Debunked: Sandy Hook. Media staging photos.

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Pete Tar

Senior Member.
wow well spotted.
I did almost suggest the tray of a small truck or 4wd, but wasn't exactly sure what it would look like.
Does that mean the silver car in the top left is the car in the foreground?
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
wow well spotted.
I did almost suggest the tray of a small truck or 4wd, but wasn't exactly sure what it would look like.
Does that mean the silver car in the top left is the car in the foreground?

It's very likely.

EDIT
No, it is not. It appears that the car in the foreground is of purple colour and has one door open.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The rear end of the truck (in this cropped image from the second photo in #12):

That, or something similar. And note that cars move, and the images are from different times, and there are lots of cars and trucks.

Hop, when asking questions it would be helpful if you could say why you think the question is significant.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
i should spell this out for you, what do you think the thing in the red box is?

The rear end of the truck (in this cropped image from the second photo in #12):


Having looked at the rear end of this truck on other videos, I concluded that it is definitely not the thing in the red box.
The latter is probably a timber bar lying across the luggage rails of the purple car in the foreground. It is similar to the timber bars on the top of the red van in the second video on the following page:

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/fairfield_cty/shooting-newtown-school#

Screen shot 2013-03-04 at 16.58.19.png
(on the left hand screen from 0:49)

In fact, one can see the reflection of this bar in the roof and side window of the purple car. Judging by its open door, this car was a recent arrival at the scene.
 
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U

Unregistered

Guest
What time do you think they found out? Between 9:30 and what 11:30? Maybe noonish? There's live footage of the parking lot and these grey cars aren't there. Maybe it happend some someplace else or on another day.....what does that really mean anyway? This video is great! The brown building? That's easy! They moved it when they moved the cars because cars move! But what about the staging area behind the ambulances? They park the grey cop cars on that?
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Look at who's getting camera time! Really? Do you guys think they'd be told right there in the same area? You tell a family something like that in private. Oh and the cop just recognized the picture enough to positively ID her son? Get the F out of here. Come on guys! Are the lights on upstairs?

And don't tell me I want to believe any of this horrible mess. The conspiracy is WTF with all the double talk, conflicting reports, secrets and make shit up as we go BS.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Look at who's getting camera time! Really? Do you guys think they'd be told right there in the same area? You tell a family something like that in private. Oh and the cop just recognized the picture enough to positively ID her son? Get the F out of here. Come on guys! Are the lights on upstairs?

And don't tell me I want to believe any of this horrible mess. The conspiracy is WTF with all the double talk, conflicting reports, secrets and make shit up as we go BS.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Look at who's getting camera time! Really? Do you guys think they'd be told right there in the same area? You tell a family something like that in private. Oh and the cop just recognized the picture enough to positively ID her son? Get the F out of here.

Where are families being told in public?

I see people looking for their children. I see people with children. I see people who have found out their children are head. I don't see anyone being told their children are dead.

Anyway, it's a huge chaotic and emotional situation. You expect everyone to behave calm and rationally?
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
She isn't crying, looks frantic, grabs the phone, shows the picture and breaks down. Come on, man! It wouldn't happen like that. How good of a look did the cop get? Give me a break
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
She isn't crying, looks frantic, grabs the phone, shows the picture and breaks down. Come on, man! It wouldn't happen like that. How good of a look did the cop get? Give me a break

She's breaking down because she can't find her son. The cop can't help. She suspects her son might be dead. What do you expect?

Try looking at things from the "it was just a school shooting" perspective for a day or two. Things fit that theory a lot better.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
It's way to convenient that these two families are front and center. I'd like to know what time this is too. I don't understand how the brown building in the picture either. I appreciate your opinion, thanks.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
It's way to convenient that these two families are front and center. I'd like to know what time this is too. I don't understand how the brown building in the picture either. I appreciate your opinion, thanks.

It's perspective. Some shots are taken with a raised zoom lens from across the road which makes things look closer. Some are taken from inside the parking lot at shoulder level, so things look further away, or are obscured.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
hopstoopid, this site isn't about providing answers to whatever questions happen to pop into your head, it's about debunking evidence. You complain that we have not shown you sufficient proof that your theory of the discrepancy between the two photos is untrue, and thus, has not been debunked. Except we are just following Hitchen's Razor: The evidence you presented was suppositional and speculative, so the counter-argument (that the cars moved) was likewise speculative (if you had stronger evidence, then a stronger counter-argument would be needed to debunk it). Is this definitive proof? No. But we do not need definitive proof to debunk something when the evidence itself is so weak (in the sense that it does not pass Occam's Razor and requires one to presuppose that your staging theory is true). And keep in mind, this is, by your own admission, your BEST piece of evidence. And if a theory's most compelling evidence is that weak, and a better (less suppositional and fits with the facts) explanation is offered, then that theory is effectively bunk.
Also, the fact that you ask a lot of questions is not evidence of a conspiracy; it just means you've asked a lot of questions. And as Mick said, if you're disgruntled by the fact that most people here find your questions to be banal and silly (and have explained why they think that), then please explain why you think them to be worthwhile.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Has anyone figured out what time this was and compared backgrounds?

What time are they getting to the fire station? That'll give me all the perspective I need.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
Has anyone figured out what time this was and compared backgrounds?

What time are they getting to the fire station? That'll give me all the perspective I need.


Above (in the previous page) I have timestamped the two different aerial shots of the fire station using the shadow directions. The earlier one had been taken about 11 AM and the later one about 3 PM. I have also estimated the time of the alleged 'staged' ground shots being between about 3 PM and sunset (at 4:24 PM)
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Look at who's getting camera time! Really? Do you guys think they'd be told right there in the same area? You tell a family something like that in private. Oh and the cop just recognized the picture enough to positively ID her son? Get the F out of here. Come on guys! Are the lights on upstairs?

And don't tell me I want to believe any of this horrible mess. The conspiracy is WTF with all the double talk, conflicting reports, secrets and make shit up as we go BS.

How do you know "when" the person in the photo was told? Couldn't she have been told earlier, and just be breaking down again outside? I seriously do not understand all these questions. I think unless you see something happening right in front of you (like in a movie) you can't tell what is going on and you begin to make up all these "backstories".
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Nobody wants any of this to happen, but if any footage is proven staged then the whole thing is staged. Regardless what you say is happening here the fact is the background doesn't reflect what we know is there. This not meaning anything to some of you or your refusal to recoginize it's importance is also troublesome. This needs further attention and someone needs to explain why or how this is.
 

hopstoopid

Banned
Banned
"That, or something similar. And note that cars move, and the images are from different times, and there are lots of cars and trucks."


OK i think i get it, so what you are saying is "cars move" maybe you missed the fact that i would like to MOVE on. I have thought of that concept before I made my video, but since I couldn't find any evidence to refute the pictures, I decided to put it up here. Since you guys don't have anything to prove my theory wrong. You can speculate all you want. This doesn't convince me, sorry. If something new comes up we can post, if not, for the bunch of you to keep the rallying cry of cars move, even AFTER i agreed to disagree." Fine. I will concede to the overwhelming majority, cars move."

"Hop, when asking questions it would be helpful if you could say why you think the question is significant. "

The title of the thread is media's staging photos. should i really explain to you why this is significant?

I will breakdown the questions to make it easier for those who don't follow more than 2 posts at a time.

1. why are the pictures so radically different than any live shots taken. ?
a) can we figure out what time it is exactly in these "staged" shots.?
b) if so can we match these pictures to the pictures we have where we can guess a time. ?

I think we should just move on to #2. opinions differ, until there is substantial evidence either way, i'm tired of this "cars moved".

2. i've shown pretty good evidence to the fact that there is NO sun in the back parking lot, even though the sun is obviously out. i've shown how the trees would not cause total shadow even up to sundown, and that if the sun is on the side of firehouse, it must be in the back as well. how can this be explained?

3. I've shown how there appears to be a fence in the middle of the parking lot of one of these "staged" photos. The evidence shows it to be a piece of wood. There has only been one truck that is pictured to have these beams on top. this truck is closer to the camera than the grey cop car. Is there any other evidence of a 2nd car having wood on it being near this spot? Is there anything else to support your thinking that is from the top of a car/truck?

sandy hook5, truck with wood on hood..jpg

4. why, in the first picture, is there a red/purple car in front and NOT the grey cop car we see in every other photo from this spot, before AND after
. this looks to my eyes, to be the same angle, notice the planter and the brown building behind.
sandy hook5multi  pic of cop cars and angle.jpg

I got plenty of more pictures to put up here.

Anybody have any answers for 2,3 4? please i would love to hear them.

also if we labeled the 6 pictures from left to right1-6. can we guess the sequence of these pictures.? I will guess first, ok JR, then you guess, or answer one of the last 3 questions. my guess is 3rd pic first, then 2, 5, 1, 6, 4.

thanks to trailspotter for at least attempting to find the right answer, doing research, and not blindly guessing.

To those keeping track, I've presented a theory that the pictures are faked. I've have supported this theory with pictures and charts to explain this theory. There has been speculation as to why I'm wrong, even using occam's razor . Besides this, I haven't had any evidence, to show my theory is wrong, yet. Despite this fact, this thread has been labeled with a "debunked" in the title. You guys can use whatever terms you want to make yourselves feel smarter, I do NOT have to agree with the "easiest possible explanation" I do NOT have to prove every theory of the sandy hook hoax, to pose these particular questions.

If you don't have a well thought out opinion on this, then please don't comment here. If you have a simple logical answer, with something to back it up. Great! I honestly don't care if I am wrong. Its more like I'm trying to figure out a logic puzzle, and piece together ALL the information I have. You have to ask a lot of questions in order to cross some of the options off. I am not ready to cross of #1 yet, and I haven't been able to find the right answers to the others. If you would like to help by proving me wrong. please do, if you would like to help, by proving me right, all the better,(for me). If you have questions that you haven't figured out yet that are on topic(media staging photos) then Yes ask them here.

If your answer is "who cares". fine . Although I'm not sure why posting that helps anyone.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
You are joking right - you're read this thread and you say the background doesn't reflect what was there??

Sorry - I can't take this conspiracy even vaguely seriously* anymore - it is more stupid than most, and grossly insulting to the families of the bereaved as well.

* - which is to say I am no longer going to bother being polite about my contempt for the people pushing it
 

Cairenn

Senior Member.
We have EXPLAINED why things change and it seems that you choose to ignore that. I agree with MikeC.

Now I asked a question you never answered. If the pictures were 'faked' then when did they do that? How did folks not notice that? Newtown has been in the news ever since and reporters are often in town. If they did it before, then WHY did no one notice? Newtown is a small town and anything major like staging those pictures would have had the tongues a wagging like my puppy's tail. Even if they told folks it was for a 'movie', there would have been folks outside of Newtown that knew.

Please answer this question.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
The photos and video are taken at different times. Different focal lengths were used. Different exposures were used. Different apertures were used. Different vantage points were used. Cars, people, and the sun move. There are trees and hills and cars and buildings that cast shadows. That's all there is to it.

I'm inclined to agree with Mike. This is just a waste of time. Sorry about that, but unless you create a 3D simulation of the scene, with all the people in it, and the sun, and the terrain, and the trees, and the different camera viewpoints, and show there's some kind of discrepancy, then you have nothing.

Email me when you have that, and I'll unlock the thread. metabunk@gmail.com

hopstoopid is banned for one year, or until he actually produces something.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
3. I've shown how there appears to be a fence in the middle of the parking lot of one of these "staged" photos. The evidence shows it to be a piece of wood. There has only been one truck that is pictured to have these beams on top. this truck is closer to the camera than the grey cop car. Is there any other evidence of a 2nd car having wood on it being near this spot? Is there anything else to support your thinking that is from the top of a car/truck?

sandy hook5, truck with wood on hood..jpg

4. why, in the first picture, is there a red/purple car in front and NOT the grey cop car we see in every other photo from this spot, before AND after

I will answer only these two points. The above photograph allows the identification of both cars in the picture: the red truck at the background and the dark red/purple car with the wooden beams on the roof in the foreground. These cars did not move during the day, they are present on both areal shots presented in #12 and all other aerial footage that I could find.

The red truck is parked along the wall of the building as better seen in this picture:
sandyhook-aerial.jpg
In the quoted photo above, the shrubbery behind the cabin and a fragment of the building window seen through the car windows confirm the same location of the red truck.

The car with the wooden beams is parked closer to the main road near the big red fire truck parked on the road. You can see all three cars in the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aX2ITHV6k-U#! at 04:35

Screen shot 2013-03-06 at 00.16.56.png

The big fire truck features in the vimeo video (most prominently, from 04:57). This video apparently has been taken from a higher ground on the other side of the road. The distal shots were taken over the hood of the fire truck, but closer ones would have to be obscured by it. This is why we do not see the car with the wooden beams in the vimeo video and see the red truck only at the end (at 05:09) when the cameraman moved closer to the scene. But we can see the heads and top parts of the group of four grieving people at 03:22

Screen shot 2013-03-06 at 00.31.53.png

The red thing in the front is the hood of the big fire truck. We can see the same group of people on two pictures taken from behind the car with the beams at different angles. As these four people appear standing or walking at about the same place somewhere between the red truck and the car with the beams, these two pictures probably had been taken at about the same time as in the vimeo video. This time is apparently in the afternoon of December 14th 2012, meaning these also were "live" pictures.
 

JonJson

Active Member
2. i've shown pretty good evidence to the fact that there is NO sun in the back parking lot, even though the sun is obviously out. i've shown how the trees would not cause total shadow even up to sundown, and that if the sun is on the side of firehouse, it must be in the back as well. how can this be explained?
Okay I have a question for you on this point of yours and was wondering if you looked into what the cloud cover was that day? I know that cloud cover can at times be sufficient to give the effect of shading in areas where there are no trees or buildings to create shadows.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
2. i've shown pretty good evidence to the fact that there is NO sun in the back parking lot, even though the sun is obviously out. i've shown how the trees would not cause total shadow even up to sundown, and that if the sun is on the side of firehouse, it must be in the back as well. how can this be explained?

May I ask what your theory is to explain why there is no sun in the back parking lot?
 

Met Watch

Moderator
2. i've shown pretty good evidence to the fact that there is NO sun in the back parking lot, even though the sun is obviously out. i've shown how the trees would not cause total shadow even up to sundown, and that if the sun is on the side of firehouse, it must be in the back as well. how can this be explained?
Okay I have a question for you on this point of yours and was wondering if you looked into what the cloud cover was that day? I know that cloud cover can at times be sufficient to give the effect of shading in areas where there are no trees or buildings to create shadows.

From Waterbury-Oxford Airport, 14 miles to the NE. METAR data is for 8:45 AM and 9:45 AM.

KOXC 141445Z 27004KT 10SM CLR 02/M06 A3023

KOXC 141345Z 22004KT 10SM CLR 00/M06 A3023


Skies were clear the entire day.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
Also a factor may be how a camera adjusts the rest of the picture when a strong source of light is present, eg, the surface area of a planter or low wall in a strong light source will affect how the camera brings out the rest of the picture.
I don't know of course what cameras were used or how they worked, but it seems a reasonable factor to consider.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
JonJson was quoting hopstoopid from post #99, but it looked from his initial post that he himself made the claim. I've edited the post above to clarify the quoting issue.

Jon, it's best to use "reply with quote", then edit down the quote to the bit you want to reply to.
 

JonJson

Active Member
May I ask what your theory is to explain why there is no sun in the back parking lot?


Sorry I am new to the site and haven't quite got all of the mechanics down. I hope that I didn't cause any confusion in my previous reply. I had meant to be replying to "hopstoopid".

I began looking around for photos and will agree that the cloud cover while sparse probably couldn't cause enough shadowing to create any real shadows covering areas of the parking lot.

SandyHook1.png
So I also found this aerial photo from the east side of the fire station looking west.
You can see the shadows extending into the rear parking lot and covering parts of the lot while leaving other areas in relative sunshine. If you look at the clump of people you can see them standing in a patch of shade that is caused by something but I am not sure what it is.

school_shooting_sandy_hook2.jpg
 

JonJson

Active Member
If you look at the clump of people you can see them standing in a patch of shade that is caused by something but I am not sure what it is.

school_shooting_sandy_hook2.jpg

Okay so after some simple measuring of the shadow lengths it is clear that the people furthest from the building are the source of the shadow.
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Maybe I'm a little slow, but what is the point in determining the shadow length and the time of the day?
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
So I also found this aerial photo from the east side of the fire station looking west.
You can see the shadows extending into the rear parking lot and covering parts of the lot while leaving other areas in relative sunshine. If you look at the clump of people you can see them standing in a patch of shade that is caused by something but I am not sure what it is.

school_shooting_sandy_hook2.jpg


I found two more photos probably taken during the same helicopter flight around. Compared to photo 2 in #12 (estimated time is about 3 PM), the fire engines and ambulances have gone, so these are even later shots. Indeed, the shadows are long and getting longer as the sun sets down. It is quite noticeable how they change even between these three shots.

Sandy-Hook.jpg

In the last photo below, the area furthest from the main road is completely shaded. In the upper left corner, there is a glimpse of the police cars parked in this area. These probably are the same cars that appeared later in the video taken from the ground.

158375846.jpg
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
Establishing a timeline. The theory is that it is staged with some fake video. It's a baseless theory.


OK thanks. I didn't realize they were claiming the video was filmed at a different time. I always thought the "theory" was it was a live action performance, not taped in advance. One would think there would have been reports of so many cars and people gathering at the the time of the "filming". Yet no one in town mentioned it.
 

Trailspotter

Senior Member.
There is a small overlap of the areas in the third photo in my post #113 above and in the picture of a row of the police cars in #67 in the previous page:

Overlapping area with the police cars.png

I cropped the overlapping parts and rotated one of them to highlight the same pattern of dark and light spots and the tire tracks on the ground. This exercise supports the location of the police cars suggested by Unregister in #67 and provides sufficient evidence of these cars being in this place by the end of the day. It has also been established that this area was already in the shade at the time. Thus, it is fully consistent with the background in the video taken from the ground.
 

vash1972

New Member
The police tape was put up about just before 11 am. Not sure if there was a connection but this is just after an argument between a reporter taking pictures of parents and their children without permission. and parent got mad. You can see the parent giving said reporter the finger. in one of the aerial videos. I figured out the time of the video based on the ground video posted by new 8 video from 11 am where the tape is seen and one of the victims is wheeled out to be loaded into an ambulance. In the aerial video at the end of the video you can see the ambulance pulling away after it was loaded. Which nails down the time just a bit.

at 7:58 you can see the ambulance with the victim shown in the new 8 video at 11am. So that gives some time frame of this video at least. I saw someone quote Pat Jack and he was off on this videos time by 30 minutes or so. at 1:53 you can see teh parent in the confrontation with a reporter. 2:21 you can see him give the reporter the finger. Again I am not sure if this had something to do with the police tape going up and the reporters not being allowed pass it as the reporter on the news 8 clip states but it would seem possible.

it is more likely they moved to make room for the ambulances to be used later that evening to go in for the body removals. Those cars were blocking the road for the most part earlier as you can see int eh aerial footage. At least that is the way it would look to me. And it is what makes the most sense.

if any footage was stage then all of it was. All or nothing arguments are just plain stupid. Of course you do not apply that same level of requirement to any of the conspiracy theories only to those you do not like it seems. By your logic if any of the theories are shown to be false then they are all false. And a bunch of them have been proven as false.

you do know you can see the cop cars behind the people in 4 of the 6 pictures you posted right. You even posted the picture of the van with the luggage rack you mistaken for a fence. in one of the pictures. You were given the right answers but refuse them because they did not fit your theory.
 

Scottyboi

Member
I've been busy. I haven't been distracted by the arguments on here that divert our attention from discussing the questions I had put forth.

I would love someone to debunk this. This is scary. Complicit media. They gave up asking questions 2 days after shooting. They'd rather mock "conspiracy theories" instead of ask the questions themselves. They'd rather cover the funerals, and move the story on to gun control. They are faking shots of photos that made 99% of the world sympathetic for them. They faked them! Please explain to me what i missed. Have fun!

At precisely 3:57 on the video you can see the lady with the clipboard walk through the wooden planter, if that's what you call it. Check and mate
 
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