House Oversight Hearing on UAPs - July 26, 2023

jarlrmai said:
The main problem is that they all seem to think whatever "It" is It is extraordinary and It is an It as in one thing, with a capital I.

Aliens
Angels
Super Chinese tech
etc

But in reality there's just a whole load of different mundane things being mistakenly thought to be extraordinary and conflated into one thing.
Click to expand...
thats a language / wording issue really that led to this narrative and i one hundred percent agree. it is bugging me for a very long time when "they" talk about "the phenomenon" (they show no sign of propulsion, descend from 80k feet into the water, blabla)
 
jarlrmai said:
The main problem is that they all seem to think whatever "It" is It is extraordinary and It is an It as in one thing, with a capital I.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what Sean Kirkpatrick said in his ABC interview last month.

Article:
Devin Dwyer: What's the most common misconception people have of UAPs or of the work you're doing?
Sean Kirkpatrick: That they're all the same thing and that they're all extraterrestrial, and neither of those are true.
 
MonkeeSage said:
That's exactly what Sean Kirkpatrick said in his ABC interview last month.

Article:
Devin Dwyer: What's the most common misconception people have of UAPs or of the work you're doing?
Sean Kirkpatrick: That they're all the same thing and that they're all extraterrestrial, and neither of those are true.
Click to expand...
now i understand why all of r/ufos is calling him incompetent and demand that hes being fired lol
 
FatPhil said:
He and his wife, Angie, are active members of the Destiny Church in Republic, MO.
Content from External Source
-- https://www.ericburlisonforcongress.com/about

The church's website is at https://destinychurch.me/ - I didn't see anything particularly quote-worthy to bring back here from it - it's a church, it seems to do churchy stuff in a churchy way. I'm apparently gonna be sent to HELL where I will be eternally tormented with the devil and the fallen angels, but you guys all knew that anyway.
Click to expand...
Denominations within the grouping share a spirituality characterized by a worldview where miracles, signs and wonders, and other supernatural occurrences are expected to be present in the lives of believers. This includes the presence of spiritual gifts, such as prophecy and healing. While similar in many respects, some sub-groups do differ in important ways. These differences have led to Charismatic Christianity being categorized into three main groups: Pentecostalism, the Charismatic Movement, and Neo-charismatic Movement.
Content from External Source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_Christianity

I'm not sure that prophesies, supernatural occurrences, and faith healing go with my idea of a skeptic, but the Wikipedia article continues to tell me that if he doesn't belong to the Pentecostalism branch, he doesn't actually have to "speak in tongues".

Looking forward to meeting you in hell! ;)
 
Mendel said:
Article:
That’s what U.S. Rep. Eric Burlison, R-Missouri, said he believes after taking part in a recent congressional hearing [.. :]

“I find I have a hard time buying the idea that an alien species is technologically capable to reach nearly the speed of light, travel trillions of miles or more, and gets here and somehow incapable of navigating Earth’s atmosphere,” he said.

“In my opinion I think it’s either angels or it’s manmade,” he said. “I think the most likely explanation is that it’s manmade.”

Good thing that Burlison is a skeptic, generally speaking.

Source: https://twitter.com/RepEricBurlison/status/1682027535696289798
Click to expand...

And this guy asked some of the best questions, Rep. Burlison even though he has wacky personal beliefs and still holds that the gumbint is not being transparent in reference to UAP. He's a card carrying Republican from MO so he's a church member for sure.
 
Via reddit I got the NICAP ufo report, that was made in May 1964, with the link to the pdf here.
At the end they include some interesting quotes, for instance the one below here. Nothing has changed in 60 years, same narrative.
Screenshot 2023-08-22 at 10.44.18.png
 
Mendel said:
How did you identify that Destiny Church as charismatic?
I don't see them describe themselves as such, although other churches do.
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Sorry, I didn't explain the chain of info well enough. I got that description, a "charismatic megachurch", from Burlison's own wikipedia page. It also cautions that his page reads like a résumé and welcomes revisions to make it neutral, which I take to mean "We think he wrote this himself in flattering terms". If so, his church affiliation is one of the things he's proud of.
 
Ann K said:
Sorry, I didn't explain the chain of info well enough. I got that description, a "charismatic megachurch", from Burlison's own wikipedia page. It also cautions that his page reads like a résumé and welcomes revisions to make it neutral, which I take to mean "We think he wrote this himself in flattering terms". If so, his church affiliation is one of the things he's proud of.
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Too much speculation, investigation reveals the truth.

From Ozarks Insurance Day:
Article:
He attends Destiny Church in Republic Missouri and is active in supporting campus ministries such as The Potter’s House and Campus Crusade for Christ. Rep. Burlison was actively involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters of the Ozarks and was named the Big Brother of the Year in 2005. He currently serves on the board of D.R.E.A.M and the Harmony House for battered and abused women.

Compare wikipedia (emphasis mine):
Article:
He attends Destiny Church, a charismatic megachurch in Republic, Missouri, and is active in supporting campus ministries such as The Potter's House and Campus Crusade for Christ. Burlison is involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters of the Ozarks and was named the Big Brother of the Year in 2005. He serves on the board of D.R.E.A.M and the Harmony House for battered and abused women.
We learn:
• Burlison did not write his own wikipedia page here (though he may have submitted his own bio to Ozarks Insurance Day, which is legitimate).
• Someone added the "charismatic megachurch" bit.

More on that:

Edit listed in the page history:
Article:
SmartSelect_20230822-142150_Samsung Internet.jpg

Scope of the edit:
Article:
SmartSelect_20230822-142254_Samsung Internet.jpg
Wikipedia User HangingCurve has almost 100,000 edits, so I feel fairly confident they're not Burlison.

And we know the edit that added "charismatic megachurch" was very recent.
None of the references supports it.
 
Mendel said:
Too much speculation, investigation reveals the truth.

From Ozarks Insurance Day:
Article:
He attends Destiny Church in Republic Missouri and is active in supporting campus ministries such as The Potter’s House and Campus Crusade for Christ. Rep. Burlison was actively involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters of the Ozarks and was named the Big Brother of the Year in 2005. He currently serves on the board of D.R.E.A.M and the Harmony House for battered and abused women.

Compare wikipedia (emphasis mine):
Article:
He attends Destiny Church, a charismatic megachurch in Republic, Missouri, and is active in supporting campus ministries such as The Potter's House and Campus Crusade for Christ. Burlison is involved with Big Brothers Big Sisters of the Ozarks and was named the Big Brother of the Year in 2005. He serves on the board of D.R.E.A.M and the Harmony House for battered and abused women.
We learn:
• Burlison did not write his own wikipedia page here (though he may have submitted his own bio to Ozarks Insurance Day, which is legitimate).
• Someone added the "charismatic megachurch" bit.

More on that:
Article:
SmartSelect_20230822-142150_Samsung Internet.jpg

Article:
SmartSelect_20230822-142254_Samsung Internet.jpg
Wikipedia User HangingCurve has almost 100,000 edits, so I feel fairly confident they're not Burlison.

And we know the edit that added "charismatic megachurch" was very recent.
None of the references supports it.
Click to expand...
maybe a paid service
 
because he ordered it? why would a total random editor edit it like that.

not saying thats what happened, but we cant tell either way really, thats my point
 
Domzh said:
because he ordered it? why would a total random editor edit it like that.

not saying thats what happened, but we cant tell either way really, thats my point
Click to expand...
Yes. So if you can't tell, why speculate?

Maybe the editor looked up Burlison, got curious about his church, and called up destinychurch.com :
Article:
PENTECOSTAL/CHARISMATIC

We believe in the baptism and gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Their main location seems to be a TV stage, so that church could be called a charismatic megachurch. But it's in Oklahoma, not Missouri—not Burlison's church.
 
Mendel said:
And we know the edit that added "charismatic megachurch" was very recent.
None of the references supports it.
Click to expand...
Doesn't look particularly "mega":

They have a youtube chan; nothing was back-facing in what I downloaded, so I can't be sure, but it didn't look like they were too capacious.
They also seemed fairly down-to-earth and modern, from what I saw, so not really deserving of the "charismatic" label either.
If I cared about the quality of wikipedia any more, I'd certainly feel tempted to add a [citation eneeded] to that phrase.
 
Domzh said:
why would a total random editor edit it like that.
Click to expand...
for the same reason it was brought up in this thread. (and why his 'parody' was brought up in this thread)

It's the same reason spiteful Republicans bring up Obama's Church and it's praise of Farrakan. It's to disparage the man.
 
FatPhil said:
Doesn't look particularly "mega":
Click to expand...
From YouTube ("Destiny Church Republic") I see at least six different pastors speaking from a stage with video screens, stage lighting, and backup singers and musicians. They record their sermons to replay on line. There are two different campuses, but I can't find their attendance stats.
IMG_0258.jpeg
 
Domzh said:
im lost, what was the reason why we are even investigating his church?
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It was an offshoot of Rep. Burlison's comment about UFOs being "angels", and a rebuttal of his own words "Generally, I'm a skeptic". But you're right, it's a digression. Mea culpa.
 
Corbell on Joe Rogan says "I literally had to put the lawyer behind him" (2:26) which betrays the fact that he (a diehard ufologist journalist as well as a 'usual suspect') has played an active role orchestrating the Grusch hearing and exerts quite a bit of influence. This goes to show Grusch certainly isn't acting solo or independently outside the ufologist lobby group. He also said 'by the way Grusch's testimony wasn't scripted' although as a UFO skeptic I at least never suspected it was. Why does he need to highlight it?


Source: https://youtu.be/lPRTYOJeIxE?si=Znp2wrCBTX3p_kZA
 
LilWabbit said:
Grusch's testimony wasn't scripted
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Perhaps some word play around the definition of scripted but I saw Rep Tim Burchett interviewed recently where he bragged that he didn't ask any questions of the 3 witnesses for which he didn't already know the answer they would give. Perhaps not scripted but definitely rehearsed and planned. Burchett also said at the hearing that they had met the night before.

Also of interest was the claim by Knapp at 5:30 that Jay Stratton was the person who gave Grusch the job of finding the secret program that had the crashed UFOs.

Corbell and Knapp claim they first met Grusch at the 2022 SCU Huntsville conference. There are photos with Corbell, Knapp, Grusch and Stratton from this event. So Stratton was also at the place where Grusch first met the UFO journalists.

Jay Stratton set Grusch off on a mission to find a secret UFO recovery program and appears to be have been involved in connecting Grusch with the journalists who helped him take the story public. Feels entirely plausible that Grusch is a patsy type who was groomed by Stratton into believing all the UFO mythology ultimately ending with Grusch raising the initial "DOD is hiding crashed UFOs from congress" DOD IG complaint in 2021. When that didn't get the results Stratton wanted, he helped Grusch find some journalists to take the claims to the public.
 
knobby said:
Perhaps some word play around the definition of scripted but I saw Rep Tim Burchett interviewed recently where he bragged that he didn't ask any questions of the 3 witnesses for which he didn't already know the answer they would give. Perhaps not scripted but definitely rehearsed and planned. Burchett also said at the hearing that they had met the night before.

Also of interest was the claim by Knapp at 5:30 that Jay Stratton was the person who gave Grusch the job of finding the secret program that had the crashed UFOs.

Corbell and Knapp claim they first met Grusch at the 2022 SCU Huntsville conference. There are photos with Corbell, Knapp, Grusch and Stratton from this event. So Stratton was also at the place where Grusch first met the UFO journalists.

Jay Stratton set Grusch off on a mission to find a secret UFO recovery program and appears to be have been involved in connecting Grusch with the journalists who helped him take the story public. Feels entirely plausible that Grusch is a patsy type who was groomed by Stratton into believing all the UFO mythology ultimately ending with Grusch raising the initial "DOD is hiding crashed UFOs from congress" DOD IG complaint in 2021. When that didn't get the results Stratton wanted, he helped Grusch find some journalists to take the claims to the public.
Click to expand...

Screenshot_20230903-090850_YouTube.jpg
Certainly the opening statement from all three witnesses was read from prepared scripts. As for the Q&A session with the committee after those statements, I agree testimony given by the three witnesses was "rehearsed and planned."

Do you have a source which states "Jay Stratton set Grusch off on a mission to find a secret UFO recovery program...."?
To my knowledge Grusch claimed his tasking was to identify all DoD UFO programs, not to find a specific program. He repeated this in the hearing.

In two thousand nineteen, the UAP task force director asked me to identify all special access programs and controlled access programs, also known as Sapps and Capps.
Content from External Source
https://picdataset.com/ai-news/full...-hearing-on-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena/
 
Someone message me when ANYTHING is revealed from this Congressional hearing to support the "evidence" of aliens having visited this planet. Thanks.
 
Duke said:
Do you have a source which states "Jay Stratton set Grusch off on a mission to find a secret UFO recovery program...."?
Click to expand...
It's at 5:40 in the JRE clip posted above my comment. Exact quote from George Knapp:

"Jay Stratton gave him a job - go find the special access programs that are hiding UFO stuff, either siphoning millions of dollars or they've got technology, crash retrievals, reverse engineering, all the stuff we've heard rumors about."
Content from External Source
 
Duke said:
Screenshot_20230903-090850_YouTube.jpg
Certainly the opening statement from all three witnesses was read from prepared scripts. As for the Q&A session with the committee after those statements, I agree testimony given by the three witnesses was "rehearsed and planned."

Do you have a source which states "Jay Stratton set Grusch off on a mission to find a secret UFO recovery program...."?
To my knowledge Grusch claimed his tasking was to identify all DoD UFO programs, not to find a specific program. He repeated this in the hearing.

In two thousand nineteen, the UAP task force director asked me to identify all special access programs and controlled access programs, also known as Sapps and Capps.
Content from External Source
https://picdataset.com/ai-news/full...-hearing-on-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena/
Click to expand...

I am only seeing the bits and pieces of this whole business I see here and on the internet, so there may be explanations I have missed.

But if his boss wants to know about SAP and CAP programs on some issue his boss needs to work UP his own chain of command, not ask someone under him to "go fishing". Which is what it seems was happening here. Draft a Memorandum asking for information about programs dealing with specific topics, then send it to his boss and on up the chain. People at very senior levels would be the ones to pass the request to other agencies. You don't get to demand such information, you ask those who are in control of those programs if they are willing to pass information back. They in turn would want to know the authority by which you are asking for this information. At this point the lawyers and security offices get involved. That is if you are doing it by the book.

It is starting to seem that Grusch is a patsy in all this. A new name because people have stopped responding to communications from the usual names?
 
knobby said:
It's at 5:40 in the JRE clip posted above my comment. Exact quote from George Knapp:

"Jay Stratton gave him a job - go find the special access programs that are hiding UFO stuff, either siphoning millions of dollars or they've got technology, crash retrievals, reverse engineering, all the stuff we've heard rumors about."
Content from External Source
Click to expand...
Sorry, I was asking for a source where Grusch said he was directed specially to find a secret recovery program(s). What Knapp claims is of no significance. Had Grusch started that publicly somewhere, however, be it under oath or not, it would change the narrative.
 
MapperGuy said:
I am only seeing the bits and pieces of this whole business I see here and on the internet, so there may be explanations I have missed.

But if his boss wants to know about SAP and CAP programs on some issue his boss needs to work UP his own chain of command, not ask someone under him to "go fishing". Which is what it seems was happening here. Draft a Memorandum asking for information about programs dealing with specific topics, then send it to his boss and on up the chain. People at very senior levels would be the ones to pass the request to other agencies. You don't get to demand such information, you ask those who are in control of those programs if they are willing to pass information back. They in turn would want to know the authority by which you are asking for this information. At this point the lawyers and security offices get involved. That is if you are doing it by the book.

It is starting to seem that Grusch is a patsy in all this. A new name because people have stopped responding to communications from the usual names?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I made a similar point back several weeks ago when I explained his boss could tell him to find/identify classified programs, but had no authority to grant him access to those programs. So when Grusch was only defensively in briefed on those programs, he took offense and filed his IG complaint.
 
MapperGuy said:
But if his boss wants to know about SAP and CAP programs on some issue his boss needs to work UP his own chain of command, not ask someone under him to "go fishing".
Click to expand...
To me, there's a nonzero chance that this is a foreign intelligence operation.
 
Something interesting I haven't seen brought up much in relation to the efforts where government interaction takes place, especially the congressional hearings, is the former/possibly current influence campaign Elizondo & co are participating in. Whether or not you could consider it malignant is debatable, but they most definitely at one point were running an influence campaign targeting the government, leveraging the public.

F2FcOiSWcAA7KVa.png

Source: https://twitter.com/jaystratton/status/1684729145626898432/photo/1

Here, the duo for the first time, identify that they had a plan, untold to the public, for Elizondo to resign and speak to the public to create awareness. Stratton used his position and influence within the Department of Defense to leverage Elizondo's feigned personal effort, to internally lobby for the new UAP Office, which he became director of.
Meanwhile, we have Mellon, part of this plan, acting as the person lobbying to Congress and other facets of the government. Mellon has mentioned this before, while, it does have legitimate basis, he reasons that he left out critical information to Congress to actually get the hearings, achieving this through for example, leaving out the background and beliefs of key figures involved.

Screenshot (2101).png
https://www.military.com/daily-news...ranormal-birthed-pentagons-new-hunt-ufos.html

Making a larger write up on this but it's gonna take a bit. May split it into two, one covering 2017-2019, then another covering the bout the past few months (2023-?). Believe it's two distinct efforts across those periods from the same group, but not 100% sure. There was the little blank period in 20-22 where they all went back into contracting while UAPTF existed & came back out once it got shut down and cleared out, so it's possible their current efforts are distinct from the first.
 
MapperGuy said:
But if his boss wants to know about SAP and CAP programs on some issue his boss needs to work UP his own chain of command, not ask someone under him to "go fishing".
Click to expand...
Jay Stratton's "boss" would've been the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security, right?
kinda hard to imagine there were SAPs and CAPs unknown to that office
 
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