Phillip Marshall, 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist, Apparent Suicide? Or What?

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Here's a bit more info, and a bit of duplicate stuff.

Here's a petition to have this case taken up by the DoJ.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

Here's an aireal view of the Marshalls' house.
http://www.bollyn.com/public/Marshall_house_in_Murphys.jpg

The toxicology results should be in any time now. I guess the coroner hopes testing for drugs will make sense out of how the two kids who died on Saturday at 3 pm and/or Thursday night slept through getting shot along with their dog (but not the cat)

On Feb 6 the Union Democrat reports:
---- excerpts
The time of the discovery, 3 p.m. Saturday, will be listed as the official time of death.
---- end excerpts
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/More-murder-suicide-details

Fortunately for the sheriffs, their alibi is that they did not tell the time of death in the press releases.

Note: If the cat was wounded we may never know because the sheriffs have already destroyed the evidence at the crime scene.

Dated feb 3.
The Sheriffs' version:
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/P...Children then Himself in a Murder-Suicide.pdf

Dated feb 4.
The Sheriffs' version:
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Portals/sheriff/Press/2013/Update-Correction_on_Murder-Suicide.pdf

In fact they didn't tell whether paraffin tests were done, ballistics tests, to see if Marshall was indeed the killer, nor did they report any DNA from the cat which might have been wounded, since the alleged murderer managed to kill both of his kids, you'd imagine he'd have killed both of his pets too. And there's no mention of photographs that might have been taken prior to the hasty cleanup of the crime scene.

But there's a question as to whether or not he killed any of them, actually.
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_71f9b8da-6e27-11e2-99e8-001a4bcf887a.html
tarquin feb 5, 2013
Phil was NOT depressed. He did NOT take his life. He did NOT murder his kids. Only a few days ago he said that "I have a gun, but it would be useless if I needed it because I got no bullets for it", (then he laughed!). I knew Phil, and he had everything to live for and he doted over his two beautiful kids.

And it appears that the sheriffs themselves may not have been so sure either.
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_71f9b8da-6e27-11e2-99e8-001a4bcf887a.html

Why did they contact the county supervisor that lived four doors down from Philip Marshall? Was it to get her opinion or to shape it.

Since the kids quit responding to text messages on Thursday and they didn't go to school Friday, the coroner's theory that the sleeping children were killed on Saturday afternoon (when the bodies were found) may be flawed. And if it is flawed, the most likely times of death would be Thursday.

Here's Philip Marshall's twitter page, not broken as of Feb 26, but you might want to download it.

https://twitter.com/thebigbamboozle

Notice that his posts are consistent in their tone from Jan 12 to Jan 31 (the Thursday the family most likely died). One interesting change though is his change from using tmblr.co to fb.me about a week before his death, and another interesting detail is a broken link to an RT.com article that was about rupert murdoch and the movie zero dark thirty.

So the ONLY evidence publicly available besides the sheriffs and coroner's theory contradicts their conclusion. If they have photos of the crime scene or other evidence that could make sense of their conclusions it would be in the public interest as well as their own to publish the evidence that so far has not been forthcoming.

Wayne Madsen scooped the story and has learned that Philip Marshall was right handed and that he died from a gunshot to his left temple. That he was right handed can be verified by photos on the net. That he was shot in the left temple can NOT be verified. And so how did Madsen come across this information and is it even correct? Did he get it from the sheriffs? Did they take photos of the crime scene before destroying the evidence? And why did Madsen zero in on this story rather than the Christopher Dorner manhunt which had ten times the number of google hits and culminated in a positive ID from a wallet and ID that somehow survived the conflagration undamaged?

http://santabarbaraview.com has closed the thread (search "philip marshal victim"), just as the final insult is due in from the lab in Sacramento.

Looks to me like this football field has the field goals, not in the end zones, but at the cheerleaders' benches.

In any case, Marshall ends one of his articles at the top of this page
http://thebigbamboozle.tumblr.com/page/2
--- excerpt
Yet, there is good news. The $15 trillion they have “lost” looking for Osama bin Laden did not vanish from the face of the earth, it simply went to a place where we can’t see it. Thanks to our founding fathers, American citizens come armed with a Constitution, and are backed with judicial and penal systems.
--- end excerpt

Make it so.
 
For what it's worth, the union democrat fails to post anything I write due to an 'error (c5)' which means I failed the "spoof test". I'm spoofing myself? How clever...

Anyway, the interview the http://uniondemocrat.com did with Marshall's ex-wife (if he's only been married twice) was probably the wife he caught on video stealing opiates from his house. She was arrested for burglary and possession of a controlled substance. She's now working as a nurse -- IF this is the same woman. I have not verified this, and whether or not she is indeed the same woman, I wonder if an ex-wife is a reliable character reference.

Also, Philip Marshall had a unique take on KSM. He thought Kalid Sheik Mohammad was innocent -- which he would necessarily be!! -- if the 9/11 caper when down contrary to the bizarre 'official theory'.

And it seems odd. The timing of the Senate hearings on the confirmation of John Brennan was also an interesting coincidence. Just a coincidence. It's purely circumstantial, to be sure, but if that's all our lousy boot licking cheer leaders in the Worlds Most Powerful Free Press can give us... well, that's what we got.

So don't blame US if we go crazy with conspiracy hypotheses... it's a hell of a lot better than the cheerleading bullshit that got us mired in Camel Lot (sounds right but it's spelled wrong) over there where Osama's good buddy Hussein was hiding all the WMD.

And whether or not Marshall had anything else that was unique in his books, he was in fact a pilot (verifiable on the net in posts from people that knew him) and had 20,000 hours flying time in exactly the kind of airplane that was reportedly used to hit the Pentagon, and he said it took him 4 tries at the speeds and angles of the attacking airplane to even hit the thing using a flight simulator.

[That particular wall had been the only one buttressed and the reinforcing was almost finished -- a 16-year long project. I saw that on PBS about a year before the attacks. It has not been mentioned in the mainstream... probably because it doesn't fit their "theory" of what happened.]

One other point here is that the alleged madman who killed everything he loved didn't kill his cat, according the expertly done, no-stone-unturned investigation by the sheriffs.


I'd like to post a correction while I'm at it. The "macaila #pissed" search terms don't find the place where she wrote about the cat. It's here:
https://twitter.com/MacailaMarshall
Would it be wrong if I threw my cat with his claws retracted at my dads face right now?

Note the word 'retracted'. Pretty well trained cat.

You might think this "cat" issue is not important, but it is. Think about it.
 
I had said... "...the apparent lack of photographic 'evidence'..."

What is this based on? Why would fresh crime-scene photos be in the public domain so soon? Would you be privy to that photographic evidence, and as you haven't been shown it, are saying there isn't any?

I hope you find answers to your questions, they mostly don't seem too trivial.

(edit)... I mean, they may have trivial non-sinister answers, but as you knew him, I hope you get the full picture to make sense of what happened and get closure.
1. The investigation was 'completed' though the toxicology wasn't done yet. They determined for a certainty that Philip Marshall killed his children and himself.

Question for you now. Is there a specific time period that needs to pass before photos can be shown -- at the very least to the press? No photos have even been mentioned. If they exist that would be nice to know, along with how long 'news' should 'age' before it becomes relevant.

2. Thank you. I didn't think they were trivial questions either. :)

3. I never knew the man, never read anything I wrote. I was blown out of my chair by the nonsense the press was reporting and when I looked into it, my astonishment only increased.

Support public education!!

It's a national emergency.
 
xenon, RanbowSally, what's the broad strokes of the conspiracy Marshall is suggesting? That the events transpired as they appeared, planes, fire, collapse, no controlled demolition, just hijackers? But somehow arranged by elements within the CIA?
I've mostly been looking at the absudity of the alleged investigation, so I may be off a bit here. But my feeling is that his main point is that the "shoe bomber" al Qaeda types really weren't sophisticated enough to pull of 9/11 without a lot of help. With years of experience as a pilot and being unable to hit the pentagon in a flight simulator until the 4th attempt seemed significant to me. Then knowing the 'dirty tricks' of the Intelligence Community, and using mainstream reports and non-classified FBI docs, he pieced something together suggesting that the Saudis and the so called 'national security' apparatus cooked something up in order to create a super-war on super-drugs (my own name for it) because he did mention (as I had thought interesting myself) that the players in this war on terror are the same folks that brought us the glorious war on drugs.

I think the 9/11 'theory' was incidental to his main interest which was justice. For example, he thought KSM was innocent. And though I don't think too many of us let that actually bubble up into our consciousness, that would have to be true if we know someone else was the real masterminde behind it.

Anyway, that's about all I've got on his theories.
 
As to a possible motive for a 'hit', let me bring us back to what we know.

The investigation and reporting were hogwash. I'd use more colorful language if I knew it would get posted.

Analyzing what we DO know as a black box, we can see that the input is nonsense and the output is confusion.

My theory then is that the investigation was nonsense in order to produce confusion. And the purpose of that confusion is to distract people, to cause discussion about 'possible scenarios' that would better explain (for example) "the kids appeared to have been sleeping" through getting shot indoors with an unsilence glock 9.

And the reason I think that could be the purpose of the confusion is because it has the same effect as bank robbers tossing hundred dollar bills up in the air as they run to their getaway car.

But now, who threw the 100 dollar bills?

So the starting point is to put the pressure on those sheriffs and the coroner whose dismally stupid statements should get them fired for incompetence -- on the spot.

That stops the input to the black box.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
i noticed that he failed to offer any proof of his allegation of 30 years of sexual abuse of children by the cia. Can we see that please?
were on earth would you find proof of a covert cia program ? The public library? The cia website?
 
were on earth would you find proof of a covert cia program ? The public library? The cia website?
This is kind of a side-topic, but indeed there was a time... Whistleblowers weren't punished so harshly to protect the guilty as they are now.

Notice any similarities between the Sirhan Sirhan thing and Marshall's theory?

The money trail seems to lead to the Saudis and the suspicious aided exit of the bin Laden clan looks odd, but that could be to make them easy targets -- now bolstered by the 'appearace' of a CIA hit to neutralize a guy that was off the flight path by 5 degrees.

We KNOW the ISI was involved in the creation and arming of al Qaueda, as the CIA's proxies. So... no wait. I'm getting off the subject here.

Just ask yourself if MK_ULTRA-like studies are likely to have stopped just because of the increased secrecy. And what are they doing to those prisoners in Guantanamo?

But back to the topic at hand, here's a couple more interesting tidbits. I think the 'numbers' here are strange as well as the phone call to the flight crew.

------------
Updates:

The mom (Seanie Marshall/Plumber) was interviewed here on Feb 22.
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Mom-of-murdered-children-interviewed

She spent a lot of time with the kids' friends.
--- excerpt
Plummer estimated that 20 to 30 teenagers have slept at her Angels Camp home every night since she returned from Turkey, crammed together in a downstairs room she called “The Cave.”

That wasn’t so different from the state of things during Alex and Macaila’s lives, when at least 10 friends would sleep over each weekend.

--- end excerpt

She planned to talk at some future time about mental illness and guns.

It is not clear where this 'mental illness' diagnosis came from, however, as it appears the Philip Marshall had been given custody of the kids by the courts (unverified but we know where the kids were living).

There's no indication that Philip tried to limit contact with their mother or refused to let them travel with their mom.

Best wishes and deepest condolences for Seanie's loss and for her courage in facing the future that she tried to secure for the children.

Tomorrow is another day, mom. Stay strong.

And here's another tidbit dated a few days before the interview above:
http://www.santabarbaraview.com/phi...out-a-conspiracy-was-he-victim-of-one4254252/

--- excerpt about 80% down the page
Ann February 19, 2013 at 4:31 pm #

I know the crew who flew his wife home — they were called by the airline and ordered not to speak to her. Why? Very unusual.
--- end excerpt

Note the order of events and the numbers of children involved.

And I also happened across a bit of his writing that suggests that his book (which he didn't intend to take a single penny for) was written primarily for folks that fly, not for folks that already are up to speed on decoding nonsense.

For those people I think he did a fantastic job introducing the paradoxes and oxymorons in the 'official' theory about the 9/11 attacks. And whether he intended to or not, the 'official' theory about his own death is just such an oxymoron.

At such a price. But it's perfect.

Walk the friendly skies, Cap'm. We shall all meet again.
 
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
People i have never heard of this guy untill today and i am not one of those that follow conspiracy theories but based on facts officially reported about the crime seen and
my deductive reasoning i believe he was murdered. Creime scene analysis follows:
Both children were found to be sleeping when they died during autopsy:- only two probablities, they were killed simulatously which requires two guns or they were killed by
a professional assasin using some sort of muffler to silence the gun (which reportedly belongs to the father) . both scenarios point to the father being framed.
The family dog found in Bedroom:- unless the dog had seen a stranger it wouldn't have gone to the family bedroom. given the fact there were no laud gun shots , the dog should have been found dead near the sofa where the children were found.
The father was found close to the main door: this indicates the father was killed as soon as he entered his house before he could notice his murdered children . this was done most probably because the killers didn't want to physically subdue him there by leaving signs of struggle which would have been found in autopsy.
Side door open :- sorry guys but i think i have said enough .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
People i have never heard of this guy untill today and i am not one of those that follow conspiracy theories but based on facts officially reported about the crime seen and
my deductive reasoning i believe he was murdered. Creime scene analysis follows:
Both children were found to be sleeping when they died during autopsy:- only two probablities, they were killed simulatously which requires two guns or they were killed by
a professional assasin using some sort of muffler to silence the gun (which reportedly belongs to the father) . both scenarios point to the father being framed.
The family dog found in Bedroom:- unless the dog had seen a stranger it wouldn't have gone to the family bedroom. given the fact there were no laud gun shots , the dog should have been found dead near the sofa where the children were found.
The father was found close to the main door: this indicates the father was killed as soon as he entered his house before he could notice his murdered children . this was done most probably because the killers didn't want to physically subdue him there by leaving signs of struggle which would have been found in autopsy.
Side door open :- sorry guys but i think i have said enough .

Of how about this:

He walks into the room where the kids are sleeping. Bang, bang within 1 second. Kids are dead. Dog was shut in bedroom, he goes there, bang, dog dead. Walks downstairs, mind racing, thinks about leaving, shoots himself in the head.

That explanation fits the facts, and is entirely uncomplicated. Your explanation requires some kind of assassin, an incredible amount of risk, and a police cover-up.
 

xenon

Active Member
Of how about this:

He walks into the room where the kids are sleeping. Bang, bang within 1 second. Kids are dead. Dog was shut in bedroom, he goes there, bang, dog dead. Walks downstairs, mind racing, thinks about leaving, shoots himself in the head.

That explanation fits the facts, and is entirely uncomplicated. Your explanation requires some kind of assassin, an incredible amount of risk, and a police cover-up.
That explanation assumes facts not in evidence. The kids were found in the living room, on the couch, according to LEO press releases.

Where is the evidence that he shot the gun? Have the GSR tests been released and I've missed them? From what I've read of his writings, and heard from his interviews, he was driven to expose what he thought was documented evidence the 19 hijackers were trained in the US. Have you listened to even 5 minutes of either interview posted upthread?

What risk to the assassin is involved, besides the obvious? Look at an aerial view of his house and neighborhood. Anyone could have walked right into his backyard at night without anyone else noticing a thing.


All I want is the truth. I'm sure you do too. We're on the same side in that regard.

SO: Release the GSR tests, and surely if he did it as you describe above, 4 gunshots from an unsilenced 9mm glock-- most likely at night- (no silencer has been reported found with the gun) would have been heard by someone? Maybe not. Let's see the manuscript for the new book too- where is his computer?

Let us all remember: This man was a highly qualified Captain of 5 classes of Boeing Jets:
727,737,747,757,and the 767. They don't give out those ratings to just any old drifter. He had plenty of psychological testing throughout his career, you can count on that.

Release the GSR tests!

It's extremely disturbing how this country is abandoning the bill of rights. Doesn't that bother you?

Innocent until proven guilty. That's not just a cute saying. That is what made US different. We're no linger so much different, are we. Is it now "presumed guilty until proven innocent? There was a 16 yr old kid in Yemen who might have an opinion on that--- but he's dead.

Look, we've got a president now who can't even be bothered to answer the question of whether he thinks he has the power to assassinate at will even on US soil.

That ought to bother every single American, especially in this context. But it does NOT. FOR SHAME.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
That explanation assumes facts not in evidence. The kids were found in the living room, on the couch, according to LEO press releases.
How does that not fit my explanation?

He walks into the room where the kids are sleeping. Bang, bang within 1 second. Kids are dead. Dog was shut in bedroom, he goes there, bang, dog dead. Walks downstairs, mind racing, thinks about leaving, shoots himself in the head.
 

xenon

Active Member
How does that not fit my explanation?

He walks into the room where the kids are sleeping. Bang, bang within 1 second. Kids are dead. Dog was shut in bedroom, he goes there, bang, dog dead. Walks downstairs, mind racing, thinks about leaving, shoots himself in the head.
The kids were found on a couch in the living room, according to LEO press releases. Why were they sleeping in the living room on a school night (if they were shot on THU night- they didn't go to school FRI.)

Do you think 4 shots from a 9mm unsilenced Glock would be heard next door? Across the street? I do, and I'm currently doing a little digging on that.

Third, he supposedly shot himself in the left side of his head, while reportedly being right handed? This may not be correct, but you didn't answer my most important question:

Why are you presuming him guilty without a shred of hard evidence? It's a trend, isn't it. It's as anti American as one can get.

************************************************


Phillip Marshall said the Saudi Hijackers had ties to the Saudi Royal Family.

Here's an excerpt from a report from whowhatwhy.com from 2011:

Saudi Royal Ties to 9/11 Hijackers Via Florida Saudi Family?

WhoWhatWhy has found evidence linking the Saudi royal family to Saudis in South Florida who reportedly had direct contact with the 9/11 hijackers before fleeing the United States just prior to the attacks. Our report connects some of the dots first laid out by investigative author Anthony Summers and Florida-based journalist Dan Christensen in articles jointly published in the Miami Herald and on the nonprofit news site BrowardBulldog.org.

In early September of this year, Summers and Christensen reported that a secret FBI probe, never shared with Congressional investigators or the presidential 9/11 commission, had uncovered information indicating the possibility of support for the hijackers from previously unknown confederates in the United States during 2001.

Now WhoWhatWhy reveals that those alleged confederates were closely tied to influential members of the Saudi ruling elite.

As reported in the Herald, phone records documented communication, dating back more than a year, that connected a Saudi family then living in a house near Sarasota, Florida, with the alleged plot leader, Mohammed Atta, and his hijack pilots—as well as to eleven of the other hijackers. In addition, records from the guard house at the gated community tied Atta’s vehicle and his accomplice Ziad Jarrah to actual visits to the house. Although requiring further investigation, this information suggests that the house may have functioned as an operational base for the hijackers.

According to interviews and records examined by The Herald, Anoud and Abdulazzi al-Hiijjii and their young twins abruptly departed their home in Sarasota only days before September 11, 2001 and traveled to Arlington, Virginia, where they stayed briefly at another house owned by Anoud’s father, Esam Ghazzawi.

Then, still well before 9/11, the entire group, now including the father, flew to London and on to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. The Sarasota house was sold in 2003, as was a penthouse apartment in another DC, suburb, Rosslyn, Virginia. The Ghazzawis do not seem to have set foot again in the United States.

New Revelations

Building on these revelations, WhoWhatWhy has found documents laying out the Ghazzawis’ royal connections through a nest of Saudi corporations that share the name EIRAD. Esam Ghazzawi is director of EIRAD Management Company, the UK division of EIRAD Trading and Contracting Co. Ltd., which among other things holds the Saudi franchise for many multinational brands, including UPS. Esam’s brother Mamdouh, whose name shows up on public records associated with family properties in the U.S., is the Executive Managing Director of the parent firm, EIRAD Holding Co. Ltd. EIRAD has connections to the US government via contracts. In 2008, records show, the State Department paid EIRAD $11,733 for rental of facilities, presumably in Saudi Arabia.

There is no indication that the company itself, or any of its officers or employees, have any connection to the 9/11 incident, or knowledge of anything regarding Mr. Ghazzawi’s activities in the United States. Calls for comment to the company’s main switchboard went unanswered during normal business hours; its website was not functioning properly and Saudi trade officials in the United States had not furnished alternative contact information at publication time.

But the now-revealed link between the Ghazzawis and the highest ranks of the Saudi establishment reopens questions about the White House’s controversial approval for multiple charter flights allowing Saudi nationals to depart the U.S., beginning about 48 hours after the attacks, without the passengers being interviewed by law enforcement—despite the identification of the majority of the hijackers as Saudis.

In addition, the new revelations draw further attention to a web of relationships that include the long and close business, personal and political ties between the Bush family and the Saudi royal family.

Saudi money is woven throughout business ventures connected to the Bushes. Saudi funds even helped bail out George W. Bush’s failing oil company early in his life. Jim Bath, a close friend of Bush in the Texas Air National Guard, went on to start a business in conjunction with two sons of powerful Saudi families—Khalid bin Mahfouz, whose family provides banking services to the Saudi royals, and Salem bin Laden, heir to the bin Laden family’s global construction empire and a half brother to Osama bin Laden. (For a detailed probe of the Bush family’s dealings with the Saudis, including substantial previously unreported material, see my book, Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty, America’s Invisible Government and the Hidden History of the Last Fifty Years.)

Details of The Herald’s Revelations

The Ghazzawi presence in the Sunshine State predated 9/11 by at least six years. In 1995 a young Saudi woman named Anoud Ghazzawi living in South Florida married a fellow Saudi native, Abdulazzi al-Hiijjii (English spellings of his first name and surname vary, as is typical of Arabic names.) Anoud’s father, Esam, and his American-born wife Deborah bought the couple a stylish, three-bedroom house in a gated community in Sarasota. The house remained in the elder Ghazzawis’ names while the young couple lived there and began a family.

Six years later, less than two weeks before the 9/11 attacks, Anoud, Abdulazzi and their children left their home on or about August 30, 2001 in great haste, taking off in a white van. This was about the same time that the hijackers were purchasing their tickets for the targeted flights.

The family apparently left with no advance planning, leaving behind almost all their possessions, abandoning three recently registered vehicles, including a brand-new Chrysler PT Cruiser, in the garage and driveway. As the Herald article explained:

“there was mail on the table, dirty diapers in one of the bathrooms … all the toiletries still in place … all their clothes hanging in the closet … opulent furniture, equal or greater in value than the house … the pool running, with toys in it….The beds were made … fruit on the counter … the refrigerator full of food. … It was like they went grocery shopping. Like they went out to a movie … [But] the safe was open in the master bedroom, with nothing in it, not a paper clip. … A computer was still there. A computer plug in another room, and the line still there. Looked like they’d taken [another] computer and left the cord.”

After public disclosure of Saudi involvement in the 9/11 attacks, people in the gated community took note of the rushed departure and disappearance of the Ghazzawi-al-Hiijjiis. After all, the attackers were not just overwhelmingly of Saudi nationality, but three out of four of the future hijackers had lived and trained to fly in Venice, Florida, just 10 miles away from the house.

The complex’s security officer alerted the FBI, which began an investigation into the house at 4224 Escondito Circle. (In addition, a suspicious neighbor alerted the FBI by email on the day of the attacks.)

The Justice Department declined to give the Herald a statement, but, according to an unnamed senior counterterrorism officer who was one of two people who got into the house first and served as a key source for the paper, the investigation bore stunning fruit.


Ziad Jarrah

Phone records showed communication, dating back more than a year, that connected those in the house with the alleged plot leader, Mohammed Atta and his accomplices, including eleven of the other hijackers. Other records, kept by guards at the gated community, documented numerous visits to the house by a vehicle known to have been used by Atta, and indicated the physical presence in the car of Atta’s purported accomplice Ziad Jarrah. It appeared as if the Ghazzawi house was some kind of nerve center for the entire operation.

According to the senior counterterrorism officer, both Esam Ghazzawi and his son-in-law al-Hiijjii had been on a watch list at the FBI predating 9/11. An unnamed U.S. agency tracking terror funds had also taken an interest in them. “464 was Ghazzawi’s number,” the officer said. “I don’t remember the other man’s number.”

Continue to Page 2 of 3

http://whowhatwhy.com/2011/09/22/sau...audi-family-0/

marshallfamily.jpg

Is it really too much to wait for hard evidence before pronouncing this highly qualified pilot and by all accounts a loving kind father GUILTY?

apparently it is. The Republic has died, before Marshall. Maybe it's good that he not see the final collapse.



What if Phillip Marshall was right? What if he WAS assassinated in the dark of night?

What then?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The kids were found on a couch in the living room, according to LEO press releases. Why were they sleeping in the living room on a school night (if they were shot on THU night- they didn't go to school FRI.)

Do you think 4 shots from a 9mm unsilenced Glock would be heard next door? Across the street? I do, and I'm currently doing a little digging on that.

Third, he supposedly shot himself in the left side of his head, while reportedly being right handed? This may not be correct, but you didn't answer my most important question:

Why are you presuming him guilty without a shred of hard evidence? It's a trend, isn't it. It's as anti American as one can get.
I'm not presuming anything. I'm pointing out bunk. It's bunk to suggest that the kids could not have been shot without waking them up. It's bunk to suggest that kids sleeping on a sofa is in any way unusual. It's bunk to suggest someone MUST have heard the shots and called the police. It's bunk to claim he shot himself wrong-handedly without supporting evidence.
 
Good discussion, guys, but I think Xenon is a bit ahead here.

Specifically about the Philip Marshall case since there's nothing but 'hearsay' being passed off as 'evidence', the only things we can say that aren't either a bluff or complete guess work is... The sheriffs did a suspiciously crappy job.

I want to continue here with something I intended to upload before I dropped by.

I'll put it in the next post.
 
We are not writing a novel based on a true story, we are writing a true story.

Don't overshoot the mark. The sheriffs are the loose end of this Gordion Knot. They lost, misplaced, hid, or destroyed the evidence.

If they did it under someone else's command, the sheriffs are still the place to start.

Hearsay is all we've got from them. But bullets don't vanish. Do the fatal bullets match the alleged weapon used? This evidence would have to be deliberatly lost.

And it's a good pressure point because...
Find 'tarquin' here (feb 5, 2013).
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_71f9b8da-6e27-11e2-99e8-001a4bcf887a.html
Phil was NOT depressed. He did NOT take his life. He did NOT murder his kids. Only a few days ago he said that "I have a gun, but it would be useless if I needed it because I got no bullets for it", (then he laughed!). I knew Phil, and he had everything to live for and he doted over his two beautiful kids.

He may not have had ANY bullets!

We don't know and after this sophomoric bs fairy tale they've passed around as their 'theory' of what happened, anyone's word is as good as theirs.

Right?

Ballistics test. Do the fatal wounds even match the caliber.

We don't know. It's a shame, but we don't. Who anywhere in this entire nation truly believes that the murderer or murderers may not still at large somewhere? Maybe even still in Calaveras. Anyone?

What is the public confidence level in this disgraceful excuse for an 'investigation'?

Zero, by my count.

Roll up... roll up for the mystery tour.

Let there be light.

[You guys are great. Thanks! -rs]
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
We are not writing a novel based on a true story, we are writing a true story.

Don't overshoot the mark. The sheriffs are the loose end of this Gordion Knot. They lost, misplaced, hid, or destroyed the evidence.

If they did it under someone else's command, the sheriffs are still the place to start.

Hearsay is all we've got from them. But bullets don't vanish. Do the fatal bullets match the alleged weapon used? This evidence would have to be deliberatly lost.

And it's a good pressure point because...
Find 'tarquin' here (feb 5, 2013).
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_71f9b8da-6e27-11e2-99e8-001a4bcf887a.html
Phil was NOT depressed. He did NOT take his life. He did NOT murder his kids. Only a few days ago he said that "I have a gun, but it would be useless if I needed it because I got no bullets for it", (then he laughed!). I knew Phil, and he had everything to live for and he doted over his two beautiful kids.

He may not have had ANY bullets!

We don't know and after this sophomoric bs fairy tale they've passed around as their 'theory' of what happened, anyone's word is as good as theirs.

Right?

Ballistics test. Do the fatal wounds even match the caliber.

We don't know. It's a shame, but we don't. Who anywhere in this entire nation truly believes that the murderer or murderers may not still at large somewhere? Maybe even still in Calaveras. Anyone?

What is the public confidence level in this disgraceful excuse for an 'investigation'?

Zero, by my count.

Roll up... roll up for the mystery tour.

Let there be light.

[You guys are great. Thanks! -rs]
Well said . . . we need more information . . . that goes without saying . . .
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
We are not writing a novel based on a true story, we are writing a true story.

Don't overshoot the mark. The sheriffs are the loose end of this Gordion Knot. They lost, misplaced, hid, or destroyed the evidence.
Can you be specific. What evidence are you referring to?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well said . . . we need more information . . . that goes without saying . . .
No, it goes with saying. You to explain what evidence is missing and why you should have it at this point in time.

If you really think that, then why don't you contact the sheriff's office?

http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/PressReleases/tabid/383/FolderID/1420/Default.aspx
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Portals/sheriff/Press/2013/Update-Correction_on_Murder-Suicide.pdf

Or just wait a bit.

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_9bd1ca7e-8292-11e2-a630-0019bb2963f4.html

 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
No, it goes with saying. You to explain what evidence is missing and why you should have it at this point in time.

If you really think that, then why don't you contact the sheriff's office?

http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/PressReleases/tabid/383/FolderID/1420/Default.aspx
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Portals/sheriff/Press/2013/Update-Correction_on_Murder-Suicide.pdf

Or just wait a bit.

http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_9bd1ca7e-8292-11e2-a630-0019bb2963f4.html

Geeez Mick . . . It is the information still to be released. . . .
 

xenon

Active Member


Just posting for the record- and waiting for the evidence. Please don't accuse me of being a PressTV dupe. I'm not a CNN dupe either, have they covered this at all? I don't watch Wolfie and the Psyops crew anymore.

At least some media are covering this. The lack of coverage here in the US is strange, especially since there is a nationwide push for gun control. I'm sure there are good reasons for that, but I can't think of any right off hand.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Geeez Mick . . . It is the information still to be released. . . .
Then just wait.

The implication of most of the above posts is that something is being covered up, when really it seems like information is being released at the rate these things normally are. So why so suspicious?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member


Just posting for the record- and waiting for the evidence. Please don't accuse me of being a PressTV dupe. I'm not a CNN dupe either, have they covered this at all? I don't watch Wolfie and the Psyops crew anymore.

At least some media are covering this. The lack of coverage here in the US is strange, especially since there is a nationwide push for gun control. I'm sure there are good reasons for that, but I can't think of any right off hand.
Perhaps if he had shot the kids with an assault rifle?

Really it's NOT strange if in fact there's no conspiracy. It is JUST a murder suicide, the type of which happens all the time. The conspiracy community is just very interest in it because of who he is. But to the rest of the world, he's just some guy, and a slightly eccentric one at that.

You are not going to devote any effort to investigating the deaths of the Grovers, are you? But it's basically the same:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/sikh-family-killed-murder-suicide-cops-article-1.1255683

Same kind of thing, unexpected murder, classified as a murder-suicide, police "not sure" how the victims died, how did nobody hear anything. All seems rather suspicious. Is the lack of coverage of that case suspicious? No, it's just a murder suicide. They happen all the time. They don't make the news.
 

xenon

Active Member
Well isn't this interesting:

Obama Administration Says President Can Use Lethal Force Against Americans on US Soil
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/201...an-use-lethal-force-against-americans-us-soil

Yes, the president does have the authority to use military force against American citizens on US soil—but only in "an extraordinary circumstance," Attorney General Eric Holder said in a letter to Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.) Tuesday.

"The U.S. Attorney General's refusal to rule out the possibility of drone strikes on American citizens and on American soil is more than frightening," Paul said Tuesday. "It is an affront the constitutional due process rights of all Americans."

Last month, Paul threatened to filibuster the nomination of John Brennan, Obama's pick to head the CIA, "until he answers the question of whether or not the President can kill American citizens through the drone strike program on U.S. soil." Tuesday, Brennan told Paul that "the agency I have been nominated to lead does not conduct lethal operations inside the United States—nor does it have any authority to do so." Brennan said that the Justice Department would answer Paul's question about whether Americans could be targeted for lethal strikes on US soil.

Holder's answer was more detailed, however, stating that under certain circumstances, the president would have the authority to order lethal attacks on American citizens. The two possible examples of such "extraordinary" circumstances were the attack on Pearl Harbor and the 9/11 terrorist attacks. An American president order the use of lethal military force inside the US is "entirely hypothetical, unlikely to occur, and one we hope no president will ever have to confront," Holder wrote. Here's the bulk of the letter:
(EXCERPT-- MORE at link>>)​


How has it come to this? How did the American people allow this to happen?

It's ROME all over again, only with a compressed time frame. What a disgrace to those that founded this country.
For shame.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Well isn't this interesting:

Obama Administration Says President Can Use Lethal Force Against Americans on US Soil
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/201...an-use-lethal-force-against-americans-us-soil
Yes, the president does have the authority to use military force against American citizens on US soil—but only in "an extraordinary circumstance," Attorney General Eric Holder said in a letter to Senator Rand Paul (R-Ky.) Tuesday.

"The U.S. Attorney General's refusal to rule out the possibility of drone strikes on American citizens and on American soil is more than frightening," Paul said Tuesday. "It is an affront the constitutional due process rights of all Americans."

Last month, Paul threatened to filibuster the nomination of John Brennan, Obama's pick to head the CIA, "until he answers the question of whether or not the President can kill American citizens through the drone strike program on U.S. soil." Tuesday, Brennan told Paul that "the agency I have been nominated to lead does not conduct lethal operations inside the United States—nor does it have any authority to do so." Brennan said that the Justice Department would answer Paul's question about whether Americans could be targeted for lethal strikes on US soil.

Holder's answer was more detailed, however, stating that under certain circumstances, the president would have the authority to order lethal attacks on American citizens. The two possible examples of such "extraordinary" circumstances were the attack on Pearl Harbor and the 9/11 terrorist attacks. An American president order the use of lethal military force inside the US is "entirely hypothetical, unlikely to occur, and one we hope no president will ever have to confront," Holder wrote. Here's the bulk of the letter:
(EXCERPT-- MORE at link>>)​


How has it come to this? How did the American people allow this to happen?

It's ROME all over again, only with a compressed time frame. What a disgrace to those that founded this country.
For shame.
So, if an american citizen were piloting a suicide plane heading for the Superbowl, then you'd be fine not having it shot down by the military?

They are simply not ruling such things out.

But isn't this a little off-topic?
 

xenon

Active Member
another longer presstv.com clip- a debate between one who thinks Marshall is guilty and one who does not.



Anyone reading this thread will know much more about the Marshall case than this Kaplan character. He makes a fool of himself and it's quite fun to watch. From now on I'll know that when Kaplan's mouth moves, he's either ignorant or lying.
 

xenon

Active Member
So, if an american citizen were piloting a suicide plane heading for the Superbowl, then you'd be fine not having it shot down by the military?

They are simply not ruling such things out.

But isn't this a little off-topic?
Since the American people have been bilked for half a billion dollars per year for "defense" i'd hope that if a plane was flying into the super bowl it would be shot down. That power exists now. Obama the "constitutional scholar" is claiming something different. It's more complicated than "not ruling things out". See: Rand Paul's speech today (or any part of it, who could watch the whole thing?).

How is posting a story about how the president thinks he has the authority to kill American citizens on American soil off topic when the topic is the possible murder of someone who claimed to have new proof of what happened on 911?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Since the American people have been bilked for half a billion dollars per year for "defense" i'd hope that if a plane was flying into the super bowl it would be shot down. That power exists now. Obama the "constitutional scholar" is claiming something different. It's more complicated than "not ruling things out". See: Rand Paul's speech today (or any part of it, who could watch the whole thing?).
What is he claiming that is different to not ruling things out?


How is posting a story about how the president thinks he has the authority to kill American citizens on American soil off topic when the topic is the possible murder of someone who claimed to have new proof of what happened on 911?
Clearly Obama is not claiming he can have his guys sneak into peoples houses and murder them and their children and make it look like a murder suicide and make the cops cover the whole thing up.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Since the American people have been bilked for half a billion dollars per year for "defense" i'd hope that if a plane was flying into the super bowl it would be shot down. That power exists now. Obama the "constitutional scholar" is claiming something different. It's more complicated than "not ruling things out". See: Rand Paul's speech today (or any part of it, who could watch the whole thing?).
And if the only option was to use the military, you'd be fine not using it, as we'd spent so much money on 'defense', so let's just let them bomb the superbowl to make a point?
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned


Just posting for the record- and waiting for the evidence. Please don't accuse me of being a PressTV dupe. I'm not a CNN dupe either, have they covered this at all? I don't watch Wolfie and the Psyops crew anymore.

At least some media are covering this. The lack of coverage here in the US is strange, especially since there is a nationwide push for gun control. I'm sure there are good reasons for that, but I can't think of any right off hand.
Good research:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2000/03/26/cnn-and-psyops/

Astonishing? I thought everybody knew, but it is good to have it in black and white.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
another longer presstv.com clip- a debate between one who thinks Marshall is guilty and one who does not.



Anyone reading this thread will know much more about the Marshall case than this Kaplan character. He makes a fool of himself and it's quite fun to watch. From now on I'll know that when Kaplan's mouth moves, he's either ignorant or lying.

Kaplan... 'Don't interrupt my BS, I am only allowed to interrupt you...Don't listen to him, he's a conspiracy theorist and we are on Iranian TV'.... lol
 
Can you be specific. What evidence are you referring to?
Hi Mick.

1. Evidence already destroyed is the crime scene. That's been verified by several sources.

2. The paraffin test can't be done if the bodies themselves have been buried, cremated, or whatever they may have done. This could detect if the dad had fired any gun at all -- which would be part of the defense for the accused (Amendment 6, US Const). He's dead, but on top of that the media is assassinating his character. His kids can't clear his name so it's up to us to try to assure the deceased at least gets a fair media trial. It's a travesty any way you look at it but he deserves to be remembered for what he was, whether a murderer or a victim.

3. There was a box of bullets at the crime scene, not part of an official revelation, but leaked to the press and to Madsen. The kids are to be cremated, according to the mom. Lead does not burn, but it does melt. If the bullets were removed from all of the victims (which we don't know because the coroner is acting as brain dead as the sheriffs) they should still be in the evidence despite their apparent desire for their hearsay to be the only evidence anywhere. But even if the lead melts in the cremation residue, the mass of the lead could tell us if it's even the RIGHT CALIBER. (I'm not shouting at you, I just want to highlight that for anyone passing by. There's no indication the fatal shots were from a 9mm glock -- because this investigation is such a HACK JOB. ;-)

4. Bedding if any. There has been zero mention of bedding or anything else to indicate how the sheriffs came to the conclusion that the kids were alseep when they were shot, point blank, in the temples.

There might be other stuff, but that's the kind of 'evidence' I was talking about.
 
Mick.

The problem with "just wait" is two fold. Some of the evidence I mentioned is being destroyed by the time elapsing and the other is peoples' attention span. ;-)

I wish we could trust these folks to do the right thing 'eventually', but with this as Act 1, the so called delays in the toxicology results (the only test we know is being done) even look dilatory. And yes, surprise-surprise, it's now been delayed about two weeks which tends to support Madsen's theory, at least circumstantially, that this is was hit by someone with government connections.

If the culprits are the sheriffs themselves, the "just wait" solution is just asking for a successful cover up.

We may have to wait, but if we do, chances are 99.9 percent that the real murderer(s) will never be known.

But there's always the 0.1 percent... that keeps us citizen cops on the bad guys' tails! :)

You guys are great. Thanks for this forum.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
"Citizen cops", there's the problem.

There's a reason why specific trained individuals, working within a system, are the ones to investigate crimes and administer justice. I don't think you are suggesting a system of pure vigilantism, are you? Nor are you suggesting that in every death investigation, the police should immediately make every single piece of evidence public?

So what are you suggesting? That there are special circumstances here? How are these special circumstances defined? What do they mean? Would they stand up in a neutral court?

Or do you think there needs to be changes to the system in general? Greater accountability and transparency somehow? Of should Internal Affairs be called in? Or should a lay civilian body be set up with oversight of the police?

Your suggestion here is that the Sheriffs are murderers. But the logical extension of that suggestion is that the police should not investigate any crime, because they themselves might have committed it.

If there really is a conspiracy in place of such breadth and power that they can simply order the local police to assassinate someone and their family and then cover it up, then wouldn't that imply you've already lost? Such a conspiracy seems unimaginable in scope. Fortunately it does not seem to tally with reality. Policemen baulk at the murder of children.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
"Citizen cops", there's the problem.

There's a reason why specific trained individuals, working within a system, are the ones to investigate crimes and administer justice. I don't think you are suggesting a system of pure vigilantism, are you? Nor are you suggesting that in every death investigation, the police should immediately make every single piece of evidence public?

So what are you suggesting? That there are special circumstances here? How are these special circumstances defined? What do they mean? Would they stand up in a neutral court?

Or do you think there needs to be changes to the system in general? Greater accountability and transparency somehow? Of should Internal Affairs be called in? Or should a lay civilian body be set up with oversight of the police?

Your suggestion here is that the Sheriffs are murderers. But the logical extension of that suggestion is that the police should not investigate any crime, because they themselves might have committed it.

If there really is a conspiracy in place of such breadth and power that they can simply order the local police to assassinate someone and their family and then cover it up, then wouldn't that imply you've already lost? Such a conspiracy seems unimaginable in scope. Fortunately it does not seem to tally with reality. Policemen baulk at the murder of children.
Not that this story is related to the thread but you seem to have inordinate faith in the police being moral just and basically the good guys who do not do bad things.

That simply is not the case in many instances. They need watching precisely because they have so much power.

The below shows a systemic lack of due regard for due process and the care of arrestees. This was not down to one or two cops, it was systemic... lots knew but subsequently denied it.

Now they have been caught out they are promising to change... how long has this gone on and how long would it have continued had this guy not managed to bring a successful case?

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/07/justice/new-mexico-inmate-settlement/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

 

xenon

Active Member
In anticipation of the release of the GSR Report:
From the archives:
http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_71f9b8da-6e27-11e2-99e8-001a4bcf887a.html

Hewitt said investigators believe the murders occurred sometime between
Thursday and Saturday morning. Hewitt said the coroner will take a liver
temperature to get a more accurate time of death.
No neighbors reported hearing any gun shots, Hewitt said.

“The gun was not silenced,” he said. “The houses are not very close
together and if they are well built and insulated with all the windows and
doors closed, the shots would have been muffled.”


Jeff Woods, who lives directly across the street from Marshall, said he did
hear strange noises late Friday night while he worked in his downstairs
office.


“I was working with the television on in the background when I heard an
unusual noise,” Woods said. “I stopped working and went upstairs, turned
the lights on and looked around. I didn’t hear anything else, so I went
back downstairs. Not too long after that, I heard another strange noise. I
muted the television and listened for a second without hearing anything
else.” http://www.calaverasenterprise.com/news/article_71f9b8da-6e27-11e2-99e8-001a4bcf887a.html

>>>>Did anyone think to ask Jeff Woods what time "Late Friday" is?

Because the kids didn't go to school Friday, according to LEO Press releases,
wouldn't that be important?


What is the decibel of a gunshot?
Answer:
According to the NRA:
"Gunshot decibel levels, measured by John S. Odess, M.D., ranged between 143.5 from a .22 short to 174.4 from a .458 Win. Mag (American Rifleman, "Hear No Evil," March, 1996)."Subsonic "gallery" rounds can be as low as 90 decibels, but the average is 133 for all calibers as measured at certifiedreloader dotcom.

The next step is to find out how far 150dB travels on a quiet night in the foothills in the winter (no leaves on trees).

A comment from another site:

One would think journalists would have some loyalty to the people
murdered on 9/11. Meaning the best way to honor the victims would be to
find out why they were murdered. Instead we have a media mindset of
arrogance and authoritarian cheerleading. To the point where Marshall is
derided as some sort of whacky conspiracy nut for daring to claim the
Saudis and CIA were involved in facilitating 9/11. This just so happens to
be supported by public record information. But because it is not
establishment consensus the media pretends it is conspiracy nuttery. I
read articles, blogs and message boards about the Marshall murders and it
is very sad the way many people are evidently pleased by their allegiance
to a government approved 9/11 narrative...

The media in the US is held to a pathetic standard of conduct. They
should feel nothing but shame because Marshall did their job. Instead they
self righteously mock him for failing to buy their line of authoritarian
cheerleading. Hey media ****** it isn't impressive for you to make fun
of Marshall for trying to understand why almost 3,000 people were
murdered. Respecting the victims doesn't mean turning your back on
them in some bizarre display of allegiance to CIA bs.

When the GSR Report comes out hopefully there will be some "Reporters" or "Journalists"
in attendance. Hope is for children though...



 
Last edited by a moderator:

JRBids

Senior Member.
So, if an american citizen were piloting a suicide plane heading for the Superbowl, then you'd be fine not having it shot down by the military?

They are simply not ruling such things out.

But isn't this a little off-topic?

Perhaps xenon thinks the president ordered him killed.
 
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