1. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    To debunk the Flat Earth theory, you can just use Sydney to Santiago, Chile, Quantas flight 27, 7000 miles. 12 hour flight. This flight would be impossible on the Flat Earth model, requiring the plane to travel at twice the speed of sound.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Santiago is the furthest south South American city with direct flights to Australia. There are also flights to and from New Zealand.
    [​IMG]



    A similar thing is Johannesberg, South Africa, to Perth, Australia. A short 9 hour flight in the real world, but impossibly long on a Flat Earth.


    20160607-101226-msprw.

    20160607-101534-jtqli.

    Yet people don't realize there are these flights, and claim this as evidence.

    The misunderstanding here is the idea that the flights "Stop Over" in Dubai. They don't. You make a connection in Dubai (or other places) - i.e there are two different flights. There is simply not that much call for flights from Johannesburg to Perth, so you (mostly) have to get there with connecting flights via a larger hub airport.

    There are really only four cites that have flights near Antartica:
    • Sydney, Australia
    • Auckland, New Zealand
    • Santiago, Chile
    • Johannesburg, South Africa.
    Sydney and Auckland are fairly close, and so the three regions form a triangle around the South Pole.
    ScreenFlow.

    See also:
    https://www.metabunk.org/a-flight-over-the-antarctic-sea-ice-from-chile-to-australia-qf28.t8235/
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
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  2. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    It's even worse than a simple straight line on the flat surface would suggest. If you take the great circle route (which they would have to take to "pretend" to be on a globe), then the route looks like this:
    [​IMG]

    About three times as long as Santiago to London, when it's actually a much shorter flight.
     
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  3. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    I fly for Qantas Chris, although not on the 747 which does that route. The flat earth does not work for people like me.

    I can tell you that the QF28 (Santiago to Sydney) is airborne as I write this. It has a planned flight time of 13 hours 27 minutes and a planned distance 6347 nautical miles.

    Here is the planned route, currently the aircraft would be approaching the 70 degree South waypoint. The guidance system is linked to GPS receivers and inertial systems. I fly over a globe, otherwise none of what I do would work. Simple as that.

    image.
     
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  4. konkerinLion

    konkerinLion New Member

    The flights exist in the system but when I tried to book them I could not. I tried with 3 different companies online, untill I resorted to phoning them. Although there are nonstop flights inside the database on booking they are not available. Everyone most make a pitstop.

    Also to counter-debate the argument made that we would have to fly longer. Actually that's pretty illogical sounding to me, why would you need to fly a curve on a flat plane? Just flying straight wouldn't matter - you are above the clouds. They always fly in predominantly a straight line for majority of the flight also on all flights because point to point is the fastest most fuel efficient way to fly.

    Thanks
     
  5. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Please provide screenshots demonstrating this.
     
  6. Henk001

    Henk001 Active Member

    upload_2015-11-9_20-5-42.
    You have to choose the right day. QF27 doesn't fly on tuesday and thursday
     
  7. sharpnfuzzy

    sharpnfuzzy Member

    To keep up the illusion that the Earth is not flat. Otherwise you'd leave Sydney heading north instead of east and during your journey pass over/near land that looks strangely like California instead of the Antarctic.
     
  8. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    Flying longer is just the natural consequence of believing in a flat model of the earth which has two and a half times the surface area of the spherical model.
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Senior Member

    I was having a discussion with someone who claimed that the LAN flights between Auckland and Santiago are "always cancelled two days before the flight".

    But there are videos of people flying the route on YouTube, for instance:



    and



    There is one flight a day in each direction and the scheduled duration is 11 hours 20 minutes:

    upload_2015-11-26_19-21-1.

    Looking at the most recent flight, on Nov 26:

    Actual time of departure, 1921 NZDT (UTC +13) = 0621UTC.
    Actual time of arrival, 1411 CLT (UTC -3) = 1711UTC.

    Actual flight time was 10 hours 50 minutes.

    The great circle distance is 6,005 miles, giving an average speed of 554mph. The cruising speed of a Dreamliner is 567mph.


    Edit: note that this LAN flight (including the Sydney-Auckland leg) is the same one as QF321 in the screenshot in post 7 above: it's a codeshare.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2015
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  10. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    Qantas runs four days a week Syd-SCL. I have mates who fly it.

    FlightAware is the place to check all this.

    On a personal note I find the flat-earthers exasperating; more so than the chemmies.
     
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  11. Whitebeard

    Whitebeard Senior Member

    Yup, at least chemmies can say they have something to back their claims, even if the evidence is so flimsy it has as much going for it as a very wet paper bag.
     
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  12. Z.W. Wolf

    Z.W. Wolf Active Member

    http://www.travelandtourworld.com/news/article/qantas-celebrates-3-years-flying-santigo/





    http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/press-release-2014-air-new-zealand-to-fly-direct-to-argentina

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2016
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  13. Hama Neggs

    Hama Neggs Senior Member

    In the end, they will say that YOU have to PROVE those vids of flights aren't fake. :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Auldy

    Auldy Senior Member

    I wonder if we could take a trip that works in a long-distance flight, that can prove the world is a globe, AND finish the flight in South Africa to visit @Rongram and witness his free energy device and collect his $20k bet at the same time :p :p :p.

    Two birds, one expensive, round the globe, stone.
     
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  15. Philip Machanick

    Philip Machanick New Member

    In any case those making this claim must explain why every long haul airline in the world wastes enormous amounts of fuel flying great circles when a straight line would be the shortest route on a flat planet.
     
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  16. scifiagent

    scifiagent New Member

    There are 100's of compliments and complaints on this flight so it must be real. Unless all those complaints sites are fake.. Easy answer to any problem they cant solve.. ITS FAKE! LOL
     
  17. scifiagent

    scifiagent New Member

    Oh and a friend of mine lives in Australia and has flown Johannesburg to Sydney more than once in around 13 hours, with flat earth this wont be possible in 13 hours unless they have special conspiracy planes which fly double the speed...
     
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  18. Pierre Ordinaire

    Pierre Ordinaire New Member

    For 34 years, until April 2014, Aerolineas Argentinas had a transpolar flight from Ezeiza [Buenos Aires in Argentina] to Sydney.



    Unless tens of thousands of people had been recruited to lie about taking that flight, the earth is a sphere.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2016
  19. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    Not quite transpolar, but still the point stands.
    20160221-121723-mj0jm.
     
  20. Pierre Ordinaire

    Pierre Ordinaire New Member

    Damn, they should have flown to Perth!
     
  21. My girlfriend did foreign study in Perth. She got there flying west from Detroit. I visited her; I got there flying east. Our flight times were nearly the same.
     
  22. cielosurf

    cielosurf New Member

    Hmmm if I fly west all northern hemi... i can go around the world 1/2 way in 21 hours with stops and I arrive 16,000 odd miles and 12 hours later then I left ....the way home 21 hours traveling, but I arrived 3 day's later... flat earth explain please
     
  23. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    One of the claims is that GPS is actually carried out by ground based transmitters instead of satellites.

    NEXRAD in the US had 160 radars that give almost 100% coverage of the CONUS landmass.

    At approximately 1.6% of the Earth surface, this works out rather neatly that approx 10000 fixed based GPS transmitters would be required for global coverage.... 7700 of them in the oceans.

    On land you need to take into account the terrain masking of signals as well so more needed.

    Apart from the obvious point that no photos of these installations exist or that there is any evidence of an organisation that maintains them, it must be remembered that GPS is primarily a weapons targeting system that has a useful secondary function that is easily interruptible by the US military, that of civilian navigation.

    That is why the Russians, Chinese Indians, Japanese and Europeans are creating their own GPS systems.
     
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  24. Chew

    Chew Senior Member

    Not really. LORAN C covered most of the world with only 75 stations (each with 2 or more slave stations). OMEGA covered the entire would with 8 stations but it required a big VLF antenna that would not fit inside any GPS receiver. But both of those systems relied on very sloppy ground wave propagation so were no match for GPS' accuracy no matter how technologically advanced your receiver was.

    The biggest shortcoming of the "ground-based GPS" claim of the flat earthers is the determination of altitude. An aircraft would have to be fairly close (within 50 miles for cruising altitude) to a ground-based transmitter just to get a rough altitude. GPS provides accurate altitude in the middle of the ocean, something only a satellite-based system could provide.
     
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  25. Ioannis

    Ioannis New Member

    So my question is, why are those oversea flights not tracked by flightradar24 or others?

    Is there maybe no GPS "coverage"?

    Above the equator the oversea flights are well tracked.

    [​IMG] ?
     
  26. Mick West

    Mick West Administrator Staff Member

    FR24 works mostly by a network of ADS-B receivers, which have limited range, and are all land based. So the flights are recorded over land, and just estimated elsewhere. Look at this track of qf24 from yesterday (click for full size)
    https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/qf27/#9acc803
    20160511-121028-l85yw.

    Notice it has recorded data over Australia, New Zealand, and Chile, but not over the ocean.

    In the Northern hemisphere you see similar sections of the path with no data,
    20160511-121545-ek8yn.

    however there are also sections of recorded data over open water. These do not use ADS-B, and presumably use Radar data, which is not available in the South:

    https://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
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  27. Ioannis

    Ioannis New Member

    Thanks Mick for the quick response and explanation.
     
  28. TWCobra

    TWCobra Senior Member

    I will be operating those particular flights in the near future. If anything fishy happens, I'll let you know!
     
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  29. Svartbjørn

    Svartbjørn Senior Member

    Take pictures of any time vortexes you encounter!
     
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  30. Ioannis

    Ioannis New Member

    Thanks TWCobra.
     
  31. They'll brief you on the deception. I bet that's part of the training.
     
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  32. Philip Machanick

    Philip Machanick New Member

    At risk of feeding a troll…

    Why don’t you tell us what the deception actually is, and why every airline in the world that does long-haul flights buys into it at great cost?

    Forget these particular flights for a couple of paragraphs. On a sphere, the shortest distance between 2 points is a great circle. Airlines use these to plan routes, give or take other constraints like areas where overflying is not allowed or safe. If every airline flying great circles converted to flying straight lines, they would save truckloads of fuel. If flatties are right and the rest of us wrong.

    You would have to have an extraordinarily strong motive for this to be the case. So what is the motive? A conspiracy that costs airlines a huge amount of money? How can that possibly make sense? It obviously doesn’t so perhaps you would be so kind as to post a link to someone who argues the case, as this takes us a bit away from the topic of the thread.

    My wife BTW has been on one of these flights and it took exactly the advertised time (± the usual minor variation in flight times).

    Oh and one more thing: how are we able to get satellite data if the physics required to place them in orbit and the very concept of an orbit is all wrong?
     
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  33. 386

    386 Member

    I doubt it's a troll. It reads as sarcasm to me. :)
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
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  34. My comment was supposed to be funny, sorry.

    I've been to Australia by flying east from Michigan and my girlfriend got there flying west from Michigan, and both trips were about the same flight time.

    I honestly can't fathom how anybody could seriously believe the earth is flat.
     
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  35. sharpnfuzzy

    sharpnfuzzy Member

    This might start changing soon. I've just read recently about software written by a hobbyist called JAERO which can be used to decode SatCom AERO signals, the same ones being received by companies like Inmarst for example. It's quite interesting and hopefullly will start being adopted by sites like FR24.

    Since it's satellite based, the messages aren't as frequent as ADS-B but here's an example where he was able to track an aircraft in the FR24 "blackout" zone. Maybe it could finally put an end to the FE stuff or is that just wishful thinking?

    http://jontio.zapto.org/hda1/c-band-planes-on-maps.html

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
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  36. Henk001

    Henk001 Active Member

    I'd wish it wasn't
     
  37. vandamme

    vandamme New Member

    Yeah, something fishy will happen. At local sunset, the surface below you will turn dark. Yet your plane will be in the sunlight for quite a few minutes, depending on your HAAT. Ask a flat Earther how that can happen. Hilarity ensues.

    Seems like the more mathematically inclined could develop a formula to deduce the radius of the earth using the time difference. I'm sure somebody already has.
     
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  38. DavidrKun

    DavidrKun New Member

    The only reason why it cost so much is simple Fuel cost to fill that jet to make the trip.
     
  39. Spectrar Ghost

    Spectrar Ghost Senior Member

    Can you elaborate? It's hard to tell if you're agreeing or not.
     
  40. DavidrKun

    DavidrKun New Member

    I'm only stating that the cost for a flight is over 2k. Normal operation of any jetliner is very high with Jet A fuel costing over $4-$6 per gallon. So take that X 20,000 gallons per trip. It gets up there. So for taking direct flights is not that common.