Debunked: Aerosol Geoengineering Film Footage Reality [Fuel Dumps]

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
On Facebook today, Dane Wigington explained what he thought you should show to people when asked for proof of geoengineering spraying:

https://www.facebook.com/dane.wigington.geoengineeringwatch.org/posts/737363629659091
The linked article is:
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/aerosol-geoengineering-film-footage-reality/
And the video "proof" is:

The video is a compilation of planes dumping fuel. Planes dump fuel when they have to make an emergency landing, so they are at a safe weight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dumping
Not only should this be fairly obvious from looking at the video, you can even find the original videos (in much better quality) on YouTube, with explanations of the context. For example, this one:

comes from this 2011 video:

And there are many other videos showing exactly the same thing, with detailed descriptions of the flight, and the reason why the plane had to make an early landing, for example:

From the ground, a fuel dump is fairly distinctive. It (usually) starts from the wingtips, and fades away into a kind of haze. Very different to contrails.



And here's what it looks like up close on an A340-642


Source: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa/Airbus-A340-642/2489715/L/

So what are we to make of this mischaracterization by GeoengineeringWatch? It's hard to describe it as an honest mistake, as the same mistake has been made for many years, and this mistake has been pointed out repeatedly, and yet they still keep saying the same thing. It's more a kind of ignoring of inconvenient facts - quite likely exacerbated by it being "debunkers" who tell them these facts.
 

Rational Bee

New Member
So what are we to make of this mischaracterization by GeoengineeringWatch?
It's either dishonesty (not wanting to give up a position of influence and standing) of cognitive dissonance (unable to see mistakes in the argument, let alone concede those mistakes were made).

The irony gets me every time. Apparently we are the ones who deny evidence, yet if this thread is read by DW and followers the 'debunking' counter evidence will be denied without rhyme or reason. The same people that will call us sheep will also regurgitate this without critical thought. Shame.

Keep up the good work.
 

JDubyah

Member
Apparently they don't like the original videos being posted in that thread. Comments and links to videos were deleted within a couple of minutes of adding, and the thread locked. Not the sign of a genuine effort to expose any truth, just promoting myths. Ah well.
 

JDubyah

Member
I'm a bit surprised by that choice of collage.

I guess people are screaming enough, "We want hard proof! Where are the nozzles?". So they made a video with nozzles.

Except these days, the theory seems to have shifted to fuel additives and not separate spraying mechanisms, so having a video of fuel dump nozzles seems to be going backwards a bit.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Do you think it is Dane, himself, who produced that or someone else?
I don't think it was Dane, there's an earlier version here:
( May 21, 2014, tbirdlauderdale)

And at the end there's a logo for uk-skywatch.co.uk

Dane has also continually promoted the KC-10 hoax video as being real. Regardless of the reasons, it clear there's a lack of genuine discourse here.
 

Hama Neggs

Senior Member.
I don't think it was Dane, there's an earlier version here:
( May 21, 2014, tbirdlauderdale)

And at the end there's a logo for uk-skywatch.co.uk

Dane has also continually promoted the KC-10 hoax video as being real. Regardless of the reasons, it clear there's a lack of genuine discourse here.
Clearly dishonest. I suspected another person was doing the grunt work and Dane is just being fed the stuff where he can play the 'figurhead' role. That disconnect will only lead to even more dishonest presentations, I think.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I guess people are screaming enough, "We want hard proof! Where are the nozzles?". So they made a video with nozzles.
AND, of course, in EVERY instance of a contrail.....the contrail presents immediately aft (after a normal gap) of the engines.

But, this hyperbole and hysteria-inducing type of presentation tends to "ramp-up" the "true believers".
 
Clearly dishonest. I suspected another person was doing the grunt work and Dane is just being fed the stuff where he can play the 'figurhead' role. That disconnect will only lead to even more dishonest presentations, I think.
Sounds like a conspiracy! :D

It's amazing what is acceptable as evidence in the minds of CTers. Videos like this are such weak evidence for such a complex theory like chem trails. If one were to take this as serious evidence, so many more questions would have to be raised. What is in the fluid? What sorts of flights are these? Are these planes releasing things in any amounts that would affect human life in any way? How much chemtrail fluid would be needed to spray effectively? If these are passenger flights, how can the plane hold jet fuel, passengers, their luggage, and a worthwhile amount of chemical and still fly? Occams razor holds true.
 
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WeedWhacker

Senior Member
What is in the fluid? What sorts of flights are these? Are these planes releasing things in any amounts that would affect human life in any way? Occams razor holds true.
Yes, indeed.

Perhaps (and I hope you can watch videos?) this one clearly lays out the reasons, using math and geometry....was made by another pilot (not me):

(Sorry about his...the video-maker's...intro. It is a clip from a Science Fiction series called "FireFly". (AND yes, click on that to link to the video clip for reference).
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
I am disturbed by the (apparent) "need" to lie to the public, and use videos (easily obtained from YouTube, or other sources) of the very rare occurrences of fuel jettison (or "dump", colloquially) as an attempt to buttress the claims of so-called "chem"trails.

It smacks of a sort of 'desperation' on behalf of those who continue to promote this MYTH and HOAX.
 

Josh Heuer

Active Member
Thanks to things I've read on Metabunk, I was able to debunk this for myself before seeing it here.
Mick (et al) does such a great job of laying out the facts (especially re: contrail science), it makes me wonder why people still buy into this stuff!
I just hope some of them find their way here or similar sites and don't get too caught up.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
I think in this instance Dane actually believes the video is evidence of geoengineering - he's not deliberately setting out to lie here.
 
Yes, indeed.

Perhaps (and I hope you can watch videos?) this one clearly lays out the reasons, using math and geometry....was made by another pilot (not me):

(Sorry about his...the video-maker's...intro. It is a clip from a Science Fiction series called "FireFly". (AND yes, click on that to link to the video clip for reference).
That video is great. It totally explains how utterly inefficient and useless it would be to spray chemicals from miles up in the sky as an effective means for controlling the population in any way.

The video's math also assumes the entire plane's payload is a poisonous chemical. Not to mention that the sheer amount of chemical needed to carry out this global conspiracy would cost way too much time and money. Though that's when I suppose people start adding things like the entire financial system is rigged to pay for all of the chemicals and supplies... All chemical producing companies are in on it...etc etc. The theory gets so complex and so many people with competing interests have to be involved, and then when you step back and look at it...the logic is just not plausible or realistic in any way.

Thanks for that video, WeedWhacker.
 
It took mere minutes to realize what this site is, it's the finest variety of astroturf. In the end the pressure and guilt that are part of the human psyche for a reason will overwhelm you. A waste of talent, honestly. But, for what? Family, friends, relationships will crumble like melting ice the longer you you wear the lie uniform. Look in the mirror each morning and ask yourself what you see. You'll liberate yourself eventually, the question is do you have the courage and character to do so???
 

Ross Marsden

Senior Member.
It took mere minutes to realize what this site is, it's the finest variety of astroturf. In the end the pressure and guilt that are part of the human psyche for a reason will overwhelm you. A waste of talent, honestly. But, for what? Family, friends, relationships will crumble like melting ice the longer you you wear the lie uniform. Look in the mirror each morning and ask yourself what you see. You'll liberate yourself eventually, the question is do you have the courage and character to do so???
So do you think the contributors here (like me) are fake?
If you Google my name you will see that I am real, and this is not the only place I contribute to debunking the chemtrails misinformation that is promoted by hoaxers and others.

Can you find anything purporting to be fact on this site that is actually false and not, in fact, factual?
 

KC-10FE

Senior Member.
It took mere minutes to realize what this site is, it's the finest variety of astroturf. In the end the pressure and guilt that are part of the human psyche for a reason will overwhelm you. A waste of talent, honestly. But, for what? Family, friends, relationships will crumble like melting ice the longer you you wear the lie uniform. Look in the mirror each morning and ask yourself what you see. You'll liberate yourself eventually, the question is do you have the courage and character to do so???
Surely you can't be serious


http://chromehorse.typepad.com/.a/6a01127947363b28a4016300e633cf970d-800wi
 

Peter

Member
I've posted a comment on Dane's facebook, including a link to the original video. Let's see how long it stays up.. Dane doesn't seem to like comments that challenge his beliefs.
 

TEEJ

Senior Member.
I've posted a comment on Dane's facebook, including a link to the original video. Let's see how long it stays up.. Dane doesn't seem to like comments that challenge his beliefs.
I agree it will be taken down very quickly. Also notice how Dane has disabled comments on his YT Channel for his upload of the video.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
This is conclusive evidence that Dane Wigington is intentionally deceptive.

It should serve as an example to any of his "fans" or "followers" that he is, indeed, a liar.
There's another possibility though. He maybe so convinced that he is right, that he feels that anything countering his position must be some kind of disinformation. He's simply not listening.
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
There's another possibility though. He maybe so convinced that he is right, that he feels that anything countering his position must be some kind of disinformation. He's simply not listening.
That is certainly one way to interpret his "position".

But, it still remains the case that (hopefully) those who have 'applauded' his efforts will one day realize who (or is it 'whom'?) they are admiring. This site (and others) remain in place to expose what is irrational.

{edit}: And, I hope the word "irrational" does not come off as 'impolite'. It is simply a description of a thought process (in humans) that chooses to ignore science and reason, in favour of a pre-determined belief and mind-set. It is the basis of religion, really, in the Human psyche.
 
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JDubyah

Member
There's another possibility though. He maybe so convinced that he is right, that he feels that anything countering his position must be some kind of disinformation. He's simply not listening.
Not listening is one thing.. turning off the sound so other's don't hear is closer to what he's doing, I think.

If he thought the posts that contradicted his information was untrue, or 'disinformation', he could and should simply prove it to be so. Editing it away as if it didn't exist seems more like perpetuating, if not a lie, then the version of the story he wants heard.

I posted the same vids on that thread before, and had them deleted within about a half hour. I hear a lot of talk about 'disinformation' over on that side of the fence, and I'd guess there's a another big confusion between 'information that's contrary to what I believe or would like to believe' and 'disinformation'. This site and contrailscience are often labelled 'disinformation' sites, when they contain not much more than plain old 'information'.
 

Joe Blow

New Member
Simply prove that weather modification and aerosol spraying is fiction. That's all you "debunkers" have to do. None of you have done so. You've deflected and misdirected. That isn't debunking.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Simply prove that weather modification and aerosol spraying is fiction. That's all you "debunkers" have to do. None of you have done so. You've deflected and misdirected. That isn't debunking.
Weather modification and aerosol spraying are not fiction - they happen all the time. So perhaps you are referring to something else?

Debunking is about looking at claims of evidence and seeing if they hold up. Are you aware of any particular claim of evidence that has not been debunked? How do you feel about this particular claim of evidence being debunked?
 

WeedWhacker

Senior Member
Simply prove that weather modification and aerosol spraying is fiction. That's all you "debunkers" have to do. None of you have done so. You've deflected and misdirected. That isn't debunking.
Nope. Opposite.

The "proof" of an event or action is the burden ('onus') of the one accusing.

Please, YOU show the "proof". It is so easy, nowadays....I mean, almost EVERYONE has a cell-phone with a camera, yes?

Take some pictures....not that hard. Find the "factories" where these "chemicals" are made, and then follow the trucks (or tankers) that must transport these (non-existent) "chemicals" to the airports....because, of course, the AIRPORT is where these (non-existent) "chemicals" must be, in order to be "loaded" onto airplanes....right?

SHOW that operation, too....the loading of (non-existent) "chemicals". TAKE PICTURES.

Also, might help: Learn about airport operations, and how things really work ON an airport.
 

MikeC

Closed Account
Simply prove that weather modification and aerosol spraying is fiction. That's all you "debunkers" have to do. None of you have done so. You've deflected and misdirected. That isn't debunking.
No it isn't - because there is nothing to debunk about weather modification and aerosol spraying being fiction - they exist, have done for decades.

What is debunked is that weather modification is geoenginering - it is not. And also specific claims that this or that aircraft are spraying unknown "chemtrails", and that persistent contrails cannot exist, and various others.
 

Joe Blow

New Member
Oh, so spraying chemicals into the different levels of atmosphere aren't weather modification and geo-engineering? Please, enlighten me. What is spraying chemical mixtures into the atmosphere, then?
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Oh, so spraying chemicals into the different levels of atmosphere aren't weather modification and geo-engineering? Please, enlighten me. What is spraying chemical mixtures into the atmosphere, then?
Weather modification is a real thing, it modifies the weather by attempting to adjust the precipitation from clouds by spraying on them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_modification

There are many companies that perform weather modification:
http://www.weathermodification.com/

Geoengineering, or more specifically climate engineering, is a real topic, but there's very little in the way of actual engineering going on besides painting roofs white and farming with charcoal. The type you are referring to, solar climate engineering by spraying from planes, is not known to happen. There's no evidence it is happening.

Perhaps if you gave a specific example of what evidence you are talking about?

And again, what do you think about the topic of this thread, the fuel dump video?
 

Joe Blow

New Member
Fuel dumping is not even relevant. It's a known thing. I worked for United Airlines from 1996-2000. Fuel dumping is a known fact. It happens a lot because sometimes aircraft are exceeding landing weight. But, it doesn't occur outside of airports, unless emergency landing are in order. Fuel dumping also doesn't hang in the sky for hours and spread out. Why? Because it happens at low altitudes, fuel evaporates very quickly and it happens just before landing (or emergency landing). Fuel dumping doesn't happen mid flight at 10s of thousands of feet. It happens near landing areas and at lower altitudes. And it is rare. Simply because it is usually not needed. Weight and balance is a huge consideration in commercial aircraft. So huge, in fact, that it's part and parcel to it's taxi routine. So to say, "fuel dumping" is what we're seeing when we see long lasting trails coming from aircraft, is completely disingenuous. At best, naive.
 

Mick West

Administrator
Staff member
Fuel dumping is not even relevant. It's a known thing. I worked for United Airlines from 1996-2000. Fuel dumping is a known fact. It happens a lot because sometimes aircraft are exceeding landing weight. But, it doesn't occur outside of airports, unless emergency landing are in order. Fuel dumping also doesn't hang in the sky for hours and spread out. Why? Because it happens at low altitudes, fuel evaporates very quickly and it happens just before landing (or emergency landing). Fuel dumping doesn't happen mid flight at 10s of thousands of feet. It happens near landing areas and at lower altitudes. And it is rare. Simply because it is usually not needed. Weight and balance is a huge consideration in commercial aircraft. So huge, in fact, that it's part and parcel to it's taxi routine. So to say, "fuel dumping" is what we're seeing when we see long lasting trails coming from aircraft, is completely disingenuous. At best, naive.
Who said that? What is said is that the video in the OP shows emergency fuel dumping, but passes it off as "chemtrails". That's all.

The vast majority of "what you are seeing" (assuming you mean the persistent trails left behind planes in some conditions) is almost certainly persistent exhaust contrails, not fuel dumps.
 

KC-10FE

Senior Member.
Fuel dumping is not even relevant. It's a known thing. I worked for United Airlines from 1996-2000. Fuel dumping is a known fact. It happens a lot because sometimes aircraft are exceeding landing weight. But, it doesn't occur outside of airports, unless emergency landing are in order. Fuel dumping also doesn't hang in the sky for hours and spread out. Why? Because it happens at low altitudes, fuel evaporates very quickly and it happens just before landing (or emergency landing). Fuel dumping doesn't happen mid flight at 10s of thousands of feet. It happens near landing areas and at lower altitudes. And it is rare. Simply because it is usually not needed. Weight and balance is a huge consideration in commercial aircraft. So huge, in fact, that it's part and parcel to it's taxi routine. So to say, "fuel dumping" is what we're seeing when we see long lasting trails coming from aircraft, is completely disingenuous. At best, naive.
Nobody said fuel dumping is what is causing the long white trails we are seeing in the skies, all Mick was doing was showing some videos of fuel dumping that chemtrail websites have used as their stone cold "evidence" of chemtrails, more specifically the Continental 777 dumping fuel after experiencing a partial hydraulic failure after takeoff. They even spell "geoengineering" wrong in the last sentence.

767 dumping fuel.jpg

Here is the original video off of Youtube, along with the ATC audio link. First of all it is over Newark NJ, not over London; an experienced eye can see in the video that the inner gear doors have been lowered, since the flight crew has extended the landing gear manually. If the gear had been lowered with the gear handle, the inner doors would have opened, then closed after the gear was down and locked.



The long lines in the sky are nothing but water vapor, freezing as it contacts the cold air of the stratosphere and freezing into ice crystals. If the air is already saturated, the ice crystals cannot sublimate, and the contrail will persist. There are countless examples on this website along with plenty of evidence regarding persistent contrails that has been documented over the last few decades.

Aerodynamic contrails can form from the low pressure area formed on top of the wing as it produces lift. Also, as a wing generates lift, it causes a vortex to form at each wingtip, and sometimes also at the tip of each wing flap. The reduction in pressure and temperature across each vortex can cause water to condense and make the cores of the wingtip vortices visible. This effect is more common on humid days. Here is a picture of an aerodynamic contrail and wing vortices visible simultaneously.


wingtip_vortices.jpg

Here is a picture of my KC-10 with an aerodynamic contrail forming from the leading edge of the wing in warm moist air

DSC_0170.JPG


The point is, all these videos and pictures of so called "chemtrail planes" are simply videos of normal contrails, fuel dumping and even skywriting. The chemtrail community has been well known to use pictures of the barrels of water installed on test airliners, used to simulate center of gravity changes caused by the movement of passengers/shifting of cargo during flight, as their "evidence" of a spraying operation.

A380 BARRELS.jpg
In addition, they have yet been able to refute the fact that contrails can persist in the right meteorological conditions. If "chemtrails" are so obvious, why must the chemtrail community resort to these misleading pictures and videos to prove it?
 
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MikeC

Closed Account
Part of me is curious what has been deleted.....but most of me is pretty sure about what it is and a bit saddened by that o_O
 
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