Pre 1995 Persistent Contrail Archive

Leifer

Senior Member.
In a new YouTube video, this person makes the claim that in an episode of "The Outer Limits", this episode shows "chemtrail conditioning" or "changes" the experimental jet (rocket)trails from scene-to-scene, thereby showing other (?) "chemtrail conditioning" even during the early 1960's.

I replied, and proposed that the editors of the episode simply used whatever available "stock footage" was available, and that some of the footage had trails, and the other footage did not........and that this is a common but un-ideal technique (when inserting stock footage into a TV or film plot)....and that even though the footage does not "match" the other one, it does not necessarily need to be technically accurate. This is/was how stock (real) footage is often used in "Hollywood".


crop1.jpg

crop2.png

rear_view_x15.jpg

crop3.jpg
(linkable info)
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--kBRbDtKl--
/wcluubo0icras2wxwutm.jpg


 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Not pre 1995, but from 1995, in the music video to "This is Music" by The Verve. Persistent contrails forming an X over the Trellick Tower in west London:


The trails are visible in the first 5 seconds, but out of focus, and appear to jump across the sky in segments filmed at different times.

Then they are visible again at the end:

upload_2015-8-20_19-39-31.png

And there are more at 0:23.

upload_2015-8-20_19-41-45.png
 

Critical Thinker

Senior Member.
It is always most interesting when a chemtrail conspiracy believer actually looks into whether there were images of long lasting contrails captured in pictures/films in to order to produce evidence that the images of the long lasting contrails had been edited into older footage.... and when they do find that the original footage (in this case from 1973) had captured long lasting contrails, it doesn't make them question their chemtrail conspiracy beliefs.


Capture.JPG
 

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
This documentary is from the early '60's. It's full of persistant contrails. Why are they simultaneously doing a speed run and spraying chemtrails over a remote area, poisoning only their own people... and then show it as part of a commercial for this plane?

This specific flight won the Thomson Trophy in 1961.


More to the point, since those shots could have been taken anywhere, anytime... This shows that persistent contrails were something normal and unsurprising. They're so normal that they aren't even mentioned. Which means people at the time knew all about them.
 
Last edited:

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
Re: The Outer Limits Episode.


[...] At 2:35 the author of the video points out that the main engine is "clear" but "this hose is spraying." That "hose" is the exhaust of one of two generators.

Many unique systems and subsystems had to be developed to meet a host of new power requirements and functions. The auxiliary-power requirements, in particular, were severe, for not only is there large demand for hydraulic and electrical power but the aerodynamic controls will not function without hydraulic power. Therefore, dualization is used in critical components, from fuel tanks to hydraulic actuators. The hydraulic pump and electrical generator are driven by a 50 000-rpm, high-temperature steam turbine, which operates on hydrogen peroxide. The hydrogen-peroxide tanks supply the reaction-jet control system.

She also points out that the engines of the "bigger plane" aren't leaving a white trail, while the "rocket type of jet" is leaving a trail.

The B-52 has jet engines burning kerosene. The X-15 engine is a rocket engine burning anhydrous ammonia (NH3) and liquefied oxygen. So it's not too surprising that a contrail is forming with a reaction that produces more water.

In addition, rocket engines can form vapor trails from acoustic shock:

...this also results in contrail or a vapor trail as the ionized air forming due to acoustic shock (supersonic exhaust velocity) and temperature difference draws in more atmospheric moisture that evaporates or even disassociates on contact with high temperature exhaust products. Rockets whose main engine exhaust product is water (such as STS Space Shuttle launch vehicle that used cryogenic liquid Hydrogen and Oxygen, or LH2/LOX for short) will of course produce much more vapor.

[Admin: Edited for Politeness]








 
Last edited by a moderator:

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
The X-15 engine is a rocket engine burning anhydrous ammonia (NH3) and liquefied oxygen. So it's not too surprising that a contrail is forming with a reaction that produces more water.
I have never heard about ammonia (NH3) being used in a rocket fuel. I think it was a chemically related compound, hydrazine (N2H4), or its methylated derivatives, monomethylhydrazine, (CH3)NH(NH2) (also known as MMH), and unsymmetrical dimethylhydrazine, (CH3)2N(NH2) (also known as UDMH), which were/are commonly used as propellants. However, the reactions of these compounds with oxygen do not produce more water than burning hydrocarbons.

EDIT: It may well be that the rocket engine did produce more water because it burnt more fuel per unit of time than the aircraft engines.
 
Last edited:

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
All the references I can find identify the fuel as anhydrous ammonia. I accept your correction that this reaction wouldn't produce more water per volume.

I have to correct myself. There was only one generator and neither one of the things on the sides of the main engine are the exhaust for the generator. The "hose" the video author points to is the liquid oxygen jettison, and its twin on the other side is the ammonia jettison. The gas generator exhaust is closer to the main engine. The generator is producing water.

http://www.sierrafoot.org/x-15/aft_view_large.html

Lurking behind the XLR-99 is the turbopump and a maze of assorted devices and plumbing. One of the devices is a gas generator, which is the X-15's breed of catalytic converter. When you feed 90% hydrogen peroxide into it, the H2O2 decomposes into superheated steam and oxygen on its catalyst beds. The resulting gases drive the centrifugal turbine in the turbopump, which then drives separate compressors for the ammonia and LOX.

 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
All the references I can find identify the fuel as anhydrous ammonia.
Agree. It appears that, although ammonia, upon combining with oxygen, releases less energy than other fuels, it nevertheless has its own advantages.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia#As_a_fuel
Not as powerful as other fuels means they needed to burn more of it per second resulting in more water in the exhaust.
 
Last edited:

Z.W. Wolf

Senior Member.
The liquid oxygen jettison was always venting because the LOX was constantly boiling off. Little to no insulation on the LOX tank because every bit of weight was precious. The LOX had to be topped off from a tank on the B-52 just before release.

At 4:02 the author points out a strange line in the contrail behind the X-15.

In the comments section:
Harold Saive - The diagonal gap in the X-1 trail appears to be an error in editing where an extended trail was "photoshopped" to the original trail to make the plume larger.

-Did Photoshop exist in 1965?
-Could the most powerful supercomputer in the world in 1965 run a program like Photoshop?
-What digital video format existed in 1965? How would you transfer images from each frame of film into a digital format and then transfer the altered digital image back onto film?

What they are talking about is the shadow of the B-52 on the X-15 contrail. I think it's the shadow of the right wing.
 

keefe

Active Member
Is this an official Vatican coin or has some random person made it?
Antarctica is in an odd place and I can find no reference on any official Vatican sites regarding the coin.
The CTer's are already onto that one
 

Lisa P

Active Member
The CTer's are already onto that one
I cannot find a link to an official site it seems to me that a random person made a coin or it may not even exist.
I think it is a hoax.

 
Last edited:

deirdre

Senior Member.
I cannot find a link to an official site it seems to me that a random person made a coin or it may not even exist.
its a real coin. design by guido veroi. couldnt find specific info on what the design represents and the artist is deceased now.

i think the plane and world represents the Popes travels, which was a big deal then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pastoral_visits_of_Pope_John_Paul_II_outside_Italy


13235-8f790c013793ab2cd47cc099de0bba68.jpg


this is the 1,000 lire coin, from the same year and the pic i think it represents


f70ef70d771427097bf1c93d216f6b97.jpg

popemay1985.PNG
 

Lisa P

Active Member
Still not proof enough for me, I am about to buy one on ebay just waiting for the seller to advise the postage. There is no official information anywhere about that coin. I am a coin collector anyway so don't mind paying to see it with mine own eyes! The stamp of Veroi is on the pope side of the coin and is exactly the same as the 10 lire for 1985 so not sure if that means he only designed the pope side. I am very wary that it is real, happy to prove myself wrong tho.

*ok 3 different reliable sources, looks like I am wrong. Sorry didn't click on the links til after I commented.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
There is no official information anywhere about that coin
yea. theres alot of coins in the world :) i imagine only a very small percent have 'official statements' about the designs. But i'm not a coin collector so who knows.

there are forums of "coin people" ..i link one on my "UFO coin" thread...maybe if you try some of those type forums you'd be able to find more info.

I wasnt really interested since ( i think the design matches what was happening in Vatican City at the time) and according to the chemmies, it cant be a chemtrail because of noone remembers there being chemtrails when they were young.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
More from the fertile ground of Flickr. Apologies for any repeats.

1985, Alberta.
https://flic.kr/p/4rvqUC

1980, Kansas.
https://flic.kr/p/4zNe6e

1980, Scotland.
https://flic.kr/p/FUNFV

1981, unknown location.
https://flic.kr/p/FUNG2

1978, Alaska.
https://flic.kr/p/9pRCUx

1982, Germany.
https://flic.kr/p/3oGj5h

1977, England.
https://flic.kr/p/geGjxt

1970, Greece.
https://flic.kr/p/6gFTpq

1985, Wyoming.
https://flic.kr/p/6CYxdq

1984, Indiana.
https://flic.kr/p/eA7MC1

1973, California.
https://flic.kr/p/6KD5kR

1986, in flight over Europe.
https://flic.kr/p/qEs6Qs

1986, in flight over Florida.
https://flic.kr/p/pxNRyG

1990, from the Space Shuttle over the Mediterranean.
https://flic.kr/p/fjzCpX

And three from 1945, in Germany:
https://flic.kr/p/dT6Pou

https://flic.kr/p/dT12V6

https://flic.kr/p/dYfuHT
 
Last edited:

Carla R.

Member
Play Misty for Me, 1971
Persistent contrail on opening titles.

screenshot-area-2015-11-01-054531.png

Play Misty for Me (1971) - Clip - Opening titles.mp4.jpg
Clip - opening titles is here

«Play Misty for Me is a 1971 American psychological thriller film, directed by and starring Clint Eastwood, in his directorial debut. Jessica Walter and Donna Mills co-star.»
Wikipedia

large_gMMYNpxsVwGjgtMR20dKXr3kWUg (2).jpg

«Technical Specifications

Runtime: 1 hr 42 min (102 min) ...
Sound Mix: Mono (Westrex Recording System)
Color: Color (Technicolor)
Aspect Ratio: 1.85:1
Camera: Panavision Cameras and Lenses
Laboratory: Technicolor, Hollywood (CA), USA
Negative Format: 35 mm
Cinematographic Process: Spherical
Printed Film Format: 35 mm»

imdb


Full movie: here
 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure (1989) was on TV tonight. I switched on partway through and noticed a long persistent contrail about 25 minutes from the end. If anyone has the DVD I think it was visible just after the police station escape scene.
 

Auldy

Senior Member.
Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure (1989) was on TV tonight. I switched on partway through and noticed a long persistent contrail about 25 minutes from the end. If anyone has the DVD I think it was visible just after the police station escape scene.
FYI its definitely on netflix, I watched it (for the first time!) last weekend. 5 out of 10.
 

Marin B

Active Member
When I was first told about chemtrails about 2 years ago I was told that they are recent (past 10-15 years). Now the same person tells me that "they" have been spraying us for over 50 years. It looks like that this revised history of chemtrails is coming from geoengineeringwatch.org, which says "
" I don't recall seeing this claim before when I first started looking into this. Is it relatively new, perhaps in response to information on this site?
 

TWCobra

Senior Member.
When I was first told about chemtrails about 2 years ago I was told that they are recent (past 10-15 years). Now the same person tells me that "they" have been spraying us for over 50 years. It looks like that this revised history of chemtrails is coming from geoengineeringwatch.org, which says "
" I don't recall seeing this claim before when I first started looking into this. Is it relatively new, perhaps in response to information on this site?
Dane Wigington from GEW does not differentiate between cloud seeding and Geo-Engineering, so from his point of view he is correct. Cloud Seeding, (Weather Modification) has indeed been going on since the 40's.

It is a common fallacy, perhaps the most prevalent one, that chemtrail believers indulge in.
 

Auldy

Senior Member.
5/10? Really?

It's like you think the eighties should stay dead...

Bogus Journey is better anyway.
I'm must be broken :( I watched Blazing Saddles for the first time recently too, wasn't impressed. And unless there was contrails flying out of butts during the beans scene, then we're straying OT :p
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure (1989) was on TV tonight. I switched on partway through and noticed a long persistent contrail about 25 minutes from the end. If anyone has the DVD I think it was visible just after the police station escape scene.
i hope youre happy. you just made me watch Napolean go down the water slides :( didnt see anything after the jail scene cept cumulous. before the water slide are some linears but they could just be regular clouds.
 

Attachments

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
FYI its definitely on netflix, I watched it (for the first time!) last weekend. 5 out of 10.
It has not aged well. Or I haven't. One of the two.

@deirdre That wasn't it.

I found a low-quality version on YouTube and I couldn't find it. I could have sworn it was at around the 1:23:40 mark but there's nothing there. Weird!

And @Auldy - to drag this back on topic, there are contrails in Blazing Saddles: http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0071230/goofs

The only possibles I could find though were in the quicksand scene, at top right here (contrast enhanced).

image.jpeg

Might be just a cloud though.
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Related Articles Forum Replies Date
Graham2001 Contrails in literary fiction - Pre 1995 Contrails and Chemtrails 0
Leifer 1951 airplane spotters guide, USAF Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 2
cmnit Contrails in satellite images pre-1995 Contrails and Chemtrails 23
Clouds Givemethewillies Persistent Aerodynamic Contrails From Propellor Tips Contrails and Chemtrails 12
Mick West Persistent Aerodynamic Contrail Forming @28,500 on 787 Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 0
Mick West Giant Dark Persistent Aerodynamic Contrail Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 6
Trailblazer Persistent contrails at 26,000ft Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 3
Tapir-mâché Curious-- how low can persistent contrails form? Contrails and Chemtrails 25
Mick West Persistent Trails Survey Shows Chemtrail Believers Only Recently Noticed Persistent Trails Contrails and Chemtrails 32
Mick West 1952 - Condensation Trails From Aircraft - With a 1937 Persistent Contrail Photo - Oldest Ever? Contrails and Chemtrails 3
Mick West An unusual persistent aerodynamic contrail Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 11
MikeG "Non-Persistent" and "Non-Visible Chemtrails" Contrails and Chemtrails 29
Mick West Persistent Cumuliform Contrails at 25,000 feet over California? Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 20
S Persistent Spreading Contrail Contrails and Chemtrails 4
Trailspotter Persistent Blue Spiral in the Gulf of Oman General Discussion 8
D [NeedInfo]Persistent Contrails Picture Show Contrails and Chemtrails 2
M Converting Relative Humidity with regards to water, to Relative Humidity with regards to ice Contrails and Chemtrails 3
O More on debunking "no persistent contrails" Contrails and Chemtrails 12
cmnit Debunked: No persistent contrails in Russia Contrails and Chemtrails 67
Mick West Debunked: The Science Claims of Global March Against Chemtrails and Geoengineering Contrails and Chemtrails 4
Trailblazer Busy Sky over Southern UK - July 30 2014 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 4
Dylmar Are there more persistent contrails these days? Contrails and Chemtrails 49
Mick West Debunking "Contrails don't Persist" with a Study of 70 Years of Books on Clouds Contrails and Chemtrails 98
Ross Marsden Aerodynamic and Exhaust Mediated Persistent Contrails - When do they Form? Contrails and Chemtrails 52
Jay Reynolds Debunked: "Hygroscopic Smoke" Produces Persistent Contrails Contrails and Chemtrails 1
mrfintoil Discussion: False memories and "No persistent trails in the past" Contrails and Chemtrails 46
WavedRhyme Persistent contrails and overcast the day after Contrails and Chemtrails 12
George B Debunk Global Warming can reduce the number of Persistent Contrails Contrails and Chemtrails 7
Mick West Michael J. Murphy Admits Persistent Contrails Exist. Can't tell the difference. Contrails and Chemtrails 26
M Relative humidity difference between persistent and non-persistent contrails Contrails and Chemtrails 41
G Persistent Contrail Since 1919 Contrails and Chemtrails 0
JFDee Research: Consequences of Travel Shutdown for Contrail Coverage Contrails and Chemtrails 1
TEEJ Sunlit contrail, Cambridgeshire, UK causing media flap 15th April 2020 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 0
Curt Collins UFO: Contrail over Canada? Jackhead, Manitoba UFOs, Aliens, Monsters, and the Paranormal 32
Rory Unidentified "space vehicle" Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 8
Mick West Sunset Contrail "UFO" over Denver, Nov 23 2018 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 0
Mick West Aerodynamic Contrails at 27,000 to 31,000 feet near Sacramento Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 2
C Explanation Strange contrail like structures over English Bay, Vancouver 8:30 PM Aug 5 Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 3
Mick West Cut off contrail at sunrise with Corona Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 0
Mick West Illusion of Contrail Asymmetry from Flying perpendicular to the Sun Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 0
JFDee Falcon Heavy First Launch - Vertical Rocket Contrail Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 3
Mick West Late Distrail and Later Contrail Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 0
Clouds Givemethewillies Contrail lobes or mamma? The importance of correct terminology Contrails and Chemtrails 0
Trailspotter Contrail cross over Tasmania and spinning contrails over Victoria Images and Videos: Contrails, Skies, and Aviation 0
Mick West Tracking the Contrail of ANA173 with GOES-16 Images Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 14
Mick West Zigzag contrail on Terra Image Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 4
StarGazer SpaceX Falcon 9 Captures Video of its own Contrail from Space UFOs, Aliens, Monsters, and the Paranormal 17
Mick West Explained: Manurewa NZ, 'Extra-terrestrial' Fireball Jumps Up [Contrail, Altitude change] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 7
Mick West Halifax, NS: Regularly Spaced Gaps in Contrails [Ethiopian Flight 501] Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 47
Mick West Explained: Viral Video of 787 Leaving Thick Contrails with Forced Perspective Skydentify - What is that Thing in the Sky? 1
Related Articles


















































Related Articles

Top