to go to school. That is the only change regarding the time in the latest report.

Thursday night the kids quit posting on internet. (Jan 31)
Friday they didn't go to school. (Feb 1)
Saturday they were found dead at 3 pm. (Feb 2)

This lack of diligence in getting the time of death down to at least within a day is unacceptable. Were the kids drinking on a Thursday night or on a Friday night. Was it night time?

But decibel tests were done on a Saturday morning. Around 10 am. Why? And what time of year was it when the tests were conducted? It had been the cold of winter when they died but was already substantially warmer by the time they released of the third report. (Feb 2 vs. March 29, just one day before April.)

It must have been night time if the kids were indeed sleeping at the time they were shot. Was the dad who was on the wagon aware they were drinking? (The dad was the only one without any alcohol in his toxicology results) What room or rooms was the beer and whiskey found in? Where is the self-portrait Macaila took of herself that night, and what room was she in when she took it?

Most of the above questions can be answered. But if there are no photographs of the crime scene, it is necessary to ask why no 'evidence' was preserved photographically because there are still many many unanswered questions about lots of missing details.

What criteria are used to determine whether or not a man is mentally ill or criminally inclined? Is it erratic, irrational behavior? Is it lack of openness, furtive, cagey, suspicious actions? Is it "medical records"?

As we read the third report/update of their investigation and get into the part about "records, medical records and reports" we get the very strong impression that the only "diagnosis" that determined that Phillip Marshall had a bipolar-disorder was the sheriffs own desire to believe it was so.

Are they again playing games with the public or is there actually "evidence" of this that they are not sharing with us.

Here are some of the bizarre statements that result in their conclusion 2 months after the deaths, that Phillip Marshall must have had a bipolar-condition.

1. According to records obtained, Marshall was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Additionally, the reports stated that he suffered periods of depression and mania, which led to his dismissal, or "grounding," as a pilot in September 2006.

Question: Were these or were they not "medical records"? Were they actually just "airline records"? Did a doctor provide the diagnosis? In the 6 years since he was "grounded" had nobody else given the same diagnosis? Wasn't he supposedly taking medicine for this alleged "bipolar disorder"? Both wives had been interviewed, and both mentioned his temper and impatience, but neither of them used this word. Could it be the sheriffs mistook bipolar-disorder for what was actually adult ADHD? (See "Welbutrin" at wikipedia.) We don't know. We SHOULD know. But the reason we don't know is because of the inability or unwillingness of the sheriffs to show the 'evidence'.

Where did the one "diagnosis" of a bipolar-disorder that was cited actually come from?

2. A search warrant was served at a local clinic for Phillip Marshall's medical records. The medical records noted that he suffered from chronic back pain, and was prescribed prescription narcotic pain medications for this condition. His medical records suggested that he also suffered from some sort of mental illness, drug dependency, anxiety, and depression.

Question: SUGGESTED? SOME SORT OF MENTAL ILLNESS?

What in the world kind of "medical record" would only suggest that "he also suffered from some sort of mental illness"? Weren't previous records available to the clinic? Records that had the all-important "diagnosis", that doesn't really state anything conclusive, we presume was obtained from a legitimate medical professional?

The likelihood of a prescription being issued for Welbutrin to deal with "some sort of mental illness" is quite a stretch. The only thing consistent with this verdict handed down by the sheriffs is this game of "keep away" with the real evidence.

And so it goes. This is the new and improved "evidence" after the sheriffs determined with certainty that Phillip Marshall shot his kids while they were sleeping on a couch in the living room, then went into the master bedroom and shot the dog, and then went back into the living room and killed himself.

How did the sheriffs "rule out" anyone from outside having committed the murders only hours after the bodies were found? That doors were unlocked in the home should have been known within the first minute after they arrived at the scene.

Has any part of this so called investigation been objective, or has it all been tailored to shape opinions.

Here's an interview with one of Phillips neighbors, a county supervisor that said she knew Phillip well. How did her mind change from feeling someone must have come into the home to "you never know what goes on behind closed doors"?

Watch Merita Callaway's statements here.
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_71f9b8da-6e27-11e2-99e8-001a4bcf887a.html

Here's the intervew isolating Calloway's remarks from the rest of the article:

“The actions don’t match the person we know,” said Merita Callaway, a county supervisor who lives four doors up the street from Marshall. She considered him a good friend. “I can’t tell you how many times we’ve had conversations over a cup of coffee together.”

“When I heard what happened, I couldn’t believe it,” Callaway said. “He loved his children.”

She received a call from a sheriff’s captain asking her ‘Do you think this was a murder suicide,” to which she replied, “I had a hard time with it. I truly felt like somebody came in the house.”

“What happened on Thursday that triggered this, if this was a murder suicide?” she asked. “Did he hate his family that much?”

That being said, Callaway said, “I don’t know what happens behind closed doors.”

[Note the "Thursday night" reference above.]

Indeed, that is the problem. You never know what goes on behind closed doors and so if the sheriffs have any real evidence, photographs of the crime scene (or artists cleaned up renderings for the public), Macaila's self portrait, photocopies of the documents they say they have, or knowledge of the exact time of death (see note above), at the very least, the press should be allowed to see them, and better than that, some method of impartial review, because this game of "keep-away" is unacceptable to the public who entrust their safety to law enforcement personnel (see the US Constitution, Preamble).

If they are wrong. The killer(s) are still at large. Think about that for a moment.

And it's totally unacceptable to my "client", Phillip Marshall, who has a right to defend his name, even after death, which I have volunteered to attempt, though I never even met that man and I have zero expertise in law, and I have no college education in any subject.

I just a desire that this republic live up to the Constitution that is still the legally binding Supreme Law of the Land.

And because his kids can't do it for him.

Note: For those who are technically minded, we don't go into details such as how voids inside voids in blood patterns might not be apparent (like shadows not showing inside other shadows) because indeed we don't know if the sheriffs even bothered keeping photographic evidence showing anything at all. There is no way to verify their findings and the home was immediately cleaned up. If photos exist that could be analyzed, the sheriffs seem to be playing keep-away with them too for some reason and it's not worth trying to anticipate their next move in the game they are playing at this time.
 
Is that the thread has been moved supposed to have been because of something devious or because you have a tendency to ramble off topic? Sally, I just have to say that I think it is because you ramble. Just wanted you to know though that I am still trying to follow along with this to see if you ever do come to some sort of conclusion and state clearly what specifically you think is not right and why it is not right.

Thanks. I try. :)
 
I think that the reason this was moved is because I and/or others seem to be rambling, as the conversations have ranged from SSRIs (which was not the kind of antidepressant Marshall was taking) to "truther" issues (which I have not taken up except by way of explaining a possible 'motive'), and the big one.

The big issue is that I am debunking the sheriffs investigation or their presentations of it.

I am primarily interested in Phillip Marshall being posthumously granted his constitutional right to a defense with compulsory process to obtain witnesses for his defense.

That "witness" is, of necessity, the "evidence", which is conspicuously absent from the sheriffs' investigation, even now, after 2 months of delays.

Metabunk is a debunking forum.

My style of debunking is unfamiliar to some folks. ;-) There have been a number of attempts to tag me as a "truther" when all I've attempted to do is get at the "truth". Whether or not I'm a truther should have no more bearing on the issue than whether or not I'm male.

I am male.
 
I am primarily interested in Phillip Marshall being posthumously granted his constitutional right to a defense with compulsory process to obtain witnesses for his defense.

So are you suggesting that ALL apparent suicides should be placed on trial in absentia? And that ALL police investigations be re-investigated by some other body?

I've moved this thread because all you do is say "the sheriff is lying", and extrapolations from that. You have consistently not shown a shred of evidence that this is the case, and multiple times you've had your most significant objections explained to you, only to just move to the next banal "question" on the list - all of which have perfectly reasonable explanations that you seem to just ignore.

In short, you are rambling. People have been quite accommodating in answering your questions, but nothing changed, so I've moved it here simply so it will no longer clutter up the "what's new" feed.
 
So are you suggesting that ALL apparent suicides should be placed on trial in absentia? And that ALL police investigations be re-investigated by some other body? I've moved this thread because all you do is say "the sheriff is lying", and extrapolations from that. You have consistently not shown a shred of evidence that this is the case, and multiple times you've had your most significant objections explained to you, only to just move to the next banal "question" on the list - all of which have perfectly reasonable explanations that you seem to just ignore. In short, you are rambling. People have been quite accommodating in answering your questions, but nothing changed, so I've moved it here simply so it will no longer clutter up the "what's new" feed.

re. So are you suggesting that ALL apparent suicides should be placed on trial in absentia?

Of course. There should be some kind of review process. You yourself posted what looked like an autopsy photo. That is or should be standard operating procedure.

As far as members being accommodating of my rambling, etc. Thank you. I try and I appreciate your patience. I wish I could write better, but I'm stuck with producing the same quality you are faced with enduring, so just "thank you" is all.

[Wanna see "rambling", try turning off java and writing a post. Yow! So, indeed I'm am trying... even have to turn on java just to enter posts in this forum.]
 
Here is a short list of a problem with an alternative view.

1 There is ZERO sign of struggle. No knocked over furniture or broken items. There is no stray blood from a struggle in the house or the persons involved that was not from the gun shots.

2 It appears Marshall committed suicide. With no struggle nor evidence of a blackout it is hard to manufacture a suicide. Impressions match him holding the gun and firing.

3 If the same gun was used in all three shots it would be difficult to hide the carnage from at least one person in the house. And considering 2 above, how was Marshall's suicide faked especially if his death was last.

These three points alone seem to converge on a murder suicide. Unless there is proof of tampering it is pretty open and shut. You can poke a hole or two but where is the reasonable alternative.
 
Hi JeffreyNotGeoffrey.

First of all, there's no evidence that there's any evidence. No photographic evidence was preserved, as far as we know. But based on the reports themselves we can at least examine the investigation report in terms of its own contents.

Here is a short list of a problem with an alternative view.

1 There is ZERO sign of struggle. No knocked over furniture or broken items. There is no stray blood from a struggle in the house or the persons involved that was not from the gun shots.

This cannot be verified.


2 It appears Marshall committed suicide. With no struggle nor evidence of a blackout it is hard to manufacture a suicide. Impressions match him holding the gun and firing.

The "impression" is more like a burn mark. DNA and ballistics testing results have not yet been returned (as far as we know) but MIGHT shed more light on this.


3 If the same gun was used in all three shots it would be difficult to hide the carnage from at least one person in the house. And considering 2 above, how was Marshall's suicide faked especially if his death was last.

As stated above, the ballistics test results are not back yet. We don't know if any of the bullets fired were from his gun.

We know the shell casings reportedly match his gun, but in truth we don't even know if the shell casings still exist or if the casings have punched in primers. The sheriffs are not showing the evidence they say they have.

These three points alone seem to converge on a murder suicide. Unless there is proof of tampering it is pretty open and shut. You can poke a hole or two but where is the reasonable alternative.

Yes, it does converge on a murder suicide theory, but you have the "burden of proof" backward. He was presumed guilty until proven innocent, and nobody is trying to prove him innocent.

I checked some major media network articles on this and they reported that Phillip Marshall was "alleged" to be the shooter. That's the big difference.

At this point Marshall is "accused" but still has the presumption of innocence.

The three points above that you make are good. And you've obviously done your homework. Because the "no sign of forced entry" argument is clearly flawed due to doors being unlocked in the home. A large home. And Marshall owned many properties, some of which may have had large amounts still owed on them.

Among those doors that were unlocked was the front door. The kids were up late (from internet traffic from them). If Marshall was entertaining guests, we would not know because there are no photos of the crime scene and they didn't look for anything they weren't looking for.

You also avoided the medical records issue. That too was smart of you to do. Because it was not the records, but it was the sheriffs themselves that apparently "diagnosed" Marshall as having a bipolar-disorder -- which even if it were true, is not evidenced by his postings at his twitter page up to the night when they all three died.

His posts are consistent right up to the time of death (Thursday, according to Callaway's interview with the sheriffs).

https://twitter.com/thebigbamboozle

So we have two different opinions about "what it looks like" and zero proof of "what it was".

The sheriffs theory is apparently

1. he shot his kids while they were sleeping on a couch at 3 pm in the afternoon (official time of death).

2. went into the master bedroom and shot his dog.

3. returned to the livingroom and shot himself behind the couch the kids had been sleeping on.

4. on Feb 2.

DNA from the kids should have been present in the master bedroom or on the dog before the place was cleaned up if this is indeed the order in which events took place.

We don't know at what range the dog was shot, but if it was point-blank, DNA from the dog should have been present in the living room before the place was cleaned up.

We can talk about that when the DNA results are returned.
 
For Information Only. I am not going to attempt to defend any statements in this post.

To All Conspiracy Theorists:

I haven't been entirely truthful about Phillip Marshall's twitter page. There is a difference in his posts in the last week of his life.

If you have an eye for detail (note any differences in the last week) and know what it means, this (possibly in conjunction with where his wife was at the time) could be significant.

https://twitter.com/thebigbamboozle

But this is the "prosecution's" side. I'm only interested in Phillip Marshall's "defense". Other events occurring in the "Middle East" (aka "me") at that time could also tie in. Events in the US could also, including Brenner's confirmation hearing (which requires some knowledge of Brenner's nomination(s)).

Finally, Phillip Marshall thought Obama was going to be better than Bush (docs are on the net, and this is not my gig, but you can find them if you want 'em). That has not proven to be the case. At least not in regard to "whistle blowers" and government secrecy.
 
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