Phillip Marshall, 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist, Apparent Suicide? Or What?

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George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
While it might not be as bad as Lee portrays it, the angst about the US that is . . . I think there is some significant resentment, criticism, even anger toward the big bully in the school yard, who is no longer considered the only one capable of leading . . . I think few would be sad if the US was taken down a few notches . . .
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
The war/strategy game I play, is based out of Germany and it has thousands of players in many countries. They have servers for over 30 different countries. The US and 'world' server are English language servers, as are the Aussie, the South African, and the Indian (dual language) and Pakistani (also dual language).

We have players from many countries on even the US servers. I also 'work' for the game. so I chat with folks from many countries, including 'Muslim' countries. Now, this is not a general selection, but I have not heard of hatred for the US. In fact, none of them have even mentioned that others they know 'hate' the US.

Many of them would LOVE to come to the US and to live/work/go to school here. I don't know where you are getting your information, but it seems to be biased.
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
You left out "the largest supplier of humanitarian aid in the world", "birthplace of the Internet", and some other little things like being at the forefront of innovation in science & engineering for the better party of a century.


I think you are largely mistaken about the world's perception of the US. There are few non-Muslim countries that as part of their doctrine are "anti-American"(in addition to there being few Muslim countries that are). I'm curious if you can show me a video of people rioting and burning American flags in a non-Muslim country.

Oh, it's you, The Apologist.

humanitarian aid

How naive.

the Internet

Lol. Turing.

forefront of innovation in science & engineering

Nope. In the US, many professors and most students are foreign! You lot ain't that bright, clearly. The only thing the US has been at the forefront of for the past 100 years, is rampant imperialism. Are you blind?

I think you are largely mistaken about the world's perception of the US

Do you? Where do you live? Lol!

There are few non-Muslim countries that as part of their doctrine are "anti-American"(in addition to there being few Muslim countries that are). I'm curious if you can show me a video of people rioting and burning American flags in a non-Muslim country

Makes no sense at all. If you feel the need (as you appear to) to see a burning flag, go and buy one, along with a box of matches. In fact, I'd happily burn one of 'your' 'flags' - how about that?
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
lee, do you live in the US?

Thousands of folks from around the world want to move to the US. I wonder why, if we are such awful folks
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
lee, do you live in the US?

Thousands of folks from around the world want to move to the US. I wonder why, if we are such awful folks

Hi C - no, I'm not in the US - but please understand, I have nothing but good wishes for all those living there. No-one excepted. You are not awful folks any more than any other folks - the problem is with your government, which does not represent the people (I hope you see that)....etc....
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Which seems more likely to you?

With the amount of custody/access battles going on, I think allegations of that level could be leveled at most people in the west, truther or not, albeit it is true that some parents, mostly fathers, are driven to such drastic action... the fact is many are affected and because it is so widespread, it could easily be used to cover something else... but then again it could easily be what it seems.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
Oh, it's you, The Apologist.

Ad hominem.

lee h oswald said:
How naive.

Explain to me how more than twice the amount of money spent on foreign development aid than the next country is naive...? And that's only government expenditure.
lee h oswald said:
Lol. Turing.

His accomplishments were profound and provide the fundamental basis on which all modern computing rests, but it's not like he made them up out of thin air. He had lots of interaction with other computer scientists, many of them American. Claude Shannon, the father of Information Theory, digital computer and digital circuit design, had lunch with Turing regularly. Turing was also in the US, working with the US Navy, while developing his Universal Turing Machine. You can't escape the fact that the US was the driving force behind the digital revolution in every conceivable sense - Turing died well before it, anyways.

I think Tim Burners-Lee(creator of HTTP) would be a better example, if you're looking for a British computer scientist in order to illustrate the (uninformed) idea that the US had nothing to do with the creation of the Internet.


lee h oswald said:
Nope. In the US, many professors and most students are foreign! You lot ain't that bright, clearly.

I highly doubt that claim, can you back it up? This might be flawed reasoning here, but according to this there's not a single US university with >50% of students being foreigners.

With that said, there is currently a massive influx of foreign students to US schools in the past few years. Could there be a reason for that...?
http://chronicle.com/article/China-Continues-to-Drive/135700/
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...number-international-students-in-us-colleges/

lee h oswald said:
The only thing the US has been at the forefront of for the past 100 years, is rampant imperialism. Are you blind

It seems you have a different definition of Imperialism than I do. Maybe I'm thinking too classically.

lee h oswald said:
Do you? Where do you live? Lol!

What difference does that make? I have friends around the world in many countries. Their sentiment regarding the US is more moderate, they know the US has done bad things but they also appreciate the good things the US has done and continues to do. That is what I base my conclusion upon. I think the majority of people in most countries enjoy our economic activity as we enjoy theirs.

lee h oswald said:
Makes no sense at all. If you feel the need (as you appear to) to see a burning flag, go and buy one, along with a box of matches. In fact, I'd happily burn one of 'your' 'flags' - how about that?

Your response makes no sense. To my knowledge there are only two non-Muslim countries with anti-US sentiment in their doctrine: Cuba and North Korea. Feel free to show me any others you know of.
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
Ad hominem.

It seems you have a different definition of Imperialism than I do. Maybe I'm thinking too classically.

Too many possibilities. But just two, and then I'll entertain no more from you.

Ad hominem? Yes, to a hominem that apologizes for abuse of power. No apology from me for that.

It seems you have a different definition of Imperialism than I do. Maybe I'm thinking too classically.

Yes, you're a classic alright. You have a different definition of imperialism? I hope you're very happy together.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
You can have your opinion, and I will have mine. I am GLAD I live in the US, even with our faults. We and that includes our government is just 'human' and as such, they will do things wrong at times.

Let's look at recent examples in the news. Australia and it's treatment of the Aborigines including the seizure of children and placement of them with 'white' families, that continued into the '90s and beyond--no voting rights until the 80s for them.

What about the current problems in Canada with folks of the First Nations?

Then there is Ireland and Magdalene laundries, the last one closed in 1996.

What about how the UK treated both Ireland and then Northern Ireland during the 'troubles'.

Then there is France and the treatment of the Algerian freedom fighters.

I don't see any country that is free of blame for mistreating it's people or others. The US, in general, does a LOT better job in NOT doing that deliberately.

Government is NEEDED in any group, above the size of a maybe a dozen folks. Folks in the US have more FREEDOMS than other countries allow, and that includes those of Europe. Want to name your child Heaven Sent, can't do that in France. Decide you want to breed your German Shepherd in Germany, be ready for the government to come out and cull your pups at 2 wks. Only 6 at the most will be allowed to LIVE. The others will be destroyed. Want to use Sterling Silver wire to make jewelry to sell in the EU, only if you are willing to have EVERY piece tested to make sure it is SS.

I don't know where you live, but I LIKE the freedoms I have in the US
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
You can have your opinion, and I will have mine. I am GLAD I live in the US, even with our faults. We and that includes our government is just 'human' and as such, they will do things wrong at times.

Let's look at recent examples in the news. Australia and it's treatment of the Aborigines including the seizure of children and placement of them with 'white' families, that continued into the '90s and beyond--no voting rights until the 80s for them.

What about the current problems in Canada with folks of the First Nations?

Then there is Ireland and Magdalene laundries, the last one closed in 1996.

What about how the UK treated both Ireland and then Northern Ireland during the 'troubles'.

Then there is France and the treatment of the Algerian freedom fighters.

I don't see any country that is free of blame for mistreating it's people or others. The US, in general, does a LOT better job in NOT doing that deliberately.

Government is NEEDED in any group, above the size of a maybe a dozen folks. Folks in the US have more FREEDOMS than other countries allow, and that includes those of Europe. Want to name your child Heaven Sent, can't do that in France. Decide you want to breed your German Shepherd in Germany, be ready for the government to come out and cull your pups at 2 wks. Only 6 at the most will be allowed to LIVE. The others will be destroyed. Want to use Sterling Silver wire to make jewelry to sell in the EU, only if you are willing to have EVERY piece tested to make sure it is SS.

I don't know where you live, but I LIKE the freedoms I have in the US


Listen, you make a good point about Australia's treatment of its indigenous people - the ongoing victims of an incomplete program. The rest of it is irrelevant. Great power has always been abused. It happens that the great power being abused right now is mostly by your country. And you 'like it'. And don't forget, C, Australia's biggest mistake is that they didn't finish the job off in good time - not like your country did; a country founded on the genocide of the indigenous people.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
Too many possibilities. But just two, and then I'll entertain no more from you.

Ad hominem? Yes, to a hominem that apologizes for abuse of power. No apology from me for that.

Yes, you're a classic alright. You have a different definition of imperialism? I hope you're very happy together.

So zero rebuttal to the outright falsehoods I've pointed out in your posts. Instead, you chose to focus on snark-laden responses which don't do much to inspire confidence in your claims.

I guess what I was thinking of was colonialism, which is rare if occurring at all today. In a sense, you are correct that the US is guilty of Imperialism according to Feuer's definitions. But so is every other world power. I'd argue the UK is -much- more guilty of this, if we are to pick a "Western" example.

You think I'm an apologist, but I'm just giving some perspective to the hyperboles you put out there.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Finish it off? I think you need to do some more research, buddy. The last census showed almost 3 million Native Americans, and over 8.6 million that are mixed race. One HUGE difference is that we did make sure that they had full voting rights in the 60s (a few states were not allowing them to vote--a problem that was also seen in Australia.

One cannot compare what was done in the 1800s to what is done now.

You call us 'imperialist', but the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated to rebuild their cities and their industries. At the end of WW II, the US could have taken control of much of Europe, we didn't. Look at the difference in what happened in the western parts of Europe and what happened in the eastern areas.

Really, you claim you are at Gitmo---excuse me if DON'T believe you.
 

Jay Reynolds

Senior Member.
This is a bit like the death of conspiracy theorist Bill Cooper, who was shot in the head sometime in November 2001. He was for a long time victim of tax evasion and he was tagged as a major fugitive in 2000. On November 2001, the Apache County's sheriff's deputies attempted to arrest Bill at his house after charges were made against him by his neighbors of " aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and endangerment stemming from earlier disputes with local residents"

As the cops arrived at his house, Bill pulled out a gun on them and started shooting at them, leading to a gun fight between him and the cops. Bill ended up shooting one of them in the head and Cooper was eventually fatally wounded. Despite this, his fans say that the government wanted to get him for "revealing the truth".

Not quite correct. The sheriffs lured Bill out into the night posing as strangers making a ruckus near his house which was on a knoll of land overlooking the town. He confronted them in the dark and probably didn't know at first who he was dealing with. We were friends.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Not quite correct. The sheriffs lured Bill out into the night posing as strangers making a ruckus near his house which was on a knoll of land overlooking the town. He confronted them in the dark and probably didn't know at first who he was dealing with. We were friends.
Do you think he was set up by enemies . . .
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Custody battles, financial collapse and deteriorating physical or mental health are common factors in this type of crime, wrote Richard Gelles, professor and dean of the School of Social Policy and Practice at the University of Pennsylvania, in an email Tuesday.“My quick read (of news clips) and my experience suggests he might have been in a downward spiral of mental illness,” Gelles said.
Man this shit infuriates me. 'Based on pure supposition derived from the media which has absolutely no bearing on the reality of the situation, I'd say he came down with a case of the degenerative crazies..!' and the article features that as if it means something. Nonsense. It's like how CNN will have on TV psychologists/psychiatrists to discuss and diagnose, sometimes for a full hour, people they've never met in person once. It's about as meaningful as having a doctor check your prostate by looking at a picture of your ass.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Man this shit infuriates me. 'Based on pure supposition derived from the media which has absolutely no bearing on the reality of the situation, I'd say he came down with a case of the degenerative crazies..!' and the article features that as if it means something. Nonsense. It's like how CNN will have on TV psychologists/psychiatrists to discuss and diagnose, sometimes for a full hour, people they've never met in person once. It's about as meaningful as having a doctor check your prostate by looking at a picture of your ass.

Well, he does put the words "might have been" in there. I don't think it's an entirely unreasonable suggestion of a possible cause.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
It's not the man's opinion that bothers me, everyone's entitled, it's the importance the article tries to assign to it, as though his opinion were meaningful.

On a side note, having a fair deal of experience with divorce proceedings and just how vicious they can get, this doesn't sound to me like an inordinately hostile separation from what little I can read of it.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Eh, the guy wasn't in financial hardship, his divorce wasn't particularly nasty, and I've seen no real solid indication of him being mentally ill besides the shooting itself. I think every murder-suicide warrants a level of suspicion, whether you're suspicious by nature or not, unless it's an unquestionably open-and-shut case.

I'm not saying I believe this guy was assassinated (I haven't the faintest either way) but if I had to suppose at a motivation for such a killing, I'd go with its ability to discredit over intimidation. What could make a fringe idea seem more crazy than a guy who strongly espouses it murdering his family?

As to the discussion of how America is viewed internationally, it's a long-standing practice of Canadians to wear Canada-flag patches on their clothing/backpacks while abroad to distinguish themselves from Americans, so as not to receive the same treatment/negative assumptions Americans can often expect. As I understand it, it's not at all uncommon for Americans to also wear these Canada-flag patches while traveling abroad, for the very same reason.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Eh, the guy wasn't in financial hardship, his divorce wasn't particularly nasty, and I've seen no real solid indication of him being mentally ill besides the shooting itself. I think every murder-suicide warrants a level of suspicion, whether you're suspicious by nature or not, unless it's an unquestionably open-and-shut case.

Sure, any time someone gets shot, the police will check to see if it's consistent with an actual suicide. Murderers do fake suicides of their victims.

Sure, it would be a great way to discredit a story - make it look like the guy telling it was crazy. But do you really think that's an acceptable risk for the PTB to take? Can you imagine the blowback if it were actually found he was murdered?

Are there cases where someone actually HAS been found to be murdered by the PTB? Or do they have a perfect record so far?

People die. People die in various ways. It's inevitable that some of the people who die will be conspiracy theorists. It's equally inevitable that there will be conspiracy theories about their deaths.

I see nothing at all suspicious about this particular case. It sounds like an ordinary murder-suicide.
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
Finish it off? I think you need to do some more research, buddy. The last census showed almost 3 million Native Americans, and over 8.6 million that are mixed race. One HUGE difference is that we did make sure that they had full voting rights in the 60s (a few states were not allowing them to vote--a problem that was also seen in Australia.

One cannot compare what was done in the 1800s to what is done now.

You call us 'imperialist', but the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated to rebuild their cities and their industries. At the end of WW II, the US could have taken control of much of Europe, we didn't. Look at the difference in what happened in the western parts of Europe and what happened in the eastern areas.

Really, you claim you are at Gitmo---excuse me if DON'T believe you.

So, no genocide of the indigenous people of North America then? Jews (plus homosexuals, gypsies, communists, trade unionists, the physically and mentally disabled) suffered a genocidal rampage at the hands of the Nazis, but they're still here. People have this habit of procreating - it tends to bump the numbers back up.

One HUGE difference is that we did make sure that they had full voting rights in the 60s

Oh, well that's all right then. So, after spending a good few centuries murdering, raping and stealing from the people who were there first, you did what? Gave them a vote. I'm sure that made it all worthwhile for them. You make it sound like they should be grateful.

One cannot compare what was done in the 1800s to what is done now.

Oh but one can. The biggest difference is that you kill people much more efficiently these days. I mean - just about the same time as you were so kindly handing out the less than useless 'gift' of votes for the native Americans, your country was embarked on another genocide - seems to be a trend - in SE Asia. Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. 3 million dead. Did you know that the company Monsanto made the Agent Orange that was sprayed liberally over those three countries? Did you know that today in Vietnam there are an estimated 4.8 million children living today that are victims of the chronic effects of that action, an action taken by your country? We can compare.


You call us 'imperialist', but the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated to rebuild their cities and their industries. At the end of WW II, the US could have taken control of much of Europe, we didn't.

More 'history' from the good ole USofA. I suggest you read up on some actual history. You are completely wrong.

You call us 'imperialist'

No need for inverted commas. The US is an imperial power. Maybe you need a dictionary as well as some proper history books (ie. not US standard issue cobblers).

the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated to rebuild their cities and their industries. At the end of WW II, the US could have taken control of much of Europe, we didn't.

Victor pays the vanquished's debt. It's been a kind of rule for centuries. You're living in the same dreamland that most Americans do - the dream that you lot won the war single handed - frankly, it's idiotic. You don't have a clue what you're talking about here. It's because your establishment (the one that 'gives' you all those 'freedoms', the one you like so well) has made sure you don't know the facts, you are free to be brainwashed and kept ignorant. Shocking.


At the end of WW II, the US could have taken control of much of Europe, we didn't.

Too many Hollywood propaganda movies for you. Try to put aside your unfettered bias and find an alternative narrator.

Really, you claim you are at Gitmo---excuse me if DON'T believe you

Understanding irony not a strong suit either then.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Lee, Yes the people of the good ole USA are easily mislead and we have been fed BS and kept in the dark like mushrooms since probably the late 1700's . . . but in general . . . just like every country I have visited over the years . . . there are fine people here as well just wanting to feed their kids and enjoy a few years of happiness . . . if the American people knew what has always been done in their name they would be generally appalled and sickened . . . I chalk it all up to corporatism . . . a disease that is now worldwide . . . if not the US it would be a different imaginary empire they created to do their bidding . . .
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
Lee, Yes the people of the good ole USA are easily mislead and we have been fed BS and kept in the dark like mushrooms since probably the late 1700's . . . but in general . . . just like every country I have visited over the years . . . there are fine people here as well just wanting to feed their kids and enjoy a few years of happiness . . . if the American people knew what has always been done in their name they would be generally appalled and sickened . . . I chalk it all up to corporatism . . . a disease that is now worldwide . . . if not the US it would be a different imaginary empire they created to do their bidding . . .

I agree with every word, how couldn't I? When I use 'you' in the text, I'm talking about the establishment - don't get me started on the UK, I'm even worse! I have great affection for people generally, and Americans are no exception to that. Apologies if it seemed like a direct assault - I should have been clearer, perhaps.

But ignorance does get my goat, wherever it resides, and it is quite abundant. .
 

xenon

Active Member
Some of what Phil Marshall said was also said by 2 US Senators- Bob Graham and Bob Kerrey-

http://www.santabarbaraview.com/phi...out-a-conspiracy-was-he-victim-of-one4254252/

the following comments might be of interest-

****************************************

His ex wife said, in addition to what has been pointed out above, the following:
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/Ex-wife-gives-insight-into-killers-mind

******

Here he is on Coast 2 Coast (starting at 33:43)
Behind 9/11 : Whistleblowers Susan Lindhauer & Philip Marshall 02.11.2012
Coast to Coast with John Wells
Wells: Marshall held captain ratings in the following aircraft: Boeing 727, 737,747,757,767

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUvEECOl6Zs
Does this man sound crazy to you?

Did Marshall have gunshot residue on his hand? Do we know? is that info going to be released?
This is a very curious case, in any event.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Dated feb 3.
The Sheriffs' version:
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/P...Children then Himself in a Murder-Suicide.pdf

----> excerpts
A Murphys man identified as Phillip Marshall (54) took the life of his two juvenile children before taking his own life in an apparent murder-suicide. On February 2, 2013 at 3:10 pm Calaveras Sheriff’s deputies were called to a residence on the 1200 block of Sandalwood Drive in the Forest Meadows subdivision, Murphys, for a suspicious circumstance/welfare check. The reporting parties, who are friends of the two victims, told investigators that they had not heard from the victims since Thursday,

They also discovered the family dog deceased in a bedroom.

The reason for the murder-suicide is unknown at this time.
<----

Questions:

Time of death still being determined. When was the "official time of death" determined to have been Saturday when the bodies were found? Did the Union Democrat (see below) get that information from the Sheriffs' Dept.?

Not heard from since Thursday, [other sources report they missed school Friday as well].

Sleeping on couch theory not explained, bedding, pillows, or what?.

"A bedroom" (not "THE bedroom" as some reports on the net have it, implying the kids did have their own bedrooms.

The reason for calling it a murder-suicide is not explained (parafin test? ballisitcs?)What evidence at the scene was used to make this determination?


Dated feb 4.
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/Portals/sheriff/Press/2013/Update-Correction_on_Murder-Suicide.pdf

----> excerpts
On February 2, 2013 Calaveras County Sheriff’s deputies and investigators investigated
a double murder-suicide that occurred at a residence on the 1200 block of Sandalwood
Drive in the Forest Meadows subdivision, Murphys.

It was further determined that Phillip Marshall’s son and daughter, Alex Marshall (17)
and Macaila Marshall (14), were asleep on the couch at the time they were shot. Foul
play by outside persons has been ruled out, and evidence at the scene confirmed that
Phillip Marshall was the shooter. The time of death is still being examined
<----

Questions:

Foul play by other persons has been ruled out? How was it ruled out? Finding evidence
at the scene is not the same as doing ballistics and paraffin tests.

What evidence was found at the scene? What evidence was there that the children were
sleeping? How did the Sheriffs get into the house? Was the house locked?

At this time they are still saying the time of death is being examined.


Feb 5.
from the Guardian UK.
----> excerpts
John Brennan, Barack Obama's nominee for CIA director, will come under renewed pressure at his confirmation hearing on Thursday to justify the targeted killing of US citizens in drone strikes, following the leak of a secret summary of the White House rationale for one its most controversial policies.
<----

It is now Feb 13 and there are no new updates at the sheriffs dept.

On Feb 6 the Union Democrat reports:
----> excerpts
The time of the discovery, 3 p.m. Saturday, will be listed as the official time of death.
<----
http://www.uniondemocrat.com/News/Local-News/More-murder-suicide-details

Now this is highly problematic in that the kids were then "sleeping on the couch" instead
of in their own rooms on a Saturday, which is not unusual. But if they were killed on
Thursday, they they were "sleeping in the living room" on a school night.

Did they often sleep in the living room on school nights? Were they allowed to sleep in
their own rooms at all?

The mother was in Turkey when she was notified of the deaths, according to several source
on the internet. Who had legal custody of the children?

Does the accused have a right to a fair trial? Witnesses for his defense (i.e., paraffin and ballistics tests, just to make sure)?

Why the dual "time of death" confusion? Will the time of death become more clear or less clear as more time passes?
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
lee h oswald said:
cairenn said:
You call us 'imperialist', but the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated to rebuild their cities and their industries. At the end of WW II, the US could have taken control of much of Europe, we didn't.
More 'history' from the good ole USofA. I suggest you read up on some actual history. You are completely wrong.


lee h oswald said:
Victor pays the vanquished's debt. It's been a kind of rule for centuries. You're living in the same dreamland that most Americans do - the dream that you lot won the war single handed - frankly, it's idiotic. You don't have a clue what you're talking about here. It's because your establishment (the one that 'gives' you all those 'freedoms', the one you like so well) has made sure you don't know the facts, you are free to be brainwashed and kept ignorant. Shocking.


Feel free to point out any land-grabs by the Romans, Mongols(or in more contemporary history the Nazis or Soviets) where mercy was shown to the indigenous people, rebuilding was carried out for them shortly after, food aid was handed out en masse and medical aid was provided for free.
Feel free to show any where the invaders were welcomed by the indigenous population.

The US did just about win the war in the pacific single-handed. If it weren't for the sheer numbers of the US and USSR in the European theater, the Nazis would have won out.

lee h oswald said:
No need for inverted commas. The US is an imperial power. Maybe you need a dictionary as well as some proper history books (ie. not US standard issue cobblers).


Feel free to point out some 'proper history books'.


lee h oswald said:
Too many Hollywood propaganda movies for you. Try to put aside your unfettered bias and find an alternative narrator.


Oh Lee, won't you be our alternative narrator and enlighten us with your narration that is so free of bias? Anyone without bias can see the US guilty of the same level of evil as every other totalitarian expansionist dictatorship in history. All of the supposed good that has been done is a ruse to elicit public sympathy. Zero good has ever been done by the US, in fact it is without exaggeration the sole source of all suffering in the world today.

Care to defend the questionable, usually outright false claims you spout in your posts? Or would you prefer to label anyone who dares question your US-is-the-ultimate-bad-guy narrative as apologists(neglecting to apply that sweeping generalization to your own country in the process) and prance along to your next drive-by posting?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Note that lee was banned for a week for being rude. Please refrain from being rude back to him. If things simply degenerate to personal attacks, then I'll just have to delete things.
 

jvnk08

Senior Member.
Note that lee was banned for a week for being rude. Please refrain from being rude back to him. If things simply degenerate to personal attacks, then I'll just have to delete things.

Ah, I did not know that. Sometimes it's hard not to respond to his vitriol in kind. I'll stop.
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
Originally Posted by lee h oswald


Originally Posted by cairenn

You call us 'imperialist', but the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated to rebuild their cities and their industries. At the end of WW II, the US could have taken control of much of Europe, we didn't.

More 'history' from the good ole USofA. I suggest you read up on some actual history. You are completely wrong.


Originally Posted by lee h oswald

Victor pays the vanquished's debt. It's been a kind of rule for centuries. You're living in the same dreamland that most Americans do - the dream that you lot won the war single handed - frankly, it's idiotic. You don't have a clue what you're talking about here. It's because your establishment (the one that 'gives' you all those 'freedoms', the one you like so well) has made sure you don't know the facts, you are free to be brainwashed and kept ignorant. Shocking.

Feel free to point out any land-grabs by the Romans, Mongols(or in more contemporary history the Nazis or Soviets) where mercy was shown to the indigenous people, rebuilding was carried out for them shortly after, food aid was handed out en masse and medical aid was provided for free.
Feel free to show any where the invaders were welcomed by the indigenous population.

The US did just about win the war in the pacific single-handed. If it weren't for the sheer numbers of the US and USSR in the European theater, the Nazis would have won out.

Originally Posted by lee h oswald
No need for inverted commas. The US is an imperial power. Maybe you need a dictionary as well as some proper history books (ie. not US standard issue cobblers).


Feel free to point out some 'proper history books'.


Originally Posted by lee h oswald

Too many Hollywood propaganda movies for you. Try to put aside your unfettered bias and find an alternative narrator.


Oh Lee, won't you be our alternative narrator and enlighten us with your narration that is so free of bias? Anyone without bias can see the US guilty of the same level of evil as every other totalitarian expansionist dictatorship in history. All of the supposed good that has been done is a ruse to elicit public sympathy. Zero good has ever been done by the US, in fact it is without exaggeration the sole source of all suffering in the world today.

Care to defend the questionable, usually outright false claims you spout in your posts? Or would you prefer to label anyone who dares question your US-is-the-ultimate-bad-guy narrative as apologists(neglecting to apply that sweeping generalization to your own country in the process) and prance along to your next drive-by posting?


You're defending a very poorly thought out statement. The one at the top.

Originally Posted by cairenn

You call us 'imperialist', but the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated to rebuild their cities and their industries. At the end of WW II, the US could have taken control of much of Europe, we didn't.

This person appears to believe that by shouting a lot - see many other posts, similarly lacking in factual content - that the assertions are somehow justified.

You begin your defence thus:

Feel free to point out any land-grabs by the Romans, Mongols(or in more contemporary history the Nazis or Soviets) where mercy was shown to the indigenous people, rebuilding was carried out for them shortly after, food aid was handed out en masse and medical aid was provided for free.
Feel free to show any where the invaders were welcomed by the indigenous population.

Ok. Let's take the first up - the Romans: Brutal - undoubtedly; uncompromising in their goal to build empire. They grabbed a lot of territory. (Ditto the Nazis, Soviets, British - pretty much everyone's had a go - so long as they had the bigger stick; but let's stay with the Romans, as you brought them up).
The thing is that you are defending the statement that the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated.
You back this up, asking, ...where mercy was shown to the indigenous people, rebuilding was carried out for them shortly after, food aid was handed out en masse and medical aid was provided for free.
Feel free to show any where the invaders were welcomed by the indigenous population.

But you can easily find that many people welcomed the invading Nazis - Ukraine, Holland, Belgium, France - all over - you can find images of lots of people waving flags; 'mercy', as you put it, is always shown to supporters - it's the ones who fight back that get treated with brutality. And anyway - you seem to want to imply that the US is a benevolent, rather than a malevolent, power, a power for good, that would never abuse its great power for nefarious objectives; it's honest, decent and wholesome - and occasionally makes mistakes. You seem to believe in the propaganda known as American exceptionalism. It's just PR.


Anyway, back to the Romans and the idea you're defending, the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated.

Do you really think that's correct? Here's a transcript of a scene from the film, Life of Brian

What have the Romans ever done for us?


The US did just about win the war in the pacific single-handed. If it weren't for the sheer numbers of the US and USSR in the European theater, the Nazis would have won out.

Based on what? Looks like just your opinion

Feel free to point out some 'proper history books'.

I am free to point them out, but that wouldn't help either of us. You'd choose to avoid anything I might recommend, I fear. That's something you can do for yourself, expand your reading on the subject of American Empire - probably best to begin way back with the Mexican war - lots of Mexico was grabbed then....and they haven't forgotten. McKinley and Roosevelt (the father) also. But things gather pace post 1945 when the proto fascist condition of the US State became clearer and is now almost fully in flower. Don't say you haven't been warned - even your own presidents have tried to warn the people on occasion, most notably (post war) Eisenhower. Did you know that since 1945 the US State has been responsible for the overthrowing of more than fifty governments - over thirty of those were democratically elected?

Oh Lee, won't you be our alternative narrator and enlighten us with your narration that is so free of bias? Anyone without bias can see the US guilty of the same level of evil as every other totalitarian expansionist dictatorship in history. All of the supposed good that has been done is a ruse to elicit public sympathy. Zero good has ever been done by the US, in fact it is without exaggeration the sole source of all suffering in the world today.

Care to defend the questionable, usually outright false claims you spout in your posts? Or would you prefer to label anyone who dares question your US-is-the-ultimate-bad-guy narrative as apologists(neglecting to apply that sweeping generalization to your own country in the process) and prance along to your next drive-by posting?

No comment.
 
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Cairenn

Senior Member.
Are you denying the good the Marshall plan did? What false claims have I made? All I see from you is an insult with nothing to back it up.

The 'Red scare' caused a lot of wrong actions, however, one does need to look at things in the context of the times. The rise of Hitler and what developed from it did frighten a lot of folks. Fear makes both individuals and countries do things that they would not normally consider. The best example of that is the person that shoots at a 'burglar' only to find out that it was just a kid or even a family member sneaking back home. The US and other western countries were concerned about the outcome of a world war, where both sides had nukes---I think we were right in that. Some of the responses were wrong, but many of them understandable.

By the way, why are mixing the statements up of 2 different folks?
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
Are you denying the good the Marshall plan did? What false claims have I made? All I see from you is an insult with nothing to back it up.

The 'Red scare' caused a lot of wrong actions, however, one does need to look at things in the context of the times. The rise of Hitler and what developed from it did frighten a lot of folks. Fear makes both individuals and countries do things that they would not normally consider. The best example of that is the person that shoots at a 'burglar' only to find out that it was just a kid or even a family member sneaking back home. The US and other western countries were concerned about the outcome of a world war, where both sides had nukes---I think we were right in that. Some of the responses were wrong, but many of them understandable.

By the way, why are mixing the statements up of 2 different folks?

Judging by the reponse, you haven't read/understood the post.

What false claims have I made?

There's been quite a few, but what about reading the post, then you might get it...

Originally Posted by cairenn
You call us 'imperialist', but the US did something that has NEVER been done after a war, we HELPED the countries we defeated to rebuild their cities and their industries. At the end of WW II, the US could have taken control of much of Europe, we didn't.

Ring any bells?

I thought people promulgating bunk were supposed to be corrected round here....obviously the reflex is fairly arbitrary
 
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xenon

Active Member
Some collected information that has not been posted yet:

Apparently his publicist is the source of the rumor that Marshall had a gun but no bullets-
the following excerpts are from a Reddit comment page at:
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/17x0kj/former_pilot_and_911_conspiracy_theorist_shoots/

octagon420 15 days ago
I am/was phil marshall's publicist. I helped him publish his books and was about to republish his expiriences regarding iran/contra.... I really am shocked about this whole thing... I last spoke with him 4 days ago and spent 7 days in the house the crime was comitted in about 2 weeks ago.. I am shocked, I don't believe it... Something is SERIOUSLY FISHY. Until someone can prove to me that this was suicide I refuse to believe that the man whom loved his children so dearly could have done this. He was a dear friend, his children were fantastic, I am at a loss for words....

octagon420 15 days ago
I just want to say, information is sparse right now... I promise I will update you guys as things become clearer, but I personally have a hard time believing this.... We had high level contacts in the government, he was reaching out to people overseas and this just DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.. FUUUCK i am devastated....

(octagon420 was asked for some proof about being Marshall's publicist)
octagon420 15 days ago
I will post a random string on his twitter after this post @thebigbamboozle 868gdmzs ... It is sad :(



octagon420 15 days ago
He was convinced he had uncovered the TRUE people behind 9/11 . In his book he identified the training facilities and tactical plan used, I can only imagine at this point he may have gotten things right... We had been in contact with members of the 911 commission recently and foreign nationals.. Last time I spoke with him was 4 days ago and he was in good spirits looking forward to further book publishing and adventures... FFFFUUUUUUUU

octagon420 14 days ago
Yes, I was aware he owned the glock. Interestingly he claimed a few weeks ago, when I saw him last, that he didn't own ammunition for it. Don't know if that was a lie or what.. I never saw the gun, however, I had seen the manual in his car and hence the conversation came up. As far as I know he owned a single glock pistol.

octagon420 14 days ago
Logical conclusion. However, I was shocked to find out and saw the post on /r/conspiracy so I figured I would add some perspective. As per his wishes, I will be open-sourcing one of his books. This was an ongoing project and we were planning on publishing much of his work free to the world anyways, so there goes you financial motivator....

octagon420 14 days ago
Yes, the human mind is a complex thing, I am not going to pretend I could understand it. One way or another, this was unexpected...

octagon420 15 days ago
Yes, I suspect I will be haunted by this for the rest of my life... We will never truly know what happened... All I know is that in a TRILLION years, I would have never expected something like this from him... Just. Doesn't. Compute.

octagon420 15 days ago
All I can say is WTF!! I can't imagine this happened, he LIVED for his kids, he would have never harmed them...

MikelexLasciatemi cantare sono un italiano 14 days ago
Deborah Jeane Palfrey the DC madam and 9/11 informant went on Alex Jones show saying she wasn't going to commit suicide, a year later she was found hanging in her garage.

More:
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/17x0kj/former_pilot_and_911_conspiracy_theorist_shoots/

*******************

A second Phillip Marshall interview on Coast to Coast on 09/09/12 (second hour only)
http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=149495;article=144044;title=APFN

************************************
Excerpts from the Wayne Madsen Report:
February 15-17, 2013 -- Sacramento, CA -- Philip Marshall: A black ops hit made to appear as a suicide

Philip Marshall, the retired United Airlines pilot, 9/11 analysis author, and one-time Iran-contra era associate of CIA/DEA informant Barry Seal, did not shoot his two teen-age children and himself. That is the conclusion of everyone who knew Marshall after he moved to the Sierra Nevadas community of Murphys ten years ago after he sold his home in Santa Barbara.

Friends said Marshall was looking for more seclusion. Marshall, who believed that the Bush family, allied with Saudi and neo-conservative interests, pulled off the 9/11 attack to engineer a government coup d'etat, was working on a fourth book that promised to reveal some new blockbuster information. Neighbors and friends of Marshall contradicted a number of Calaveras County Sheriff's Department findings about what they quickly concluded was a murder-suicide by a crazed killer. Furthermore, one close professional colleague of Marshall believed a federal "black ops" team prevailed upon the Sheriff's Department to come up with the rapid murder-suicide explanation.

WMR learned from a local media source in Calaveras County that the Sheriff Gary Kuntz is dragging his feet on providing local newspapers with two critical reports: the toxicological report on Marshall's and his son's and daughter's bodies and the GSR (Gunshot Residue) report on the bullets fired from what was reported to be Marshall's 9 mm Glock, which neighbors reported was never loaded. Marshall's body was found at the end of a long hallway leading from the unusually unlocked front door. Neighbors said that if Marshall was responding to a suspicious entry, he would have grabbed his gun from the kitchen and gone toward the door. Neighbors believe that Marshall was shot as he turned into the hallway from the kitchen, which is off the living room space where his children were found shot to death on separate portions of a sectional couch.

In addition to the crime scene being investigated by unknown personnel after it was opened to the public, neighbors noticed that a side door of the Marshall home at 1259 Sandalwood Drive in the gated community of Forest Meadows, near Murphys, was unlocked and ajar. Neighbors stated that the door was never opened and hardly used. The Sheriff also stated that no gunshots were heard by neighbors on the evening of January 31 or early morning of February 1 because the houses are far apart. In fact, the houses are extremely close together and one neighbor stated she could "hear Phil whistling from inside his house." Police immediately denied that a silencer or other noise suppression device could have been used in the four shootings that included single shots each to Marshall, son Alex, daughter Macaila, and Shih-tzu dog "Suki," the latter found in a bedroom. One neighbor reported hearing an unusual noise during the evening of January 31, a Thursday.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/5/4/3300455/PhilipMarshallhitmadetoappearassuicide.pdf

*************************

Wayne Madsen: 9/11 author Philip Marshall “suicided” by black ops team_on the Kevin Barrett Show- broadcast February 19, 2013. It is now archived here —
http://noliesradio.org/archives/57581

****************************
memorial.jpg

Hundreds turned out at The Bret Harte Union High School in Angels Camp, CA to remember Alex and Macaila Marshall, both former San Marcos High School students. Alex and Macaila were killed in the double murder, suicide involving former Hope Ranch pilot and author, Phillip Marshall. Alex and Macaila’s aunt delivered the eulogy while their mom, Sean Marshall, closed the ceremony with emotional remarks. “Being in Turkey and getting the news, it was almost unbearable,” she said. “When I heard of this devastation, there are no words ever to explain the emotions, the hurt, the regrets. I couldn’t hear God at that moment. I couldn’t hear his answers why, why would you do this? Why them? Why me?” Sean concluded, “Hug everyone, love everyone, be kind.”

http://www.santabarbaraview.com/alex-and-macaila-marshal-remembered442552/comment-page-1/

*********************************
Saudi involvement in 9/11
Clipped from:John Pistole on Air Safety and Security
C-SPAN Aug 8, 2012

Capt. Phil Marshall asks why there is no mention of the Suadi Arabian Government involvement in the 9/11 plot. (2min)

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/clip/3666021

Why doesn't Mr. Pistole answer Captain Marshall's question?

*
 
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xenon

Active Member
Sure he didn't have bullets weeks before. One can buy bullets at Wal Mart

I'm not aware of evidence of gunshot residue on Phillip Marshall's hand yet, perhaps I've overlooked it. Do you know of the results of these tests? That will go a long way towards convincing me.

Question for you--Here's a Google Earth view of Phillip Marshall's house, based on LEO Press releases.
Click the Pic for FULL SIZE

marshallhouse5000ft.jpg


marshallhouse4000ft.jpg
Click the Pic for FULL SIZE

Obviously one does not need to get past a "gate" at this "gated community" to get to his house...

Those houses aren't that far apart but they aren't that close together either.

Do you think that 4 gunshots fired in Phillip Marshall's house from a 9mm Glock would be heard in the house next door? Across the street? Was a silencer found with the gun? If not, can we assume these 4 gunshots were fired without a silencer? Using google earth we can find out to the foot how far apart the houses are. I'm going to do some research on dB and how far a gunshot can be heard.

I've fired a friends 9mm and it seems that 4 shots without a silencer would have been fairly loud, especially at night. So, surely one or two of these neighbors will come forward and tell us all about it. Hopefully they won't wait too long.

****
EDIT to add: If that about the bullets was all you got from my post I did a very poor job of presenting information. Do you have any tips for me? TIA
 

MikeC

Closed Account
You can have your opinion, and I will have mine. I am GLAD I live in the US, even with our faults. We and that includes our government is just 'human' and as such, they will do things wrong at times.

Let's look at recent examples in the news. Australia and it's treatment of the Aborigines including the seizure of children and placement of them with 'white' families, that continued into the '90s and beyond--no voting rights until the 80s for them.

That's not true - they gained voting rights in various states at various times from the 19th century until Queensland was the last state to grant them in 1965.

the last legal difference seems to have been for compulsory registration and voting for Aboriginals as non-Aboriginal Australians had "always had to", enacted in 1984.

I don't see any country that is free of blame for mistreating it's people or others. The US, in general, does a LOT better job in NOT doing that deliberately.

At least not since the civil rights reform era of the 1960's - but since that era such practices have been generaly abhored throughout the western liberal world - I don't see the USA as being exceptional in this matter in any significant way.

I don't know where you live, but I LIKE the freedoms I have in the US

which is entirely reasonable of course.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I was trying to point out that all counties have done things they are or should be ashamed of. If for some reason I decided to move from the US, Australia would be my first choice.

We are not perfect, but many of the wrongs of the past, were done with a different mind set than we have today. We are more sensitive to a lot of things.

A good example, around 1970, I was groped by the produce manager of a grocery store. I was maybe 18. I told my mom and we just stopped shopping there. No question about calling the police and reporting him. Folks were not as sensitive to sexual abuse of that type. In my HS there the speech teacher, female had the reputation of having sex with some of her 18 yr old students. It was gossiped about but never reported.

Now both of those would be reported and it would be all over the news. Different times.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Absolutely - I agree with your sentiments - was pretty much correcting the statement of fact is all :)
 
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