Preview of Luis Elizondo's UFO book: "Imminent"

[Mendel]

I think we're on the same page here (metaphorically).

If this is true, and perhaps one of the folks with the program management exposure here can chime in - but this very well could have ended up formulated as a "sub-project" or so under AAWSAP, where it was "under" it but acting somewhat distinctly still from the rest of AAWSAP. Especially since AAWSAP-"AATIP" would be acting as a SAP wherein the broader AAWSAP wouldn't.

Where would its budget come from?
AAWSAP was basically a contract awarded to BAASS/Bigelow, that Lacatski and Sylvestre (?) at DWO were overseeing.
What funds would have been available to them to work on this at the Pentagon, hire Elizondo, etc.?

 

[Tezcatlipoca]

I think we're on the same page here (metaphorically).

Where would its budget come from?
AAWSAP was basically a contract awarded to BAASS/Bigelow, that Lacatski and Sylvestre (?) at DWO were overseeing.
What funds would have been available to them to work on this at the Pentagon, hire Elizondo, etc.?

I've not actually ran one of these programs so, there's definitely folks here that can chime in on the experiential aspect, my part here is from seeing it without direct experience.
So, I believe, in that potential case, the funding actually would be the same, since even if it was acting as a distinct "program" of its own, it'd be acting as a sub-program under AAWSAP and as a result it would make use of the overall funding allotment granted to AAWSAP. If AAWSAP-AATIP did eventually receive SAP status, it could've then entirely gravitated to a SAP funding mechanism, or alternatively, it could've had access to SAP funding mechanisms but still primarily been using the AAWSAP funding allotment.

While AAWSAP did act as a "contract vehicle", it was also a Program of its own, I do believe this comes with more rigid distinctions over purely contracting vehicles disconnected from actual programs.
An example of a contract vehicle alone would be the specific projects under the Irregular Warfare Technical Support Directorate. They split into "subgroups" that have respective Focus Areas, that split into projects. I'm not sure if the "subgroups" or "Focus Areas" are fit into Programs organizationally, although, the specific "projects" they host are purely contracting vehicles disconnected from purpose specific programs.
https://www.cttso.gov/Projects/I2C/Civil_Knowledge_Integration_Team_Awareness_Kit.html
This for example, is not a "program" or being operated as part of a "program" directly - it is project operating as a contracting vehicle to solicit offers for R&D.

 

[MonkeeSage]

Where would its budget come from?
AAWSAP was basically a contract awarded to BAASS/Bigelow, that Lacatski and Sylvestre (?) at DWO were overseeing.
What funds would have been available to them to work on this at the Pentagon, hire Elizondo, etc.?

Not sure was a budget for Elizondo's activities. AAWSAP was shut down by DIA at the end of 2010 per Lacatski in Skinwalkers at the Pentagon, pp. 145-155. This is when the Kona Blue SAP was proposed to DHS in an effort to move the program out of DIA and secure more funding to keep it going.

p. 145

The Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP) ran for just over two years, including a three month no-cost-extension that concluded on December 21, 2010. Even as the program was shut down at DIA, AAWSAP principals began looking for alternative locations at which to house what had become both a highly successful program but also a political hot potato. Several attempts were made by members of AAWSAP in 2011 to secure a place at the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) after the shutdown of the effort at DIA. They are described in this and the next chapter.

This makes sense as DIA had told DepSecDef and Harry Reid that AAWSAP could kick rocks at DIA but maybe some other department might be interested.

(U//FOUO) In November, 2009, Deputy Secretary of Defense Lynn and I met with Senator Reid to discuss this program. At that time, we determined the reports were of limited value to DIA. However, I did suggest they could be of merit to other organizations and that upon the completion of the DIA contract; the project could be transitioned to another agency or component better suited to oversee the project.

Source: https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/dia/AAWSAP/U-10-2552CE-IM-ATL.pdf

The basic gist of this information is repeated in a DHS memo from the Kona Blue documentation that was declassified by DHS at the request of AARO (although it seems it was being spun to DHS as an issue of potential growth rather than lacking merit as the reason to move the program to DHS).

(U) In a December 2009 meeting, LTG Burgess, Director of DIA and former DoD Deputy Sec. William Lynn communicated to Senator Reid that the DIA program could not be conducted by the Intelligence Community due to its potential growth. In addition, per an (undated) Info Memo, Subject: Advanced Aerospace Threat and Identification Program/U-10-2552/CE, from LTG Burgess to OoO U/S for AT&L, it was cited that the initial effort was insufficient to classify the program or establish a special access program and recommended that the program could be better suited for another agency or component.

Source: https://documents2.theblackvault.com/documents/osd/konablue-release1.pdf (p. 45)

In the same documents is found a budget projection for Kona Blue on a slide from one of the presentations (p. 5)

So per Lacatski and KB documentation, AAWSAP/AATIP had no funding post FY2010 and they we looking for funding through DHS, which supports the idea that Elizondo, Stratton, etc, were unfunded after that time period (assuming they were ever actually funded via AAWSAP and not just Lacatski's "plus one" on the Bigot List of the failed AATIP SAP proposal).

 

[Giddierone]

Were there any differences between the preview and the hard copy?

 

[Mendel]

failed AATIP SAP proposal

Elizondo was running AATIP like a SAP anyway, not even "reading in" his superior. From his IG complaint phone interview (via https://www.theblackvault.com/docum...nscript-of-luis-elizondo-interview-much-more/ ):

 

[Mendel]

From the other thread:

I think part of the problem we're dealing with is trying to decide who is more reliable when discussing what AAWSAP and AATIP were.

Right up front we need to acknowledge that Lacatski, Elizondo, Puthoff, Davis, Stratton, Bigelow, Kelleher, Green and a host of others involved in these programs believe, up front, in UFOs, aliens, paranormal shit, floating blue and green orbs, all the crazy stuff from the Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch TV show, a contingent that follows people from SWR, the government has captured UFOs and maybe alien bodies, bits of junk mailed to Art Bell are form crashed UFOs, 7' tall werewolves, and a whole host of other unsubstantiated claims. So, who do we trust?

Lacatski does seem to be the origin of AAWSAP. He went to SWR after reading Knapp & Kelleher's book Hunt For The Skinwalker and had a vision. He somehow got hooked up with Reid and seems to be the guy that wrote the requirements for RFPs for AAWSAP. Those requirements never mentioned UFOs, SWR or anything beyond some musings on possible future technology. Only Bigelow, a Reid campaign doner, knew to write an RFP that was far beyond what Lacatski had asked for, and Bigelow's BAASS was the only bidder for AAWSAP.

Lacatski maintains, in his book, that AATIP was just a made-up name used to hide the identity of AAWSAP. Lacatski never mentions Elizondo working for or with AAWSAP.

Lacatski never mentions Elizondo taking over AAWSAP/AATIP as claimed in Elizondo's IG complaint.

Lacatski never mentions AATIP as some sort of sub-program under AAWSAP or a Pentagon version of AAWSAP.

When AAWSAP lost funding, Lacatski claims he and Reid tried shopping it around to agencies outside the DIA, including the DHS.

Lacatski never says Elizondo took AAWSAP over or that AATIP was any part of AAWSAP. He claims Elizondo and possibly Stratton adopted the name AATIP for their research at the Pentagon.

Elizondo has repeatedly contradicted himself in various forms. He claimed to run the official government UFO Program, AATIP, that was just a side gig. He later claimed that he ran AAWSAP and AATIP at the request of Lacatski, something Lacatski never mentioned. After claiming to work with, or for, or actually running AAWSAP, he then came out and said he never worked for AAWSAP.

It's all very convoluted, but at this point in time it seems Lacatski's version of things more closely aligns with many of the FOIA documents, while Elizondo's claims are often contradictory.

I don't know.

Lacatski's claim is that AATIP was an alias for AAWSAP, devised in 2009 for the SAP approval process for "security" reasons (it was probably Elizondo's idea, who way in charge of security). See post #1 in https://www.metabunk.org/threads/the-origins-of-aawsap.12484/ . There is no mention of AATIP in the DIA files that predates Reid's June 24, 2009 letter.

 

[RTM]

I think this is related so I didn't start another thread. Jay Stratton is planning to write a book, I wonder will this be a bit too weird for the general public as he was heavily involved in Skinwalker Ranch.
hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/jay-stratton-ufo-memoir-1235996607/

 

[Ben Harris]

I think this is related so I didn't start another thread. Jay Stratton is planning to write a book, I wonder will this be a bit too weird for the general public as he was heavily involved in Skinwalker Ranch.
hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/jay-stratton-ufo-memoir-1235996607/

And the circus continues.

 

[CasualDebunk]

Say what you want about Lue there is no denying he has secured himself an impressive income stream. It was surely inevitable more would follow in his steps after the books success.

 

[Mendel]

Mick has made a new thread on the book, starting from his video (with transcript), at https://www.metabunk.org/threads/errors-in-luis-elizondos-ufo-book-imminent.13613/ .

I've been using this thread to keep the discussion of the claim on the cover, that AATIP was a DoD program separate from AAWSAP, in one place, because it's kinda more extensive than just pointing out an error.