Phillip Marshall, 9/11 Conspiracy Theorist, Apparent Suicide? Or What?

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Cairenn

Senior Member.
There is a fairly decent parallel to the way their voting rights were restricted and what states did here to the voting rights of the native Americans. Many of the states used the fact that if 'Indian land' to not allow them to vote in state elections
 
C

Charles000

Guest
Murder suicide??? I'm not buying that "official" description of such for a nanosecond. Phil Marshall was an intelligent, rational individual, professional pilot, and certainly had credibility in his observations and theories about what really happened leading up to and during the 9/11 "incident".

He was taken out, along with his family. A more blatantly clear message could not be more obvious. This was a warning to any and all who may want to continue challenging the supposedly accepted 9/11 "attack" story.

But hideous as this is, such threatening acts of tyranny have a way of backfiring.

To me, this indicates how evermore desperate the real architects of this entire 9/11 debacle, the PNAC agenda and their minions, are becoming to protect their treasonous, criminal enterprises.

This is not going to scare people away from finding the truth, and exposing such to the world.

Quite the contrary, I would suggest this will further harden the resolve of those who are determined to bring this truth to light, for all to see.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Murder suicide??? I'm not buying that "official" description of such for a nanosecond. Phil Marshall was an intelligent, rational individual, professional pilot, and certainly had credibility in his observations and theories about what really happened leading up to and during the 9/11 "incident".

He was taken out, along with his family. A more blatantly clear message could not be more obvious. This was a warning to any and all who may want to continue challenging the supposedly accepted 9/11 "attack" story.

But hideous as this is, such threatening acts of tyranny have a way of backfiring.

To me, this indicates how evermore desperate the real architects of this entire 9/11 debacle, the PNAC agenda and their minions, are becoming to protect their treasonous, criminal enterprises.

This is not going to scare people away from finding the truth, and exposing such to the world.

Quite the contrary, I would suggest this will further harden the resolve of those who are determined to bring this truth to light, for all to see.

So why did "they" do it then? Quite obviously these "suspicious" deaths never work in shutting people up.
 

xenon

Active Member
One mystery solved: Why was Phillip Marshall's Twitter avatar so ugly?

tweetspublicist.jpg




Here's Dan Hopsicker's story about how he got the photo and what it means:
0506201.gif
http://www.madcowprod.com/05072006.html
"Look out kid, They keep it all hid.”
Bob Dylan “Subterranean Homesick Blues”

WORLD EXCLUSIVE
May 6 2006--Venice,FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker

Deposed CIA head Porter Goss was once a member of the CIA's super-secret Operation 40, an assassination squad which roamed through North and Central America during the 1960's.

Along with a number of men whose names became famous and whose lives and careers comprise a large part of America’s Secret History, Goss appears (see a comparison) in the historic photograph at right, which also appears on the cover of "Barry & 'the boys': The CIA, the Mob, and America's Secret History."

It is the only extant photograph of the members of Operation Forty, the CIA’s assassination squad, taken in a Mexico City nightclub in 1963.

Coupled with his close proximity to the terrorist hijackers who used his Congressional District in Charlotte County as one of their main bases of operations, this fact virtually shouts out for closer examination during the post-mortems dissecting his tenure as CIA chief.

When we first saw the photo, it was in the yellowed frame used by nightclub photographers back in the 60's. It bore the name of a nightclub (La Reforma) in Mexico City, and was stamped with a date, January 22, 1963, ten months to the day before the Kennedy assassination.


"Guido, meet the General. General, meet Guido."

The Mexico City nightclub photo reveals a mixed group of Cuban exiles, Italian wise guys, and square-jawed military intelligence types. It was discovered among keepsakes kept in the safe of the widow of CIA pilot and drug smuggler Barry Seal, where it was overlooked by a 7-man team from the U.S. State Department which showed up at her house in 1995 to comb through her records.

Barry Seal had been recruited at the age of 17, along with Lee Oswald, by CIA agent David Ferrie, at a two week summer camp of the Louisiana Civil Air Patrol in 1957.

The product of a patrician Connecticut upbringing, an elite preparatory school and Yale University, Goss entered the high-stakes espionage game being played out between the Florida Keys and the coast of Cuba after the CIA-backed coup against Castro collapsed at the Bay of Pigs.

"During his junior year, he met a CIA recruiter through his ROTC commanders,” reported the September 24, 2002 Orlando Sentinel, in a story headlined “TERRORISM FIGHT KEEPS REP. GOSS IN POLITICAL FRAY.”

“It is true I was in CIA from approximately the late 50's to approximately the early 70's,” Goss told antagonist Michael Moore.

At the time the picture was taken Barry Seal was a young-looking 24-year old. Porter Goss was the same age.

"They've given you a number, and taken 'way your name."

Seal is seated third from left. Sitting right next to him (second from left) is Porter Goss. Beside Goss is notorious "freedom fighter" Felix Rodriguez (front left), a Cuban vice cop under the corrupt Mob-run Batista regime in Cuba who later became an Iran Contra operative and a confidant of the first George Bush.

On the other side of the table is the the only spook celebrant displaying any regard for tradecraft... Covering his face with his sport coat is Frank Sturgis, famous for being one of the Watergate burglars.

Beside Sturgis (front right) is another famous spook, at least among Kennedy assassination researchers, William Seymour, the New Orleans representative of the Double-Chek Corporation, a CIA front used to recruit pilots (like Seal). Seymour is regarded by many researchers as the man who on several notable occasions is said to have impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald, when that lone nut gunman was out of the country.

At the time it was taken the CIA's covert action chief in Mexico City was David Atlee Phillips, AKA Maurice Bishop, who reportedly met with Oswald in Dallas before the assassination.

"You don't have the negative too do you?"

The sensitive nature of the picture was confirmed by a person who had known and worked with Seal, who incidentally had been the inspiration for the hit song "Secret Agent Man," by his buddy Johnny Rivers in the 'mid-60's.

The man, also the executor of Seal's estate, reacted with unconcealed shock when first shown the picture. “Where did you get that?” he demanded. “I didn’t know there were any… Where did this picture come from?"

“Yeah, Barry was Op Forty,” Jerry Patrick Hemming confirmed. “He flew in killer teams inside the island (Cuba) before the invasion to take out Fidel.”

Frank Sturgis, a member of the team that broke into Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate complex in 1972, later admitted to having been part of Operation Forty.

Other famous names who belonged to Operation Forty include Thomas Clines, Edwin Wilson and "Blond Ghost" Ted Shackley.

Colonel William Bishop showed author Dick Russell a series of photographs of Latin-looking individuals who belonged to the group. On the backs of the pictures were the words "Special talent 1960-65, Ice pick man ... Butcher... Sniper and demo [demolition] expert ... Propaganda ... Knife man... Pilot and navigator ... Mutilator."

“Bishop said, ‘We weren't playing a nice game.’”

When nephew Chuck Giancana wrote about Mob Boss Sam Giancana’s strategic move to Mexico in early 1963, he wrote this about Operation Forty...

"It was to be an all-out, no-holds-barred Latin American push. Mooney (Giancana) settled into a lavish Mexico City apartment and went right to work, drawing on the expertise and mammoth resources of the recently-formed CIA team of assassins and operatives specifically trained for Latin American clandestine operations. CIA insiders jokingly dubbed the team the White Hand, an allusion to the Mafia killer progenitors the Black Hand."

"You're not cleared for that information."

Although the photo was available at the time of his confirmation as head of the CIA, the major media showed no inclination to press Goss on the matter. In fact, the party line rang out everywhere.

"Rep. Porter J. Goss has disclosed precious few details of his CIA employment from roughly 1960 to 1971,” reported a profile in the Associated Press. Reuters called him a “mystery man,” and said he had been “close-mouthed about his past.”

“He worked in Haiti, the Dominican Republic and Mexico-tumultuous countries during that decade of the Cold War,” Reuters reported.

During a 2002 interview with The Washington Post, Goss joked that he performed photo interpretation and "small-boat handling," which led to "some very interesting moments in the Florida Straits."

He acknowledged he had recruited and run foreign agents and said he would be uncomfortable traveling to Cuba but wouldn't say more.

“With a prep-school education and a Greek major at Yale, Goss passed up the conventional life to be a CIA spook,” reads one typical wire service account.

Actually, the facts lean heavily towards the proposition that with “a prep school education and a Greek major at Yale,” Goss’s choice to become a CIA spook in the early 60's was an entirely conventional one.

"Closed orders and secret societies"

The appointment of Porter Goss revealed that what passes for American civic life may in reality be just an elaborate game of Inside Baseball. Goss found himself paired often with fellow Floridian, Democratic Sen. Bob Graham, then the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, leading the joint congressional inquiry into the attacks.

The two men share another unique distinction: both were having breakfast on the morning of September 11th, 2001 with a man who reportedly wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta.

"When the news [of the attacks on the World Trade Center] came, the two Florida lawmakers who lead the House and Senate intelligence committees were having breakfast with the head of the Pakistani intelligence service.”

In testimony before Congress on February 9, 2004, Chief Weapons Inspector David Kay noted, "Closed orders and secret societies, whether they be religious or governmental, are the groups that have the hardest time reforming themselves in the face of failure without outside input."

When was the last time anyone heard a weapons inspector mention secret societies?

Do you ever get the feeling there's something they're not telling us?
http://www.madcowprod.com/05072006.html

****************************************

Wayne Madsen was on the radio program Coast 2 Coast last night to talk about his findings in the Phillip Marshall Case

Who is Wayne Madsen you ask?

Madsen has some twenty years experience in security issues. As a U.S. Naval Officer, he managed one of the first computer security programs for the U.S. Navy. He subsequently worked for the National Security Agency, the Naval Data Automation Command, Department of State, RCA Corporation, and Computer Sciences Corporation. Madsen was a Senior Fellow for the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a privacy public advocacy organization.

Madsen is a member of the Society of Professional Journalists (SPJ) and the National Press Club.
http://waynemadsenreport.com/categories/20070329

After a week-long on-site investigation, former National Security Agency officer Wayne Madsen is “100% certain” that 9/11 investigator and author Philip Marshall and his two children were killed in a black ops hit. Madsen’s conclusion is that the cover story – an alleged murder-suicide – is transparently absurd.

Madsen stated his conclusions on yesterday’s Kevin Barrett show. Among the evidence cited by Madsen:*Neighbors’ houses are “practically on top of” Marshall’s house, so dozens of neighbors would have heard any gunshots that weren’t muffled by a silencer…and Marshall’s “patsy gun” did not have a silencer.

*The crime scene was illegally and surreptitiously cleaned up by professionals, including “a SUV, license undetermined, with an array of communication antennas bristling from the roof.” ...


Here's the interview (First Hour -skip to 11:00-----BONUS: 2nd hour is Scientology Exposed- by a former "member"!)

 
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xenon

Active Member
More Porter Goss:
Bomb Goes Off At Pentagon During Porter Goss Q&A

Do we have flt 77 on tape finally?



Phil Marshall cast much suspicion on Porter Goss in his most recent book “The Big Bamboozle”. Goss (who was later appointed to CIA Director by President Bush, only to mysteriously resign shortly afterwards, no reason given) was one of those present at that infamous breakfast meeting at the Capitol, on the morning of September 11, 2001, with General Mahmoud Ahmad, head of the Pakistani ISI. According to the FBI, Indian Intelligence and several press reports, the Mahmoud Ahmad was instrumental in providing financial support to the 9/11 terrorists. Ahmad had allegedly ordered the transfer of $100,000 to the presumed 9/11 ring-leader Mohamed Atta.
At that September 11 meeting were three lawmakers Bob Graham, Porter Goss and Jon Kyl who were part of the Congressional delegation to Pakistan. Also present at this meeting were Pakistan’s ambassador to the U.S. Maleeha Lodhi and several members of the Senate and House Intelligence committees. This meeting was described by one press report as a “follow-up meeting” to that held in Pakistan in late August.


After the Capitol meeting, Porter Goss went to the Pentagon where he is seen being interviewed, on camera, by the mainstream US media, while the attack sequence was still being played out. This video gives us some evidence regarding what happened at the Pentagon, as Goss was speaking: There is a distant boom, and people in camerashot turn around and gasp. Then, a minute later, we hear the sound of a large commercial plane flying full throttle, engines screaming, and people look towards where the sound is coming from. There were TWO events at the Pentagon that morning, and Porter Goss likely knows exactly what happened, and who was responsible – and Phil Marshall was onto Porter Goss.
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q44verk-cwM (before youtube pulls it, yet again).
From Bloggulator http://www.santabarbaraview.com/phi...m-of-one4254252/comment-page-2/#comment-24784

What is that explosion before the screaming jet noise? Is that screaming jet noise Flt 77?

Inquiring minds want to know...
 

lee h oswald

Banned
Banned
More Porter Goss:
Bomb Goes Off At Pentagon During Porter Goss Q&A

Do we have flt 77 on tape finally?





What is that explosion before the screaming jet noise? Is that screaming jet noise Flt 77?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Wow! Nice one, X.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
More Porter Goss:
Bomb Goes Off At Pentagon During Porter Goss Q&A

Do we have flt 77 on tape finally?





What is that explosion before the screaming jet noise? Is that screaming jet noise Flt 77?

Inquiring minds want to know...
Most interesting....
 

RolandD

Active Member
More Porter Goss:
Bomb Goes Off At Pentagon During Porter Goss Q&A

Do we have flt 77 on tape finally?




What is that explosion before the screaming jet noise? Is that screaming jet noise Flt 77?

Inquiring minds want to know...

I'd like to see an longer copy of that. The sound at the end sounds out of place, like creative editing.
 

blackdog

New Member
I have one question then a comment. Question: What is the status of his book? I believe the answer is very important for obvious reasons. Maybe it will in the hands of his wife. If she believes they were killed as a result of his book she may wish to retaliate. I know i would. I also wish to offer her a bit of advice. Buy a "BIG" .45 auto and wear it religiously. My comment is I've learned over the years that it's not necessarily a question of it being a conspiracy or a mere coincidence if an event as such is preceded by a possible nefarious motive. I tend to believe the principle of Ockham's razor and how it applies here. I'm not the only one,... Obviously police and other law enforcement agencies use this strategy. I,E, the spouse is always a suspect in the untimely death of their mate until the investigation proves otherwise. Considering the number of "high value scandals" I've witnessed in my lifetime, from JFK and RFK, to Martin Luther King, USS Liberty, the gulf of Tonkin incident, Watergate, Iran- Contra, Iraq 1, 2, and 9-11 and establishment of the Police State and Govt. intrusions and MDAA provisions and realize these are just a few of events worthy of scrutiny.
The problem is that Govt. operates by dictating official positions regardless of the evidence that exists to prove otherwise. We, on the other hand are not given the opportunity to address the errors of those who hold powerful positions. Personally i'm tired of getting lies that cover previous lies and demand that the Fact Finding and Scientific Method be utilized to attain truth.
In other words, I believe it is the responsibility of the Govt. to prove their case to all who question and to their satisfaction.
"ALWAYS QUESTION AUTHORITY!"
 
1. The sheriffs and coroner said the kids were sleeping in the living room on a large U shaped couch. The toxicology results may help explain how the kids slept through getting shot, according to the coroner. The results of the drug tests on the blood samples should be completed by some time between today and next week. No indication of a paraffin test or ballistics test was planned.

2. The dog was shot. The cat was not. Find "macaila #pissed" on the net.

3. The sheriffs quickly 'ruled out' an outsider having killed all three, though the reason for this theory was not given. Neighbors have reportedly found many inaccuracies and inconsistencies in the 'official' theory ranging from doors that were normally locked being unlocked to side doors that were never used being ajar, to being able to hear sounds easily. Moreover, the sheriffs contacted a county supervisor who lived 4 doors down to ask if she thought it was a murder suicide and she said it was her feeling that someone must have come into the home. She knew Philip Marshall well.

4. Marshall himself had begun posting at this web page on Jan 12, 2013. (d/load it before it goes away).
https://twitter.com/thebigbamboozle

Note that media has been leaked inconsistent time of death data, none of which is supported by the sheriff dept's press releases. So where did their information come from? And why the discrepancies?

The "official" time of death will supposedly be Saturday afternoon at 3 pm. However the kids quit replying to text messages and tweets on Thursday and they didn't go to school on Friday. The bodies were discovered on Saturday. (No cat's body was mentioned in the 'investigation' report.)

Here's the sheriffs' dept press releases, such as they are.
http://sheriff.co.calaveras.ca.us/PressReleases/tabid/383/FolderID/1420/Default.aspx

The actual time of death was almost certainly a Thursday. He had posted that very day at his twitter page. (See link at the top of #4)

5. Probably exactly one day before the Marshall family died (Jan 30), Mr. Marshall posted an article entitled "THE ARAB WORLD KNOWS THE RAID WAS A HOAX". As anyone who uses online utilities to shorten urls, the codes cannot link to a non-existent article. However RT.com (Russia Today, a media outlet supported financially by the Russian government) has pulled the article.

This is what should have been linked.
http://rt.com/art-and-culture/news/murdoch-zero-dark-thirty-925/

And if you go to that link, you might just do exactly what it says at the top left side of the page. "Question More".

[Another minor point of interest is how he swiched from tmblr.co to fb.me for his short urls, but both use 't.co' as the link server, as you can see if you hoover your mouse over the links. This is probably nothing, but who knows.]

6. Marshall had 20,000 hours flying the exact kinds of airplanes that were used in the 9/11 attacks. If he got every single thing wrong in his books, that one point is significant because he said it took him four attempts to hit the pentagon in a flight simulator. He said that there was simply no way inexperienced pilots could have pulled that off on the first attempt.

7. The gun marshall allegedly used to kill his children and one of their pets, a shitzu dog, found dead in one of the bedrooms as the children "appeared to be sleeping" in the living room was found behind his back as he laid dead on the floor after appearing to have shot himself. According to a friend of his in a post at the http://calaverasenterprise.com, he had joked about having the gun but no bullets for it. Why no bullets? One possibility is because he had kids and intended the weapon to be a 'deterrent' rather than to actully kill anyone.

In any case, there is a reason to question the thoroughness of the sheriffs investigation. Their hastiness in coming to conclusions, the apparent lack of photographic 'evidence' and other things they failed to do, and so unofficial leaks that he left his wedding ring on top of a box of bullets cannot be corroborated and the rumor (probably true) that he was shot in the left temple while he himself was right handed (verifiable by pix on the net) suggest very strongly that this investigation should be handed over someone capable of doing it right.

It may be too late to do the paraffin testing, due to the careless way this 'investigation' was handled, but if the bullets are gone and a ballistics test can't be done, this should be a criminal offense -- obstruction of justice and destruction of evidence.

7. The US Constitution guarantees every citizen the right to a defense and 'compulsory process' to obtain witnesses in his defense. If Philip Marshall did indeed kill one of this pets and both of his children, no more harm can be done the family than he already did, but if he's innocent, the additional slander of him and the injustice to the memories of all of them -- including his children -- is unacceptable in a nation such as ours.

http;//usconstitution.net/const.html#Am6

I am apparently the counsel for his defense (per above). But I have been muzzled and now banned at http://santabarbaraview.com where I have done most of my writing in the past so I may not be able to continue in this capacity.

As a result, anyone and everyone is encouraged to continue to put pressure on the powers-that-be to DO THIS INVESTIGATION PROFESSIONALLY and if Marshall is guilty (against all odds), let the chips fall where they may.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
So you think local police are covering up 9/11? How many people are involved then? Millions?

How do they stop the police from whistle blowing?
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
So you think local police are covering up 9/11? How many people are involved then? Millions?

That's illogical Mick.... How can you equate the possibility of local police incompetence/cover up, to millions?

How do they stop the police from whistle blowing?
Admittedly going from hollywood lol... 'It comes from the top... this is a murder suicide... wrap it up quick or there will be trouble and you will be back directing traffic'.
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
Police are suspicious by nature and training. The point being made is that to 'cover it up', means someone needs to give them a reason, and since the base reason here is 9/11, that is why the comment was made.

The elaborate conspiracies that I see being pushed by the 9/11 folks would need thousands to cover them up. And that is where they fall apart for me. Thousands of folks were touched personally by 9/11, in fact while I didn't lose any one there, my Brother in Law was in a plane headed for DC that day. (He was scheduled to appear before a confirmation hearing the next day---he had been appointed as Assistant Secretary of the Interior ). Because of that simple fact, there are tens of thousands of folks that have a personal investment in the facts and the truth of what happened that day. There would be hundreds of 'whistle blowers', some with intimate knowledge of portions of the story. Instead I see a handful of folks that have minor, if any real links to the 'cover up'.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
Police are suspicious by nature and training. The point being made is that to 'cover it up', means someone needs to give them a reason, and since the base reason here is 9/11, that is why the comment was made.

The elaborate conspiracies that I see being pushed by the 9/11 folks would need thousands to cover them up. And that is where they fall apart for me. Thousands of folks were touched personally by 9/11, in fact while I didn't lose any one there, my Brother in Law was in a plane headed for DC that day. (He was scheduled to appear before a confirmation hearing the next day---he had been appointed as Assistant Secretary of the Interior ). Because of that simple fact, there are tens of thousands of folks that have a personal investment in the facts and the truth of what happened that day. There would be hundreds of 'whistle blowers', some with intimate knowledge of portions of the story. Instead I see a handful of folks that have minor, if any real links to the 'cover up'.

Again, I don't see that. There are a lot of conspiracies which have gone on for years or decades before finally being outed... the same argument could easily have been said about them 'oh thousands would have had to know, how come no one blew the whistle'? It is not valid. On top of those that did finally come undone how many others have remained uncovered... we can only guess.

This is the logic I use

There is crime.
Many crimes are solved
Many crimes are unsolved

There are conspiracies
Some are uncovered
Some are yet to be uncovered
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
So you think local police are covering up 9/11? How many people are involved then? Millions?

How do they stop the police from whistle blowing?
It is probably too early to say the police were/are incompetent or part of a cover-up but many, many people will be second guessing them no matter what they do. . . .so if I were them I would make very, very sure I did everything correct to the letter . . if not they will probably deserve the criticism they could very well get !!!!!
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
What 'conspiracy' that required thousands of non military folks went 'uncovered' for years? I am not aware of any. Even things like Iran Contra were uncovered within a couple of years. It was very high level and did not require thousands of accomplices.


Well, it was not a real conspiracy, but a military plan, by the Imperial German government, under Kaiser Wilhelm II, to invade the US, that went unknown for almost a century.
 

xenon

Active Member
1.

7. The gun marshall allegedly used to kill his children and one of their pets, a shitzu dog, found dead in one of the bedrooms as the children "appeared to be sleeping" in the living room was found behind his back as he laid dead on the floor after appearing to have shot himself. According to a friend of his in a post at the http://calaverasenterprise.com, he had joked about having the gun but no bullets for it. Why no bullets? One possibility is because he had kids and intended the weapon to be a 'deterrent' rather than to actully kill anyone.

You might find my post #75 interesting:

Apparently his publicist is the source of the rumor that Marshall had a gun but no bullets-
the following excerpts are from a Reddit comment page at:
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/c...eorist_shoots/
octagon420 15 days ago
I am/was phil marshall's publicist. I helped him publish his books and was about to republish his expiriences regarding iran/contra.... I really am shocked about this whole thing... I last spoke with him 4 days ago and spent 7 days in the house the crime was comitted in about 2 weeks ago.. I am shocked, I don't believe it... Something is SERIOUSLY FISHY. Until someone can prove to me that this was suicide I refuse to believe that the man whom loved his children so dearly could have done this. He was a dear friend, his children were fantastic, I am at a loss for words....

octagon420 15 days ago
I just want to say, information is sparse right now... I promise I will update you guys as things become clearer, but I personally have a hard time believing this.... We had high level contacts in the government, he was reaching out to people overseas and this just DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.. F&&& i am devastated....

(octagon420 was asked for some proof about being Marshall's publicist)
octagon420 15 days ago
I will post a random string on his twitter after this post @thebigbamboozle 868gdmzs ... It is sad :(

tweetspublicist.jpg
octagon420 14 days ago
Yes, I was aware he owned the glock. Interestingly he claimed a few weeks ago, when I saw him last, that he didn't own ammunition for it. Don't know if that was a lie or what.. I never saw the gun, however, I had seen the manual in his car and hence the conversation came up. As far as I know he owned a single glock pistol.



Thanks for writing at the other site- you should not have been banned.
 

xenon

Active Member
I have one question then a comment. Question: What is the status of his book? I believe the answer is very important for obvious reasons. Maybe it will in the hands of his wife.

Wayne Madsen says the whereabouts of his computer is unknown at this time. An interview with him (he went to the crime scene) is posted as a youtube in #84

Please consider calling the California Attorney General to politely ask for a State investigation- this is too important for the locals.
 

Grieves

Senior Member
What 'conspiracy' that required thousands of non military folks went 'uncovered' for years? I am not aware of any. Even things like Iran Contra were uncovered within a couple of years. It was very high level and did not require thousands of accomplices.

It's been linked too several times in a number of discussions in which you've participated Cairen, but you might want to look at MKUltra again: a CIA program, with the support of once-Nazi scientists, which used LSD, electroshock, torture practices, and abuse of a physical and sexual nature, sometimes secretly and often without any consent, on a great number of American and Canadian citizens, including children. This went on for nearly thirty years before it was finally exposed and a stop was put too it. Nearly 30 years of the physical, moral, and sexual abuse of citizens of north America, children included, conducted by an organization who's supposed mandate is the protection of those people. Rather than be disbanded when this practice was revealed, the CIA is more powerful today than it ever was, even though it's historical fact that they perpetrated some of the most shameful human-rights abuses to ever be leveled against American and Canadian citizens in the modern world.
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
What 'conspiracy' that required thousands of non military folks went 'uncovered' for years? I am not aware of any. Even things like Iran Contra were uncovered within a couple of years. It was very high level and did not require thousands of accomplices.


Well, it was not a real conspiracy, but a military plan, by the Imperial German government, under Kaiser Wilhelm II, to invade the US, that went unknown for almost a century.

Yes, it is very easy to say, "Iran Contra was uncovered within a couple of years".

But let's have a look at what Reagan's admin was helping with:

Let's look at the 'cover up':

And let's look at how it was uncovered:
Seemed pretty secure from the U.S side... No leaks there... Where were all these whistle blowers you claim would be rushing out to expose everything. Nowhere! Good damage limitation and maximum cover up though, documents disposed of efficiently etc!

Seems like your argument does not wash.

So what about the consequences?

Oh I see:

Not a lot of consequence then... No 'war crimes'... no long prison sentences. No disincentive to do it all again. Bit like the Shah of Iran really... 'milk the cow as long as you can and if the SHTF, good ol U.S of A will look after you'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_North#Later_life_and_career
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
How many folks in the US knew about this? Not a lot. A few folks overseas, and there was a leak. For any of the elaborate plots that the 9/11 truthers have but forth, it would take thousands of folks covering up things. For a year or two, that might be be slightly feasible, but for over 10, nope it isn't.

When there is a real conspiracy, all the leaks start lining up, they don't on 9/11. Too many conflicting stories.
 

xenon

Active Member
5. Probably exactly one day before the Marshall family died (Jan 30), Mr. Marshall posted an article entitled "THE ARAB WORLD KNOWS THE RAID WAS A HOAX". As anyone who uses online utilities to shorten urls, the codes cannot link to a non-existent article. However RT.com (Russia Today, a media outlet supported financially by the Russian government) has pulled the article.

This is what should have been linked.
http://rt.com/art-and-culture/news/murdoch-zero-dark-thirty-925/

And if you go to that link, you might just do exactly what it says at the top left side of the page. "Question More".

Google still has it in its cache as of this posting. Doesn't look like much of anything, RT didn't have anything not posted in other places. Anyway for the record here is the last article Phillip Marshall wanted the world to see:

Rupert Murdoch on Zero Dark Thirty drama: ‘Could inflame the Arab world’
Published: 27 December, 2012, 17:44

Zero Dark Thirty directed by Kathryn Bigelow (image from kinopoisk.ru)

The News Corp. CEO Rupert Murdoch has warned his followers on Twitter that the US Oscar contender focusing on the decade-long manhunt for Osama bin Laden, Zero Dark Thirty, "could inflame the Arab world."

The media mogul tweeted that he "just saw Zero Dark Thirty" directed by James Cameron’s ex- wife, the Oscar-winner Kathryn Bigelow. The film received mixed reviews when it arrived in theaters across America for its depiction of torture, among other controversial issues.

Describing it as a “gripping film” Murdoch pointed out that the “coming debate on torture should include all sides, but won't."

Last week the acting head of the CIA, Michael Morell, wrote a statement to CIA employees to “put into some context” the drama whose title is a military terminology for half past midnight, the time at which the hunt of Osama bin Laden by the CIA was scheduled to take place.

image-204.jpg

“I would not normally comment on a Hollywood film, but I think it important to put Zero Dark Thirty, which deals with one of the most significant achievements in our history, into some context,” Morell wrote.

“The film addresses the successful hunt for Osama Bin Laden that was the focus of incredibly dedicated men and women across our Agency, Intelligence Community, and military partners for many years. But in doing so, the film takes significant artistic license, while portraying itself as being historically accurate,” he noted.

“What I want you to know is that Zero Dark Thirty is a dramatization, not a realistic portrayal of the facts,” the acting head of the CIA emphasized. (emphasis mine)

“CIA interacted with the filmmakers through our Office of Public Affairs but, as is true with any entertainment project with which we interact, we do not control the final product,” Morell explained.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...scountb..0.2...1.1.4.psy-ab.cDbvK482XIs&pbx=1
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
How many folks in the US knew about this? Not a lot. A few folks overseas, and there was a leak. For any of the elaborate plots that the 9/11 truthers have but forth, it would take thousands of folks covering up things. For a year or two, that might be be slightly feasible, but for over 10, nope it isn't.

When there is a real conspiracy, all the leaks start lining up, they don't on 9/11. Too many conflicting stories.

Absolute rubbish and bunk. No more people need to know about 9/11 than knew about Iran Contra.

Had it not leaked out from abroad... we would likely not even be talking about it.

You cannot have it both ways although I know you dearly love it that way
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Absolute rubbish and bunk. No more people need to know about 9/11 than knew about Iran Contra.

Had it not leaked out from abroad... we would likely not even be talking about it.

The difference here is that 9/11 resulted in building collapsing, thousands of deaths. That was intended. They also knew there would be an investigation.

Iran contra was a SECRET operation. It was never intend to withstand the full force of an FBI investigation. Totally different to the suggested 9/11 conspiracy.

Can you give an example of something with a huge public illegal event and subsequent investigation, like 9/11, that was successfully covered up, at least for a while?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It's been linked too several times in a number of discussions in which you've participated Cairen, but you might want to look at MKUltra again: a CIA program, with the support of once-Nazi scientists, which used LSD, electroshock, torture practices, and abuse of a physical and sexual nature, sometimes secretly and often without any consent, on a great number of American and Canadian citizens, including children. This went on for nearly thirty years before it was finally exposed and a stop was put too it. Nearly 30 years of the physical, moral, and sexual abuse of citizens of north America, children included, conducted by an organization who's supposed mandate is the protection of those people. Rather than be disbanded when this practice was revealed, the CIA is more powerful today than it ever was, even though it's historical fact that they perpetrated some of the most shameful human-rights abuses to ever be leveled against American and Canadian citizens in the modern world.

I'm no fan of the CIA, but .... 30 years of sexual abuse of children? Do you have a source for that?
 

Oxymoron

Banned
Banned
The difference here is that 9/11 resulted in building collapsing, thousands of deaths. That was intended.

Intended? Huge shock that was intended to enrage and terrorise the gullible into endorsing illegal wars and regime changes based on garbage and insidious, carefully woven and emotive lies.

They also knew there would be an investigation.

Which 'they' would control and manipulate to their own ends. They even had the nerve to try to put Kissinger in charge of the cover up. Every one of the 9/11 commission had vested interests in the outcome

http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_21.htm

 

MikeC

Closed Account
Intended? Huge shock that was intended to enrage and terrorise the gullible into endorsing illegal wars and regime changes based on garbage and insidious, carefully woven and emotive lies.

Starting with the premise that your conclusion is true is no way to get to any sort of actual truth....except the one you carefully manufacture by ignoring reality.
 

xenon

Active Member
Here is a much better video of Porter Goss at the Capitol (Goss starts @ 0:25, after Bush and Condi)
The part after Goss is ... fascinating...



American Airlines Flight 77: The hijackers flew the plane into the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m. (per Wiki)


The 9/11 Joint Inquiry chairmen are in "conflict of interest":
Mysterious September 11 Breakfast Meeting on Capitol Hill
by Michel Chossudovsky

On the morning of September 11, the three lawmakers Bob Graham, Porter Goss and Jon Kyl (who were part of the Congressional delegation to Pakistan) were having breakfast on Capitol Hill with General Ahmad, the alleged "money-man" (to use the FBI expression) behind the 9/11 hijackers. Also present at this meeting were Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. Maleeha Lodhi and several members of the Senate and House Intelligence committees. This meeting was described by one press report as a "follow-up meeting" to that held in Pakistan in late August.

>> MORE>>

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO308C.html
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
I noticed that he failed to offer any proof of his allegation of 30 years of sexual abuse of children by the CIA. Can we see that please?
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
...the apparent lack of photographic 'evidence'...

What is this based on? Why would fresh crime-scene photos be in the public domain so soon? Would you be privy to that photographic evidence, and as you haven't been shown it, are saying there isn't any?

I hope you find answers to your questions, they mostly don't seem too trivial.

(edit)... I mean, they may have trivial non-sinister answers, but as you knew him, I hope you get the full picture to make sense of what happened and get closure.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
xenon, RanbowSally, what's the broad strokes of the conspiracy Marshall is suggesting? That the events transpired as they appeared, planes, fire, collapse, no controlled demolition, just hijackers? But somehow arranged by elements within the CIA?
 

Grieves

Senior Member
MKultra is a well known CIA coverup. Though most of the documentation was destroyed by the CIA, they've admitted to a large number of the crimes committed, including surreptitiously dosing people with LSD and other mind-altering drugs, attempting hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse while people are in drugged out states, and engaging in all sorts of forms of torture on US, Canadian, and Mexican citizens, often with no consent. The accusation that children were involved comes from the apparent victims themselves.
None of this prepared people for the explosive testimony made on March 15, 1995, in Washington, D.C., before the President's Committee on Radiation, however. In unpublicized sessions, New Orleans therapist Valerie Wolf introduced two of her patients who had uncovered memories of being part of extensive CIA brainwashing programs as young children (in one case, starting at age seven). Their brainwashing included torture, rape, electroshock, powerful drugs, hypnosis and death threats. According to their testimony, the CIA then induced amnesia to prevent their recalling these terrifying sessions.

http://vimeo.com/26848915
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
MKultra is a well known CIA coverup. Though most of the documentation was destroyed by the CIA, they've admitted to a large number of the crimes committed, including surreptitiously dosing people with LSD and other mind-altering drugs, attempting hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse while people are in drugged out states, and engaging in all sorts of forms of torture on US, Canadian, and Mexican citizens, often with no consent. The accusation that children were involved comes from the apparent victims themselves.


http://vimeo.com/26848915

Recovered memories are terrible evidence.

Are you really saying that MK Ultra is a good example of a cover up, on par with 9/11? Would you say the comparison holds for a full blown controlled demolition cover up, or just a much less involved "helped it happen" conspiracy of dodgy dealings with Pakistan etc?

One can always reduce a proposed conspiracy to such a level that a cover up is plausible. The question is, what do you think that level is. What is being covered up?
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
Recovered memories are terrible evidence.

Are you really saying that MK Ultra is a good example of a cover up, on par with 9/11? Would you say the comparison holds for a full blown controlled demolition cover up, or just a much less involved "helped it happen" conspiracy of dodgy dealings with Pakistan etc?

One can always reduce a proposed conspiracy to such a level that a cover up is plausible. The question is, what do you think that level is. What is being covered up?

Reasonable question . . .

1) The hijackers and the real motivation for the attacks . . .
2) The real events and how the top decision makers reacted . . .
3) The real motivations, failures, and actions of the national and international authorities to the situation. . .
4) What was really known by the FBI, CIA, NSA, and National Security Council . . .
5) What was the strategy and motivations behind the Patriot Act . . .
6) Why can't we have a re-opening of the investigations by third parties with an adequate budget and subpoena power to get to the bottom of the above . . .
7) Why weren't some of the aircraft shot down . . . and if one was . . . why not admit it . . .
8) Full investigation of the just in time insurance policy for double pay for terrorist act on the WTC
9) Full investigation into the existence of molten metal and hot spots at ground zero . . .
 

Grieves

Senior Member
Recovered memories are terrible evidence.

Are you really saying that MK Ultra is a good example of a cover up, on par with 9/11? Would you say the comparison holds for a full blown controlled demolition cover up, or just a much less involved "helped it happen" conspiracy of dodgy dealings with Pakistan etc?

One can always reduce a proposed conspiracy to such a level that a cover up is plausible. The question is, what do you think that level is. What is being covered up?
The memories weren't recovered through hypnosis/regression/other forms of 'suggestion'. If someone testifying as to what they remember about an incident is terrible evidence, then most witness testimonies are terrible evidence, as they're all usually dependent on memory.

MKultra is an excellent example of a coverup. Is it 'on par with 9/11'? No, not really, especially considering it's been, at least to a small extent, 'uncovered'. None the less, it's a clear, distinct, indisputable example of the CIA, an intelligence organization that's supposed to protect Americans, taking extreme and frightening liberties with their power to do things any decent person would immediately identify as being sick and wrong. It's also not the only example of this sort of callous and alarming behavior by the CIA. If an organization with a long history of trampling all over the human rights of not only people abroad, but also its own citizens, not only survives but thrives in a democratic setting, one has to wonder at just how 'democratic' that setting really is, and if 'the people' really have any solid say in the management of their country. MKultra has little to do with 9/11 directly, but it establishes that one of the primary institutions in which America places its trust where National Security and investigating 9/11 is concerned has by no means demonstrated itself as trustworthy, and are, if their history is any indication, entirely willing to not only lie too/mislead Americans, but also violate their rights.

I'm of the opinion elements of the CIA were complicit in the 9/11 attacks. The extent of that complicity I'm uncertain of, but there's little doubt in my mind really.
 

George B

Extinct but not forgotten Staff Member
The memories weren't recovered through hypnosis/regression/other forms of 'suggestion'. If someone testifying as to what they remember about an incident is terrible evidence, then most witness testimonies are terrible evidence, as they're all usually dependent on memory.

MKultra is an excellent example of a coverup. Is it 'on par with 9/11'? No, not really, especially considering it's been, at least to a small extent, 'uncovered'. None the less, it's a clear, distinct, indisputable example of the CIA, an intelligence organization that's supposed to protect Americans, taking extreme and frightening liberties with their power to do things any decent person would immediately identify as being sick and wrong. It's also not the only example of this sort of callous and alarming behavior by the CIA. If an organization with a long history of trampling all over the human rights of not only people abroad, but also its own citizens, not only survives but thrives in a democratic setting, one has to wonder at just how 'democratic' that setting really is, and if 'the people' really have any solid say in the management of their country. MKultra has little to do with 9/11 directly, but it establishes that one of the primary institutions in which America places its trust where National Security and investigating 9/11 is concerned has by no means demonstrated itself as trustworthy, and are, if their history is any indication, entirely willing to not only lie too/mislead Americans, but also violate their rights.

I'm of the opinion elements of the CIA were complicit in the 9/11 attacks. The extent of that complicity I'm uncertain of, but there's little doubt in my mind really.
Well stated . . . I don't know if I would go so far as to say . . . "I'm of the opinion elements of the CIA were complicit in the 9/11 attacks. The extent of that complicity I'm uncertain of, but there's little doubt in my mind really."

I certainly think they knew more than has been disclosed to the public . . . and like all other covert and national security agencies they are compartmentalized on purpose so one hand does not know what the other hand is doing . . .
 
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