Debunked: Crime Scene Photos "Prove" Sandy Hook was a Hoax

MikeG

Senior Member.
Apologies for not submitting photos in the earlier version of this post.

I was introduced to the Sandy Hook conspiracy subculture a few months ago and find it deeply disturbing. One of its lead proponents, Wolfgang Halbig (who appears quite a few times in Metabunk), recently resurfaced with what he is presenting as new “evidence” of the Sandy Hook “conspiracy,” namely a series of alleged crime scene photos of the school.

Exterior Photo #65.png Screen Shot 2015-04-22 at 7.16.56 AM.png Screen Shot 2015-04-22 at 7.17.18 AM.png Screen Shot 2015-04-22 at 7.18.11 AM.png Screen Shot 2015-04-22 at 7.19.04 AM.png

A recent interview appears here in its entirety

http://www.webookyourshow.com/blog/...Exclusive-Interview-with-Wolfgang-Halbig.aspx

And here:

http://winteractionables.com/?p=20138#more-20138

According to Halbig, the photos basically prove two things:

1. That the dilapidated state of the school demonstrated in the photos made it uninhabitable, therefore again “proving” that the building was abandoned at the time of the shootings.

2. That the pictures also reveal a number of strange anomalies that cannot be explained, again pointing to evidence of a conspiracy.

All that said, I have a few questions:

Are these actual photos of Sandy Hook?

If so, when were they taken and by whom?

What do they actually prove?
 

Auldy

Senior Member.
What do they actually prove?

Mostly that the school had been, like every other public funded school, savvy with its tight funding and choosing to not spend money on unnecessary cosmetic upkeep!

I would ask of these assertions of the photos:

Mould on the walls from flooding - why not, how about moss? Naturally occurring moss?

Safety Glass - what does normal safety glass look like? What are the actual regulations "referenced"?

Strange place to store an easel - Not really! Looks out of the way to me. Does every easel in every classroom need a designated easel cupboard storage location? Looks like a good use of a nook/cranny to me. But then again I am not looking for a conspiracy where there is none.

Water stained door - do we seriously expect every door in every school to be a clean sanitised portal from one room to another?

Boarded up wall - I don't think the wall looks boarded up. The wood is a different colour, but the cross beam is the same colour as the building and as you can see runs along its length (i.e. under the stairs and along the rest of the building) I would guess paint primer wasn't applied correctly to those sections which have led the paint to peel off/fade away quicker than the rest of the building? As for the handrail being dangerous to children, so are stairs, popsicles and those bollards.
 
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occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
What do they actually prove?

Nothing, really. It's just some guys opinion on what he thinks is wrong, much the same as the myriad of other CT bunk we come across.

His opinion seems to be based round the fact that the building codes, Occ safety rules and general untidiness prove that this is something other than an older government building where not everything is perfect, and not everything is as orderly as he would like it...

..and ignores obvious hints such as bullet holes, blood stains and autopsy reports of dead children.
 

Wedge

New Member
They prove an idiot can dupe other idiots.

1. Lots of exterior mold. Evidence of flooding. - There is moss in that photo...that's evidence of a corner of the school that doesn't get a lot of sun and might be subject to water/rain falling from the roof and splashing up on the side of the building. If it was flooding, there would be a watermark on the door.

2. Glass does not appear to be safety glass - Really? looks like the spider cracks too me...the kind you get with clear vinyl sandwiched between two panels of glass

3. Boarded up wall - So what? Looks to be done professionally or by design. Plus, he has no idea why that is there. He is attempting to portray what he sees as something nefarious.

4. Exposed metal pole - This school was what...1st through 6th grades? The "exposed metal pole" was, more than likely, an added handrail for the school's smallest/youngest student to hang on to.

5. Strange place to store an easel. - Most schools have some type of welcome sign in the foyer or entrance way of the school. Not to mention, Halbig has no idea when this easel was placed there.

6. Water stained doors. - I guess Halbig has never seen a floor thats been mopped or kicked by shoes and boots over a long period of time.

All of this just adds up to the fact that Halbig really ISN'T an expert at all.
 

occams rusty scissor

Senior Member.
6. Water stained doors. - I guess Halbig has never seen a floor thats been mopped or kicked by shoes and boots over a long period of time.

Exactly. I would point to this sort of thing as evidence that it was a school well used by kids and teachers, and that if it lacked all these normal hallmarks of wear and tear it would be strange.
 

Trailblazer

Moderator
Staff member
Wow, if this is evidence that a school is not really occupied by children then my daughter's preschool must be a false flag too! At the last parents' volunteer day in the autumn I was fixing up far worse stuff than that.
 

Wedge

New Member
Wow, if this is evidence that a school is not really occupied by children then my daughter's preschool must be a false flag too! At the last parents' volunteer day in the autumn I was fixing up far worse stuff than that.
Exactly. This is typical of what Halbig and FalseFlaggers do, they look at something they have no expertise in and then attempt to write a conspiracy narrative and shoehorn their ignorant perceptions into assertions...Assertions = Facts (to conspiracy folks)
 

Whitebeard

Senior Member.
They prove an idiot can dupe other idiots.

1. Lots of exterior mold. Evidence of flooding. - There is moss in that photo...that's evidence of a corner of the school that doesn't get a lot of sun and might be subject to water/rain falling from the roof and splashing up on the side of the building. If it was flooding, there would be a watermark on the door.

2. Glass does not appear to be safety glass - Really? looks like the spider cracks too me...the kind you get with clear vinyl sandwiched between two panels of glass

3. Boarded up wall - So what? Looks to be done professionally or by design. Plus, he has no idea why that is there. He is attempting to portray what he sees as something nefarious.

4. Exposed metal pole - This school was what...1st through 6th grades? The "exposed metal pole" was, more than likely, an added handrail for the school's smallest/youngest student to hang on to.

5. Strange place to store an easel. - Most schools have some type of welcome sign in the foyer or entrance way of the school. Not to mention, Halbig has no idea when this easel was placed there.

6. Water stained doors. - I guess Halbig has never seen a floor thats been mopped or kicked by shoes and boots over a long period of time.

All of this just adds up to the fact that Halbig really ISN'T an expert at all.

That was more or less what I was going to say.

With the addition that looking at the photos, with the exception of the bullet hole in the window, it looks like any other school that faced with tight budgets is forced to choose between spending on teaching or the fabric of its building worldwide. Here's a report on UK school buildings from a few years ago which show the exact same maintenance issues.
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2012/may/20/schools-unfit-to-learn-in

 

Balance

Senior Member.
I don't know about the US school cleaners specifically but I do know sloppy use of floor mops can easily create water stains on lower extremeties of doors, frames and walls and it's common to find notice boards (make-shift easel in this case?) erected at entrances to warn of slippery surfaces. But my guess is as good as any, I suppose.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
recently resurfaced with what he is presenting as new “evidence” of the Sandy Hook “conspiracy,
this is over a year old from Halbig. Every aspect has been debunked online just do a google search (not in the mood to search for them though because Halbig has too many ridiculous claims to bother with).

The easel door doesn't look familiar but the others are of SHE. The photos can be found in the official state police report, link below. they were taken the day after the shooting I believe, they tell you when in the report.

I don't know if the windows were safety glass, I see no reason they would have been as they are small windows not at ground level. You might be mixing up the conspiracy claims. I man named George Mason (googlable) originally started the safety glass spiel regarding the front doors, which do require special glass as people can fall into them or some such. I don't remember the specifics but again just do a google search "Sandy hook safety glass debunk" kind of thing.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/se...ort-and-official-reports-press-releases.3697/

edit: PS what happens with wood, and you can see this on any outdoor piece of furniture. the water from rain (or mopping) actually would go UNDER the door where there is little to no varnish and the water seeps UP the wood. That's why you get that discoloration on wood furniture exposed to 40+ years of water. And if you do see this on your outdoor furniture, just fyi, don't bother trying to sand it off because its from the inside out.
 
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deirdre

Senior Member.
here's one real quick, in regard to the front door. I didn't read your links but Halbig tends to mix things up. Small windows don't have the same safety requirements as say the full sheet front door area.
http://newtownpostexaminer.com/2014...ert-addresses-sandy-hook-broken-glass-claims/
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
I might just be living in a state where schools have to chose between propping up a collapsing roof and replacing 40 year old science books and still get budget cuts year after year, and maybe not all of the country's schools look like something out of Fallout, but... Nothing about that school appears particularly "unlivable" to me. I went to five different school buildings K-12, and honestly that looks better than all but two of them.
 

David Fraser

Senior Member.
Wow, if this is evidence that a school is not really occupied by children then my daughter's preschool must be a false flag too! At the last parents' volunteer day in the autumn I was fixing up far worse stuff than that.
Off topic but the primary school I attended had outdoor toilets for the boys. This was the 70's but the loo had no roof. It was all verry Victorian.
 

Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
Wow, suddenly the schools I went to don't seem so bad....

Strange place to store an easel.
I love this one. Strange place to store an easel, so... we logically conclude an entire school and all its pupils are made up?

I have a bottle of chocolate syrup and a tennis racket on the chair beside me... guess that means I don't exist... shucks.

(1) 'I think therefore I am.'

(2) 'I have chocolate syrup therefore I am not.'

(3) I both 'am' and 'am not'; and so we have proven the futility of all human ratiocination.
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
yea looking through some of my pics it seems they already knew about and were updating the door rot issue, maybe.

10647128_333184886856153_8275245642879725340_n.jpg usa-shooting-newtown.jpg stainless-steel-door-kick-plate-custom-made-1_1080.jpg
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
]Board of Education Approved Budget 2010-2011 - Newtown ...
www.newtown.k12.ct.us/.../BOE%20Budgets/bo...
Newtown School District

Jun 8, 2010 -BOARD of EDUCATION'S2010-2011 APPROVEDBUDGETfor the NEWTOWN ....Sandy.Hook. 10.1%. Hawley. 8.0%. Middle.School. 17.0%. Middle .... REPAIR ANDPAINTPORTABLES ... Capital ImprovementPlan


-----------------------------------------

]Board of Education Approved Budget 2011-2012 - Newtown ...
www.newtown.k12.ct.us/.../BOE%20Budgets/BOE...
Newtown School District

Sep 20, 2011 -Adjustments Made to the Newtown PublicSchools'2011-12Budgetiv. Final2011-12 Board ... Building & Site Maintenance Projects - Five YearPlan. 64 ii. 9/20/11 .... REINSTATESANDY HOOK.5 KINDERGARTEN TEACHER. $28,628 ...... REPAIR ANDPAINTSTUCCO OUTSIDE LOCATIONS. SAFETY. H
 

NoParty

Senior Member.
What do they actually prove?

That the "Truthers" are getting pretty desperate.

When you're arguing that where an easel is, is "evidence" worth noting, you know your evidence sucks.
(full disclosure: I have an easel in my office right now...and it's leaning even more suspiciously!! :eek:)



(And not to be too logical or anything...but if this was really a big super-secret false flag
for reasons (never made clear) then wouldn't the government have done everything in their
power to make sure that their stage looked as much like a functioning school as possible?
I mean, the assertion that the school was visibly in too much disrepair to be functional,
directly contradicts the CTer's own claim that the gov orchestrated some huge false event
good enough to fool the overwhelming majority of society.)
 
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Skaredstiff

Member
They prove an idiot can dupe other idiots.

1. Lots of exterior mold. Evidence of flooding. - There is moss in that photo...that's evidence of a corner of the school that doesn't get a lot of sun and might be subject to water/rain falling from the roof and splashing up on the side of the building. If it was flooding, there would be a watermark on the door.

2. Glass does not appear to be safety glass - Really? looks like the spider cracks too me...the kind you get with clear vinyl sandwiched between two panels of glass

3. Boarded up wall - So what? Looks to be done professionally or by design. Plus, he has no idea why that is there. He is attempting to portray what he sees as something nefarious.

4. Exposed metal pole - This school was what...1st through 6th grades? The "exposed metal pole" was, more than likely, an added handrail for the school's smallest/youngest student to hang on to.

5. Strange place to store an easel. - Most schools have some type of welcome sign in the foyer or entrance way of the school. Not to mention, Halbig has no idea when this easel was placed there.

6. Water stained doors. - I guess Halbig has never seen a floor thats been mopped or kicked by shoes and boots over a long period of time.

All of this just adds up to the fact that Halbig really ISN'T an expert at all.

Also, right below the easel there is plainly visible a black mouse, or other rodent, trap. Seems like if the place really was not being operated why would anyone go to the trouble of pest control? Unattended these type traps can become real harbors of some pretty nasty diseases once the deceased rodents begin to decompose. On the other hand if the building were frequented by children, like every day, it would be a wise, if not a law compliance required activity to control pests that the children would possibly come in contact with? Is it possible that some "truthers" are just out there trolling to see how much of a tizzy they can drum up on the internet?
 

deirdre

Senior Member.
Not in that spot. Looks like a mouse bait station
yes. Connecticut has very polite mice, they always knock before coming in. : )

it was exactly the time of year mice start heading indoors. so probably a mouse trap. I think door stops that go under doors are more ramp shape.
 

Auldy

Senior Member.
yes. Connecticut has very polite mice, they always knock before coming in. : )

it was exactly the time of year mice start heading indoors. so probably a mouse trap. I think door stops that go under doors are more ramp shape.

"WHY WAS THERE A MOUSE TRAP INSIDE? WHY WAS IT NEXT TO A DOOR? MICE DON'T USE DOOR'S; THEREFORE SANDY HOOK SCHOOL FAKE" - Wolfgang Halbig (probably)
 

Jeremy

Active Member
I've noticed with Sandy Hook that there's been a change of tone in school shooting conspiracy theories. I remember that there were a lot that popped up after the Columbine killings, but I don't recall anyone claiming the massacre was a hoax and that the dead students never existed. In fact, a couple of Columbine truthers included the parents of shooting victims and students who survived it.
 

Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
And not to be too logical or anything...but if this was really a big super-secret false flag
for reasons (never made clear) then wouldn't the government have done everything in their
power to make sure that their stage looked as much like a functioning school as possible?
I mean, the assertion that the school was visibly in too much disrepair to be functional,
directly contradicts the CTer's own claim that the gov orchestrated some huge false event
good enough to fool the overwhelming majority of society.
That goes directly to the contradiction at the heart of so many conspiracy theories - the government/Bilderburgers/reptilians are incredibly capable and competent, and command enormous resources, and are able to pull off vast and elaborate schemes right under the people's noses; and they're also incredibly inept, and anyone with a brain and eyes can 'just look up' or watch a ten-minute clip on YouTube and see right through everything they do.

We're all being brainwashed by MK Ultra, and the hardy souls over on infowars - aren't?

We're being lied to and misled, and elites are poisoning the entire planet to death, and prominent people are being assassinated everywhere - and David Icke can say whatever he'd like on YouTube or Coast to Coast AM without fear of the sniper's bullet.

So, yeah, a great big CIA false flag operation that couldn't bring in a couple of janitors to 'spruce up' the building first is nothing out of the ordinary.
 

Skaredstiff

Member
That goes directly to the contradiction at the heart of so many conspiracy theories - the government/Bilderburgers/reptilians are incredibly capable and competent, and command enormous resources, and are able to pull off vast and elaborate schemes right under the people's noses; and they're also incredibly inept, and anyone with a brain and eyes can 'just look up' or watch a ten-minute clip on YouTube and see right through everything they do.

We're all being brainwashed by MK Ultra, and the hardy souls over on infowars - aren't?

We're being lied to and misled, and elites are poisoning the entire planet to death, and prominent people are being assassinated everywhere - and David Icke can say whatever he'd like on YouTube or Coast to Coast AM without fear of the sniper's bullet.

So, yeah, a great big CIA false flag operation that couldn't bring in a couple of janitors to 'spruce up' the building first is nothing out of the ordinary.

Yes, and is it not strange with the number of people required to carry out this grand scale "false flag", if it is staged, would have to be in dozens, if not hundreds?

Where are the whistle blowers? Seems that nothing is a secret if more than one person is aware of the situation! Possibly those in control have brainwashed all of the unwitting participants to the point that even the actors are not aware?
 

Wedge

New Member
And, it's not just the "whistleblowers" but, where are the people who knew any of the "actors" at any point of their lives to come forward and say "Hey, his names not Robbie Parker" or, "They didn't have a daughter name Emilie"....or, "I know that little girl and her name isn't Emilie".

Where is ANYONE like that?
 

JRBids

Senior Member.
That goes directly to the contradiction at the heart of so many conspiracy theories - the government/Bilderburgers/reptilians are incredibly capable and competent, and command enormous resources, and are able to pull off vast and elaborate schemes right under the people's noses; and they're also incredibly inept, and anyone with a brain and eyes can 'just look up' or watch a ten-minute clip on YouTube and see right through everything they do.

We're all being brainwashed by MK Ultra, and the hardy souls over on infowars - aren't?

We're being lied to and misled, and elites are poisoning the entire planet to death, and prominent people are being assassinated everywhere - and David Icke can say whatever he'd like on YouTube or Coast to Coast AM without fear of the sniper's bullet.

So, yeah, a great big CIA false flag operation that couldn't bring in a couple of janitors to 'spruce up' the building first is nothing out of the ordinary.


When I have pointed that out I've been told that "they" like to plant clues so in effect they're rubbing it in our faces. They also plant clues BEFORE an event, like 9/11 in old Simpsons cartoons, because it's "predictive programming" or to acclimate us to seeing something and thinking it's normal.
 

Wedge

New Member
That's rich. Funny thing though, they have answers to all those types of questions but, cannot answer the obvious, "Show the evidence that proves Adam Lanza did not shoot and kill 27 people in Newtown on Dec 14, 2012"
 

Chris Hill

Member
An honest assessment of the debunking going on here:

If I can come up with a story, no matter its likelihood to be true, I have debunked the material.

Guys, from the dozens of crime scene photos available there is a fact that can be established:

In every photograph, the area pictured is one or more of the following: dirty, disheveled, in a state of disrepair, neglected, in violation of Connecticut public school code.

Finding these things in a few photographs is to be somewhat expected - no school is perfect. Finding them in every photograph, inside and outside the school, proves Sandy Hook Elementary was not the attractive school that the parents made it out to be in the many interviews they conducted after the incident. This, in turn, suggests a conspiracy by the parents to make the school sound much nicer than it was. The only alternative is that they all decided to lie about the school on their own. This is highly unlikely, and cannot be assumed.

Going with the most likely conclusion based on the evidence, why is formulating a story about a very dirty school being attractive and wonderful an important thing for them all to agree upon seeing as they just lost their children? This question suggests more than meets the eye is at hand here.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
An honest assessment of the debunking going on here:

If I can come up with a story, no matter its likelihood to be true, I have debunked the material.
Quote of examples please, don't paraphrase people.

If something extraordinary is being claimed, with little evidence, then it's not really on the skeptics to come up with detailed explanations for trivial things. It can be dismissed trivially. The quality of debunking goes up in comparison to the quality of the claim. The quality of this claim is very low.
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
Not every picture. Just the ones selected by Halbig for the claims.

The full collection shows recent repairs (and indications of pending or in progress repairs), replaced or refinished doors, recently installed kickplates, new tiles, temporary signage, recent paint, newer door hardware, and so forth.
 

Pete Tar

Senior Member.
This, in turn, suggests a conspiracy by the parents to make the school sound much nicer than it was. The only alternative is that they all decided to lie about the school on their own. This is highly unlikely, and cannot be assumed.
Well can you quote them? What was the context of their quotes? A school can be a wonderful place even if it's a cave in a hill - it's the people that make a school.
 

Santa's sidekick

Senior Member
An honest assessment of the debunking going on here:

If I can come up with a story, no matter its likelihood to be true, I have debunked the material.

Guys, from the dozens of crime scene photos available there is a fact that can be established:

In every photograph, the area pictured is one or more of the following: dirty, disheveled, in a state of disrepair, neglected, in violation of Connecticut public school code.

Finding these things in a few photographs is to be somewhat expected - no school is perfect. Finding them in every photograph, inside and outside the school, proves Sandy Hook Elementary was not the attractive school that the parents made it out to be in the many interviews they conducted after the incident. This, in turn, suggests a conspiracy by the parents to make the school sound much nicer than it was. The only alternative is that they all decided to lie about the school on their own. This is highly unlikely, and cannot be assumed.

Going with the most likely conclusion based on the evidence, why is formulating a story about a very dirty school being attractive and wonderful an important thing for them all to agree upon seeing as they just lost their children? This question suggests more than meets the eye is at hand here.
Parents are sometimes very rosy-eyed when they like their children's schools.

My dad is on the board of an independent girls' school. Some while ago, the school sent out anonymous questionnaires asking parents to rate their satisfaction with the school in a number of areas, one of which was 'campus comfort'. Now, the school is in the middle of an extensive building and renovation project, and one of the older buildings had had no functioning heating for a week at the end of that year's winter. So I was amazed when looking through some of the completed questionnaires to find one that rated the 'campus comfort' a hearty ten out of ten, and had a scrawled note attached that read: 'no heat - but lots of warmth'!
 

Hevach

Senior Member.
Parents are sometimes very rosy-eyed when they like their children's schools.
And this is much more based on their contact with their kid's teachers and with the administration than the actual quality of the facility or even the education. People generally know how badly funded schools are and they don't expect a great deal from the facilities, but they do expect professionalism from the faculty.
 
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